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U.S. Constitution

Amendment XIV

Section 1.

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

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The World Bank found that if the debt-to-GDP ratio exceeds this tipping point for an extended period of time, it slows the economy. Every percentage point of debt above this level costs the country 1.7 percent in economic growth.

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
https://www.thebalance.com/current-u-s-federal-budget-deficit-3305783

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The World Bank found that if the debt-to-GDP ratio exceeds this tipping point for an extended period of time, it slows the economy. Every percentage point of debt above this level costs the country 1.7 percent in economic growth.

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SGG

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
lol. I think your thread title distracts folks from your point.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
https://www.thebalance.com/current-u-s-federal-budget-deficit-3305783

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The World Bank found that if the debt-to-GDP ratio exceeds this tipping point for an extended period of time, it slows the economy. Every percentage point of debt above this level costs the country 1.7 percent in economic growth.

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SGG

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Weird that you would bring this up at this time.

I already made clear that, despite these known repercussions, Obama spent 8 years continuing to bloat the Debt while strangling the Economy. And with Trump's First Budget the percentage was cut into, the difference between Debt and GDP reduced.
And now, only last Friday, was the report issued that Trump's First full FY has cut even more, reducing the Excess by as much as 25%.

Are you starting to extoll the virtues of Trump's Economic Policies?

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Because your topic title has nothing to do with your point.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
You CAN re-title your thread. When you open the thread, in the upper right-hand corner you - as the thread author- will see an "EDIT THREAD" link. If you click on that, it will bring up your OP in editable format, INCLUDING the title. Just delete what you don't want, type in what you meant to say, hit "UPDATE", and you'll be done.

I suggest something like "Trump uses caravan to distract from deficit" or something like; that will be a lot more in line with what you intended to discuss I think.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I've thought pretty hard about all of this, which is why SECOND and the rest piss me off by assuming that I'm some sort of redneck racist.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
And the USA will not be able to craft a reasonable health care plan if millions of poor people are flooding into the USA with their previously unmet health needs. We have that problem in CA ... some of our more progressive politicians want to implement health care for ALL residents of CA (citizen or not) but it's impossible to find the funding to do that. Heck, we can't even deal with our own large homeless population.

It's not that I don't want Medicare for all . . .

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There won’t be a Californian version of medicare-for-all because the richest 50% of Californians won't pay for the poorest 50%. The rich will vote against it.

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But if there was a political miracle, and medicare-for-all became law in CA, it would be easy to keep illegal aliens out of the doctor’s office using the same method that keeps people younger than 65 out of Medicare run by DC, not by CA. It is called your Medicare number on your Medicare ID card. Works perfectly. It kept me out until I turned 65. It will keep illegal aliens out. California simply refuses to issue a CA-Medicare card to illegal aliens, just the same as Washington DC refused to issue me a DC-Medicare card until I was old.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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There won’t be a Californian version of medicare-for-all because the richest 50% of Californians won't pay for the poorest 50%. The rich will vote against it.

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Obviously you don't know California. There isn't a "richest 50%", it's more like a "richest 5%".

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But if there was a political miracle, and medicare-for-all became law in CA, it would be easy to keep illegal aliens out of the doctor’s office using the same method that keeps people younger than 65 out of Medicare run by DC, not by CA. It is called your Medicare number on your Medicare ID card. Works perfectly. It kept me out until I turned 65. It will keep illegal aliens out. California simply refuses to issue a CA-Medicare card to illegal aliens, just the same as Washington DC refused to issue me a DC-Medicare card until I was old.

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And just as obviously, you don't know CA politics. The people who're pushing for universal coverage in CA aren't pushing for universal coverage just for citizens, they're pushing for universal coverage for EVERY resident, legal or not. Considering CA's "sanctuary" policy plus the fact that somewhere between 5-10% represent illegal aliens, that's a huge number of unfunded people to cover.

If they would restrict their plan to citizens, that would be a plan I could get behind.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

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Signym, you are lying, again. Business and health care organizations in California have joined forces to oppose any effort to craft a universal, single-payer health care system for the nation’s largest state.

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California governor candidate Gavin Newsom is vocal supporter of single-payer health care, sometimes:
... Last year, he endorsed the amended Healthy California Act, SB 562, which called for covering every Californian, including undocumented immigrants, under one public program.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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Signym, you are lying, again. Business and health care organizations in California have joined forces to oppose any effort to craft a universal, single-payer health care system for the nation’s largest state.

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You are such a fucking ass, SECOND, constantly arguing with the voices in your head and pretending to know things about which you have not a fucking clue.

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California governor candidate Gavin Newsom is vocal supporter of single-payer health care, sometimes:
... Last year, he endorsed the amended Healthy California Act, SB 562, which called for covering every Californian, including undocumented immigrants, under one public program.

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The measure is also supported by Assembly Speaker Anthony Rendon (D).

It's not that I expect this bill to go through, it's that some of our Democratic politicians are idiot enough to endorse it.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

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Signym, CA's version of Medicare for all will not be passed AND the blame does not rest upon illegal immigrants being allowed to use it by shortsighted politicians. The fault is the cost.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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Signym, CA's version of Medicare for all will not be passed AND the blame does not rest upon illegal immigrants being allowed to use it by shortsighted politicians. The fault is the cost.

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Cost: which is driven up by people with large needs who are not contributing to the system.

As I mentioned earlier, between myself and my hubby, our employers were contributing about $5200 per month for three people. That's over 4X what would be required for expen$ive individual policies for three people. If this were expressed as a "tax" it would sound huge, but because it's an employer "contribution" to an insurance company it doesn't get the attention it deserves. If you were to add up ALL of the money that California sinks into healthcare: all of the contributions from large employers, all of the Medicare/ Medicaid money that comes from the Federal government, the county taxes which fund (in part) county healthcare programs, the individual premiums and deductibles that people pay into the system ... would it be enough to fund single-payer insurance? It might be. But if you add in a few million illegal aliens who are (mostly) working under the table (paid in cash at low-wage or day jobs) who aren't contributing to either Social Security or Medicare, they're taking a lot out of a system to which they're not contributing.

And then, combined with California's "sanctuary" policy, and its commitment to building low-cost housing for the unhoused, you have created a powerful magnet for illegal aliens which works like this:

FREE HEALTHCARE!
FREE EDUCATION!
LOW-COST HOUSING!
NO QUESTIONS ASKED!

*****

I ran across a talk radio program that I never listened to before (KABC 790) and the topic that I landed on happened to be about illegal immigration. There was a kindergarten teacher on who, in a sweet and worried tone of voice, said that the many illegal alien children in her class - who don't speak English- have so many educational deficits and unmet health and psychological needs that they take up most of her time and take away form the other children in the class. She said that when she went into teaching 5 years earlier, she wanted to help and believed oppositely, but that experience has taught her otherwise.

We can't POSSIBLY provide jobs housing, infrastructure (roads, water, power etc); language, educational, integration, policing, and health services to an unlimited number of illegal aliens, most of whom are economic migrants, not refugees or political asylees without degrading our ability to provide such services to our own citizens. If we intend to do more than "let" them in our country and "allow" them to settle like pigeons anywhere they can find a small roost, and integrate them into our nation, they come with a high set of needs.

We CAN provide those services to a LIMITED number of immigrants. We can do right by them: We can give them healthcare and education and language services and civics lessons, and help them find housing and do all of the things that we should be doing if we really want to HELP them. But all of that is a good reason to institute LIMITS ON IMMIGRATION.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

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Signym, you blamed the immigrants. But it is the prices that are too high, not that there are too many immigrants. The U.S. health care is by far the most expensive on the planet.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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Signym, you blamed the immigrants. But it is the prices that are too high, not that there are too many immigrants. The U.S. health care is by far the most expensive on the planet.

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I'm not posting about "the US", I'm posting about CALIFORNIA, which has one of the highest (if not THE highest) percentages of illegal aliens in the nation, and our "progressive" California politicians who're supporting "free health care" for everyone, PLUS a "sanctuary" policy.

But, if you want to extend that to the entire USA: Do you think that's a workable policy for America for the foreseeable future?

You claim to be a realist who can do math, so do the math.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
So, as usual, you failed to address my point. What do you think of extending healthcare to illegal aliens, combined with a sanctuary policy?

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Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

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Originally posted by second:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
So, as usual, you failed to address my point. What do you think of extending healthcare to illegal aliens, combined with a sanctuary policy?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

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Signym, your point is full of shit. You know fucking nothing, you twit. If the GOP doesn't have the money to deport the aliens, or bring Medicare for all, then raise you goddamn tax instead of promising to lower them. You can't have these things if you won't pay.

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Yep

T

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
SECOND I edited my post, so see above for the most recent version.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

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There were three things I was hoping Trump would accomplish, because I believe they're extremely important and because they're in any President's purview of foreign policy:

1) Kill TPP and TTIP. DONE. Those would have given up our sovereignty to trade tribunals. Also, it would be nice to extricate ourselves from NAFTA, CAFTA, and other "free trade" agreements.

2) Reverse illegal immigration. IN PROCESS.

3) End our endless wars. FAILURE.

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Troop Deployment to the Border Will Cost $220 Million, and the Pentagon Seems to Think It’s a Waste

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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Signym, CA's version of Medicare for all will not be passed AND the blame does not rest upon illegal immigrants being allowed to use it by shortsighted politicians. The fault is the cost.

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Cost: which is driven up by people with large needs who are not contributing to the system.

As I mentioned earlier, between myself and my hubby, our employers were contributing about $5200 per month for three people. That's over 4X what would be required for expen$ive individual policies for three people. If this were expressed as a "tax" it would sound huge, but because it's an employer "contribution" to an insurance company it doesn't get the attention it deserves.

*****

I ran across a talk radio program that I never listened to before (KABC 790) and the topic that I landed on happened to be about illegal immigration.

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Ooooooops. Talk Radio?

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
SECOND, I voted for Trump to do THREE THINGS. Do you recall what those were? I certainly repeated them often enough!

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There were three things I was hoping Trump would accomplish, because I believe they're extremely important and because they're in any President's purview of foreign policy:

1) Kill TPP and TTIP. DONE. Those would have given up our sovereignty to trade tribunals. Also, it would be nice to extricate ourselves from NAFTA, CAFTA, and other "free trade" agreements.

2) Reverse illegal immigration. IN PROCESS.

3) End our endless wars. FAILURE.

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http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=61953&p=3

I didn't specify HOW Trump should reverse illegal immigration, but I will tell you that part of that effort HAS to be changing our policies, because until you change policy you'll simply be doing the same things over and over again with no permanent result ... yanno, kind of like housework. To that effect, I applaud any effort that Trump makes towards changing our policies, in addition to any effort he makes at securing our borders and deporting illegal aliens. The policy changes that Trump has proposed either have been, or still need to be, tested in court.

Now, I've asked you several times what YOU think of some of our CA politicians' proposed policies on healthcare (FREE for everyone!) and implemented policies on sanctuary. Not what the Dem party should or shouldn't do, but what YOU think.

You DO think, don't you?

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

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What do I think about California's proposed policies on healthcare or anything? Why would I care? It's not my state of Texas. I don't care what CA does

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
SECOND operates on blind hatred of republicans, which is why SECOND's turned blindly to democrats. That's why pre-2016 election SECOND pointedly refused to discuss Hillary's shortcomings, the DNC's corruption, the ludicrous Platform ... or anything at all faulty with a 'D' attached to it. It's why SECOND got so butt-hurt when Trump won. It's why SECOND refuses to discuss disastrous 'democratic' policies, why SECOND won't acknowledge illegal immigration is a problem - in short, why SECOND acts like a brain-dead troll.




tic tac

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Hey Kiki, not to defend anyone or any such nonsense. I do have a question regarding your reply, and this goes for Signym as well.

If what you say about Second blindly following Dems and refusing to accept the alleged shortcomings of the DNC is true. Then that would mean, and correct me if I am wrong on this, wouldn't the opposite be true on your part. Or should I say, that you blindly support the ideals and actions of the Republican party?

Again, just curious, although I think I know the answer.- SGG

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Darth Cheney
His fingerprints are all over everything... from the OSP (Office of Special Plans) which "vetted" Iraq intelligence (bypassing the usual security agencies) to this...
WASHINGTON - Vice President Dick Cheney's office pushed for major deletions in congressional testimony on the public health consequences of climate change, fearing the presentation by a leading health official might make it harder to avoid regulating greenhouse gases, a former EPA officials maintains

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Hoo yeah! The economy's ON FIRE!
But not in a good way.
Big selloff on Wall Street
Dow, down 360 pts.
http://money.cnn.com/2007/11/07/markets/markets_405/index.htm
Dollar hits new lows, lashed by China reserves view
www.reuters.com/article/hotStocksNews/idUSKIM17880720071107
Biggest Slump in US Housing in the Last 40 Years
www.rgemonitor.com/blog/roubini/142759
We have eight years of Bush's aggressive "trickle down" economics to thank.
THANKS, MR. BUSH!

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Katrina-related accusations Part II
My temper is not what it used to be. I'm quite frankly fed up with Bush apologists who minimize at every turn Bush and his henchmen's (or is it Cheney and his henchmen's) perfectly deliberate and fully-aware complicity in the biggest disasters of their reign. Katrina is only one of these many disasters.

This is not "bureaucracy-as-usual" incompetence. The videotapes of Bush's disengaged- one might even say glazed- response to looming disaster, and his effing excuses ("No one could have predicted....") for failure, are remarkably similar to Secretary O'Neill's first-hand account of a President who appears swamped by anything that requires an actual decision.

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You guys see this? Do you see this? I expect apologies and six-packs from each one of ya. - Terry
Dante's Peak

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I don't know SGG. Did Sig just tip her hand. Look how she responds to your post directed to KIKI. As though she is KIKI. Am I missing something here? Is Sig, kiki? Sig, you sock puppet you.
T

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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Hey Kiki, not to defend anyone or any such nonsense. I do have a question regarding your reply, and this goes for Signym as well.

If what you say about Second blindly following Dems and refusing to accept the alleged shortcomings of the DNC is true. Then that would mean, and correct me if I am wrong on this, wouldn't the opposite be true on your part. Or should I say, that you blindly support the ideals and actions of the Republican party?

Again, just curious, although I think I know the answer.- SGG

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Was this meant to be a rhetorical question? Because you imply that you think the answer is "yes", but if you REALLY knew my posting history, you'd know that I tore GWB a new hole pretty much every time I posted here because I thought his foreign, fiscal, environmental, economic, and social policies were 100% idiocy. But then, I also thought he was Cheney's sock puppet. Let me go into the wayback machine for some examples for you, just to show you that I'm not blowing smoke

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Darth Cheney
His fingerprints are all over everything... from the OSP (Office of Special Plans) which "vetted" Iraq intelligence (bypassing the usual security agencies) to this...
WASHINGTON - Vice President Dick Cheney's office pushed for major deletions in congressional testimony on the public health consequences of climate change, fearing the presentation by a leading health official might make it harder to avoid regulating greenhouse gases, a former EPA officials maintains

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http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=34202

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Hoo yeah! The economy's ON FIRE!
But not in a good way.
Big selloff on Wall Street
Dow, down 360 pts.
http://money.cnn.com/2007/11/07/markets/markets_405/index.htm
Dollar hits new lows, lashed by China reserves view
www.reuters.com/article/hotStocksNews/idUSKIM17880720071107
Biggest Slump in US Housing in the Last 40 Years
www.rgemonitor.com/blog/roubini/142759
We have eight years of Bush's aggressive "trickle down" economics to thank.
THANKS, MR. BUSH!

---

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=31392

Quote:

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Katrina-related accusations Part II
My temper is not what it used to be. I'm quite frankly fed up with Bush apologists who minimize at every turn Bush and his henchmen's (or is it Cheney and his henchmen's) perfectly deliberate and fully-aware complicity in the biggest disasters of their reign. Katrina is only one of these many disasters.

This is not "bureaucracy-as-usual" incompetence. The videotapes of Bush's disengaged- one might even say glazed- response to looming disaster, and his effing excuses ("No one could have predicted....") for failure, are remarkably similar to Secretary O'Neill's first-hand account of a President who appears swamped by anything that requires an actual decision.

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http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=18450

Have argued long and hard that Reagan's "trickle down" Laffer-curve-based policies were sheer "voodoo economics".

In general, I'm opposed to almost everything that Republicans stand for, and have been a registered Democrat my entire voting life.

****

I think the same could be said for KIKI. KIKI is a strong advocate for taking action on climate change ... definitely NOT a GOP position.

*****

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You guys see this? Do you see this? I expect apologies and six-packs from each one of ya. - Terry
Dante's Peak

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-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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I don't know SGG. Did Sig just tip her hand. Look how she responds to your post directed to KIKI. As though she is KIKI. Am I missing something here? Is Sig, kiki?- THUGR

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Hey Kiki, not to defend anyone or any such nonsense. I do have a question regarding your reply, and this goes for Signym as well.- SGG

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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What do I think about California's proposed policies on healthcare or anything? Why would I care? It's not my state of Texas. I don't care what CA does

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Wow, you grab complaints and headlines from all over the USA to support your endless ... and boy, do I mean ENDLESS ... bitching and griping about Republicans. no matter where they are, or how distant the issues from you, or even whether or not your complaints contradict each other or make the slightest sense... but when time comes to admitting that maybe some Dems are proposing a stupid policy, suddenly it's "NMP". (Not My Problem)

And you complain about the average American being a weather-vane and not remembering what happened a month ago? Jeez, you can't even remember what you posted an HOUR ago!

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

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Originally posted by second:

Quote:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Quote:

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What do I think about California's proposed policies on healthcare or anything? Why would I care? It's not my state of Texas. I don't care what CA does

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Wow, you grab complaints and headlines from all over the USA to support your endless ... and boy, do I mean ENDLESS ... bitching and griping about Republicans. no matter where they are, or how distant the issues from you, or even whether or not your complaints contradict each other or make the slightest sense... but when time comes to admitting that maybe some Dems are proposing a stupid policy, suddenly it's "NMP". (Not My Problem)

And you complain about the average American being a weather-vane and not remembering what happened a month ago? Jeez, you can't even remember what you posted an HOUR ago!

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

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Here is another one of those ordinary problems that could be solved, but won't, because Americans won't pay:

Voters in Maine were presented with a ballot measure that would have provided disabled adults or people over the age of 65 with full-time, long-term care in their own homes, at no cost to individuals or their families. It was hailed by supporters as a visionary model for ensuring support for vulnerable people, one that could be rolled out in other states as the US elder population grows.

Alas, it’s a vision whose time has not yet come. Voters in Maine soundly defeated Question 1 at the polls on Tuesday (Nov. 6).

The measure on the ballot would have imposed an additional tax of 3.8% on wages and income for people earning more than $128,400 a year. The tax, which would have been split between workers and employers, was expected to bring in $310 million per year from the 60,000 Maine households earning enough to qualify.

More at https://qz.com/work/1454794/

Signym & 1kiki, Americans being unwilling to pay, both Democrats and especially Republicans, will always be preventing problems from being solved. The Americans in the top 1% of wealth or income, whichever measure pleases you, have noticed this weakness in the lower 99% of Americans, from both political parties, and used it to keep the taxes low on the wealthy or the highly paid, again, whichever measure pleases you most.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Nobody can pay that shit. You should really stop judging other people who don't have the kind of money that you do.

People are going to have to just man up and take their parents in like they do almost everywhere else in the world.

Either that, or legalize euthanasia. I'm already trying to figure out how I can get that taken care of in Canada when my teeth situation goes south since I'm not paying more than I paid for my house to fix a serious medical condition that insurance won't pay for and I'm not going to live with my gums flapping in the wind and eating baby food either.

People need to stop living till 100 and bleeding everybody else dry. They paid a fraction into social security what people are paying now and they're living longer than ever before. Freakin' baby boomers are going to ruin it for everyone.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Originally posted by second:
6ix, you are seriously screwed up in the head and I am not kidding. But let us talk about something that is not inside your head.

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