REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

The glitch is back

POSTED BY: AURAPTOR
UPDATED: Saturday, October 26, 2013 22:31
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Tuesday, October 22, 2013 6:14 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



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Tuesday, October 22, 2013 6:36 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!




Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Tuesday, October 22, 2013 9:11 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



And not 1 Republican or TEA party patriot supported this abomination.




Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Tuesday, October 22, 2013 9:28 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


OH LOOK! Rappy in his own three-way!

Is it cozy in there?


As evidence of "rape mentality"

Tuesday, July 30, 2013 8:11 PM
MAL4PREZ
And just remember, according to Rappy, the term befitting a women who wants the insurance she pays for to cover medications affecting her reproductive organs is

whore

Wednesday, July 31, 2013 4:23 PM
little rappy
The term applies.



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Tuesday, October 22, 2013 9:43 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
OH LOOK! Rappy in his own three-way!

Is it cozy in there?



Odd. You never replied to the multitude of Niki's posts in such a manner.

Have anything relevant to add to the thread topic ? Or are you showing your lowest common denominator colors again ?



Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Tuesday, October 22, 2013 10:43 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


You seem to think I'm on here every day and read every thread. Nope. I read maybe one in 20, and respond to one in every 30 or 40, or thereabouts. And what I read depends on what I stumble upon.

So, got anything of interest to say?


As evidence of "rape mentality"

Tuesday, July 30, 2013 8:11 PM
MAL4PREZ
And just remember, according to Rappy, the term befitting a women who wants the insurance she pays for to cover medications affecting her reproductive organs is

whore

Wednesday, July 31, 2013 4:23 PM
little rappy
The term applies.



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Wednesday, October 23, 2013 4:17 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


The question is, do you ?

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Wednesday, October 23, 2013 6:25 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


That Jon Stewart is a really smart and funny fellow.

But, I have a question: If Obamacare, as you call it, is so bad, why don't you guys just let it run it's course (since it's such a train wreck) and within a few weeks maybe months , people will be so disgusted that they will quit using it and join Brand X Health Care.

It's so simple, even a child could follow that course of action.

Obamacare fails, end of story. What do you say to that? (and don't say that the people will want it because it's a gubmint giveaway. It's supposed to be so bad that people will die, remember!?)

Here's my logic on the above: A really bad thing usually fails, because it's a really bad thing. For example; Romney says that 47% of the people he can't get to because their all suckers for Obama. Turns out he was right!, Right!?

Obama bad for country, naturally he lost........wait, that a bad example because he won the election. I know.......Ted Cruz, said he was gonna Defund Obamacare and.........no, wait that's a bad example too. The Gubmint Shutdown was gonna bring Obama to his knees and ........no, not that one either. Sarah Palin..................definitely not a good example.

Rap, you think of one. I'm fresh out of ideas. I'm sure you have lots in your bag o' goodies.


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:



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Wednesday, October 23, 2013 8:19 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


SGG - There was a reason why O-care wasn't set to kick in until well AFTER Obama was up for election in 2012. Because after that, no matter how bad the roll out, he'd still be President. All the promises made would ( it was hoped ) be long forgotten.

And while it is a tactic to just let the monstrosity run its course, many others have to ask... " why ? ". Why would you allow something so destructive and harmful happen to a nation , just to prove a point ? Sure, you may let your child engage in risky play, knowing full well they'll fall and hurt themselves. That's in part how we grow and learn. But you don't toss your toddler into a gator infested swamp and then say " Swim, buddy! You can do it ! ". There are just some risks that aren't worth taking. And with 17 trillion in debt already, there couldn't be a worse time for this wickedness to happen. Unless ,of course, the debt goes to 20 trillion , or more, as Obama seems to want.

It's called doing the right thing, and not playing politics.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Wednesday, October 23, 2013 8:22 AM

WHOZIT


Now that Barry's been reelected it's safe to trash Obamacare, notice that the media never mentions the hundereds of lay offs in Hollywood and the news media.

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Wednesday, October 23, 2013 12:40 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by G:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

And while it is a tactic to just let the monstrosity run its course, many others have to ask... " why ? ". Why would you allow something so destructive and harmful happen to a nation , just to prove a point ?



What is so destructive about it? Other than it bunches up your panties.



Do you live under a rock? Or is all the news you get from msnbc? Hell, even those guys have been forced to report some facts . Website is a colossal fail. The bill itself is utterly unworkable. It can not possibly deliver what Obama promised .

What isn't destructive about it???

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Wednesday, October 23, 2013 1:01 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I'll offer the other side, G. Just a bit on what's GOOD about it--according to FAUX NEWS (which I assume is an acceptable cite?):
Quote:

Reasons ObamaCare is already good for you

Millions of Americans have already benefited from ObamaCare

In 2011, an estimated 86 million Americans used provisions in the Affordable Care Act to get preventative care through their insurance plans, care that insurance companies previously subjected to co-pays or deductibles but now must provide for free. Over 2.5 million seniors have saved an estimated $1.5 billion thanks to prescription drug discounts included in health care reform.

At least 2.5 million young people now can stay on their parents’ health insurance until age 26. And 4 million small businesses can now claim a tax deduction for providing health insurance to their employees, which so far over a quarter-million small businesses have claimed, providing insurance for 2 million workers.

The individual mandate was originally a Republican idea.

President Obama’s senior adviser David Plouffe called then-Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney “the godfather of the individual mandate.” At a GOP primary debate in 2011, Romney said, “We got the idea of an individual mandate…from [Newt Gingrich], and [Newt] got it from the Heritage Foundation.”

In fact, the idea of requiring businesses or individuals to provide and pay for health insurance traces at least as far back as Richard Nixon, who in 1974 proposed a mandate that “every employer would be required to offer all full-time employees the Comprehensive Health Insurance Plan,” the insurance plan Nixon was pushing.

In 1989, Stuart Butler of the Heritage Foundation shifted the conservative frame from an employer mandate to an individual mandate, writing:

"If a man is struck down by a heart attack in the street, Americans will care for him whether or not he has insurance. If we find that he has spent his money on other things rather than insurance, we may be angry but we will not deny him services—even if that means more prudent citizens end up paying the tab…. A mandate on households certainly would force those with adequate means to obtain insurance protection, which would end the problem of middle-class “free riders” on society’s sense of obligation."

Incidentally, Butler tried to renounce his invention of the individual mandate, but it appears to me that his reasoning reads something like, “I was for it when it was a Republican idea and am against it now that Democrats embraced it.”

The Congressional Budget Office recently cut health care reform’s cost estimates.

Conservatives have relied on apples-to-oranges accounting gimmicks to suggest the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) recently doubled the cost estimates for the Affordable Care Act.

In fact, the CBO adjusted its estimates to say the Affordable Care Act will cost less than originally projected. Moreover, the CBO has said that repealing the Affordable Care Act would increase the deficit by $210 billion.

Something had to be done about health care

The fact is, almost three-quarters of Americans saw health care reform as an urgent priority in the fall of 2009.

President Obama had a plan.

Republicans did not.

Still today, the president is trying to adapt and confirm the implementation of the Affordable Care Act to meet the needs of all Americans while keeping costs down. Republicans simply put forward more budgets that slash Medicare and middle class benefits while giving more tax breaks to the rich.

At the end of the day, while Americans are still on the fence about the Affordable Care Act as a blanket concept, when asked about particular remedies that the law includes, the public is overwhelmingly supportive.

This suggests that the President has a messaging problem, not a policy problem --- whereas the Republicans simply lack any substantive alternative, let alone a popular one.

All of the above suggests that the current fight over health care reform has nothing to do with the Affordable Care Act and everything to do with the President who signed it.

Never mind the fact that the law already shows promising and valuable impact even before it’s fully in effect. Never mind the fact that cost estimates are dropping and, starting in 2014, the law will contain overall health care costs that are crippling our household budgets.

Never mind the fact that the central component of the law was a Republican idea. Conservative ideologues are willing to sacrifice much-needed health care reform and the well-being of millions of Americans who don’t have health insurance or are being denied care because of pre-existing conditions, lifetime caps on spending or other injustices -- all for the sick goal of undermining President Obama. http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/03/28/5-reasons-obamacare-is-alrea
dy-good-for/




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Wednesday, October 23, 2013 1:21 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


The useful idiot speaks. Thanks for the cut/ paste, Niki .

Your State propagandist duties have been noted.


Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Wednesday, October 23, 2013 1:22 PM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by G:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

And while it is a tactic to just let the monstrosity run its course, many others have to ask... " why ? ". Why would you allow something so destructive and harmful happen to a nation , just to prove a point ?



What is so destructive about it? Other than it bunches up your panties.



Do you live under a rock? Or is all the news you get from msnbc? Hell, even those guys have been forced to report some facts . Website is a colossal fail. The bill itself is utterly unworkable. It can not possibly deliver what Obama promised .

What isn't destructive about it???



A classic rappy non-answer. How are the problems with the website destructive? It is going to take a whole lot of spinning to say they are.

How is the bill unworkable? Minus the exchanges, which for the states that made there own are working, and the individual mandates the rest of the law has been in effect for the last few years. So how is it unworkable?

The only thing that the bill will not be able to deliver is near universal health care. That is because of states that did not expand Medicaid. If there is something else please post.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Wednesday, October 23, 2013 1:24 PM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
The useful idiot speaks. Thanks for the cut/ paste, Niki .



Don't call your self a useful idiot, Rappy. It is an insult to useful idiots.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Wednesday, October 23, 2013 1:25 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Nick, he won't answer your questions. Nor will he offer any verifiable facts, and rather than address the facts I put up (which are verifiable, and from FauxNews as well), he'll just spam and snark. Despite the fact that he wrote NOTHING to start this, just cut and pasted two videos...

Do you really expect otherwise?

Meanwhile...



Yup, it's screwed up.


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Wednesday, October 23, 2013 2:12 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


I answered. Don't have time to detail the 2700 page disaster that is the OCare wreck .

HC costs are going up, we were lied to by Obama & the Dems

And it's Niki who is the useful idiot, you idiot, she's the one promoting State lies.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Wednesday, October 23, 2013 2:54 PM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
I answered. Don't have time to detail the 2700 page disaster that is the OCare wreck .

HC costs are going up, we were lied to by Obama & the Dems



Thing is you didn't answer, at all. You spewed talking points which have zero substance.

HC cost are going up yet, but the rise has slowed and the full health care law is just now coming into effect.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Wednesday, October 23, 2013 2:58 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


"HC costs are going up"--doublespeak. Healthcare costs have ALWAYS risen. But according to Forbes and others, they've grown at the slowest rate in 50 years. As of February of this year:
Quote:

New Data Suggests Obamacare Is Actually Bending The Healthcare Cost Curve

According to a new Congressional Budget Office report, hundreds of billions of dollars in federal spending for Medicare and Medicaid are being removed from government projections as federal healthcare spending is now expected to be full 15 percent less than what had been initially budgeted for 2012. The surprisingly low spending projections come as the growth in healthcare spending has hit a new low for the fourth consecutive year.

Now, experts are beginning to recognize that the Affordable Care Act may, in fact, be contributing to the good news—a significant development as bending the cost curve was a primary goal of Obamacare.

While Douglas Elmendorf, Director of the CBO, previously noted that much of the savings were the result of a loss of wealth due to the recession, for the first time, he was willing to say that a ‘significant part’ of the savings are the result of structural change in how healthcare is now being delivered.

While the new data suggests that some of the changes in how providers are paid for delivering healthcare began—and were having a positive impact—prior to passage of Obamacare, the ACA codifies these changes in payment procedures for physicians and hospitals, taking what now appears to be programs that are slowing the growth in costs and applying them to all providers throughout the nation.

Importantly, the slowdown in the cost of care is happening in both the overall rate of spending and government spending. Writes Annie Lowrey in the New York Times—

“The slowdown has occurred in both government and overall health spending. From 2009 to 2011, total health spending grew at the lowest annual pace since the government started keeping records 52 years ago, a trend that seems to have continued last year. In the 2012 fiscal year, Medicare spending per beneficiary grew just 0.4 percent. The new Congressional Budget Office data said that overall Medicare outlays grew 3 percent in 2012, the slowest rate since 2000.”

While we can expect the Obamacare bashers to pour cold water on this good news, there is no denying that the law is paying some dividends in the critically important effort to bend the cost curve in healthcare delivery.

Could this be enough to open people up to contemplating that there may just be other good news to come thanks to health care reform? http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2013/02/12/new-data-suggests-oba
macare-is-actually-bending-the-healthcare-cost-curve/
]


Rap doesn't care about FACTS, he'll say whatever's convenient at any given time, then say exactly the opposite at another time. As of September 2013:
Quote:

Fact Check: Is Obamacare Slowing Growth of Health Costs?

“Thanks in part to the Affordable Care Act, also known as ‘Obamacare,’ the cost of health care is now growing at the slowest rate in 50 years,” Obama said in remarks to his Export Council.

“Just yesterday CMS [Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services] estimated that health care spending grew at it second-slowest rate ever in 2012, will grow at its third-slowest rate ever in 2013, grew at its slowest rate in 2011,” he said. “So the three years since ‘Obamacare’ passed, we’ve seen the slowest growth in health care costs on record.”

Obama’s claim on the historically low growth rates for health costs is true, according to the nonpartisan Kaiser Family Foundation and CMS data. National health spending grew by 3.9 percent from 2009 through 2011, and near 4 percent in 2012; it’s projected to grow at a similar rate through 2013. Those are the lowest rates since the government started keeping track in 1960.

“I think the ACA is responsible for a good bit of what the economy doesn’t explain,” said Larry Levitt, a leading analyst with the Kaiser Family Foundation. http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2013/09/fact-check-is-obamacare-s
lowing-growth-of-health-costs/
]


Rap and his buddies can argue that health care costs are PREDICTED to rise, which they are, for numerous reasons: "Health care spending growth is expected to accelerate in the next few years as the economy improves, Obamacare adds more Americans to insurance rolls, and the U.S. population continues to age and seek more medical services." But the rise in costs has slowed down, period.
Now watch how the right paints this:
Quote:

Over the past year, the cost of all goods and services rose 1.5 percent. But costs for medical services rose 3.1 percent during the same time period, more than twice the CPI’s average rate of inflation.
In addition, the Office of the Actuary at the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS) recently issued its “National Health Expenditure Projections 2012-2022,” which noted that “health spending growth through 2013 is expected to remain just under 4.0 percent." The cost increase is lower than expected, "due to the sluggish economic recovery, continued increases in cost-sharing requirements for the privately insured, and low growth for Medicare and Medicaid,” CMS noted.
Next year, however, overall health care costs are forecast to increase 6.1 percent as “improving economic conditions, the Affordable Care Act (ACA) coverage expansions, and the aging of the population, drive faster projected growth in health spending in 2014 and beyond.”
The same report also predicts that “health spending is projected to grow at an average rate of 5.8 percent from 2012-2022, 1.0 percentage point faster than expected average annual growth in the Gross Domestic Product (GDP).”



NOTE that it doesn't say anything about the fact that a growth in healthcare costs of 3.1 percent is the lowest rate of growth since the government started keeping track in 1960, they just compare it to the CPI. Check out how it HAS been growing for years:



Of course, they don't want you to know about that part, they just want you to think "My gawd, healthcare costs agre growing more than twice the CPI's average rate of inflation, that's HORRIBLE! It MUST be Obama's fault!"

Nor do they want you to think about the fact that healthcare costs have ALWAYS risen, the boomers are all getting to an age where they're going to impact healthcare costs massively, and OVERALL cost of healthcare will go up because more people will be covered. Inconvenient little facts like those mean nothing. All they want you to hear is "healthcare costs are going up!" Alternatively, I invite you to check out the actual facts and think for yourselves.

I challenge Rap to address the facts I've put forth; you can also decide for yourselves based on his response, if any.


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Wednesday, October 23, 2013 4:03 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


31/2 years & $650 million for a website that doesn't work, won't work, and the myrmidons are still all on board.

The willful ignorance of obamabots has no limits.

None.


Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Wednesday, October 23, 2013 4:35 PM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
31/2 years & $650 million for a website that doesn't work, won't work, and the myrmidons are still all on board.

The willful ignorance of obamabots has no limits.

None.



It is sad that all you have to cling to is the problems with the health care website. These problems will get fixed, and than you will have nothing even close to legitimate to bitch about.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Wednesday, October 23, 2013 5:37 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Poor Rap. Here's that touch of perspective again:
Quote:

The last time the government expanded health care, it was also kind of a disaster

If you think the launch of HealthCare.Gov isn't going so well, consider this: When online shopping for prescription drug programs launched back in 2005, things went so badly that the federal government didn't even get off the ground until three weeks after its scheduled launch.

The first obstacle was one of scheduling: Officials had initially scheduled the launch shopping component of the Web site on the Jewish holiday Yom Kippur.



The Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services decided to delay the launch, per then spokesman Gary Karr, as to "respect all partners out there and their religious beliefs,"

But even after that, the site where seniors were supposed to compare drug prescription insurance plans didn't launch until November.



"The Medicare folks have had some trouble getting the tool up and running," then-Washington Post reporter Chris Lee wrote on Nov. 8, 2005. "The original debut date was Oct. 13, but officials delayed it, citing the Jewish holiday Yom Kippur. Next it was promised on Oct. 17, but that day, too, came and went without personalized plan comparisons being available."

A news briefing promised the site would be up and in the afternoon. It didn't happen. "Visitors to the site could not access it for most of the first two hours,: Lee reported. "When it finally did come up around 5 p.m., it operated awfully slowly."

"Certainly I remember, thinking back to 2005, that the launch of the Web site was challenging," says Jack Hoadley, a researcher at Georgetown University who has studied the Part D program since before its launch. "It was pretty regularly a source of frustration just like what we're experiencing now."

What Hoadley says surprised him though, reading back through old news clips over the past few days, is just how challenged the program's digital launch was. "I look back and remember it was rocky," he says, "But I don't think I remember the degree of the rockiness that was the case."

There were other challenges too. As Hoadley and his colleagues wrote in a recent paper on Part D's launch, when seniors called the 1-800 Medicare phone number for help, a review found the agency "only responded to calls accurately and completely only about two-thirds of the time."

Lee reported that an annual booklet sent out to seniors called "Medicare & You" contained "inaccurate details about some of the prescription plan choices." CMS later had to post a chart on the Web site with the accurate information.

The delays of the Medicare.Gov Web site weren't as big news as the glitches with HealthCare.Gov. Both of the stories above ran on page A17 of the news section, unlike the HealthCare.Gov stories that have regularly been landing on the front page.

Gary Karr, who served as a spokesman for Medicare during the rollout, doesn't remember the initial enrollment period being especially difficult. It was right after people signed up that was the real crunch time.

"The enrollment felt pretty good," he says. "The first three weeks of the actual benefit did not feel so good, especially the first week and a half. Every glitch was a problem that got reported in the local papers. That's how it felt to us."

What does seem similar, between the Part D launch and the health law's, is the quick rush to jump to conclusions about success or failure.

"There was also a rush to conclude something is good or bad really fast," Karr says. "That's not different than it was in 2005. Generally, the political system is not patient."

The data suggests that perhaps it should be: Medicare Part D, which is now wildly popular with seniors, had horrible approval ratings when it launched.

These days, about 90 percent of seniors say they are satisfied with their Part D coverage.

"The coverage that people ultimately get is the kind of coverage that they're looking for," Hoadley said of the Part D program. "They don't remember the glitches in the first weeks of getting coverage. It's the coverage that sticks with people." http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/10/11/the-last-ti
me-the-government-expanded-health-care-it-was-also-kind-of-a-disaster/



Let's see, who was President in 2005? Oh, my, It's All Bush's Fault!!!




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Wednesday, October 23, 2013 5:37 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
31/2 years & $650 million for a website that doesn't work, won't work, and the myrmidons are still all on board.

The willful ignorance of obamabots has no limits.

None.



It is sad that all you have to cling to is the problems with the health care website. These problems will get fixed, and than you will have nothing even close to legitimate to bitch about.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.



That's funny, on so many levels.

It's not just about a web site. That is only the symptom of the problem, not the cause of ObamaCare fiasco.

The REAL problems are just beginning. 10000's of employees being cut from their existing plans, hours cut to make full timers into part timers, unbelievable red tape, rates at near double what the web site is quoting... folks, this is far, FAR worse than the MSM is even letting on. And Jon Stewart is already pissed!

Watch out!

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Thursday, October 24, 2013 9:42 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


What's funnier than watching these guys go completely BONKERS over the ACA (which helps us understand their accusing us of freaking out when we're not--I mean, ACA means "The End is Now"?), is how Jon Stewart reamed the ACA roll-out. He did it with humor, he did it with class, and he did it with STYLE. It's four minutes, and I highly recommend it, it's hysterical:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-october-21-2013/the-weakest-link

For Rap to harp on the Dems "losing" Jon Stewart makes me giggle every time. They'll never understand we don't "own" him, and the fact that they can't grasp that he'll happily ream left AND right when they fuck up completely escapes them. As does the fact that we WANT him to.

If you want further giggles, I guess this one means the "right" has "lost" Stewart too:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-october-22-2013/extreme-takeover
--tea-party-edition


And they should LOVE this one, it's got their God Turd Blossom (aka "Commander Hindsight" or "Captain Retrospectively Obvious") in it:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-october-22-2013/extreme-takeover
--tea-party-edition---the-tea-party-vs--karl-rove


"So now, Old Turd Blossom here has to create a super pac to attempt to battle the stupid he himself unleashed."

He also calls out "the single least self-examining Republican crazy enabler", Jon McCain, who is now calling "whackobirds" his "cuckoo-for-Cocoa Puffs colleagues", who are the result of the Pandora's Box HE opened with his "hatchling" (Mamma Grizzly), the guy who gave the Mogwai the post-midnight "all-you-can-eat buffet", hee, hee, hee.

Go Jon! When it comes to skewering politics with humor, Republicans got nothin'.


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Thursday, October 24, 2013 10:36 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


The problem is, it can't be 'fixed'. It's a disaster at the fundamental level of the site, as well as the bill.

2 million lines of code have to be re-written ? By when?

Yeah, good luck w/ that.

ETA - and ya GOTTA love Barry's use of the word 'surge', when he speaks of a tech surge, to fix the problem. He was against the surge in Iraq, right ? Against the war too. I guess , to Barry, this is HIS quagmire!



Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Thursday, October 24, 2013 11:58 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
hours cut to make full timers into part timers,



Do you not realize that you do your case no favors when you continue to repeat that which has been disproven over and over. Seriously??

You bitch about people not accepting "reality" - and then back it with a complete fabrication - a fantasy. And you, somehow, inexplicably.... think it bolsters your argument.

Its amazing.






"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Thursday, October 24, 2013 1:37 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
How is the bill unworkable?



Portions of it are.

For example, the healthcare co-op provision was so hobbled by changes made by insurance lobbyists that the co-ops established so far are almost all in danger of failing and leaving folks without insurance, as noted in another thread. http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=56517

But the big issue of the bill, to me, is that it does nothing to reduce the cost of healthcare. It allows the medical profession to maintain it's state-supported monopoly on medical care, and collude to set whatever prices they choose.


"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Thursday, October 24, 2013 1:53 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Then the logical thing, Geezer, would be for the Republicans to help WORK to make it better, rather than trying to trash the whole thing so viciously and keep pushing the status quo. The "alternatives" they have put forth thus far aren't real reforms, either, and would do LESS to solve the gigantic health-care problems in this country.


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Thursday, October 24, 2013 2:12 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Storybook - nothing I've said has been refuted . You don't like hearing facts that topple your Obama fantasies. But I can't help ya there. Grow up & face the real world. That's the best I can do ya for.


Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Thursday, October 24, 2013 2:21 PM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Then the logical thing, Geezer, would be for the Republicans to help WORK to make it better, rather than trying to trash the whole thing so viciously and keep pushing the status quo. The "alternatives" they have put forth thus far aren't real reforms, either, and would do LESS to solve the gigantic health-care problems in this country.




Never gonna happen, because they will never be okay with Obama having a win - even if it helps Americans. Party over country, as per usual.




"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Thursday, October 24, 2013 3:53 PM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Portions of it are.

For example, the healthcare co-op provision was so hobbled by changes made by insurance lobbyists that the co-ops established so far are almost all in danger of failing and leaving folks without insurance, as noted in another thread. http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=56517



The loss of the co-ops will mean less competition, it does not mean people will not be able to get insurance since the co-ops opperate throught the same exchanges as the larger insurance companies.

Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
But the big issue of the bill, to me, is that it does nothing to reduce the cost of healthcare. It allows the medical profession to maintain it's state-supported monopoly on medical care, and collude to set whatever prices they choose.



Making insurance companies spend 80% or 85% of premiums on health care, and the fact that more people will have insurance are measures to bring down costs.


I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Thursday, October 24, 2013 3:56 PM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
The problem is, it can't be 'fixed'. It's a disaster at the fundamental level of the site, as well as the bill.

2 million lines of code have to be re-written ? By when?

Yeah, good luck w/ that.

ETA - and ya GOTTA love Barry's use of the word 'surge', when he speaks of a tech surge, to fix the problem. He was against the surge in Iraq, right ? Against the war too. I guess , to Barry, this is HIS quagmire!



In the hearing today it was made clear the only ones saying that things have to be re-written are the GOP, the ones who know nothing about code.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Thursday, October 24, 2013 3:56 PM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Storybook - nothing I've said has been refuted .



That is because you have not said anything. You ran from answering any questions.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Thursday, October 24, 2013 4:04 PM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Storybook - nothing I've said has been refuted .



Yes, kiddo, it has. Several times.


But its easy to think what you've said hasn't been refuted when you deliberately refuse to look at any data that conflicts with your pre-determined position.

Luckily, the rest of us are no so deluded.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/10/22/us-usa-healthcare-hiring-ana
lysis-idUSBRE99L1F220131022


I realize you will not acknowledge this, and will continue repeating the same false info. Which is why no one takes you for anything but a joke.




"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Thursday, October 24, 2013 4:29 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Mmm, interesting article, Mark. I note:
Quote:

Also, the number of part-time workers spiked in 2008, well before Obamacare was enacted, and has been slowly falling as a share of total employment since 2010. In September people working part time because they could not find full-time work made up 5.5 percent of the employed, unchanged from August. The spike in 2008 and the steady drift downward since then suggests the elevated level of part-time workers is more likely due to the economy's weakness.


Of course Rap would rather DIE than read that, or (gawd forbid) acknowledge it...


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Thursday, October 24, 2013 6:45 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
The problem is, it can't be 'fixed'. It's a disaster at the fundamental level of the site, as well as the bill.

2 million lines of code have to be re-written ? By when?

Yeah, good luck w/ that.

ETA - and ya GOTTA love Barry's use of the word 'surge', when he speaks of a tech surge, to fix the problem. He was against the surge in Iraq, right ? Against the war too. I guess , to Barry, this is HIS quagmire!



In the hearing today it was made clear the only ones saying that things have to be re-written are the GOP, the ones who know nothing about code.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.



That's absolute bullshit.


In interviews, experts said the technological problems of the site went far beyond the roadblocks to creating accounts that continue to prevent legions of users from even registering. Indeed, several said, the login problems, though vexing to consumers, may be the easiest to solve. One specialist said that as many as five million lines of software code may need to be rewritten before the Web site runs properly.

“The account creation and registration problems are masking the problems that will happen later,” said one person involved in the repair effort.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/21/us/insurance-site-seen-needing-weeks
-to-fix.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0




I way under shot the estimate. 5 million lines of code, not 2 million.

My bad.

Either way, it's a boat load of code to fix.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Thursday, October 24, 2013 6:51 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Storybook - my info isn't " false " , not in the least. Little evidence YET ? I think some aren't looking.

Quote:


ObamaCare's impact on jobs is hotly debated by politicians and economists. Critics say the Affordable Care Act, with its employer mandate to provide health insurance, gives businesses an incentive to cut workers' hours. This year, report after report has rolled in about employers restricting work hours to fewer than 30 per week — the point where the mandate kicks in. Data also point to a record low workweek in low-wage industries.

In the interest of an informed debate, we've compiled a list of job actions with strong proof that ObamaCare's employer mandate is behind cuts to work hours or staffing levels. As of Oct. 17, our ObamaCare scorecard included 351 employers. Here's our latest analysis, highlighting the consequences of cuts to work hours at more than 100 school districts due to ObamaCare's employer mandate. Recently, we examined Indiana's 10th Amendment challenge to the employer mandate. IBD also explained why the employer mandate will undercut the goals of ObamaCare — affordable, reliable coverage — even in cases when employers don't cut work hours. The ObamaCare list methodology is explained further in our initial coverage; click on the employer names in the list below for links to supporting records, mostly news accounts or official documents.

We'll continue to update the list, which we encourage you to share and download into a spreadsheet to sort and analyze. If you know of an employer that should be on the list and can provide supporting evidence, please contact IBD at jed.graham@investors.com or @IBD_JGraham.

http://news.investors.com/politics-obamacare/101713-669013-obamacare-e
mployer-mandate-a-list-of-cuts-to-work-hours-jobs.htm#ixzz2igNe4QIl




Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Thursday, October 24, 2013 9:58 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Portions of it are.

For example, the healthcare co-op provision was so hobbled by changes made by insurance lobbyists that the co-ops established so far are almost all in danger of failing and leaving folks without insurance, as noted in another thread. http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=56517



The loss of the co-ops will mean less competition, it does not mean people will not be able to get insurance since the co-ops opperate throught the same exchanges as the larger insurance companies.



The Washington Post seems to think that folks will lose the health care they now have through the co-ops that fail. I guess that them having to go through the process of finding insurance again after thinking they were covered isn't a problem for you.

Quote:


Making insurance companies spend 80% or 85% of premiums on health care, and the fact that more people will have insurance are measures to bring down costs.



Sorry, but the elephant in the room is the outrageous fees charged by doctors, hospitals, labs, etc. for medical care. The ACA does little to address this.


"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Friday, October 25, 2013 2:42 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"The question is, do you ?"

It took you a whole six hours to come up with that?

BTW. I noticed you didn't answer even one reasonable question, or provide actual facts to back up you opinions. As always. No wonder people think you're an idiot.

So, back to my original question - got anything interesting to say? C'mon, be bold. Be daring. Stop being the idiot and do something radically different. Have something interesting to say.


As evidence of "rape mentality"

Tuesday, July 30, 2013 8:11 PM
MAL4PREZ
And just remember, according to Rappy, the term befitting a women who wants the insurance she pays for to cover medications affecting her reproductive organs is

whore

Wednesday, July 31, 2013 4:23 PM
little rappy
The term applies.


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Friday, October 25, 2013 4:25 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Another "Train wreck" from our recent past:

http://crooksandliars.com/jon-perr/how-democrats-saved-bushs-medicare-
drug-program


How soon we forget!!!


SGG

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Friday, October 25, 2013 7:46 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
That's absolute bullshit.


In interviews, experts said the technological problems of the site went far beyond the roadblocks to creating accounts that continue to prevent legions of users from even registering. Indeed, several said, the login problems, though vexing to consumers, may be the easiest to solve. One specialist said that as many as five million lines of software code may need to be rewritten before the Web site runs properly.

“The account creation and registration problems are masking the problems that will happen later,” said one person involved in the repair effort.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/21/us/insurance-site-seen-needing-weeks
-to-fix.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0




I way under shot the estimate. 5 million lines of code, not 2 million.

My bad.

Either way, it's a boat load of code to fix.



Most likely that so called specialist does not know what they are talking about.

http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/bitwise/2013/10/healthcare_go
v_problems_what_5_million_lines_of_code_really_means.html?wpisrc=burger_bar




I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Friday, October 25, 2013 7:51 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
The Washington Post seems to think that folks will lose the health care they now have through the co-ops that fail. I guess that them having to go through the process of finding insurance again after thinking they were covered isn't a problem for you.



Having peopl have to sign up for a different plan is not as big a problem as being without insurance as you first stated they would be without the co-ops.


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Sorry, but the elephant in the room is the outrageous fees charged by doctors, hospitals, labs, etc. for medical care. The ACA does little to address this.



Save for the Doctors fees, which are because of the cost of medical school, cost for the rest are driven up because some people can't pay for services that are given. So by gettign more people insurance and a way to pay for those services, it very much address your elephant.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Friday, October 25, 2013 8:05 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
The Washington Post seems to think that folks will lose the health care they now have through the co-ops that fail. I guess that them having to go through the process of finding insurance again after thinking they were covered isn't a problem for you.



Having peopl have to sign up for a different plan is not as big a problem as being without insurance as you first stated they would be without the co-ops.


When the co-ops fail, the folks using them are without coverage - quite possibly coverage they've already paid for - until they can find another insurance plan they can afford. They may have to use the healthcare.gov site, which is admittedly not working very well. So they're going to be out of pocket for any healthcare related costs, as well as money lost to the failed co-ops, for some time.


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Sorry, but the elephant in the room is the outrageous fees charged by doctors, hospitals, labs, etc. for medical care. The ACA does little to address this.



Save for the Doctors fees, which are because of the cost of medical school, cost for the rest are driven up because some people can't pay for services that are given. So by gettign more people insurance and a way to pay for those services, it very much address your elephant.


Okay.

This is such an outrageous statement I don't even know how to respond to it.

Maybe some of the others who have experience with medical costs and Big Pharma would like to take a shot.


"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Friday, October 25, 2013 9:34 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


"Single payer anyone?" Amen.

Still amused that, despite it being up in numerous threads, our righties have carefully not addressed how the problems with the Part D rollout were horrendous, too, and how it was vastly unpopular at first, too. Of course, given their God Bush was responsible for THAT one, is anyone surprised?


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Friday, October 25, 2013 4:55 PM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
When the co-ops fail, the folks using them are without coverage - quite possibly coverage they've already paid for - until they can find another insurance plan they can afford. They may have to use the healthcare.gov site, which is admittedly not working very well. So they're going to be out of pocket for any healthcare related costs, as well as money lost to the failed co-ops, for some time.



So a lasp in coverage if their co-op fails make that part of the law unworkable? Yes, they might have a gap in coverage but in the end they will still be covered.


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Okay.

This is such an outrageous statement I don't even know how to respond to it.

Maybe some of the others who have experience with medical costs and Big Pharma would like to take a shot.



In other words you have nothing.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Friday, October 25, 2013 9:34 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
So a lasp in coverage if their co-op fails make that part of the law unworkable? Yes, they might have a gap in coverage but in the end they will still be covered.



It's part of the ACA that doesn't work. It's going to cost folks money that've paid to co-ops for coverage they won't get. It's going to require them to search for new coverage, and probably more expensive coverage since the co-ops were non-profit. Not to mention the problems they'll have if they have substantial medical expenses during the time between when the co-op they thought had them covered fails and they find new coverage.

Yes, eventually, they will probably be covered again, but if the folks who had designed this portion of the ACA had done a proper job, they wouldn't be scrambling to get new coverage.

I'm concerned what other little lapses are going to pop up in many provisions of the ACA that won't be found until they are implemented.

Quote:

In other words you have nothing


I have G's post above about costs for a hip replacement in Europe vs. in the U.S.

I could also note that the U.S. has the highest cost of healthcare as a percentage of GDP and per capita in the world. Go to Nationmaster.com and look under the "health" category at costs, and pretty much every one has the U.S. paying more for healthcare than anyone else in the world.



"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Friday, October 25, 2013 10:26 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

It's going to require them to search for new coverage, and probably more expensive coverage since the co-ops were non-profit.
So profit= BAD. So much for libertarianism!

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Saturday, October 26, 2013 8:32 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:

Most likely that so called specialist does not know what they are talking about.

http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/bitwise/2013/10/healthcare_go
v_problems_what_5_million_lines_of_code_really_means.html?wpisrc=burger_bar





The only messy reporting is coming from the Left, and those friendly towards this administration, it seems.

http://hotair.com/greenroom/archives/2013/10/24/cmon-the-obamacare-web
site-doesnt-have-500-million-lines-of-code
/

****

WASHINGTON (CNN) - Amid the government shutdown, the online health insurance exchanges are open for business.

The White House said there would be glitches with the Affordable Care Act roll-out, but some experts question the severity.

Luke Chung operates a database company in northern Virginia. He's an expert on heavily-trafficked websites, but even he is frustrated navigating 'healthcare.gov.'

Since the Obamacare rollout last week, Chung's been trying only to get quotes on prices, not even to enroll.

Error messages, slow connections, getting booted out of the system, and other problems have exasperated hundreds of thousands of uninsured who've tried to log-on.

Now we're hearing the Obama Administration was warned well before the rollout that the online exchange had big problems.

One Democratic ally of the administration, Congressman Robert Andrews, says he spoke to the White House, months before the unveiling.

"I discussed with White House people things they already knew, which is that an undertaking of this size is going to be very complex," said Andrews.

Andrews believes the White House was on top of the situation. Robert Laszewski, a health-care consultant, disagrees.

Robert says many of his clients, major insurers, had contentious meetings with the administration ahead of the rollout. "Insurance executives have been warning the administration bluntly that this whole system is not ready for primetime. It wasn't going to be ready on October 1st to appropriately enroll people."

http://www.wwlp.com/news/national/were-warnings-for-the-obamacare-site
-ignored



Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Saturday, October 26, 2013 9:16 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

It's going to require them to search for new coverage, and probably more expensive coverage since the co-ops were non-profit.
So profit= BAD. So much for libertarianism!



Well, it's the non-profit co-ops that are failing. So much for communitarianism.


"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Saturday, October 26, 2013 9:32 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I'm afraid when you compare that with all the people who hit their yearly or lifetime "limits", are kicked off by their insurance companies or are denied coverage pre-ACA, it's not much of an argument, in my opinion. I'm pretty sure there will be legal remedies to get any monies they paid for which they are owed, there ARE the subsidies in the ACA and, again, why not work to improve the ACA rather than just try to go back to the bad status quo? The fact that we have the most expensive health care in the world, and don't get as much for it as many other countries, is part of the problem.


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