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REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS
Romney and Republicans Wrong On Abortion
Saturday, October 13, 2012 3:44 PM
M52NICKERSON
DALEK!
Quote:Originally posted by DREAMTROVE: I concur with Rap and CTS. Abortion is a medical procedure that needs to stand the way organ transplants need to stand. There might be times when one life can be saved rather than two be lost. What cannot be allowed to continue is the wholesale genocide of targeted populations by putting the fear of life into people. When you see the silent holocaust for what it is, you will stand in shock and horror at the world you live in.
Saturday, October 13, 2012 3:59 PM
MAGONSDAUGHTER
Quote:Originally posted by m52nickerson: Abortion is not genocide, or a holocaust, and certainly not murder. Why? It is because a fetus is not a person. A fetus is not a baby. There is a reason we have different words for these different stages. I'm sorry, any right a fetus has to life is not greater than a women's rights to her own body. I also don't agree with that argument that all life is precious. I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
Saturday, October 13, 2012 4:18 PM
KWICKO
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)
Quote:Originally posted by Magonsdaughter: And I guess that is where the debate becomes somewhat clinical - and indeed we've had it before many times. Does the state have the right to infringe on the rights of the individual to force them to proceed with an unwanted pregnancy vs the rights of the foetus.
Saturday, October 13, 2012 4:23 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Magonsdaughter: I see no evidence in this world that all life is precious. Quite the contrary. And I'm not sure that we could survive as a species if we held this view.
Saturday, October 13, 2012 5:52 PM
HERO
Saturday, October 13, 2012 5:55 PM
AURAPTOR
America loves a winner!
Quote:Originally posted by Hero: I note for the record that the Supreme Court has said that the State's interest in preserving life outweighs the woman's right to privacy and control of her body. Little known case...Roe v. Wade. H Hero...must be right on all of this. ALL of the rest of us are wrong. Chrisisall, 2012
Saturday, October 13, 2012 6:19 PM
1KIKI
Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.
Saturday, October 13, 2012 6:29 PM
Saturday, October 13, 2012 6:43 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Kwicko: All life *should* be precious. On that day when it finally is, there will likely be little need for abortion. People who insist that life is precious don't generally care a bit about that life once it's cleared the birth canal. At that point, life goes from "precious" to "moocher forty-seven-percenter".
Saturday, October 13, 2012 6:50 PM
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor Dude, what have you been smoking ? Roe v Wade makes abortion legal, everywhere, and free, to any woman, any where, any time she damn well wants.
Saturday, October 13, 2012 7:12 PM
Saturday, October 13, 2012 7:28 PM
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Roe v Wade makes abortion legal, everywhere, and free, to any woman, any where, any time she damn well wants.
Sunday, October 14, 2012 2:14 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Kwicko: Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Roe v Wade makes abortion legal, everywhere, and free, to any woman, any where, any time she damn well wants. "Show me where I said something, which I knew to be false, yet presented the opposite to be true. You can't do it, because it NEVER happened. Not on this board. Ever. " So, are you so monumentally stupid that you believe what you said about Roe to be the truth, or were you lying and stating as fact something which you know to be false?
Sunday, October 14, 2012 3:01 AM
DREAMTROVE
Quote:I also don't agree with that argument that all life is precious.
Quote:Magon Dreamtrove has this thing about there being a conspiracy of forced abortions.
Quote:So Dreamtrove consistently argues against legalised abortion because of his belief that there may be/is forced abortion. Another flawed argument.
Quote:KWICKO All life *should* be precious. On that day when it finally is, there will likely be little need for abortion.
Quote: People who insist that life is precious don't generally care a bit about that life once it's cleared the birth canal.
Sunday, October 14, 2012 3:34 AM
CANTTAKESKY
Quote:Originally posted by DREAMTROVE: Sure, one could support that statement by saying "look at dobson" but dobson is just a horrific failure of a childcare guru. At least they have childcare gurus,
Quote: You would not have the right to kill a conjoined twin that was attached to you, I don't see that this is any different.
Sunday, October 14, 2012 3:45 AM
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Quote:Originally posted by Kwicko: Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Roe v Wade makes abortion legal, everywhere, and free, to any woman, any where, any time she damn well wants. "Show me where I said something, which I knew to be false, yet presented the opposite to be true. You can't do it, because it NEVER happened. Not on this board. Ever. " So, are you so monumentally stupid that you believe what you said about Roe to be the truth, or were you lying and stating as fact something which you know to be false? Sarcasm not made its way out to your little patch of Texas, has it ? Seems not.
Sunday, October 14, 2012 3:50 AM
Sunday, October 14, 2012 4:04 AM
Quote:Originally posted by canttakesky: It was very obvious to me Rappy was being sarcastic about Roe v Wade.
Sunday, October 14, 2012 4:05 AM
Quote:Originally posted by DREAMTROVE: Nick http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide_Convention Strangely, this thread started out with Jongs doubts and Rap's response, but I think it's Raps response that has most of us here talking about the issue, and it seems that this person in the video was talking to us very much like a person, so yeah, I'm going to go with, it's a person. Secondly, no, it's not her body. It's the child's body. You would not have the right to kill a conjoined twin that was attached to you, I don't see that this is any different. As for holocaust. 1.2 billion children. That can't just be chalked up to fickle female behavior, that's systematic slaughter.
Quote:Originally posted by DREAMTROVE:Then we're not going to get anywhere. You know I'm a Taoist so you're basically posting you think my belief is wrong, and you might as well have just posted "I don't see the world the way DT does."
Sunday, October 14, 2012 4:07 AM
Sunday, October 14, 2012 4:21 AM
Quote:Originally posted by m52nickerson: The convention is talking about people, a fetus is not a person by definition.
Sunday, October 14, 2012 4:24 AM
Sunday, October 14, 2012 4:25 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Kwicko: Your challenge didn't say "Show me where I said something in a non-sarcastic way, which I knew to be false, but presented the opposite to be true."
Sunday, October 14, 2012 4:39 AM
Quote:Originally posted by canttakesky: Quote:Originally posted by m52nickerson: The convention is talking about people, a fetus is not a person by definition. The definition can change. It used to mean person. Now it doesn't. In some countries, a fetus is defined as a person. In others, it isn't. That's what we're arguing about. Should the definition change?
Sunday, October 14, 2012 5:21 AM
Sunday, October 14, 2012 5:28 AM
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Can a fetus vote ? Can a fetus get a driver's license ? Can a fetus buy alcohol ? No. Can a 7 year old do any of those things, legally ? No. Is a 7 yr old an "animal" any more or less than we ? Or a fetus ? As a former fetus, as we all are, I tend to side w/ the whole " they're human " definition.
Sunday, October 14, 2012 6:01 AM
Quote:Originally posted by m52nickerson: Oh and human fetuses are human. They are just not people.
Sunday, October 14, 2012 6:19 AM
Sunday, October 14, 2012 6:27 AM
Sunday, October 14, 2012 10:33 AM
Quote:1.2 billion abortions, not one of them was a child.
Quote:On this and other things I know the way you see the world is not the way it really is.
Sunday, October 14, 2012 10:57 AM
Quote:Originally posted by DREAMTROVE: Nick, Did I ask you to define me? Do I sit at home thinking "I wonder if M52Nickerson approves of what I'm thinking right now?" I didn't think so.
Quote:Originally posted by DREAMTROVE: Oh really, not one? not even the one in the video at the start of this thread? cause you know that what we all are talking about.
Quote:Originally posted by DREAMTROVE:Oh you do really know that don't you.
Quote:Originally posted by DREAMTROVE:If a Taoist says they support abortion then I would be very dubious of their understanding of the Tao. The sacred nature of forces in motion remaining in motion is more essential to the Tao than any other principle including the sanctity of life. Even if you weren't willing to admit that a foetus was alive, you would still have to admit that a pregnancy was a force in motion. To the Tao this makes it basically the literal hand of God. The flow of the forces is the Tao, it's the divine hand in taoism. Taoism isn't as literal and direct in its ideas as western religions because it is designed to be understood only by those who have actually followed the path and lived according to its principles. You cannot simply cherry pick lines and convince people you're a taoist. Lao Tzu intentionally designed it that way, which is why it opens with the tao which can be spoken is not the true tao. So, when taoists believe something, it should because that idea is intrinsic to concept. Free Market economics, for example, is generally believed to be intrinsic to the Tao, because of its connection to forces in motion as opposed to human regulation and action as an economic guiding hand. This interpretation led Mao Tse Dong to ban the text for years, but I think it's correct, and most Taoists still hold to it, even though nowhere in the Tao does it say "the monetary system should be a free market one" or anything to that effect really. For me, by contrast, the issue of abortion is pretty clearly spelled out. That said, I suspect you could find Citizen if he's still here would probably agree with you. He and I don't see eye to eye on the tao.
Sunday, October 14, 2012 11:19 AM
Quote:Originally posted by 1kiki: "The 14th Amendment says all persons born or naturalized are "citizens" but goes on to say that the State cannot deny a "person" their basic right to life without Due Process." So, do you support drone killings? Yes or no. "Personhood' is a whole different concept, far more legal and social.
Sunday, October 14, 2012 11:32 AM
Quote:Originally posted by 1kiki: Taoists aren't pacifists.
Sunday, October 14, 2012 12:31 PM
Sunday, October 14, 2012 12:35 PM
SOCKPUPPET
Sunday, October 14, 2012 12:47 PM
JONGSSTRAW
Sunday, October 14, 2012 1:50 PM
Quote:Originally posted by DREAMTROVE: As for holocaust. 1.2 billion children. That can't just be chalked up to fickle female behavior, that's systematic slaughter.
Sunday, October 14, 2012 2:05 PM
Quote:Originally posted by SOCKPUPPET: You are arguing with someone whose own prime directive is exterminate and ya think you can appeal to their kinder inner nature?
Sunday, October 14, 2012 2:13 PM
Sunday, October 14, 2012 2:33 PM
MAL4PREZ
Quote:Originally posted by Magonsdaughter: OK, DT, since you took great offense at my post, I'll direct this one at you. but don't expect it to be pleasant.
Sunday, October 14, 2012 2:43 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Magonsdaughter: YOU continually bring up forced abortions in this issue,
Sunday, October 14, 2012 2:50 PM
Quote:Originally posted by 1kiki: 'Hero' I got it. Basically, you have no answers to my two simple questions.
Sunday, October 14, 2012 3:40 PM
Sunday, October 14, 2012 3:44 PM
Sunday, October 14, 2012 3:54 PM
Quote:Originally posted by 1kiki: Your answers were, in reverse order of which you gave them do you support drone strikes? > yes and no what is the legal definition of a person? > I imagine one in the 14th amendment They were words, not answers.
Sunday, October 14, 2012 3:56 PM
Sunday, October 14, 2012 4:08 PM
Quote:Originally posted by m52nickerson: Hero said her supports drone strikes in some situation but not others, that is a clear answer. He also said that a fetus is not considered a citizen and as such is not protected by the 14th. Again a pretty clear answer. .
Sunday, October 14, 2012 4:25 PM
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