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Originally posted by THG:
Not good...

World War 3 Could Be TWO YEARS Away

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Originally posted by THG:
He often does...

T

WOW: Jon Stewart CALLED IT

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

I hope I've explained my POV on tariffs, and also expressed your concerns adequately.

Next topic?

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
You got my answer in the "legitimate concerns" thread.

This thread is not a legitimate discussion thread bc it presupposes a conclusion and is framed too divisively.

If you won't retitle this thread, I'll start a new one, OK?

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

I hope I've explained my POV on tariffs, and also expressed your concerns adequately.
Next topic?

THGR:

Yes, you explained your point clearly. It was void of the understanding that in the 1700 18 hundreds, it took 6 weeks to 2 months for a ship to come from Europe. Today it takes less than a week. The ships were the size of today's school buses and a cargo ship today carries 28 tons. And you ignore the constitution for your personal opinion.

SIGNY:

Just bc international trade is easier doesn't make it a GOOD thing.

Britain had a world-straddling empire and world-straddling trade that filled their nations coffers and made the British pound THE reserve currency for centuries.

But when war came and trade routes were cut, who came to Britain's rescue?

Us

And what made Anerica strong?

Native production.

We are blessed with two oceans and abundant resources, and if we want to be strong we need to be as economically independent and self sufficient as possible, like we were then.

Right now, the beneficiaries of free trade are the American consumer in the short term and transnational corporations. But when foreign nations stop accepting our dollars (and they will), and trade slows down, we'll experience the full brunt of a hollowed-out economy. IMHO better a little pain now than a lot of pain later.

I think reindustrializing is a laudable goal, don't you?
Why don't we hash that out before tariffs, bc if you don't think the goal is achievable or worthwhile then tariffs are, in your view, entirely counterproductive.

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THGR:
I thought this was your thread signym when I agreed to come here. Nope, it's Gilligan's. This discussion belongs in my "Trump destroys everything he touches." thread. So, put the next post, topic on the list, you want me to respond to there.


SIGNY:
YOUR thread is pejoratively titled. It assumes a conclusion ("Trump is destroying everything") before there's even a discussion.

While I think Trump is fucking up quite a few things, he's not fucking up EVERYTHING. Border control, for instance. In an act of deliberate anti-American sabotage, Biden* DELIBERATELY opened the gates. It wasn't a case of ineptitude. He* even assigned a fall guy (gal) "border czar", Kamala Harris, to catch the flak for the inevitable angry backlash. IMHO a nation being able to control its borders is a GOOD thing. Isn't it?

Ending DEI is another good thing. DEI and the coddling of grievance groups like BLM and ANTIFA and LGBTQ+, extreme wokeness, "snowflakes" and "safe spaces", the reparations movement ("give me free money bc I'm black") are incredibly divisive and anti -American. (And funded by Soros, BTW.) We should be refocusing instead on equality of education, equality of opportunity, and equality under the law. Something we all should be able to be proud of, altho I know many blacks will continue to carry a grudge for slavery and past prejudice.

Ending "defund the police" that arose from the "mostly peaceful" riots is also a good thing. Isn't it?

I can point to a lot of things that make me tear my hair out, and I intend to. But Trump has done some GOOD things, and if Dems want to start winning elections their candidates should stop fighting Trump on those issues and get behind them.

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signym

I think reindustrializing is a laudable goal, don't you?
Why don't we hash that out before tariffs, bc if you don't think the goal is achievable or worthwhile then tariffs are, in your view, entirely counterproductive.

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Originally posted by THG:

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signym

I think reindustrializing is a laudable goal, don't you?
Why don't we hash that out before tariffs, bc if you don't think the goal is achievable or worthwhile then tariffs are, in your view, entirely counterproductive.

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THGR:
I am not against having more manufacturing. We need it. Look what happened during COVID. I think the South lost the civil war because for the most part, they couldn’t make a canon.

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Tariffs are for dealing with countries that need tariffs to be placed on them. Trump tariffed the world, and I think it’s sad you can’t differentiate between those two perspectives.

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THGR:
And again, Congress, according to the constitution is responsible for tariffs except in individual circumstances. You keep ignoring that Trump is breaking the law by what he is doing. Your posts are nonsensical. Tariffs don’t belong in a conversation about bringing manufacturing home.

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It’s not about tariffs. It’s about finding ways to bring more manufacturing home that we can sustain. Remember, we live in a society that barters with each other.

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The best product sold at the cheapest price wins. We could do everything here but if wages make it too expensive to sell then what's the point?

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And let's not get started on how his tariffs are destroying agriculture here. And how it is a tax on everybody?

Another inescapable fact. Trumps’ economy hasn't completely collapsed sooner because he inherited a very strong economy. That collapse has started, and it is going to continue.

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Originally posted by THG:
Holiday spending by Gen Z expected to drop 23% this year, according to PwC survey

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/news/holiday-spending-by-gen-z-expecte
d-to-drop-23-this-year-according-to-pwc-survey/vi-AA1LOLxt?ocid=msedgntp&pc=EDBBAN&cvid=68cf2b1a66844e53a0a2f53666a837bf&ei=97#details

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The headline speaks for itself.

T

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

I disagree on every point, but I'm too busy right now.

Now, you are ranting. Border control is another topic.

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"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal."- Henry Kissinger

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Originally posted by THG:
This is from a week ago. Think tariffs comrade signym. I deal in facts, what's happening. Not I think.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal."- Henry Kissinger

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Originally posted by second:
The bonfire of the bathroom vanities:

Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump · September 25, 2025, 7:10 PM

We will be imposing a 50% Tariff on all Kitchen Cabinets, Bathroom Vanities, and associated products, starting October 1st, 2025. Additionally, we will be charging a 30% Tariff on Upholstered Furniture. The reason for this is the large scale “FLOODING” of these products into the United States by other outside Countries. It is a very unfair practice, but we must protect, for National Security and other reasons, our Manufacturing process. Thank you for your attention to this matter!

https://trumpstruth.org/statuses/33089

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

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Originally posted by THG:

Comrade signym tried to debate against facts in this thread and lost. She thought she could take me down a philosophical rabbit hole. Her mistake was she thought she was debating with me. Instead, I stayed on topic and I put forth facts as reported by the experts. Needless to say, she lost. It was fun.

Comrade, I'm ready for the next topic on the list. Comrade?

T

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Originally posted by THG:
Comrade signym tried to debate against facts in this thread and lost. She thought she could take me down a philosophical rabbit hole. Her mistake was she thought she was debating with me. Instead, I stayed on topic and I put forth facts as reported by the experts. Needless to say, she lost. It was fun.

Comrade, I'm ready for the next topic on the list. Comrade?
T

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
You might have noticed THGR that I haven't been posting much and my posts have been really short. Tariffs, globalism, trade, rapacious capitalism, and the whole lot are all tangled up and need to be unpicked.

And, no, I don't think I'm debating you.

But, as usual, you think you've made an argument by name- calling (comrade, Marxist) when you haven't actually addressed the point someone brings up. You don't because you can't.


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"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal."- Henry Kissinger

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signym

I think reindustrializing is a laudable goal, don't you?
Why don't we hash that out before tariffs, bc if you don't think the goal is achievable or worthwhile then tariffs are, in your view, entirely counterproductive.

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THGR:
Tariffs are for dealing with countries that need tariffs to be placed on them. Trump tariffed the world, and I think it’s sad you can’t differentiate between those two perspectives.

SIGNY:
Wow.
You're either not reading or not comprehending what I posted. I posted over ... and over ... and over ... that I'm good with the CONCEPT of tariffs, but not the way Trump is doing it. IMHO it needs to be sector by sector, infrastructure and supply chains need to be established, and investment assured.

can we agree that reindustrialization is a good thing, and tariffs should be part of the plan, but Trump is making a hash of it?

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THGR:
And again, Congress, according to the constitution is responsible for tariffs except in individual circumstances. You keep ignoring that Trump is breaking the law by what he is doing. Your posts are nonsensical. Tariffs don’t belong in a conversation about bringing manufacturing home.

SIGNY:
Tariffs are an essential part of bringing manufacturing home. Even when we officially ended tariffs, post WWII it took a couple if decades for other nations to rebuild, so effectively we had protected industry from our founding to roughly 1970. [About 200 years]


THGR:
It’s not about tariffs. It’s about finding ways to bring more manufacturing home that we can sustain. Remember, we live in a society that barters with each other.

SIGNY:
Not true, and apparently you don't understand "barter". Barter is exchanging goods for goods. When we get oil from Saudi Arabia, for example, what "goods" do we send to Saudi Arabia? Cars? Wheat?
The answer is, we don't. We give them money. USD. And Nixon forced them into that deal. That's not barter.

THGR:
The best product sold at the cheapest price wins. We could do everything here but if wages make it too expensive to sell then what's the point?

SIGNYV
I already addressed that point.

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Originally posted by THG:
You just keep playing stupid. I am not debating Tariffs as a standalone entity. Between one country and another. I said, I would point out the destructive aspects of Trumps' different policies. I don't care about what would be nice if it happened. Different hypotheticals you keep suggesting in your posts. Instead, I care about what is actually happening.

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If apple were to make their phones here. It would take several years to set up a manufacturing plant first. And then those phones would cost about 3.5 thousand dollars each. Look it up. If the entire manufacturing process was moved to the U.S., some say they would cost 30,000 per phone. Stay in reality please and do what I do, deal in facts. This way you won't come off as ignorant.

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iPhone Cost
The iPhone 16 is Apple’s latest phone and comes in various iterations, as previous models have. The iPhone 16 Pro, depending on storage size, costs from $999 to $1,599. It’s quite a hefty price tag, especially when it’s estimated that the actual cost of all the components to make the phone amounts to approximately $568.34

According to Tim Cook, CEO of Apple, the reason to build in China is not because of the lower labor costs. If this were the case, Apple could make its phones in even cheaper locations. The main reason, according to Cook, is the skill required in tooling engineering. He claims that the specific skill set is no longer available in the United States, but in China, the expertise is prevalent.9

In addition, logistically, China makes the most sense to ship a product around the world, as the country has seven of the world’s largest 10 ports.

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How much in the USA?
One analyst estimates that on labor costs alone, an iPhone made in the U.S. could cost 25% more than it does now. Another analyst pegged the price of a U.S.-made iPhone at $3,500.

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First topic, was to be about Trump using tariffs the way he is.

Well, for one thing, it is illegal.

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His tariffs are killing our relationships with our allies,

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and weakening our standing and security globally.

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They are killing American businesses. Both large and small.

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It is a huge tax on them and our citizenry.

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According to our constitution, a president is not allowed to raise our taxes like this. It takes an act of Congress to do that. Again, look it up.

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I told you I would show, using your list, how Trump destroys whatever he touches. Not to debate the difference between the effects of tariffs on different countries. And to continually watch you post about the subject with no regard for its legality, when the constitution clearly states what Trump is doing is not.

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Who gives a shit about the effect of tariffs on Switzerland vs. another country.

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Really, get a grip and stop posting bullshit hypotheticals. Stay on topic. Which is, what I don't like about Trumps' policies. That's what you asked me.

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In response you keep lecturing me about tariffs, which makes me laugh. The subject is not the pros and cons of tariffs. Or, how they work. The subject is, Trumps tariff policies and what I don't like about them. Which encompasses, are they legal, and what are they doing to the country; pay attention.

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You put all that work into your past and current posts and you aren't even on topic. Which is why I've taken to underlining some words. Yano, make it simpler for you to understand lass.

too funny...

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