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REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS
X-MEN 3 and mediocritocracy (Extremely Spoilerific)
Monday, June 5, 2006 10:03 AM
HKCAVALIER
Monday, June 5, 2006 7:22 PM
MAMASAID
Tuesday, June 6, 2006 4:14 AM
JOHNTHETHEATREFREAK
Tuesday, June 6, 2006 4:38 AM
CHRISISALL
Quote:Originally posted by HKCavalier: What I'm seeing is a parallel with our real world leaders and how they respond to evolving situations with eronious fears and then jump to thoughtless conclusions. Our representatives meddle and meddle and suppress and suppress and control and control and the Dark Pheonix grows and grows and grows.
Tuesday, June 6, 2006 5:50 AM
GROUNDED
Quote:Originally posted by HKCavalier: The film has an ugly anti-feminine subtext.
Quote:Originally posted by HKCavalier: Jean, the Goddess incarnate must be destroyed, period.
Quote:Originally posted by HKCavalier: Rogue, fearful of her own potential, like a modern Guinevere, chooses subserviance and powerlessness to achieve sexual fulfillment.
Quote:Originally posted by HKCavalier: And Storm, another veritable Goddess in our midst, must wash her own brain until she spouts platitudes like a mutant Hilary Clinton.
Tuesday, June 6, 2006 8:37 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Grounded: ...if Jean and Rogue were male characters, no one would be complaining that the film had an ugly anti-masculine subtext... ;)
Quote:Quote:Originally posted by HKCavalier: Jean, the Goddess incarnate must be destroyed, period. I don't think this has anything to do with her gender. I mean Jean herself begs Logan to kill her - it's not as though the decision is being forced on her.
Quote:Quote:Originally posted by HKCavalier: Rogue, fearful of her own potential, like a modern Guinevere, chooses subserviance and powerlessness to achieve sexual fulfillment. I'm not quite sure how hurting someone by touching them can be considered 'potential'.
Quote:Furthermore, I think you could make a good case for Rogue's decision to take the cure as being a strong one. She obviously understands that doing so will make her unpopular with other mutants, but she does so anyway because it's what she wants.
Tuesday, June 6, 2006 10:22 AM
Quote:Originally posted by HKCavalier: Grounded, please, this isn't logic you're using.
Quote:Originally posted by HKCavalier: You imply a symetrical relationship between the sexes when there isn't one in this context. The people in charge of this movie, the writers, producers, director of this film are predominantly men. That the choice was made to disempower these three key female characters in the way they were disempowered is consistent with a centuries old anti-feminine tendency.
Quote:Originally posted by HKCavalier: Grounded, again you're dropping crucial cultural context. Of course it has everything to do with her gender. Her first act in the film is to consume Cyclops, her ostensible beloved, alive. He believes he is on the verge of sexual gratification and instead the woman devours him. The fear of castration that this reflects does not have an opposite number in the female psyche. Certainly women fear violence from men, but they don't have to dream up vaginas dentatae to do it.
Quote:Originally posted by HKCavalier: And please, I'm making a point about the male creators of this fantasy. That they construct a female character that begs for her own anihilation is entirely my point. So really it is exactly "as though" the decision were forced on her. And why does she beg for this anihilation? Her only unique crime is that she is too powerful. Hmmmmm.
Tuesday, June 6, 2006 10:34 AM
Quote:Originally posted by HKCavalier: Most people don't want a friend to commit suicide either, so are you saying that the person who kills herself anyway is showing strength of character?
Quote:Originally posted by HKCavalier: Taking the cure, violates Rogue's nature. She's got a tough row to hoe, no argument there, but perminently crippling her power is not a solution unless she has no love or regard for her self.
Tuesday, June 6, 2006 10:52 AM
DESKTOPHIPPIE
Quote: If "hurting someone by touching them" where Rogue's only power, you would be correct. But it ain't. For instance, you know, she can touch Wolverine. I'm sure she would be able to touch Jean Grey without troubling Jean too much. Beyond all that though, I don't know how much of a victim of her mutation Rogue necessarily is. These people all live in a world full of mysterious inexplicable powers that never change. That's not a real world. The writers of these worlds immagine all sorts of physical mutations, but they don't/can't immagine spiritual mutation. As long as Rogue believes herself helpless in the face of her mutation, as long as she only makes decisions out of fear, she is lost. As long as she has to destroy a part of herself in order to be happy, she is living a lie.
Tuesday, June 6, 2006 12:31 PM
Quote:Originally posted by DesktopHippie: That being said, the Jean storyline in the movie was an awful mishmash cobbled together to avoid the whole Shi'ar, alien Phoenix force stuff, which granted would have swamped the movie completely. Unless they got Joss to write it. The movie didn't do the character Jean justice.
Tuesday, June 6, 2006 7:35 PM
FREMDFIRMA
Wednesday, June 7, 2006 8:05 AM
CHRISMOORHEAD
Quote:Grounded, please, this isn't logic you're using. You imply a symetrical relationship between the sexes when there isn't one in this context. The people in charge of this movie, the writers, producers, director of this film are predominantly men. That the choice was made to disempower these three key female characters in the way they were disempowered is consistent with a centuries old anti-feminine tendency. Simply changing the gender of these three characters would not invert the situation unless you also changed Stan Lee's sex, the sex of the director, writers, producers--and for that matter, the President of the United States, Jesus, God, etc. Any discussion of discrimination must take context into account.
Wednesday, June 7, 2006 8:35 AM
STORYMARK
Wednesday, June 7, 2006 8:48 AM
Wednesday, June 7, 2006 9:55 AM
Wednesday, June 7, 2006 4:19 PM
KHYRON
Quote:Originally posted by HKCavalier: There's a chance for healing here, but neither of them see it. She merely succeeds in suppressing her darkness long enough so he can murder her. /golfclap
Thursday, June 8, 2006 3:34 AM
DEEPGIRL187
Thursday, June 8, 2006 5:22 AM
Quote:Originally posted by deepgirl187: Just a quick note Khyron, Professor X was actually the one that set up the blocks. This provoked the argument between him and Wolverine about him having no right to control her in that manner. It was also one the reasons that she killed him.
Thursday, June 8, 2006 6:22 AM
Thursday, June 8, 2006 6:34 AM
Sunday, June 11, 2006 3:16 PM
Sunday, June 11, 2006 3:59 PM
PIRATEJENNY
Sunday, June 11, 2006 4:13 PM
Quote:locked away, not he. I'm sure his plan would have been to try to work with her dark side while she was younger, but the mental blocks she installed were too powerful. He kept her sedated after they found her again because he knew how destructive her dark side could be and that he couldn't fight that side of her and win. The disappearance of Scott probably suggested to him that something bad happened and that Phoenix possibly was that bad thing. I don't think Wolverine was being visionary at all, and by keeping her sedated Prof X did exactly the right thing, namely try to suppress an evil he knew shouldn't be unleashed and possibly couldn't be beaten.
Sunday, June 11, 2006 4:23 PM
Quote:Originally posted by piratejenny: that the power of women is something to be feared and ,
Sunday, June 11, 2006 10:54 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Khyron: Quote:Originally posted by piratejenny: that the power of women is something to be feared and , It is if women can't control that power and it presents a mortal danger to others. Same goes for men. Other people can occasionally be useful, especially as minions. I want lots of minions.
Monday, June 12, 2006 11:50 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Storymark: That's taking a Big leap to justify Scott's death as self-defense.
Monday, June 12, 2006 12:15 PM
SOUPCATCHER
Monday, June 12, 2006 4:01 PM
STILLFLYIN
Monday, June 12, 2006 4:17 PM
Quote:Originally posted by SoupCatcher: If that's correct, than I have a big problem with a class 4 trying to dictate to a class 5 how they should use their powers. How would they know?
Monday, June 12, 2006 5:57 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Khyron: See where I'm going with this?
Monday, June 12, 2006 6:55 PM
REAVERMAN
Quote:Originally posted by piratejenny: I'm talking about the historical suppression of women, and female energy.
Quote:The Power of women have been feared for so long, men and the male energy force fear it.
Quote:men I think subconsiously do feel that they will be consumed by female energy.? Jean consuming cyclops was a perfect metaphor for that particular fear, Hacaliver was right in his assesment I think !!There is a great imbalance in the world to much male energy and not enough female engery in power to conteract it.
Quote:if there has to be an imbalance , it would be better if it was on our side
Monday, June 12, 2006 8:55 PM
Quote:Female energy? WTH is that?
Quote:No, what men, like women, fear is change. Not some mystical gender based energy. Its as simple as this: In nature, Men ruled the tribes because men were stronger, and in nature, might makes right , so the strong led, protected, fought, etc. Over time, civilizations developed and cultures evolved around the prehistoric idea that Men should do the ruling and women should do the housework and such. These ideas became so ingrained in all cultures, that we cling to them, even when they are obsolete, because we dont want to change.
Quote: Again with the male/female energy. Isn't it more than a tad sexist of you to say that there are energies that define every man or every woman? As for female energy being all peaceful, loving, and nurturing and the like, you have obviously never met anyone like my Mother. Claiming that male energy is destructive and agressive is a foolish generalization as well. I know plenty of men that work hard for peace and sanity.
Quote:et again, another foolish statement. ANY inequality is bad and WILL lead to supression. If women take over as completely as men have, the first thought would be that women are better and should have special priveledges. The simple fact is that women are human too, and have the same vulerability to greed and powerlust. What needs to happen is complete gender equality. Both sides having equal voice to force people to compromise. You're welcome on my boat. God ain't.
Tuesday, June 13, 2006 4:35 AM
CYBERSNARK
Quote:Originally posted by piratejenny: Even if you look at indigenious tribes now, you'll see the women doing all the work ,..while the men hunt
Wednesday, June 14, 2006 8:14 AM
DANFAN
Wednesday, June 14, 2006 8:23 AM
Wednesday, June 14, 2006 11:14 AM
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