IRAN: Trump's war? by SIGNYM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Trump Says Iran’s Nuke Sites Are “Obliterated.” The Military Isn’t So Sure.

Defense officials say his claims are “overblown” — and the intelligence community said Iran wasn’t building a bomb.

By Nick Turse | June 23 2025, 1:13 p.m.

https://theintercept.com/2025/06/23/trump-iran-nuclear-strikes/

President Donald Trump took to social media to crow over his bombing of Iran on Saturday night. “Tonight, I can report to the world that the strikes were a spectacular military success. Iran’s key nuclear enrichment facilities have been completely and totally obliterated,” he wrote.

Current and former Pentagon officials question Trump’s certainty that three of Iran’s nuclear sites were “totally obliterated” by U.S. attacks. One current official called the post-strike assessment, offered in the immediate wake of the Saturday attacks, “overblown.” All said the destruction at Fordow, Natanz, and Esfahan was extensive, but that the full extent of the damage to Iran’s nuclear capabilities was not immediately clear.

“Overblown and premature,” the defense official, commenting about Trump’s claims on the condition of anonymity to avoid retaliation, told The Intercept by instant message. “What else is new[?]” That assessment was echoed by a former defense official who also spoke on the condition of anonymity due to the nature of his current employment.

In the wake of such criticism, Trump doubled down. “Monumental Damage was done to all Nuclear sites in Iran, as shown by satellite images. Obliteration is an accurate term!” he posted on TruthSocial on Sunday. “The biggest damage took place far below ground level. Bullseye!!!”

“From a targeting standpoint, ‘destruction’ means there is absolutely nothing left. These facilities were not destroyed by formal definition. Further, there is no way to assess the full scale of damage against such targets without boots on the ground,” said Wes Bryant, a former Pentagon official who previously worked as a Special Operations joint terminal attack controller, or JTAC, and called in thousands of strikes against the Islamic State and other terrorist groups across the greater Middle East.

Bryant added: “Suffice to say that the use of these facilities has been denied for the near or considerable future, and the strikes no doubt had a psychological effect on the regime. However, to state that any potential nuclear weapons development on the part of Iran has been permanently stopped would be incredibly naive.”

Six U.S. Air Force B-2 stealth bombers reportedly dropped 12 GBU-57 Massive Ordnance Penetrators — 30,000-pound bombs colloquially known as “bunker busters” — on the heavily fortified Fordow nuclear facility, Iran’s main location for enriching uranium. A seventh U.S. B-2 bomber attacked the Natanz Nuclear Facility with two GBU-57 bombs, while a U.S. Navy submarine also launched Tomahawk missiles, targeting both Natanz and Esfahan, as part of the mission code-named “Operation Midnight Hammer.”

Rafael Mariano Grossi, director general of the International Atomic Energy Agency, reiterated the IAEA’s consistent message that “armed attacks on nuclear facilities should never take place, and could result in radioactive releases with grave consequences within and beyond the boundaries of the State which has been attacked,” in an address to the agency’s Board of Governors on Monday.

He noted that craters were now visible at the Fordow site but stated that “no one — including the IAEA — is in a position to have fully assessed the underground damage at Fordow. He added: “Given the explosive payload utilized, and the extreme vibration-sensitive nature of centrifuges, very significant damage is expected to have occurred.”

A senior Iranian official told Reuters that most of the highly enriched uranium at Fordow had been moved to an undisclosed location ahead of the U.S. strikes. Before and after the Saturday attacks, current and former U.S. defense officials told The Intercept that this was highly likely.

“We often don’t give our adversaries enough credit and underestimate their savviness. They’ve been planning for something like this for years. They could have planted information on Fordow as a decoy,” Bryant explained. “It could be a major nuclear facility but might not have been as important as people think. Their nuclear warfare capabilities might be under development somewhere that we don’t even know about and they could have invited the attack on this high-profile decoy. There is no reporting saying that’s the case, but these are things you always have to look at when you’re planning military operations — especially of this scale against a near-peer adversary.”

Grossi also confirmed the damage at Natanz and said that at Esfahan, the “affected buildings include some related to the uranium conversion process” and that entrances to tunnels used for the storage of enriched material also appear to have been attacked.

U.S. Chair of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Dan Caine said Sunday that there was “severe damage and destruction” to the three facilities but did not go so far as to say that Iran’s nuclear capacities had been eliminated.

“Final battle damage [assessments] will take some time, but initial battle damage assessments indicate that all three sites sustained extremely severe damage and destruction,” Caine said. When asked if Iran still retains any nuclear capability, Caine said that battle damage assessments were “still pending, and it would be way too early for me to comment on what may or may not still be there.”

The Pentagon did not offer an update on Monday. “We have nothing additional to provide beyond the Chairman’s comments at this time,” a spokesperson told The Intercept.

The White House did not reply to a request for comment about the discrepancy between Caine’s statement and Trump’s claims.

The aim of the attacks, American and Israeli officials have said, is to prevent Iran from building a nuclear bomb. The U.S. intelligence community says that threat was not, however, real.

“We continue to assess Iran is not building a nuclear weapon and that [Iran’s supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali] Khamenei has not reauthorized the nuclear weapons program he suspended in 2003, though pressure has probably built on him to do so,” reads the 2025 Annual Threat Assessment published in March. The assessment serves as the intelligence community’s official evaluation of threats to “the Homeland,” U.S. citizens, and the country’s interests. Last week, Trump said Director of National Intelligence Tulsi Gabbard was “wrong” about intelligence on Iran when she testified in March before the Senate that the nation was not actively building a nuclear weapon.

Photos of the Situation Room during the attack on Iran, released Saturday evening, did not show Gabbard present alongside Trump, Vice President JD Vance, Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth, and other administration officials. The White House later told Fox News that Gabbard was present.

On Monday, Israel struck Evin prison, Iran’s most notorious jail for political prisoners, adding it to the list of nonmilitary and nuclear sites that it has attacked, which includes energy infrastructure and Iran’s government news agency. Israeli strikes have killed at least 950 people and wounded 3,450 others since its campaign began 10 days ago, according to the Washington-based group Human Rights Activists.

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has expressed his desire for regime change in Iran and not ruled out targeting the country’s supreme leader, saying “no one in Iran should have immunity.” Israel’s defense minister said Ayatollah Ali Khamenei cannot “continue to exist.” Trump joined in on the threats, pointing out that the U.S. knows Khamenei’s location and dangling the possibility of assassinating him in the future.

The U.S. attacks on Saturday were incredibly complex and expensive. U.S. forces employed approximately 75 precision guided weapons, including 14 of the Massive Ordnance Penetrator bombs, according to Caine. More than 125 U.S. aircraft participated in the mission, including the B-2 stealth bombers, fighter jets, and dozens of air refueling tankers. It was reportedly the largest B-2 strike in U.S. history and the second longest B-2 mission ever flown. Bombers launched from the continental U.S. flew east for 18 hours before they attacked Iran, while a decoy flew west over the Pacific. A guided missile submarine; a full array of intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance aircraft; and hundreds of maintenance and operational military personnel also took part.

Bryant lauded the tactical prowess of the strikes but questioned the aptitude of the man who ordered them. “It was a demonstration of the unparalleled precision, global reach, and the devastating power of the U.S. military,” he said of the attack, emphasizing that such force needs to be “tempered and guided by a level hand.” Trump, he said, was unfit for this job, increasingly seems to “worship” military power, and that the president’s sudden decision to join Israel’s war “demonstrates his increasing volatility.”

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

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Monday, June 23, 2025 2:44 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Iranian missiles over Doha. Advance notice was given.

"It be rainin' missiles!" Inbound to Tel Aviv.

Fuck Israel. I hope those evil Zionists are scattered across the globe.

*****

GPS jamming in the straits of Hormuz: Given the missile exchanges between Iran and the USA appear to be primarily theater, and that Iran has million$ of reasons not to piss off China and Saudi Arabia, there's a distinct possibility that this is an Israeli false flag.

Keeping an open mind.

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"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal."- Henry Kissinger

AMERICANS SUPPORT AMERICA

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Monday, June 23, 2025 3:39 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

In the realm of what is NOT being reported (in western press), Iran struck heavily populated areas of Tel Aviv, killing an estimated thousand, and wounding many more.
Bombing helpless civilians ... it's not as much fun when you're the one getting bombed.
Listening to some Israeli jagoff whining about it?
Sickening.

THGR:

I just posted this in another of my threads but I want it here as well.

There is a clock tower in Iran in the middle of a major city, Tehran's Palestine Square. It is called the doomsday clock. It is counting down until 2040. That’s when Iran claims it will have eradicated all the Jews in Israel.

Iran has been yelling “death to America and death to Israel” since the Jews reclaimed sovereignty over Israel in the forties.

Jews didn't have sovereignty over Palestine. They lived there, along with other Semites, throughout the period. However, when BRITAIN GAVE PART OF PALESTINE TO THE JEWS, THE JEWS DISPLACED PEOPLE WHO WERE ALREADY LIVING THERE, KNOCKING DOWN THEIR HOUSES, TEARING UP THEIR OLIVE ORCHARDS AND FARMS, AND CONDUCTING A POGROM OF THEIR OWN.

Quote:
Let it be remembered, the Ottoman Empire, Arabs, drove the Israelis out of Jerusalem in 1517. If you ask, and I have, any Muslim if they had been driven out of Mecca in 1517, should they be allowed to reclaim their home, they won’t answer. Why, because that would be admitting the Israelis have the same right.

If you grant Israel the "right" to reclaim their "homeland", then you must also grant Palestinians the right to reclaim theirs.

Quote:
Personally, I am sick and tired of dealing with terrorists.

Me too. That's why I'm sick and tired of dealing with Zionists.

Quote:
It is said, maybe as many as 20% or even more of Muslim’s are radicalized. Since there are 1.5 billion Muslims, that means there are at least 300 million of the Basterds.

Then why did we use terrorists as our proxies in Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, and Chechnya?

Quote:
What the Jews are doing in Gaza is, a genocide.

It is also, by definition, TERRORISM. The (terrorist) State of Israel has killed more people than all the Muslim terrorists combined.

Quote:
I am completely against it. That said, Muslim men hide behind women and children. They did the same thing in Iraq. They always do it.

All those hospitals that Israel targeted, claiming there were Hamas command centers underneath?

Bullshit.

Israelis TARGET civilians.

Quote:
Israel has been preparing to do what they are doing for a long time.

Israel has been stealing land and water and forcing the former inhabitants to live in the biggest open air concentration camps ever. Just like the Warsaw ghetto but much, much bigger.

They not only stole Palestinisn land, they stole Syrian land and water, they tried to steal Lebanese land, and the whackier ones are even talking about stealing Jordan and parts of Eqypt.

Brilliant?

Hardly.

Quote:
Aside from Gaza, they have every right to do what they are doing.

They have no right at all.

Quote:
blah blah blah

Why couldn't Jews just live there in peace with the people already living there? Why did they have to steal their land, and put them into concentration... er, "refugee"... camps for generations, dependent on Zionists for food, water, electricity, fuel, and basic supplies?

Do you know what Israel is doing now? They are targeting emergency food distribution centers so when people go for food, they get killed.

Fuck Israel. If there was a hell, Zionists would surely burn in it.

-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal."- Henry Kissinger

AMERICANS SUPPORT AMERICA

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Monday, June 23, 2025 4:02 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Donald Trump's decision to bomb Iranian nuclear facilities wasn't strategic planning — it was pure ego.

Trump flip-flopped wildly in the final hours before Saturday's strikes, initially siding with Tucker Carlson's anti-war stance before abruptly reversing course when Republican hawks convinced him military action would make him "look like a winner."

Wolff, speaking on The Daily Beast Podcast, dismissed White House claims that the bombing represented careful, methodical planning. "This is not true at all, this is completely made up," he said bluntly.

The deciding factor? Trump's vanity. "Then the tenor of the phone calls was him saying, 'I think I'm gonna look very good if I do this,'" Wolff explained, calling the Iranian strikes a "vanity bombing."

https://www.rawstory.com/trump-tulsi-iran/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

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Monday, June 23, 2025 4:08 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Trump attacked Iran without even an attempt to provide a sound reasoning. There was no false flag incident or any serious argument of weapons of mass destruction. The U.S. attacked Iran simply because it could do so.

Trump is thereby not only in breach of the U.S. constitution, which requires Congress to declare a war. The U.S. war of aggression against Iran is also a breach of the U.S. Charter. Its attacks on civil nuclear installations is a breach of the Additional Protocols of the Geneva Convention which prohibits these.

We are now in a new world disorder:

The first major consequence, in broader terms, is that this strike dealt a final, irreparable blow to what little remained of the post-war international legal and institutional framework. That order was already in tatters — shredded by a year and a half of Western-backed genocide and ethnic cleansing in Gaza. But this latest attack makes it official: Western powers no longer feel the need to cloak their actions in legality, morality or even the façade of diplomatic legitimacy.
...
Today, even that pretense is gone. In Gaza, and now with the strikes on Iran, the gloves are fully off. What we’re witnessing is a regression to a kind of global lawlessness — a “might makes right” free-for-all where nothing is off limits: not the mass slaughter of civilians, not the bombing of nuclear sites, not even the complete sidelining of international institutions.
https://www.thomasfazi.com/p/gangster-empire-what-the-bombing

https://www.moonofalabama.org/2025/06/some-consequences-of-the-war-on-
iran.html#more

-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal."- Henry Kissinger

AMERICANS SUPPORT AMERICA

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Monday, June 23, 2025 7:06 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

During an interview with Brian Tyler Cohen, Mark Cuban said, "I've known Trump for 25 years... He is the most unethical, lacks character, dishonest person I've ever done business with... This is one of the few human beings on the planet that gets dumber in front of our faces every single day."

https://www.the-express.com/entertainment/celebrity-news/175599/stephe
n-king-trump-incompetent-remark

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

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Monday, June 23, 2025 7:10 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Why should I care what Mark Cuban ... whoever he is ... says?

-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal."- Henry Kissinger

AMERICANS SUPPORT AMERICA

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Monday, June 23, 2025 7:23 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Why should I care what Mark Cuban ... whoever he is ... says?

Because Mark Cuban has direct experience with Trump, a good reputation, and solid judgment. Signym, you are playing a stupid game called: "Why should I care what the experts say when I, Signym, am so much more trustworthy?" Except you are not worth trusting. Here is another expert you can claim knows far less than the brilliant Signym. The expert is Juan Cole.

Top Things You Still Think You Know About Iran that are Not True

By Juan Cole | 06/21/2025

https://www.juancole.com/2025/06/things-still-think.html

A revised version of an essay from a long time ago. It didn’t need much revision.

Belief: Iran is aggressive and has threatened to attack Israel, its neighbors or the US.

Reality: Iran has not launched an aggressive war in modern history (unlike the US or Israel), and its leaders have a doctrine of “no first strike.” This is true of Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei, as well as of Revolutionary Guards commanders.

Belief: Iran is a militarized society bristling with dangerous weapons and a growing threat to world peace.

Reality: Iran’s military budget in recent years has expanded from $10 billion a year around $15 billion annually, making it 25th in the world for such expenditures and putting it in the same range as Singapore and Uruguay. Algeria and Turkiye spend more, and Israel spends twice as much. Even if the war causes Iran to double its spending, it would still only match the United Arab Emirates and Israel, and would not reach the level of Saudi Arabia. Moreover, Iran is a country of 92 million, so that its per capita spending on defense is tiny compared to some of these others, since they are much smaller countries with regard to population.

Belief: Iran has threatened to attack Israel militarily and to “wipe it off the map.”

Reality: Iran’s leaders have often warned Israel that an attack would be met with a strong response. No Iranian leader in the executive had threatened a first-strike, aggressive act of war on Israel, since this would contradict the doctrine of ‘no first strike’ to which the country has adhered.

Belief: But didn’t President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad (in office 2005-2013) threaten to ‘wipe Israel off the map?’

Reality: President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad did quote Ayatollah Khomeini (d. 1989) to the effect that “this Occupation regime over Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time” (in rezhim-e eshghalgar-i Qods bayad as safheh-e ruzgar mahv shavad). This was not a pledge to roll tanks and invade or to launch missiles, however. It is the expression of a hope that the regime will collapse, just as the Soviet Union did. It is not a threat to kill anyone at all.

Belief: But aren’t Iranians Holocaust deniers?

Actuality: Some are, some aren’t. Former president Mohammad Khatami has castigated Ahmadinejad for questioning the full extent of the Holocaust, which he called “the crime of Nazism.” Many educated Iranians in the regime are perfectly aware of the horrors of the Holocaust. In any case, despite what propagandists imply, neither Holocaust denial (as wicked as that is) nor calling Israel names is the same thing as pledging to attack it militarily.

Belief: Iran is like North Korea in having an active nuclear weapons program, and is the same sort of threat to the world.

Actuality: Iran has long had a nuclear enrichment site at Natanz near Isfahan where it said it was producing fuel for its Bushehr nuclear energy plant and for future civilian nuclear reactors to generate electricity. All Iranian leaders denied that this site was for weapons production, and the International Atomic Energy Agency repeatedly inspected it over the decades and found no weapons program. Iran is not being completely transparent, generating some doubts, but all the evidence the IAEA and the CIA can gather points to there not being a weapons program. As recently as March Director of National Intelligence Tulsi Gabbard reaffirmed that US intelligence has no evidence for a weapons program. She recently backtracked, saying that Iran has the elements to launch a weapons program, but you could say that about Japan, South Korea, and the Netherlands, too. These longstanding US intel assessments have been based on debriefings of defecting nuclear scientists, as well as on the documents they brought out, in addition to US signals intelligence from Iran and numerous inspections by the UN’s International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA). While the IAEA criticized aspects of Iran’s civilian enrichment program, Rafael Grossi, its head, recently reaffirmed, “We did not have any proof of a systematic effort to move into a nuclear weapon.”

Belief: Isn’t the Iranian regime irrational and crazed, so that a doctrine of mutually assured destruction just would not work with them?

Actuality: Iranian politicians are rational actors. If they were madmen, why haven’t they invaded any of their neighbors? Saddam Hussein of Iraq invaded both Iran and Kuwait. Israel has invaded its neighbors more than once, most recently Syria. In contrast, Iran has not started any wars. Demonizing people by calling them unbalanced is an old propaganda trick. The US elite was once unalterably opposed to China having nuclear science because they believed the Chinese are intrinsically irrational. This kind of talk is a form of racism.

Belief: The U.S. would not have put sanctions on Iran, and would not be so worried, if it were not a gathering nuclear threat.

Actuality: The centrifuge technology that Iran is using to enrich uranium is open-ended. In the old days, you could tell which countries might want a nuclear bomb by whether they were building light water reactors (less suitable for bomb-making) or heavy-water reactors (could be used to make a bomb in short order, as in North Korea). But with centrifuges, once you can enrich to 5% to fuel a civilian reactor, you could theoretically feed the material back through many times and enrich to 90% for a bomb. However, as long as centrifuge plants are being actively inspected, they cannot be used to make a bomb. The two danger signals would be if Iran threw out the inspectors or if it found a way to create a secret facility. The latter task would be extremely difficult, however, as demonstrated by the CIA’s discovery of the Qom facility construction in 2006 from satellite photos. Nuclear installations, especially centrifuge ones, consume a great deal of water, construction materiel, and so forth, so that constructing one in secret is a tall order. In any case, you can’t attack and destroy a country because you have an intuition that they might be doing something illegal. You need some kind of proof. Moreover, Israel, Pakistan and India are all much worse citizens of the globe than Iran, since they refused to sign the nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and then went for broke to get a bomb; and nothing at all has been done to any of them by the United Nations Security Council.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

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Monday, June 23, 2025 7:29 PM

THG

Quote:
Originally posted by second:

During an interview with Brian Tyler Cohen, Mark Cuban said, "I've known Trump for 25 years... He is the most unethical, lacks character, dishonest person I've ever done business with... This is one of the few human beings on the planet that gets dumber in front of our faces every single day."

https://www.the-express.com/entertainment/celebrity-news/175599/stephe
n-king-trump-incompetent-remark

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Yes yes...

T

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Monday, June 23, 2025 7:31 PM

THG

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Why should I care what Mark Cuban ... whoever he is ... says?
Because Mark Cuban has direct experience with Trump, a good reputation, and solid judgment. Signym, you are playing a stupid game called: "Why should I care what the experts say when I, Signym, am so much more trustworthy?" Except you are not worth trusting. Here is another expert you can claim knows far less than the brilliant Signym. The expert is Juan Cole.

Top Things You Still Think You Know About Iran that are Not True

By Juan Cole | 06/21/2025

https://www.juancole.com/2025/06/things-still-think.html

I believe Mark Cuban. One big reason is because I have eyes. I see the same thing.

Jesus stated that His mission on earth was not to destroy Judaism or replace the Jewish people. His mission was to take what had been promised for so long and bring it to fruition through the promises given to Israel.

Jesus mentions Judea as the "land of the Jews" in the Bible

There is no direct mention of "Palestinians" in the Bible.

And there it is comrade signym.

T

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Monday, June 23, 2025 7:33 PM

JAYNEZTOWN

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Advance notice was given.

So a way for Trump to exit stage left

make some statement

and the two radical religion idiots fighting this out should try be friendly before the whole region goes up in flames

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Monday, June 23, 2025 8:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Why should I care what Mark Cuban ... whoever he is ... says?

Mark Cuban has never been right about anything, so the answer is that you shouldn't.

Also, Bryan Taylor Cohen who was interviewing him is the USAid funded cunt that runs the clickbait farm Midas Touch that Ted parrots here everyday, which is also wrong about everything it's ever said.

--------------------------------------------------

"I don't find this stuff amusing anymore." ~Paul Simon

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Monday, June 23, 2025 8:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
You can contact the WH directly instead of bitching here

https://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/

-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal."- Henry Kissinger

AMERICANS SUPPORT AMERICA

I would heavily advise against Second doing that.

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"I don't find this stuff amusing anymore." ~Paul Simon

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Monday, June 23, 2025 8:31 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Iran Reportedly Agrees To Trump-Backed, Qatari-Mediated Ceasefire With Israel
Monday, Jun 23, 2025 - 04:26 PM

Update: Fox is reporting, "President Trump spoke with Qatar’s Emir and informed him the U.S. got Israel to agree to a ceasefire with Iran.

Yep, I'll bet! Bc it be rainin' missiles on Tel Aviv! (And elsewhere)

Quote:
The President asked Qatar to help persuade Iran to do the same, following that Vice President Vance coordinated with Qatar’s Prime Minister on the details. This effort proved successful and, following discussions with the Qatari PM,

who had JUST finshed talking with Putin

Quote:
the Iranians agreed. The deal was coordinated at the highest level by the President and Vice President and the Qatari Emir and Prime minister directly."

"Despite having been attacked just hours earlier, the Qataris set aside their grievances and prioritized regional security to get the deal done," this source added.

Reuters is reporting that Iran has agreed to the ceasefire, which at the very least will provide a respite to the tit-for-tat missiles.

Well, we'll see.

-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal."- Henry Kissinger

AMERICANS SUPPORT AMERICA

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Monday, June 23, 2025 8:37 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

THUGR: Jesus stated that His mission on earth was not to destroy Judaism or replace the Jewish people. His mission was to take what had been promised for so long and bring it to fruition through the promises given to Israel.

There is no direct mention of "Palestinians" in the Bible.

Where's that Bible quote?

Cause everything I know about the New Testament says that Jesus' kingdom is not earthly.

-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal."- Henry Kissinger

AMERICANS SUPPORT AMERICA

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Monday, June 23, 2025 8:43 PM

THG

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

THUGR: Jesus stated that His mission on earth was not to destroy Judaism or replace the Jewish people. His mission was to take what had been promised for so long and bring it to fruition through the promises given to Israel.

There is no direct mention of "Palestinians" in the Bible.

Where's that Bible quote?

Cause everything I know about the New Testament says that Jesus' kingdom is not earthly.

Jesus's kingdom is not earthly. But the kingdom or the Jews is.

Matthew 15:24 is a verse from the Bible where Jesus says, "I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel." This indicates that His mission was primarily directed towards the Jewish people

T

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Monday, June 23, 2025 10:14 PM

They are the chosen ones!!!

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"I don't find this stuff amusing anymore." ~Paul Simon

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Monday, June 23, 2025 11:24 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
THUGR:
Jesus stated that His mission on earth was not to destroy Judaism or replace the Jewish people. His mission was to take what had been promised for so long and bring it to fruition through the promises given to Israel.

There is no direct mention of "Palestinians" in the Bible.

SIGNY
Where's that Bible quote?
Cause everything I know about the New Testament says that Jesus' kingdom is not earthly.

THGR: Jesus's kingdom is not earthly. But the kingdom or the Jews is.

Matthew 15:24 is a verse from the Bible where Jesus says, "I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel." This indicates that His mission was primarily directed towards the Jewish people

Ok, but WHAT was his mission?

Not to establish an earthly Jewish kingdom. He said so himself!
The Jews of that day expected he'd free them from the Romans! Rebuild the Temple! Establish a kingdom of Jews!

Jesus, that way, was SUCH disappointment to them. So much for being THE Messiah! That's why the Jews don't accept him as their Messiah. You think Jesus is meaningful to Jews? Jews don't.

Capisce?

-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal."- Henry Kissinger

AMERICANS SUPPORT AMERICA

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Monday, June 23, 2025 11:41 PM

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"I don't find this stuff amusing anymore." ~Paul Simon

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Tuesday, June 24, 2025 5:54 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Why should I care what Mark Cuban ... whoever he is ... says?

Mark Cuban has never been right about anything, so the answer is that you shouldn't.

Also, Bryan Taylor Cohen who was interviewing him is the USAid funded cunt that runs the clickbait farm Midas Touch that Ted parrots here everyday, which is also wrong about everything it's ever said.

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"I don't find this stuff amusing anymore." ~Paul Simon

I don't tell Trumptards this often enough, but will in this case. You are out of your mind, 6ix. Absolutely crazy.

And for the rest of the people who voted for Trump because they think America is going in the wrong direction: Look at yourself and your daily stupid decisions. Those are what is wrong. Fix your mental problems. You are not sane. America is fine. You are NOT fine. You are NOT living correctly. I know, I know that all Trumptards think freedom means doing what they want and getting angry when things don't go the way they prefer. I wish Trumptards would gain a little sanity and realize that doing whatever weird, perverted, evil, sick thing bubbling up into their consciousness is NOT freedom. It is mental illness.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

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Tuesday, June 24, 2025 5:59 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by second:

I wish Trumptards would gain a little sanity and realize that doing whatever weird, perverted, evil, sick thing bubbling up into their consciousness is NOT freedom. It is mental illness.

Strange ideas bubbling in Trump's head are driving him to start dangerous and wasteful military actions:

3 ways Americans could pay for Trump’s war with Iran

The conflict could take a toll in both blood and money.

By Eric Levitz | Jun 23, 2025, 3:35 PM CDT

https://www.vox.com/politics/417546/us-iran-war-economy-qatar-attack-a
merican-troops

President Donald Trump has framed his strikes on Iran as a costless triumph. The president is not asking Americans to accept sacrifices in service of destroying the Iranian nuclear program — only to applaud his already successful destruction of it.

“Iran’s key nuclear enrichment facilities have been completely and totally obliterated,” Trump declared Saturday night. “Iran, the bully of the Middle East, must now make peace. If they do not, future attacks will be far greater and a lot easier.”

It’s possible that Trump’s war will unwind as advertised. The Iranian regime finds itself in a state of profound weakness. Israel has gutted its air defenses and flies largely unharried through its skies. Iran’s nuclear facilities are badly damaged, while many of its top atomic scientists and military leaders lie dead. Its most fearsome partner militias — Hezbollah and Hamas — are badly degraded. Its longtime allies in Damascus have been deposed. Its friends in Moscow seem to have too much on their own plates to lend much of a hand.

From this precarious position, the Iranian leadership might conclude that it can ill afford an escalating conflict with the world’s greatest military power. Perhaps, it will follow the same basic playbook it did following Trump’s assassination of its military leader Qasem Soleimani in 2020: Back then, Iran responded with face-saving strikes on US military bases in Iraq — but ones that it heavily telegraphed, enabling American soldiers to take cover and retain their lives, which in turn allowed Trump to call things even and end the conflict. Iran’s strike on a US base in Qatar on Monday could be interpreted as fitting this mold: The US said that it had advanced warning of the strike and that there were no American casualties.

What’s more, it is even possible that the Iranian regime could conclude that its nuclear program is more trouble than it’s worth and sheepishly return to the bargaining table, now ready to accept more stringent restrictions on its freedom to enrich uranium or build ballistic missiles.

But such rosy outcomes are far from certain. And if things do not transpire as Trump hopes, his war could impose significant costs on the American people — in terms of money, blood, and nuclear security.

How Trump’s war on Iran could impact the economy

For Americans, the most widely felt consequences of Trump’s war with Iran would likely be economic. Oil prices have climbed by more than 12 percent since the end of May, when Israel began threatening to strike Iran’s nuclear facilities. An escalating US-Iran conflict could further elevate Americans’ energy costs.

The nightmare scenario here concerns the Strait of Hormuz, the world’s only waterway connecting the Persian Gulf with the open ocean. Each day, about 20 million barrels of oil — or about 20 percent of the world’s total supply — moves through the strait. Iran could plausibly choke off all shipping through the waterway if it wished to do so. And on Sunday, the Iranian Parliament reportedly approved such a course of action, although it remains up to the nation’s Supreme National Security Council to enact a blockade.

Were Iran to take that extraordinary measure, the price of oil could shoot up past $130 a barrel, according to industry analysts (as of this writing, a barrel is trading at $72). That would dramatically increase the costs of energy and transportation for US consumers. And since energy is an input into the production of more or less every good and service, a sustained blockade could push up prices more broadly. Faced with higher inflation, the Federal Reserve would likely scrap plans for cutting interest rates. In this scenario, Americans would see lower real wages and higher borrowing costs than they would have enjoyed in a world where Trump did not bomb Iran.

It’s worth saying that a blockade of the Strait of Hormuz is unlikely. Were Iran to pursue such a policy, it would effectively be sabotaging its own economy, which is heavily dependent on exporting oil via the waterway. Nevertheless, the threat of disrupting shipping through the strait is the regime’s greatest point of leverage over other world powers.

Iran could also disrupt global commerce in more modest ways. Tehran is allied with Yemen’s Houthi militia, which is already threatening to recommence its attacks on US ships in the Red Sea. Any disruption to Red Sea trade could increase global shipping costs, which would eventually bleed into US consumer prices.

Alternatively, Iran could strike oil and gas infrastructure in Middle Eastern countries allied with the United States. In a 2019 drone attack allegedly backed by Tehran, the Houthis bombed two major oil facilities in Saudi Arabia, temporarily cutting the country’s oil production in half and spiking crude prices.

At a moment when the president’s tariffs are already nudging up the cost of imports, any war-related disruptions to global trade could prove painful for American households.

Trump’s attack has put American soldiers in harm’s way

As Monday’s attack on US troops in Qatar demonstrated, Americans stationed in the Middle East face a far graver threat than more expensive gasoline. More than 40,000 US soldiers are serving on bases and warships in the region, well within reach of Iranian missiles.

Trump’s bombing of Iran’s nuclear facilities represented a far broader and more destructive attack than his strike against Soleimani five years ago. It’s reasonable to fear that Tehran’s response will be proportionally more severe, and that Monday’s strikes at Qatar represent only the beginning of its retaliation. At least, this is what the regime is telling Americans to expect.

“Any country in the region or elsewhere that is used by American forces to strike Iran will be considered a legitimate target for our armed forces,“ Ali Akbar Velayati, an adviser to Iran’s Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, said Saturday. “America has attacked the heart of the Islamic world and must await irreparable consequences.”

Some of these “consequences” could transpire on American soil. Although Iran’s immediate targets will likely lie close to home. Years after the Soleimani strike, Iran allegedly orchestrated failed assassination attempts against former national security adviser John Bolton, former Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, and Donald Trump.

According to US officials who spoke with NBC News, Iran warned Trump at this year’s G7 Summit that it could respond to an American strike on its nuclear facilities by perpetrating terrorist attacks within the United States. The regime claimed to have sleeper cells in America ready and waiting to commit such violence.

Trump may have made an Iranian nuclear weapon more likely

Trump’s war with Iran may risk making all Americans poorer while getting some of us killed. But in his administration’s ostensible view, these potential harms pale in comparison to the threat posed by Iran acquiring a nuclear weapon — a threat that Saturday’s strikes greatly mitigated.

It is not obvious how much Americans actually have at stake in preventing Iran from developing atomic weapons. No serious analyst believes that the Iranian regime is suicidal. Tehran is not going to order a nuclear first strike against the United States or any other country. Rather, it almost certainly sees nuclear weapons primarily as a deterrent against both foreign intervention and domestic challenges to its authoritarian regime.

Nevertheless, all else equal, Americans have an interest in preventing nuclear proliferation. Were Iran to acquire an atomic weapon, Saudi Arabia would be liable to pursue its own. And a nuclear arms race in the Middle East would increase the tail risk of a future atomic catastrophe.

And yet, it is possible that Trump’s strikes on Iran have actually made that nation’s acquisition of a nuclear weapon more likely.

Before Saturday’s bombings, Iran was engaged in negotiations over its nuclear program without the United States. And Tehran had previously reached an agreement to limit its enrichment of uranium in 2015, a nuclear deal that Trump tore up during his first term in office.

Now, all diplomacy over Iran’s nuclear program appears dead. And Tehran may see a nuclear weapon as more indispensable for its security than ever before. After all, the regime’s conventional military defenses have proven grossly inadequate to deter or defeat Israeli and American incursions.

Already, Iranian officials are signalling that the nation will withdraw from the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT), a move that would mean an end to the nation’s cooperation with United Nations inspections of its uranium enrichment. At present, the UN’s nuclear watchdog says it is uncertain about where Iran is storing the highly enriched uranium it has already produced. Tehran claims that, before Trump’s strikes, it had moved its uranium stockpiles out of the three sites that he targeted.

American and Israeli bombing has surely undermined Iran’s capacity to produce weapons-grade uranium. Tehran has lost some of its top nuclear scientists and suffered massive damage to its enrichment facilities. But Iran retains both the technical know-how and raw materials necessary for building an atomic bomb. And the world may have now lost visibility into its nuclear activities.

Ultimately, it is impossible for anyone to know with certainty what America’s war with Iran will bring. But what we do know is that, in the immediate term, Trump’s strikes have made Americans less safe, while heightening the risks to our economy — all in service of a geopolitical goal that likely could have been achieved through peaceful means, and which was not necessarily advanced by Saturday’s violence.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

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Tuesday, June 24, 2025 8:39 AM