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REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS
The latest incivility
Friday, June 15, 2012 1:47 PM
NIKI2
Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...
Quote: President Barack Obama's angry response to a reporter who interrupted his Rose Garden remarks Friday was the latest salvo in what some political experts see as an era of incivility. Neil Munro, a White House correspondent for the Washington-based website The Daily Caller, asked the president about his administration's dramatic policy shift on immigration while the president was in the middle of delivering prepared remarks. "Excuse me, sir. It's not time for questions, sir," Obama fired back. "Not while I'm speaking." Munro later told CNN's Brianna Keilar, "I have to ask the questions you all won't ask," referring to the reporters gathered who regularly cover the White House.
Quote:It starts from the Superiority Syndrome: People acting as if they’re more important than a U.S. President — when they clearly are not. To fingers in the face. To people questioning his already established and proven citizenship. The incidents of disrespect towards President Obama continue. When people criticize Administration policy, that’s just politics. But several incidents directed at this President appear to find new lows. Of course, people can disagree with the President. But, why can’t people respect the Office of the Presidency? The very public nature of disrespect towards President Obama is noteworthy. Did Gov. Jan Brewer (R-AZ) have to conduct business with the President in front of reporters? Wasn’t there a better time and place? Would a visiting leader from a foreign country be greeted with a finger in his face by a Governor? If not, why would it happen to the leader of our own country? Could a hockey goalie have executed a quiet no-show for a White House invitation honoring his team? See Facebook for the answer on that one. It wasn’t the end of the world when Speaker John Boehner refused the President’s date to speak to a joint session on jobs in September 2011. And yes, the White House picked that date to steal attention from a GOP debate. But like so many moments of disrespect towards the 44th President: No one can find another example in American history where a U.S. President requested a date to address Congress and was refused. Can anyone find another incident like the Brewer one? That the list below can even be compiled is telling. 1. The birther fiasco (2009-2011). No evidence. No proof. No documentation. But the story traveled on for years. Yes, Hawaii is part of the United States of America. 2. “You lie” (Sept. 2009). That any individual — no less a member of Congress watching a U.S. President during a joint session on live national television — is so lacking in self control that this moment was made possible is incredible — even in an age of incivility. Remember this happened only nine months into Obama’s presidency and is another “we can’t remember that ever happening ever before” moment. Close your eyes and pretend Rep. Maxine Waters was Wilson doing this to President Bush and image the reaction. 3. Signs of the Tea Party (July 2010) and Naked Racism (April 2011). Anyone remember California GOP official Marilyn Davenport’s racist e-mail? Did she ever resign for that? I remember all the criticism of the NAACP – particularly from Black Republicans — for their “Tea Party resolution” of 2010. Where was that indignation regarding what can be viewed in this video? Click here. 4. Donald “unchecked ego” Trump inflames birther fiasco, media assists (April 2011). The mouth of Donald Trump is a powerful thing when joined with a 24-hour cable news cycle desperate for viewers. That news organizations invited Trump on the air unchallenged with zero proof of what he was saying speaks volumes on the state of journalism. That Trump was completely comfortable demanding that a U.S. President “show him his papers” displays a superiority complex that exists among those who can’t accept someone they view as “lesser” in a position of power over them. 4. Deadbeat dad and probable one-termer thinks his presence before the President actually matters and needs to tell everyone (Sept 2011). The disrespect isn’t that probable one term Congressman Joe Walsh (R-IL) wouldn’t attend the President’s Sept. 8 speech. The disrespect is that Rep. Walsh actually believed that everyone knowing he wasn’t attending was important. That he needed to announce he would not attend on national television, as if anyone cared, was yet another delusional superiority episode. That proudly showing public disrespect towards the President is a winning strategy in some political circles reveals a lot. 5. Newt Gingrich’s “Kenyan anti-colonial behavior” comment (Sept 2010). Even Washington Post columnist and conservative thinker George Will slammed this attempt to define the President as “foreign.” Never mind the facts: President Obama wasn’t reared by his father in Kenya with whom he spent only a month of his 50 years on this earth. The strategy to define the President as a “foreign” or “alien” being was started by Sarah Palin in 2008. 6. One of the underlying premises of disrespect towards the President is that he can be ordered around and dictated to like he’s Tipi the laundry boy. The presumption that a U.S. President can be ordered around is a new phenomenon that appears to have gotten underway around January 2009. From big mouth Congressmen to millionaires with nothing to do, you name it — they all inherently believe they can order President Obama around. At least Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is an actual leader of something 7. Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer puts her finger in the President’s face (January 2012). The photo speaks for itself. Of course there are strong political disagreements between President Obama and Gov. Brewer. But is it just possible there was a better time and place for this conversation? Brewer said she felt “a little threatened” by President Obama. Please. 8. GOP House, prompted by Tea Party — refuses to raise debt ceiling (Aug 2011). Sounds like this was just hardball politics right? Let’s review the facts: The debt ceiling had been raised 69 times since 1962 without incident. Seven times during Bush II and 18 times during Reagan. Suddenly, with President Obama, a shiny new precedent is set with regard to raising the debt ceiling. Another never before seen incident is born. 9. Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) Publicly Announces His Top Political Priority (Dec 2010). McConnell wants the President out of office? No news there, but, wait, there’s more to it. “Our top political priority over the next two years should be to deny President Obama a second term,” Sen. McConnell told the Heritage Foundation. Of course the Senate Republican Leader doesn’t want the President to be re-elected. But what’s with the public announcement? In July 2010 McConnell acknowledged his single most important political goal: President Obama being a one-term President. Again: In public and on national television. 10. Speaker Boehner refuses speech date request (September 2011). No it is not the end of the world. Of course, the White House intentionally wanted to step on a GOP debate that same night. But, this is yet another first in American history. Once again, no one can find another instance where a President of the United States requested a date to address Congress and was refused.
Friday, June 15, 2012 1:59 PM
ANTHONYT
Freedom is Important because People are Important
Friday, June 15, 2012 2:07 PM
6IXSTRINGJACK
Friday, June 15, 2012 2:10 PM
NEWOLDBROWNCOAT
Friday, June 15, 2012 3:05 PM
Quote:The journalist who sparked a ruckus inside the Beltway and on Twitter by interrupting President Barack Obama's formal remarks on immigration wants the world to know it was all a big misunderstanding. The Daily Caller's Neil Munro implausibly claims that he never meant to cut off the president and thought he was finished speaking. "I timed the question believing the president was closing his remarks, because naturally I have no intention of interrupting the President of the United States," But reporters near Munro during the outburst said, well, not so much to the whole "didn't mean to interrupt" the president thing. Many took to Twitter to share their doubts."I was two people over from Neil Munro. No one thought the president was wrapping up. I give that statement a great big Cow Pie Award," Brianna Keilar of CNN said on Twitter. "I was standing right behind Munro in the Rose Garden," said Todd Zwillich, Washington correspondent for The Takeaway from Public Radio International, on Twitter. "Idea he 'mistimed' his questions isn't credible. He purposely interrupted." "Munro told other reporters after Obama's statement, 'I'm asking questions. Because you people won't,'" Zwillich tweeted. The official White House transcript of the event records that, after a visibly irritated Obama told Munro "Excuse me, sir. It's not time for questions, sir," the journalist replied: "No, you have to take questions." "Not while I'm speaking," the president replied. At the end of his remarks, Obama directed some of his remarks to Munro, who ultimately had the last word — or at least the last unanswered shouted question: "What about American workers who are unemployed while you import foreigners?" Munro breached a longstanding — but unwritten — rule among White House correspondents: Don't interrupt the president's formal remarks. It is common for White House aides to tell reporters that there will be no questions at a given public event. And it is routine for those reporters to ignore that admonition and call out a question anyway, though always after the president is finished speaking. Presidents typically overlook those queries, smile, wave, and repeat "thank you" before leaving or they let their aides try to sheep-dog the press away. Reporters don't blink when hecklers interrupt the president at campaign events, which tend to be rowdier, or cut him off in a debate setting, when the moderator's job is often to impose discipline. And press conference exchanges can get testy. Formal events, though, traditionally invite more decorum. http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/reporter-interrupted-obama-thought-finished-220343830.html WAS a formal Rose Garden announcement. This wasn't just a reporter doing his job. He remarks make it patently obvious that he was virtually heckling the President. Anthony, do you REALLY believe his interrupting Obama would bring about an answer to whatever he was asking (and if it was the above question, it's not even a QUESTION, obviously, it's heckling)? There was no reason whatsoever for the interruption--the reporter isn't stupid, he knows full well hollering out a question like that wouldn't get an answer, he did it for show. As to Presidents responding to questions,Quote:Opportunities to question the president are not that frequent. At this point in his presidency, Obama has had 72 total press conferences, including 31 by himself (without, for example, another world leader present), according to statistics compiled by Martha Joynt Kumar, a presidency scholar at Towson University. At a comparable point in his presidency, George W. Bush had had 79 total press conferences, 14 of those solo.So how come nobody felt the need to interrupt Bush, since they've had about the same nuber of press conferences, and Obama has faced the press alone more often? He seems to be more willing to answer questions from interviewers than many:Quote:Obama prefers interviews: At the end of March, he had conducted 441. At similar points in their presidencies, George W. Bush had sat for 144, Clinton 178, George H. W. Bush 222, and Reagan 185.So why the need to heckle him? And the Daily Caller knew that's exactly what he did...note their choice of wording: "The Daily Caller's publisher, Neil Patel: Munro 'in no way meant to heckle the President of the United States.'" We know why, and it has nothing to do with the fourth estate and Presidents. I Googled; there's no story of any reporter ever interrupting Bush. It's just obviously okay to behave more disrespectfully toward Obama...and I think I know the reason why. Take the first Black man to achieve the Presidency, toss in a cup of an entire Congressional party colluding to bring him down THE VERY DAY HE'S INAUGURATED, add a heaping spoonful of right-wing politicians constantly talking about him being the "other" (and disrespecting him themselves), garnish with blatant disrespect almost daily from the FauxNews "professionals", and garnish with periodic Malkin/Bachmann/Limbaugh-type idiocy, and voila! A President unworthy of respecting...and it never mattered one whit what he did or didn't DO or SAY. It works for them, period.
Quote:Opportunities to question the president are not that frequent. At this point in his presidency, Obama has had 72 total press conferences, including 31 by himself (without, for example, another world leader present), according to statistics compiled by Martha Joynt Kumar, a presidency scholar at Towson University. At a comparable point in his presidency, George W. Bush had had 79 total press conferences, 14 of those solo.
Quote:Obama prefers interviews: At the end of March, he had conducted 441. At similar points in their presidencies, George W. Bush had sat for 144, Clinton 178, George H. W. Bush 222, and Reagan 185.
Friday, June 15, 2012 3:13 PM
GEEZER
Keep the Shiny side up
Friday, June 15, 2012 3:20 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: So how come nobody felt the need to interrupt Bush, since they've had about the same nuber of press conferences, and Obama has faced the press alone more often?
Friday, June 15, 2012 3:27 PM
Quote:there's no story of any reporter ever interrupting Bush.
Friday, June 15, 2012 3:28 PM
Quote:GWB commanded respect.
Friday, June 15, 2012 3:30 PM
Friday, June 15, 2012 3:43 PM
Quote:Originally posted by ANTHONYT: Quote:GWB commanded respect. Hello, What nonsense. I hope you are deep in your weekly allotment of 100 beers to make such a statement. --Anthony
Friday, June 15, 2012 3:50 PM
Friday, June 15, 2012 3:55 PM
Quote:If you think about it, that shows obviously that this guy wasn't really looking for an answer to his question (does anyone even know what the question was?); he was making a statement. For no good purpose.
Friday, June 15, 2012 4:03 PM
CHRISISALL
Quote:Seriously... it was like watching the most embarrassing moments of SNL over 35 years all rolled into one.
Quote:I understand the purity of your thinking sometimes--not a negative, you've struck me as a very..."theoretically pure" is the closest I can come. I mean someone who sees what should be and wants that to happen, and gives no quarter. But the fact is that if we don't live within the covenant of what IS, we get nowhere. There are societal understandings in everything we do every day, and when we break them, it stands out. If we want notoriety, or attention, for whatever reason, we do something to stand out, as this guy did. But if we ALL did such things, there would be nothing but chaos.
Quote:So which is better: Living within the constructs of societal understanding and getting to ask your question eventually, or standing out and not being called on in future (or not even being allowed in with the press)?
Friday, June 15, 2012 4:07 PM
Quote:This wasn't a tow-the-line endorsement of that monster, Anthony. It was a factual statement that I was actually afraid of the man and his administration.
Friday, June 15, 2012 4:13 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: Quote:Seriously... it was like watching the most embarrassing moments of SNL over 35 years all rolled into one.Wow...you really ARE "out there" in over-the-top land! It was that big a deal to you? Wow... ANY question becomes irrelevant when that method is employed. Of course the question is a valid one, that's beside the point. The way he asked it guaranteed it would get no answer and he knew that. It's not deflecting to say that, for example, if a bunch of people asked a valid question of virtually ANY politician or President by interrupting his speaking, he would have stopped to politely answer their question! A few have, in small venues or campaign stops, but very few. I maintain: He didn't ask the question, however valid it might be, to get an answer. Period. Enuff already, I'm off to dinner. ] What method is that Niki? Spontaneity? Why should we expect anything less of our "commander and chiefs" to be able to do "improv" better than "Who's Line is it Anyway?" Enough about how he is so afraid to say ANYTHING off prompter without his "advisors" approving it..... He's NOT an Alpha Male. Barack Obama is a Beta Male. I wouldn't be at all surprised if he swallowed his wife's strapon and took it up his ass behind closed doors (And no matter how true this may be, I'm protected legally for saying this as a parody, before you haters try anything). Barack is Jimmy Carter's Bitch I'm glad Jimmy is still alive, because as much as a bitch as he was and still may be, there is some "behind the scenes" Carter mentality going on here that lets him know he wasn't the weakest link in his lifetime.
Friday, June 15, 2012 4:43 PM
Friday, June 15, 2012 6:47 PM
KWICKO
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)
Quote:Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK: I know you won't agree with this Niki, but even though I hated bush as much as I hate Obama, GWB commanded respect. Obama is a wounded Beta Male in way over his head. A Junior politician with no military or financial background. He would have probably been Mayor of Chicago by now, and been very successful at that, but he chose the presidency as his job. And now he's proven to us all how bad he's failed at it.
Saturday, June 16, 2012 2:20 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: For one thing, everyone makes fun of politicians and Presidents, that's a time-honored tradition which has nothing to do with someone being deliberately disrespectful TO THE PRESIDENT'S FACE.
Saturday, June 16, 2012 3:32 AM
AURAPTOR
America loves a winner!
Saturday, June 16, 2012 4:40 AM
Saturday, June 16, 2012 5:50 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Geezer: Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: For one thing, everyone makes fun of politicians and Presidents, that's a time-honored tradition which has nothing to do with someone being deliberately disrespectful TO THE PRESIDENT'S FACE. Then you'll remove all the stuff above where someone is not being DELIBERATELY DISRESPECTFUL TO THE PRESIDENT'S FACE, perhaps? Actually, in this age of instant communication and media, you'd think that insult would be insult, whether in person or spread all over by electronic means. More people hear Bill Maher, for example, insult Bush or Romney than ever heard this reporter interupt Pres. Obama. Guess that including TV and the internet in your definition of "disrespectful" would leave you with nothing to post.
Quote: ETA: And just out of curiosity, if you met Gov. Romney, would you be polite to him, or insult him as you regularly do here? EIther way, you'd either be a hypocrite, or incivil.
Saturday, June 16, 2012 10:52 AM
Quote:A reporter from a right-wing media outlet heckled President Obama -- not once, but twice -- on Friday as he was unveiling a new immigration policy. If this shocks you, you haven't been paying attention. This is simply the latest page from the right's playbook to delegitimize Barack Obama's presidency. Some may dismiss it as an isolated incident, but it's not. It goes much deeper. Believe me, I know hecklers -- I'm a stand-up comedian. If someone heckles me once, it can be a mistake: too many drinks, overcome by emotion, etc. But when you heckle twice, you have an agenda. Neil Munro, the Irish born reporter who heckled President Obama, was not just from some random publication. He works for The Daily Caller, a right-wing website whose editor-in-chief is the bow-tie wearing Tucker Carlson. (You may recall Carlson as the guy who famously sparred with — and was taken down by -- Jon Stewart on CNN years ago.) Munro's first heckle occurred while President Obama was in midsentence, with Munro yelling out: "Why do you favor foreigners over Americans?" Obama responded: "Excuse me, sir, but it's not time for questions." Munro countered: "Are you going to take questions?" To which the president answered: "Not while I'm speaking." Later, Munro again interrupted the president in midstatement. Obama kept his cool; he simply finished his statement. If I had been president, I would have deported Munro back to his country of origin. A quick perusal of Munro's Twitter feed reveals he does not hide his contempt for President Obama. His tweets range from claims that Obama is using NASCAR and country music to attract "white non-college voters," to slams of Michelle Obama, to allegations that Obama is racially discriminating against blacks in his White House hiring practices. But this is all not about Munro -- he is just a small cog in the right's campaign to diminish the legitimacy of Obama's presidency. I'm not talking about people disagreeing with policies. I mean specifically the campaign to paint Barack Obama as less than American -- as an "other"--as someone whose presidency is not entitled to the same respect as that of the presidents who came before him. This crusade began in the days before Barack Obama was even sworn in as president. Back then, Rush Limbaugh, the radio host and self-described "entertainer," announced on his show that he hoped Obama would fail as president. Obama had not even made his first decision as president. The campaign has continued with the right's birther movement contending that Obama was not born in the United States and hence should not be president. Some, like evangelical leader Franklin Graham, have suggested that Obama is a Muslim (he is a Christian), which to many on the right would mean he's not a "real" American. We have seen Republican Rep. Joe Wilson yell out at President Obama, "You lie" while Obama addressed a joint session of Congress in 2009. Can anyone remember the last time a U.S. president was called a liar in a joint session of Congress? I can't. Then there was Republican Rep. Joe Walsh, who last July called on President Obama to "quit lying" in regards to the debt ceiling debate. Can anyone remember something like this with previous presidents? I can't either. And, of course, there's Donald Trump, not only periodically renewing the "birther" fabrication, but also demanding to see President Obama's college grades, implying he doesn't think Obama is intellectually qualified to be president. So you see, Munro is just doing his tiny part. And no doubt some on the right will exalt him for his "courage." His boss, Tucker Carlson, defended him by saying that no one was upset when then-ABC reporter Sam Donaldson heckled President Reagan. But Fox News' Chris Wallace recalled today that when he was a White House correspondent with Donaldson during the Reagan administration, no one ever heckled the president. So, yet another lie. But the truth doesn't matter to the far right. It's not about policy or what is good for the United States of America. It's about delegitimizing President Obama for political gain. In the coming months, as we get closer to Election Day, you may see many more of these kinds of attacks. While they may disgust you, they should never surprise you. It's all in the playbook. http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/15/opinion/obeidallah-heckle-obama/index.html?hpt=hp_bn7 about sums it up. It WASN'T a "legitimate question" being asked by a journalist, he DIDN'T think Obama had finished speaking, and he obviously DID have an agenda. Nothing new there.
Saturday, June 16, 2012 5:10 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Kwicko: Quote:Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK: I know you won't agree with this Niki, but even though I hated bush as much as I hate Obama, GWB commanded respect. Obama is a wounded Beta Male in way over his head. A Junior politician with no military or financial background. He would have probably been Mayor of Chicago by now, and been very successful at that, but he chose the presidency as his job. And now he's proven to us all how bad he's failed at it. Your ignorance is boundless, Jack. What was GWB's political experience? What was his military or financial background? His experience in politics was as governor of Texas. That means that he was tied with the governor of North Dakota in terms of how much power and influence he wielded - tied for 49th in the nation in terms of least power! He wasn't the most powerful governor in the nation, in other words. Hell, he wasn't the most powerful politician in Texas. Because of the way Reconstruction was forced upon Texas, and governors were assigned by Washington D.C., the legislature took it upon themselves to castrate the office, putting all the real power in two offices within the state: Lieutenant Governor and Railroad Commissioner. Seriously, Railroad Commissioner. Why is that post so powerful? Well, that's the guy who decides what moves in Texas, how it moves, where it goes, and when, and how much. What kind of things? Well, cattle for one. But more importantly, OIL. Bush was an oilman once, allegedly. He was one of the few who went to Midland during the oil boom and went broke doing it. That takes a special talent. Military background? Hardly. He was part of a Champagne Company in the Guard, virtually guaranteed to never see service, and Shrub couldn't even complete that light duty! Financial background? Well, his dad had to bail out his brother Neil's savings and loan with billions of taxpayer dollars... Hey, that's kind of a family tradition of bailing out banks, isn't it? If you say he commanded respect, you're a dolt. He commanded nothing but ridicule.
Sunday, June 17, 2012 8:13 PM
RIONAEIRE
Beir bua agus beannacht
Monday, June 18, 2012 4:42 AM
CAVETROLL
Monday, June 18, 2012 5:10 AM
Monday, June 18, 2012 5:14 AM
Quote: I wonder where all this questioning of civility will lead? Is this the first step towards censorship?
Monday, June 18, 2012 6:31 AM
Quote: ...In the last half of 2011, U.S. agencies asked Google to remove 6,192 individual pieces of content from its search results, blog posts or archives of online videos, according to the report. That's up 718% compared with the 757 such items that U.S. agencies asked Google to remove in the six months prior. Fighting the great firewall Overall, Google received 187 requests from United States law enforcement agencies and courts to remove content from its Web properties from July to December, up 103% from the 92 requests the Mountain View, California, company received in the previous reporting period. In one incident cited in the report, a U.S. law enforcement agency asked Google to take down a blog that "allegedly defamed a law enforcement official in a personal capacity." The company did not comply with that request. In another, a separate law enforcement group asked Google to take down 1,400 YouTube videos (Google owns YouTube) because of "alleged harassment."...
Monday, June 18, 2012 6:46 AM
Quote:The gun is implied because it is the government.
Quote:Chilling that the US government, or various organs thereof, thinks that it can directly censor free speech.
Monday, June 18, 2012 9:09 AM
Quote:Originally posted by RionaEire: I'm somewhere between Niki and Anthony. I agree with Niki that there's a difference between to-your-face disrespect and political blogging etc. But I agree with Anthony that a reporter technically does have the freedom to ask a question, of whatever content if its relevent to what's going on. I assume you're my pal until you let me know otherwise. "A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya.
Monday, June 18, 2012 10:09 AM
BYTEMITE
Monday, June 18, 2012 10:42 AM
Quote:Originally posted by BYTEMITE: I hate and disrespect all politicians equally. But I also dislike goldfish poop reporters, and corrupt corporate cronyism, and sneaky lying warmongers. In short, screw all of it and screw all of them. None of these people are worth wasting your time on, and none of them are going to make anyone's life better but their own.
Wednesday, June 20, 2012 6:48 AM
Quote:No White House reporter believes that Munro thought the President was finished speaking four minutes into his remarks, and that cowardly attempt to save his day-pass doesn’t explain his subsequent interruptions. The stunt was obviously premeditated, and probably sanctioned, if not thought up by, Tucker Carlson If we all just decided to yell out a question whenever we felt strongly about it, the President would never get through a single set of remarks, as evidenced by the post-press conference free-for-alls that Munro cites in his defense. This isn’t just a White House protocol, it’s part of being a professional reporter. See how long you’d stay on the Romney bus doing that. If you want to be some kind of heckling ambush reporter, that’s fine, but then you need to find your own way within earshot of the President. Good luck with that. http://www.mediaite.com/online/the-fundamental-problem-with-daily-callers-neil-munro-heckling-president-obama/
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