The silent killer..... by 6IXSTRINGJACK

Thanks for the advice. I figured as much.....

The idea of being on meds at 33 is terrifying to me, but probably not as terrifying this nagging feeling in the back of my mind that I'm due for an aneurism that has popped up ever 30 seconds or so in my waking life since yesterday.

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Saturday, March 9, 2013 7:00 AM

I have to point this out.

Blood alcohol content can actually make your blood a thicker solution and consequently raise your blood pressure.

That's the reason chronic alcoholics have red to purple faces.

I suspect that this is the warning sign that your habits really are killing you.

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Saturday, March 9, 2013 7:23 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Wow. You lot seem awful quick to jump on meds as a lifelong solution.

Have you not even looked into healthier alternatives? My blood pressure is always pretty low - sometimes low enough that the doc wants me on meds to RAISE it - and my temperature runs a degree or two low as well.

Relax, exercise, don't stress over needless crap (and 99% of it is needless)...

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Saturday, March 9, 2013 7:41 AM

AGENTROUKA

From the wikipedia page:

Quote:

Prevention

Lifestyle changes are recommended to lower blood pressure, before starting drug therapy. The 2004 British Hypertension Society guidelines proposed the following lifestyle changes consistent with those outlined by the US National High BP Education Program in 2002 for the primary prevention of hypertension:

- maintain normal body weight for adults (e.g. body mass index 20–25 kg/m2)
- reduce dietary sodium intake to <100 mmol/ day (<6 g of sodium chloride or <2.4 g of sodium per day)
- engage in regular aerobic physical activity such as brisk walking (=30 min per day, most days of the week)
- limit alcohol consumption to no more than 3 units/day in men and no more than 2 units/day in women
- consume a diet rich in fruit and vegetables (e.g. at least five portions per day);

Effective lifestyle modification may lower blood pressure as much an individual antihypertensive drug. Combinations of two or more lifestyle modifications can achieve even better results.

Sorry to hear yo have cause to worry. I definitely think, if you're apprehensive about using drugs and even in combination with drugs, you have a lot of options for making positive changes yourself, so there's that comfort. Best of luck!

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Saturday, March 9, 2013 8:25 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Wow. You lot seem awful quick to jump on meds as a lifelong solution.

Actually, seeing the doctor is my major suggestion.

Quote:
Have you not even looked into healthier alternatives? My blood pressure is always pretty low - sometimes low enough that the doc wants me on meds to RAISE it - and my temperature runs a degree or two low as well.

Relax, exercise, don't stress over needless crap (and 99% of it is needless)...

That's just the way I was, into my late forties. Then, with no change in habits or environment, my BP went way up. Temperature stayed low at around 96.8. Now I'm retired, have lost 25 lbs, run three days a week, have a resting heart rate of around 60, and still need the meds to keep my BP down.

Not saying that Six may not find other options, but getting it checked out is the first step, whatever the solution one chooses.

"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Saturday, March 9, 2013 8:54 AM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Something(s) may be driving your blood pressure up, therefore, changing it(them) could bring your blood pressure down.

As a young person (you are that to me), like most young people in this country, you haven't been taught to treat your body with the respect it deserves. This may be the time to learn that. The best advice I can give you is my grandmother’s, a very canny woman who lived to a healthy 99: "don't overdo".

Eat a nutritious diet, not a fast-food or pre-prepared one. Don't overdo the treats (and fast-food and pre-prepared food also count as treats in addition to what we think of as 'junk food'), don't overdo the dieting. Exercise. Don't overdo the exercise, don't overdo the sedentariness. Take care of business. Don't overdo the denial, don't overdo the stress. Of course, don't overdo the drinking especially. Don't binge drink (more than three drinks at a sitting or four in a day). 1-2 drinks per day (if you can manage to drink and not try to get drunk once you start) is your limit. Oddly enough, that amount of alcohol is healthier than none, but none is healthier than too much.

A recent study also indicated a far far lower overall mortality and rate of non-fatal strokes and heart attacks in people at risk (hypertensive/ diabetic/ obese) by eating a Mediterranean diet instead of the standard US diet even when nothing else changed like weight, blood glucose, medication or BP. You may wish to change the foods you eat. If you can drink reasonably, drink wine.

BTW there are a couple of things about your BP reading ... First of all the machines are NOT calibrated for BP accuracy. Your reading may be good, it may be high, it may be low. The pulse rate is easier to measure and it's harder to screw up, so it's probably accurate. But pulse rates go up and down depending on internal drives from your sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous systems, your kidneys and your brain and your heart. And it goes up and down depending on your level physical conditioning. Also, some people normally run faster than others. ETA: if you take a few BP readings at the same time, your LOWEST reading is considered the valid one - it's possible for your BP to be above its baseline for many reasons, but not possible for it to be lower than baseline. ALSO a high heart rate and moderately elevated BP CAN indicate dehydration and low blood volume. Your blood vessels clamp down and your heart rate goes up (especially during demand, even from standing up) to make up for the lack of blood volume. Stay hydrated - but don't overdo it.

... and how to take it. If you need to go to the bathroom then go first. The need to go will raise your BP. You should be 'resting quietly' for at least 5 minutes before you take a reading. Don’t talk to anyone or listen, doing either raises BP. Your arm should be at heart level. It should be relaxed - don't tense your arm or flex your wrist. Don't cross your legs. Your feet should be flat on the floor. Also, if you are cold, or dehydrated, or anxious, your BP will be up.

SO ... try to get the chaos of your life in order. Be prudent. OF COURSE see a doctor and get it checked out. But unless your BP is extremely high they will recommend other changes first. I think you are young enough that - unless essential hypertension runs in your family as a genetic risk - you have a reasonable chance of getting your blood pressure under control by 'lifestyle modification'. Or as I think of it, treating your body with the respect it deserves.

ETA: All of this advice is of course statistical. Even with very good statistical results, there will be a percentage of people for whom the statistics don't hold up. If after a time of good faith effort something isn't working for you, or you notice things get worse, then stop doing it. There's no need to be an ideologue about this, you just want to make things better. Pay attention to results and do what works. Be prudent and keep on your best path.

Good luck.

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Saturday, March 9, 2013 12:06 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Didn't " they " lower the #'s for what was considered 'healthy' back in the mid 90's or some such? I seem to recall there being some adjustment a while ago.

My BPM usually runs in the low 50's.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Saturday, March 9, 2013 5:53 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/26/health/mediterranean-diet-can-cut-he
art-disease-study-finds.html?src=me&ref=general&pagewanted=all

Mediterranean Diet Shown to Ward Off Heart Attack and Stroke

The findings, published on The New England Journal of Medicine’s Web site on Monday, were based on the first major clinical trial to measure the diet’s effect on heart risks. The magnitude of the diet’s benefits startled experts. The study ended early, after almost five years, because the results were so clear it was considered unethical to continue.

The diet helped those following it even though they did not lose weight and most of them were already taking statins, or blood pressure or diabetes drugs to lower their heart disease risk.

“Really impressive,” said Rachel Johnson, a professor of nutrition at the University of Vermont and a spokeswoman for the American Heart Association. “And the really important thing — the coolest thing — is that they used very meaningful endpoints. They did not look at risk factors like cholesterol or hypertension or weight. They looked at heart attacks and strokes and death. At the end of the day, that is what really matters.”

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Sunday, March 10, 2013 6:30 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Didn't " they " lower the #'s for what was considered 'healthy' back in the mid 90's or some such? I seem to recall there being some adjustment a while ago.

My BPM usually runs in the low 50's.

Wow. That's really good, that's like professional athlete level.

I have really low blood pressure and cholesterol, but my BPM is more like 100. :/ I've gone to doctors and they told me nothing was wrong, and eventually I gave up. It was a major contributing factor in my opinion of doctors as know-nothing apathetic moneygrubbers.

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Sunday, March 10, 2013 7:20 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Tested myself again this morning, at one of those super market stations. My BP was high normal , which it's always been, but my heart rate was 51 and 52 bpm.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Sunday, March 10, 2013 7:53 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
I have to point this out.

Blood alcohol content can actually make your blood a thicker solution and consequently raise your blood pressure.

That's the reason chronic alcoholics have red to purple faces.

I suspect that this is the warning sign that your habits really are killing you.

It's funny you mention that. This cute little thing who's company I enjoy while we work together, but carries way too much drama-related baggage for me to want to get involved with says laughs and points out that I'm turning "pink" when I'm working hard. I told her that white people turn pink when they work hard, but we really probably shouldn't unless we're running marathons and such. Sure, I pull 2,200lb pallets of water about a city block, but at 33 years old with my muscle mass, that shouldn't really be a chore worthy of pink skin.

Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
Sorry to hear yo have cause to worry. I definitely think, if you're apprehensive about using drugs and even in combination with drugs, you have a lot of options for making positive changes yourself, so there's that comfort. Best of luck!

Thanks AR,

My BMI is a little high. I'm still muscular under it all, but even with that considered I should only be around 165lbs instead of 175 for my 5'7" frame. I surely get much more than that workout on average per day at my current job (I've actually lost about 20lbs since I've started, but without a healthy diet and real weight lifting on the side I seem to have hit a plateau). Obviously alcohol is an issue, and the sodium intake is probably more problematic. I don't even own a salt shaker. I NEVER actually "put" salt on anything I eat. I'm just living this 60 dollar per month Aldi budget diet that is chock full of sodium.

I need to re-think what I'm doing....

Kwick is right.... drugs shouldn't be my immediate solution.

I only think that way because, to be honest with you, I'm actually afraid to just start working out and running again without getting those numbers under control.

When I was younger and regularly working out, all I thought about when I was "out of gas" was that I was being a "bitch" and I needed to push myself harder.

Now, especially after being winded doing non-endurance pallet dragging, I'm actually afraid that I might blow my heart out or pop a vein in my head.

Thanks for the advice 1kiki,

I'm sure that my high BP/BPM is because of my smoking, drinking and a diet that consists of 40% pre-packaged food.

I would immediately say that this is one reason that maybe I should find my better half before my heart explodes, but then again, my brother is the one who cooks the healthy meals for his Pharmacist wife who doesn't have a clue about cooking. I've only ever dated one girl who really could cook anything that couldn't be microwaved.

The sad thing is, when I do cook for real, I've got nothing but compliments on it. I actually enjoy it when I make an effort to do it. I'm just so damn lazy outside of work that I hardly ever get around to making a real nutritious meal.

It's funny that you mention the BP-to-BPM accuracy. My readings have fluxuated wildly from 140/80 to 159/92. (Pre-Hypertension/Normal to Hypertension/Hypertension). But the BMP was always abnormally high. At least with my reading online the BPM isn't likely life threatening, but I know personally that I was at under 60BPM in my early/mid twenties while I was actively eating right and working out. Maybe the 26-40 increase per minute in itself is not indicative that I'm killing myself, I know that it's not good from my past readings.

I'll look into that Mediterranean thing. If I like the recipes, maybe it will help.

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Sunday, March 10, 2013 8:16 AM

You said you're pre-hypertension, right?

My dad has that. And exercise and eating right has actually helped a lot with that.

It's when he doesn't do that, when he's sitting around in a chair all day that the problems start and he gets blood clots and so he had to start taking blood thinners (he's in his 50s now, so that's part of it too).

But I can't imagine what would have happened if he hadn't started working out when I was still in school, when he was 30 pounds heavier and his cholesterol was creeping up on him. Probably would have had a massive coronary around 38 years old.

So, diet, sure, but don't underestimate cardiovascular exercise. I suspect a good cardio workout might be a good alternative to drinking or smoking joints, as it releases endorphins. And that will also help this issue. And it'll help you de-stress.

You sound like your job is basically strength training, so now add the other side to this - try jogging or hiking or cycling or swimming, maybe even climbing if you got a sporting good place that could get you started on a rock wall learning the basics. Go to a gym and treadmill if you have to, or take a spinning class.

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Sunday, March 10, 2013 8:32 AM

Hehe... I'm trying to be a "silver-lining" type here and throw myself in the "PRE" category by taking the Median measurements. I've had more than one on either side that showed me as full blow hypertension.

On top of that, I was only worried about a heart attack going into this. From what I hear from the "old people" at my work, a stroke is much more likely than a heart attack......

F'ing great... that's exactly what struck my brother when he was 6 years old and basically ruined his life. Unfortunately, even after the neuro-surgery required to "fix" him when he was so young, he wasn't any "dumber". He was just physically able to do less and has grown to hate the world because of it.

An aneurism is the scariest thing I can comprehend. The fact that he even survived it and can still wipe his own ass was simply because he was so young and his brain was able to make new pathways for many of life's basic functions.

If, because of my own negligence to my body, I were to suffer the same fate, at my age I would never recover like he did.

It's time for two actions.....

1) Start working toward a healthier tomorrow.

2) Make a notarized living will.....

Only one item needs to be put on it. If I'm under retirement age and I need somebody to wipe my ass, put me down.....

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Sunday, March 10, 2013 9:00 AM

AGENTROUKA

If running seems too much at first I highly recommend brisk walks. Definitely get the heart moving but don't endanger your joints or push you to getting winded. Just take a walk in the evening after dinner or after you get back from work, bundle up if it's cold or enjoy the sun if the weather is nice. Listen to fast music to keep your steps fast. Or talk to people on the phone if you don't want to be alone with your thoughts, as long as you do it walking. There can be no downsides. Plus: free.

Next option, if you have safe routes near you: bike rides. It can be the cheapest, ugliest bike imaginable, as long as it's in working condition. Anywhere you can work up a reasonable speed that gets your heart beating is fine, and unlike running, much less danger to your joints and you almost can't get dangerously winded.

Best of all worlds: use biking or walking as actual modes of transport, if you go grocery shopping or visiting a friend nearby or anything reasonably close that can be reached on foot or bike.

As for cooking, you could start small and just make it a project to add one home-made thing to your meals every day to get into the habit, like a small salad. Chop up two tomatoes and half a cucumber, add a vinaigrette, devour. Doesn't take more than five minutes. And once you're used to that you can move on to ambitious projects like thawing frozen peas and carrots or foil-baked fish fillets. (Easiest fish ever.)

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Sunday, March 10, 2013 9:13 AM

Foil baked fish + salsa = surprisingly delicious, healthy, and not much on sodium.

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Sunday, March 10, 2013 10:50 AM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

"My dad has that. And exercise and eating right has actually helped a lot with that.

It's when he doesn't do that, when he's sitting around in a chair all day that the problems start and he gets blood clots and so he had to start taking blood thinners (he's in his 50s now, so that's part of it too)."

It's just my opinion, but at this point in time I'm amazed the modern lifestyle doesn't hurt and kill more of us. We're really adapted to very different conditions. For people whose bodies react badly to a highly abnormal situation, it feels like you're doing something 'special' - being extra careful and taking extra measures. In reality what you're doing is treating your body to the conditions it was built for.

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Monday, March 11, 2013 7:23 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

My blood pressure is great. I can't concentrate hard enough to figure out my BPM on my heart, that requires counting beats and watching seconds which I can't do at the same time. But I assume its ... okay, though when I excert myself I think it goes higher than its supposed to.

Lots of good advice in this thread Jack, particularly from Kiki.

ETA: Okay I tried it and I think I came up with 91 beats per minute, which is bad I know, but maybe I counted wrong or something, its hard for me to watch the clock, count beats and breathe normally, and not breathing normally can cause a wrong count I reckon. So I'm going to try it again in a second...
Okay, that time it was 90, still not so good. But I've got bigger things to worry about in my opinion. I'm trying to survive my brain each day and that takes up all my health related energy. This is one of the reasons why people with mental health differences tend to die a lot sooner, because we just don't have the energy to worry about the rest of our body, our brains are worry enough.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Friday, March 15, 2013 5:38 AM

Hey AR.... Here's my trouble.... I work my ass off at work. Sure, it's only 8 bucks an hour overnight, but it's something to do, and with my borderline OCD style I give it my fullest. Even though I know that nobody has gotten a raise in 3 years and that I never expected to still be there now.....

That store is HUGE. I'm on my feet 7 hours a night pulling pallets and working product, moving this way and that. Wouldn't surprise me if I spent 20,000 footsteps per night there.

Bikerides are, at least, what I need. Without bringing my BP and BPM down, I'm afraid it might kill me.

Nobody would ever expect me to be a candidate for a heart attack/stroke at my age from the outside. I'm relatively young with relatively little fat on my body. Those readings don't lie though. Even if they are high, they're constantly much higher than even my older co-workers' readings....

No wonder the interviewers can sense my nervousness when I go for a good job....

Where most applicants might have a BPM of about 80 while dealing with "nerves" of a job interview, mine is probably at 110-120 since my "resting rate" seems to be about 80BPM....

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Friday, March 15, 2013 7:01 AM

If your blood pressure is good, your BPM isn't that critical, or at least that's what everyone is telling me.

Some people, as mentioned before in this thread, have an abnormally high BPM and live ages with it. My grandma told me that she was told about her high BPM as a teen and she just turned 80 on Valentine's Day.

That's all the soothing I can give your weary brain for now...

If you have a non-hypertension reading for your top/bottom measurements, maybe you're just wired to have a high BPM. That in itself is far from being bad if everything else checks out alright.

I think you and I would be a whole lot healthier if the 90% of people who post here regularly were as honest about their own mental health deficiencies.

Regardless of what they say about them or they don't say about them... trust me Riona, we're far from the minority in this mighty band of... well... whatever we are...

It's not that they're liars. They just don't tell the truth about themselves here. It's not lying if they're not asked about it.

As you can see, I get a lot of abuse directed towards a lot of opinions I put out there now. Immediately, when somebody doesn't like what I have to say, they call me a mindless drunk. I don't mind.... It's not as if somebody else snapped a bunch of pics and posted them here to "ruin" me. I gave that information up myself of my own free will. It's up to them to decide how they want to use it, and it is indicative of their character if they use it against me with no other reason to argue a point.

You're all welcome for that free suckerpunch....

I'm much more self confident than I was in grade school, and I got made fun of much worse for being short and wearing glasses and having braces back then. I've also put my 5 or so years of beating the shit out of people using all of those years of pent up rage to hospitalize them behind me as well. They all deserved it, although I don't feel proud about playing the bully I hated while I grew up.

Don't let anyone bully you, ever.....

Most of the "bullies" I grew up with I ended up cool with because of following that one simple rule. One of them is one of my best friends today.

Quote:
Originally posted by RionaEire:
My blood pressure is great. I can't concentrate hard enough to figure out my BPM on my heart, that requires counting beats and watching seconds which I can't do at the same time. But I assume its ... okay, though when I excert myself I think it goes higher than its supposed to.

Lots of good advice in this thread Jack, particularly from Kiki.

ETA: Okay I tried it and I think I came up with 91 beats per minute, which is bad I know, but maybe I counted wrong or something, its hard for me to watch the clock, count beats and breathe normally, and not breathing normally can cause a wrong count I reckon. So I'm going to try it again in a second...
Okay, that time it was 90, still not so good. But I've got bigger things to worry about in my opinion. I'm trying to survive my brain each day and that takes up all my health related energy. This is one of the reasons why people with mental health differences tend to die a lot sooner, because we just don't have the energy to worry about the rest of our body, our brains are worry enough.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Friday, March 15, 2013 7:22 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

JACK- a high heart rate and moderately high blood pressure sounds like dehydration. Drink more fluids (beer doesn't count, water is best!).

Also, eat more fruits and veggies... at least three servings a day. Bananas, apples, prunes, carrots, oranges... whole food only, can be eaten raw. Their high potassium content will counteract the hugely high amount of sodium that you're getting with your pre-packaged foods.

Do those two things and there is a very good chance that your bp will go down in a month.

Also, as KIKI says.. pay attention to HOW you take your bp. Pee, sit still with feet flat on floor, be quiet and relax. Stress can make in go up... I mean, REALLY go up. My MIL (god rest her soul) would panic about her heart. Well, she had heart failure, so that was natural. She would aks me to measure her bp and I would read 240/120, but I would say something comforting like.. "Oh, not too bad, but I missed the top number. Let me take it again" fiddle with the cuff, re-iterate it was OK and take it again. In the space of one minute, it would drop to 150/90. Stress... really, really makes bp go up. So does drinking.

Good luck.

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Friday, March 15, 2013 11:29 AM

Quote:
As you can see, I get a lot of abuse directed towards a lot of opinions I put out there now. Immediately, when somebody doesn't like what I have to say, they call me a mindless drunk.

That's a fair criticism, and perhaps one I've been guilty of as late as we've engaged in this game of trolling and counter-trolling.

It is similar to what happens whenever I insist I'm a psychopath (which I totally am, but I'm not going to argue it now).

However, I do think that drinking MAY be contributing to your blood pressure problem. I also note that I've lost a number of family members due to similar circumstances - I've had an uncle and a grandmother drink themselves to death in the last two years, developing high blood pressure and clots and alcoholic dementia as a result of drowning themselves in vodka every night until they passed out. Sincerity mode on: I do think you have to make an effort to stop drinking so much, if only for your own health.

Ultimately you're the one who has to make that decision though, and so if this is bothering you, I can stop pestering you about it.

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Monday, March 18, 2013 10:37 AM

I don't mind when you post about it Byte.....

You and Riona and several others post here and on my email about it from time to time and I'm touched. I know and believe that when you post something like this it's from a true place and not from a condescending position.

I know that you know that I need to change my ways. I know I need to change my ways....

I really don't see any reason to though....

Being "free" of all responsibility at 33 is a lot less glamorous than it would seem to be once you're there, unless you're a rock star.....

As much as I'd hate to put up with an outside voice bitching at me constantly, i'm sure the food I'd be inhaling would be a bit more healthy......

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Monday, March 18, 2013 10:55 AM