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California single-payer halth care plan dead on arrival

POSTED BY: 6IXSTRINGJACK
UPDATED: Wednesday, February 16, 2022 13:03
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Monday, February 14, 2022 8:06 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK




Democratic Governor who ran on it his entire life...

Democratic Supermajority in both the house and the senate...

And the bill wasn't even brought up for a vote and it was just allowed to die.

Gee whiz. Look at all those millions being donated to Newsom and the Democrat thugs in California from Big Pharma and the insurance companies.

"You're all suckers. To think that we have two parties in this country, we don't... We have one party. It's the money party, and you're all fucked."

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2022/02/02/heal-f02.html

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/universal-healthcare-bill-california-dies
-in-legislature
/

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Monday, February 14, 2022 9:50 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


6ix, you didn't even try to learn WHY this bill didn't become law. Back in 2017 it didn't because:
Quote:

In a statement, Rendon said the bill was “woefully incomplete” because it did not address serious issues such as “financing, delivery of care, cost controls, or the realities of needed action by the Trump administration and voters to make SB 562 a genuine piece of legislation.” Rendon was echoing the main objection that the bill’s detractors—many of them Democrats—have made: that single-payer is too expensive.

A legislative analysis found that California’s single-payer plan would cost $400 billion to implement, $200 billion of which would be new spending. Critics were quick to point out that this “hefty” price tag is twice the state budget. Furthermore, the bill did not include a funding plan (although the bill’s language ensured that Healthy California would not launch unless it was funded).

However, a report by professors at the University of Massachusetts Amherst, commissioned in part by National Nurses United, estimated that after taking in the savings of single-payer, such as lower administrative costs and prices of pharmaceuticals, the actual cost of the plan would end up at around $331 billion. And, because 70 percent of the state’s current health care spending is covered by public programs like Medicare and Medi-Cal, California would only need to come up with $106 billion in new revenue, which researchers proposed could be done through two new taxes (a 2.3 percent gross receipts and sales tax), with exemptions for small businesses and tax credits to offset costs for low-income families. In exchange, nearly all of Californians’ medical expenses would be covered, doing away with premiums, copays, and deductibles.

https://newrepublic.com/article/143650/killed-single-payer-california

As far as I can tell, the latest bill once again didn't even try to work out the myriad of details (“woefully incomplete”) because the legislators are lazy bastards with loud mouths, just like the bill in 2017, so the governor ignored it.

When asked last month about his stance on the single-payer proposal this year, Assembly Bill 1400, California governor Newsom told reporters he hadn’t even read it.

Newsom is working in his own way to advance single-payer. Newsom has made requests to the federal government for the waivers California would need to use federal health care dollars for a state-run system.

The Healthy California for All Commission is due to produce a report this spring. Newsom has pointed to the commission as part of his work toward a single-payer system.

Newsom is also making progress toward universal, affordable health coverage through his budget proposal, which aims to make it less expensive for people to buy insurance through the state’s Covered California marketplace, create an Office of Health Care Affordability aimed at lowering overall costs, and expand eligibility for the state’s low-income health plan for undocumented immigrants regardless of age.

Even so, California is far from implementing a single-payer system. Zingale said he could see such a policy passing in California within a decade, but a faster timeline is harder to envision.

https://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article2
58154383.html


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

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Monday, February 14, 2022 10:37 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


No. That's lies they tell idiots like you.

They've had 5 years to fix it, with nothing but Democrats running everything in the state.

Keep waiting. You could vote Democrats in California for the next 100 years and you still won't have single-payer health care.



I have no dog in the race. It's not me complaining. It's Socialists that are complaining.

I just love seeing them figure out Democrats are liars.




All you EVER do in here is talk about how great things will be with Democrat supermajorities.

You have one in California. It's not even close.

Yet California is a bankrupt shithole of depravity.

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Monday, February 14, 2022 10:49 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
No. That's lies they tell idiots like you.

I was correct to hold back one piece of information, just to get your honest reaction. You reacted as badly as I expected. Here is the missing info:

The following was true in 2017, and still true in 2022, but the legislators did NOT address it in their half-ass bills, mostly because it can't be fixed in a bill:

There are problems other than the fact that the bill did not include a specific funding mechanism. The biggest hurdle may be Proposition 98, a complicated California funding law that requires that around 40 percent of the state’s budget go to schools. This means that a huge portion of any increase in the state budget would have to go to education, so legislators would have to come up with almost double the money to cover the single-payer plan. To get around this, voters would have to first pass a ballot initiative.
https://newrepublic.com/article/143650/killed-single-payer-california

Want to know how stupid is 1988 California Proposition 98? How it interferes with single-payer? Here you go:

Prop 98, also called the "Classroom Instructional Improvement and Accountability Act," amended the California Constitution to mandate a minimum level of education spending based on three tests. Test one, used only for 1988 to 1989, requires spending on education to make up 39% of the state budget. Test 2, used in years of strong economic growth, requires spending on education to equal the previous years spending plus per capita growth and student enrollment adjustment. Test 3, used in years of weak economic growth guarantees prior years spending plus adjustment for enrollment growth, increases for any changes in per capita general fund revenues, and an increase by 0.5 percent in state general funds.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1988_California_Proposition_98

You’ve got to be pretty damn stupid to make this part of your Constitution, but that didn’t stop the Republicans from doing it when they had control in California while Ronald Reagan, ex-California governor, was President.

Single-payer cannot exist until Proposition 98 is removed from California's Constitution because increasing health care spending means increasing education spending by the same amount, which is crazy.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

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Monday, February 14, 2022 11:05 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


lol

It thinks it's smart.


They put it before the Governor when Arnold was there because they knew it would be shut down. There's no reason for them not to do it now other than serving their masters.

Since 2012, business groups and health care companies on record opposing the measure had donated more than $1.2 Million to the California Democratic Party.

Those same groups had also donated more than $1.5 Million to Democratic assembly members, including $82,000 directly to Rendon. Rendon had also received more than $101,000 from pharmaceutical companies, and $50,000 from health insurers. These same groups donated more than $2.2 million to the state Democratic party.

Blue Shield of California has been a huge donor to Newsom and state Democrats, as well as the governor's pet causes. Blue Shield has donated at least $99,000 to Newsom's campaigns since 2010, and $2.7 million to the California Democratic Party since 2006, according to data from the National Institute on Money in Politics.

That includes a $1 Million contripbution to the state party last summer, as Newsom was working to fend off a recall effort.

State records show Blue Shield donated $100,000 to Newsom's inaugural fund in 2019, and has made several other sizable contributions on Newsom's behalf.

Amid the COVID epidemic, Newsom awarded Blue Shield a $15 Million no-bid vaccination contract and recruited the insurer's CEO to help shape the state's COVID-19 testing strategy.

The insurer Anthem and its affiliates have donated $78,000 to Newsom's campaigns since 2013, on top of $770,000 to the Californai Democratic Party since 2002. Anthem also gave $25,000 to Newsom's 2019 inaugural fund.

Blue Shield and Anthem are both part of a coalition lobbying against the legislation, claiming it "would create a new and exorbitantly expensive government bureaucracy" and cause "significant job loss to California."

UnitedHealth Group, the nation's largest health insurer, is also opposing the single-payer bill, and has been pressing its employees to lobby California lawmakers against passing the legislation.

The insurance giant has contributed $130,000 to Newsom's campaigns since 2011, and $513,000 to th state Democratic party since 2007. In 2019, UnitedHealth Group and one of its subsidiaries donated $100.000 to Newsom's inaugural fund.

On single-payer health care, Newsom says "this bill comes out of nowhere." Yet AB 1400 was introduced last year on 2/19/21 and Newsom explicitly supported the previous bill SB 562 during his 2018 campaign.






Democrats aren't going to fix your problems until you take the money out of politics.



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Monday, February 14, 2022 11:36 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Democrats aren't going to fix your problems until you take the money out of politics.

The health care industry is powerfully opposed to single-payer because, you know, it will make less money. If you ever dealt with doctors, half of them would let you die if meant more money for themselves. At least half of them won't give discounts to the poor. Drug representatives? Same thing, money is far more important to them than whether you live or die. And doctors are more generous and caring than average Americans. America has got exactly the kind of well funded system for people who are rich (and the opposite for the poor) to be expected when the majority of Americans are the way they are. It feels good to blame the politicians who are no better than average citizens because politicians have all same ugly basic motivations as voters.

Other countries don’t pay doctors this much, and it is not accidental:

List of Doctor Specialties National Average Salary / Locums Tenens Salary
Anesthesiology $409,000 $531,700
Cardiology $473,000 $614,900
Colon & Rectal Surgery $380,000 $494,000
Dermatology $434,000 $564,200
Emergency Medicine $336,000 $436,800
Endocrinology $266,000 $345,800
Family Medicine $241,000 $313,300
Gastroenterology $456,000 $592,800
General Surgery $382,000 $496,600
Geriatrics $245,000 $318,500
Hematology $372,000 $483,600
Infectious Disease $265,000 $344,500
Internal Medicine $260,000 $338,700
Medical Genetics $247,000 $321,100
Medicine/Pediatrics $232,000 $301,600
Neurology $286,000 $371,800
Neurosurgery $662,755 $809,581
Occupational Medicine $290,000 $377,000
Oncology $404,000 $525,200
Ophthalmology $391,000 $508,300
Orthopaedic Surgery $537,568 $698,838
Otolaryngology (ENT) $431,000 $560,300
Pediatric Cardiology $283,000 $367,900
Pediatric Emergency Medicine $274,000 $356,200
Pediatric Endocrinology $214,911 $279,384
Pediatric Gastroenterology $255,000 $331,500
Pediatric Hematology/ Oncology $208,524 $271,081
Pediatric Infectious Disease $191,735 $249,255
Pediatrics $221,900 $288,470
Physical Medicine / Rehab $304,000 $395,200
Plastic Surgery $473,212 $615,175
Preventive Medicine $231,838 $301,389
Psychiatry $268,000 $348,400
Pulmonology $354,000 $460,200
Radiation Oncology $468,000 $608,400
Radiology $431,000 $560,300
Rheumatology $270,000 $351,000
Thoracic Surgery $602,745 $783,568 Simon Tam's Specialty
Urology $427,000 $555,100
Vascular Surgery $476,300 $619,190
https://medium.com/nomad-health/complete-list-of-average-doctor-salari
es-by-specialty-e2bbbc0a6186


Health expenditure as a percentage of gross domestic product (GDP) in selected countries in 2019. America is Far Too High compared to all other countries, and it is not accidental.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/268826/health-expenditure-as-gdp-p
ercentage-in-oecd-countries
/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

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Monday, February 14, 2022 5:32 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Health expenditure as a percentage of gross domestic product (GDP) in selected countries in 2019. America is Far Too High compared to all other countries, and it is not accidental.



Yup. I just told you why that is. And Democrats are just as much to blame for it as Republicans are.

--------------------------------------------------

Vaccinated People: "You need to get muh vaccination shots that don't work because I got muh vaccination shots that don't work and I'm afraid of people that didn't get muh vaccination shots that don't work because muh vaccination shots that don't work don't work."

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Monday, February 14, 2022 7:32 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Health expenditure as a percentage of gross domestic product (GDP) in selected countries in 2019. America is Far Too High compared to all other countries, and it is not accidental.



Yup. I just told you why that is. And Democrats are just as much to blame for it as Republicans are.

How about the alternative explanation where the medical professionals are cheating everyone? If a politician tried to get single payer running in California, the wonderful doctors would invest their money in attack ads to end that politician's career.

The first step in single payer is to get rid of the California Constitutional amendment Prop 98, also called the "Classroom Instructional Improvement and Accountability Act," amending the California Constitution to mandate a minimum level of education spending about 40% of the state budget. It requires that as healthcare spending increases the state must increase spending by about the same amount of money on education. Fixing Prop 98 CANNOT wait until after single payer passes. It is either Prop 98 is removed from the Constitution or else California can't have single payer.

The history of Prop 98 is ridiculously complicated: https://lao.ca.gov/Publications/Report/3526

Apparently, a lot of people want to keep Prop 98, but as long as they do, there will be no single payer. For some reason, Californians don't want to understand that connection between one and the other.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

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Monday, February 14, 2022 11:53 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Health expenditure as a percentage of gross domestic product (GDP) in selected countries in 2019. America is Far Too High compared to all other countries, and it is not accidental.



Yup. I just told you why that is. And Democrats are just as much to blame for it as Republicans are.

How about the alternative explanation where the medical professionals are cheating everyone?



That is not an alternative situation. That is reality.

The two are absolutely not mutually exclusive.

The sooner you come to terms with the fact that Democrats are just as bad as Republicans are, the sooner we can have legitimate conversations.

--------------------------------------------------

Vaccinated People: "You need to get muh vaccination shots that don't work because I got muh vaccination shots that don't work and I'm afraid of people that didn't get muh vaccination shots that don't work because muh vaccination shots that don't work don't work."

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Tuesday, February 15, 2022 7:58 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

That is not an alternative situation. That is reality.

The two are absolutely not mutually exclusive.

The sooner you come to terms with the fact that Democrats are just as bad as Republicans are, the sooner we can have legitimate conversations.

Doctors are smart, they understand single payer is an attack on their income, and even more importantly, they understand the weakness of the political process.

Doctors know how, and have the money, to sabotage Democratic politicians. Doctors will never have to sabotage a Republican politician because there has never been a Republican politician that wanted to reduce doctors' income.

Republican voters might want single payer, but Republican politicians are not willing to kill their careers by fighting doctors. Some Democrats, not all, are willing but their tactics are as bad as in WWI, where soldiers run directly toward enemy machine gun fire. That was futile.

WWI was won by cutting off Germany's food supply, not by trench warfare. Too bad that some of the dumber Democrats haven't figured out how to win a war with Doctors and their Republican soldiers over single payer health care.
https://alphahistory.com/worldwar1/german-surrender/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

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Tuesday, February 15, 2022 11:34 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

That is not an alternative situation. That is reality.

The two are absolutely not mutually exclusive.

The sooner you come to terms with the fact that Democrats are just as bad as Republicans are, the sooner we can have legitimate conversations.

Doctors are smart, they understand single payer is an attack on their income, and even more importantly, they understand the weakness of the political process.

Doctors know how, and have the money, to sabotage Democratic politicians. Doctors will never have to sabotage a Republican politician because there has never been a Republican politician that wanted to reduce doctors' income.

Republican voters might want single payer, but Republican politicians are not willing to kill their careers by fighting doctors. Some Democrats, not all, are willing but their tactics are as bad as in WWI, where soldiers run directly toward enemy machine gun fire. That was futile.

WWI was won by cutting off Germany's food supply, not by trench warfare. Too bad that some of the dumber Democrats haven't figured out how to win a war with Doctors and their Republican soldiers over single payer health care.
https://alphahistory.com/worldwar1/german-surrender/



You know... I was going to say at first that this is another example of your hypocrisy getting you into trouble all the time...

But then it occurred to me that even though you're all in and believing all the lies they're told us about COVID, I don't seem to remember you having said one bad word about the Freedom Convoy.

I find this odd, since all of the fake news sites you regularly post links for all have bad things and lies to say about those people.


Here's your chance, bud. You don't even have to say anything here. Just start finding a way to get that money you keep saying you've got out there to help them. With tyrant Trudeau enacting Martial Law and freezing the bank accounts of good people, they could use it now more than ever.

--------------------------------------------------

Vaccinated People: "You need to get muh vaccination shots that don't work because I got muh vaccination shots that don't work and I'm afraid of people that didn't get muh vaccination shots that don't work because muh vaccination shots that don't work don't work."

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Wednesday, February 16, 2022 7:53 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

You know... I was going to say at first that this is another example of your hypocrisy getting you into trouble all the time...

But then it occurred to me that even though you're all in and believing all the lies they're told us about COVID, I don't seem to remember you having said one bad word about the Freedom Convoy.

I find this odd, since all of the fake news sites you regularly post links for all have bad things and lies to say about those people.

Here's your chance, bud. You don't even have to say anything here. Just start finding a way to get that money you keep saying you've got out there to help them. With tyrant Trudeau enacting Martial Law and freezing the bank accounts of good people, they could use it now more than ever.

Do you really think the Freedom Convoy is something I would support, if only I wasn't a hypocrite? That's funny.

6ix, you have a theory about how people's minds work that is, let me find a pleasant way to say this, unscientific. If you made a plot of what you, 6ix, expect someone to do versus what they did, and your data points don't fall on the predicted line, it means your expectations are incorrect, not that they are hypocrites.

I expect you, 6ix, have an incorrect theory of mind about doctors/politicians/single payer. You already flat out said that doctors are bribing Democratic politicians to not pass single payer. (Republicans do NOT have to be bribed because they want the doctors to be wealthy.) Bribery is NOT why single payer hasn't passed in California. It's that the American political system is uniquely weak, compared to all the other rich countries that already have single payer, when confronting wealthy doctors or anybody who is wealthy. Doctors in all other countries lost this political battle shortly after WWII, except in America, where the politicians were beaten up by the doctors.

American doctors have already maximized their wealth by minimizing the number of doctors. If they would do that to other potential doctors, they would do worse to American politicians attempting single payer.

Imagine you were planning a conspiracy to limit the number of doctors in America. Certainly, you’d make sure to have a costly, lengthy credentialing system. You would also tell politicians that America has too many doctors already. That way, you could purposefully constrain the number of medical-school students. You might freeze or slash funding for residencies and medical scholarships. You’d fight proposals to allow nurses to do the work of physicians. And because none of this would stop foreign-trained doctors from slipping into the country, you’d throw in some rules that made it onerous for immigrant doctors.

Okay, I think you’ve caught on by this point. America has already done all of this. Starting in the late 20th century, medical groups asserted that America had an oversupply of physicians. In response, medical schools restricted class sizes. From 1980 to 2005, the U.S. added 60 million people, but the number of medical-school matriculants basically flatlined. Seventeen years later, we are still digging out from under that moratorium.

The U.S. is one of the only developed countries to force aspiring doctors to earn a four-year bachelor’s degree and then go to medical school for another four years. (Most European countries have one continuous six-year program.) Then come the years of residency training. Many graduates have $200,000 to $400,000 in outstanding student loans when they enter the workforce. Medical education is a necessary good; nobody wants charlatans in the OR and snake-oil salesmen prescribing arthritis medication. What I’m asking is: What advantage do these additional years and loans get us? I suppose it’s conceivable that American doctors are 33 percent better than Swiss doctors, given our 33-percent-longer medical schooling. But good luck trying to find a national health statistic where the U.S. is one-third better than Switzerland. Americans die earlier than their European counterparts at every age and income level.

Overburdened with debt and eager to translate their long education into a high salary, American medical students are more likely to become specialists, where they tend to earn some of the highest doctor salaries in the world, in part because the U.S. does such an efficient job at limiting the supply of their labor.

As a matter of basic economics, fewer doctors means less care and more expensive services. A 2016 survey of patients in 11 countries—the U.S., Canada, New Zealand, and eight European nations—found that the U.S. trailed in providing timely access to primary medical care. High educational debts and fewer physicians push more health-care spending toward intensive and specialized services, which are more costly.

Naturally, some doctors might object to more competition for the same reason that some homeowners object to more local construction: They’re afraid that abundance will eat their wealth. But they should consider the other side of the coin, which is that having more doctors might make life better for doctors, who work much longer hours than their European peers. Doctor burnout and brutal 16-hour shifts for residents and M.D.s aren’t necessary tests of willpower; they’re just the inevitable result of not having enough people to do the work that today’s hospitals demand.

More at https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/02/why-does-the-us-make
-it-so-hard-to-be-a-doctor/622065
/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

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Wednesday, February 16, 2022 9:56 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Do you really think the Freedom Convoy is something I would support, if only I wasn't a hypocrite? That's funny.



No. You would still be a hypocrite whether or not you support the Freedom Convoy. You are a hypocrite on nearly every conceivable issue.

Quote:

You already flat out said that doctors are bribing Democratic politicians to not pass single payer.



I didn't say that.

--------------------------------------------------

Vaccinated People: "You need to get muh vaccination shots that don't work because I got muh vaccination shots that don't work and I'm afraid of people that didn't get muh vaccination shots that don't work because muh vaccination shots that don't work don't work."

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Wednesday, February 16, 2022 1:03 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by second:
You already flat out said that doctors are bribing Democratic politicians to not pass single payer.



I didn't say that.

Oops! You are correct! What you said was "business groups and health care companies on record opposing the measure had donated more than $1.2 Million to the California Democratic Party."

You gave details: Blue Shield and Anthem are both part of a coalition lobbying against the legislation, claiming it "would create a new and exorbitantly expensive government bureaucracy" and cause "significant job loss to California."

UnitedHealth Group, the nation's largest health insurer, is also opposing the single-payer bill, and has been pressing its employees to lobby California lawmakers against passing the legislation.

The insurance giant has contributed $130,000 to Newsom's campaigns since 2011, and $513,000 to the state Democratic party since 2007. In 2019, UnitedHealth Group and one of its subsidiaries donated $100,000 to Newsom's inaugural fund.
http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64855&mid=11502
45#1150245


6ix, I stay with my explanation. It is not insurance companies that make politicians scared of single payer although insurers would lose the business. It is in the name -- single payer -- which leaves no room for insurance companies and their highly profitable Medicare Advantage Plans. Doctors are what really scare politicians. Doctors as a group make much more profit from this system than insurance companies as a group.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

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