Gay marriage debate sparks Russian court spat by Niki2

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Gay marriage debate sparks Russian court spat

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Thursday, August 27, 2009 06:27
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Wednesday, August 26, 2009 6:37 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Lesbian couple seeks legal recognition, while outside court they lock lips

MOSCOW - The debate over whether to allow a lesbian couple to marry in Russia sparked an angry exchange inside a Moscow courtroom Wednesday, while outside the women locked lips to protest a holdup in proceedings.

Homosexuality has been decriminalized in Russia but there is little support for gay rights.

The court postponed hearing a complaint from the gay couple over a refusal to let them marry. Judge Natalya Zhuravlyova said the reason for the postponement was the couple's "disrespectful" failure to appear in court.

The couple, Irina Fedotova-Fet and Irina Shipitko, arrived 10 minutes after the hearing ended and kissed for the cameras. They said they had been held up in traffic.

The authorities "are using any excuse" to obstruct their quest for matrimonial recognition, Shipitko said.

"There is enough homophobia in this country. We are no different from any other couple," she said.

Lawyer: Court session is a ‘disgrace’
Earlier in the courtroom, lawyer Nikolai Alexeyev protested the postponement, telling the judge "the way you conduct a hearing is a disgrace."

Alexeyev protested the new date, Sept. 9, saying he couldn't make it. The judge ignored Alexeyev, asking him instead to sign a court document setting the new date.

"I won't be signing that. It's a disgrace, your court session. A big disgrace," Alexeyev said.

Alexeyev — also Russia's most prominent gay rights activist and an organizer of gay pride parades — later told The Associated Press that the judge's attitude reflected the official stance toward gays in Russia — "intolerant."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32565533/ns/world_news-europe/#storyContin
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Wednesday, August 26, 2009 6:56 AM

BYTEMITE

Be interesting to know exactly where all this intolerance comes from. I know Russia has a lot of Orthodox Christianity, but it can't be just religion, can it? Most of these public officials had to have raised before the Soviet Union fell, didn't they? Wasn't there something in Marxism about the "opiates of the masses?"

How do these intolerances stick around when they're cut off from the source? If the intolerances remain, does this mean there is another source?

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Wednesday, August 26, 2009 6:58 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

I think it has to do with differences in cultures. Russian culture is pretty intolerant of "different", and while I think the religiosity certainly has something to do with it, I think it's as much about a closed society where ignorance of such things prevails as opposed to a society like ours which at least tries to achive "equality". JMHO

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Wednesday, August 26, 2009 4:32 PM

DREAMTROVE

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Wednesday, August 26, 2009 4:46 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

I wonder if some of the intolerance is left over from the bad old days of Stalin and his purges. I don't know if he actively purged homosexuals, but dude was as serious about cleansing his country of what he called "undesirables" as Hitler was. This included anyone whom he ever even THOUGHT might have disagreed with him, anyone who didn't seem to take orders quite quickly enough, or maybe took them in a way that Stalin didn't like, millions and millions of Jews, etc. I wouldn't think it would be out of the question that he might have demonized homosexuals, and some of that attitude may still be prevalent.

What I've never been able to figure out is, as long as it's between consenting adults, who cares?

Mike

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Thursday, August 27, 2009 6:05 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

The old saw works: What we don't understand, we fear; what we fear, we hate; what we hate, we try to destroy. Human nature.

Same has been true of anything and everything outside the societal "norm" in every civilization throughout history. The ones who hate are the ones either manipulated into that hate via religion (which shouldn't be a problem in Russia) or just react out of ignorance and unfamiliarity. People who get to know homosexuals and bisexuals (of which I am one) personally, without knowing their sexual orientation, are more likely to accept. I'm pretty sure your hypothesis is valid, and has simply continued through time because it hasn't been sufficiently challenged and people haven't been sufficiently educated.

If America, a supposedly tolerant, free society, is still having so much trouble with sexual orientation outside the "norm", it shouldn't be surprising that a culture rooted in propaganda and strict adherence to accepted societal custom.

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Thursday, August 27, 2009 6:27 AM

AGENTROUKA

I don't think you can pin this necessarily on Stalin.

Most modern societies were pretty intolerant of homosexuality until fairly recently, historically speaking.

Legal equality is STILL a big controversy in many supposedly free, diverse and tolerant countries. Things like gay marriage, gay adoption... look how they've been discussed even of this board.

Russia's very authoritarian and socially... conservativism? Traditionalism? What do you call that? Either way, I think there is a mix between wide-spread Russian social values and a history of dictatorial government at work here that makes it particularly difficult for Russian homosexuals to gain acceptance and legal equality. Meaning corrupt judges and a narrow-minded population.

I base my assumptions about the Russian mentality on my Russian mother's family as well as Russians I have personally known. I may be off there, but media representation seems to confirm this in my eyes.

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