REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Impeachment Investigation Is Underway, Judiciary Committee Says

POSTED BY: THG
UPDATED: Sunday, February 2, 2020 15:19
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Tuesday, November 5, 2019 10:19 AM

THG


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by THG:
Quote:

Originally posted by THG:
I just spoke with a representative of a US Senator running for president. I suggested that if the republicans vote not to impeach Trump, it may have to go to the courts.

Why, because what Trump did is specifically mentioned in the constitution as being against the law. And if the evidence of Trumps guilt is overwhelming, then by virtue of their vote the Senate would be changing the constitution. For that you need a two thirds majority.

This would also apply to violations of the emolument's clause. Haven't thought about this long enough to see if it applies elsewhere but it may be the way forward.

tick tock donnie




Ok, I just called Adam Shiff and Pelosi. Enough, I just want this idea to be heard by one of them. May be gibberish but you never know.

This legal scheme won't work. If the Senate votes not guilty, then the House of Representatives appeals to the Supreme Court and it decides Trump is guilty, it will be the Senate, once again, that would vote to remove Trump.



Or, they can vote to deny him the right to run for reelection. That said, no one has a crystal ball.

T



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Tuesday, November 5, 2019 10:51 AM

THG


T

Indicted Giuliani Associate Is Ready To Cooperate With Impeachment Inquiry


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Tuesday, November 5, 2019 11:32 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


I'm sure Schiff and Pelosi's representatives will pass the message along. /sarcasm

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, November 5, 2019 11:58 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by THG:

Or, they can vote to deny him the right to run for reelection. That said, no one has a crystal ball.

I am certain that the Senate won't find Trump guilty, no matter what comes out about Trump's stupidity, laziness, or incompetence at doing the job of President in the next year, between Nov 5, 2019 and Nov 3, 2020.

I am certain that the Supreme Court will not take the case to decide if Trump is guilty despite the Senate voting NOT GUILTY. The Supreme Court would stall and waste a lot of time hemming and hawing until after the Nov 3, 2020 election.

What gets interesting is if Trump should lose the election. There is only a 50% chance he will lose. Then something unpredictable might happen. He might immediately give himself a pardon to avoid prosecution for tax evasion, then Trump resigns, then Trump hopes that President Mike Pence also gives him another pardon, just to be extra sure. Trump would probably fly Air Force One to Russia, where he resigns, than asks for political asylum.

If Trump wins, again a 50% chance, The Greatest Show on Earth will continue four more years. The Alternative? The 41 or more GOP Senators spend four years sabotaging a Democratic President. And they will do it, too. That won't be The Greatest Show. It will be awful.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, November 5, 2019 12:15 PM

THG


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by THG:

Or, they can vote to deny him the right to run for reelection. That said, no one has a crystal ball.

I am certain that the Senate won't find Trump guilty, no matter what comes out about Trump's stupidity, laziness, or incompetence at doing the job of President in the next year, between Nov 5, 2019 and Nov 3, 2020.

I am certain that the Supreme Court will not take the case to decide if Trump is guilty despite the Senate voting NOT GUILTY. The Supreme Court would stall and waste a lot of time hemming and hawing until after the Nov 3, 2020 election.

What gets interesting is if Trump should lose the election. There is only a 50% chance he will lose. Then something unpredictable might happen. He might immediately give himself a pardon to avoid prosecution for tax evasion, then Trump resigns, then Trump hopes that President Mike Pence also gives him another pardon, just to be extra sure. Trump would probably fly Air Force One to Russia, where he resigns, than asks for political asylum.

If Trump wins, again a 50% chance, The Greatest Show on Earth will continue four more years. The Alternative? The 41 or more GOP Senators spend four years sabotaging a Democratic President. And they can do, too. That won't be The Greatest Show. It will be awful.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly



Interesting post. OK think back and try and remember all the different legal issues regarding Trumps behavior since announcing his candidacy. I know, it's impossible. These attempts by Trump to skirt the law using the court system are all maturing, and he's losing.

It's possible without much maneuvering by the democrats, Trumps criminal behaviors will consume the airwaves for the unforeseeable future. My hope is that the American people will say enough. If they do what you've posted will not come to fruition. Something else entirely will.

T



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Tuesday, November 5, 2019 9:46 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-wrong-impeachers-11572649090

The Wrong Impeachers
A large swath of Trump-skeptical voters haven’t forgotten the Democrats’ Russia collusion hoax.

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Thursday, November 7, 2019 6:47 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



Democrats' 'Star Witness' Admits He Wasn't On Trump-Ukraine Call, Sole Source Was NY Times




https://www.zerohedge.com/political/democrats-release-impeachment-hear
ing-transcript-top-diplomat-ukraine


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Thursday, November 7, 2019 6:50 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


(Rand) Paul said in an interview Tuesday that the whistleblower “is a material witness to the possible corruption of Hunter Biden and Joe Biden.” He said Congress should investigate the whistleblower’s ties to the Biden family and Burisma Holdings, the Cyprus-registered gas company that paid Hunter Biden $50,000 per month when he was on its board of directors.

“[The whistleblower] might have traveled with Joe Biden to Ukraine for all we know. We should look at his writings. We should know all of this stuff to see whether or not he has any intersection with Burisma and with Hunter Biden,” said Paul.

Asked if he had evidence for any of these suppositions, Paul said, “We don’t know unless we ask.”


https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/paulmcleod/rand-paul-trump-whistl
eblower-ukraine-biden

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/rand-paul-subpoena-whistleblower-h
e-may-be-involved-corrupt-ukraine-dealings



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Friday, November 8, 2019 6:58 AM

THG


tick tock

T



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Friday, November 8, 2019 7:03 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


He's not a whistleblower.

He's a partisan hack that was working for prominent Democrats for years.

They've got nothing. This is nothing. Nothing will come of it.

Period.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Friday, November 8, 2019 5:29 PM

THG


T

‘It's Time For President Donald Trump To Throw Rudy From The Train’


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Saturday, November 9, 2019 9:39 AM

THG


Somebody's upset me thinks. Trump retweeted 17 messages in an hour hammering Democrats over the probe.

tick tock

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-tears-into-impeachment-p
robe-witnesses-in-early-twitter-spree/ar-BBWvDGZ?ocid=spartandhp


T



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Saturday, November 9, 2019 10:35 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
He's not a whistleblower.

He's a partisan hack that was working for prominent Democrats for years.

They've got nothing. This is nothing. Nothing will come of it.

Period.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

They've got the President's own words and the President did hold back $400 million from Ukraine, until Trump got caught, then the money was immediately released and the President pretended he had never held the money back for even a minute. Trump will keep lying nonstop about the $400 million.

Trump talks to Ukrainian President: Good because I heard you had a prosecutor who was very good and he was shut down and that's really unfair. A lot of people are talking about that, the way they shut your very good prosecutor down and you had some very bad people involved. Mr. Giuliani is a highly respected man. He was the mayor of New York City, a great mayor, and I would like him to call you. I will ask him to call you along with the Attorney General. Rudy very much knows what's happening and he is a very capable guy. If you could speak to him that would be great. The former ambassador from the United States, the woman, was bad news and the people she was dealing with in the Ukraine were bad news so I just want to let you know that. The other thing, There's a lot of talk about Biden's son, that Biden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that so whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great. Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so if you can look into it... It sounds horrible to me.

www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Unclassified09.2019.pdf

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Saturday, November 9, 2019 10:39 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
He's not a whistleblower.

He's a partisan hack that was working for prominent Democrats for years.

They've got nothing. This is nothing. Nothing will come of it.

Period.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

They've got the President's own words and the President did hold back $400 million from Ukraine, until Trump got caught, then the money was immediately released and the President pretended he had never held the money back for even a minute. Trump will keep lying nonstop about the $400 million.

Trump talks to Ukrainian President: Good because I heard you had a prosecutor who was very good and he was shut down and that's really unfair. A lot of people are talking about that, the way they shut your very good prosecutor down and you had some very bad people involved. Mr. Giuliani is a highly respected man. He was the mayor of New York City, a great mayor, and I would like him to call you. I will ask him to call you along with the Attorney General. Rudy very much knows what's happening and he is a very capable guy. If you could speak to him that would be great. The former ambassador from the United States, the woman, was bad news and the people she was dealing with in the Ukraine were bad news so I just want to let you know that. The other thing, There's a lot of talk about Biden's son, that Biden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that so whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great. Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so if you can look into it... It sounds horrible to me.

www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Unclassified09.2019.pdf

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly




THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO HAVE A PROBLEM WITH WHAT TRUMP DID ON THAT PHONE CALL ARE PEOPLE WHO WOULDN'T VOTE FOR TRUMP IN THE FIRST PLACE.

PERIOD.

If there is an actual vote for an actual impeachment at the end of this, which you know full well yourself will not end in Trump's removal from office, it's the end of the Democrat party as you know it.


I'm more pissed off about the fact that Trump is just another in a long line of men and women in the upper echelon of our Government and the bureaucracy that take our tax dollars and piss them away like this.



Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, November 9, 2019 11:04 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO HAVE A PROBLEM WITH WHAT TRUMP DID ON THAT PHONE CALL ARE PEOPLE WHO WOULDN'T VOTE FOR TRUMP IN THE FIRST PLACE.

PERIOD.

If there is an actual vote for an actual impeachment at the end of this, which you know full well yourself will not end in Trump's removal from office, it's the end of the Democrat party as you know it.

I'm more pissed off about the fact that Trump is just another in a long line of men and women in the upper echelon of our Government and the bureaucracy that take our tax dollars and piss them away like this.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

I personally know hundreds of people who have no problem with anything Trump has ever done. They never will have a problem with even his tax cheating. Considering that Mike Pence could do Trump's job better than Trump, it is not rational on their part, but most of their behavior, the stuff completely unrelated to politics, is not rational and not smart, either. That is why they ended up in the bottom 50% of the population. Somebody has got to be less than average, and these people volunteered, or made themselves, or were born to be that lower 50%. Too bad that they have delusions about Trump raising them upward into the top 50%. He ain't gonna do it for a bunch of dumb suckers, even when they vote for him again.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Saturday, November 9, 2019 11:11 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO HAVE A PROBLEM WITH WHAT TRUMP DID ON THAT PHONE CALL ARE PEOPLE WHO WOULDN'T VOTE FOR TRUMP IN THE FIRST PLACE.

PERIOD.

If there is an actual vote for an actual impeachment at the end of this, which you know full well yourself will not end in Trump's removal from office, it's the end of the Democrat party as you know it.

I'm more pissed off about the fact that Trump is just another in a long line of men and women in the upper echelon of our Government and the bureaucracy that take our tax dollars and piss them away like this.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

I personally know hundreds of people who have no problem with anything Trump has ever done. They never will have a problem with even his tax cheating. Considering that Mike Pence could do Trump's job better than Trump, it is not rational on their part, but most of their behavior, the stuff completely unrelated to politics, is not rational and not smart, either. That is why they ended up in the bottom 50% of the population. Somebody has got to be less than average, and these people volunteered, or made themselves, or were born to be that lower 50%. Too bad that they have delusions about Trump raising them upward into the top 50%. He ain't gonna do it for a bunch of dumb suckers, even when they vote for him again.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly




I don't give a shit if Trump cheated on his taxes because it's fully expected that Trump cheated on his taxes. The rich people have been paying far less than their fair share of taxes since the beginning with legal loopholes and high priced accountants and legal teams. If you were actually rich, which you're not, you would know full well what I'm talking about.


Your tax argument might hold some water if you idiots shut the fuck up for one single day the last three years about all of the "bombshells" that were going to get Trump removed from office that all turned out to be bullshit.


But here we are. It's partisan bullshit and you people are insane.


Happy to know that most of the Liberal idiot millennials aren't having kids and the problem will take care of itself in a generation or two.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, November 9, 2019 11:26 AM

THG


It is obvious Jack thinks it's OK for the president to bribe and extort other world leaders for personal gain, while putting our countries national security at risk. He claims only a partisan hack, someone who cares more about supporting a particular party or ideology than supporting what is morally right, or factually true have a problem with what Trump did.

It is sad second that Jack doesn't recognize the term partisan hack applies only to him and his fellow Trumpets.

T



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Saturday, November 9, 2019 11:35 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


How is withholding money that doesn't belong to them legitimately extortion?

If you've got a problem with the idea of a US politician bribing other world leaders with OUR tax dollars, I hate to break it to you, buddy, but that's been a bi-partisan fixture in our government for longer than most of us have been alive.


Ask yourself why Trump would want to remove Biden in the first place? It doesn't even make any sense when people say this was for personal gain. Trump's easiest opponent in the General would be Biden. He can't even remember Obama's name in speeches.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, November 9, 2019 11:39 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Now... if you'd like to accuse Trump of forcing Nancy to make the impeachment a formal affair which means that it could completely derail Warren and Sanders from their campaign trail and make Biden a lock for his General opponent, I'll agree with you there.

But you're going to be pretty hard pressed to prove that the Democrats didn't do that to themselves, unless you want to start claiming that Trump is using some sort of experimental mind control powers that were cooked up in one of Putin's Psy-Ops labs or something.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, November 9, 2019 1:20 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by THG:
while putting our countries national security at risk

Jeeze THUGGER, how many COUNTRIES are we?

But to address your basic stupidity - explain to me EXACTLY how US national security is threatened by anything that happens in Ukraine. And I mean IN DETAIL.

A billion flies eat shit.

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Saturday, November 9, 2019 9:28 PM

THG


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Quote:

Originally posted by THG:
while putting our countries national security at risk

Jeeze THUGGER, how many COUNTRIES are we?

But to address your basic stupidity - explain to me EXACTLY how US national security is threatened by anything that happens in Ukraine. And I mean IN DETAIL.

A billion flies eat shit.



Geez, are you trying to make me laugh myself to death? If so you just about made it.

T



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Saturday, November 9, 2019 9:30 PM

THG


In Seeking to Join Suit Over Subpoena Power, Mulvaney Goes Up Against the President

TUSCALOOSA, Ala. — Even in a White House of never-befores, this may be one of the more head-spinning: The president’s chief of staff is trying to join a lawsuit against the president.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/in-seeking-to-join-suit-over-s
ubpoena-power-mulvaney-goes-up-against-the-president/ar-BBWwgal?ocid=spartandhp


Oh my...

tick tock

T



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Saturday, November 9, 2019 10:43 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
- explain to me EXACTLY how US national security is threatened by anything that happens in Ukraine. And I mean IN DETAIL.-


Quote:

Originally posted by THG:

Geez, are you trying to make me laugh myself to death? If so you just about made it.

I noticed you couldn't answer the question. So I'll keep asking it, just to make it painfully obvious to everyone - shit, as stupid as you are, maybe even you - that you have to keep dodging it until you eventually have to abandon any pretense of even minimal intelligence.

Just so you don't miss it: - explain to me EXACTLY how US national security is threatened by anything that happens in Ukraine. And I mean IN DETAIL.-

A billion flies eat shit.

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Sunday, November 10, 2019 8:59 AM

THG


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:

So I'll keep asking it, just to make it painfully obvious to everyone - shit, as stupid as you are, maybe even you - that you have to keep dodging it until you eventually have to abandon any pretense of even minimal intelligence.




What? Maybe you should stop criticizing how others write until you've learned to write a proper comprehensible sentence.

T


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Sunday, November 10, 2019 10:11 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


You STILL can't answer the question THUGGER? You know, it's an important question. Everyone says the reason what Trump did with Zelensky was bad was because it jeopardized national security.

So here is my question again, in gold ... just so you don't miss it: - explain to me EXACTLY how US national security is threatened by anything that happens in Ukraine. And I mean IN DETAIL.-

A billion flies eat shit.

PS I'm sorry your reading comprehension is so poor. But this is a simple enough post. Even you can understand it.

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Sunday, November 10, 2019 10:23 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
You STILL can't answer the question THUGGER? You know, it's an important question. Everyone says the reason what Trump did with Zelensky was bad was because it jeopardized national security.

So here is my question again, in gold ... just so you don't miss it: - explain to me EXACTLY how US national security is threatened by anything that happens in Ukraine. And I mean IN DETAIL.-

Nobody says that, 1kiki. What they say is that politicians must not use tax money to get themselves reelected. Trump used $400 million of tax money to get Ukraine to torpedo Trump's political competitor in 2019, Joe Biden. Only last week Trump admitted to using tax money to get himself elected in 2016. He reduced his own taxes by using fake charitable deductions and directed the charity to help his campaign. He should be impeached over that, too.

Trump’s charity woes are uncommon, if not unprecedented, and could get more costly

It’s unprecedented that a sitting president of the United States officially admits to this kind of wrongdoing and agrees to formal supervision if he should ever venture back into the charitable world. And while it’s not unheard of, it’s uncommon for legal authorities to order anyone to spend millions of dollars to compensate the public for misusing charitable funds under their control.

One reason is that it’s pretty hard to get caught. For the most part, charity laws and regulations are not subject to across-the-board enforcement at the state level or by the IRS.

The closest precedent involving the White House and charitable transgressions that comes to mind occurred half a century ago.

President Richard Nixon’s attorneys falsified documents from him to take a tax deduction on the value of his pre-presidential papers he said he’d donated to the National Archives prior to July 25, 1969.

After an IRS employee leaked information about Nixon’s tax return, he agreed to allow the Joint Committee on Internal Revenue Taxation to examine the propriety of his returns from that time. It found other failures to boot. Nixon had to pay more than $450,000 in back taxes and interest.

More at http://theconversation.com/trumps-charity-woes-are-uncommon-if-not-unp
recedented-and-could-get-more-costly-126652


Nixon's tax cheating was a factor in his resignation. GOP Senators told Nixon they were feed up with his general crookedness on his taxes and other things. But crookedness stopped bothering GOP Senators sometime in the 21st Century. Nixon would not be asked by GOP Senators from nowadays to resign.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, November 10, 2019 10:32 AM

THG


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
You STILL can't answer the question THUGGER? You know, it's an important question. Everyone says the reason what Trump did with Zelensky was bad was because it jeopardized national security.

So here is my question again, in gold ... just so you don't miss it: - explain to me EXACTLY how US national security is threatened by anything that happens in Ukraine.




Better kiki. Not great but better.

Encouraged a foreign nation to interfere with U.S. elections.

Opened up the President of the United States to blackmail.

Helps Russia, a top adversary and national security threat to the United States.
Stopped substantial military aid the U.S. Congress determined to be in America’s national interest from reaching its intended recipient (restored only after the scandal became public).

Ukraine is a buffer between Putin’s aggressive Russia and four NATO allies the U.S. is sworn to defend if attacked. If Russia takes over Ukraine due to an inability to defend themselves as a result of U.S. military aid not reaching them, the U.S. is more likely to either go to war, or have to invest substantially more in proactive defense. Russian troops just over the border from four more NATO members is dangerous.

Makes other countries less likely to take American promises of military aid seriously. Ukraine is vulnerable, in part, because the U.S. convinced them to give up their nuclear weapons, in exchange for assurance that we would help them defend themselves from Russia.

Weakening a vulnerable nation under attack makes the world less stable and makes it more likely the U.S. will suffer negative reverberations.

If Ukraine’s anti-Russia, anti-corruption leader loses political power because the United States undermined him, his replacement may be more Putin-friendly and expand Putin’s influence against U.S. interests.

Improperly using the highest national security secrecy systems to hide political secrets and misconduct weakens them.

Discourages other potential whistleblowers from reporting problems, making future national security vulnerabilities more likely.

Discourages dedicated American patriots from going into, or remaining in, public service (intelligence, military, law enforcement, politics, civil service, etc.) when the president is undermining their efforts, corrupting systems, cheating in elections, putting personal interests ahead of national interests, etc.

Allowing two straight U.S. elections to be undermined by foreign powers shows the U.S. to be weak and encourages future attacks.

T



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Sunday, November 10, 2019 10:59 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Alexander Vindman was listening to Trump's Ukrainian phone call. Congress asked him what he heard for 10 hours and 340 pages, about 100 times longer than the actual phone call.
www.npr.org/2019/11/08/777514772/read-testimony-of-alexander-vindman-t
he-white-houses-ukraine-specialist


Vindman is a military man in a job that puts a premium on discretion — and the commander in chief, without evidence, calls him a “Never Trumper witness.” That is pretty much an impeachable offense, right there, but it gets worse:

Vindman’s brush with fame quickly got ugly. On Fox News, Laura Ingraham described him as “a U.S. national security official who is advising Ukraine while working inside the White House, apparently against the president’s interests,” and John Yoo, a Justice Department official in the George W. Bush administration, replied that “some people might call that espionage.” On CNN, former congressman Sean P. Duffy (R-Wis.) suggested that Vindman “has an affinity, I think, for the Ukraine.”

Real nice smear campaign that Trump is running. That ought to be impeachable. But Trump will deny everything he did to smear lieutenant colonel Vindman, so, no impeachment.

www.washingtonpost.com/politics/alexander-vindman-soviet-emigre-and-de
corated-us-army-officer-wanted-to-be-as-american-as-can-be-now-the-president-questions-his-motives/2019/11/08/6ded69d4-fff8-11e9-8501-2a7123a38c58_story.html


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, November 10, 2019 11:48 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


This is all getting so very boring.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Sunday, November 10, 2019 12:27 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:


You STILL can't answer the question THUGGER? You know, it's an important question. Everyone says the reason what Trump did with Zelensky was bad was because it jeopardized national security.
So here is my question again, in gold ... just so you don't miss it: - explain to me EXACTLY how US national security is threatened by anything that happens in Ukraine. -KIKI

Better kiki. Not great but better.

Encouraged a foreign nation to interfere with U.S. elections.

Baloney. Asked a foreign nation to cooperate with an ongoing investigation.

But if you think what Trump did was bad, how about ... asking Britain, Ukraine, and Australia to cooperate with an illegal counterintelligence operation against a candidate? Making shit up about that candidate (called the "steele dossier") and leaking it to the press?

Quote:

Opened up the President of the United States to blackmail.
How? There was no crime, so ... no blackmail. Hard as you try to turn this event into something that it wasn't (Did you read the transcript?) there's no "there" there.

Quote:

Helps Russia,
How?

Quote:

Stopped substantial military aid the U.S. Congress determined to be in America’s national interest from reaching its intended recipient (restored only after the scandal became public).
Jeezus, are you saying that Ukraine is a vital ally in our fight against Russia?

Hmmm... are we at war with Russia? Is Ukraine an ally?

Quote:

Ukraine is a buffer between Putin’s aggressive Russia and four NATO allies the U.S. is sworn to defend if attacked.
Ukraine is NOT an ally, theefore we are not "sworn" to defend it if it is attacked. Up until the USA-engineered coup in 2016, Ukraine was in fact a part of the Russian economic bloc. If Ukraine reverts to the Russian economic bloc, not much will have changed.

Quote:

If Russia takes over Ukraine due to an inability to defend themselves as a result of U.S. military aid not reaching them, the U.S. is more likely to either go to war, or have to invest substantially more in proactive defense. Russian troops just over the border from four more NATO members is dangerous.
well, maybe WE xhould have thought of that before we expanded NATO eastward.

[qoute]Makes other countries less likely to take American promises of military aid seriously.
Good. We promise too much military aid to too many nations. It might help them remember that aid is VOLUNTARY ... it can be started AND STOPPED based on our interests.

Quote:

Ukraine is vulnerable, in part, because the U.S. convinced them to give up their nuclear weapons, in exchange for assurance that we would help them defend themselves from Russia.
More baloney from THUGR!

The USA, Russia and Britain agreed not to attack Ukraine or to threaten its economic or political integrity. We broke that promise when we engineered a coup in Ukraine. our agreement with Ukraine was NOT a defense agreement.

Quote:

Weakening a vulnerable nation under attack makes the world less stable and makes it more likely the U.S. will suffer negative reverberations.
Maybe we should have thought of that before we engineered a coup and destroyed the Ukrainian economy.

Quote:

If Ukraine’s anti-Russia, anti-corruption leader ...
Quote:


who presumably would have an interest in investigating the corruption within Ukraine .. loses political power because the United States undermined him, his replacement may be more Putin-friendly and expand Putin’s influence against U.S. interests.

OUR interests? Where? In Ukraine?

Quote:

Improperly using the highest national security secrecy systems to hide political secrets and misconduct weakens them.
Obama used the same server for the same purpose. But since the content of he phone call was revaled, it seems there was no "there" there.

Quote:

Discourages other potential whistleblowers from reporting problems, making future national security vulnerabilities more likely.
Son, a "whistleblower" is one who reports a wrongdoing within his own agency. Ed Snowden is whistelblower. Chelsea Manning is a whistleblower. John Kiriakou is a whistleblower. Thomas Drake is a whistleblower. Consider how THEY'RE being treated. Isn't THAT more discouraging to whistleblowers: Being arrested and persecuted by their onw government?

Quote:

Discourages dedicated American patriots from going into, or remaining in, public service (intelligence, military, law enforcement, politics, civil service, etc.) when the president is undermining their efforts, corrupting systems, cheating in elections, putting personal interests ahead of national interests, etc.
"Dedicated" to hom and to what? The deep state?

Quote:

Allowing two straight U.S. elections to be undermined by foreign powers shows the U.S. to be weak and encourages future attacks.
Sure.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

You idiots have been oppressing the entire sexual spectrum as long as you have existed. I can't wait for the day your kind is dead - WISHIMAY

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Sunday, November 10, 2019 12:55 PM

THG


Wrong sig. Everything you post is wrong comrade. Not to worry though, I'm sure you're Putin's favorite.

And its dedicated to whom not hom. And its own not onw. And you spelled whistleblower whistelblower once. And its content of the phone call not he phone call. And its phone call revealed not reveled. And our in our agreement should be capitalized. It starts a new sentence.

T



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Sunday, November 10, 2019 2:05 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
You STILL can't answer the question THUGGER? You know, it's an important question. Everyone says the reason why what Trump did with Zelensky was bad was because it jeopardized US national security.

So here is my question again, in gold ... just so you don't miss it: - explain to me EXACTLY how US national security is threatened by anything that happens in Ukraine.

Quote:

Originally posted by THG:


Encouraged a foreign nation to interfere with U.S. elections.

Opened up the President of the United States to blackmail.

Helps Russia, a top adversary and national security threat to the United States.
Stopped substantial military aid the U.S. Congress determined to be in America’s national interest from reaching its intended recipient (restored only after the scandal became public).

Ukraine is a buffer between Putin’s aggressive Russia and four NATO allies the U.S. is sworn to defend if attacked. If Russia takes over Ukraine due to an inability to defend themselves as a result of U.S. military aid not reaching them, the U.S. is more likely to either go to war, or have to invest substantially more in proactive defense. Russian troops just over the border from four more NATO members is dangerous.

Makes other countries less likely to take American promises of military aid seriously. Ukraine is vulnerable, in part, because the U.S. convinced them to give up their nuclear weapons, in exchange for assurance that we would help them defend themselves from Russia.

Weakening a vulnerable nation under attack makes the world less stable and makes it more likely the U.S. will suffer negative reverberations.

If Ukraine’s anti-Russia, anti-corruption leader loses political power because the United States undermined him, his replacement may be more Putin-friendly and expand Putin’s influence against U.S. interests.

Improperly using the highest national security secrecy systems to hide political secrets and misconduct weakens them.

Discourages other potential whistleblowers from reporting problems, making future national security vulnerabilities more likely.

Discourages dedicated American patriots from going into, or remaining in, public service (intelligence, military, law enforcement, politics, civil service, etc.) when the president is undermining their efforts, corrupting systems, cheating in elections, putting personal interests ahead of national interests, etc.

Allowing two straight U.S. elections to be undermined by foreign powers shows the U.S. to be weak and encourages future attacks.


https://www.outsidethebeltway.com/the-less-americans-know-about-ukrain
e-the-more-they-support-intervening-there
/

The Less Americans Know About Ukraine, The More They Support Intervening There

Here's a map of Europe and western Russia, with the countries labeled.



I know that most people couldn't find Ukraine without those labels, even more, they probably couldn't find Europe.

But looking at this map, which countries do YOU see are on Ukraine's border that might reasonably be 'threatened'? Because I strain to see the Ukrainian-US border anywhere. In fact, there's 4,864 mi between Washington DC, and Kiev.

Even more, I find no US allies on Ukraine's border. I see Moldova, Hungary, Romania, Slovakia, Poland, and Belarus. They're NATO members, but not US allies.

EVEN IF - and I see no reason to imagine that would happen - Russia were to take over Ukraine, I fail to see how that could pose a security risk TO THE US.

So, you STILL haven't answered the question! You know, it's an important question. Everyone says the reason why what Trump did with Zelensky was bad was because it jeopardized US national security. They weren't talking about Belarus's national security, or Moldova's national security. They claimed to be talking about the US's national security. Yanno, MY country - a country whose interests I take seriously. (I don't know which country has YOUR loyalties, but it's clearly NOT the US. The US is a tool to you. You're hoping WE will sacrifice some part of ourselves for YOUR interests.)

So here is my question again, in gold ... just so you don't miss it: - explain to me EXACTLY how US national security is threatened by anything that happens in Ukraine.

IN DETAIL.


A billion flies eat shit.

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Sunday, November 10, 2019 2:27 PM

THG


Shoo comrade kiki. I answered your question proving the point and you respond with gibberish. Same as you always do.

T



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Sunday, November 10, 2019 2:30 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


No, you spouted some sort of gibberish about non-existent 'allies', about non-existent extortion threats (with everyone listening in no less !!!), about Russia something or other, and so on.

You failed to answer the question - HOW IS **US** NATIONAL SECURITY THREATENED?


The Less Americans Know About Ukraine, The More They Support Intervening There

Here's a map of Europe and western Russia, with the countries labeled.



I know that most people couldn't find Ukraine without those labels, even more, they probably couldn't find Europe.

But looking at this map, which countries do YOU see are on Ukraine's border that might reasonably be 'threatened'? Because I strain to see the Ukrainian-US border anywhere. In fact, there's 4,864 mi between Washington DC, and Kiev.

Even more, I find no US allies on Ukraine's border. I see Moldova, Hungary, Romania, Slovakia, Poland, and Belarus. They're NATO members, but not US allies.

EVEN IF - and I see no reason to imagine that would happen - Russia were to take over Ukraine, I fail to see how that could pose a security risk TO THE US.

So, you STILL haven't answered the question! You know, it's an important question. Everyone says the reason why what Trump did with Zelensky was bad was because it jeopardized US national security. They weren't talking about Belarus's national security, or Moldova's national security. They claimed to be talking about the US's national security. Yanno, MY country - a country whose interests I take seriously. (I don't know which country has YOUR loyalties, but it's clearly NOT the US. The US is a tool to you. You're hoping WE will sacrifice some part of ourselves for YOUR interests.)

So here is my question again, in gold ... just so you don't miss it: - explain to me EXACTLY how US national security is threatened by anything that happens in Ukraine.

IN DETAIL.


A billion flies eat shit.

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Sunday, November 10, 2019 2:39 PM

THG


kiki I told you when you troll me in my own link I'll respond to you in the garden thread. So, that's where you can read my post.

T



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Sunday, November 10, 2019 2:53 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


I can't help it if you can't answer a simple question, THUGGER - and have to resort to trolling, propaganda, lies, libel, and threats.

It's a really simple question. It's a question you SHOULD be able to answer if you sincerely think US NATIONAL SECURITY is threatened by anything that happens in Ukraine.

Signy and I both have already exposed your propaganda talking points as being false.

So I need to ask the question - AGAIN - because you can't seem to answer it.

Everyone says the reason why what Trump did with Zelensky was bad was because it jeopardized US national security. They weren't talking about Belarus's national security, or Moldova's national security. They claimed to be talking about the US's national security.

Yanno, the US is MY country - a country whose interests I take seriously. (I don't know which country has YOUR loyalties, but it's clearly NOT the US. The US is a tool to you. You're hoping WE will sacrifice some part of ourselves for YOUR interests.)

So here is my question again, in gold ... just so you don't miss it: - explain to me EXACTLY how US national security is threatened by anything that happens in Ukraine.

IN DETAIL.


A billion flies eat shit.


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Sunday, November 10, 2019 3:16 PM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
I can't help it if you can't answer a simple question, THUGGER - and have to resort to trolling, propaganda, lies, libel, and threats.

It's a really simple question. It's a question you SHOULD be able to answer if you sincerely think US NATIONAL SECURITY is threatened by anything that happens in Ukraine.

Signy and I both have already exposed your propaganda talking points as being false.

So I need to ask the question - AGAIN - because you can't seem to answer it.

Everyone says the reason why what Trump did with Zelensky was bad was because it jeopardized US national security. They weren't talking about Belarus's national security, or Moldova's national security. They claimed to be talking about the US's national security.

Yanno, the US is MY country - a country whose interests I take seriously. (I don't know which country has YOUR loyalties, but it's clearly NOT the US. The US is a tool to you. You're hoping WE will sacrifice some part of ourselves for YOUR interests.)

So here is my question again, in gold ... just so you don't miss it: - explain to me EXACTLY how US national security is threatened by anything that happens in Ukraine.

IN DETAIL.
A billion flies eat shit.





It proves our president will sell US “treasure” (javelins) for his personal gain (dirt on a political rival) - duh.
Amuse us with your weak reply.

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Sunday, November 10, 2019 3:27 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"It proves our president will sell US “treasure” (javelins) for his personal gain (dirt on a political rival) - duh."

Only in your craziest dreams. Because nothing that Trump (supposedly) said (according to second-hand gossip) actually came true.

Meanwhile, all this flap is claimed to be about Trump jeopardizing US national security.

Since THUGGER can't seem to cough up an answer involving US national security in Ukraine, maybe YOU can.

A billion flies eat shit.

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Sunday, November 10, 2019 3:52 PM

THG


Quote:

Originally posted by captaincrunch:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
I can't help it if you can't answer a simple question, THUGGER - and have to resort to trolling, propaganda, lies, libel, and threats.

It's a really simple question. It's a question you SHOULD be able to answer if you sincerely think US NATIONAL SECURITY is threatened by anything that happens in Ukraine.

Signy and I both have already exposed your propaganda talking points as being false.

So I need to ask the question - AGAIN - because you can't seem to answer it.

Everyone says the reason why what Trump did with Zelensky was bad was because it jeopardized US national security. They weren't talking about Belarus's national security, or Moldova's national security. They claimed to be talking about the US's national security.

Yanno, the US is MY country - a country whose interests I take seriously. (I don't know which country has YOUR loyalties, but it's clearly NOT the US. The US is a tool to you. You're hoping WE will sacrifice some part of ourselves for YOUR interests.)

So here is my question again, in gold ... just so you don't miss it: - explain to me EXACTLY how US national security is threatened by anything that happens in Ukraine.

IN DETAIL.
A billion flies eat shit.





It proves our president will sell US “treasure” (javelins) for his personal gain (dirt on a political rival) - duh.
Amuse us with your weak reply.


I post what’s being reported on in the news and kiki calls it propaganda. She still doesn’t realize it’s different in America than it is in Russia. Our mainstream media isn't propaganda. And it shouldn't be seen as such. Unless of course you're nuts.


T



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Sunday, November 10, 2019 4:15 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
"It proves our president will sell US “treasure” (javelins) for his personal gain (dirt on a political rival) - duh."

Only in your craziest dreams. Because nothing that Trump (supposedly) said (according to second-hand gossip) actually came true.

Meanwhile, all this flap is claimed to be about Trump jeopardizing US national security.

Since THUGGER can't seem to cough up an answer involving US national security in Ukraine, maybe YOU can.

“We have enough evidence from the depositions that we’ve done to warrant bringing this forward. Evidence of an extortion scheme, using taxpayer dollars to ask a foreign government to investigate the president’s opponent.

“But it’s important that these witnesses raise their right hands and take questions from both Republicans and Democrats. The president is going to get that.”

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-impeachmen
t-inquiry-ukraine-extortion-eric-swalwell-latest-a9197506.html


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, November 10, 2019 4:34 PM

THG


It looks as though Veterans across the country are going public. They are telling Congress that they fought for American democracy and they want Congress to do so now. All that's left to say is tick tock second.

T



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Sunday, November 10, 2019 4:50 PM

THG


Iraq veteran: We defended American democracy. Now we're asking Congress to do the same.

Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman and I took the same oath to serve America and the Constitution. And in Iraq, in October 2004, we bled on the same sand.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/voices/2019/11/07/veterans-defe
nded-american-democracy-now-congress-must-step-up-column/4169710002
/

tick tock

T



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Sunday, November 10, 2019 4:51 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by THG:
It looks as though Veterans across the country are telling Congress that they fought for American democracy and they want Congress to do so now. All that's left to say is tick tock second.

T



I already know that Senators Ted Cruz and John Cornyn from Texas will vote Trump as Not Guilty of anything ever in his life. But when they do, perhaps a few veterans will remember that the next time Cruz and Cornyn are on the ballot.

“The president of the United States demanding – extorting – a vulnerable country to do his political bidding, to go after his opponent, has nothing to do with Joe Biden executing the foreign policy of the United States.

“What the president did is wrong and impeachable.”

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-impeachmen
t-inquiry-ukraine-extortion-eric-swalwell-latest-a9197506.html


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, November 10, 2019 4:53 PM

THG


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by THG:
It looks as though Veterans across the country are telling Congress that they fought for American democracy and they want Congress to do so now. All that's left to say is tick tock second.

T



I already know that Senators Ted Cruz and John Cornyn from Texas will vote Trump as Not Guilty of anything ever in his life. But when they do, perhaps a few veterans will remember that the next time Cruz and Cornyn are on the ballot.

“The president of the United States demanding – extorting – a vulnerable country to do his political bidding, to go after his opponent, has nothing to do with Joe Biden executing the foreign policy of the United States.

“What the president did is wrong and impeachable.”

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-impeachmen
t-inquiry-ukraine-extortion-eric-swalwell-latest-a9197506.html





What will be will be second.

T



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Sunday, November 10, 2019 4:58 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by THG:
It looks as though Veterans across the country are going public. They are telling Congress that they fought for American democracy and they want Congress to do so now. All that's left to say is tick tock second.

Veterans fought for **OUR** democracy in **UKRAINE** ??

Which country are YOU from, THUGGER?

Because I'm from the US and MY democracy is HERE in the US.

YOU want to hold the democratically-elected US government hostage to foreign powers and foreign interests. Fuck your shit, and fuck your anti-US, anti-democracy propaganda.



A billion flies eat shit.

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Sunday, November 10, 2019 5:14 PM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
"It proves our president will sell US “treasure” (javelins) for his personal gain (dirt on a political rival) - duh."

Only in your craziest dreams. Because nothing that Trump (supposedly) said (according to second-hand gossip) actually came true.

Meanwhile, all this flap is claimed to be about Trump jeopardizing US national security.

Since THUGGER can't seem to cough up an answer involving US national security in Ukraine, maybe YOU can.

A billion flies eat shit.



lol - stupid or lying or both, as usual, and always a waste of time.

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Sunday, November 10, 2019 5:37 PM

THG


Quote:

Originally posted by captaincrunch:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
"It proves our president will sell US “treasure” (javelins) for his personal gain (dirt on a political rival) - duh."

Only in your craziest dreams. Because nothing that Trump (supposedly) said (according to second-hand gossip) actually came true.

Meanwhile, all this flap is claimed to be about Trump jeopardizing US national security.

Since THUGGER can't seem to cough up an answer involving US national security in Ukraine, maybe YOU can.

A billion flies eat shit.



lol - stupid or lying or both, as usual, and always a waste of time.



Really G. And when you read what she wrote it's very apparent she doesn't understand what democracy means, or even what our veterans are talking about.

T



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Sunday, November 10, 2019 5:44 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
"It proves our president will sell US “treasure” (javelins) for his personal gain (dirt on a political rival) - duh."

Only in your craziest dreams. Because nothing that Trump (supposedly) said (according to second-hand gossip) actually came true.

Meanwhile, all this flap is claimed to be about Trump jeopardizing US national security.

Since THUGGER can't seem to cough up an answer involving US national security in Ukraine, maybe YOU can.

A billion flies eat shit.

Quote:

Originally posted by captaincrunch:
lol - stupid or lying or both, as usual, and always a waste of time.

It's a simple question. You must be as stupid as THUGGER, since you can't seem to answer it either.

Here is my question again, in gold ... just so you don't miss it: - explain to me EXACTLY how US national security is threatened by anything that happens in Ukraine.

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Sunday, November 10, 2019 5:48 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by THG:
Really G. And when you read what she wrote it's very apparent she doesn't understand what democracy means, or even what our veterans are talking about.

I understand perfectly what democracy means, THUGGER.

I just don't think you're talking ABOUT THE US. MY COUNTRY.

Which country are YOU from, THUGGER?

Because I'm from the US and MY democracy is HERE in the US.

YOU want to hold the democratically-elected US government hostage to foreign powers and foreign interests. Fuck your shit, and fuck your anti-US, anti-democracy propaganda.


A billion flies eat shit.

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Sunday, November 10, 2019 5:57 PM

THG


Let's just say I served when Nixon was president comrade. He was my commander and chief. Figure it out.

T



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human actions, global climate change, global human solutions
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Russia Invades Ukraine. Again
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No matter what happens...
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