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Executive Privilege: White House didn't know, but oops, maybe we did know

POSTED BY: CAVETROLL
UPDATED: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 07:12
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 6151
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Monday, June 25, 2012 6:08 AM

CAVETROLL


Those are all wonderful statistics, Niki. Now, what was that quote from Mark Twain about 3 types of lies?

Trying to hang this on party politics, the election and Holder's intercession on voter rolls in Florida is nice, but ignores the fact that this investigation has been going on, and being stonewalled by Holder and DOJ, for 18 months. Maybe, if Holder had cooperated from the beginning, this investigation would have been over by now.

And you don't remember the string of news stories being fed to the public in 2009 about the number of US made guns being seized in Mexico? Clinton, Holder, Napolitano and even Obama making comments bout working on gun control? Perhaps I remember because it is a hot button issue for me, just as women's rights is a hot button issue with you.

A narrative was being created. They were trying to tell a story.

Add it up. There was no attempt to track the guns, as there was in Gunrunner and Wide Receiver. There was no cooperation with Mexico, again, as there was in GR and WR. Their method of tracking the guns was, apparently, to find them after they showed up at crime scenes in Mexico and the US. How does this add up to any but the most addled brain as anything but an attempt to flood guns into the wrong hands on both sides of the border? Who benefits from that action? What is the likely outcome of that situation?

The questions answer themselves, if you take an objective look at the situation and the known actions of the principal players. The question that needs to be answered now is, where did the orders come from and when will the origin of those orders be called to answer for their actions?

Even Jon Stewart is against Obama on executive privilege.



But don't worry. Kwindbago will be along to explain it all away by telling you that Jon Stewart is a well known right-wing news source.


Kwindbago, hot air and angry electrons

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Monday, June 25, 2012 6:30 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Have you found anyone here who says the use of Executive Privilege is a GOOD thing? You're arguing against ghosts.

And the fact remains, this has nothing to do with F&F ITSELF; Issa is fishing to find out why they initially said they didn't know about it, then AMENDED their letter once they'd looked into it. That is all this "furor" is about, that and nothing more. The administration explained that, Issa just wants to keep digging.

Anyone who says he wants as many investigations as Issa said right after he got power, without any idea what needs investigating, will obviously use any excuse to fish for SOMETHING, anything.


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Monday, June 25, 2012 7:04 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by CaveTroll:
But don't worry. Kwindbago will be along to explain it all away by telling you that Jon Stewart is a well known right-wing news source.




I'd ask you for a cite for such an idiotic statement, but we already know you've been unwilling to show any evidence to back up any of your ludicrous claims, so asking for your evidence of this is probably wasted time...

But congratulations on running away from the thread for days on end and then coming back with such weak tea. I notice you're still avoiding the other threads where I asked you to answer direct questions.

As always, when the going gets tough, the trolls run away!



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Monday, June 25, 2012 7:06 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Have you found anyone here who says the use of Executive Privilege is a GOOD thing? You're arguing against ghosts.




But if he just assigns us all our positions and opinions, every argument works out in his favor!

Maybe he's taking his cues from his lord and savior Mittens "R-Money" Romney: just agree with every side of every issue, and you've got all your bases covered!



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Monday, June 25, 2012 8:58 AM

BIGDAMNNOBODY


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
But congratulations on running away from the thread for days on end and then coming back with such weak tea. I notice you're still avoiding the other threads where I asked you to answer direct questions.

As always, when the going gets tough, the trolls run away!


Kwicko,

Please post your rules for RWED.

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Monday, June 25, 2012 10:15 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

Crassic !







Is it just me, or does it sound like Porky Pig speaking to Larry King here?


Bdeeeebeeee... Bedeeeeebe.... Bedebeeeee... 2012's all Folks!






Here's how it's done Barry:





EDITED to add....

Go ahead and count it yourself, and tell me I was wrong, but I counted 20 "Uhh's" in a 1 minute and 14 second clip. If this clip were as long as Pulp Fiction, Obama would have said "Uh" 10 times as many times as the "F" word was uttered in the entire movie.

Funny, Bammy doesn't stutter like that when reading off the teleprompter when "hecklers" aren't throwing him off his game.

Good show Larry


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Monday, June 25, 2012 11:28 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by BIGDAMNNOBODY:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
But congratulations on running away from the thread for days on end and then coming back with such weak tea. I notice you're still avoiding the other threads where I asked you to answer direct questions.

As always, when the going gets tough, the trolls run away!


Kwicko,

Please post your rules for RWED.




Sorry, you'll have to ask Troll for the rules. He bitched about it all over the site when I didn't respond for a couple hours, then he ran away when I did respond. I've seen you do the same thing, more than a few times. ;)



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Monday, June 25, 2012 1:43 PM

BIGDAMNNOBODY


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Sorry, you'll have to ask Troll for the rules. He bitched about it all over the site when I didn't respond for a couple hours, then he ran away when I did respond. I've seen you do the same thing, more than a few times. ;)


And if CaveTroll and I jumped off of a bridge...?

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Monday, June 25, 2012 1:57 PM

CAVETROLL


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
And the fact remains, this has nothing to do with F&F ITSELF; Issa is fishing to find out why they initially said they didn't know about it, then AMENDED their letter once they'd looked into it. That is all this "furor" is about, that and nothing more. The administration explained that, Issa just wants to keep digging.

Anyone who says he wants as many investigations as Issa said right after he got power, without any idea what needs investigating, will obviously use any excuse to fish for SOMETHING, anything.



Niki, Really, this is the best you have? You're ignoring the multiple crimes committed by ATF and the fact that Holder lied to Congress. The DOJ retractions only came after they pointed out his lies. Imagine what would happen to you if you did the same thing to Congress.

And you pass it all off as partisan politics. God, I wish it were that simple. Partisan politics didn't kill Brian Terry.


Kwindbago, hot air and angry electrons

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Monday, June 25, 2012 2:05 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Sorry, you'll have to ask Troll for the rules. He bitched about it all over the site when I didn't respond for a couple hours, then he ran away when I did respond. I've seen you do the same thing, more than a few times. ;)


And if CaveTroll and I jumped off of a bridge...?




If one of you jumped off a bridge, neither of you might ever post here again.

But thanks for going ahead and admitting that you'll never hold yourself to the same standard you hold others to. That's a big step for you!



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Monday, June 25, 2012 2:10 PM

CAVETROLL


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Originally posted by CaveTroll:
But don't worry. Kwindbago will be along to explain it all away by telling you that Jon Stewart is a well known right-wing news source.




I'd ask you for a cite for such an idiotic statement, but we already know you've been unwilling to show any evidence to back up any of your ludicrous claims, so asking for your evidence of this is probably wasted time...

But congratulations on running away from the thread for days on end and then coming back with such weak tea. I notice you're still avoiding the other threads where I asked you to answer direct questions.

As always, when the going gets tough, the trolls run away!




You mean like this link, posted earlier in this thread.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-57338546-10391695/documents-atf-
used-fast-and-furious-to-make-the-case-for-gun-regulations
/

Which you IMMEDIATELY dismissed as a "right wing news source".

You certainly have learned from your lord and master. You try to rewrite the narrative of a thread every time it goes against you. You should LEAN FORWARD some more so you can better service Obama.

You NEVER post supporting information. You rely solely on the moral equivalence and the ad hominem attack. But those are wearing thin, Kwindbago. The only alliances you have here are strange bedfellows of common cause.

Have you ever considered what a horrible person you must have been in your previous lives to earn the life you have now? The only notability you have only extends only to this website. If I had a relative even a tenth as disgraceful as you I'd give them a loaded handgun, some privacy and a suggestion that they do the right thing.

Don't bother replying unless you have some facts to support your position. I won't be replying to your written flatulence.


Kwindbago, hot air and angry electrons

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Monday, June 25, 2012 4:15 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


So, as usual, you'll run away like the coward we all know you to truly be.

Big surprise there.

By the way, if you weren't so fucking stupid, you might have noticed that *I* didn't call CBS a "right-wing news source"; YOU tried to cite them as a source, and I pointed out that the right wing has, for the better part of a decade now, been trading on the Dan Rather thing as a way to discredit CBS News.

So *I* pointed out that ACCORDING TO RIGHT-WINGERS LIKE YOU, CBS News isn't to be trusted.

Which you construed as me calling them a right-wing news source.

I said they've been called untrustworthy. You assume that "untrustworthy" equates to "right-wing". Sounds like a perception problem and a reading comprehension issue on your part, but it does strike me a bit odd that you'd associate right-wing news to "untrustworthy" and discredited. That's rather telling, it is.

But by all means, run away again. It's what you do best!

(Maybe BDN or JS or RL, or even O2B will make another appearance in your absence to take up your defense. It wouldn't surprise me a bit. )



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Monday, June 25, 2012 4:24 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Originally posted by CaveTroll:
Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
So all you guys believe this is about "a government agency trying to create a situation that will require more gun restrictions", eh? Wow. There's nothing more to say about such a theory...




It's not a theory. When gun advocates believed that, it was a theory. Now CBS reports that it has government documents stating that. If true, that means it moves from theory to reality.



I've been trained by the right never to believe CBS reports. I mean, there's every likelihood that their report is a forgery, right?


And yes, Troll, I'm still laughing at you as you try to use the sources you on the right have discounted as verification for your bullshit stories.


Quote:


Theory. Reality. You do understand the difference, right?

To say nothing about a government engaged in social engineering. Hmm, seems there was a movie a while back that had that very concept as a major plot point...



Did it involve invading Iraq to inflict democracy on them, 'cause that bit of social engineering was a fucking HOOT! How many U.S. "agents" got killed in that li'l clusterfuck? And how come you weren't crying over their deaths?




"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy




Here's my exact words where our newest Troll thinks I'm citing CBS as a right-wing news source.





"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Tuesday, June 26, 2012 5:45 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Oops, Issa admits he's got no evidence of a cover up:
Quote:

Representative Darrell Issa, the Republican leading the investigation into the Obama administration’s handling of the botched gun-smuggling investigation known as Operation Fast and Furious, appeared to contradict Speaker John A. Boehner on Sunday, saying there was no evidence that White House officials were involved in a cover-up.

The statements from Mr. Issa, the chairman of the House oversight committee, came after Mr. Boehner said last week that President Obama’s decision to assert executive privilege to shield Justice Department documents related to the operation was “an admission that the White House officials were involved in decisions that misled the Congress and covered up the truth.”

On “Fox News Sunday,” a clip of Mr. Boehner’s statement was played and Mr. Issa was asked in an interview whether his committee had evidence that White House officials had knowingly misled Congress about the case.

“No, we don’t,” Mr. Issa said. “And I hope they don’t get involved. I hope this stays at Justice. And I hope that Justice cooperates, because ultimately, Justice lied to the American people.”

The House is scheduled to vote on the committee’s contempt recommendation this week, Mr. Issa said. Democrats say Mr. Holder has handed over enough documents to answer the questions the committee is investigating. Republicans, meanwhile, contend that the administration is covering up how it misled Congress about the operation.

Also on the Fox program, the ranking Democrat on the oversight committee, Elijah E. Cummings, said Mr. Boehner should meet with Mr. Holder to resolve the dispute about the documents.

“I am calling on Speaker Boehner to come forth and show strong leadership — and I know he will — and sit down with the attorney general to resolve this matter,” Mr. Cummings said, adding that Mr. Holder had “turned over 7,600 documents, going through millions of e-mails, and has even given up what’s called internal deliberative documents.”

He went on: “These are the types of documents that attorney generals, over and over, and year after year, have held close to them and themselves in their offices. But he has done that.” http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/25/us/issa-says-no-evidence-of-white-ho
use-cover-up-in-guns-case.html
"proof" mind you, but no "evidence" whatsoever. So he's got nothing. But by gawd, he'll bust his ass to FIND something, even if it takes years--unless Romney gets elected, in which case he'll forget about the whole thing.
Quote:

The head of the House Oversight committee muted one of his invited witnesses on Wednesday for testifying in favor of tougher gun laws.

Rep. Darrell Issa (R-Calif.) said an ATF official's promotion of gun reform fell "outside the scope" of the hearing and "would not be considered valid testimony."

Appearing before the panel, Peter Forcelli, a special agent for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF), told lawmakers that straw purchasers – those who buy guns on behalf of others – should be hit with stiffer penalties to discourage gun trafficking. "I think perhaps a mandatory minimum one-year sentence might deter an individual from buying a gun," Forcelli said.

He was responding to a question from Rep. Carolyn Maloney (D-N.Y.), who said the current penalties are so weak that they discourage state prosecutors from pursuing straw-purchase cases. Forcelli agreed the current penalties do little to intimidate straw purchasers.

That brief exchange prompted Issa to intervene."We're not here to talk about proposed gun legislation," Issa said.

We're repeatedly asked whether Rep. Darrell Issa's (R-CA) hearings into a controversial ATF operation that allowed certain shipments of firearms to cross the border into Mexico would also address the weak statutory authority that law enforcement are forced to rely on to prevent trafficking to Mexican drug cartels. Today, we learned that law enforcement witnesses called by Issa are eager to discuss the issue, but the Oversight Committee chairman is willing to do everything in his power to stop that problem from coming to the forefront.

During this morning's hearing, Rep. Carolyn Maloney (D-NY) asked ATF Special Agent Peter Forcelli whether he has heard that district judges criticize the prosecutions of straw purchasers as "paper violations" because they are based on statutes that carry such low penalties. Forcelli replied, "I have, and I agree with it," and called for a one-year mandatory minimum sentence for such offenses to better deter purchasers. Issa immediately broke in to cut off this line of discussion, saying that the witness was testifying outside of the scope of the hearing.

After an extended exchange between Issa and Rep. Elijah Cummings (D-MD) in which Cummings said that Issa couldn't tell the witness what to testify to, Maloney explained why this line of questioning is crucial.
Quote:

ISSA: I'd only caution we're not here to talk about proposed gun legislation. That would be outside the scope of this hearing.

MALONEY: I wasn't discussing that. I was trying to figure out why the Justice Department and the [Inspector General] found that prosecutors often decline these gun cases. I want to know why they're declining them. And to quote from the testimony, one of you said because they believe it is difficult to obtain convictions in these violations.

Aren't Republicans supposed to be tough on crime? We're talking about guns being brought into Satan's backyard; or if you're not talking to Pat Buchanan---Mexico. Here's what this hearing is about:
Quote:

Issa had called the hearing to examine a controversial ATF operation – dubbed "Fast and Furious" – that put firearms into the hands of known drug smugglers in order to track them to Mexican cartel leaders.

Hundreds of those firearms have gone missing and several have been linked indirectly to the murder of border patrol agent Brian Terry, who was killed in a December firefight in Arizona. Terry's family submitted a statement to Wednesday's oversight hearing, calling for the prosecution of everyone – even government agents – involved in the tragedy.

Why aren't the penalties for bring guns into Mexico relevant to the investigation? I guess his NRA buddies wouldn't approve. http://earlkrugel.blogspot.com/2012/03/daryl-issa-simpleton-or-blither
ing.html
course they're not! Issa's purpose is to go after Holder/Obama, even if he's got no "evidence", not to actually look into what might actually deal with the issue of guns going to Mexico!

And there it is! THERE IT IS! Proof this whole thing is about taking away everyone's guns! "They" want to talk about REGULATION, not what the DOJ knew and when they knew it and how they, they, they... well, whatever they did, we don't want to talk about the actual PROBLEM and why F&F was created in the first place!! That's obviously "irrelevant"...



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Wednesday, June 27, 2012 7:12 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Awww, shown to be a bullshit fishing expedition, no righties here want to defend their buying into the original "conspiracy" theory? What a shock. I thought this was supposed to be "bigger than..." just about everything?


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