REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Ocasio-Cortez' wish-list

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Friday, October 14, 2022 02:42
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VIEWED: 17046
PAGE 4 of 7

Monday, February 4, 2019 8:57 PM

REAVERFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by THG:
re·pub·lic

a state in which supreme power is held by the people and their elected representatives, and which has an elected or nominated president rather than a monarch.

That's us

T



Elected officials need to ask themselves a very simple question: Who do I represent?

The people who give me campaign money, or the people who elected me?

I know where AOC stands. In her case, she represents both at once. She eschewed corporate money, and funded herself with the grassroots. She'll have that job as long as she wants it.

Where does your Republican rep. stand? I know where mine stand. They love their dark money and they hate to speak to their constituents, and will only do so in the most controlled settings.




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Tuesday, February 5, 2019 3:12 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Yes, because less jobs is always the best way to solve problems.

Why not 90%? Or 100%?
How much is too high?


We're living in Post-Capitalism America.

Our government has not done its job and has allowed monopolistic companies to thrive to the point that we're all going to be working for the same 2 or 3 companies once they've pushed all the little guys out.

Your DOW Jones you ramble on about all the time is the main impetus for this.

Capitalism is great. It doesn't exist in America anymore though.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Was any of that supposed to be answer to any of the questions I posed?

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Tuesday, February 5, 2019 4:35 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Quote:

Where does your Republican rep. stand? I know where mine stand. They love their dark money and they hate to speak to their constituents, and will only do so in the most controlled settings.


Those Reps are the Mitch McConnells of the world. That slimy representative that shills for the corporate entities and thwarts any kind of progress for the people. They barely do enough to keep their seats. The rule of law does not apply to them.


SGG



Quote:

Originally posted by reaverfan:
Quote:

Originally posted by THG:
re·pub·lic

a state in which supreme power is held by the people and their elected representatives, and which has an elected or nominated president rather than a monarch.

That's us

T



Elected officials need to ask themselves a very simple question: Who do I represent?







The people who give me campaign money, or the people who elected me?

I know where AOC stands. In her case, she represents both at once. She eschewed corporate money, and funded herself with the grassroots. She'll have that job as long as she wants it.

Where does your Republican rep. stand? I know where mine stand. They love their dark money and they hate to speak to their constituents, and will only do so in the most controlled settings.





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Wednesday, February 6, 2019 7:29 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
This country FYI, is a Democratic Socialist society.

A Democracy:
Quote:

control of an organization or group by the majority of its members.

Democratic socialism:
Quote:

is a political philosophy that advocates political democracy alongside social ownership of the means of production with an emphasis on self-management and democratic management of economic institutions within a market or some form of decentralized planned socialist economy.

Countries that have democratic socialism:
Armenia, Bolivia, Brazil, Croatia, Denmark, Ecuador, Finland, France, Germany, Greenland, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, Moldova, Netherlands, Nicaragua, Northern Ireland, Norway, Peru, Portugal, Serbia, Slovenia, Sweden,
Tunisia, Turkey, United Kingdom, Venezuela.

Just to name a few.

SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Ah... I see we have a few fans of Socialism on this thread.

We already knew that, and they already denied it, but here we are...

Do Right, Be Right. :)


Thanks for such an excellent display of your ignorance, fool.

A Socialist Government is one which controls all aspects of Production. Like Nazi Germany, for example. This form of Government has failed every time it has been tried. Many consider Venezuela to be the most recent example of this.
No Free Enterprise, no Free Market, and usually no other Freedoms or Liberties.
Maybe your own little world is Socialist, like the company you run, but America is not that way. Yet.

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Wednesday, February 6, 2019 11:50 PM

REAVERFAN


This troll is entirely laughable. ^ Doesn't even try to hide it.


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Thursday, February 7, 2019 9:36 AM

REAVERFAN


Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Releases Green New Deal Outline
https://www.npr.org/2019/02/07/691997301/rep-alexandria-ocasio-cortez-
releases-green-new-deal-outline?utm_campaign=storyshare&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social


Whether it's a deadly cold snap or a hole in an Antarctic glacier or a terrifying new report, there seem to be constant reminders now of the dangers that climate change poses to humanity.

POLITICS
Ocasio-Cortez To Unveil Ambitious Plan To Combat Climate Change
Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, D-N.Y., and Sen. Ed Markey, D-Mass., think they have a start to a solution. Thursday they are introducing a framework defining what they call a "Green New Deal" — what they foresee as a massive policy package that would remake the U.S. economy and, they hope, eliminate all U.S. carbon emissions.

That's a really big — potentially impossibly big — undertaking.

"Even the solutions that we have considered big and bold are nowhere near the scale of the actual problem that climate change presents to us," Ocasio-Cortez told NPR's Steve Inskeep in an interview airing Thursday on Morning Edition.

She added: "It could be part of a larger solution, but no one has actually scoped out what that larger solution would entail. And so that's really what we're trying to accomplish with the Green New Deal."

Heaven must be missing an angel.

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Thursday, February 7, 2019 9:54 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


THE ICE AGE IS COMING!!!!

Brought to you by Russia.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Thursday, February 7, 2019 9:59 AM

REAVERFAN


The ice is melting. The world is heating up. Way too fast for most species to evolve and adapt.

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Thursday, February 7, 2019 10:01 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


WATERWORLD IS COMING!!!!

Brought to you by Russia.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Thursday, February 7, 2019 10:04 AM

REAVERFAN


Human self-entitlement does not seem to recognize that we are only here as guests of stable macro-forces. We destabilize them, we revoke our right to be here, and there isn't anywhere else to go.

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Thursday, February 7, 2019 10:16 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Yup.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Thursday, February 7, 2019 12:09 PM

REAVERFAN


Billionaires who hate Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's 70% tax on the super-rich are adamant it will hurt the economy — but history suggests otherwise
https://www.businessinsider.com/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-70-percent-ma
rginal-tax-fix-impact-on-economy-2019-2?utm_source=reddit.com


New Deal policies were Eisenhower-era ideas which are now "radical leftist" ideas today.

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Thursday, February 7, 2019 1:01 PM

REAVERFAN


This woman is a force of nature.


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Thursday, February 7, 2019 1:12 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by reaverfan:
This woman is a force of nature.



So was Hurricane Katrina.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Thursday, February 7, 2019 5:45 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


People confuse socialism with a welfare state. Altho in reality there's a lot of overlap, the two are not the same. JSF is correct in saying
Quote:

A Socialist Government is one which controls all aspects of Production. Like Nazi Germany, for example.
"Nazi" is in fact a contraction of "national socialism". Ocasio-Cortez seems more interested in creating a welfare state.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

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Thursday, February 7, 2019 9:22 PM

REAVERFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
People confuse socialism with a welfare state. Altho in reality there's a lot of overlap, the two are not the same. JSF is correct in saying
Quote:

A Socialist Government is one which controls all aspects of Production. Like Nazi Germany, for example.
"Nazi" is in fact a contraction of "national socialism". Ocasio-Cortez seems more interested in creating a welfare state.


There you go again, trolling with lies, Russian troll.

Do I need to prove you're lying, or do you already know that, and will just concede that you are lying?

You are a sad POS.

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Thursday, February 7, 2019 9:59 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Do I need to prove you're lying
Yes.

But let's get one thing out of the way first: Nazi = Nationalsozialismus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

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Friday, February 8, 2019 4:29 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Well, if you call Social Security and Unions a welfare state. Then yes.


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
People confuse socialism with a welfare state. Altho in reality there's a lot of overlap, the two are not the same. JSF is correct in saying
Quote:

A Socialist Government is one which controls all aspects of Production. Like Nazi Germany, for example.
"Nazi" is in fact a contraction of "national socialism". Ocasio-Cortez seems more interested in creating a welfare state.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .


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Friday, February 8, 2019 6:12 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Let's get one thing out of the way first: Nazi = Nationalsozialismus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism

Let's get one thing out of the way first: Socialism = Democratic Party.
- Donald Trump, 2nd SOTU

In 1961, America faced what conservatives considered a mortal threat: calls for a national health insurance program covering senior citizens. In an attempt to avert this awful fate, the American Medical Association launched what it called Operation Coffee Cup, a pioneering attempt at viral marketing.

Here’s how it worked: Doctors’ wives (hey, it was 1961) were asked to invite their friends over and play them a recording in which Ronald Reagan explained that socialized medicine would destroy American freedom. The housewives, in turn, were supposed to write letters to Congress denouncing the menace of Medicare.

Obviously the strategy didn’t work; Medicare not only came into existence, but it became so popular that these days Republicans routinely (and falsely) accuse Democrats of planning to cut the program’s funding. But the strategy — claiming that any attempt to strengthen the social safety net or limit inequality will put us on a slippery slope to totalitarianism — endures.

And so it was that Donald Trump, in his State of the Union address, briefly turned to warnings about the threat from socialism (from Ocasio-Cortez' wish-list).

More at www.nytimes.com/2019/02/07/opinion/trump-socialism-state-of-the-union.
html


Trump Versus the Socialist Menace: The Commies are coming for your pickup trucks.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, February 8, 2019 8:22 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Well, if you call Social Security and Unions a welfare state. Then yes.
Let's tackle the last first: I don't consider unions to be part of a welfare state because they are not at all funded by government: They're self-organized and self-funded groups of workers who've banded together for better bargaining leverage. The only government involvement is the "freedom of association" clause under the First Amendment, which makes these organizations legal. (Originally, the US government was anti-union and very much in the strike-breaking mode.)

Yes, Social Security is one part of a welfare state. Welfare state-ism included Medicare, Medicaid, food stamps, free education, unemployment, school lunches, housing vouchers and housing assistance, disability payments, and other transfers of wealth or provision of services by the government. Medicare for All, and free post-high-school education would represent a large increase in the money committed to welfare state-ism.

Just to be clear: The institution of unemployment and Social Security was NOT to destroy capitalism, but to preserve it. FDR was facing a revolt by the people; in order to quell unrest he HAD to provide relief to people whom the capitalist system has so utterly failed. If he hadn't instituted state welfare, the capitalist system may have been overthrown.

WELFARE STATE-ISM IS ENTIRELY COMPATIBLE WITH CORPORATISM by serving as a buffer which makes an exploitative system more tolerable. Bread and circuses keep people quiet.

I don't have a huge problem with the government providing some services ... it's clear that the health insurances, big pharma, and hospital corporations have fucked up healthcare beyond all recognition. HOWEVER, I think it would be far better to understand how it is that ordinary people can no longer afford the basics of life, and how the wealth gap got so out-of-hand to being with, and SOLVE those problems instead of the government stepping in and softening the blow.

In fact, if anyone is proposing socialism, it's me, because (like JFK) I propose the government get actively involved in providing capital to businesses which will invest in essential categories of production, and not just take that money for stock buybacks and other financial speculation.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

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Friday, February 8, 2019 8:42 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Ocasio-Cortez has a NEW wish-list: The New Green Deal

Quote:

WASHINGTON (CNN) - The Green New Deal, which has so far been a campaign catchphrase about solving climate change and inequality in one fell swoop, just got real.

Democratic New York Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Sen. Ed Markey of Massachusetts are introducing a joint resolution Thursday laying out the main elements of a legislative plan. It describes a 10-year "economic mobilization" that would phase out fossil fuel use and overhaul the nation's infrastructure while building whole new layers into the existing social safety net.

The 14-page resolution envisions a shift to 100% renewable and zero-emission energy sources, and calls for the creation of millions of new high-wage jobs to help wipe out poverty.

While calling for the elimination of pollution and greenhouse gas emissions in agriculture, transportation, manufacturing and construction, the resolution contains no mention of bans or regulation, as other plans have described.

The closest it comes is a provision for existing and new laws to take into account the negative impacts of climate change — an approach that the Obama administration had taken through incorporating the "social cost of carbon" into rulemaking, which the Trump administration has pulled back on.

Instead, the document emphasizes massive public investment in wind and solar production, zero-emission vehicles and high-speed rail, energy-efficient buildings, and smart power grids, as well as "working collaboratively" with farmers and ranchers to move towards sustainable agriculture techniques.

The resolution also fleshes out something that's been core to the idea of the Green New Deal from the beginning: Remedying historic injustices visited upon the poor and people of color.

Public investments should prioritize what the resolution calls "frontline and vulnerable communities," which include people in rural and de-industrialized areas as well as those that depend on carbon-intensive industries like oil and gas extraction.

And in a move that may draw support from a broad range of advocacy groups, the resolution sweeps in the full range of progressive policy priorities: Providing universal healthcare and affordable housing, ensuring that all jobs have union protections and family-sustaining wages, and keeping the business environment free of monopolistic competition.

The cost of all this, and where the money to pay for it will come from, remains unclear.

Ocasio-Cortez and the groups supporting her push for the Green New Deal have declined to put a price tag on the plan, and it still lacks enough specifics to estimate with any kind of precision.

An analysis of another, similar plan by the conservative American Action Forum found pegged the regulatory burden at about $1 trillion, before any new investments.

Still, the New Dealers argue that a federally-funded energy transition would stimulate growth by providing jobs, improving public health, and reducing waste. In addition, they argue that the government could capture more return on investment by retaining equity stakes in the projects they build. More generally, however, they brush off cost concerns by pointing to unquestioned government spending on wars and tax cuts, which have ballooned deficits in the past.

"The question isn't how will we pay for it, but what is the cost of inaction, and what will we do with our new shared prosperity created by the investments in the Green New Deal," reads a fact sheet distributed along with the resolution.

In recent weeks, people ranging from Beto O'Rourke to Mike Bloomberg have professed support for the general idea. But the sheer scale of the resolution, which would entail a much larger role for the federal government than has been seen since the Great Depression, may make it difficult for more moderate politicians to claim they support the Green New Deal as now defined.


https://www.wsls.com/news/politics/ocasiocortezs-green-new-deal-whats-
in-it


The House New Green Deal resolution
https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/5729033/Green-New-Deal-FINA
L.pdf


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

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Friday, February 8, 2019 9:32 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Ocasio-Cortez has a NEW wish-list: The New Green Deal

Trump attacked Ocasio-Cortez, both old and new wish-list, in the SOTU:
Quote:

PRESIDENT: Here in the United States, we are alarmed by the new calls to adopt socialism in our country.

AUDIENCE: Booo —

THE PRESIDENT: America was founded on liberty and independence, and not government coercion, domination, and control. (Applause.) We are born free and we will stay free. (Applause.)

AUDIENCE: USA! USA! USA!

THE PRESIDENT: Tonight, we renew our resolve that America will never be a socialist country. (Applause.)

AUDIENCE: USA! USA! USA!


Quote:

And we have unleashed a revolution in American energy. The United States is now the number-one producer of oil and natural gas anywhere in the world. (Applause.) And now, for the first time in 65 years, we are a net exporter of energy. (Applause.)

After 24 months of rapid progress, our economy is the envy of the world, our military is the most powerful on Earth, by far, and America — (applause) — America is again winning each and every day. (Applause.)

Members of Congress: The state of our union is strong. (Applause.)

AUDIENCE: USA! USA! USA!

THE PRESIDENT: That sounds so good. (Laughter.)

www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-president-trump-state-
union-address-2
/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, February 8, 2019 10:45 AM

REAVERFAN


Your lies, utterly destroyed, Russian troll.




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Friday, February 8, 2019 10:45 AM

REAVERFAN


The above video proves you completely wrong and a liar, Russian troll.

So does this.

https://www.snopes.com/news/2017/09/05/were-nazis-socialists/

Now please, stop posting lies.

That means you should stop posting, period.

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Friday, February 8, 2019 11:14 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


lol Snopes

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Friday, February 8, 2019 11:22 AM

REAVERFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
lol Snopes

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Is Snopes "left wing?"

It is true that reality has a left bias.



You should just watch the video, then. No reading required.

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Friday, February 8, 2019 11:47 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Trump Jr. rips Ocasio-Cortez’s Green New Deal As ‘Socialism’

Ocasio-Cortez and Sen. Ed Markey (D-Mass.) outlined an ambitious “ten-year national mobilization” plan to build “smart grids” and boost power generated from the sun and wind to as close to 100 percent as possible over the next decade.

Donald Jr. scoffed at the inevitable failure of the idea that sounded to him like “socialism.”

www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-jr-ocasio-cortez-green-new-d
eal-socialism_us_5c5d02cfe4b0e01e32aaff06


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, February 8, 2019 12:52 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by reaverfan:
Your lies, utterly destroyed, Russian troll.



I have no idea what your video is trying to say. In any case, I wasn't even posting about "fascism" - which seems to be what this video is all about (except dissing Prager U) - so your post is entirely misdirected. We were discussing socialism versus the welfare state. JSF's definition of socialism is correct. You brains must have exploded out of your head a long, long time ago.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, February 8, 2019 1:22 PM

REAVERFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

Originally posted by reaverfan:
Your lies, utterly destroyed, Russian troll.



I have no idea what your video is trying to say. In any case, I wasn't even posting about "fascism" - which seems to be what this video is all about (except dissing Prager U) - so your post is entirely misdirected. We were discussing socialism versus the welfare state. JSF's definition of socialism is correct. You brains must have exploded out of your head a long, long time ago.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

Having been totally destroyed again, the Russian troll backpedals, embarrassed by my victory over their lies. The deep shame of defeat burns in their weak mind.

You lose, yet again. I crushed you.

The Nazis weren't socialists. They murdered socialists.

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Friday, February 8, 2019 1:25 PM

REAVERFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Trump Jr. rips Ocasio-Cortez’s Green New Deal As ‘Socialism’

Ocasio-Cortez and Sen. Ed Markey (D-Mass.) outlined an ambitious “ten-year national mobilization” plan to build “smart grids” and boost power generated from the sun and wind to as close to 100 percent as possible over the next decade.

Donald Jr. scoffed at the inevitable failure of the idea that sounded to him like “socialism.”

www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-jr-ocasio-cortez-green-new-d
eal-socialism_us_5c5d02cfe4b0e01e32aaff06


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Dumb as his dad.

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Friday, February 8, 2019 2:37 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
People confuse socialism with a welfare state. Altho in reality there's a lot of overlap, the two are not the same. JSF is correct in saying
Quote:

A Socialist Government is one which controls all aspects of Production. Like Nazi Germany, for example.
"Nazi" is in fact a contraction of "national socialism". Ocasio-Cortez seems more interested in creating a welfare state.

Many realize overlap is not merely coincidence, but that Socialism is the cause of the Welfare State effect. This Cause and Effect is a delayed overlap, a time-offset overlap.



America may not be converted to Nazism, but not due to lack of trying from Democrats.
The Democrat Party Platform is not most closely aligned with Elected Democrats. The Democrat Platform is most closely aligned with Elected Socialists. This is the Democrat Party of America.

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Friday, February 8, 2019 2:51 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Ocasio-Cortez has a NEW wish-list: The New Green Deal

Quote:

WASHINGTON (CNN) - The Green New Deal, which has so far been a campaign catchphrase about solving climate change and inequality in one fell swoop, just got real.

Democratic New York Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Sen. Ed Markey of Massachusetts are introducing a joint resolution Thursday laying out the main elements of a legislative plan. It describes a 10-year "economic mobilization" that would phase out fossil fuel use and overhaul the nation's infrastructure while building whole new layers into the existing social safety net.

The 14-page resolution envisions a shift to 100% renewable and zero-emission energy sources, and calls for the creation of millions of new high-wage jobs to help wipe out poverty.

While calling for the elimination of pollution and greenhouse gas emissions in agriculture, transportation, manufacturing and construction, the resolution contains no mention of bans or regulation, as other plans have described.

The closest it comes is a provision for existing and new laws to take into account the negative impacts of climate change — an approach that the Obama administration had taken through incorporating the "social cost of carbon" into rulemaking, which the Trump administration has pulled back on.

Instead, the document emphasizes massive public investment in wind and solar production, zero-emission vehicles and high-speed rail, energy-efficient buildings, and smart power grids, as well as "working collaboratively" with farmers and ranchers to move towards sustainable agriculture techniques.

The resolution also fleshes out something that's been core to the idea of the Green New Deal from the beginning: Remedying historic injustices visited upon the poor and people of color.

Public investments should prioritize what the resolution calls "frontline and vulnerable communities," which include people in rural and de-industrialized areas as well as those that depend on carbon-intensive industries like oil and gas extraction.

And in a move that may draw support from a broad range of advocacy groups, the resolution sweeps in the full range of progressive policy priorities: Providing universal healthcare and affordable housing, ensuring that all jobs have union protections and family-sustaining wages, and keeping the business environment free of monopolistic competition.

The cost of all this, and where the money to pay for it will come from, remains unclear.

Ocasio-Cortez and the groups supporting her push for the Green New Deal have declined to put a price tag on the plan, and it still lacks enough specifics to estimate with any kind of precision.

An analysis of another, similar plan by the conservative American Action Forum found pegged the regulatory burden at about $1 trillion, before any new investments.

Still, the New Dealers argue that a federally-funded energy transition would stimulate growth by providing jobs, improving public health, and reducing waste. In addition, they argue that the government could capture more return on investment by retaining equity stakes in the projects they build. More generally, however, they brush off cost concerns by pointing to unquestioned government spending on wars and tax cuts, which have ballooned deficits in the past.

"The question isn't how will we pay for it, but what is the cost of inaction, and what will we do with our new shared prosperity created by the investments in the Green New Deal," reads a fact sheet distributed along with the resolution.

In recent weeks, people ranging from Beto O'Rourke to Mike Bloomberg have professed support for the general idea. But the sheer scale of the resolution, which would entail a much larger role for the federal government than has been seen since the Great Depression, may make it difficult for more moderate politicians to claim they support the Green New Deal as now defined.


https://www.wsls.com/news/politics/ocasiocortezs-green-new-deal-whats-
in-it


The House New Green Deal resolution
https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/5729033/Green-New-Deal-FINA
L.pdf


A 10-year Plan.

For America.

A very small portion of the world. Not the largest land area. Not the largest Population. Not the largest polluter.

A world that ends in 12 years.


Logic is certainly not within the wheelhouse of AO-C, or that crook Markey.

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Friday, February 8, 2019 3:03 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:


Your lies, utterly destroyed, Russian troll.

I have no idea what your video is trying to say. In any case, I wasn't even posting about "fascism" - which seems to be what this video is all about (except dissing Prager U) - so your post is entirely misdirected. We were discussing socialism versus the welfare state. JSF's definition of socialism is correct. You brains must have exploded out of your head a long, long time ago.

The Nazis weren't socialists. They murdered socialists.REAVERBOT


Oh because socialists would never murder socialists??

That's about as ridiculous as saying that Christians would never murder Christians (see 100 Years War).

I could go into great detail about the vying power structures in Germany between the national socialists (Nazis) and the international socialists ("communists") but it would be lost on you. Your argument is as devoid of reality as arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, or whether the wine and bread REALLY become the blood and body of Christ or merely represent it,

Wars have been fought over less.





-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

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Friday, February 8, 2019 3:34 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

Do I need to prove you're lying
Yes.

But let's get one thing out of the way first: Nazi = Nationalsozialismus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism


Has the Trollbot made any attempt to prove?

Other than claiming that Socialists are not Socialists?

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Friday, February 8, 2019 10:15 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


No, REAVERBOT has not proved anything.

Back to the topic at-hand. With AOC's new wishlist, she has moved from welfare statist to actual socialist, as it seems she wants to control energy production and energy conservation.

However, she's still relying on The Fed, which is a fatal flaw in her thinking. There are a three reasons why its a terrible idea, environmentally, financially, and ideologically, to contntinue to allow The Fed's continued existence, but I'm not going to go into that now... just too busy.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

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Friday, February 8, 2019 10:23 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK



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Saturday, February 9, 2019 7:36 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Back to the topic at-hand. With AOC's new wishlist, she has moved from welfare statist to actual socialist, as it seems she wants to control energy production and energy conservation.

However, she's still relying on The Fed, which is a fatal flaw in her thinking. There are a three reasons why its a terrible idea, environmentally, financially, and ideologically, to continue to allow The Fed's continued existence, but I'm not going to go into that now... just too busy.

The GOP does not believe that greenhouse gases change the climate. Since CO2 is not a problem in the opinion of the GOP, fossil fuels are not a problem and the cheapest energy will be burning fossil fuel for power. Trump administration on Wednesday (Feb. 6) moved to roll back an Obama-era rule that would make light bulbs more efficient. More CO2. https://qz.com/1546400/ Trump did the same with vehicle mileage standards. More CO2. And coal. More CO2.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Saturday, February 9, 2019 10:42 AM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


Anybody who uses "Socialism" or "Socialist" because they know the lowbrows will consider it a smear, are just dead in the head. That's ancient, backward, minimal thinking at best. Think first of the problem and then how to solve it. Be as creative and inventive as you can, everything is on the table. It's called a "Wish List" for a reason. I'd call it a "Should List." We should have energy independence, we should have Health Care for all. And not just average HC, but leading the world health care. We should have free college, we should have... on and on. If you don't put the goals out there you have what we have now - old selfish crabbie rich f*cking white dudes just hanging and f*ck everyone else.

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Saturday, February 9, 2019 12:50 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Back to the topic at-hand. With AOC's new wishlist, she has moved from welfare statist to actual socialist, as it seems she wants to control energy production and energy conservation.

However, she's still relying on The Fed, which is a fatal flaw in her thinking. There are a three reasons why its a terrible idea, environmentally, financially, and ideologically, to continue to allow The Fed's continued existence, but I'm not going to go into that now... just too busy. SIGNY

The GOP does not believe that greenhouse gases change the climate. Since CO2 is not a problem in the opinion of the GOP, fossil fuels are not a problem and the cheapest energy will be burning fossil fuel for power. Trump administration on Wednesday (Feb. 6) moved to roll back an Obama-era rule that would make light bulbs more efficient. More CO2. https://qz.com/1546400/ Trump did the same with vehicle mileage standards. More CO2. And coal. More CO2.


Well this is one area where I profoundly disagree with Trump specifically and the GOP in general. I also disagree with the LaRouche end of the Libertarians on that issue, since they believe that there is no limit to human growth and development because technology will always find new energy sources. Sorry, but what does that have to do with the topic? I'm not a single-issue voter, and IMHO the first thing that ANY President needs to do BEFORE instituting environmental regulations is to not make them hostage to "free trade" agreements. So AOC can thank Trump for keeping us out of two of the worst free trade boondoggles, and preserving her ability to dream big about possible solutions to the problem, and so can you and REAVERBOT.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

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Saturday, February 9, 2019 1:12 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by captaincrunch:
Anybody who uses "Socialism" or "Socialist" because they know the lowbrows will consider it a smear, are just dead in the head. That's ancient, backward, minimal thinking at best. Think first of the problem and then how to solve it. Be as creative and inventive as you can, everything is on the table. It's called a "Wish List" for a reason. I'd call it a "Should List." We should have energy independence, we should have Health Care for all. And not just average HC, but leading the world health care. We should have free college, we should have... on and on. If you don't put the goals out there you have what we have now - old selfish crabbie rich f*cking white dudes just hanging and f*ck everyone else.



Before people used "socialism" as a smear, they used "commie". (Now, they use "Russian".) Then, when "socialism" became a smear, left-wing Democrats called themselves "Liberals". When "liberal" became a smear, they opted to call themselves "progressives". Now, I don't know WTF the left-end of the Democratic Party calls themselves, since they've allowed themselves to be pushed off their nomeclature.

I suggest that people use the already-established definitions, as I do. If you believe that government should have a large hand in funding and determining production, you're a socialist; and if you believe in a national character to socialism (as opposed to global or international socialism) you're a national socialist. If you believe that such a government should be under control of the popular vote, you're a democratic socialist. If you believe that corporations should control government, you're a fascist. If you believe that governments should be under the control of international banks and corporations, you're an international fascist, AKA globalist. If you believe that corporatism is the right economc system but that government needs to step in to ameliorate its worst excesses, then you believe in the welfare state.

Just keep in mind that there are political and economic dimensions to any description of government, and try not to confuse the two. There are democracies (with votes) and authoritarian governments (without votes, like China), there are centralizing forces (Like the international bank cartel) and decentralizing ones (in the current push towards globalism, nationalism counts as a decentralizing force, as does separatism) there are economic systems where the government controls almost all aspects of production (like the defunct USSR) or is a majority stakeholder in most production (China, own more than 50% of production as State Owned Enterprises or SOEs, plus does NOT have a private central bank), and economic systems where the government does not control or own even the most basic production like energy (the USA).

In reality, nations are a mix of the above.

Also, "Communism" has never existed, since it is international/ global socialism, so calling someone a communist is like calling them a purple dragon. Even socialism has never been instituted 100%. The closest any nations have gotten to socialism are the USSR, China, and Cuba. China is still closer to socialism than Russia or Cuba.

So when I call AOC a "socialist" I mean that she truly wants to control how energy iss produced and used, which means that she wants to control large aspects of production (what is produced, and how) since energy threads its way through every productive ctivity.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

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Saturday, February 9, 2019 1:41 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

Back to the topic at-hand. With AOC's new wishlist, she has moved from welfare statist to actual socialist, as it seems she wants to control energy production and energy conservation.

However, she's still relying on The Fed, which is a fatal flaw in her thinking. There are a three reasons why its a terrible idea, environmentally, financially, and ideologically, to continue to allow The Fed's continued existence, but I'm not going to go into that now... just too busy. SIGNY

The GOP does not believe that greenhouse gases change the climate. Since CO2 is not a problem in the opinion of the GOP, fossil fuels are not a problem and the cheapest energy will be burning fossil fuel for power. Trump administration on Wednesday (Feb. 6) moved to roll back an Obama-era rule that would make light bulbs more efficient. More CO2. https://qz.com/1546400/ Trump did the same with vehicle mileage standards. More CO2. And coal. More CO2.


Well this is one area where I profoundly disagree with Trump specifically and the GOP in general. I also disagree with the LaRouche end of the Libertarians on that issue, since they believe that there is no limit to human growth and development because technology will always find new energy sources. Sorry, but what does that have to do with the topic? I'm not a single-issue voter, and IMHO the first thing that ANY President needs to do BEFORE instituting environmental regulations is to not make them hostage to "free trade" agreements. So AOC can thank Trump for keeping us out of two of the worst free trade boondoggles, and preserving her ability to dream big about possible solutions to the problem, and so can you and REAVERBOT.

You disagree with something specific from the GOP or Trump? Or you disagree with what second posits as the viewpoint of somebody else?
Second never tells the truth when ranting in his tangential diatribes.

So what are you disagreeing with?

Is CO2 your concern? I have not heard mention of rainforests lately. Do you feel wildfires add CO2? Instead of growing a little wood and then burning it in wildfires, would it not be better to harvest the wood and restart the wood growth before it is lost to wildfire? The harvested wood would displace some of the need for rainforest lumber.

I have forgotten the answer to this: does a mature wood consume more CO2, or a growing wood or saplings in a similar footprint? We know that for fauna, the growth stage consumes far more essential resources than the full grown adult - is that the same for flora?

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Saturday, February 9, 2019 2:47 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

You disagree with something specific from the GOP or Trump? Or you disagree with what second posits as the viewpoint of somebody else?
Second never tells the truth when ranting in his tangential diatribes.

Tell me if I am wrong: the GOP knows that billions of tons of CO2 are released by the USA every year, but the GOP claims that CO2 should increase because it makes no difference to climate. Last week, Trump said it was too cold in a wisecrack about NOT limiting CO2. It is about money. It will cost money to reduce CO2 and the GOP doesn't want to pay, therefore it argues that ever increasing CO2 is not a problem. I saw the same from Republicans about dumping sewage into Galveston Bay. The Federal government had to take dozens of utility districts to court, litigating for decades, to get them to build properly functioning sewage treatment facilities. The districts saved money by not treating their sewage and claiming that the Gulf of Mexico would clean it up. It's cheaper to dump raw sewage into the bayou and let Nature take care of it. Now it is cheaper to let Nature take care of CO2.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Saturday, February 9, 2019 2:59 PM

REAVERFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:


Your lies, utterly destroyed, Russian troll.

I have no idea what your video is trying to say. In any case, I wasn't even posting about "fascism" - which seems to be what this video is all about (except dissing Prager U) - so your post is entirely misdirected. We were discussing socialism versus the welfare state. JSF's definition of socialism is correct. You brains must have exploded out of your head a long, long time ago.

The Nazis weren't socialists. They murdered socialists.REAVERBOT


Oh because socialists would never murder socialists??

That's about as ridiculous as saying that Christians would never murder Christians (see 100 Years War).

I could go into great detail about the vying power structures in Germany between the national socialists (Nazis) and the international socialists ("communists") but it would be lost on you. Your argument is as devoid of reality as arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, or whether the wine and bread REALLY become the blood and body of Christ or merely represent it,

Wars have been fought over less.





-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

You lied, and got owned. Man up, Russian troll. Liars lose when they try to tangle with their betters.

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Saturday, February 9, 2019 3:05 PM

REAVERFAN


Tucker gets his ass handed to him, yet again.


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Saturday, February 9, 2019 4:14 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.



Quote:

Back to the topic at-hand. With AOC's new wishlist, she has moved from welfare statist to actual socialist, as it seems she wants to control energy production and energy conservation.

However, she's still relying on The Fed, which is a fatal flaw in her thinking. There are a three reasons why its a terrible idea, environmentally, financially, and ideologically, to continue to allow The Fed's continued existence, but I'm not going to go into that now... just too busy. SIGNY

The GOP does not believe that greenhouse gases change the climate. Since CO2 is not a problem in the opinion of the GOP, fossil fuels are not a problem and the cheapest energy will be burning fossil fuel for power. Trump administration on Wednesday (Feb. 6) moved to roll back an Obama-era rule that would make light bulbs more efficient. More CO2. https://qz.com/1546400/ Trump did the same with vehicle mileage standards. More CO2. And coal. More CO2. - SECOND

Well this is one area where I profoundly disagree with Trump specifically and the GOP in general. I also disagree with the LaRouche end of the Libertarians on that issue, since they believe that there is no limit to human growth and development because technology will always find new energy sources. Sorry, but what does that have to do with the topic? I'm not a single-issue voter, and IMHO the first thing that ANY President needs to do BEFORE instituting environmental regulations is to not make them hostage to "free trade" agreements. So AOC can thank Trump for keeping us out of two of the worst free trade boondoggles, and preserving her ability to dream big about possible solutions to the problem, and so can you and REAVERBOT.- SIGNY

You disagree with something specific from the GOP or Trump? Or you disagree with what second posits as the viewpoint of somebody else?
Second never tells the truth when ranting in his tangential diatribes.

So what are you disagreeing with?

Is CO2 your concern?

Yes
Quote:

I have not heard mention of rainforests lately.
I have.

Quote:

Do you feel wildfires add CO2? Instead of growing a little wood and then burning it in wildfires, would it not be better to harvest the wood and restart the wood growth before it is lost to wildfire? The harvested wood would displace some of the need for rainforest lumber.
The problem with wood harvesting is that the lumber companies promote clear-cutting even in old=growth forests, not the forest-thinning (clearing out the many small trees crowding the landscape) which is completely non-economic from a timber POV. That is why I have suggested producing biochar and biofuel in situ for forest-thinning operations ... at least you can get SOME economic recovery from that.
Also, rainforests aren't being cleared for timber, they're being cleared for agriculture. In Brazil, for soy and cattle, in Indonesia and maylaysia for palm oil.

Quote:

I have forgotten the answer to this: does a mature wood consume more CO2, or a growing wood or saplings in a similar footprint? We know that for fauna, the growth stage consumes far more essential resources than the full grown adult - is that the same for flora?
IIRC large trees store more carbon per footprint than small ones. It's a difficult measurement to make, but studies have been done. I'll look it up again when I get the chance.

One way to look at it tho.. while a young sapling can grow 2' per year, a large mature tree can add thirty pounds in one season ... carbon storage unlikely to be matched by a younger, smaller tree.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

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Saturday, February 9, 2019 7:08 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


We should probably start harvesting hemp again, now that weed is being legalized all over the country.

Why isn't that at thing?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, February 9, 2019 9:58 PM

REAVERFAN


It should be. Hemp is great for absorbing CO2 and putting out oxygen.

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Saturday, February 9, 2019 10:27 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
We should probably start harvesting hemp again, now that weed is being legalized all over the country.

Why isn't that at thing?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Probably because it is Illegal, all over the country. There is no place in America where it is not Illegal.

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Saturday, February 9, 2019 10:32 PM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Before people used "socialism" as a smear, they used "commie". (Now, they use "Russian".) Then, when "socialism" became a smear, left-wing Democrats called themselves "Liberals". When "liberal" became a smear, they opted to call themselves "progressives". Now, I don't know WTF the left-end of the Democratic Party calls themselves, since they've allowed themselves to be pushed off their nomeclature.



Why do "they" have to call themselves something? Do they do it or does the opposition do it to smear? I think we know the answer (I do). > Insert Monty Python skit here <

Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I suggest that people use the already-established definitions, as I do. If you believe that government should have a large hand in funding and determining production, you're a socialist; and if you believe in a national character to socialism (as opposed to global or international socialism) you're a national socialist. If you believe that such a government should be under control of the popular vote, you're a democratic socialist. If you believe that corporations should control government, you're a fascist. If you believe that governments should be under the control of international banks and corporations, you're an international fascist, AKA globalist. If you believe that corporatism is the right economc system but that government needs to step in to ameliorate its worst excesses, then you believe in the welfare state.



^Yep - you subscribe to old, limited, simple minded ways of thinking. That's the past - cya bye.

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Saturday, February 9, 2019 10:33 PM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Probably because it is Illegal, all over the country. There is no place in America where it is not Illegal.



Or...

https://www.vox.com/the-goods/2018/12/13/18139678/cbd-industry-hemp-le
galization-farm-bill


Hemp is now legal. That’s huge for the CBD industry.
Legalizing hemp may also be important for scientists who want to study CBD’s effects.

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