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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Why can't they craft a message like this?

1) America has lost good manufacturing jobs. This is not only an economic burden but a security risk. I vow to bring jobs back, and to withdraw from any free trade agreement which takes away our sovereign rights and puts them in some faraway secret court.

2) At the same time, we have spent trillions of dollars and hundreds of thousands of lives fighting other people's fights overseas. No more. Since World War II, other nations have risen up to claim their share of the economy; it's time that they claim their share of their own protection and that we claim our peace dividend.

3) We have the resources and the people willing to make this nation great again. Black or white, woman or man, gay or straight, I promise a meritocracy: That you will rise as high as your talent and hard work will take you. A future of meaningful work, as we rebuild our roads and bridges, restore our environment, heal and teach ourselves; harden our cyber infrastructure; and become again not only that shining city on a hill, but a resilient and durable nation - one that will thrive for as long as we can imagine.

Together, we will be ever-vigilant and strong but no longer carrying our weapons of war abroad unless our vital interests are threatened. Instead, we will do what this great nation needs to do to truly rise up again: Heal, teach, build, restore, and dream, so that we can once again face our future with hope instead of fear, uncertainty, and doubt. We know what needs to be done, let's roll up our sleeves and get to work.

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

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Because those are just words? Duh? And any words coming out of Trump's or the GOP's - or any politician's - mouth would be lies 9 out of 10 times. Double duh. But... you know that.- CC

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So what's the point of posting this? Just to slam Dems and deflect from the Holy Evil that is the Republican party?? Of course - bored now.- CC

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

The point is that Dems CLAIM to be progressive and inclusive, but their message isn't. And it's not because it's so hard to do ... If I could craft a progressive and inclusive message off the top of my head, I'm sure one could be crafted by the Dems. It has nothing to do with blacks or whites or women or men or gays or straights, it's aimed at working Americans (or Americans who want to work) and it's really quite easy. So why don't they do it?

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

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Your "meritocracy" talk? The people like me with the most merit end up controlling everything.- SECOND

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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Really!? So you think this has been lacking in the Dems side of the street?

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Yes, otherwise I wouldn't have posted so.

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And that appealing to a broader base will win the day?

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Yes, I think the Dems craft their message as one of vengeance for the victimized, when the formerly downtrodden rise up, and step on the faces of who they THINK are their former oppressors. And, SHINY, if you doubt me, just look at the rest of your post ...

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Hmmmm, I tend to think that the RNC needs to address people other than a bunch of old white men

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prejudiced much?

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desperately trying to hang onto a quickly fading past .... Now these farts will know what the Native Americans felt like when the white man kick them in the ass. Karma is a BITCH (and her skin color is...)

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Oh yeah, THAT'LL bring Americans together!

SHINY, all you're doing is pitting people to fight over an ever-shrinking pie. Do you think it's "old white men" who made our economic pie shrink? Or, might it not be - GASP!- the oligarchy, which consists not only of old white men (Bill Clinton, GWB) but also old white women (Hillary), middle-aged black men (Obama), Jews, gays, young white men (Steve Jobs, who sent most of the Apple manufacturing jobs to China) and anyone else wealthy enough to have the power to make you poorer? If you're serious, you exemplify everything wrong with the Dems today.

*****
Why can't they craft a message like this?

America has lost good manufacturing jobs. This is not only an economic burden but a security risk. I vow to bring jobs back, and to withdraw from any free trade agreement which takes away our sovereign rights and puts them in some faraway secret court.

At the same time, we have spent trillions of dollars and hundreds of thousands of lives fighting other people's fights overseas. No more. Since World War II, other nations have risen up to claim their share of the economy; it's time that they claim their share of their own protection and that we claim our peace dividend.

We have the resources and the people willing to make this nation great again. Black or white, woman or man, gay or straight, I promise a meritocracy: That you will rise as high as your talent and hard work will take you. A future of meaningful work, as we rebuild our roads and bridges, restore our environment, heal and teach ourselves; harden our cyber infrastructure; and become again not only that shining city on a hill, but a resilient and durable nation - one that will thrive for as long as we can imagine.

Together, we will be ever-vigilant and strong but no longer carrying our weapons of war abroad unless our vital interests are threatened. Instead, we will do what this great nation needs to do to truly rise up again: Heal, teach, build, restore, and dream, so that we can once again face our future with hope instead of fear, uncertainty, and doubt. We know what needs to be done, let's roll up our sleeves and get to work.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Originally?

Er, me.

That was part of my point- it doesn't take a genius to come up with a unifying Democratic message for America. All you have to do is address our biggest problems and be fair, which is what I thought the Dems were all about..

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

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Originally?
Er, me.
That was part of my point- it doesn't take a genius to come up with a unifying Democratic message for America. All you have to do is address our biggest problems and be fair, which is what I thought the Dems were all about..

Signym, you don't have to craft a message for the Democrats because they already did it for you. The message looks nothing like the GOP message. What part of this message needs to be dropped in your arrogant opinion? https://democrats.org/about/party-platform

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Protecting ... Supporting ... Helping ... Protecting and Expanding ... Revitalizing ... Fostering ... Pursuing ... Supporting ... FIGHT FOR (my all-time favorite meaningless phrase, right up there with "FIGHT AGAINST") ... Fixing ... Promoting ... Promoting ... BRING AMERICANS TOGETHER (Now THAT'S chutzpah!) ... Reforming ... Guaranteeing ... Guaranteeing ... Guaranteeing ... Guaranteeing ...

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FIGHT [weasel word] ... AGAINST INEQUALITY

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Medicare for all
Negotiate better drug prices
Fully fund Medicare and Social Security

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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Your "meritocracy" talk? The people like me with the most merit end up controlling everything.- SECOND

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Only you would be so Republican as to equate merit with money.

You might have noticed that I would reward talented people who work hard, not greedy assholes (like you).

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Signym, you joke, yes? Since when did money stop being connected to "merit" in America?- SECOND

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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Signym, you joke, yes? Since when did money stop being connected to "merit" in America?- SECOND

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MOST PEOPLE, SECOND, don't connect money with merit. They work hard, pay their taxes, raise their families, and do the things they need to do because it's the right thing to do, not because it makes them a crap-ton of money.

Now, under the influence of greedy assholes - people who seek to create a system where they can comfortably bleed everyone else dry without sticking out like moral pariahs - they WILL foster greedy consumerist individualism (the point of all of our advertising!) and create a "gangster" culture for the peons. So there IS a culture war going on, but it's one promulgated by the oligarchs and bannered by dupes like GSTRING.

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

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You are making an argument that Americans are machines trapped in a system not designed by them. - SECOND

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
You might want to listen to this, SECOND. It reveals how morals and assumptions were shaped by advertising; how consent is manufactured.

Also, I couldn't help but notice how you slid right past my specific criticisms of the DNC platform. I guess it was just too much for you to handle.

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Once again, SECOND running away from my posts.

Since you're not responding to my posts, I guess I won't respond to yours. But look at the video, maybe you'll be less of a dumb-ass yourself.

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Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

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You have written hundreds of thousands of words. I have read them all ... SECOND

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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You have written hundreds of thousands of words. I have read them all ... SECOND

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Uh huh.

Just listen to the video. Educate yourself a little bit in something other than rentier capitalism.

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I also saw this excellent story today: “McConnell Blames Entitlements, Not GOP, for Rising Deficits”
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-16/mcconnell-blames-ent
itlements-not-gop-for-rising-deficits
The GOP is trying to poison, even murder, Social Security and Medicare, the two signature Democratic Party programs, while at the same time the GOP insists it is doing no such thing. An American who believes McConnell about entitlements is an American who is a half-wit, easily manipulated by McConnell.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Social Security, and Mediare, like the ACA, ultimately depend on the health of the American economy to generate taxes for the government so that these programs can continue because ultimately, as they say, you can't wring blood out of a stone.

We need to grow the REAL economy - the economy of jobs, production, and consumption - if we want to balance our budget. That being said, I do NOT believe that tax cuts for business are the magic elixir for the economy; in fact quite the opposite and I've argued that often. OTOH, tax increases only go so far if the revenues of the businesses that you're taxing go down. I have ideas on how to grow the economy, and it involves SOME of what Trump is doing; and I think tariffs are an important part of re-growing our industrial base because if you raise wages without increasing production, those higher wages will simply go to China to buy Chinese goods. But that's a whole 'nother discussion which I won't get into because very time I've tried to explain it, you've ignored what I posted in favor of arguing with the voices in your head. Again..

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I was none too happy with Clarence Thomas either, and as it turned out he wound up being probably the worst Justice, a "Scalia me too" vote, who apparently never thought for himself but took Scalia's word for everything and hardly ever writes original opinions.

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Are your comments regarding Justice Thomas your own, original? Or merely believed and copied from your linky?

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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Are your comments regarding Justice Thomas your own, original? Or merely believed and copied from your linky?- JSF

Oh, I remember reading that criticism of Thomas many many years ago ... a history of his votes and how closely they mirrored Scalia's, along with an analysis of his written opinions. In fact, at the time of that analysis, I believe he had written ZERO opinions; altho I could be wrong. Over the years, whenever a SC ruling came down, I never found any reason to change that opinion of Thomas. You never hear his opinions quoted, for example. - SIGNY

Not sure how you could be more wrong.
Whenever I heard respected, successful, intelligent Law Professionals discussing Justice Thomas, it is always reflecting that he has the Greatest Opinions of the History of SCOTUS, the most stable and reasoned. I am sure you have found a lesser Standard to inform your bias. Pity.

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Actually, I mis-remembered the statistic: Clarence Thomas (almost) never asks questions from the bench

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Justice Clarence Thomas asks questions in court, 1st time in 10 years (2106)

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I don't know about his written opinions. Maybe if you can post a link to a decent discussion of them it would help.

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Actually, I mis-remembered the statistic: Clarence Thomas (almost) never asks questions from the bench

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
JSF, why do you keep posting this over and over? I already admitted that I mis-remembered the statistic

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Actually, I mis-remembered the statistic: Clarence Thomas (almost) never asks questions from the bench

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and I even asked you for a link to a discussion of Thomas' opinions.

So, what's your point?

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
And the military budget?

What about that?

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And the military budget? What about that?- SIGNY

Signym, did you not notice that Trump ...

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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And the military budget? What about that?- SIGNY

Signym, did you not notice that Trump ...

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I was posting about the DEMS position. Are you saying that just because Trump has a bad policy on something, the Dems should be as bad?

I'm looking for an IMPROVEMENT over Trump, one that addresses "free" trade, illegal immigration, the Federal deficit, and the economy in ways that don't appeal to identity politics. If you insist that the Dems can be excused by anything that Trump does, you're setting the bar pretty low, aren't you?

But more than likely, you're just avoiding answering that question. It's like a third rail for Dems .... having spent so much political capital on convincing their base of RUSSIA!!RUSSIA!!RUSSIA!!! they can hardly back down and ask for military budget reductions, can they?

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Take Bill Clinton’s line at the 2012 Democratic Convention: “Since 1961, for 52 years now, the Republicans have held the White House 28 years, the Democrats 24…. In those 52 years, our private economy has produced 66 million private-sector jobs. So what's the jobs score? Republicans 24 million, Democrats 42 [million].”

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Another Princeton economist, the noted liberal Nobel laureate Paul Krugman, wrote in his New York Times column that Blinder and Watson looked at various explanations and “found all of them wanting. There’s no indication that the Democratic advantage can be explained by better monetary and fiscal policies. Democrats seem, on average, to have had better luck than Republicans on oil prices and technological progress.”

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Signy and Kiki are not Russian.
It would be nice if people here stopped calling them Russians.
Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Because no Democrat is gonna change the party platform in order to get a vague promise from Signym or 1kiki to vote for Democrats. - SECONDRATE

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8% of Dems voted for Trump

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446% of independents voted for Trump as opposed to 42% for Hillary

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Oh BTW, SECOND, I don't accept your point that "the economy" does better under Dems than under Republicans. You gave two links ...

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Of course you don't, you lying sack of shit. It is a typical GOP maneuver to make misleading arguments and phony claims - SECONDRATE

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Signy and Kiki are not Russian.
It would be nice if people here stopped calling them Russians.
Do Right, Be Right. :)

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That's what people do when they have COMPLETELY run out of relevant thing to post: They resort to defamation. They remind me of the scene in Tremors 2 when Burt Gummer wobbles out of his vehicle, covered in gore, and says I've completely run out of ammo! Well, they have no mental ammo so they lie.

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Because no Democrat is gonna change the party platform in order to get a vague promise from Signym or 1kiki to vote for Democrats. - SECONDRATE

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It's not just us, SECONDRATE, it's people LIKE us.

There is a significant swath of Democrats who voted for Trump in 2016

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8% of Dems voted for Trump

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https://ropercenter.cornell.edu/polls/us-elections/how-groups-voted/gr
oups-voted-2016/

Another huge swath of people with no party affiliation

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446% of independents voted for Trump as opposed to 42% for Hillary

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SAME SITE

And another huge swath of formerly non-voters.

But HEY! KEEP ON dissing those who didn't vote for Hillary in 2016! That'll be SURE to win elections!



If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

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But HEY! KEEP ON dissing those who didn't vote for Hillary in 2016! That'll be SURE to win elections!
- SIGNY

1) I'm voting for the Democrats, but if the GOP wins then I am going to win a dump truck full of money in the form of reduced taxes and government regulations. And if the GOP crashes the stock market, as its mishandling of the financial industry caused in 2008

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I will make an 18-wheeler full of money from all the cheap stocks that I shall buy from panicky sellers. Signym, you repeat in your signature: "The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." If Republican voters want to be fools then I will take their money away from them without feeling bad that they make foolish decisions. And I won't give the money back to GOP voters if and when Democrats momentarily win an election.- SECONDRATE

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2) Signym, did you ever see the TV show The Americans?

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It's about Russian spies passing themselves off as Americans. From the weird bent of Signym's and 1kiki's minds, you two could be those "Americans".

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Originally posted by second:
May I suggest you start a third party that matches all your criteria? Because no Democrat is gonna change the party platform in order to get a vague promise from Signym or 1kiki to vote for Democrats. It would be crazy because you are a Russian. Alternatively, it would be crazy because you would renege on your weak promise to vote Democrat. Remember, in the eyes of many Democrats here at fff.net, Signym is a lying sack of shit. As is 1kiki.

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Originally posted by JO753:
I think you are crediting the majority uv voterz with too much attention.

Like most subjects, peepl dont spend alot uv time delving into detailz. They just assume its wut theyv herd befor and move on to more important biz, like getting their nacho dip ready for the big game party. So 'Democrat' bekumz the folder in their brain they toss all thingz that seem to fit, same for 'Republican'.

Wich also haz the label 'good' or 'bad' dependz on the voter.

So the idea that they are going to dig up and read every bit of pozition statements on the issuez and then deside wether they will vote for candidate a or b or c iznt realistic.

Go to most campane websites and you will find broad brushstrokes uv bland vague unformation intended to not offend az wide a variety uv voterz az possible.

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I think you are crediting the majority uv voterz with too much attention.

Like most subjects, peepl dont spend alot uv time delving into detailz. They just assume its wut theyv herd befor and move on to more important biz, like getting their nacho dip ready for the big game party. So 'Democrat' bekumz the folder in their brain they toss all thingz that seem to fit, same for 'Republican'.

Wich also haz the label 'good' or 'bad' dependz on the voter.

So the idea that they are going to dig up and read every bit of pozition statements on the issuez and then deside wether they will vote for candidate a or b or c iznt realistic.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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I think you are crediting the majority uv voterz with too much attention.

Like most subjects, peepl dont spend alot uv time delving into detailz. They just assume its wut theyv herd befor and move on to more important biz, like getting their nacho dip ready for the big game party. So 'Democrat' bekumz the folder in their brain they toss all thingz that seem to fit, same for 'Republican'.

Wich also haz the label 'good' or 'bad' dependz on the voter.

So the idea that they are going to dig up and read every bit of pozition statements on the issuez and then deside wether they will vote for candidate a or b or c iznt realistic.

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I agree. But voters DO vote on broad brush strokes, which is why there were so many crossover voters from Trump.

Which makes it all the more puzzling as to why the Democrat Party can't even paint those broad brush strokes:

Medicare for all (negotiate better prescription prices)
Peace
Good jobs
Environmental restoration
End illegal immigration

The Dems avoid the top three, which I think would be tremendously appealing cross-boundary vote-getters, like they were the plague. Why?

Again, I think I know why, but the fact that they can't.quite.seem.to.get.there. should be a giant red flag about who controls the party's real agenda.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:they can't.quite.seem.to.get.there.

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Originally posted by JO753:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:they can't.quite.seem.to.get.there.

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That remainz to be seen. 18 dayz left till we find out if America will bekum a subsidiary uv Russia.

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.7532020.com

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Not sure if this got buried.

Why is it that Democrats and other Socialist/Communists/Liberals are outraged that a woman be allowed in the Senate Chamber? A Professional, a proven competent Prosecutor, not unless she is a Token, like Democrats view women and minorities? I did not see it, but heard excellent clips and summaries - was she too attractive for Democrats to be placated? Were all the fugly Democrap Senators jealous of her?

Why is it that Democrats hate women, while Conservatives openly and repeatedly give women a chance, support women, encourage women, give them a tough and demanding stage to display their talents and skills?

Well, of course, we already knew Democrats hate women. That's why they keep releasing Serial Rapists and pedophiles ASAP at every opportunity.
Plus supporting BJ Clinton for raping women in the White House.

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Not much good at that reading thing, are we? That is called Illiteracy.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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Really!? So you think this has been lacking in the Dems side of the street?

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Yes, otherwise I wouldn't have posted so.

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And that appealing to a broader base will win the day?

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Yes, I think the Dems craft their message as one of vengeance for the victimized, when the formerly downtrodden rise up, and step on the faces of who they THINK are their former oppressors. And, SHINY, if you doubt me, just look at the rest of your post ...

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Hmmmm, I tend to think that the RNC needs to address people other than a bunch of old white men

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prejudiced much?

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desperately trying to hang onto a quickly fading past .... Now these farts will know what the Native Americans felt like when the white man kick them in the ass. Karma is a BITCH (and her skin color is...)

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Oh yeah, THAT'LL bring Americans together!

SHINY, all you're doing is pitting people to fight over an ever-shrinking pie. Do you think it's "old white men" who made our economic pie shrink? Or, might it not be - GASP!- the oligarchy, which consists not only of old white men (Bill Clinton, GWB) but also old white women (Hillary), middle-aged black men (Obama), Jews, gays, young white men (Steve Jobs, who sent most of the Apple manufacturing jobs to China) and anyone else wealthy enough to have the power to make you poorer? If you're serious, you exemplify everything wrong with the Dems today.

*****
Why can't they craft a message like this?

America has lost good manufacturing jobs. This is not only an economic burden but a security risk. I vow to bring jobs back, and to withdraw from any free trade agreement which takes away our sovereign rights and puts them in some faraway secret court.

At the same time, we have spent trillions of dollars and hundreds of thousands of lives fighting other people's fights overseas. No more. Since World War II, other nations have risen up to claim their share of the economy; it's time that they claim their share of their own protection and that we claim our peace dividend.

We have the resources and the people willing to make this nation great again. Black or white, woman or man, gay or straight, I promise a meritocracy: That you will rise as high as your talent and hard work will take you. A future of meaningful work, as we rebuild our roads and bridges, restore our environment, heal and teach ourselves; harden our cyber infrastructure; and become again not only that shining city on a hill, but a resilient and durable nation - one that will thrive for as long as we can imagine.

Together, we will be ever-vigilant and strong but no longer carrying our weapons of war abroad unless our vital interests are threatened. Instead, we will do what this great nation needs to do to truly rise up again: Heal, teach, build, restore, and dream, so that we can once again face our future with hope instead of fear, uncertainty, and doubt. We know what needs to be done, let's roll up our sleeves and get to work.



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Hmmmm, I tend to think that the RNC needs to address people other than a bunch of old white men desperately trying to hang onto a quickly fading past .... Now these farts will know what the Native Americans felt like when the white man kick them in the ass. Karma is a BITCH (and her skin color is...)

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NBC News Sat On Information That Would Have Discredited Kavanaugh Accusers

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