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Originally posted by 6STRINGJOKER:
Your buddy is an engineer. He's obviously not stupid.

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Give the fucking prez a chance to do good...

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...or to screw things up,

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Originally posted by second:Trump needs to get more self-control right now, this very day, not some months into his term.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:All of the people that I know who voted for Trump, including myself, voted for Trump on limited grounds,

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The people that I know who voted for Trump are university-educated technical people who are for the most part immigrants, half of whom are women.

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Originally posted by G:
How do those immigrants feel now? Where are they from?

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Originally posted by JO753:

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Originally posted by second:Trump needs to get more self-control right now, this very day, not some months into his term.

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Therez sumthing to be sed for letting him screw up.

The bigger he screwz up the faster he gets kicked out and the more damaj he duz to the GoPs.

The problem iz that he iz also damajing the country, so will getting the GoPs out uv power in the next election be worth the damaj?

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DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.7532020.com

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How do those immigrants feel now? Where are they from?-G

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Bad lojik. We dont get to ajust the power setting on the Prezident.- JO

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Originally posted by G:

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Originally posted by second:
In keeping with the theme “Is Trump Nuts?” some people have sensed that Trump is a megalomaniac, along with his other shining qualities.

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Priceless image for some reason I am reminded of the giant statue Caligula had made of himself. Every day some of his minions would dress it in the exact same outfit he was wearing for the day. Trump's second term maybe?

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Trump's muslim ban doesn't bother them as immigrants or as free thinking Americans? -G

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Are you their manager btw? I know when I was an employee I was not always *frank* with my employer.

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Trump's muslim ban doesn't bother them as immigrants or as free thinking Americans? -G

Apparently not! - SIGNY

They're fine with people being banned from this country based on their religion and country of origin? And even if the stated reason is provably, quantifiably inaccurate?- G

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
So, my issues were:

1) No more free trade agreements

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2) Make nice with Russia. This is for OUR benefit, not theirs.

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3) End illegal immigration,

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
They feel GREAT! They are frum Russia! Wow, Jo. Talk about making things up. And I gotta ask - what does that have to do with REAL world events?

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Sorry if I havent replied with much substans over the last few daze. Bizzy with too much stuff. - JO

So, my issues were:
1) No more free trade agreements- SIGNY

Hav you read the TPP?

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I havent. I hear alot uv scorn, but no detailz on why its bad.

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I think NAFTA soured everybody on trade dealz for the forseeable future.

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A better idea iz to regulate companyz that do international biz, such az requiring them to pay forin workerz at least haf uv wut American equivelents get. -JO

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Even tho it meanz higher prisez on sum stuff, it either makes it cheaper to keep jobz here or creates more customerz around the world. -JO

2) Make nice with Russia. This is for OUR benefit, not theirs.- SIGNY

Soooo... Let Putin do wutever he wants in other countryz? - JO

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Duznt sound like such a good stratejy for dealing with a bad guy. Hiz type ALWAYZ goez az far az you allow them. If he believed the US woudnt interfere
he woud restore the Soviet Union 1 nation at a time. - JO

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I agree that being on good termz iz better, but it cant be at the expens uv other countryz.- JO

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3) End illegal immigration,- SIGNY

Its not like Hillary wuz calling for the border with Mexico to be dizzolved, so you essentially voted for the construction uv a wall that any competent arkitekt will estimate at 25,000,000,000 American dollarez minimum.

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A big differens between Hillary and Donald iz competens for the job. Trump haz zero, Hillary haz decadez worth uv direct experiens. =JP

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Say wut you want about her polisyz (az perseived) but we coud hav depended on her to at least know wut the hell the job iz. - JO

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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Trump's muslim ban doesn't bother them as immigrants or as free thinking Americans? -G

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Apparently not!

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Has no one thought that Trump's tweets might be deliberate red herrings? Heck, look at the reward: For a mere 140 characters, or less, he gets people squawking and losing feathers for days!

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Originally posted by THGRRI:
As president there is a price to pay and he is paying it. Which is why you are stuck defending him so much.

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https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/clintons-stance-on-immigration
-is-a-major-break-from-obama/2016/03/10/6388a1f8-e700-11e5-a6f3-21ccdbc5f74e_story.html?utm_term=.0e0ed4897948
Hillary Clinton’s pledge not to deport any illegal immigrants except violent criminals and terrorists represents a major break from President Obama, and it could vastly increase the number of people who would be allowed to stay in the country.

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https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/immigration-reform/
As president, Hillary will:
Introduce comprehensive immigration reform. Hillary will introduce comprehensive immigration reform with a pathway to full and equal citizenship within her first 100 days in office.

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http://ktla.com/2017/03/09/illegal-border-crossings-down-40-percent-in
-february-dhs-secretary-says/
Illegal Border Crossings Down 40 Percent in February, CBP Report Says

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:No, and not the TTIP either but that's because they've kept it a secret.

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NAFTA has a lot of problems, mostly economic, on BOTH ends of any trade.

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A better idea iz to regulate companyz that do international biz, such az requiring them to pay forin workerz at least haf uv wut American equivelents get. -JO

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How do you enforce that?

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JO .... WHO has killed more people and destroyed more nations in the past 20 years or so? Us? Or Russia?

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If they're so afraid of Russia, how about they look towards their own defense? It's not like they can't form their own alliances.

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Also, increasing ICE and Border Patrol staffing, enforcing our immigration laws, improving visa-holder tracking, and ending or reducing H1B-style visa issuances.

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Yes, she has decades of experience being a Saudi-promoting, war-mongering, corrupt globalist bitch. Who wants "experience" like THAT?

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Originally posted by JO753:

US. And yet we are still sumhow the good guyz!

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https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/clintons-stance-on-immigration
-is-a-major-break-from-obama/2016/03/10/6388a1f8-e700-11e5-a6f3-21ccdbc5f74e_story.html?utm_term=.0e0ed4897948
Hillary Clinton’s pledge not to deport any illegal immigrants except violent criminals and terrorists represents a major break from President Obama, and it could vastly increase the number of people who would be allowed to stay in the country.

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https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/immigration-reform/
As president, Hillary will:
Introduce comprehensive immigration reform. Hillary will introduce comprehensive immigration reform with a pathway to full and equal citizenship within her first 100 days in office.

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http://ktla.com/2017/03/09/illegal-border-crossings-down-40-percent-in
-february-dhs-secretary-says/
Illegal Border Crossings Down 40 Percent in February, CBP Report Says

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Originally posted by JO753:
It woud take a lot uv illegal immigrants with bad intentionz many yirz to do the damaj Putin can do in a few fone callz.

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Originally posted by 1kiki:

SECOND

If you believe ILLEGAL immigration is a problem, Trump might be crazy like a fox.

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Originally posted by G:
. . . obviously his becoming president was proof there were plenty of *cough* uninformed people in the world ready to believe a compulsive liar

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Originally posted by 6STRINGJOKER:
Anybody else here think we're missing the bigger picture?

I'm not really comfortable with all of these people going to their twitter accounts. It's one thing when celebs do it, but am I the only one that's not very comfortable with public officials paid for with our tax dollars doing it?

I very much include Trump in there too.

They're all acting like little kids.

It's a strange new world we're living in today. Buckle up... It's only going to get stranger.

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Originally posted by 6STRINGJOKER:
I'm not talking Trump vs Obama on tweets, and I'm not even going to get sucked into that argument.

I don't think any of them should be tweeting.

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Originally posted by 1kiki:

SECOND
If you believe ILLEGAL immigration is a problem, Trump might be crazy like a fox.

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Originally posted by second:
If illegal aliens will be deported, Trump needs a plan that makes sense and money from Congress to fuel his plan.

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So you have cut down on illegals - check. What's it going to be like when the only way to get a vegetable or a piece of fruit is to pick yourself?

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how much credibility will the president have left to persuade the country of what has happened

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Originally posted by 1kiki:

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So you have cut down on illegals - check. What's it going to be like when the only way to get a vegetable or a piece of fruit is to pick yourself?

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International agribusiness gets diminished? Slave labor goes bye-bye? Those are good things. Don't you agree?

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We are in danjer uv learning the hard way wut happenz wen the Nation'z polisyz colide with reality.

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I recall that legally laboring in Mexico is far worse than illegally laboring in the USA.

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Originally posted by 1kiki:

Besides, they've been ignoring the democrats and the chattering class for a while, and both lost any remaining semblance of credibility during the last election, with Hillary as a candidate, and her media-predicted cruise to victory.

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Originally posted by 1kiki:

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I recall that legally laboring in Mexico is far worse than illegally laboring in the USA.

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Cite?
And I have to ask - do you think the US is responsible for the internal policies of Mexico, which is a democracy?

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No, and not the TTIP either but that's because they've kept it a secret. - SIGNY

seeekrrriiiittt! https://ustr.gov/ttip= JO

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a summary of U.S. objectives, negotiating round and public forum information, T-TIP blog posts, facts sheets, reports, and press releases.

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The European Commission is making the secret Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP) trade deal even more secret, introducing a new rule that means politicians can only view the text in a secure 'reading room' in Brussels. ...

It's not just TTIP that is taking such extreme measures. The US-Asia equivalent, the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP), has a similar super-secure reading room.

Robert Smith, host of the Planet Money podcast on NPR, said: "In Washington DC they love secrecy, but even by Washington standards this amazed me. In the basement of the US capitol, there is a room, a locked soundproof room, and the only people allowed in this room are US senators, and they can't bring their assistants, they can't bring their phones, they can't even take notes in there. Inside this room is not the codes for our nuclear weapons, it's not CIA files, it's not the documents that tell us an alien landed in Roswell. No, in this room is the text of a trade deal."

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NAFTA has a lot of problems, mostly economic, on BOTH ends of any trade.- SIGNY

Take away all the partisan noize and you can see the real bad guy. Big corporationz, especially oil, hav been raping & pilajing forever, long befor NAFTA. Capitalizm haz a dark side - its alwayz trying to get away with sum sort uv cheat. Its like this iz wut they teach in bizness skool!

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A better idea iz to regulate companyz that do international biz, such az requiring them to pay forin workerz at least haf uv wut American equivelents get. -JO

How do you enforce that? - SIGNY

The simpl way iz to require all payroll recordz to be submitted along with their inkum tax filingz. Naturally, if they are dealing with forin vendorz, it gets much more complicated.- JO

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JO .... WHO has killed more people and destroyed more nations in the past 20 years or so? Us? Or Russia? - SIGNY

US. And yet we are still sumhow the good guyz! - JO-

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A useful way uv looking at it iz that Goverment iz a mob. All goverments. It haz to be the most powerful mob in its own land and it helps if its the most powerful in its rejun. In the case uv the US, Russia and China, that rejun iz the entire planet.

A mob that lets it's rivalz expand or increase their power in any way without at least keeping close attention iz doomed. If therez a way to keep a rival from getting stronger, it iz foolish to not uze it. - JO

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If they're so afraid of Russia, how about they look towards their own defense? It's not like they can't form their own alliances.- SIGNY

Seriously bad plan frum the US perspectiv. Seriously bad for the entire world. The only beneficiaryz woud be the armz manufacturerz. - JO

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Also, increasing ICE and Border Patrol staffing, enforcing our immigration laws, improving visa-holder tracking, and ending or reducing H1B-style visa issuances.- SIGNY

The immigration system iz krap. Total krap. The GoPs blocked Obama frum fixing it and you want to blame Hillary? - JO

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Yes, she has decades of experience being a Saudi-promoting, war-mongering, corrupt globalist bitch. Who wants "experience" like THAT? - SIGNY

You like to pin everything bad that you can think uv on Hillary and uze it az an excuse for voting for Trump. You dont seem to hav a good handl on how important the job uv Prezident iz and how rediculously unqualified he iz for it. - JO

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Dont forget the title uv this topic and that the ansr iz YES!- JO

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Cite my ass.

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How much land did the USA rob from Mexico?

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The USA violently turned Mexico into what it is today with the self-interested decedents of the Conquistadors running it for their personal benefit.

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
Besides, they've been ignoring the democrats and the chattering class for a while, and both lost any remaining semblance of credibility during the last election, with Hillary as a candidate, and her media-predicted cruise to victory.

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Originally posted by second:
You still harping on that same old story? What's his name, Bernie, lost by millions of votes in the Democratic primary. In the general election he would have looked like a Commie and been annihilated, same as George McGovern was by Nixon, even after Nixon's "secret" plan to win the Vietnam War had achieved nothing for four years. And Watergate.

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

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CBS News Exit Polls: How Donald Trump won the U.S. presidency

by Stanley Feldman and Melissa Herrmann

Many observers thought this presidential election would be decided by Donald Trump’s polarizing rhetoric, his history of behavior toward women and his questionable qualifications for the office.

Instead, CBS News exit polls suggest Trump’s win was in large part a repudiation of Hillary Clinton by a substantial number of white voters. While Clinton did win big majorities of minority voters, she did not get the level of support from those groups that she needed to overcome her deficit among white voters.

There are also indications that Clinton’s gender was a factor in the outcome. The gender gap was substantial. Trump beat Clinton by 53 percent to 41 percent among men while Clinton won among women by 54 percent to 42 percent. Four years ago, President Obama won 45 percent of men’s votes and Mitt Romney won 44 percent of women’s votes.

More telling is the gender breakdown among white voters: Trump beat Clinton among white women 53 percent to 43 percent. This was close to Romney’s margin in 2012. While Mr. Obama won 35 percent of white, male voters in 2012, Clinton lost to Trump among this group by 63 percent to 31 percent.

As expected, Trump did best among white voters without a college degree, beating Clinton by the enormous margin of 72 percent to 23 percent. Trump also won among white, non-college women 62 to 34 percent and white college-educated men, 54 to 39 percent. Among white voters, Clinton only won among women with a college degree by a 51 to 45 percent margin. Interestingly, among white voters, there is no evidence in the exit poll that income affected the likelihood that they supported Trump.

Clinton needed extremely strong support from African-American voters to try to offset Trump’s margin among whites. She did win 88 percent of the black vote to just 8 percent for Trump. However, this was significantly lower than the 93 percent of black voters Mr. Obama won four years ago. The falloff in her share of the black vote was entirely due to black men. Clinton won among black women by a 93 percent to 4 percent margin. Among black men she won by 80 percent to 13 percent.

Many political observers thought a significant number of Republicans would either vote for Clinton, one of the third party candidates, or stay home rather than casting their votes for Trump. According to the exit polls, Republicans stayed loyal to their presidential candidate. Some 89 percent of self-described Republicans voted for Trump; 91 percent of white Republicans did. In contrast, only 84 percent of white Democrats voted for Clinton. She did win 86 percent of white Democratic women, but only 81 percent of white, Democratic men voted for her.

Surprisingly, given all of the attention to Trump’s attitudes and behavior toward women, he did virtually as well among white, Republican women (91 percent support) as he did among white, Republican men (92 percent). Clinton was more competitive among white independent women than men, losing to Trump by a 49 to 41 percent margin among independent women and by 57 to 31 percent among independent men.

The Candidates’ Personal Characteristics

These were not likable candidates who instilled a great deal of confidence in their supporters. Many voters supported one of these candidates despite significant misgivings.

The majority of voters had unfavorable impressions of both. Twelve percent of Clinton voters and 20 percent of Trump voters had an unfavorable opinion of the candidate for whom they opted. So despite their misgivings about the candidates, something still compelled them to support one of them.

Both candidates were seen as not being honest or trustworthy by more than 6 out of 10 voters. However, among white voters, 57 percent said Trump was not honest and trustworthy while fully 70 percent said the same of Clinton. Almost 3 in 10 white voters said neither candidate was honest and trustworthy. Among this group, Trump won 52 percent to Clinton’s 32 percent. 13 percent of these voters supported one of the third party candidates.

Voters in the exit polls were asked if each of the candidates was qualified to serve as president. Almost half thought Clinton was not qualified but only 5 percent of her voters thought that. Even more voters, 6 out of 10, thought Trump was not qualified to be president. Almost a quarter of Trump voters gave him their support despite saying he was not qualified.

Voters were also asked whether each candidate has the temperament to serve effectively as president. By a slim margin, 55 percent to 43 percent, voters said Clinton did have the right temperament. Sixty-three percent said Trump did not have the temperament to be president. Just over half of all white voters said both candidates did not have the right temperament. While very few of Clinton’s voters questioned her temperament, 1 in 4 Trump voters backed him while saying he did not have the temperament to be president.

Voters were asked how they would feel if Clinton were elected president and 53 percent said they would be concerned or scared. Similarly, if Trump were elected president, 58 percent said they would be concerned or scared. Among Clinton voters, 10 percent would be concerned or scared if Clinton were elected and 95 percent would be concerned scared about a Trump presidency. Interestingly, while 94 percent of Trump voters would be concerned or scared about Clinton being elected, 17 percent said they would be concerned about a President Trump.

If many people had serious doubts about both candidates, is there a way to determine how they distinguished between Clinton and Trump? In the exit polls, voters were asked whether they strongly favored their candidate, liked their candidate but with reservations, or if they voted because they disliked the other candidate. While 21 percent of Clinton voters said they disliked the other candidates, more – 28 percent – of Trump voters reported that. There appears to have been more people voting against Clinton than against Trump.

A Verdict on Major Policy Issues?

Can we say Trump did better than expected in the election because a majority of voters supported his most powerfully articulated policy positions? Exit poll voters were asked whether most illegal immigrants working in the U.S. should be offered a chance to apply for legal status or deported to the country they came from. Fully 7 of 10 voters said they should be allowed to apply for legal status. Similarly, more people opposed building a wall along the U.S. border with Mexico than supported it. And virtually as many voters (38 percent) said trade with other countries creates more U.S. jobs as said it takes away jobs (42 percent).

How did Trump win when many of his core positions were so unpopular? Some people voted for him regardless of that. Among those who favored giving illegal immigrants a chance to apply for legal status, one in three voted for Trump. Thirty-five percent of people who said international trade creates jobs voted for Trump. And even 27 percent of white voters who said they want the next president to change to more liberal policies voted for Trump.

One issue that may have motivated some white voters is the ongoing national debate over the way police treat African-Americans. The exit poll asked voters whether they think the country’s criminal justice system treats all people fairly or treats blacks unfairly. Half of white voters said blacks are treated fairly while 41 percent say they are treated unfairly. Among the first group, 8 in 10 voted for Trump. Sixty-five percent who said blacks are treated unfairly voted for Clinton.

Did Johnson and Stein Affect the Outcome?

With so many tightly contested races, the votes cast for candidates such as Gary Johnson and Jill Stein may have impacted the overall results. The exit polling asked voters they would have cast ballots for if there were only two candidates (Clinton and Trump). A quarter of Johnson voters said Clinton, 15 percent said Trump, and 55 percent said they would not have voted. Numbers were similar for Stein voters, with about a quarter saying they would have chosen Clinton, 14 percent saying Trump, and 61 percent saying they would not have voted. It is difficult to say with any certainty, but with razor thin margins in some states, a small number of voters who might have supported Clinton could have altered outcomes in some states.

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Stanley Feldman is professor of political science at Stony Brook University; Melissa Herrmann is president of SSRS

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Originally posted by second:
How much land did the USA rob from Mexico? Millions of square miles, you know, all of Texas, California, New Mexico. Having that land part of Mexico would have made Mexico a much different country.

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Originally posted by 1kiki:

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We are in danjer uv learning the hard way wut happenz wen the Nation'z polisyz colide with reality.

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We should have learned that when bin Laden went from 'dead or alive!' to less than an afterthought, in 8 months. When there were no WMDs to be found. When we bombed countries for humanitarian reasons. When Gitmo wasn't closed. When Snowden told us what our government was doing - to us.

Are you saying all the bullshit, lies, and propaganda were OK up until now? But that now, NOW! it's a problem?

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