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REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS
Executive Privilege: White House didn't know, but oops, maybe we did know
Monday, June 25, 2012 6:08 AM
CAVETROLL
Monday, June 25, 2012 6:30 AM
NIKI2
Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...
Monday, June 25, 2012 7:04 AM
KWICKO
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)
Quote:Originally posted by CaveTroll: But don't worry. Kwindbago will be along to explain it all away by telling you that Jon Stewart is a well known right-wing news source.
Monday, June 25, 2012 7:06 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: Have you found anyone here who says the use of Executive Privilege is a GOOD thing? You're arguing against ghosts.
Monday, June 25, 2012 8:58 AM
BIGDAMNNOBODY
Quote:Originally posted by Kwicko: But congratulations on running away from the thread for days on end and then coming back with such weak tea. I notice you're still avoiding the other threads where I asked you to answer direct questions. As always, when the going gets tough, the trolls run away!
Monday, June 25, 2012 10:15 AM
6IXSTRINGJACK
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Crassic !
Monday, June 25, 2012 11:28 AM
Quote:Originally posted by BIGDAMNNOBODY: Quote:Originally posted by Kwicko: But congratulations on running away from the thread for days on end and then coming back with such weak tea. I notice you're still avoiding the other threads where I asked you to answer direct questions. As always, when the going gets tough, the trolls run away! Kwicko, Please post your rules for RWED.
Monday, June 25, 2012 1:43 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Kwicko: Sorry, you'll have to ask Troll for the rules. He bitched about it all over the site when I didn't respond for a couple hours, then he ran away when I did respond. I've seen you do the same thing, more than a few times. ;)
Monday, June 25, 2012 1:57 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: And the fact remains, this has nothing to do with F&F ITSELF; Issa is fishing to find out why they initially said they didn't know about it, then AMENDED their letter once they'd looked into it. That is all this "furor" is about, that and nothing more. The administration explained that, Issa just wants to keep digging. Anyone who says he wants as many investigations as Issa said right after he got power, without any idea what needs investigating, will obviously use any excuse to fish for SOMETHING, anything.
Monday, June 25, 2012 2:05 PM
Quote:Originally posted by BigDamnNobody: Quote:Originally posted by Kwicko: Sorry, you'll have to ask Troll for the rules. He bitched about it all over the site when I didn't respond for a couple hours, then he ran away when I did respond. I've seen you do the same thing, more than a few times. ;) And if CaveTroll and I jumped off of a bridge...?
Monday, June 25, 2012 2:10 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Kwicko: Quote:Originally posted by CaveTroll: But don't worry. Kwindbago will be along to explain it all away by telling you that Jon Stewart is a well known right-wing news source. I'd ask you for a cite for such an idiotic statement, but we already know you've been unwilling to show any evidence to back up any of your ludicrous claims, so asking for your evidence of this is probably wasted time... But congratulations on running away from the thread for days on end and then coming back with such weak tea. I notice you're still avoiding the other threads where I asked you to answer direct questions. As always, when the going gets tough, the trolls run away!
Monday, June 25, 2012 4:15 PM
Monday, June 25, 2012 4:24 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Kwicko: Quote:Originally posted by CaveTroll: Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: So all you guys believe this is about "a government agency trying to create a situation that will require more gun restrictions", eh? Wow. There's nothing more to say about such a theory... It's not a theory. When gun advocates believed that, it was a theory. Now CBS reports that it has government documents stating that. If true, that means it moves from theory to reality. I've been trained by the right never to believe CBS reports. I mean, there's every likelihood that their report is a forgery, right? And yes, Troll, I'm still laughing at you as you try to use the sources you on the right have discounted as verification for your bullshit stories. Quote: Theory. Reality. You do understand the difference, right? To say nothing about a government engaged in social engineering. Hmm, seems there was a movie a while back that had that very concept as a major plot point... Did it involve invading Iraq to inflict democracy on them, 'cause that bit of social engineering was a fucking HOOT! How many U.S. "agents" got killed in that li'l clusterfuck? And how come you weren't crying over their deaths? "I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero "I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy
Quote:Originally posted by CaveTroll: Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: So all you guys believe this is about "a government agency trying to create a situation that will require more gun restrictions", eh? Wow. There's nothing more to say about such a theory... It's not a theory. When gun advocates believed that, it was a theory. Now CBS reports that it has government documents stating that. If true, that means it moves from theory to reality.
Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: So all you guys believe this is about "a government agency trying to create a situation that will require more gun restrictions", eh? Wow. There's nothing more to say about such a theory...
Quote: Theory. Reality. You do understand the difference, right? To say nothing about a government engaged in social engineering. Hmm, seems there was a movie a while back that had that very concept as a major plot point...
Tuesday, June 26, 2012 5:45 AM
Quote: Representative Darrell Issa, the Republican leading the investigation into the Obama administration’s handling of the botched gun-smuggling investigation known as Operation Fast and Furious, appeared to contradict Speaker John A. Boehner on Sunday, saying there was no evidence that White House officials were involved in a cover-up. The statements from Mr. Issa, the chairman of the House oversight committee, came after Mr. Boehner said last week that President Obama’s decision to assert executive privilege to shield Justice Department documents related to the operation was “an admission that the White House officials were involved in decisions that misled the Congress and covered up the truth.” On “Fox News Sunday,” a clip of Mr. Boehner’s statement was played and Mr. Issa was asked in an interview whether his committee had evidence that White House officials had knowingly misled Congress about the case. “No, we don’t,” Mr. Issa said. “And I hope they don’t get involved. I hope this stays at Justice. And I hope that Justice cooperates, because ultimately, Justice lied to the American people.” The House is scheduled to vote on the committee’s contempt recommendation this week, Mr. Issa said. Democrats say Mr. Holder has handed over enough documents to answer the questions the committee is investigating. Republicans, meanwhile, contend that the administration is covering up how it misled Congress about the operation. Also on the Fox program, the ranking Democrat on the oversight committee, Elijah E. Cummings, said Mr. Boehner should meet with Mr. Holder to resolve the dispute about the documents. “I am calling on Speaker Boehner to come forth and show strong leadership — and I know he will — and sit down with the attorney general to resolve this matter,” Mr. Cummings said, adding that Mr. Holder had “turned over 7,600 documents, going through millions of e-mails, and has even given up what’s called internal deliberative documents.” He went on: “These are the types of documents that attorney generals, over and over, and year after year, have held close to them and themselves in their offices. But he has done that.” http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/25/us/issa-says-no-evidence-of-white-house-cover-up-in-guns-case.html "proof" mind you, but no "evidence" whatsoever. So he's got nothing. But by gawd, he'll bust his ass to FIND something, even if it takes years--unless Romney gets elected, in which case he'll forget about the whole thing.Quote:The head of the House Oversight committee muted one of his invited witnesses on Wednesday for testifying in favor of tougher gun laws. Rep. Darrell Issa (R-Calif.) said an ATF official's promotion of gun reform fell "outside the scope" of the hearing and "would not be considered valid testimony." Appearing before the panel, Peter Forcelli, a special agent for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF), told lawmakers that straw purchasers – those who buy guns on behalf of others – should be hit with stiffer penalties to discourage gun trafficking. "I think perhaps a mandatory minimum one-year sentence might deter an individual from buying a gun," Forcelli said. He was responding to a question from Rep. Carolyn Maloney (D-N.Y.), who said the current penalties are so weak that they discourage state prosecutors from pursuing straw-purchase cases. Forcelli agreed the current penalties do little to intimidate straw purchasers. That brief exchange prompted Issa to intervene."We're not here to talk about proposed gun legislation," Issa said. We're repeatedly asked whether Rep. Darrell Issa's (R-CA) hearings into a controversial ATF operation that allowed certain shipments of firearms to cross the border into Mexico would also address the weak statutory authority that law enforcement are forced to rely on to prevent trafficking to Mexican drug cartels. Today, we learned that law enforcement witnesses called by Issa are eager to discuss the issue, but the Oversight Committee chairman is willing to do everything in his power to stop that problem from coming to the forefront. During this morning's hearing, Rep. Carolyn Maloney (D-NY) asked ATF Special Agent Peter Forcelli whether he has heard that district judges criticize the prosecutions of straw purchasers as "paper violations" because they are based on statutes that carry such low penalties. Forcelli replied, "I have, and I agree with it," and called for a one-year mandatory minimum sentence for such offenses to better deter purchasers. Issa immediately broke in to cut off this line of discussion, saying that the witness was testifying outside of the scope of the hearing. After an extended exchange between Issa and Rep. Elijah Cummings (D-MD) in which Cummings said that Issa couldn't tell the witness what to testify to, Maloney explained why this line of questioning is crucial.Quote: ISSA: I'd only caution we're not here to talk about proposed gun legislation. That would be outside the scope of this hearing. MALONEY: I wasn't discussing that. I was trying to figure out why the Justice Department and the [Inspector General] found that prosecutors often decline these gun cases. I want to know why they're declining them. And to quote from the testimony, one of you said because they believe it is difficult to obtain convictions in these violations. Aren't Republicans supposed to be tough on crime? We're talking about guns being brought into Satan's backyard; or if you're not talking to Pat Buchanan---Mexico. Here's what this hearing is about:Quote: Issa had called the hearing to examine a controversial ATF operation – dubbed "Fast and Furious" – that put firearms into the hands of known drug smugglers in order to track them to Mexican cartel leaders. Hundreds of those firearms have gone missing and several have been linked indirectly to the murder of border patrol agent Brian Terry, who was killed in a December firefight in Arizona. Terry's family submitted a statement to Wednesday's oversight hearing, calling for the prosecution of everyone – even government agents – involved in the tragedy.Why aren't the penalties for bring guns into Mexico relevant to the investigation? I guess his NRA buddies wouldn't approve. http://earlkrugel.blogspot.com/2012/03/daryl-issa-simpleton-or-blithering.html course they're not! Issa's purpose is to go after Holder/Obama, even if he's got no "evidence", not to actually look into what might actually deal with the issue of guns going to Mexico! And there it is! THERE IT IS! Proof this whole thing is about taking away everyone's guns! "They" want to talk about REGULATION, not what the DOJ knew and when they knew it and how they, they, they... well, whatever they did, we don't want to talk about the actual PROBLEM and why F&F was created in the first place!! That's obviously "irrelevant"...
Quote:The head of the House Oversight committee muted one of his invited witnesses on Wednesday for testifying in favor of tougher gun laws. Rep. Darrell Issa (R-Calif.) said an ATF official's promotion of gun reform fell "outside the scope" of the hearing and "would not be considered valid testimony." Appearing before the panel, Peter Forcelli, a special agent for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF), told lawmakers that straw purchasers – those who buy guns on behalf of others – should be hit with stiffer penalties to discourage gun trafficking. "I think perhaps a mandatory minimum one-year sentence might deter an individual from buying a gun," Forcelli said. He was responding to a question from Rep. Carolyn Maloney (D-N.Y.), who said the current penalties are so weak that they discourage state prosecutors from pursuing straw-purchase cases. Forcelli agreed the current penalties do little to intimidate straw purchasers. That brief exchange prompted Issa to intervene."We're not here to talk about proposed gun legislation," Issa said. We're repeatedly asked whether Rep. Darrell Issa's (R-CA) hearings into a controversial ATF operation that allowed certain shipments of firearms to cross the border into Mexico would also address the weak statutory authority that law enforcement are forced to rely on to prevent trafficking to Mexican drug cartels. Today, we learned that law enforcement witnesses called by Issa are eager to discuss the issue, but the Oversight Committee chairman is willing to do everything in his power to stop that problem from coming to the forefront. During this morning's hearing, Rep. Carolyn Maloney (D-NY) asked ATF Special Agent Peter Forcelli whether he has heard that district judges criticize the prosecutions of straw purchasers as "paper violations" because they are based on statutes that carry such low penalties. Forcelli replied, "I have, and I agree with it," and called for a one-year mandatory minimum sentence for such offenses to better deter purchasers. Issa immediately broke in to cut off this line of discussion, saying that the witness was testifying outside of the scope of the hearing. After an extended exchange between Issa and Rep. Elijah Cummings (D-MD) in which Cummings said that Issa couldn't tell the witness what to testify to, Maloney explained why this line of questioning is crucial.Quote: ISSA: I'd only caution we're not here to talk about proposed gun legislation. That would be outside the scope of this hearing. MALONEY: I wasn't discussing that. I was trying to figure out why the Justice Department and the [Inspector General] found that prosecutors often decline these gun cases. I want to know why they're declining them. And to quote from the testimony, one of you said because they believe it is difficult to obtain convictions in these violations. Aren't Republicans supposed to be tough on crime? We're talking about guns being brought into Satan's backyard; or if you're not talking to Pat Buchanan---Mexico. Here's what this hearing is about:Quote: Issa had called the hearing to examine a controversial ATF operation – dubbed "Fast and Furious" – that put firearms into the hands of known drug smugglers in order to track them to Mexican cartel leaders. Hundreds of those firearms have gone missing and several have been linked indirectly to the murder of border patrol agent Brian Terry, who was killed in a December firefight in Arizona. Terry's family submitted a statement to Wednesday's oversight hearing, calling for the prosecution of everyone – even government agents – involved in the tragedy.Why aren't the penalties for bring guns into Mexico relevant to the investigation? I guess his NRA buddies wouldn't approve. http://earlkrugel.blogspot.com/2012/03/daryl-issa-simpleton-or-blithering.html course they're not! Issa's purpose is to go after Holder/Obama, even if he's got no "evidence", not to actually look into what might actually deal with the issue of guns going to Mexico! And there it is! THERE IT IS! Proof this whole thing is about taking away everyone's guns! "They" want to talk about REGULATION, not what the DOJ knew and when they knew it and how they, they, they... well, whatever they did, we don't want to talk about the actual PROBLEM and why F&F was created in the first place!! That's obviously "irrelevant"...
Quote: ISSA: I'd only caution we're not here to talk about proposed gun legislation. That would be outside the scope of this hearing. MALONEY: I wasn't discussing that. I was trying to figure out why the Justice Department and the [Inspector General] found that prosecutors often decline these gun cases. I want to know why they're declining them. And to quote from the testimony, one of you said because they believe it is difficult to obtain convictions in these violations.
Quote: Issa had called the hearing to examine a controversial ATF operation – dubbed "Fast and Furious" – that put firearms into the hands of known drug smugglers in order to track them to Mexican cartel leaders. Hundreds of those firearms have gone missing and several have been linked indirectly to the murder of border patrol agent Brian Terry, who was killed in a December firefight in Arizona. Terry's family submitted a statement to Wednesday's oversight hearing, calling for the prosecution of everyone – even government agents – involved in the tragedy.
Wednesday, June 27, 2012 7:12 AM
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