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Seattle Has Figured Out How to End the War on Drugs

POSTED BY: CAPTAINCRUNCH
UPDATED: Monday, August 24, 2020 20:48
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Sunday, August 25, 2019 12:10 PM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

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https://nyti.ms/30sSnGj

Seattle Has Figured Out How to End the War on Drugs
While other cities are jailing drug users, Seattle has found another way.

By Nicholas Kristof
Opinion Columnist
Published Aug. 23, 2019

SEATTLE — On gritty streets where heroin, fentanyl and meth stride like Death Eaters, where for decades both drugs and the war on drugs have wrecked lives, the city of Seattle is pioneering a bold approach to narcotics that should be a model for America.

Anyone caught here with a small amount of drugs — even heroin — isn’t typically prosecuted. Instead, that person is steered toward social services to get help.

This model is becoming the consensus preference among public health experts in the U.S. and abroad. Still, it shocks many Americans to see no criminal penalty for using drugs illegally, so it takes courage and vision to adopt this approach: a partial retreat in the war on drugs coupled with a stepped-up campaign against addiction.

The war on drugs has been one of America’s most grievous mistakes, resulting in as many citizens with arrest records as with college diplomas. At last count, an American was arrested for drug possession every 25 seconds, yet the mass incarceration this leads to has not turned the tide on narcotics.
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The number of opioid users has surged, and more Americans now die each year from overdoses than perished in the Vietnam, Afghan and Iraq wars combined. And that doesn’t account for the way drug addiction has ripped apart families and stunted children’s futures. More than two million children in America live with a parent suffering from an illicit-drug dependency.

So Seattle is undertaking what feels like the beginning of a historic course correction, with other cities discussing how to follow. This could be far more consequential than the legalization of pot: By some estimates, nearly half of Americans have a family member or close friend enmeshed in addiction, and if the experiment in Seattle succeeds, we’ll have a chance to rescue America from our own failed policies.

In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs. It is relying less on the criminal justice toolbox to deal with hard drugs and more on the public health toolbox.

Decriminalization is unfolding here in part because of Dan Satterberg, the prosecuting attorney for King County, which includes Seattle. It’s also arguably underway because of what happened to his little sister, Shelley Kay Satterberg.

At the age of 14, Shelley ran away from home because her parents wouldn’t let her go to a concert on a school night. It was a rebellion that proved devastating. She was away for several months, was gang-raped by two men, was introduced to hard drugs and began to self-medicate with those drugs to deal with the trauma of rape.

A photo of Mr. Satterberg’s sister, Shelley Kay Satterberg, and his daughter sits on his office desk. His sister died from an ailment stemming from past drug use.CreditRuth Fremson/The New York Times
As Dan Satterberg rose through the ranks of prosecutors, Shelley Satterberg wrestled with addiction. She was never arrested or jailed (middle-class drug users often avoid police attention, which focuses on marginalized people who use or sell in public).

Dan told me that he was angry at Shelley — angry that she had made terrible choices, angry that she had hurt their parents. But over time he also concluded that his own approach of prosecuting drug users accomplished little, except that it isolated them from the family and friends who offered the best support system to escape addiction.

In 2015, Dan took Shelley to Navos, a nonprofit that provides mental health and addiction services, and she was able to stop using street drugs and gradually put her life back in order. Dan saw that treatment made a huge difference in Shelley’s life and became a believer.

Yet it wasn’t enough. Shelley died of a urinary tract infection last year at age 51, a consequence of previous drug and alcohol abuse.

“It gave me some insight about what works better than jail,” Dan Satterberg told me. “What Shelley needed was not a jail cell and not a judge wagging a finger at her, but she needed some support.”
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Seattle’s first crucial step came in 2011 when Satterberg and others started a program called LEAD, short for Law Enforcement Assisted Diversion. The idea is that instead of simply arresting drug users for narcotics or prostitution, police officers watch for those who are nonviolent and want help, and divert them to social service programs and intensive case management.

Almost immediately, this was a huge success. A 2017 peer-reviewed study found that drug users assigned to LEAD were 58 percent less likely to be rearrested, compared with a control group. Participants were also almost twice as likely to have housing as they had been before entering LEAD, and 46 percent more likely to be employed or getting job training.

LEAD isn’t cheap — it costs about $350 per month per participant to provide case managers. But it is cheaper than jail, courts and costs associated with homelessness. As a result, this approach has spread rapidly around the country, with 59 localities now offering LEAD initiatives or rolling them out.

Chian Jennings, 45, who had struggled with drugs for years, living in the streets and financing her habit by selling sex and by stealing, was smoking crack when a policeman stopped her.

Through LEAD, Jennings got medical care, clothing and housing. She also gained confidence in herself, people who cared for her and the idea that life could get better. “They’re some of the most caring people I’ve ever met,” she said of the counselors. “Whether you come in high or not, they always treat you with respect.” Now, she said, “I work to make them proud of me.”

Jennings remains a work in progress. She says she still sometimes uses cocaine, but less over time, and she adds that she’s no longer stealing. If she had been held in jail, she said, “it would have pissed me off, and I would have gotten high when I got out. I’d still be homeless, stealing for food and drug money.”

Prison, she says, just makes people more miserable and more dependent on drugs when they are released. “This bit about ‘I learned my lesson’ — no, it doesn’t work that way,” she said. “People are hurting inside. That’s why they’re using in the first place.”

The war on drugs began in 1971 out of a legitimate alarm about narcotics both in the United States and among U.S. troops in Vietnam. But the “war” approach locked up enormous numbers of people and devastated the family structure. Drug laws discriminated against African-Americans (possession of crack cocaine, disproportionately used by blacks, drew far harsher sentences than possession of the same quantity of powdered cocaine, more likely to be used by whites).

Yet locking up endless waves of users has had little deterrent effect, and overdose deaths have surged. The White House has estimated that the economic cost of the opioid crisis in the United States exceeds $500 billion a year, equivalent to about $4,000 per household. And that doesn’t even include cocaine, meth and other drug use.

While the U.S. doubled down on the criminal justice approach to drugs, Portugal took the opposite avenue, decriminalizing possession of all drugs in 2001. It was a gamble, but it succeeded. As I’ve reported, Portugal’s overdose deaths plunged. The upshot is that drug mortality rates in the United States are now about 50 times higher than in Portugal.

Increasingly there is global recognition that drugs are better addressed as a health challenge than as a law enforcement issue. “To criminalize people who use drugs is ineffective and harmful,” argues the Global Commission on Drug Policy, a panel of former presidents and other prominent figures from around the world who have explored these issues.

It would be difficult to think of a policy that has failed more definitively than America’s war on drugs, sending even small-time users to prison for years. This policy has cost the economy trillions, ruined tens of millions of lives, ruptured the family structure, exacerbated racial inequities — yet we still have a fatal overdose every seven minutes in the United States.

“Legislative and law enforcement solutions to drug problems in the U.S. have consistently caused more harm than they have solved,” noted Alex Kral, an epidemiologist with RTI International, a think tank. Countless studies have shown, he said, that public health approaches work better.

That’s the context in which Seattle took another crucial step last September: Satterberg announced then that he would no longer prosecute cases involving possession of less than one gram of drugs, even cocaine and heroin (one gram is more than a simple user would normally have at any one time). In practice, that means that dealers still get arrested, but not ordinary users.

“Seattle is leading on this,” said Daliah Heller of Vital Strategies, a New York group that examines how to reduce overdose deaths. “It’s extremely significant.”

But don’t expect miracles. Overcoming addiction is a slog, and no approach has eradicated drug abuse. Maybe that shouldn’t surprise us. We’ve been wrestling with alcoholism for thousands of years, and we still haven’t solved that, either. Even now, more Americans die each year from alcohol (88,000) than from drug overdoses (68,000).

It’s too early to have reliable data from the decriminalization experiment, but outside the courthouse in downtown Seattle where Satterberg has his offices, drug users continue to be homeless and feed their habits. At the same time, some police officers feel undermined and robbed of authority.

“You’ve got a guy shooting heroin on the street, and the cop is supposed to say, ‘You O.K.?’” grumbled one law enforcement officer in Seattle. (In fact, an officer would typically confiscate the heroin, admonish the user and move on.) Some residents worry that when the city ignores its own laws on the books and tolerates people openly abusing narcotics, it takes a step toward incivility that will eventually result in chaos and crime. There’s also a legitimate argument that the threat of prison is sometimes necessary to motivate users to participate in treatment programs.

Businesses are resentful of homeless drug users discarding needles on sidewalks and using bushes as toilets. A television documentary released this spring, “Seattle Is Dying,” captured the frustration of residents; some would prefer to see the police cart drug users off to jail to get them out of the way.

“It isn’t as easy as I thought to create a sensible drug policy,” Satterberg admitted to me. But he remains confident that his path, if not easy, will work better than simply throwing people in jail.

As I see it, the problem is that while Seattle has done an outstanding job halting the war on drugs, it hasn’t done well in financing the war on addiction. It closed the law enforcement toolbox without fully opening the public health toolbox.

Local officials found that in a world of competing budget silos, money saved from jails can’t easily be reallocated to treatment. This is so even though researchers repeatedly find that drug treatment pays for itself by saving huge amounts of taxpayer money, not to mention lives. One study found that substance abuse treatment in California paid for itself seven times over in reduced crime and other savings.

We need a greater focus on services — mental health, housing, counseling, medication-assisted treatment and more. It should be a scandal that less than 20 percent of Americans with substance abuse disorders get treatment.
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We should also try other evidence-based public health interventions to reduce the drug epidemic. Let’s have safe injection sites, so that an overdose won’t turn fatal, as well as testing for fentanyl, so that users can understand what’s in the drugs they buy. Let’s distribute naloxone widely, as Baltimore has done, to counteract opioid overdoses.

We might also experiment (as Canada has) with providing safe heroin to longtime users who can’t break their addictions, for use under medical supervision. It’s impossible to help people defeat addictions if they’re dead.

Local jurisdictions like Seattle are leading partly because the federal government isn’t. President Trump has boasted that his administration is making “tremendous progress” against opioids, but after more than two years, he still hasn’t even gotten around to appointing an administrator of the Drug Enforcement Administration.

As a country, we also must tackle root causes, which means ensuring that every kid graduates from high school and that job training and apprenticeships usher disadvantaged young people into decent jobs. The most important kind of drug policy is preventive: It’s about providing a future that isn’t so depressing that people numb themselves with opioids or meth.


Perhaps I sound too bleak. Nothing is easy, but Johnny Bousquet is a living example of how a patient public health approach can save lives and leave everyone better off.

Bousquet, 42, was born with drugs in his system into a dysfunctional household. His mom, who had been raped by her father and her brother, self-medicated with heroin, and Johnny himself began selling crack at 13 to buy money for food. At 19 he found his mom dead of a heroin overdose. Soon afterward, his stepbrother who was also his best friend was murdered while trying to rescue his sister from being pimped by a gang; then the sister died of an overdose.

In short, Bousquet experienced more trauma by young adulthood than an entire suburb of more privileged children. Yet he’s a talented musician and made a good living for a time producing records and corporate jingles, while marrying and having two children. Then life took a rough turn, his wife left him and took the children, he self-medicated, and he ended up homeless on the streets and stealing and selling drugs to get by.

In 2014 he sold $40 worth of crack to an undercover police officer and was referred to LEAD and a young counselor, Mikel Kowalcyk, who herself had a long history of abusing drugs. Kowalcyk had overcome her addiction and gone to college, and she and Bousquet quickly formed a symbiotic relationship.

Bousquet repeatedly relapsed, but Kowalcyk never gave up on him, and he gradually stayed sober for longer periods. Now he has been drug-free since Feb. 14, 2018, and he has a home and a job. If it hadn’t been for LEAD, he figures he would be dead of an overdose, would have killed himself or might have killed someone else.

Now, he says, he goes to a 7-Eleven that he used to shoplift from — and he buys from the cashier. “I’m nothing special,” he told me, “but it’s a big deal compared to being homeless last year and sleeping outside with needles in my arm.”

Day by day, Bousquet is making progress, a reminder that treating drug users as humans with an illness is a more effective strategy than the almost 50-year policy of imprisoning them as “junkies.”

“I just paid my rent again yesterday,” he said, beaming. “I’m not in your car stealing your stereo. I’m paying damn taxes now.”

https://nyti.ms/30sSnGj

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Sunday, August 25, 2019 5:03 PM

THG


Good post G...

T


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Sunday, August 25, 2019 10:10 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


I'm not surprised that the article didn't once mention the for profit corporate prison system we have in this country and how people like Kamala Harris have worked for decades to fill it with virtual slave labor.

Damn shame, that.


But I am in favor and full support of not throwing non-violent offenders in prison since prison ruins lives and families and is not at all in the business of rehabilitating anyone.

I hope it works out the way they hope it will.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, August 26, 2019 10:43 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


It's funny because I saw three videos in a row about the homeless drug=addicted in Seattel, and the people that they interviewed were fed up with the petty crime, trash, feces, needles etc that the drug-addicted (and mentally ill) leave behind. One of the videos, the lpngest one, cites several people who have had dozens - and in one case over a HUNDRED - "encounters" with the SPD for things like petty theft, threatening passersby etc, only to be returned to/left on the street to do the same thing all over again the next hour, day, or week,

It seems to me that while "jail" per se is not a reasonable response, some sort of involuntary treatment is required, and possible "harm reduction" housing. We're so worried about the freedoms of the mentally ill and drug addicted that we forget about the freedom of everyone else to walk the streets and not be harrassed,or to live in their homes and not be buglarized.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

You idiots have been oppressing the entire sexual spectrum as long as you have existed. I can't wait for the day your kind is dead - WISHIMAY

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Monday, August 26, 2019 10:51 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Sigs brings up a good point.

I can only talk from my own personal experience, but growing up in my late teens and early 20's with the wrong crowd, we did a lot of shit we shouldn't have done and that was with the threat of huge penalties if we got caught. Even when some of us did, and even after some of us were put in prison for drug offences, most of the rest of us did not learn from their mistakes.


I'm sure that for some people, this new system Seattle is testing out is going to be all they needed. A support group that actually cares, or one that is paid well enough and staffed with people who can really fake that they care even if they don't.

But giving everybody else a free pass? That probably isn't going to work out for a majority of cases unless there is some sort of "stick" involved.

Again, I'm happy to know that they're not throwing non-violent offenders into the prison machine anymore.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, August 26, 2019 11:09 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Three ecounters with the SPD, and if you haven't grabbed your chance at sobriety and/or treatment, off to the gulag you go! (Just kidding)

There are a lot of people who are drug addicted/alcoholics, mentally incompetent, mentally ill, etc and the difference between them and the people on the street is homelessness. A lot of people do stupid things in the privacy of their own homes and it doesn't raise a ruckus in the larger society because they have the space and the resrouces to do what they do, privately. Homeless people need to be involuntarily "homed".

I employ a formerly homeless man (he was homeless when I first started employing him) and he is neither a drug addict nor mentally ill, altho he has made a series of stupid decisions about jobs in his lifetime which cost him his place. But he DOES tell me about the other homeless people, and in addition to many of them being mentally ill and/or drug addicted, long term homelessness leads to a kind of feral behavior. We have feral people on our streets. They don't WANT to go into a home.

How do you domesticate feral dogs and cats? Well, you give them a home with a lot of encounters with people reinforced by food.

We can talk about the ultimate causes of homelessness (lack of good-paying jobs, real estate bubble which has lifted housing out of reach, unemployment and financial uncertainty which causes people to turn to drugs and drink out of hopelessness and anxiety, lack of treatment options for the mentally ill, too many returning vets with PTSD etc) but the immediate response shouls be involuntary housing and treatment.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

You idiots have been oppressing the entire sexual spectrum as long as you have existed. I can't wait for the day your kind is dead - WISHIMAY

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Monday, August 26, 2019 11:23 AM

WISHIMAY


Quote:
Originally posted by captaincrunch:


Seattle Has Figured Out How to End the War on Drugs


Is it ending war so much??... or giving up and shrugging your shoulders at behaviors and people that they realize will never be stopped??

I mean, it's nice that someone showed them the definition of futile, but I'd be interested to see the rates of usage in people that have been forced to stop vs. people that have been asked nicely to stop using.

Either way, redirecting efforts to slow the flows of drugs from coming in IS probably a better use of time and resources.

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Monday, August 26, 2019 11:31 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Legalizing or at least decriminalizing marijuana is a great start. It can be grown right here, nearly anywhere, and compared to cigarettes and alcohol it's far less damaging. None of those people on the streets are there because they're weed fiends.

But how do you stop the flow of hard core drugs? They've been trying to for 3 decades already. I don't think that de-emphasizing the pursuit of marijuana is going to somehow make them more successful at getting more of the hard stuff.

And some of the hardest stuff can be made from pills that are legally sold by pharmacists or even over the counter meds. Sure, there are limits to what can be bought these days, but that doesn't seem to stop the meth plague going on across America. You don't need a bathtub to make a batch if you're not in the market of selling it. The kids figured out how to get high off meth with nothing more than an empty 2 liter of soda.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, August 26, 2019 11:44 AM

WISHIMAY


Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Legalizing or at least decriminalizing marijuana is a great start.



I've changed my mind lol, maybe neutering chronic (non medical excuse people) that use weed would be a great place to start.

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Monday, August 26, 2019 12:04 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


When unemployment and family/personal financial/economic insecurity spike, drug use and alcohilism go thru the roof. You see this in every modern nation that experiences economic turmoil. If you want to reduce drug addiction, people have to have meaningful, secure, good-paying jobs that take up their free time and give them agency over their future.

Our other problem is that we generate a crapton of veterans who come out of the military either with PTSD, or they become economically and socially disoriented in the transition from a situation where their needs, society and goals are provided for them and then dumped into maelstrom of uncertainty and isolation.

In particular, people have been isolated from each other. We may have more virtual contacts than ever before, but way fewer friends and famliy that we can lean on/count on when things go rough, and we feel no obligation to be the one that other can lean on either.

Finally, I think our consumerist society has everyone thinking that life should be fulfilling all the time. There are an awful lot of people who feel entitled to happiness, and don't understand that life DOES present its share of fear, doubt, pain, sadness, discouragement. We should be able to reach out to others for help, advice, or just a non-judgmental ear, but instead we're sniping at each other over the stupidest things.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

You idiots have been oppressing the entire sexual spectrum as long as you have existed. I can't wait for the day your kind is dead - WISHIMAY

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Monday, August 26, 2019 12:40 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:
Originally posted by WISHIMAY:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Legalizing or at least decriminalizing marijuana is a great start.



I've changed my mind lol, maybe neutering chronic (non medical excuse people) that use weed would be a great place to start.


Stay fascist, wonderful.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, August 26, 2019 12:42 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:
Originally posted by WISHIMAY:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Legalizing or at least decriminalizing marijuana is a great start.



I've changed my mind lol, maybe neutering chronic (non medical excuse people) that use weed would be a great place to start.


Stay fascist, wonderful.

Do Right, Be Right. :)
Yeah, did you ever notice that WISHY's posts almost always talk about killing, or nuking, or frying, or eradicating, or castrating? Just a bundle of love, that one is.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

You idiots have been oppressing the entire sexual spectrum as long as you have existed. I can't wait for the day your kind is dead - WISHIMAY

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Monday, August 26, 2019 12:45 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:
Originally posted by WISHIMAY:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Legalizing or at least decriminalizing marijuana is a great start.



I've changed my mind lol, maybe neutering chronic (non medical excuse people) that use weed would be a great place to start.


Stay fascist, wonderful.

Do Right, Be Right. :)
Yeah, did you ever notice that WISHY's posts almost always talk about killing, or nuking, or frying, or eradicating, or castrating? Just a bundle of love, that one is.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

You idiots have been oppressing the entire sexual spectrum as long as you have existed. I can't wait for the day your kind is dead - WISHIMAY


But it's okay Sigs.

Because they're all bad people, or people who don't think the right way...

Yanno, people who don't agree 100% with her on everything.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, August 26, 2019 12:51 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


I also find it interesting that of the five people who have posted in this thread so far, Wishy is the one who is so far authoritarian in her ideas of how the issue of drug abuse should be handled she'd make Kamala Harris blush.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think she's further "right" on the issue than even JSF would be.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, August 26, 2019 10:36 PM

WISHIMAY


Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:


Because they're all bad people, or people who don't think the right way...



Yanno, you're right. When someone eventually murders you because you are helping turn your neighborhood into a ghetto, we should absolutely pat that person on the back and say "It's ok, he wasn't worth much anyway. Try harder next time."

Or, let's take this one step closer to home for you...Someone kidnaps and tortures your innocent beloved niece to death and claims mental illness we should just let them keep doing it, right? After all, they don't think the right way...Or we should give them a comfy cot and three hots a day so they can sit in their cell fapping themselves over the memory... while existing on your taxpaying dime? That's JUSTICE??? I don't think so and neither DO YOU.

This planet is a cruel place and it always has been and always will be. Coddling people who choose to defile themselves, others, and this planet demeans US ALL. Well, those of us who pay attention, anyway.

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Monday, August 26, 2019 11:33 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


I never said I had all the answers.

I am a firm believer that you should be able to do anything you want to do in a free country as long as you're not harming others or unnecessarily inconveniencing them. Though the non-violent offenders aren't doing the former, they're certainly doing the latter in Seattle.

What I do know is that the US Prison system is slave labor, and corporations make big profits off of it. It's not designed to rehabilitate anybody, and quite the contrary, it turns non-violent people who were just misguided into hardened criminals when they do get out. Most of them end up back inside.

There's an answer somewhere. Seattle may not have "figured out how to end the war on drugs" like the thread title here so boldly proclaims.

But putting people in prison alongside murderers and pedophiles for what essentially boils down to a mental illness isn't the answer either. At least Seattle is trying something different.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, August 27, 2019 2:39 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Satterberg is the spear tip, but I think Jay Inslee (governor of WA and former presidential candidate) deserves some credit. The state overall has come up with some revolutionary plans. And I don't think this could go forward without some state-level agreement.

Portugal got great results but I think anything like that is very context sensitive; and they're trying to institute something similar in a different country in a different culture. If it translates well it could be a sturdy model going forward for the rest of the US.

There are feral people and there are people with organic neuropsychiatric issues (even if they're acquired through drug use). It may be easier to deal with feral people since they have a reliably responding brain. As for people with neuropsychiatric issues, I always thought the whole idea of kicking them out on the street was dumb --- and cruel. How hard could it be to imagine that people barely functioning in a stable, safe environment might possibly not do so well on the streets? Thanks Reagan. Maybe we'll find out that being a humane society is cheaper in the long run, and start to reverse the damage done so many decades ago.

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Tuesday, August 27, 2019 4:18 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I never said I had all the answers.

I am a firm believer that you should be able to do anything you want to do in a free country as long as you're not harming others or unnecessarily inconveniencing them. Though the non-violent offenders aren't doing the former, they're certainly doing the latter in Seattle.

What I do know is that the US Prison system is slave labor, and corporations make big profits off of it. It's not designed to rehabilitate anybody, and quite the contrary, it turns non-violent people who were just misguided into hardened criminals when they do get out. Most of them end up back inside.
Many folk had heard rumor that the Prison System was designed for the purpose of Punishing miscreants who decided to violate the Laws with the known Punishment of incarceration.
Funny how that sounds like it makes sense. It punishes as it was intended to punish.




So, the giant secret of ending the War on Drugs is to.....STOP ENFORCING THE LAW!!!!
Funny, this sounds much like the Libtard solution of lawlessness - err, actually, it is the same!

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Tuesday, August 27, 2019 4:41 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


oops - computer didn't give me the back arrow

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Tuesday, August 27, 2019 4:43 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


There was a huge prison built in Pennsylvania, built on the idea that people should be either doing productive work or in Quaker solitude and quiet to consider their misdeeds and become 'penitent' - ie, a penitentiary. It wasn't intended as punishment per se.

The Eastern State Penitentiary

Quote:
http://www.ushistory.org/tour/eastern-state-penitentiary.htm

A group met at the home of Benjamin Franklin and created the world's first "penitentiary."
...
Of all of the radical innovations born in this era, American democracy was, of course, the most influential. The second major intellectual export was prison design and reform.
...
Eastern State Penitentiary broke sharply with the prisons of its day, abandoning corporal punishment and ill treatment. This massive new structure, opened in 1829, became one of the most expensive American buildings of its day and soon the most famous prison in the world. The Penitentiary would not simply punish, but move the criminal toward spiritual reflection and change. The method was a Quaker-inspired system of isolation from other prisoners, with labor. The early system was strict. To prevent distraction, knowledge of the building, and even mild interaction with guards, inmates were hooded whenever they were outside their cells. But the proponents of the system believed strongly that the criminals, exposed, in silence, to thoughts of their behavior and the ugliness of their crimes, would become genuinely penitent. Thus the new word, penitentiary.


To this day we haven't figured out what our prisons are for. Are they punishment? A means to isolate dangerous people from the rest of society? A place to help people with their problems? A place for penitence and reform?


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Tuesday, August 27, 2019 5:32 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I never said I had all the answers.

I am a firm believer that you should be able to do anything you want to do in a free country as long as you're not harming others or unnecessarily inconveniencing them. Though the non-violent offenders aren't doing the former, they're certainly doing the latter in Seattle.

What I do know is that the US Prison system is slave labor, and corporations make big profits off of it. It's not designed to rehabilitate anybody, and quite the contrary, it turns non-violent people who were just misguided into hardened criminals when they do get out. Most of them end up back inside.
Many folk had heard rumor that the Prison System was designed for the purpose of Punishing miscreants who decided to violate the Laws with the known Punishment of incarceration.
Funny how that sounds like it makes sense. It punishes as it was intended to punish.




So, the giant secret of ending the War on Drugs is to.....STOP ENFORCING THE LAW!!!!
Funny, this sounds much like the Libtard solution of lawlessness - err, actually, it is the same!



Too bad for you a lot of the things you think should be punishable by prison time are being legalized, huh?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, August 27, 2019 8:38 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Yeah, we need to do better. More of this and less jail stuff. Not working.

Also, don't do drugs.

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Tuesday, August 27, 2019 10:35 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Back in the 1990s, Portugal faced a heroin crisis. Most people knew someone affected by the lethal drug. Just two decades later, the country has one of the lowest drug-related death rates in the world. This dramatic turnaround isn't credited to a hard-line approach, but instead by decriminalizing all drugs.



The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, August 27, 2019 10:46 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Yeah, we need to do better. More of this and less jail stuff. Not working.

Also, don't do drugs.



Kind of funny finding an issue where the only people on one side are Wishy and JSF.

I didn't think that was possible.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Wednesday, August 28, 2019 12:09 AM

WISHIMAY


Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:



Kind of funny finding an issue where the only people on one side are Wishy and JSF.

I didn't think that was possible.



Really? He thinks Overdose Island is a good idea too?

I think we SHOULD stop wasting resources on jails and rehabs..... and instead give every hard core drug addict an option to go to an island stocked to the brim with every drug you can think of. Free food, free booze... All they have to do is fill out a will and a waiver of liability (and be on birth control) and we let them party hardy. Idiots remove themselves from the equation, naturally.

They get what they want, and we get a more orderly and less diseased population.

WIN WIN!

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Wednesday, August 28, 2019 12:14 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:
Originally posted by WISHIMAY:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:



Kind of funny finding an issue where the only people on one side are Wishy and JSF.

I didn't think that was possible.



Really? He thinks Overdose Island is a good idea too?

I think we SHOULD stop wasting resources on jails and rehabs..... and instead give every hard core drug addict an option to go to an island stocked to the brim with every drug you can think of. Free food, free booze... All they have to do is fill out a will and a waiver of liability (and be on birth control) and we let them party hardy. Idiots remove themselves from the equation, naturally.

They get what they want, and we get a more orderly and less diseased population.

WIN, WIN!


I knew a guy who's uncle used to say that they should put all the gays on gay island and let them all get aids and fuck each other to death.

That's exactly who you sound like right now.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Wednesday, August 28, 2019 12:19 AM

WISHIMAY



Quote:
Originally posted by WISHIMAY:

I've changed my mind lol, maybe neutering chronic (non medical excuse people) that use weed would be a great place to start.

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Stay fascist, wonderful.




You people are probably the most gullible people I've ever seen. You haven't the slightest clue when you are being trolled and when you aren't. It's a MILE OF FUN

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Wednesday, August 28, 2019 12:22 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:
Originally posted by WISHIMAY:

Quote:
Originally posted by WISHIMAY:

I've changed my mind lol, maybe neutering chronic (non medical excuse people) that use weed would be a great place to start.

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Stay fascist, wonderful.




You people are probably the most gullible people I've ever seen. You haven't the slightest clue when you are being trolled and when you aren't. It's a MILE OF FUN



We never know who we're talking to on any given night, Sybil.

We didn't know that we were talking to Wishy the Unfunny Comedian when you posted that, and we weren't talking to Wishy the man-hating lunatic.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Wednesday, August 28, 2019 12:23 AM

WISHIMAY


Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:


I knew a guy who's uncle used to say that they should put all the gays on gay island and let them all get aids and fuck each other to death.

That's exactly who you sound like right now.


False Equivalency. The end goal of being gay is NOT to die, it's to be fabulous and get laid....a LOT.

The end goal of drug addiction is to be high as much as possible. Every drug addict knows death is a possibility EVERY time they get high.

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Wednesday, August 28, 2019 12:25 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:
Originally posted by WISHIMAY:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:


I knew a guy who's uncle used to say that they should put all the gays on gay island and let them all get aids and fuck each other to death.

That's exactly who you sound like right now.


False Equivalency. The end goal of being gay is NOT to die, it's to be fabulous and get laid....a LOT.

The end goal of drug addiction to be high as much as possible. Every drug addict knows death is a possibility EVERY time they get high.


I know a few gay guys who would argue you about the being fabulous part as well as the insinuation that they are into promiscuous sex or have a desire to have sex more than a normal heterosexual would.

But what else should I expect from a virtue signalling backwoods Indiana person who's never actually met a gay person and learned everything they know about gay people from watching The Birdcage.




And... you're concurrently running a new thread where you're throwing weed users in with all other hard drug users. Nobody who smokes weed ever goes into it knowing that death is a possibility because nobody has ever died from smoking weed in the history of smoking weed.


Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Wednesday, August 28, 2019 12:46 AM

WISHIMAY


Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:


I know a few gay guys who would argue you about the being fabulous part as well as the insinuation that they are into promiscuous sex or have a desire to have sex more than a normal heterosexual would.

But what else should I expect from a virtue signalling backwoods Indiana person who's never actually met a gay person and learned everything they know about gay people from watching The Birdcage.

And... you're concurrently running a new thread where you're throwing weed users in with all other hard drug users. Nobody who smokes weed ever goes into it knowing that death is a possibility because nobody has ever died from smoking weed in the history of smoking weed.





You know what > THIS thing is, right?
What about THIS one??


1. THE END GOAL OF BEING GAY IS NOT DEATH. PERIOD.
2. I have several absolutely flaming gay friends, as does the kiddo. Gays are everywhere, even in the backwoods of Indiana.
3. Two people actually HAVE died of allergic responses to weed.
4. MANY MANY people have died as a result of others driving high.
https://www.today.com/health/driving-while-high-marijuana-causing-spik
e-fatal-accidents-t91746
5. I did not mean chronic pot users, but if they've ever driven high and killed people, sure they should get offered the option.
6. You sound really defensive of your (possibly previous) unneeded and ill-advised drug use. Haven't learned to accept you are defective yet, hmmm?????



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Wednesday, August 28, 2019 12:49 AM

WISHIMAY


Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:


We never know who we're talking to on any given night, Sybil.



I know. I have the audacity to try and make you think. I know you aren't used to that

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Wednesday, August 28, 2019 4:21 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


You're sucha' tool.

What I can't figure out is why you think being a troll indicates you're smart.

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Wednesday, August 28, 2019 8:46 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


I don't use drugs, idiot.

I haven't smoked weed in over 3 years.

They're legalizing it January 1st in Illinois. Any adult will be able to walk into a store and buy it like they would booze.

There is no testing for weed that is legitimate, so they won't be able to test for driving while high since you could have smoked 3 weeks ago and you will still come up dirty.

Allergic reactions to weed don't count. Peanuts are great. People die from peanuts.

All of those studies about people driving high and killing somebody are flawed. Those people were also drunk or on another substance at the same time.

You're an idiot.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Wednesday, August 28, 2019 8:55 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


When you have a complicated problem to solve that has many solutions, like the War on Drugs, you need to know what those solutions are, rather than fall back to your personal opinion. But most people aren't ever going to solve world size problems so much as they just want to either look good or do the least amount of work that will get them through their day. Neither way most people follow will ever get the world closer to a solution, but we are not here at fireflyfans.net to solve the World's Problems, are we?

Too bad there isn't a metacritic for solutions to big problems. Metacritic can tell you what the weaknesses of a particular movie, but not weaknesses of different solutions to the War on Drugs. Ask metacritic about the movie Serenity. You'll get two contradictory opinions, until you realize that there is a Serenity with Nathan Fillion and a Serenity with Matthew McConaughey. One of them did poorly at the boxoffice, but the other did worse. That's just the way it is for solutions to big problems. Opinions vary and the actual results in the real world range from bad to worse. Avoid the worst Serenity and the worst way to fight the war on drugs. But most likely, the worst way will be what continues happening in most cities of the USA because that's most familiar to Americans.

www.metacritic.com/movie/serenity
www.metacritic.com/movie/serenity-2018
www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=serenity.htm
www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=serenity2018.htm

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Wednesday, August 28, 2019 1:53 PM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
It's funny because I saw three videos in a row about the homeless drug=addicted in Seattel, and the people that they interviewed were fed up with the petty crime, trash, feces, needles etc that the drug-addicted (and mentally ill) leave behind. One of the videos, the lpngest one, cites several people who have had dozens - and in one case over a HUNDRED - "encounters" with the SPD for things like petty theft, threatening passersby etc, only to be returned to/left on the street to do the same thing all over again the next hour, day, or week,

It seems to me that while "jail" per se is not a reasonable response, some sort of involuntary treatment is required, and possible "harm reduction" housing. We're so worried about the freedoms of the mentally ill and drug addicted that we forget about the freedom of everyone else to walk the streets and not be harrassed,or to live in their homes and not be buglarized.


I missed how locking people up for petty drug use equals, "we're so worried about the freedoms of the mentally ill and drug addicted."

You'll have to explain that.

Elsewhere > great to see 2 big pharmas Perdue and J&J paying the price for their part in Opioid addiction. That's another major part of the a better solution. Hit 'em in the wallet and they'll think twice.

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Wednesday, August 28, 2019 3:22 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O%27Connor_v._Donaldson

O'Connor v. Donaldson, 422 U.S. 563 (1975), was a landmark decision in mental health law. The United States Supreme Court ruled that a state cannot constitutionally confine a non-dangerous individual who is capable of surviving safely in freedom by themselves or with the help of willing and responsible family members or friends. Since the trial court jury found, upon ample evidence, that petitioner did so confine respondent, the Supreme Court upheld the trial court's conclusion that petitioner had violated respondent's right to liberty. Decided June 26, 1975
California passed the Lanterman-Petris-Short Act which de-homed the mentally ill in California. De-homing later became national with the Supreme Court ruling. This was a landmark ruling that led to formerly housed psychiatric patients being released onto the streets. And it removed a tool that helped families keep their mentally ill relatives at home. Because no one can keep a mentally ill person in a safe place against their will.

That led to a vast proportion of mentally ill being homeless on the streets. The first point of contact between the mentally ill and officialdom is usually the police. And that makes the jails and prisons the most frequent place the mentally ill are 'housed'.

About half of the homeless have a mental illness, a quarter of the homeless have a serious mental illness. https://mentalillnesspolicy.org/consequences/homeless-mentally-ill.htm
l

And the mentally ill are overrepresented in jails and prisons; this is often traced to deinstitutionalization.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mentally_ill_people_in_United_States_jai
ls_and_prisons

Quote:
A 2017 report issued by the Bureau of Justice Statistics used self-report survey data from inmates to assess the prevalence of mental health problems among prisoners and jail inmates. They found that 14% of prisoners and 25% of jail inmates had past 30-day serious psychological distress, compared to 5% of the general population. In addition, 37% of prisoners and 44% of jail inmates had a history of a mental health problem. ... Researchers commonly cite deinstitutionalization, or the emptying of state mental hospitals in the mid-twentieth century, as a direct cause of the rise of mentally ill people in prisons.
Even the drug addicted can't be involuntarily detoxed.

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Wednesday, August 28, 2019 3:26 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:
Originally posted by captaincrunch:
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
It's funny because I saw three videos in a row about the homeless drug=addicted in Seattel, and the people that they interviewed were fed up with the petty crime, trash, feces, needles etc that the drug-addicted (and mentally ill) leave behind. One of the videos, the lpngest one, cites several people who have had dozens - and in one case over a HUNDRED - "encounters" with the SPD for things like petty theft, threatening passersby etc, only to be returned to/left on the street to do the same thing all over again the next hour, day, or week,

It seems to me that while "jail" per se is not a reasonable response, some sort of involuntary treatment is required, and possible "harm reduction" housing. We're so worried about the freedoms of the mentally ill and drug addicted that we forget about the freedom of everyone else to walk the streets and not be harrassed,or to live in their homes and not be buglarized.


I missed how locking people up for petty drug use equals, "we're so worried about the freedoms of the mentally ill and drug addicted."

You'll have to explain that.

Elsewhere > great to see 2 big pharmas Perdue and J&J paying the price for their part in Opioid addiction. That's another major part of the a better solution. Hit 'em in the wallet and they'll think twice.



I might be wrong here or misreading things, but I think we've finally found some common ground that we're just about 100% in agreement with each other here Captain.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Wednesday, August 28, 2019 3:44 PM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:
Originally posted by captaincrunch:
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
It's funny because I saw three videos in a row about the homeless drug=addicted in Seattel, and the people that they interviewed were fed up with the petty crime, trash, feces, needles etc that the drug-addicted (and mentally ill) leave behind. One of the videos, the lpngest one, cites several people who have had dozens - and in one case over a HUNDRED - "encounters" with the SPD for things like petty theft, threatening passersby etc, only to be returned to/left on the street to do the same thing all over again the next hour, day, or week,

It seems to me that while "jail" per se is not a reasonable response, some sort of involuntary treatment is required, and possible "harm reduction" housing. We're so worried about the freedoms of the mentally ill and drug addicted that we forget about the freedom of everyone else to walk the streets and not be harrassed,or to live in their homes and not be buglarized.


I missed how locking people up for petty drug use equals, "we're so worried about the freedoms of the mentally ill and drug addicted."

You'll have to explain that.

Elsewhere > great to see 2 big pharmas Perdue and J&J paying the price for their part in Opioid addiction. That's another major part of the a better solution. Hit 'em in the wallet and they'll think twice.



I might be wrong here or misreading things, but I think we've finally found some common ground that we're just about 100% in agreement with each other here Captain.

Do Right, Be Right. :)


Maybe so. Prison/jail time is not a solution. It doesn't cure addiction. Even great counseling doesn't always work, but it's more successful than locking people up. That's just kicking the can down the road and trying to hide the problem.

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Wednesday, August 28, 2019 5:57 PM

WISHIMAY


Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:


There is no testing for weed that is legitimate, so they won't be able to test for driving while high since you could have smoked 3 weeks ago and you will still come up dirty.

Allergic reactions to weed don't count. Peanuts are great. People die from peanuts.

All of those studies about people driving high and killing somebody are flawed. Those people were also drunk or on another substance at the same time.

You're an idiot.




I see every study that doesn't say weed is the best thing ever you are still disagreeing with out of hand, just like Chump does with "fake news", and because science is haaaarrrrd, man

I'm sure the families of the two people who died would say they counted, but then again, YOU ARE A NARCISSIST so no one else counts in your world.

And, I'm guessing you don't know this, but people who drive high quite frequently admit to driving high BECAUSE THEY ARE HIGH. Yes, your own words may be used against you....SURPRISE!


I'm STILL less of an idiot THAN YOU. I've never been high and I've never even been drunk. Never needed to be... That makes me five wasted years smarter than you or kiki

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Wednesday, August 28, 2019 6:04 PM

WISHIMAY


Quote:
Originally posted by captaincrunch:

Maybe so. Prison/jail time is not a solution. It doesn't cure addiction..


It's not supposed to. It's supposed to keep them from shitting ALL OVER THE STREETS and leaving used needles everywhere and limit the spread of diseases which are at epidemic levels on the west coast right now. Not to mention the crime that comes with an untamed population of drug addicts. I'm sorry they have a disease, but allowing them to inflict the rest of the population with their filth isn't fair and isn't the answer, either.

NOT taking them to jail causes its own problems.


They estimate there are 150,000 vagrants on S.C. streets.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7396585/Californias-homeless-
crisis-engulfs-capital-Sacramentos-people-confront-naked-junkies.html

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Wednesday, August 28, 2019 7:10 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:
Originally posted by WISHIMAY:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:


There is no testing for weed that is legitimate, so they won't be able to test for driving while high since you could have smoked 3 weeks ago and you will still come up dirty.

Allergic reactions to weed don't count. Peanuts are great. People die from peanuts.

All of those studies about people driving high and killing somebody are flawed. Those people were also drunk or on another substance at the same time.

You're an idiot.




I see every study that doesn't say weed is the best thing ever you are still disagreeing with out of hand, just like Chump does with "fake news", and because science is haaaarrrrd, man

I'm sure the families of the two people who died would say they counted, but then again, YOU ARE A NARCISSIST so no one else counts in your world.

And, I'm guessing you don't know this, but people who drive high quite frequently admit to driving high BECAUSE THEY ARE HIGH. Yes, your own words may be used against you....SURPRISE!


I'm STILL less of an idiot THAN YOU. I've never been high and I've never even been drunk. Never needed to be... That makes me five wasted years smarter than you or kiki


Why is it always about "who is better" with you?

You like to call everybody else a narcissist all the time, but you really seem to think that you're the best thing ever and you really seem to enjoy getting into pissing contests everyday.

Just sayin'

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Thursday, August 29, 2019 1:33 AM

WISHIMAY


Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Why is it always about "who is better" with you?

You like to call everybody else a narcissist all the time, but you really seem to think that you're the best thing ever and you really seem to enjoy getting into pissing contests everyday.

Just sayin'


You called ME an idiot twice in one post.

I'm pointing out HOW I'm not the idiot here and once again TRUTH HURTS YOU.

I don't call everyone a narcissist, just narcissists. And you are one. I've never been more sure about anything in my entire life.

If you don't want to get into a pissing contest, YOU SHOULD ZIP UP YOUR PANTS AND WALK AWAY

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Thursday, August 29, 2019 4:33 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


We were all having a rational conversation in here for once.

Then you showed up, Nilbog.

Just go away.

Nobody here wants you around anymore.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Thursday, August 29, 2019 10:25 AM

WISHIMAY


Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:


Nobody here wants you around anymore.



Can't get through a single post without trying to speak "for everyone".

Narcissist Playbook!

NO conversation with you is rational

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Thursday, August 29, 2019 11:50 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:
Originally posted by WISHIMAY:
Can't get through a single post without trying to speak "for everyone".
If you're speaking for 'families' you absolutely don't know, couldn't mention a single name from, and wouldn't recognize on the street if they came up to you and said hello ... does that count as being from the 'Narcissist Playbook!' too?
Quote:
Originally posted by WISHIMAY:
I'm sure the families of the two people who died would say they counted, but then again, YOU ARE A NARCISSIST so no one else counts in your world.

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Thursday, August 29, 2019 11:51 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:
Seattle courthouse drowning in waste, but cleaning it up would be… racist?

When two Seattle, Washington judges asked the local authorities to clean up garbage and human waste from the homeless camp outside their courthouse, one council member worried that power-washing the sidewalks might be racist.

The King County courthouse in downtown Seattle is located near the social service centers and several homeless shelters. A tent city has sprung up in the little park outside. There have been several assaults on courthouse employees, and even two attacks on jurors In May and June, leading to citizens summoned for jury duty to voice concerns about their safety.

Judges Laura Inveen and Jim Rogers, backed by King County Sheriff John Urquhart, asked the county to do something about it, the Seattle Times reported last month. Among their requests was a daily power-wash of the sidewalks, which “reek of urine and excrement.”

Council member Larry Gossett, however, objected because power-washing “brought back images of the use of hoses against civil-rights activists,” according to the Times.

Seattle is trying to figure out how to clean poop off their streets but A Democrat Councilman doesn’t like the idea of using a pressure washer hose because it reminds him of hoses used against civil rights activists...

You can’t make this stuff up. Insane. https://t.co/fxqdvmRYa2
— Robby Starbuck (@robbystarbuck) August 27, 2019

High-pressure water hoses were used by police in Birmingham, Alabama against civil rights protesters back in 1963. They have also been used to wash sidewalks in most American cities on a daily basis ever since, without being accused of racism.

But this is 2019, when everything is racist – the New York Times says so – and anyone who doesn’t call it out is assumed to be an enabler, according to the rules of the “woke” cancel culture. So, the sidewalks of Seattle must remain covered in human waste, lest someone get offended.
Also on rt.com Complaints soar as San Francisco drowns in human waste

While it was conservative pundits who brought up this month-old item from the local crime blotter to national attention, calling it a perfect illustration of “peak liberalism,” the notion that garbage and excrement somehow represent social justice ought to be offensive to pretty much everyone.

“Gossett’s concern here is nothing short of insane,” wrote Kat Timpf in National Review. “What else are you going to do — not wash them? Because I really, really reject the idea that leaving sidewalks covered with human bodily waste is the less offensive move in this (or any) situation.”

Timpf was not alone in that sentiment, as legions of social media users had a field day with the councilman’s claim. Would using water hoses to put out fires be racist? Or tying a boat to a dock, since that involves making a noose? Make sure you don’t use brooms, either, because that would be offensive to witches!

“This is the stupidest thing I have ever heard,” one commenter wrote on Twitter. “And they will all wonder how Trump was re-elected,” added another.

https://www.rt.com/usa/467415-seattle-courthouse-excrement-racist/

I think the original article implies that Seattle has scaled back its war on HOMELESS drug addicts.

Quote:
A 2017 peer-reviewed study found that drug users assigned to LEAD were 58 percent less likely to be rearrested, compared with a control group. Participants were also almost twice as likely to have housing as they had been before entering LEAD, and 46 percent more likely to be employed or getting job training...

... outside the courthouse in downtown Seattle where Satterberg has his offices, drug users continue to be homeless and feed their habits.

You’ve got a guy shooting heroin on the street...
There was never a "war on drugs" in the homes of suburbanites or rich urbanites, who snort, swallow, inject, or smoke whatever they want in the privacy afforded by their four walls. The "war on drugs" has always been about urban poor, and especially about homeless urban poor, who are a very visible problem.

Back to this later,

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

You idiots have been oppressing the entire sexual spectrum as long as you have existed. I can't wait for the day your kind is dead - WISHIMAY

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Thursday, August 29, 2019 11:53 AM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


Quote:
Originally posted by WISHIMAY:
Quote:
Originally posted by captaincrunch:

Maybe so. Prison/jail time is not a solution. It doesn't cure addiction..


It's not supposed to. It's supposed to keep them from shitting ALL OVER THE STREETS and leaving used needles everywhere and limit the spread of diseases which are at epidemic levels on the west coast right now.


"epidemic levels on the west coast right now"

Isn't that proof that incarceration doesn't work?

Fight the source instead and don't just throw people in a hole. They won't stay in there forever/will come out eventually - then what?

Quote:
Originally posted by WISHIMAY:
Not to mention the crime that comes with an untamed population of drug addicts. I'm sorry they have a disease, but allowing them to inflict the rest of the population with their filth isn't fair and isn't the answer, either.


Definitely no perfect answer. If it were me, I would throw Dealers in a hole and close it over. Profiting from someone else's life threatening addiction should be their life in prison. Same goes for the makers.

Quote:
Originally posted by WISHIMAY:
NOT taking them to jail causes its own problems.


It sure does - drug addiction is a BEAST. No easy answer.

I know someone who has been addicted to opioids for many years. A tale of great woe and frustration. Once they were hooked you could just see them circling the drain. Everything that was tried only bought them a little more time until that craving took over again. No kind of rehab has worked. No jail time has worked. Getting them jobs and support and they still lie and steal from family to get that high. A lot of people gave up including parents and family. The drug never gives up.

There are other drugs to fight the cravings and maybe that's another part of a big solution. Prisons just make it worse imho.

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Thursday, August 29, 2019 12:20 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


I think methadone figures into Portugal's success.

ETA: methadone (75%), bupropion and naltrexone (balance)

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Thursday, August 29, 2019 3:17 PM

WISHIMAY


Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:

Can't get through a single post without trying to speak "for everyone".


I think it's logical that if someone dies from an allergic reaction to smoking a little weed, they probably have a family member that's pretty bummed about that.

What planet do you come from that that ISN'T logical??

Oh, wait, you were just trying to stretch a conclusion again... Go find something to do, stupid.

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