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REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS
"Evidens". So, where are we now?
Monday, July 17, 2017 3:21 PM
SIGNYM
I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.
Quote:So, what are America's interests?- SIGNY What truly kicked the Trump-Russia story into high gear was when the president went from dismissive tweets about the ongoing FBI investigation to firing the FBI director, having his administration lie about why he’d fired the FBI director, and then going on national television and admitting to NBC News’s Lester Holt that “when I decided to just do it I said to myself, I said, ‘You know, this Russia thing with Trump and Russia is a made-up story.’” Of all the many potential lines of inquiry into Trump’s conduct as president, Russia is the one we have an official investigation of, not because it’s the only topic that matters but because it’s the one topic that a handful of Republican Russia hawks in Congress care about enough to provide some check on Trump’s power. - SECOND
Quote:But even if you don’t care about the specifics, the question it raises — can the president act as, at best, an accessory after the fact to crimes...
Quote:Russia, in part through happenstance, happens to be where the rubber is hitting the road. But the whole truck is riding on those tires. - SECOND
Monday, July 17, 2017 3:57 PM
Quote: Siggy and Kiggy don't really believe Hillary was going to start WWIII. That's a convenient lie. There might be a slim chance that they believed had she won, Putin would have started WWIII. Otherwise, it's just another weak bogey man to cover their support for Trump. Siggy believes Trump was the worst choice for the US and the best choice for Russia. That he will do serious damage to the US - payback or something. - GSTGRING
Tuesday, July 18, 2017 8:11 AM
SECOND
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two
Quote:Originally posted by SIGNYM: WHAT crimes? That's the point where GSTRING and THUGR get stuck ... can't even formulate what charges might be brought, but they're sure Trump is guilty! Talking to a Russian is not "collusion". Even if you were to say that Jr's meeting indicates a willingness to collude, "willingness" to collude IS NOT A CRIME. Unless, of course, you fall into that group of people - like GSTRING and THUGR - who believe that "wrong thinking" is a crime. Real life example: I was certain that many people in the GWB administration lied their asses off, knowingly and deliberately, about Saddam's so-called WMD. Lied morning, noon, and night, to the American media, the American people, the UN, and our allies. They were deliberate lies that got somewhere between 100,000- 1 million civilians killed, thousands of US service and contracted security staff killed or disabled, destablized the entire mideast, and cost over a trillion dollars, and we're STILL paying for those lies! But where's the crime? What do you charge those individuals with?
Tuesday, July 18, 2017 10:23 AM
Quote:.... It’s easy to forget amid the partisan tumult and talk of possible “collusion” between the Trump campaign and a foreign power, but this whole story started with a rather straightforward crime. Someone — later identified by American intelligence and law enforcement officials as the Russian government — hacked first the Democratic National Committee internal email and then the Gmail inbox of John Podesta, Hillary Clinton’s campaign chair. They then posted the entirety of the stolen emails online for the world to see.= SECOND
Tuesday, July 18, 2017 11:57 AM
Quote:Originally posted by SIGNYM: As I have said many times over, Hillary and Trump are ethical equivalents (and don't make me pull up my old quotes, because you know I will), with Trump getting slight edge because he has had less time in government to be corrupt.
Tuesday, July 18, 2017 12:22 PM
Wednesday, July 19, 2017 8:56 AM
Quote:Originally posted by SIGNYM: But you have to wonder, SECOND .... well, you SHOULD wonder, anyway ... why is DC so hell-bent on destroying Trump? It's a fact which has gone from being denied ("Trump's crazy" "There's no such thing as a deep state") to suddenly being accepted, without ever having been questioned or examined in the transition. But that's propaganda for you: to make the obvious disappear.
Wednesday, July 19, 2017 3:25 PM
Wednesday, July 19, 2017 9:32 PM
Quote:Originally posted by SIGNYM: SECOND, I guess my point was lost in translation. . . . It's like everyone is depending on the GPS of the media to tell them what's important, what's real, what to look at. There seem to be no other frames of reference - no moral compass, no historic landmarks, no test against reality, and not even the memory of what they were thinking last week or last month to tell them what direction they're going in. The people who control the GPS signal control the people who depend on it.
Wednesday, July 19, 2017 11:02 PM
Thursday, July 20, 2017 11:18 PM
Quote:Originally posted by SIGNYM: I like my analogy better. We're sailors in a mostly unknown sea, not dogs.
Friday, July 21, 2017 12:24 AM
Friday, July 21, 2017 2:01 AM
6STRINGJOKER
Friday, July 21, 2017 8:08 AM
Quote:Originally posted by 6stringJoker: I have my doubts that he would do that. I would hope that if he wrote himself a get out of jail free card there would be riots by both the left and the right. And you're right... it's WAY to early to even be thinking about that. Shouldn't these brilliant minds be doing something productive with their time?
Friday, July 21, 2017 8:16 AM
Quote:Originally posted by second: Quote:Originally posted by 6stringJoker: I have my doubts that he would do that. I would hope that if he wrote himself a get out of jail free card there would be riots by both the left and the right. And you're right... it's WAY to early to even be thinking about that. Shouldn't these brilliant minds be doing something productive with their time?The deal is that every President is under tremendous scrutiny. Obama was covered day and night, but as soon as he left office, he could barely get any coverage. Once retired, he goes on a long, exotic vacation and there is close to nothing in the news. Everything a President does gets covered and most of the coverage is gossip. Why Republicans get upset is they can't remember that this is how it is done. Is it really unfair that every dumb thing a President does gets commented on? Trump is talking about another dumb stunt, which will get him gossiped about: Trump team seeks to control, block Mueller’s Russia investigation www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-team-seeks-to-control-block-mueller%E2%80%99s-russia-investigation/ar-AAows5X?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartanntp
Friday, July 21, 2017 8:17 AM
1KIKI
Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.
Quote:People tend to freeze even when not in disasters. They can't think their way out, even if given months, years, decades to plan a sensible, reasonable escape from their difficulties. Instead, they hope for miracles: win the lottery or a heroic president comes to their rescue or God touches them or a long lost relative leaves them a fortune or Hollywood discovers their talents, etc.
Friday, July 21, 2017 8:22 AM
Quote:Originally posted by 1kiki: For example, take a look at SECOND. Frozen like a victim in fear of the hypnotic Trump cobra, SECOND can't even post one reasonable post about where we are, and what to do about it - instead relying on magical repeated recitations of the anti-Trump litanies in order to, somehow, make it all better.
Friday, July 21, 2017 8:37 AM
Friday, July 21, 2017 9:38 AM
Friday, July 21, 2017 12:24 PM
Friday, July 21, 2017 12:59 PM
Friday, July 21, 2017 1:16 PM
Quote:People tend to freeze even when not in disasters. They can't think their way out, even if given months, years, decades to plan a sensible, reasonable escape from their difficulties. Instead, they hope for miracles: win the lottery or a heroic president comes to their rescue or God touches them or a long lost relative leaves them a fortune or Hollywood discovers their talents, etc. - SECOND
Friday, July 21, 2017 1:18 PM
THGRRI
Quote:Originally posted by second: 1kiki, that's three times in a row you posted the same comment and yet you have not explained why you, a Hillary-hating lefty, has become a staunch supporter of Trump. You were supporting Bernie Sanders! Have you forgotten? Or have you always been really Signym using an alternate name? Bernie takes responibility for killing Trump's bill www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2017/07/19/bernie_sanders_if_president_trump_wants_to_blame_me_for_killing_obamacare_repeal_bill_i_accept_that_responsibility_completely.html
Friday, July 21, 2017 1:41 PM
Quote:“Everyday I wake up and say, ‘It could have been Hillary'” Kentucky Senator Rand Paul may have some issues with President Donald Trump, but at least it’s not President Hillary. The former Republican presidential candidate said he’s grateful every morning we’re not under Hillary’s rule, which would likely have resulted in “war everywhere,” including against American businesses. “I always compare. Every day, I wake up, and I say, ‘It could have been Hillary Clinton,’” Paul told Fox & Friends Thursday. “We could be at war in the Middle East because Hillary Clinton wanted to go to war everywhere, and she would be at war with American business. It could be terrible, and I think Trump’s doing a much better job than we would have gotten.”
Friday, July 21, 2017 7:34 PM
Quote:So now all of a sudden Trump is controlling the Deep State?? I thought you said the opposite? They sure are handy to have around - they can be whatever you need them to be whenever you need it. - GSTRING
Friday, July 21, 2017 11:12 PM
Quote:Originally posted by second: blah blah blah ...
Saturday, July 22, 2017 7:38 AM
Quote:US Launching Sunday Raids To Arrest Illegal Immigrant Gang Members With Trump desperate for a distraction from the daily Russian collusion media onslaught, and perhaps under the advice of his brand new counsel, Reuters reports that U.S. immigration agents are set to launch nationwide raids next week to arrest teenagers who entered the country without guardians and are suspected gang members, as part of President Donald Trump's crackdown on illegal immigrants. The raids, targeting teenagers 16 and 17-years-old, will begin on Sunday and continue through Wednesday.
Saturday, July 22, 2017 7:58 AM
Quote:Originally posted by SIGNYM: I'm sure liberals are wringing their hands already.
Saturday, July 22, 2017 11:17 AM
Quote:The real answer to the myriad legal and constitutional questions Trump raises with each exhale is, of course, that the legalities don’t matter because he doesn’t care, and he either fires, berates, or isolates the lawyers around him who do care. This is asymmetrical warfare insofar as the people who continue to think in terms of the rule of law mistakenly believe that there might be legal solutions.- SECOND
Saturday, July 22, 2017 1:51 PM
Quote:Originally posted by SIGNYM: Quote:The real answer to the myriad legal and constitutional questions Trump raises with each exhale is, of course, that the legalities don’t matter because he doesn’t care, and he either fires, berates, or isolates the lawyers around him who do care. This is asymmetrical warfare insofar as the people who continue to think in terms of the rule of law mistakenly believe that there might be legal solutions.- SECOND There you go, thinking with your hormones again.
Saturday, July 22, 2017 3:19 PM
Quote:Originally posted by SECOND RATE Trump is preoccupied with Hillary because she ruined his victory: he still can’t stand the thought that she got several million more votes than he did.
Saturday, July 22, 2017 6:10 PM
Quote:Originally posted by 1kiki: If I were to get anything out of Trump's tweets, it's that he's being subjected to a double standard - very slight, fleeting, and peripheral contacts with Russia are under intense scrutiny, while Hillary's very substantial, extended, and lucrative contacts with Russia are ignored. Which is realistically a fair observation. OTOH - YOU'RE preoccupied with the legally meaningless bit of popular-vote fluff. Meanwhile, there's a whole set of concerns that Hillary didn't address across the entire country, that caused people to not vote for her across the entire country.
Saturday, July 22, 2017 11:18 PM
Sunday, July 23, 2017 8:08 AM
Sunday, July 23, 2017 8:20 AM
Sunday, July 23, 2017 8:36 AM
Quote:Originally posted by 1kiki: So? Congress voted us into Iraq. Congress passed many 'free-trade' bills. Congress does a lot of backwards things. Just because Congress does something doesn't make it wise and necessary. Aside from cringing - again - over something really stupid that Congress has done - again - why should I care?
Sunday, July 23, 2017 8:43 AM
Sunday, July 23, 2017 8:55 AM
Quote:Originally posted by 1kiki: On exactly the same kind of 'evidence' (ie repeated assertion without basis) that got us into Iraq. I see Congress doesn't learn from past grievous mistakes. Now, since I was completely against the war in Iraq because my bullshit alarm was going off non-stop, I've learned to trust my bullshit alarm. And my bullshit alarm indicates this is bullshit.
Sunday, July 23, 2017 9:16 AM
Quote:Trump's great salesmanship has done the opposite.
Sunday, July 23, 2017 9:40 AM
Quote:Originally posted by 1kiki: Quote:Trump's great salesmanship has done the opposite. Trump has nothing to do with it. . . . But whatever. You seem to believe that just because the bullshit comes from a side you like better, it makes it smell better. You seem to think your partisanship makes everything right. I hope you're happy with how it's all working out.
Sunday, July 23, 2017 9:44 AM
Sunday, July 23, 2017 9:55 AM
Quote:Originally posted by SIGNYM: Jo, I'm going to tell you a story which I hope you'll take the time to read. It's a real-life story (mine) with strange parallels to today. A long time ago, on a website far away ... This was a website dedicated mostly to neurological disorders, and there was a forum for parents of neuroatypical children. Many of the participants were midwestern stay-at-home moms; but wherever we were from this was where we came to share information and heartache. 9-11 affected everyone; discussion about it derailed most forums, so the webmaster decided to corral the discussions by creating a real-world events discussion forum, much like Haken did here. 9-11, in my view, was no big surprise. It didn't take a genius to draw a straight line between the Kenyan embassy bombing or the attack on the Cole and the USA. There was nothing between us and "them" except a big empty ocean, and any dedicated terrorist would find their way across sooner or later. It was just a matter of time, and I spent the roughly three years after the Embassy bombing waiting for the other shoe to drop. Hubby and I would think about how one could do the most damage with the least effort; and in the end, when 9-11 happened, I was actually somewhat relieved that "the worst" didn't happen because it could have been so much worse. I won't say how, but we could have been talking millions of dead, not thousands. In some ways, I didn't understand most people's terror and surprise. I was telling people to get over their shock and terror because we needed to DEAL with the foreign policy that caused this, and deal with the threat of terrorism at home. Needless to say, people hated me, and I was accused of being .... wait for it ... a terrorist sympathizer. Then, when GWB started cranking up the war propaganda machine to bomb Afghanistan back into the stone age, I was heartsick. There he was, making innocent people suffer by bombing them for a cause that they didn't even choose. I could imagine Afghanistan being torn apart- again - and us being involved in an endless guerrilla war, another Vietnam, just in a different place. So I started making predictions ... we're planning to invade. We're going to start by bombing, followed by our tanks and troops. Each prediction was followed by a chorus of "No we aren't" which was followed by the event. As you may recall, at that point, there had been SOME evidence that Osama bin Laden had been experimenting with chemical weapons. I thought that Osama's plan was ... well, if the mountain won't come to Mohammed, Mohammed must go to the mountain. I thought that Osama had lured those distant faraway American troops into a trap, that in some cold mountain pass, where troops would be all bunched up, hell would be unleashed on them. So I predicted something like "Right about now I'd be worried about chemical or biological weapons". Well, as luck would have it, the anthrax letters were mailed about a week or so later. OMG, did some on the board go into a tizzy! Since they were already convinced that I was at least a terrorist sympathizer, and they knew I knew something about science ... well, hell, I might have been a terrorist myself! Maybe even someone who sent those anthrax letters! So they urged the webmaster to give my particulars to the FBI, and few weeks after that, when the FBI was swarming around the middleastern community in Orange County, they detailed a few of their (probably junior staff) to follow me. Now, I was completely innocent of anything, and all I had been saying was.... this isn't going to work, we have to stop invading so many nations and making so many enemies; we need to be an awful lot smarter about our foreign policy and internal security. At the time, dear daughter was slipping into dementia from uncontrolled seizures; she was depending on ME as an anchor to reality. If I had been arrested and detained, even for a few weeks, I can't imagine what might have happened to her. To continue the story, by the time Congress passed the so-called "Patriot" Act, the destruction of Afghanistan was well underway and GWB was gearing up for ANOTHER invasion, I was livid. Even though I TOLD people that they were being driven by hysteria and scare-mongering, that everything they read in the newspaper was bullshit ... about Sarin, about yellowcake, about aluminum tubes, anthrax, nuclear bombs and all of the rest of it was all LIES, nobody would listen because they were already CONVINCED I didn't have our interests at heart. I was a "terrorist sympathizer" you see, because I was CRITICIZING the WH, the media, and the war drumbeat. I watched as nearly an entire nation (less approx 30%, who had more common sense) was driven temporarily insane by a torrent of bullshit, brought to you by (nearly) every high-ranking foreign-policy or military person in the WH, from Condoleezza Rice to Colin Powell to Donald Rumsfeld to the President himself, dutifully and (mostly unquestioningly) repeated in the media ... particularly Judith Miller of the NYT. Now, some of these scaremongering items I KNEW to be false ... the supposed yellowcake contract was replete with obvious forgeries, the "aluminum tubes" didn't meet the specs for nuclear centrifuges (They would have been pulled part under those high-speed centrifugal forces), the supposed connection of Saddam to 9-11, the grainy photos of ... nothing really ... some of the most elaborate confabulations tied together with the thinnest strings of "maybes" and "possiblies". But the reason why I knew it was ALL bullshit was the rapidly-shifting narrative, the increasing emotional immediacy ("west, east, north, south somewhat of Baghdad", video clips of nuclear explosions "because you don't want the smoking gun to be this") the unwillingness to wait for Hans Blix to collect definitive evidence ... --------- Does any of that sound familiar? Just OOC, JO, what did you think about our invasion of Afghanistan? Of Iraq? How did you feel about our destruction of Libya? If at any point in our rampage through the Middle East, did you start out agreeing and then possibly change your mind? And if you did, why did you start out with one idea and wind up with another? If you've learned anything from experience and history, what did you learn?
Sunday, July 23, 2017 10:00 AM
Quote:Originally posted by 1kiki: I'm reposting this from a different thread because I think it's instructive regarding how people are stampeded.
Sunday, July 23, 2017 11:07 AM
Quote:I'm reposting this from a different thread because I think it's instructive regarding how people are stampeded. - KIKI It is very instructive that you take Trump's word as Truth- SECOND
Quote:"Believe me when I say I had nothing to do with Russia. Believe me!" -- Donald J Trump.- SECOND
Sunday, July 23, 2017 11:50 AM
Quote:Originally posted by SIGNYM: Quote:I'm reposting this from a different thread because I think it's instructive regarding how people are stampeded. - KIKI It is very instructive that you take Trump's word as Truth- SECOND It is very instructive that you lie about KIKI, again. What are you - GSTRING's sock puppet? Why do you have to be so offensive? (I'm just returning the favor. Next time, don't be a jerk and you won't get an insult as the first part of the reply. Capisce?) Quote:"Believe me when I say I had nothing to do with Russia. Believe me!" -- Donald J Trump.- SECOND And this is a perfect example of how you've allowed YOUR thoughts to become "kettled" by the media.
Sunday, July 23, 2017 12:28 PM
Sunday, July 23, 2017 1:31 PM
Sunday, July 23, 2017 1:35 PM
Quote:I'm reposting this from a different thread because I think it's instructive regarding how people are stampeded. - KIKI It is very instructive that you take Trump's word as Truth- SECOND It is very instructive that you lie about KIKI, again. What are you - GSTRING's sock puppet? Why do you have to be so offensive? (I'm just returning the favor. Next time, don't be a jerk and you won't get an insult as the first part of the reply. Capisce?)- SIGNY It makes more sense that Signym, who posed as a Republican Trump supporter, supports Trump [more??] than 1kiki, who posed last year as a Bernie supporter, this morning on this thread supporting Trump. But I don't believe either one of you are who you are presenting yourselves as. There is the stink of insincerity from both Signym and 1kiki. - SECOND
Sunday, July 23, 2017 1:40 PM
Sunday, July 23, 2017 2:30 PM
Quote:Originally posted by SIGNYM: There is more than an aroma of asshole coming from SECOND. I've been very open about what I do, regionally where I live, my family situation, and my politics, and I have a 15-year-long history here for you to peruse, if you REALLY want to know what I think about things instead of lying about my identity. But of course, you would never look for FACTS, because you would be proven to be a big fat liar about me, as you are about most things.
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