Quote:

---

Originally posted by captaincrunch:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/07/12/tariffs-senato
rs-say-trade-policies-hurting-farmers-businesses/776771002/
Senators blast Trump's 'reckless' tariffs, warn of impact on farmers, businesses

WASHINGTON – Republican and Democratic senators expressed rising concern Thursday about the economic impact of President Donald Trump's tariffs, saying they are hearing complaints from dock workers, soybean farmers and manufacturers whose livelihoods depend on trade.

The lawmakers also said they want to see the Trump administration explain the strategy behind the tariffs and what the expectations are for success.

“To my knowledge, not a single person is able to articulate where this is headed, nor what the plans are, nor what the strategy is,” said Sen. Bob Corker, R-Tenn., chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. “It seems to be a wake up, ready, fire, aim strategy.”

Sen. Robert Menendez, D-N.J., blasted the tariffs as “a reckless campaign” against U.S. allies and warned that it would drive them “into the arms of our adversaries.”

Even Fux Newz Knows
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2018/07/24/trumps-trade-war-is-economic
-suicide.html

Trump's trade war is economic suicide

When President Trump imposed a 25 percent tariff on steel imports last month, America's largest nail manufacturer had little choice but to raise its prices. Mid Continent Nail Corporation quickly lost 50 percent of its orders as customers opted for cheaper suppliers. Within weeks, the firm had to lay off 60 workers. Up to 200 more might lose their jobs by the end of this month.

If the tariff isn't lifted, the company could fold by September.

Mid Continent and its employees are early victims in Trump's trade war. There will be many more if the president continues to raise import costs and anger our trading partners.

https://qz.com/1336295/carmakers-are-counting-the-cost-of-trumps-great
est-tariffs-to-the-tune-of-10-billion/
Carmakers are counting the cost of Trump’s “greatest” tariffs—in billions of dollars

Donald Trump’s “America First” policies on trade have spooked investors in some of America’s most prominent manufacturers: the “Big Three” carmakers of GM, Ford, and Chrysler.

GM, the US’s largest carmaker, said today that higher commodity costs (primarily steel and aluminum) would cut deeply into its margins, and so the company lowered its earnings outlook for the rest of the year. Earlier this year, Trump imposed tariffs on imports of steel and aluminum from China, the European Union, Mexico, and Canada to protect the US steel industry from competition on “national security” grounds. Companies that rely on these metals—imported or not—are feeling the pain. For example, GM gets most of its metal from domestic producers, but US steel prices have risen amid the tariffs.

*************************************************

Opinion in plain English:

First, he started a trade war.

He had no idea what he was doing, but he started a trade war anyway, all while declaring that it wasn't a trade war.

Guess what? It's a trade war.

1/ 
@realDonaldTrump
"China is targeting our farmers, who they know I love & respect, as a way of getting me to continue allowing them to take advantage of the U.S. They are being vicious in what will be their failed attempt. We were being nice - until now! China made $517 Billion on us last year."

?And given where things are made nowadays, the ONLY country that CAN'T win a trade war is the United States.
It's not the 1950s, folks. We don't make stuff, we buy stuff.
And American business has no one to blame but themselves.

2/
They've been sending manufacturing overseas for 40 years.
They didn't want to pay American workers a living wage. They didn't want to give benefits to American workers. They didn't want to pay American taxes. They didn't want to do their duty to the American Republic.

3/
They didn't want to make things in the United States, but they sure loved calling themselves Americans, benefiting from all the things America provides, and trading on America's name.

4/
This is result. Right here.
When you don't make anything, you got nothing to win a trade war WITH.

5/
What's that?
We make money?
Yeah. About that. For a while our wealth could prop up this imbalance. But here's the problem, all that money, decades worth, OUR money, spun up the economies in the rest of the world.

6/
An so, manufacturing economies like China are NO LONGER dependent on our money -- and when we drive them away from the US, they easily shift elsewhere, and then THEIR brands become household names in those economies and not ours.

7/
Hell, we don't even make ideas anymore. We outsourced that too.
We hired people overseas to come up with new ideas, to flesh out the concepts, to write the code, to do the tech support.
It didn't happen all at once, but little by little, we empowered those nations.

8/
And within a few decades, we become a backwater, left behind.
This has happened before, you know. There are plenty of historical examples.
We now find ourselves at the mercy of the very Third World countries we hold in contempt.

9/?The really ironic part? Conservatives are terrified of "communism," where government controls the means of production, meanwhile, the result of 4 decades of offshoring in the pursuit of ever higher profits has effectively moved production completely outside of US control.

10/?It's a trade war. And we're losing. Because we've got nothing to trade that our adversaries can't get elsewhere for less or make for themselves.
We did that.

11/
Trump is a product of the very modern business mindset that created this situation, that values profit above all and ONLY profit.
So long as he gets rich, so long as the rich get richer, the rest of the country can burn.
It's not like they've made a secret of this.

12/?Trump's bluster and clumsy ill-conceived trade war blew up in his face, so he then blamed Americans like Harley-Davidson for not toughing out HIS blunder. He literally expected that others would bear the cost, to the tune of billions, for his mistakes.

Why wouldn't he?

13/?If you've been paying attention, this should be no surprise.
This IS the mindset of American business. Pollute the rivers, somebody else will clean it up. Poison the population, somebody else will clean it up.

14/?Destroy the economy via bad investments, junk bonds, mortgage scams, Ponzi schemes? Somebody else will clean it up.
And that somebody else is ALWAYS you and me.

And that's EXACTLY what Trump expects here.

15/?You lose your job, your home, your retirement, your savings, your healthcare, that's the price you pay so Ivanka Trump can make her shitty handbags for cheap. You lost your life savings because you got scammed by Trump University? Caveat Emptor, sucker.

16/?Then he blamed everybody else.
Because that too is the modern American businessman, never, ever, ever, take responsibility for your own mistakes. Somebody else will clean it up.
So, NOW, Trump's taking $12 BILLION of YOUR money to bribe his victims.

17/?He's going to pay off American farmers with YOUR money for his mistake just like he paid off those porn stars.
Trump is running America EXACTLY as he said he would.
Yes he is.
That's the ONE thing he told the truth about.

18/?He's running America exactly as he runs his business. He never has to pay for his mistakes.
HE profits. YOU get screwed.
He makes the mess, you get to clean it up.

19/?And I don't know why this would be a surprise to anybody.
I warned you son of bitches. I did. A lot of us warned you this would happen.
If you elect a businessman, you are going to get the business. And you're gonna get it good and hard.

Every. Single. Time.

---

Quote:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by captaincrunch:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/07/12/tariffs-senato
rs-say-trade-policies-hurting-farmers-businesses/776771002/
Senators blast Trump's 'reckless' tariffs, warn of impact on farmers, businesses

WASHINGTON – Republican and Democratic senators expressed rising concern Thursday about the economic impact of President Donald Trump's tariffs, saying they are hearing complaints from dock workers, soybean farmers and manufacturers whose livelihoods depend on trade.

The lawmakers also said they want to see the Trump administration explain the strategy behind the tariffs and what the expectations are for success.

“To my knowledge, not a single person is able to articulate where this is headed, nor what the plans are, nor what the strategy is,” said Sen. Bob Corker, R-Tenn., chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. “It seems to be a wake up, ready, fire, aim strategy.”

Sen. Robert Menendez, D-N.J., blasted the tariffs as “a reckless campaign” against U.S. allies and warned that it would drive them “into the arms of our adversaries.”

Even Fux Newz Knows
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2018/07/24/trumps-trade-war-is-economic
-suicide.html

Trump's trade war is economic suicide

When President Trump imposed a 25 percent tariff on steel imports last month, America's largest nail manufacturer had little choice but to raise its prices. Mid Continent Nail Corporation quickly lost 50 percent of its orders as customers opted for cheaper suppliers. Within weeks, the firm had to lay off 60 workers. Up to 200 more might lose their jobs by the end of this month.

If the tariff isn't lifted, the company could fold by September.

Mid Continent and its employees are early victims in Trump's trade war. There will be many more if the president continues to raise import costs and anger our trading partners.

https://qz.com/1336295/carmakers-are-counting-the-cost-of-trumps-great
est-tariffs-to-the-tune-of-10-billion/
Carmakers are counting the cost of Trump’s “greatest” tariffs—in billions of dollars

Donald Trump’s “America First” policies on trade have spooked investors in some of America’s most prominent manufacturers: the “Big Three” carmakers of GM, Ford, and Chrysler.

GM, the US’s largest carmaker, said today that higher commodity costs (primarily steel and aluminum) would cut deeply into its margins, and so the company lowered its earnings outlook for the rest of the year. Earlier this year, Trump imposed tariffs on imports of steel and aluminum from China, the European Union, Mexico, and Canada to protect the US steel industry from competition on “national security” grounds. Companies that rely on these metals—imported or not—are feeling the pain. For example, GM gets most of its metal from domestic producers, but US steel prices have risen amid the tariffs.

*************************************************

Opinion in plain English:

First, he started a trade war.

He had no idea what he was doing, but he started a trade war anyway, all while declaring that it wasn't a trade war.

Guess what? It's a trade war.

1/ 
@realDonaldTrump
"China is targeting our farmers, who they know I love & respect, as a way of getting me to continue allowing them to take advantage of the U.S. They are being vicious in what will be their failed attempt. We were being nice - until now! China made $517 Billion on us last year."

?And given where things are made nowadays, the ONLY country that CAN'T win a trade war is the United States.
It's not the 1950s, folks. We don't make stuff, we buy stuff.
And American business has no one to blame but themselves.

2/
They've been sending manufacturing overseas for 40 years.
They didn't want to pay American workers a living wage. They didn't want to give benefits to American workers. They didn't want to pay American taxes. They didn't want to do their duty to the American Republic.

3/
They didn't want to make things in the United States, but they sure loved calling themselves Americans, benefiting from all the things America provides, and trading on America's name.

4/
This is result. Right here.
When you don't make anything, you got nothing to win a trade war WITH.

5/
What's that?
We make money?
Yeah. About that. For a while our wealth could prop up this imbalance. But here's the problem, all that money, decades worth, OUR money, spun up the economies in the rest of the world.

6/
An so, manufacturing economies like China are NO LONGER dependent on our money -- and when we drive them away from the US, they easily shift elsewhere, and then THEIR brands become household names in those economies and not ours.

7/
Hell, we don't even make ideas anymore. We outsourced that too.
We hired people overseas to come up with new ideas, to flesh out the concepts, to write the code, to do the tech support.
It didn't happen all at once, but little by little, we empowered those nations.

8/
And within a few decades, we become a backwater, left behind.
This has happened before, you know. There are plenty of historical examples.
We now find ourselves at the mercy of the very Third World countries we hold in contempt.

9/?The really ironic part? Conservatives are terrified of "communism," where government controls the means of production, meanwhile, the result of 4 decades of offshoring in the pursuit of ever higher profits has effectively moved production completely outside of US control.

10/?It's a trade war. And we're losing. Because we've got nothing to trade that our adversaries can't get elsewhere for less or make for themselves.
We did that.

11/
Trump is a product of the very modern business mindset that created this situation, that values profit above all and ONLY profit.
So long as he gets rich, so long as the rich get richer, the rest of the country can burn.
It's not like they've made a secret of this.

12/?Trump's bluster and clumsy ill-conceived trade war blew up in his face, so he then blamed Americans like Harley-Davidson for not toughing out HIS blunder. He literally expected that others would bear the cost, to the tune of billions, for his mistakes.

Why wouldn't he?

13/?If you've been paying attention, this should be no surprise.
This IS the mindset of American business. Pollute the rivers, somebody else will clean it up. Poison the population, somebody else will clean it up.

14/?Destroy the economy via bad investments, junk bonds, mortgage scams, Ponzi schemes? Somebody else will clean it up.
And that somebody else is ALWAYS you and me.

And that's EXACTLY what Trump expects here.

15/?You lose your job, your home, your retirement, your savings, your healthcare, that's the price you pay so Ivanka Trump can make her shitty handbags for cheap. You lost your life savings because you got scammed by Trump University? Caveat Emptor, sucker.

16/?Then he blamed everybody else.
Because that too is the modern American businessman, never, ever, ever, take responsibility for your own mistakes. Somebody else will clean it up.
So, NOW, Trump's taking $12 BILLION of YOUR money to bribe his victims.

17/?He's going to pay off American farmers with YOUR money for his mistake just like he paid off those porn stars.
Trump is running America EXACTLY as he said he would.
Yes he is.
That's the ONE thing he told the truth about.

18/?He's running America exactly as he runs his business. He never has to pay for his mistakes.
HE profits. YOU get screwed.
He makes the mess, you get to clean it up.

19/?And I don't know why this would be a surprise to anybody.
I warned you son of bitches. I did. A lot of us warned you this would happen.
If you elect a businessman, you are going to get the business. And you're gonna get it good and hard.

Every. Single. Time.

---

How timely.

Posting a 2 week old Fake News Story. Today. The day Trump wins the Tariff/Trade war as EU capitulates to his calls for fairness and balance.

Trolls are really funny sometimes.

And the Fake Story says "Senators" and only cites Uranium One usher Corker and pants-on-fire idjit Menendez. Lol.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
And for a 2nd day in a row, Trolls double down on stupid while the Stock Market climbs. Even with SIG's helping to explain, their FACTS Vaccine protects them from letting knowledge and information infiltrate.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by reaverfan:

Quote:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
And for a 2nd day in a row, Trolls double down on stupid while the Stock Market climbs. Even with SIG's helping to explain, their FACTS Vaccine protects them from letting knowledge and information infiltrate.

---

Seems he's stealing a page from Bush. How did that turn out?

Budget office projects growing deficits and massive debt during Trump administration
http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-trump-deficits-20180409-stor
y.html

The CBO also confirmed earlier estimates that despite Republican promises that the tax cuts would pay for themselves through economic growth, the plan would actually increase the deficit about $1.9 trillion over 11 years.

Democrats said the report rebuked Republicans' claims to be fiscal conservatives.

"In their craven haste to give corporations and the wealthiest 1% massive tax breaks, Republicans saddled our children and grandchildren with trillions of dollars of debt," House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-San Francisco) said in a statement.

More of the same from the tinkle-down crew.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
You should try reading some news sometime, instead of 3-month old outdated gibberish, which every reasonable person knew it was when it was propagated.
A few weeks later, the CBO announced that they were off by $2.95 Trillion, and the Trump Tax Reform would actually reduce the debt by $1.45 Trillion, after several years of first paying back the $1.5 Trillion.

Try keeping up with the adults, m'kay?

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Quote:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
A few weeks later, the CBO announced that they were off by $2.95 Trillion, and the Trump Tax Reform would actually reduce the debt by $1.45 Trillion, after several years of first paying back the $1.5 Trillion.

---

Quote:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I don't think that cutting taxes in THIS situation will reduce the deficit. The taxes have to be SO high that they are strangling economic growth, and in THIS case what's strangling economic growth is not taxes it's "free trade", internal corruption and wealth inequality. So, I do NOT agree with Trump's tax cut, unless there's something about "repatriation of capital" that I don't understand. When I have more time I'll research it.

Also, the stock market is NOT the economy! The stock market is up because THE FED has held interest rates at near-zero for almost ten years now, and large businesses which issue stock have been busy borrowing money at near-zero interest rates to engage in "stock buybacks" which reduce the number of outstanding shares, artificially increasing the price per share (PE ratio).

A stock market crash CAN bonk the economy (It has done so in the past) due to capital flow (money velocity) grinding to a halt. But the REAL economy consists of production of goods and provision of services; not stock, real estate, or commodity prices or derivatives and hedge funds.

So I wouldn't be crowing about stock prices, if I were a Trump supporter, because (1) it's irrelevant to the real economy and (2) it's not under control of the WH, but under control of The Fed. A rise in interest rates will crash a lot of debt-based speculation, including hedge funds, stocks, and real estate.


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Quote:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I don't think that cutting taxes in THIS situation will reduce the deficit.

---

Quote:

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So, I do NOT agree with Trump's tax cut, unless there's something about "repatriation of capital" that I don't understand. When I have more time I'll research it.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by whozit:

GDP is at 4.1%...shut up

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Quote:

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I don't think that cutting taxes in THIS situation will reduce the deficit. - SIGNY

You can argue with CBO about that. Lettuce know how well that works for ya. - JSF

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Quote:

---

You should try reading some news sometime, instead of 3-month old outdated gibberish, which every reasonable person knew it was when it was propagated.
A few weeks later, the CBO announced that they were off by $2.95 Trillion, and the Trump Tax Reform would actually reduce the debt by $1.45 Trillion, after several years of first paying back the $1.5 Trillion.

---

Quote:

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To be technically accurate, I don't believe any reasonable projection has indicated the Obamanomics bloat will be halted soon enough to actually reduce the Debt in that timeframe, but the CBO was comparing the projections from before the Tax Reform, and then comparing again a few weeks later.

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Quote:

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So, I do NOT agree with Trump's tax cut, unless there's something about "repatriation of capital" that I don't understand. When I have more time I'll research it.- SIGNY

Why don't you like Repatriation of Capital?- JSF

---

Quote:

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Originally posted by THG:

Quote:

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Originally posted by whozit:

GDP is at 4.1%...shut up

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T

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Quote:

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A lying president is the norm in America.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Quote:

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I don't think that cutting taxes in THIS situation will reduce the deficit. - SIGNY

You can argue with CBO about that. Lettuce know how well that works for ya. - JSF

---

JSF, you posted ...

Quote:

---

You should try reading some news sometime, instead of 3-month old outdated gibberish, which every reasonable person knew it was when it was propagated.
A few weeks later, the CBO announced that they were off by $2.95 Trillion, and the Trump Tax Reform would actually reduce the debt by $1.45 Trillion, after several years of first paying back the $1.5 Trillion.

---

I went to the CBO website and there was NOTHING there like this. So if you have information that none of us have ... LINKS, PLEASE?

Quote:

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To be technically accurate, I don't believe any reasonable projection has indicated the Obamanomics bloat will be halted soon enough to actually reduce the Debt in that timeframe, but the CBO was comparing the projections from before the Tax Reform, and then comparing again a few weeks later.

---

As I requested: LINKS, PLEASE?

Quote:

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So, I do NOT agree with Trump's tax cut, unless there's something about "repatriation of capital" that I don't understand. When I have more time I'll research it.- SIGNY

Why don't you like Repatriation of Capital?- JSF

---

It's not that I don't like it, it's that I don't know exactly what it is or how its supposed to work. Here are two threads of thought that I have on the topic ....

1) It's possible to reduce imports into the USA by charging tariffs, and if the tariffs are high enough you can essentially block certain imports. BUT, just because there is a deficit of (say) automobiles in the USA and (because of reduced supply and steady demand) the price goes up from $25,000 to $50,000, altho that represents an investment opportunity, that doesn't necessarily mean that any company will actually step in and invest. Perhaps the total investment is too high, or interest rates are too high, so altho the "environment" might be good, actual investment might not happen.

2) At the same time, if taxes allow profit to remain in the USA, PERHAPS that money would be used for investment.

So possibly between a "push" (availability of money) and a "pull" (demand for product) the right investment would happen to re-industrialize America, but it seems a bit indirect/ uncertain.

---

Quote:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Quote:

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So, I do NOT agree with Trump's tax cut, unless there's something about "repatriation of capital" that I don't understand. When I have more time I'll research it.- SIGNY

Why don't you like Repatriation of Capital?- JSF

---

It's not that I don't like it, it's that I don't know exactly what it is or how its supposed to work. Here are two threads of thought that I have on the topic ....

1) It's possible to reduce imports into the USA by charging tariffs, and if the tariffs are high enough you can essentially block certain imports. BUT, just because there is a deficit of (say) automobiles in the USA and (because of reduced supply and steady demand) the price goes up from $25,000 to $50,000, altho that represents an investment opportunity, that doesn't necessarily mean that any company will actually step in and invest. Perhaps the total investment is too high, or interest rates are too high, so altho the "environment" might be good, actual investment might not happen.

2) At the same time, if taxes allow profit to remain in the USA, PERHAPS that money would be used for investment.

So possibly between a "push" (availability of money) and a "pull" (demand for product) the right investment would happen to re-industrialize America, but it seems a bit indirect/ uncertain.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

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We’re still waiting for both the investment surge and the wage gains the tax cutters promised- SECOND

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as far as we can tell, they’re never coming. - SECOND

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Quote:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

*I did go into my reasons at the time; I'll be happy to repeat the train of thought later when I have more time.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

BEFORE TRUMP WAS EVEN ELECTED I opined that he would NOT be able to reverse America's economic fortunes, not even in two terms.
"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

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Trump can reverse America’s fortune. He can make it worse: the junk loans that tanked the economy in 2008? They are back!

“We have now re-created the condition that led to the last crisis by making it easier to aggregate loans that are not good for investors.” - SECONDHAND

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Quote:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Quote:

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Trump can reverse America’s fortune. He can make it worse: the junk loans that tanked the economy in 2008? They are back!

“We have now re-created the condition that led to the last crisis by making it easier to aggregate loans that are not good for investors.” - SECONDHAND

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Speaking of being a know-it-all about things that you know thing about ...

"Junk loans" have been with us for over five years. The conditions weren't "suddenly" created in the past year, they were re-created under OBAMA's reign. The student loan crisis. The auto loan disaster. The real estate loan crisis-to-be. The stock plunge and the hedge fund crisis ... people have been warning about these for (literally) years. Where have you been living lately? Certainly not in the USA!

To be fair, this is because of The Fed keeping interest rates at near-zero for years and years, which encouraged speculative bubbles and improvident borrowing. Sarbanes-Oxley encouraged the avoidance of traditional lending and promoted SHADOW BANKS. (BTW: NOT TRUMP'S FAULT). Blaming Trump for the upcoming disaster (which people including myself have been predicting for a while) is like blaming Obama for the Great Recession. This upcoming crisis? Not Obama's fault (directly, altho he CAN be blamed for the Fed Char appointment) and not Trump's either; look to The Fed and its monetary policy.

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"There's No Way To Make This Work" Martenson Warns "A Big Reset Is Locked In"

Futurist and economic researcher Chris Martenson says we are not at the end of a business cycle but “. . . at the end of a credit cycle.”

Martenson warns,

“Here’s why people need to be concerned. Credit cycles, when they blow up, are really, really destructive..."

"2008 to 2009 was very destructive. Instead of realizing the error of their ways, they went for a third. This is the most comprehensive credit cycle that we have seen. Remember, bubbles have two things that they need. Number one, a good story that people can believe in and, of course, it’s a false story. Number two, ample credit. That’s what the Fed and central banks of Japan and Europe have done. They just flooded the world with credit. Now, we have bubbles everywhere. When these burst, it will be the worst bursting in anybody’s lifetime because we have never seen anything like this.”

Martenson says a debt reset is locked in, and somebody is going to pay.

“When you have as much debt that the United States has... the overall debt level in the United States, including auto loans, mortgages, consumer debt, student loans and corporate debt and whatever, we’re sitting at about $60 trillion right now. It’s a huge number, and when you get to this level of indebtedness, plus those unfunded or underfunded liabilities

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... when you get to this level of indebtedness, there is really only one question left to be resolved, and that is who is going to eat the losses. That’s it.

So, when you start asking that question, the banks and people writing the laws are pretty sure they are not going to take the losses. The person relying on the pension is the person that is going to eat the losses. . . . There is no way to make this work. Here’s where the social tension comes in. Even as ordinary middle class people are being destroyed in this process, the rich are taking more and more out of the system. That is courtesy of the policies of the Federal Reserve...

But the big risk is when these printing sprees, these credit cycles finally burst. They are wildly destructive. They are fast. They are hard. They are sharp and they hurt.”

Martenson says people can protect themselves with real assets as opposed to paper assets. Martenson says,

“Real assets are the place you need to be if and when a paper tower comes crumbling down. I am diversified myself. I believe in land. I believe in real estate. I believe in gold. I believe in silver. I believe in other metals. I believe in these hard assets because this is where we are going to have to hide out because if you held hard assets in Turkey, in Venezuela, in Argentina and in places where the currency collapsed and declined, these would have been great places to be hiding out...

When this worm turns, it’s going to be a lot faster than it has in the past. There is no free lunch, and if you can see that, there is a wealth transfer coming. The wealth transfer is going to have a bright red line, and people are going to get trapped on the side where they hold paper claims, and the people that are going to preserve their wealth are going to be on the other side of the line with their wealth tied up in real things. That’s the period of history that is about to unfold.”

Chris Martenson added this ominous statement: “We are one sinking of an aircraft carrier away from the U.S. dollar being revealed as a fraud.”

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Quote:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Quote:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Quote:

---

I don't think that cutting taxes in THIS situation will reduce the deficit. - SIGNY

You can argue with CBO about that. Lettuce know how well that works for ya. - JSF

---

JSF, you posted ...

Quote:

---

You should try reading some news sometime, instead of 3-month old outdated gibberish, which every reasonable person knew it was when it was propagated.
A few weeks later, the CBO announced that they were off by $2.95 Trillion, and the Trump Tax Reform would actually reduce the debt by $1.45 Trillion, after several years of first paying back the $1.5 Trillion.

---

I went to the CBO website and there was NOTHING there like this. So if you have information that none of us have ... LINKS, PLEASE?

Quote:

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To be technically accurate, I don't believe any reasonable projection has indicated the Obamanomics bloat will be halted soon enough to actually reduce the Debt in that timeframe, but the CBO was comparing the projections from before the Tax Reform, and then comparing again a few weeks later.

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As I requested: LINKS, PLEASE?

Quote:

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So, I do NOT agree with Trump's tax cut, unless there's something about "repatriation of capital" that I don't understand. When I have more time I'll research it.- SIGNY

Why don't you like Repatriation of Capital?- JSF

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It's not that I don't like it, it's that I don't know exactly what it is or how its supposed to work. Here are two threads of thought that I have on the topic ....

1) It's possible to reduce imports into the USA by charging tariffs, and if the tariffs are high enough you can essentially block certain imports. BUT, just because there is a deficit of (say) automobiles in the USA and (because of reduced supply and steady demand) the price goes up from $25,000 to $50,000, altho that represents an investment opportunity, that doesn't necessarily mean that any company will actually step in and invest. Perhaps the total investment is too high, or interest rates are too high, so altho the "environment" might be good, actual investment might not happen.

2) At the same time, if taxes allow profit to remain in the USA, PERHAPS that money would be used for investment.

So possibly between a "push" (availability of money) and a "pull" (demand for product) the right investment would happen to re-industrialize America, but it seems a bit indirect/ uncertain.

---

??
Did you miss the news of Apple's Repatriation of Capital, about $380 Billion worth? They contributed something like $38 Billion to Federal Revenue coffers.
Yes, they decided to contribute that much Taxes.



For the CBO stuff, I can't easily do linkies right now.
You can try this: go to this post fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=61505&mid=1056025
If that explanation is not enough for you, check the source data at CBO. They don't make it easy, and their written reports are garbage, hoping you won't notice how badly they lied the last month, every month. Use one of the links in that thread for CBO publications, and change the number to 53651 for the April report, and then 53884 for the May report.
IIRC, you want to look at the numbers at the end of the next decade, and compare. They tried very hard to obfuscate, but the numbers really are there.

Hopefully that gets you what you want.

The figures I posted above and you quoted are from recall and are slightly off, but the figures at the linked post are correct.

The April report is the Fake one, published so they could generate some Fake News headlines. That's the one where they say Tax Reform will add $1.9 Trillion to the Debt, compared to what they had projected previously.
The May report is where they backtracked to the vicinity of reality.
I posted the figures side by side in this post from that thread: 1053414.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Quote:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Quote:

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I don't think that cutting taxes in THIS situation will reduce the deficit. - SIGNY

You can argue with CBO about that. Lettuce know how well that works for ya. - JSF

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JSF, you posted ...

Quote:

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You should try reading some news sometime, instead of 3-month old outdated gibberish, which every reasonable person knew it was when it was propagated.
A few weeks later, the CBO announced that they were off by $2.95 Trillion, and the Trump Tax Reform would actually reduce the debt by $1.45 Trillion, after several years of first paying back the $1.5 Trillion.

---

I went to the CBO website and there was NOTHING there like this. So if you have information that none of us have ... LINKS, PLEASE?

Quote:

---

To be technically accurate, I don't believe any reasonable projection has indicated the Obamanomics bloat will be halted soon enough to actually reduce the Debt in that timeframe, but the CBO was comparing the projections from before the Tax Reform, and then comparing again a few weeks later.

---

As I requested: LINKS, PLEASE?

Quote:

---

So, I do NOT agree with Trump's tax cut, unless there's something about "repatriation of capital" that I don't understand. When I have more time I'll research it.- SIGNY

Why don't you like Repatriation of Capital?- JSF

---

It's not that I don't like it, it's that I don't know exactly what it is or how its supposed to work. Here are two threads of thought that I have on the topic ....

1) It's possible to reduce imports into the USA by charging tariffs, and if the tariffs are high enough you can essentially block certain imports. BUT, just because there is a deficit of (say) automobiles in the USA and (because of reduced supply and steady demand) the price goes up from $25,000 to $50,000, altho that represents an investment opportunity, that doesn't necessarily mean that any company will actually step in and invest. Perhaps the total investment is too high, or interest rates are too high, so altho the "environment" might be good, actual investment might not happen.

2) At the same time, if taxes allow profit to remain in the USA, PERHAPS that money would be used for investment.

So possibly between a "push" (availability of money) and a "pull" (demand for product) the right investment would happen to re-industrialize America, but it seems a bit indirect/ uncertain.

---

??
Did you miss the news of Apple's Repatriation of Capital, about $380 Billion worth? They contributed something like $38 Billion to Federal Revenue coffers.
Yes, they decided to contribute that much Taxes.



For the CBO stuff, I can't easily do linkies right now.
You can try this: go to this post fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=61505&mid=1056025
If that explanation is not enough for you, check the source data at CBO. They don't make it easy, and their written reports are garbage, hoping you won't notice how badly they lied the last month, every month. Use one of the links in that thread for CBO publications, and change the number to 53651 for the April report, and then 53884 for the May report.
IIRC, you want to look at the numbers at the end of the next decade, and compare. They tried very hard to obfuscate, but the numbers really are there.

Hopefully that gets you what you want.

The figures I posted above and you quoted are from recall and are slightly off, but the figures at the linked post are correct.

The April report is the Fake one, published so they could generate some Fake News headlines. That's the one where they say Tax Reform will add $1.9 Trillion to the Debt, compared to what they had projected previously.
The May report is where they backtracked to the vicinity of reality.
I posted the figures side by side in this post from that thread: 1053414.

---

Did that work for ya?

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Quote:

---

I don't think that cutting taxes in THIS situation will reduce the deficit. - SIGNY

You can argue with CBO about that. Lettuce know how well that works for ya. - JSF

---

JSF, you posted ...

Quote:

---

You should try reading some news sometime, instead of 3-month old outdated gibberish, which every reasonable person knew it was when it was propagated.
A few weeks later, the CBO announced that they were off by $2.95 Trillion, and the Trump Tax Reform would actually reduce the debt by $1.45 Trillion, after several years of first paying back the $1.5 Trillion.

---

I went to the CBO website and there was NOTHING there like this. So if you have information that none of us have ... LINKS, PLEASE?

Quote:

---

To be technically accurate, I don't believe any reasonable projection has indicated the Obamanomics bloat will be halted soon enough to actually reduce the Debt in that timeframe, but the CBO was comparing the projections from before the Tax Reform, and then comparing again a few weeks later.

---

As I requested: LINKS, PLEASE?

Quote:

---

So, I do NOT agree with Trump's tax cut, unless there's something about "repatriation of capital" that I don't understand. When I have more time I'll research it.- SIGNY

Why don't you like Repatriation of Capital?- JSF

---

It's not that I don't like it, it's that I don't know exactly what it is or how its supposed to work. Here are two threads of thought that I have on the topic ....

1) It's possible to reduce imports into the USA by charging tariffs, and if the tariffs are high enough you can essentially block certain imports. BUT, just because there is a deficit of (say) automobiles in the USA and (because of reduced supply and steady demand) the price goes up from $25,000 to $50,000, altho that represents an investment opportunity, that doesn't necessarily mean that any company will actually step in and invest. Perhaps the total investment is too high, or interest rates are too high, so altho the "environment" might be good, actual investment might not happen.

2) At the same time, if taxes allow profit to remain in the USA, PERHAPS that money would be used for investment.

So possibly between a "push" (availability of money) and a "pull" (demand for product) the right investment would happen to re-industrialize America, but it seems a bit indirect/ uncertain.

---

??
Did you miss the news of Apple's Repatriation of Capital, about $380 Billion worth? They contributed something like $38 Billion to Federal Revenue coffers.
Yes, they decided to contribute that much Taxes.



For the CBO stuff, I can't easily do linkies right now.
You can try this: go to this post fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=61505&mid=1056025
If that explanation is not enough for you, check the source data at CBO. They don't make it easy, and their written reports are garbage, hoping you won't notice how badly they lied the last month, every month. Use one of the links in that thread for CBO publications, and change the number to 53651 for the April report, and then 53884 for the May report.
IIRC, you want to look at the numbers at the end of the next decade, and compare. They tried very hard to obfuscate, but the numbers really are there.

Hopefully that gets you what you want.

The figures I posted above and you quoted are from recall and are slightly off, but the figures at the linked post are correct.

The April report is the Fake one, published so they could generate some Fake News headlines. That's the one where they say Tax Reform will add $1.9 Trillion to the Debt, compared to what they had projected previously.
The May report is where they backtracked to the vicinity of reality.
I posted the figures side by side in this post from that thread: 1053414.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Copied from a delusional thread:

Quote:

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Originally posted by second:
The Republicans’ $1.5 trillion tax cut will increase the federal debt by $1.9 trillion.

This comes from Table B-3 in the Congressional Budget Office report, page 129, so far in the back that no one reads it. The exact figure is $1.854 trillion from 2018 to 2028. That number was promised by Trump to be zero dollars or even a negative number.
www.cbo.gov/publication/53651

In other words, the tax cut doesn’t pay for itself. It doesn’t even partially pay for itself.

www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2018/04/cbo-projects-1-5-trillion-tax-c
ut-will-cost-1-6-trillion/

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Another ridiculous post quoted for posterity.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by Wishimay:
You know what's HILARIOUS?

Hubby worked for the coal mines until Obama, and now he works for a company that is going to be affected by the tariffs. In fact, they have already pared his department down to skeleton crew and he's doing the job of 3 people so this company, which made 7 BILLION dollars last year, could squeeze a few more nickels out.

Fucked by a black Prez, fucked by a white Prez...

Doesn't matter the color... we get fucked by the almighty dollah.

Dear Buddha...please, give all the politicians necrotizing fasciitis. They have it coming, really.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by Wishimay:
I was apolitical before you could spell it, boy-o.

You are really looking forward to having a female prez so you can blame women even harder, aren't you?

Sorry, one woman could NEVER outdo the screw ups of the last 45.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by second:
The U.S. is on track to post its biggest deficit in a decade.

Trump’s America First economic policies are designed to shrink the US trade deficit. But according to Janet Yellen, the former chair of the Federal Reserve, the deficit is on track to get bigger by the end of 2018.

Speaking at a conference in Beijing, Janet Yellen said that the steady rise in US interest rates is pushing up the value of the dollar, which will likely cause the US trade gap to widen further.
www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-11-13/yellen-says-fed-more-to-bla
me-for-wider-trade-deficit-than-china

Trump has so far focused on confronting what his administration deems unfair trade practices, erecting trade barriers against countries like China — ostensibly to offset the benefits of these tactics, or possibly to compel the countries to abandon the practices (the administration has never made its rationale all that clear). In her remarks in Beijing today, Yellen offered an implicit rebuke of this logic.

“I do not see unfair trade practices in China, or anywhere else in the world, as what is responsible for the US trade deficit,” said Yellen. “The US trade deficit reflects the fact that Americans spend more than we produce, and we import excess goods and services from the rest of the world to satisfy that demand.”

In other words, other factors influence America’s trade balance more than Chinese protectionism or China’s "unfair" trade practices. Ironically enough, the president’s fiscal stimulus is widening the deficit. The combination of tax cuts and increased spending has juiced demand. And since it takes time for domestic businesses to expand to meet said demand, imports have surged at a faster pace than exports. Beyond that, though, the trade balance reflects the fundamentals of an economy. To shrink the trade gap, Trump’s policies need to encourage a higher rate of savings. But his tax cuts and budgets policies are doing just the opposite. Instead of investing in America, Americans are buying things that don’t sustain long-term growth — consumer goods made in China, for instance.

More at https://qz.com/1461846/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Quote:

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Can anybody dig up the post where Second says . . .

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Quote:

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Originally posted by second:

Quote:

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Can anybody dig up the post where Second says . . .

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How is Trump's Trade War? Is he winning? No.

US trade deficit with China grows to a record and it’s likely even worse than the data shows.

China’s trade surplus with the U.S. — closely watched amid a bitter trade dispute between the two countries — grew 17 percent from a year ago to hit $323.32 billion in 2018. That’s the highest on record. The deficit that the U.S. has with China is likely even bigger since China calculates the numbers by excluding goods that end up in the U.S. via other countries.

www.cnbc.com/2019/01/14/china-2018-full-year-december-trade-exports-im
ports-trade-balance.html

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China's 2018 trade surplus with U.S. highest on record going back to 2006

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/chinas-2018-trade-surplus-with
-us-highest-on-record-going-back-to-2006/ar-BBScTVD

2018 worst year for the stock market in a decade. 2018 worst year for Chinese trade defect in over a decade. Government shutdown over a wall most Americans don't want. Syria pull out against the advice of everyone. Way to go Donny...

And how about a round of applause for jack jsf kiki and sig the trolls who post bullshit and lies supporting him. Dummies one and all.

T

Quote:

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A memorandum of understanding (MOU) is a nonbinding agreement between two or more parties outlining the terms and details of an understanding, including each parties' requirements and responsibilities. An MOU is often the first stage in the formation of a formal contract.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Lighthizer's an idiot.

Not only is it "A MOU", not "An MOU", but his definition is comically exactly the opposite of reality when he says “An MOU is a binding agreement between two people,” he said. “It’s detailed. It covers everything in great detail. It’s a legal term. It’s a contract.”


These old idiots need to learn how to Google.

Quote:

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A memorandum of understanding (MOU) is a nonbinding agreement between two or more parties outlining the terms and details of an understanding, including each parties' requirements and responsibilities. An MOU is often the first stage in the formation of a formal contract.

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https://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/mou.asp

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Quote:

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This appeared to be the latest instance of Trump seemingly being more worried about how an agreement was marketed than what it actually contained. It happened last year as well, when Trump was responsible for pushing a name change to the North American Free Trade Agreement, known as Nafta, to the U.S.-Mexico-Canada Agreement, or USMCA.

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