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Originally posted by Oonjerah:

6STRINGJOKER: "...and the other party is a symbol of all that is good and right in the world..."


Obviously, you're not addressing me. I didn't mention "the other party."
If you do address me, please don't try to put words in my mouth
or thoughts in my head. It's both rude & inaccurate.

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How did we get here?

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Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
LOL... well if we're just going to pretend that one party is the end of days for everybody else and the other party is a symbol of all that is good and right in the world then there is no debate to be had here.

I want to agree with you guys on things. I don't like being in the position of defending the establishment. It's not the side I'm usually on.

You sure don't make it easy though.

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Originally posted by Oonjerah:

Quote:

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Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
LOL... well if we're just going to pretend that one party is the end of days for everybody else and the other party is a symbol of all that is good and right in the world then there is no debate to be had here.

I want to agree with you guys on things. I don't like being in the position of defending the establishment. It's not the side I'm usually on.

You sure don't make it easy though.

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On 1st read, I thought "we're" referred to me. But now,
I guess it refers to yourself & like minded friends.

I don't know who "you guys" & "You" refers to, but am I one of them?

But if none of those pronouns refers to me, I'm happy
& will not be offended. It was a misunderstanding. Yes?

Donald J. Trump as PotUS, I consider this a bad mistake. I'd say
the same if he were a libertarian, independent or democrat.

Did you read the article I linked to?

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
I must admit I did not think that Donald J. Trump would ever reach the White House. Never in a million years would I have ever guessed it. Well, it shows how dumb I am.

I mostly loathe the Salamander-in-Chief, mainly because he's a slimebag, but personal feelings aside, he has done a masterful job at keeping his campaign promises. He's done so well in most, whoop-de-doo! but I would like to focus your attention to the topic of the thread at hand, namely:

Draining the Swamp.

Tom Price, the head of the Health and Human Services Department, lovely man and rotten scumbag:

Wasting taxpayer's money - uses PRIVATE JETS to fly about the country at the cost of an estimated $400,000 in five months. His predecessor, Kathleen Sebelius, in 8 years in office, took one such flight to visit 3 remote villages in Alaska. Price took one such trip from D.C. to Philly costing $25,000.00 - One flight. Now that is very "swampy."


SGG

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:

Quote:

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
I must admit I did not think that Donald J. Trump would ever reach the White House. Never in a million years would I have ever guessed it. Well, it shows how dumb I am.

I mostly loathe the Salamander-in-Chief, mainly because he's a slimebag, but personal feelings aside, he has done a masterful job at keeping his campaign promises. He's done so well in most, whoop-de-doo! but I would like to focus your attention to the topic of the thread at hand, namely:

Draining the Swamp.

Tom Price, the head of the Health and Human Services Department, lovely man and rotten scumbag:

Wasting taxpayer's money - uses PRIVATE JETS to fly about the country at the cost of an estimated $400,000 in five months. His predecessor, Kathleen Sebelius, in 8 years in office, took one such flight to visit 3 remote villages in Alaska. Price took one such trip from D.C. to Philly costing $25,000.00 - One flight. Now that is very "swampy."

SGG

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And now, Price "resigns" under fire. Good riddens, I say......and now on to the other stupid fucks trying to sneak by and do as Trump does.

real smart.

SGG

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Originally posted by Oonjerah:
So are we moving toward: 2% of the people will control 90% of the money?

How did we get here?

How the Right Lost Its Mind and Embraced Donald Trump
http://www.newsweek.com/2017/09/29/right-lost-mind-embraced-donald-tru
mp-668180.html

While I was bemoaning that he'd won the election & was totally
unsuitable, a friend of mine told me that the GOP had gone nuts.
He blamed religion, though.

I feel that DJT will soon offend most of the Republicans.
Conservatives don't like to look so foolish, do they?



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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Quote:

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
And now, Price "resigns" under fire. Good riddens, I say......and now on to the other stupid fucks trying to sneak by and do as Trump does.

real smart.


SGG

Quote:

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
I must admit I did not think that Donald J. Trump would ever reach the White House. Never in a million years would I have ever guessed it. Well, it shows how dumb I am.

I mostly loathe the Salamander-in-Chief, mainly because he's a slimebag, but personal feelings aside, he has done a masterful job at keeping his campaign promises. He's done so well in most, whoop-de-doo! but I would like to focus your attention to the topic of the thread at hand, namely:

Draining the Swamp.

Tom Price, the head of the Health and Human Services Department, lovely man and rotten scumbag:

Wasting taxpayer's money - uses PRIVATE JETS to fly about the country at the cost of an estimated $400,000 in five months. His predecessor, Kathleen Sebelius, in 8 years in office, took one such flight to visit 3 remote villages in Alaska. Price took one such trip from D.C. to Philly costing $25,000.00 - One flight. Now that is very "swampy."


SGG

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That guy must have thought it was still the Obamination years, wasting government funds on air travel.
Using government contracted carriers on government approved and bidded travel with government oversight endorsement and recommendation, that is just uncalled for - Obama and Moochelle never stooped to reasonable standards like that!

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Obama, oh I forgot, he's to blame for Hurricane Maria and all the rest...right!

Meanwhile Trump is Making America Great Again, YEAH RIGHT!

SGG

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Quote:

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
And now, Price "resigns" under fire. Good riddens, I say......and now on to the other stupid fucks trying to sneak by and do as Trump does.

real smart.


SGG

Quote:

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
I must admit I did not think that Donald J. Trump would ever reach the White House. Never in a million years would I have ever guessed it. Well, it shows how dumb I am.

I mostly loathe the Salamander-in-Chief, mainly because he's a slimebag, but personal feelings aside, he has done a masterful job at keeping his campaign promises. He's done so well in most, whoop-de-doo! but I would like to focus your attention to the topic of the thread at hand, namely:

Draining the Swamp.

Tom Price, the head of the Health and Human Services Department, lovely man and rotten scumbag:

Wasting taxpayer's money - uses PRIVATE JETS to fly about the country at the cost of an estimated $400,000 in five months. His predecessor, Kathleen Sebelius, in 8 years in office, took one such flight to visit 3 remote villages in Alaska. Price took one such trip from D.C. to Philly costing $25,000.00 - One flight. Now that is very "swampy."

SGG

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That guy must have thought it was still the Obamination years, wasting government funds on air travel.
Using government contracted carriers on government approved and bidded travel with government oversight endorsement and recommendation, that is just uncalled for - Obama and Moochelle never stooped to reasonable standards like that!

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Quote:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Quote:

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Obama, oh I forgot, he's to blame for Hurricane Maria and all the rest...right!

Meanwhile Trump is Making America Great Again, YEAH RIGHT!

SGG

Quote:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Quote:

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
And now, Price "resigns" under fire. Good riddens, I say......and now on to the other stupid fucks trying to sneak by and do as Trump does.

real smart.


SGG

Quote:

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
I must admit I did not think that Donald J. Trump would ever reach the White House. Never in a million years would I have ever guessed it. Well, it shows how dumb I am.

I mostly loathe the Salamander-in-Chief, mainly because he's a slimebag, but personal feelings aside, he has done a masterful job at keeping his campaign promises. He's done so well in most, whoop-de-doo! but I would like to focus your attention to the topic of the thread at hand, namely:

Draining the Swamp.

Tom Price, the head of the Health and Human Services Department, lovely man and rotten scumbag:

Wasting taxpayer's money - uses PRIVATE JETS to fly about the country at the cost of an estimated $400,000 in five months. His predecessor, Kathleen Sebelius, in 8 years in office, took one such flight to visit 3 remote villages in Alaska. Price took one such trip from D.C. to Philly costing $25,000.00 - One flight. Now that is very "swampy."

SGG

---

---

That guy must have thought it was still the Obamination years, wasting government funds on air travel.
Using government contracted carriers on government approved and bidded travel with government oversight endorsement and recommendation, that is just uncalled for - Obama and Moochelle never stooped to reasonable standards like that!

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Yer sayin Maria is Tom Price's fault?

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Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
I wonder what's worse....

The premeditated destruction of America by the presidents and the administrations of the last couple of decades, or an accidental one now.

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Accidental!? Well, that's a unique way of putting it. And premeditated? How so?
I could see it in Bush's case - WMDs, that was an out and out lie; in order for Cheney to make billions with Halliburton. Anyway, that's done with.

But accidental? Trump promised to Make American Great Again...has he kept his promise? Is he making America great.....again? Wasn't it always great? I don't get it. Wasn't America great when Obama brought us back from the brink of economic collapse? Or when he negotiated with Iran to stop them from developing N-bombs?
Wasn't America great during the Olympics? Or when we got Bin Laden? Or when the car industry came back? Was America that bad off in the last 15 years?

By the way, when are we going to start winning? When will we win so much that we'll say: "Mr. President, please, no more winning." Do you think you would ever say, "no more winning"?

Just a thought!


SGG

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Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
I wonder what's worse....

The premeditated destruction of America by the presidents and the administrations of the last couple of decades, or an accidental one now.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Dems tend to frame their military interventions as "helping"(!) the people. Yanukovich (despite having been elected) was an "undemocratic" leader;

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Qaddafi was "massacring his own people";

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Assad was Massacring his own people";

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and the Xtian blacks of southern Sudan were yearning to breathe fee from the Muslim Arabs of northern Sudan.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
The "pattern" to my examples is the "pattern" established by USA policy which is that under all recent Presidents, whether Dem or Repub, the United States has been knocking over foreign nations like bowling pins in a bowling alley

I noticed a "pattern" in YOUR posts, SECOND.

(1) The only examples of war-mongering that YOU objected to were the examples that occurred under Obama. Well, I hate to tell you this, hon, but "Saint Obama" was just as war-mongery as GWB. That's the truth; deal with it.

(2) When Democratic policy starts to smell, DON'T look at the lies told to get "the people" behind (yet another) war, DON'T acknowledge that Dems have left great smoking swaths of economic and social ruin in their wakes, DON'T admit to failure and corruption .... BLAME PUTIN. Yeah! That's the answer!

That's been the Dem party establishment response for about the past year, and now, with more retro-activity!

Yanno SECOND, YOU should be upset that Dems have caused so much needless death and destruction. I mean, what the hell is wrong with you, that you would object to ANYone looking at the great smoking clusterfucks of instability that Saint Obama created? You DO know that hundreds of thousands of people were killed, yes? That many more were injured, that many women were enslaved, that millions were made refugees, and that the accumulated capital and infrastructure of hundreds of years was destroyed?

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Is there something missing from your moral or intellectual code that makes you incapable of even recognizing and acknowledging the pointless pain and suffering that Saint Obama caused?

After all, you spend so much time weeping and wailing about the poor illegal immigrant/ person of color/ insert your victim subgroup of choice here , one would think that you care a great deal about ALL people impacted by USA policy.

But you'll let nothing stand in your way ... not truth, not even-handedness, and CERTAINLY not morals .... of finding one excuse after another for the Dem party.

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Wasn't that the whole point of everything Obama did and wanted to do? And all Democrats, for that matter? They need to destroy, Bush wanted to Liberate, provide Freedom, support progress.- JSF

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wow.
Your media has really good Koolaid.

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Originally posted by Oonjerah:
The 12 most damning Bob Corker quotes about Donald Trump
http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/09/politics/trump-corker-quotes/index.html

(CNN) — Bob Corker went off on Donald Trump Sunday night.

For 25 minutes, the Tennessee Republican senator unloaded lots (and lots)
of pent-up frustrations to New York Times' reporter Jonathan Martin. ...


... oooOO}{OOooo ...
Well ... yeah!

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Originally posted by Oonjerah:
Forbes ...
How to be President : the Art of the Deal ... are the same thing for Trump.
Hmmm?

Inside Trump’s Head: An Exclusive Interview With the President,
And The Single Theory That Explains Everything
https://www.forbes.com/donald-trump/exclusive-interview/#1d086ceabdec


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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Yanno SECOND, YOU should be upset that Dems have caused so much needless death and destruction. I mean, what the hell is wrong with you, that you would object to ANYone looking at the great smoking clusterfucks of instability that Saint Obama created? You DO know that hundreds of thousands of people were killed, yes? That many more were injured, that many women were enslaved, that millions were made refugees, and that the accumulated capital and infrastructure of hundreds of years was destroyed?

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Why do Americans not care?

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It is not the Democratic Party telling them to not care.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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Why do Americans not care?

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Nice deflection SECOND.

YOU, SECOND. YOU. Will you endlessly drag the GOP and Trump and the Russian red herrings thru every criticism of the Dem Party?

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Evidence: So where are we now(II) ?
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=61935

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A thread for Democrats Only
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=61954

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Originally posted by 1kiki:

We got it. Ages ago. You despise republicans.

But why does that blind you to the ironically-named democratic party faults?

You can be anti-republican and still be critical of the things democrats are doing that are self-destructively wrong (such as manipulating the process to shoe-horn in a candidate with historic net negative ratings).

DEMOCRATS - gibbering endlessly about Trump while failing to be an actual alternative is not how you win friends and influence people. MAKE YOUR OBJECTIONS SUBSTANTIVE AND PROVABLE. AND MAKE YOURSELVES A VIABLE MAJORITY ALTERNATIVE.

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Why do Americans not care? - SECOND

Nice deflection SECOND. YOU, SECOND. YOU. Will you endlessly drag the GOP and Trump and the Russian red herrings thru every criticism of the Dem Party?0 SIGNY

Do you see war protesters marching in the streets of America? No. Do you see American war veterans demanding peace? No. That is why the Democratic party and the GOP are constantly spending to go to war with the world. The Democrats less than the GOP, but neither are a peace party. If the Democrats were a peace party, the GOP would use its demagoguery skills to make Democrats appear to be soft, weak, appeasers and Americans would respond by voting even more overwhelmingly Republican. Why would I care to join a peace movement? I do NOT fit the description of a peaceful person, although I do vote for Democrats.- SECOND

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
ANOTHER deflection SECOND.

Nice deflection SECOND. YOU, SECOND. YOU. Will you endlessly drag the GOP and Trump and the Russian red herrings thru every criticism of the Dem Party?

I was asking about YOUR personal moral judgment, not about "the [stupid] American people" whom you constantly hide behind at the same time that you berate them.

So, let's keep this simple: Do you approve or disapprove of Democrats destroying nations abroad, with the result that those nations become more tyrannical and less prosperous than before?

Why, or why not?

I have other comments about that post, but I want to keep this focused on your moral choices.

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And as a fact it is not the Democrats destroying.-SECOND

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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And as a fact it is not the Democrats destroying.-SECOND

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More deflection.

Are you saying that President Obama had nothing to do with destroying Ukraine, Libya, Syria, and Sudan?

That Presidents are just along for the ride?

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I don't care. I picked that attitude up from the Jehovah's Witnesses. The world is all Satan's, all the time, and why should I care since Jehovah will very soon annihilate the wicked in Armageddon? (Hasn't happened, but maybe God overslept?) Jehovah's Witnesses saw all political parties and nations controlled by the devil. - SECOND

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And as a fact it is not the Democrats destroying.-SECOND

More deflection.
Are you saying that President Obama had nothing to do with destroying Ukraine, Libya, Syria, and Sudan?
Rhat Presidents are just along for the ride? - SIGNY

Yes, I am. When was the last time America had a declaration of War? 1942. No declarations since then. That would not be how a country runs when the people at the very top are actually making the topmost decisions.

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And are you saying Ukraine, Libya, Syria, and Sudan are not Putin projects?- SECOND

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Well, all you've shown by THIS statement is that CONGRESS isn't doing its job, but is instead relying on the PRESIDENT (who is, after all COMMANDER IN CHIEF) to handle military actions.

So, you haven't carved out any space for Obama with this argument. In fact, all you've done is throw even more responsibility onto his shoulders. Also, this is counterfactual to known events, like Obama personally handling the secret drone "kill list" and agitating to destroy Libya.

Quote:

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And are you saying Ukraine, Libya, Syria, and Sudan are not Putin projects?- SECOND

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Are you a complete lunatic? Was it Putin who destroyed these nations?

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
So every President, from Truman through Trump, is a pawn of the Pentagon.

What about the CIA? Are Presidents pawns of the CIA?

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
So every President, from Truman through Trump, is a pawn of the Pentagon.

What about the CIA? Are Presidents pawns of the CIA?

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Quote:

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:

Quote:

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
I must admit I did not think that Donald J. Trump would ever reach the White House. Never in a million years would I have ever guessed it. Well, it shows how dumb I am.

I mostly loathe the Salamander-in-Chief, mainly because he's a slimebag, but personal feelings aside, he has done a masterful job at keeping his campaign promises. He's done so well in most, whoop-de-doo! but I would like to focus your attention to the topic of the thread at hand, namely:

Draining the Swamp.

Tom Price, the head of the Health and Human Services Department, lovely man and rotten scumbag:

Wasting taxpayer's money - uses PRIVATE JETS to fly about the country at the cost of an estimated $400,000 in five months. His predecessor, Kathleen Sebelius, in 8 years in office, took one such flight to visit 3 remote villages in Alaska. Price took one such trip from D.C. to Philly costing $25,000.00 - One flight. Now that is very "swampy."

SGG

---

And now, Price "resigns" under fire. Good riddens, I say......and now on to the other stupid fucks trying to sneak by and do as Trump does.

real smart.

SGG

---

That guy must have thought it was still the Obamination years, wasting government funds on air travel.
Using government contracted carriers on government approved and bidded travel with government oversight endorsement and recommendation, that is just uncalled for - Obama and Moochelle never stooped to reasonable standards like that!

---

Quote:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
As long as "establishment" candidates make it to Congress and the Presidency, IMHO the answer is pretty much "yes".

Oh, the Dems and the Repubs are different flavors, but when it comes to issues that affect the 0.01%, they pretty much sing from the same hymnbook.

Here's how I see the Dem establishment:
WAR
When it comes to making war, the Dems are just as war-mongering as the Repubs. Bush destroyed Afghanistan and Iraq, but Obama managed to destroy Libya and Ukraine, split Sudan, and tried to destroy Syria. BOTH parties moved our NATO forces towards Russia, but the Dems made a critical geopolitical error: They decided to "pivot to Asia" ( 2010 https://thediplomat.com/2017/01/the-pivot-to-asia-was-obamas-biggest-m
istake/) which forced China into the arms of Russia, and then their absurd sanctions and economic warfare against Russia forced Russia into the arms of China.

The difference in flavor? The Dems (Obama, Hillary, Kerry) favored proxy warfare and hybrid warfare, propelled by CIA/ State Department/ NGO/ Saudi-funded terrorist organizations, whereas the Repubs have generally favored the official military and big boots-on-the-ground actions.

FINACIALIZATION
Both the Dems and the Repubs are anxious to meet the desires of the 0.01% Bill Clinton gave up on financial regulation when he repealed Glass Steagall and signed the Commodities Futures Trading Act. The consequences weren't apparent until 2008. Both Bush and Obama tossed money at banks that speculated fraudulently, and despite Dodd-Frank, NEITHER party has reined in the rampant speculation (on credit) since then. And Dodd-Frank, due to its complexity, is preventing smaller banks - like community banks - from opening. There are answers to the problems, but I see no difference between the parties in how they treat financialization. Warren has made some weak-kneed moves towards "consumer protection", Kamala Harris, the up-and-coming CA Senator, caved in by accepting Obama's lack of banker prosecution ... the underlying weakness of the Dem position runs pretty much up and down the party.

The difference in flavor? The Dems are willing to make tiny concessions to "the people" as long as they don't impact the bottom line of the financialists.

TRADE
Both parties have pushed for greater international "free trade", once again favoring the 0.01%. Nixon "opened up China" with a special trade deal. Bill Clinton pushed for, and got, NAFTA, and CAFTA, and awarded China permanent normal trade relations, which helped them achieve acceptance into the WTO. GWB, according to the official website "increas[ed] the number of countries partnered with the U.S. on free trade agreements (FTAs) from three to 16". Obama attempted even broader scope "free trade" agreements with TTIP (Atlantic nations) and TPP (Pacific nations). Only Trump has pushed back on this, and he's being maneuvered into giving up many of his goals here, too.

The difference in flavor? None, as far as I can tell.

Anyway, I have to get busy, but I can give you a much longer disquisition on how I think the parties are the same and where they're flavored differently on issues like the deficit, the economy, and social issues. But overall, on anything that really matters, just plan on being stabbed in the back by both parties.


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Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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