REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

"For all you kids watching at home, Santa just IS white"

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Saturday, December 21, 2013 22:55
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Sunday, December 15, 2013 1:48 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


It's to laugh. Stewart had fun with Megyn Kelly's latest idiotic statements::

Megyn Kelly: "For all you kids watching at home, Santa just IS white...Santa is what he is, and just so you know, we’re just debating this because someone wrote about it.”

Stewart: "Who are you actually talking to? Children who are sophisticated enough to be watching a news channel at 10:00 at night, yet innocent enough to still believe Santa Claus is real, yet racist enough to be freaked out if he isn't white?"



We've all heard about it, it's part and parcel of FauxNews' annual Faux War On Christmas, and it got Kelly quite a national backlash...to the point where she's now come back to claim it was all a "joke" and it's only "humorless race baiters" who didn't get the "joke". You have only to watch her initial blather to recognize she wasn't joking, she was just stating what, to her, is indisputable fact. But gawd forbid she be honest about it, much more profitable to pretend it was a joke and blame others for not "getting it". She claimed "so many couldn’t get past the fact that I acknowledged, as Harris did, that the most commonly depicted image of Santa, does, in fact, have white skin". That's not what she said, even slightly.

She also said: "Jesus was a white man, too. It’s like we have, he’s a historical figure that’s a verifiable fact, as is Santa, I just want kids to know that."

Uhhh, 'fraid not. Jesus was a Jew, and many, many scholars have proven that he didn't look anything like the Arian figure we're familiar with. Even poor Megyn admitted as much: "By the way, I also did say that Jesus was white. As I've learned in the past two days, that is far from settled."

Personally, I think the penguin thing IS silly. And many families portray Santa in different ways, which is how it should be; he is, after all, a non-existent caricature. That Kelly is blithely incapable of conceiving of the idea that he should be portrayed in any way other than lily white, or that Jesus might not look like her pictures of him, is what's illustrative of her own ignorance (and her mentality). That it caused such an uproar is indicative of how many people realized the idiocy of her remarks. That she's incapable of being honest about it and turns it instead into an indictment of OTHERS as unable to see a "joke" that wasn't there is a predictable FauxNews reaction.

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Sunday, December 15, 2013 1:56 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


For somebody who grew up with nothing but white kids, especially as privileged as I apparently was at this late a stage with no money to my family name, that might feel foreign to you....

I never even saw a black person outside of TV until I was 8 years old. I never went to school with a black person until I was a Freshman in High School.


Just ask the local cops around me today though. Don't matter what color we are. We're all niggas now.....



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Sunday, December 15, 2013 2:03 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Can we at least all agree that there are no sub Saharan AFRICAN reindeer pulling Santa's sleigh?

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Sunday, December 15, 2013 2:07 PM

JONGSSTRAW


Just another absurd bullshit attack against Fox News. And the intellectually dishonest, any lie for a laugh Jon Stewart should know that Megyn's show is on at 9 pm not 10 pm, and it airs live at 6 pm on the west coast, so yeah kids could be watching. The whole segment was a spoof on an article written by a black woman in Slate. Megyn was agreeing with what she wrote. Friday night Megyn addressed the issue, and in her typical delightful way told all you "upset" leftist loons to fuck off.

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Sunday, December 15, 2013 2:14 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

Can we at least all agree that there are no sub Saharan AFRICAN reindeer pulling Santa's sleigh?

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall



All this dumb rube can say for sure is that Santa wasn't using any red-nosed alligators or crocodiles.

That shit's too cold for their awesomeness!


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Sunday, December 15, 2013 2:16 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK





I do find it funny when an Atheist tries to tell believers what color Jesus was.

Thank you Niki. Funniest thing I heard all day.


Go tell Mr./Mrs. Pansexual/Multi-Cultural Spaghetti Monster that it was a very funny joke.

Meanwhile.......

The adults are going to talk....


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Sunday, December 15, 2013 3:03 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



At the end of the day, which is more absurd...

Fussing over the ethnicity of a FICTIONAL character, who is based on religious person from Western Turkey

OR

The " OPPRESSION " certain folks allegedly feel because said fictional character doesn't reflect the same amount of sunlight off their skin as they do ?


Can we just call this a toss up,and be done w/ it ?

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Sunday, December 15, 2013 4:31 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


At the end of the day Santa/Father Christmas/St. Nicholas is from European tradition; I've no problem people saying he should be white. If there was a character from African tradition that the Western world had taken to heart, I think (some) black people would get pretty upset if people started making him white.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Sunday, December 15, 2013 4:58 PM

JONGSSTRAW


The real Kunta Kinte was white. When Levar Burton portrayed him in Roots he was ... what do they call it? .... committing racial appropriation. Like Johnny Depp playing Tonto ..... just disgusting racial insensitivity.

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Sunday, December 15, 2013 4:59 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by kpo:
At the end of the day Santa/Father Christmas/St. Nicholas is from European tradition; I've no problem people saying he should be white. If there was a character from African tradition that the Western world had taken to heart, I think (some) black people would get pretty upset if people started making him white.

It's not personal. It's just war.



Exactly !

Like *Elvis stealing songs from black artists, which they did bring up.

It's why I reject the whole 'Kwanza' nonsense as well. It's totally with out substance, and has no legitimate origin. Some guy here in the US got tired of all the WHITENESS of Christmas, and simply WANTED to be able to let blacks have a holiday they could relate to, and so Kwanza was invented.



*Well, maybe not so much Elvis himself, but record labels having him sing those songs, and making boat loads of $ off of the sales, while shutting out the original artists.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Sunday, December 15, 2013 5:46 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Uhh, KPO, just FYI, regarding Santa Claus' origins, aka St. Nicholas:
Quote:

Saint Nicholas (Greek: ????? ?????a??, Hagios Nikólaos, Latin: Sanctus Nicolaus); (15 March 270 – 6 December 343),[3][4] also called Nikolaos of Myra, was a historic 4th-century Christian saint and Greek[5] Bishop of Myra (Demre, part of modern-day Turkey) in Lycia. Wikipeia


Whether he was white, brown or in between isn't something I think anyone knows for certain, all we know is where he came from. Given the part of the world he came from, he could as easily be white as not.

The point is that it's absurd to claim he is any one thing to everyone, as "Santa Claus" is envisioned differently by different cultures. That's the whole point. I wasn't aware anyone felt "oppressed" by Santa Claus being depicted one way or another, but to me it makes sense for an imaginary character important only to children to be depicted however is best for the children, since virtually any depiction of the character nowadays bears no resemblance to St. Nicholas, from whom he is drawn.

Until a few years ago we had a local place, "Patio World", which in Winter would put away all the patio furniture they sold and decorate the indoors with Xmas trees--the owners traveled the world for ornaments and you picked the ornaments off the trees to buy (something that has long since become really popular, but back in the '70s, they were among the first).

One section was set aside for life-sized Santas from around the world, dressed in the costume of their culture. They were all very different from one another and I spent a lot of time looking at them, they were so well done...I wish it still existed. Some were white, some were brown, and there was even a black Santa. To me, that someone is so ignorant that they think there is only the one, that the rolly-polly American Santa "just IS" the only one that could ever be, is offensive, simple as that.

The original St. Nicholas:


Quote:

Santa is loosely based on Saint Nicholas, a fourth-century Greek bishop known for secret gift-giving. But while the names “St. Nicholas” and “Santa Claus” are often used interchangeably, modern-day Santa hardly resembles his supposed inspiration, who was depicted as tall and thin and, you know, Greek. Santa as we know him today is the result of wild imaginations and creative input from many people across centuries, including Washington Irving and Clement Clark Moore. He’s utterly divorced from his religious and historical roots.

As part of the long process of formalizing a celebration of the birth of Christ–-which includes shifting the purported date of Jesus’ arrival in the world to midwinter to coopt pagan observances and then suppressing said observances–-Saint Nicholas gets mashed up with other figures. These include Sinterklass, who may be a variation of the Norse god Odin, and who’s part of holiday observances in places as varied as the Netherlands and Greece. Father Christmas, the British character, has analogues in South America, most European countries, and the Caucuses. And this isn’t even including characters like Zwarte Piet*, who’s part of Christmas folklore in Netherlands, Luxembourg and Belgium, who is, wait for it, of African origin.

In the United States, many people and organizations have contributed to our modern conception of Santa Claus’ physical appearance, including the the political cartoonist and muckracker Thomas Nast, the White Rock Beverage company which used him to sell mineral water, and Haddon Sundblom, who drew Santa Claus for Coca-Cola’s famous 1930s advertising campaign.

Relying on the historical argument to prove or disprove whether Santa is white is essentially insane. Because, and I’m going to go out on a limb here, but I will argue that once you give the guy a workshop of magical elves, eight tiny flying reindeer, and the ability to distend his corpulent body down a billion chimneys in a night, historical verisimilitude no longer obtains. Santa–avert your eyes, kids–is a fictional character, and as such, can plausibly be represented and colored any damn way you want him. To say that he “is just white” because that’s the way fictional pictures of him have mostly appeared nowadays is to say that your pictures and traditions are solely legitimate, authentic, the cultural default.

Santa Claus is frequently depicted as a white guy today precisely because of what Kelly said we absolutely must not do: “revise it in the middle of the legacy of the story.” http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2013/12/13/dreaming-of-a-white-santa/]


That is exactly the point; Santa was revised repeatedly over cultures and over time to become more "comfortable" to each culture; what we have now is definitely NOT a "historical figure".

Some Santa Clauses from around the world:

Russia:


India:


Japan:


China:


Italy:


Mexico:


Korea:


*Netherlands Zwarte Piet:



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Monday, December 16, 2013 5:02 AM

AGENTROUKA


Gotta agree with Niki here.

Santa's origins are a muddle, in that he has a historical basis, a mythological basis and was still most entirely invented in the late 19th century in his current shape, if not later. And not necessarily in Europe, either. Because a lot of European cultures? Don't do Christmas the American way, still separate St. Nicholas from Santa, etc. Santa, reindeers, sleigh, etc., is an awesome American contribution. (Thumbs up!)

He's first and foremost a cultural icon, almost utterly divorced from his religious connotations because tons of atheists celebrate Christmas with Santa as a family holiday, and you'd be hard-pressed to find more justification for him in connection to the baby Jesus than with pagan tradition. Santa as he stands is an utter modern fiction, belonging to everybody. "Facts" have nothing to do with it.

That means he's utterly perfect for being shaped to fit the culture he is used in.

No harm in people wanting him to be a range of colors (or penguin shapes...) if that actually makes him more representative of the culture he's in, more inclusive of the children he is aimed at and more universal like the spirit of generosity he is supposed to embody.

What's more concerning is just how important it is to some people that Santa be white. What is threatening about that?

As for Jesus, as an atheist I do proudly declare my right to assert that the historical figure of Jesus was potentially a range of hues, but most most most probably NOT white. Again, you have to wonder why people find it important to argue about this, as if him being a Middle Eastern Jewish man is somehow taking anything away from them. There is a rich and beautiful history of cultures depicting Jesus as any rainbow color long before color-based racism was invented (this being the oh-so-backward middle ages) and it wouldn't matter at all if skin color hadn't morphed into a measure of human value. Now you have people trying to make literal claims that Jesus was white because it is SOMEHOW important to them that this unlikely "fact" be recognized.



As for Megyn Kelly... I can't see this as anything but an incredibly lame publicity stunt, because if you're joking? You don't lean into the tv and tell other people's children "the truth" about Santa or Jesus. NOT funny. The "you all just can't take a joke" excuse is pretty sad.

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Monday, December 16, 2013 6:09 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


I think the Russian Santa looks pretty bad ass.



Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Monday, December 16, 2013 7:57 AM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
I think the Russian Santa looks pretty bad ass.



I agree. Russian pointy Santa hat FTW!

*---------------------------------------*
The French Revolution would have never happened if Marie Antoinette had just given every peasant an iPhone.

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Monday, December 16, 2013 8:48 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:



As for Megyn Kelly... I can't see this as anything but an incredibly lame publicity stunt, because if you're joking? You don't lean into the tv and tell other people's children "the truth" about Santa or Jesus. NOT funny. The "you all just can't take a joke" excuse is pretty sad.




Per Jesus , the creepiest version of him is where he's all buff & cut, like he's all 'roided up.
Homosayswhat?
As if the son of God looks like Thor, and pumps iron out @ muscle beach, shirtless and glistening in the sun.


Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Monday, December 16, 2013 9:11 AM

AGENTROUKA


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:



As for Megyn Kelly... I can't see this as anything but an incredibly lame publicity stunt, because if you're joking? You don't lean into the tv and tell other people's children "the truth" about Santa or Jesus. NOT funny. The "you all just can't take a joke" excuse is pretty sad.




Per Jesus , the creepiest version of him is where he's all buff & cut, like he's all 'roided up.
Homosayswhat?
As if the son of God looks like Thor, and pumps iron out @ muscle beach, shirtless and glistening in the sun.




Now sure how that applies to my quote but...

1) ...which version are you referring to? Is there a specific image or tradition of depiction you're referring to?

2) I can only pray I misunderstood here, but Jesus with muscles is homosexual imagery? The grin I get imagining that this is what comes to your mind looking at him suffering on the cross is.. hard to suppress.

3) Jesus was a carpenter. And not necessarily a poor one who couldn't afford proper food. He probably HAD muscles, when you think about it. At least for a time. Depends on how quickly they went away when he started walking around preaching. But if he actually grew up as a carpenter helping Daddy Joseph you'd he would have developed a reasonably muscled physique. Carpentry takes some level of strength.

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Monday, December 16, 2013 9:15 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
I think the Russian Santa looks pretty bad ass.

An Adolf Hitler painting: Mother Mary with the Holy Child Jesus Christ, Oil/canvas (1913) at http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2013/12/14/megyn-kelly-spins-fails/


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, December 16, 2013 9:30 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Thank you so much, Rouka; that was eloquently written and right on point. My post was already so long, and I knew if I wrote "What's more concerning is just how important it is to some people that Santa be white. What is threatening about that?", what response it would bring, but it IS the point of this entire thread.

Maybe it was deliberately intended to cause a furor, but I tend to doubt it. To me it was just another illustration of the narrowness of Megyn Kelly's knowledge and how she thinks, that the rolly-polly figure portrayed in America is the only possible Santa Claus and that she actually believed the cultural icon can only BE one way. That she called him a "historical figure" along with Jesus Christ is equally ignorant, and there was no indication in her statements that she was in any way joking. It only became a "joke" when she had to deal with the furor it stirred up.

The bottom line irony is that OUR culture has created this icon by changing the original myth to make white Americans more "comfortable" with it, doing precisely what Kelly was trying to make the point that you don't need to do (as noted in the Jon Stewart video), and that's what makes the issue worthy of discussion.

(By the way, I, too, especially liked the Russian Santa Claus--it's almost exactly like the one I saw portrayed at Patio World years ago, and I admired him then. He's actually called "Grandfather Frost Santa Claus", and several of the other versions of "Santa Claus" have other names as well.)


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Monday, December 16, 2013 9:39 AM

AGENTROUKA


Is that painting verified to be by Hitler? Not saying it can't be but I thought he was almost infamous for not really painting people.

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Monday, December 16, 2013 9:46 AM

REAVERFAN


What guy would argue? Whatever you say, Megyn.


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Monday, December 16, 2013 10:05 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Now sure how that applies to my quote but...


Really? You see no connection there at all ? Between how some view Jesus & the more likely , accurate image ?
Huh.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Monday, December 16, 2013 11:55 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Rouka, I backtracked it through the link provided to Wikimedia ( http://commons.wikimedia.org /wiki/File:HitlerMaryWithJesus.jpg --had to break that link, it wouldn't show), which linked to a site on "Nazi Artifacts" at http://nobeliefs.com/mementoes.htm whereit is listed as: "Mother Mary with the Holy Child Jesus Christ, Oil/canvas, 1913, by Adolf Hitler" and listed its source as http://globalfire.tv/nj/03en/politics/twoartists.htm

Beyond that, I can't say. Depicting Jesus as not only white, but with distinctly Arian features and, of all things, BLONDE, would be right up Hitler's alley, at any rate.

Aside from that, I did admire the author's remarks in the link originally provided, which I thought were quite on point:
Quote:

I’d say two things. The original segment was clearly not as light-hearted and humorous as Kelly now insists it was. She did not originally refer to the Slate piece as “tongue-in-cheek” and responded to its provocation by being offended, not amused. Since both tapes are out there, make your own mind up. But rather than cop to an obvious error – made off the cuff – she made the decision to hunker down and accuse others of persecuting Fox News because it isn’t liberal. So the classic and silly notion that white Republicans are somehow an oppressed class – and minorities should just stop whining – became her “correction.” But that’s not a correction. It’s a distraction.

More to the point, the much more disturbing assertion that “Jesus was white” – something Kelly injected into the conversation all by herself – is left hanging. She claims in one aside in her response that the question “is not settled.” But it is. Jesus was a first century Jew. He’s not a northern European. He was Semitic, not Caucasian. Now maybe Kelly will unpack why she may believe that Jews are somehow “white” in her racial categorization of humanity, while, say, Hispanics are not. But it seems likely she won’t. That would open a very large box of premises Roger Ailes prefers to keep vacuum-wrapped.

So she screwed up – which we all do. But on the core measure of whether she could fairly cop to her screw-up, correct and apologize for it, she failed. I tend to think that how journalists respond to error is more instructive than how they report and analyze in factually impeccable fashion. On that count, Kelly emerged this week as a flak and a hack.



That about says it.


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Monday, December 16, 2013 12:28 PM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

Can we at least all agree that there are no sub Saharan AFRICAN reindeer pulling Santa's sleigh?

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall



All this dumb rube can say for sure is that Santa wasn't using any red-nosed alligators or crocodiles.

That shit's too cold for their awesomeness!




In Australia he uses six white kangaroos.

For real. Although where he found caucasian kangaroos we'll never know.

Six white boomers, SNOOOOW WHI~ITE BOOMERS
Racing Santa Claus through the blazing SUN!

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Monday, December 16, 2013 12:38 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



All white 'roos... Too funny.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Monday, December 16, 2013 12:45 PM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

Originally posted by AgentRouka:
Is that painting verified to be by Hitler? Not saying it can't be but I thought he was almost infamous for not really painting people.



I heard he was kinda terrible at art so he gave up. I too would wonder at him painting people and the result looking even vaguely like people.

The subject and composition would make sense though. Hitler was very interested in some of the more occultic aspects of Christianity as well as other belief systems and superstitions, to the point where he even tasked some of his forces to try to track down the Arc of the Covenant and Longinus. (Yes, Indiana Jones had some basis in reality) Plus the guy had parent issues out the YIN YANG.

Huh. After about 30 seconds of research, it appears that really was by Hitler.

http://sobadsogood.com/2013/07/22/25-rarely-seen-artworks-painted-by-a
dolf-hitler
/

Apparently not actually that bad an artist - probably the reason why his work didn't sell wasn't his technique but more that the artwork itself wasn't very original or groundbreaking. Just boring landscapes with a couple also boring churchy pictures.

The most interesting one in that series is probably that abstract with the broken down german tanks in a barren orchard. But considering the technique he was trying for, it was also the worst executed.

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Monday, December 16, 2013 12:49 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Huh. After about 30 seconds of research, it appears that really was by Hitler.

http://sobadsogood.com/2013/07/22/25-rarely-seen-artworks-painted-by-a
dolf-hitler
/

For Noël, purchase a hand painted copy of the Adolf Hitler painting: Mother Mary with the Holy Child Jesus Christ at www.fineart-china.com/htmlimg/image-89618.html What would Hitler think if he knew the Chinese were copying his work? Would he sue them?



The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, December 16, 2013 1:01 PM

BYTEMITE


He'd go off on a Hitler rant on youtube. And we'd all laugh.

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Monday, December 16, 2013 1:09 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Hee, hee, hee:



They DO come in white, you know, Byte...


There are albinos, but there are also just plain "white" 'roos...a "genetic strain of the Western Grey kangaroo" ( http://www.pbase.com/jhphoto/animals_bordertownwildlife)

And Byte wasn't kidding, there actually IS such a song:
Quote:

Six
White Boomers

Early on one Christmas Day, a Joey Kanga-roo,
Was far from home and lost in a great big zoo.
Mummy, where's my mummy? They've taken her a-way.
We'll help you find your mummy, son. Hop up on the sleigh.

Up beside the bag of toys little Joey hopped,
But they hadn't gone far when Santa stopped.
Unharnessed all the reindeer and Joey wondered why,
Then he heard a far off booming in the sky.

Six white boomers, snow white boomers,
Racing Santa Claus through the blazing sun.
Six white boomers, snow white boomers,
On his Australian run.

Pretty soon old Santa began to feel the heat,
Took his fur-lined boots off to cool his feet,
Into one popped Joey, feeling quite okay,
While those old man kangaroos kept pulling on the sleigh.

Six white boomers, snow white boomers,
Racing Santa Claus through the blazing sun.
Six white boomers, snow white boomers,
On his Australian run.

Joey said to Santa, Santa, what about the toys?
Aren't you giving some to these girls and boys?
They've got all their presents, son, we were here last night,
This trip is an extra trip, Joey's special flight.

Six white boomers, snow white boomers,
Racing Santa Claus through the blazing sun.
Six white boomers, snow white boomers,
On his Australian run.

Soon the sleigh was flashing past, right over Marble Bar,
Slow down there, cried Santa, it can't be far,
Come up on my lap here, son, and have a look around.
There she is, that's Mummy, bounding up and down.

Six white boomers, snow white boomers,
Racing Santa Claus through the blazing sun.
Six white boomers, snow white boomers,
On his Australian run.

Well that's the bestest Christmas treat that Joey ever had,
Curled up in mother's pouch feeling snug and glad.
The last they saw was Santa heading northwards from the sun,
The only year the boomers worked a double run.

Six white boomers, snow white boomers,
Racing Santa Claus through the blazing sun.
Six white boomers, snow white boomers,
On his Australian run.

https://alldownunder.com/australian-music-songs/six-white-boomers.htm



Cute. ;o)

[/threadjack]


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Monday, December 16, 2013 1:24 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

Six white boomers, snow white boomers,
Racing Santa Claus through the blazing sun.
Six white boomers, snow white boomers,
On his Australian run.


Ahh, it's because the reindeer would suffer in the heat. All very sensible when you think about it.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Monday, December 16, 2013 1:45 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
*Netherlands Zwarte Piet:





The Netherlands' Zwarte Piet (black Peter) is one of Santa's helpers, and is a guy in blackface. I'm not a fan of that particular tradition...

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Monday, December 16, 2013 1:53 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
He'd go off on a Hitler rant on youtube. And we'd all laugh.

Like this?



The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, December 16, 2013 2:00 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Lol, brilliant!

I've never felt so conflicted about Hitler.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Monday, December 16, 2013 2:24 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Yeah, KPO, me neither particularly, and apparently there's a push to get rid of him:
Quote:

The role of Zwarte Pieten has become part of a recurring debate in the Netherlands. Zwarte Piet continues to draw negative attention from international commentators and news organizations.[19][20] but he continues to be popular in the Netherlands. Among others, American essayist David Sedaris has written about the tradition.[21]

Since the 1990s, there have been several attempts to introduce an updated version of Zwarte Piet to the Dutch public, among them replacing traditional black makeup with various other shades of colours.[22] In 2006, the NPS (en: Dutch Programme Foundation) replaced the black Pieten with rainbow-colored Pieten, which had accidentally shifted colour according to the storyline of the televised Sinterklaas arrival serial of that year.[23]

Within the Netherlands and abroad there is an ongoing debate over how best to update the tradition and remove Zwarte Piet's stereotypical characteristics. The largest Sinterklaas celebration in Western Canada, slated for 3 December 2011, in New Westminster, British Columbia, was cancelled for the first time since its inception in 1985 following a debate over the inclusion of the character. Rather than remove Zwarte Piet, the organizers cancelled the festivities entirely because, as spokesperson Tako Slump of the organization said:[24]

"We got a lot of replies back from our customers in the Dutch community. It became pretty clear to us that we love Sinterklaas and we can't have it without Black Peter. Those two go together."

In 2011, legislators in the former Dutch colony of Suriname stated that government-sanctioned celebrations involving Zwarte Piet were considered an insult to the "black part of Suriname's community."[25] Efforts later began in Suriname to prevent future governmental promotions of the character. Elsewhere, four people wearing t-shirts with the words "Zwarte Piet is Racisme" were arrested during the second weekend of November 2011 at a Sinterklaas festival in Dordrecht.[26]

Also in 2013, the mayor of Amsterdam suggested that the stereotypical frizzy hair and thick, red lips could be easily changed.[31] As a result of the ongoing controversy, the 600 actors who played Zwarte Piet in the city's annual Sinterklaas celebration on November 17 did not wear the character's traditional golden earrings.[32] The organizing committee suggested the character's depiction could be altered further in 2014.[33]

On the weekend of Amsterdam's Sinterklaas celebration in November 2013, several hundred people protested against the character at demonstrations throughout the city.[34] In the weeks that followed, several smaller public[35] and private[36] celebrations opted to feature alternative "colored", "rainbow" or "soot swiped" Pieten, already a common sight in Sinterklaas celebrations in North America. But the Dutch public broadcaster Nederlandse Omroep Stichting concluded the trend had not gained mainstream adoption.[37] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zwarte_Piet]


I didn't realize he was a HELPER of Santa Claus, I had googled "Santa Claus around the world" and he came up. Obviously it should have been:

Netherlands/Belgium:


Sinterklaas and Zwarte Piet


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Monday, December 16, 2013 2:29 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Oh, Second, that was hysterical, thank you so much! I'm still giggling...


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Monday, December 16, 2013 3:10 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Second - Seen a lot of versions of that Hitler video, but I don't recall that one. Nice find!

Thanks.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Monday, December 16, 2013 7:37 PM

BIGDAMNNOBODY


Quote:

Originally posted by reaverfan:
What guy would argue? Whatever you say, Megyn.




While some would say Megyn is an attractive lady, I believe your pic is of model Brooklyn Decker.

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Monday, December 16, 2013 7:41 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by BIGDAMNNOBODY:
Quote:

Originally posted by reaverfan:
What guy would argue? Whatever you say, Megyn.




While some would say Megyn is an attractive lady, I believe your pic is of model Brooklyn Decker.



Not that anyone is complaining, mind you.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Monday, December 16, 2013 9:06 PM

ELVISCHRIST

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Monday, December 16, 2013 9:17 PM

FREMDFIRMA



Heh, I like North (RoTG Claus), he's pretty awesome.



-F

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Monday, December 16, 2013 9:55 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

That means he's utterly perfect for being shaped to fit the culture he is used in.

No harm in people wanting him to be a range of colors (or penguin shapes...) if that actually makes him more representative of the culture he's in, more inclusive of the children he is aimed at and more universal like the spirit of generosity he is supposed to embody.



I can understand this importing and personalising in countries where Santa has not been part of the tradition for centuries. But where he has, and where his image is well established... For one thing won't it confuse kids, if they alternately see white, black, and Asian Santas?

Edit: Frem is that a good movie? I've heard good things...

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Monday, December 16, 2013 10:00 PM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by kpo:
For one thing won't it confuse kids, if they alternately see white, black, and Asian Santas?



And this is bad... how?

*---------------------------------------*
The French Revolution would have never happened if Marie Antoinette had just given every peasant an iPhone.

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Monday, December 16, 2013 10:25 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Kids like to believe (at least parents think they do) that he is a real person. Hard to maintain that when fundamental parts of his appearance, like skin colour, change.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Monday, December 16, 2013 10:39 PM

BYTEMITE


For ethnic minority kids, they seem to like it when they can relate. I'm sure that if parents tried to pass off one particular person as THE Santa Claus, there might be problems, but in recent years there's been a trend to tell kids that the Santas scattered everywhere are Santa's HELPERS, as opposed to actually him. As such, they'd be inclined to believe whatever their parents tell them he is, on the basis that he is so rarely seen by anyone that no one can really contradict that.

Which is assuming most kids bother to differentiate between all the random santas before the age seven or eight, which I see ample evidence that they don't really. It's like Superman and Clark Kent, everyone only ever sees the costume or the glasses. Plus, psychologically, younger children have a harder time recognizing specific facial differences in strangers. Put the two together, and every five minutes a young enough kid will shout "Santa!" as you're tugging them around downtown even if they all look drastically different.

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Monday, December 16, 2013 11:02 PM

MAL4PREZ


Exactly as Byte said. Raising kids to believe there is only one Santa who looks just like them is no different than making them believe in just one god who is in their image. Because - and this is part of the package that gets sold to kids and makes turn into grown up assholes - if all these fantasy characters look like their race, that race must be singled out. Superior in some way.

It makes them close-minded. It leans them toward that idea that they are more important than others who look different.

I think it nothing but healthy to make kids consider that much of the world, including those like Santa and the tooth fairy and jesus, etc, might look different from them. So maybe this means the grown ups need to do some work in expanding the fantasy.

Damned right it's time we finally did! I guarantee - the kids have no problem with a more inclusive fantasy. It's the close-minded old farts like us who get all up in arms about it.


*---------------------------------------*
The French Revolution would have never happened if Marie Antoinette had just given every peasant an iPhone.

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Monday, December 16, 2013 11:24 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


I get your point Mal4 (and Byte).

I've no problem with God being non-white, in fact if anything I think he should be black! That's humankind's original colour, and we were made in his image and all.

Quote:

I guarantee - the kids have no problem with a more inclusive fantasy.

The fantasy breaks down though, when it's not consistent on something as basic as skin colour.

Quote:

if all these fantasy characters look like their race, that race must be singled out. Superior in some way.

It makes them close-minded. It leans them toward that idea that they are more important than others who look different.


It's interesting, I was debating the whole Zwarte Piet tradition with a Dutch guy. I don't like certain aspects of it, the fact that the guy is a buffoon-ish character, and looks like the typical 19th century black caricature. But he is a well-loved character. And he is black (or historically, has been thought to be so; nowadays parents are saying that his face is black from going down chimneys). And Dutch society has always been thought of as one of the most tolerant in the world. Maybe that's from what you're saying about fantasy characters Mal4.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Monday, December 16, 2013 11:58 PM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by kpo:
The fantasy breaks down though, when it's not consistent on something as basic as skin colour.

If that's the case, the fantasy is flawed and it needs to change.

Can you not imagine ways that it could change? I certainly can.

Quote:

Maybe that's from what you're saying about fantasy characters Mal4.

I've never before seen/heard of this Pied guy, and honestly he looks a bit icky to me. But I don't understand the problem the RWAs are screaming about with "white santa."

It's a *fantasy*. It's imaginary. There are no rules. Choose to make the fantasy we teach our children something that belongs in a healthy society, not the racist self-centered one that Faux News is trying to sell.

*---------------------------------------*
The French Revolution would have never happened if Marie Antoinette had just given every peasant an iPhone.

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Tuesday, December 17, 2013 2:33 AM

AGENTROUKA


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Now sure how that applies to my quote but...


Really? You see no connection there at all ? Between how some view Jesus & the more likely , accurate image ?
Huh.



The quote you used was me saying that Megyn Kelly's "joke" breached a line when she addressed children. So no, the connection between that and Buff Jesus is pretty slim.

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Tuesday, December 17, 2013 2:42 AM

AGENTROUKA


Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Huh. After about 30 seconds of research, it appears that really was by Hitler.

http://sobadsogood.com/2013/07/22/25-rarely-seen-artworks-painted-by-a
dolf-hitler
/



I did google around a bit myself, I just didn't find any sources more credible than this. Not saying they are lying, but it's not exactly citing anything, so it doesn't tell me much about this painting. For being such an example of Hitler's blonde-fetish, it seems awfully obscure.

It's not really important, though.

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Tuesday, December 17, 2013 3:02 AM

AGENTROUKA


Quote:

Originally posted by kpo:
Quote:

I guarantee - the kids have no problem with a more inclusive fantasy.

The fantasy breaks down though, when it's not consistent on something as basic as skin colour.



Actually, kids are imaginative as heck. If there's not a multiple Santas explanation, it might be that everyone sees Santa differently, or that Santa is a shape shifter... basically, kids have a very flexible way of adapting scenarios to fit the desired result. The result being "Santa makes sense". Which even a lily-white Santa REALLY doesn't. But that doesn't stop kids from loving him.

And considering how young the children who truly believe in Santa are (Seven-year-olds are probably going to be skeptics) they aren't that likely to start making logical inferences that crash the fantasy.

Variety in his skin color is really not that difficult to integrate into the current practice.

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Tuesday, December 17, 2013 8:50 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Let me think about this a little more.......

Exhibit A: Santa isn't Real
Exhibit B: CocaCola invented the traditional Santa Claus we pretty much ALL envision today, at least in America, simply because it's what we've ALL seen printed in 99.9% of the ads in mainstream America for decades.

Hmmmmmmmmm....

Yep. I'm pretty sure that fake dude is, and has always been white to even most "minorities".

Seeing as how he is FAKE, I don't see any harm in black or brown or yellow Santas as well. It's not as if every other single aspect of our lives, let alone our entertainment isn't entirely different than it was even 20 years ago. What harm does seeing Santas of all color do anybody?

Hell. Let's just make one Purple Santa!.... and that idea will work until we all get jealous of the purple alien refugees who come to live here from war-torn planet Grape Ape in the Grimace galaxy and they throw away all of their traditions from their home planet and embrace Santa Claus and the Pagan traditions of Christmas that even most Christians embrace!






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