REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

TRUMP - Just because.....................Naw, I just can't say it!

POSTED BY: SHINYGOODGUY
UPDATED: Tuesday, July 23, 2024 11:14
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 189395
PAGE 28 of 34

Tuesday, December 13, 2016 4:02 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Awwwwwwwww, lost your broomstick dear? Call 1 (800) WHOTHEFUCKGIVESASHIT


SGG


Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Can we move this to a (new) shorter thread?

Something that applies to Trump as President-elect, and not Trump the candidate? Because I guarantee you NOBODY is going to look at the previous 26 pages ... or even the previous five posts (especially yours, SECOND) no matter HOW blistering you think they are! - SIGNY

Awww, she's mad.- GSTRING
Nope, not mad.

Quote:
And funny wrong as usual.-GSTRING
Glad you think so!

Quote:
I read every one of second's posts. I look forward to every one of second's posts. You would learn a lot if you did the same.- GSTTRING
I have read SECONDRATE'S/ SECONHAND'S posts, which are usually links to someone else's posts. and what I find is that they usually consist of shocked- and inaccurate - whining. It's difficult to have a conversation about some specific thing if everyone is posting about everything: hard to locate relevant comments.

Quote:
Why move a thread? Click the thread title, go to the last page - easy even for you.= GSTRING
Because the topic isn't specific enough. I have some very specific things to say about Trump and Obama. But that's OK, I'll just start other threads about those more focused thoughts and leave this one for whatever.



-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, December 13, 2016 4:23 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Ya know, it's funny but nearly 3 million popular votes later and the CIA report of widespread Russian hacking, and we still don't have a TRUE leader,
as "president-elect" Donald Hump goes about betraying the people who voted for him, by picking billionaire cabinet members to help ruin this country.

Last legs!? Fuck, Trump is out there prepping with KY Jelly and practicing grabbing his ankles before in-auguration day. January 20th sworn in, by Jan. 21 singing a Russian lullabye to the tune of tie a yellow ribbon round my old white ass. Before Putin rips him a new one, maybe he should buy him dinner and a box of chocolates.


SGG

quote]A game show host is about to be sworn in as president of the United States and 1kiki and Signym are convinced that the Democratic Party is practically on its last legs.
That is not what the data says.


The data says she won 3 populous states with large urban areas: New York, California and Illinois. And she won a dozen or so small states. Overall, she won 17 of 50 states. To put it another way, she lost 33 of 50 states. That's pathetic. And it doesn't indicate broad popular support.

Also, as Signy pointed out, and which I've pointed out multiple times in the past - democrats have lost both houses of Congress, retain only 18 of 50 governorships, have only 15 of 49 state senates and 16 of 49 state houses. https://www.multistate.com/state-resources/governors-legislatures

AND in addition, democrats have lost significant voter share to 'independents', which, as Signy pointed out, tend to break republican.

And now democrats lost the ONE thing they had left to lose: the presidency.



I'd say things are not looking good for democrats.

How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, December 13, 2016 4:38 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Fuck the people who voted for Trump. They'll get their when he runs the country into the ground. They will be ordering consumer goods from a Russian outlet mall in Weehauken NJ.

Cites!? - proven track record. Trump has run many of his businesses into the ground and laughed all the way to the bank. He'll do America the hard way.
By the way, we've already slipped into the 7th Ring of Hell, and soon after we will be that 3rd World country you've heard about.

People of Earth, Be Afraid!


SGG


Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
So, you're going to be mad at roughly half of the United States because they didn't vote for your Annointed One?

Yanno, SECOND, after Bush stole the election for the second time, I was pretty pissed off. But not at people here who voted for Bush, and not even at the GOP for cheating, but at the Democratic Party, for not taking action when it was clear that Karl Rove stole the election the FIRST time (FL 2000).

Why did the DNC SPECIFICALLY rig the primary against Sanders? To me, that was a serious strategic blunder: If the voting results were telling the DNC that one candidate could win the primary and the polling results were telling them that same candidate had a much better chance of winning against Trump in a head-to-head, why did the DNC insist on foisting off a much less popular candidate, by hook or by crook, on its own constituency???

That kind or arrogance and entitlement is pretty breathtaking, but I can think of a few interlinked reasons why:

1) Most of Sanders donations came in small amounts, from individuals.
2) Hillary would be able to fill her "war chest" with multi-million dollar, big-ticket donations,
3) Those big donors wanted a return on their investment, which WASN'T Bernie.
4) The DNC believed they would need a lot of money to run a campaign, especially for a candidate who had a huge unfavorable rating.

What this speaks of, in the DNC, is a lack of faith in the popular vote for its own brand. The DNC deliberately turned its back on its own voters choice. The decision having been made, Debbie and Donna and John and the rest of the party apparatchiks then conspired how they were going to jam Hillary down everyone's throats.

I still have a hard time wrapping my head around that decision. Either Bernie's probable policies ... on "free trade", on Israel, on Saudi Arabia and our proxy terrorists, on the dollar, on globalism .... were going to be so different than Hillary's (her policies being known to those who get to see her "private face") that Bernie was completely and totally unacceptable to the DNC's underwriters .... or people in the DNC were getting serious kickbacks from their big-money donors. In any case, it boggles the mind.

That was the DNC's internal flaw. Externally, the DNC simply stopped representing "Americans". It made a point of slicing and dicing America into gay-Americans, female-Americans, Hispanic/Chicano-Americans, African-Americans, transgender-Americans, illegal aliens, legal immigrants etc and appealing to each slice as if they were victims (We are, but not in the way the DNC wants us to believe). But in the end, the DNC (Obama) followed policies that simply did not benefit the vast majority of Americans, where ALL of our interests overlap.

It's not just Trump, SECOND. I don't know if you noticed, but the DNC has lost a lot of Congressional seats, state Legislators, governors, and even county supervisors/commissioners, and mayors.

They're doing something seriously wrong. It's time for you to stop being mad, you need to wake up and smell the coffee. And if you are as rich as you say you are, and you have any donor-influence on the DNC, or at least Texas Democrats, then use that influence to slap them into reality.




-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

"If I could write inflammatory commentary to scorch the eye brows and lashes off Trump, Signym or 1kiki, I would.- SECOND"

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, December 13, 2016 9:57 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

I can't imagine why your panties are in such a twist. This is a GOOD thing.
Signym, see if you understand this Constitutional dilemma. Trump claims he has already started working on it, but he can't have his cake and eat it, too. What Trump tweeted is NOT a solution, no matter what he claims. To solve Trump's dilemma will take either a Supreme Court case, with all the Democrats voting against all the Republicans, or passing a major piece of legislation, with the Senate Democrats filibustering against. Or Trump could liquidate his properties, which he'd rather not.:

Trump is a walking, talking violation of the Constitution. He violates the emoluments clause, which basically says no officer of the United States can be on the receiving end of any kind of economic benefit, payment, gift, profit, whatever, from a foreign government or its corporations or agents. That includes Donald Jr. or Ivanka or Eric. Foreigners stuffing money into any of Trump’s family bank accounts, not just Donald’s, violates the emoluments clause.

Since yesterday Trump has already begun arguing that is not so: “Even though I am not mandated by law to do so, I will be leaving my businesses before January 20th so that I can focus full time on the Presidency. Two of my children, Don and Eric, plus executives, will manage them. No new deals will be done during my term(s) in office.” That’s Donald saying he will fire his daughter from the family business, but even if he fires his sons, too, and it still won’t be enough to satisfy the Constitutional requirement.
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/808528428123254785

Read the Emoluments Clause:
www.heritage.org/constitution/#!/articles/1/essays/68/emoluments-claus
e
There is an explanation of why the clause exists. It involves King Louis XVI and Ben Franklin, the ambassador to France.

Trump is a constant emolument magnet. He thinks of himself as a babe magnet, but he’s an emoluments magnet. And all around the world everybody wants to go to his hotels and not the competitors, and wants to give him a variance or a special land use permit and there’s simply no way short of absolutely liquidating all of his assets and placing the proceeds into a blind trust and not handed over to his kids or wife. No way short of that prevents him from being a walking, talking violation of the Constitution from the moment he takes the oath.


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, December 13, 2016 11:39 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:
it looks like from your comment above "I just buy what they have" that you are not a cost conscience consumer. Is that true?
No. I'm extremely frugal. If I need something and it seems pricey, I'll try to figure something else out to use instead, or go without. If I REALLY need it and it seems pricey I'll shop online. What I won't do is go from store to store to store to save $.10 on an item. Plus, I know in general which stores have the best overall prices. For groceries they're Trader Joe's and Vitamin City. For certain household goods it's Vitamin City and Target. For others it's Target and Walgreens. For first aid and sundry it's Target and Walgreens. And I go to Ace Hardware for things I can't get anywhere else. Ace is pretty expensive, but I support them as a business, because they REALLY are 'the helpful place'.

How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, December 13, 2016 12:22 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:
I can't imagine why your panties are in such a twist. This is a GOOD thing.- SIGNY

Signym, see if you understand this Constitutional dilemma.- SECOND
The Constitutional dilemma of tweeting about Lockheed Martin's F-35?

What in god's name does this have to do with ... anything? You've got a permanent knot in your undies. I mean, I know you despise Trump but your posts are just unhinged bitching. How about focusing on something real?




-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

"If I could write inflammatory commentary to scorch the eye brows and lashes off Trump, Signym or 1kiki, I would.- SECOND"

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, December 13, 2016 12:49 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Quote:
it looks like from your comment above "I just buy what they have" that you are not a cost conscience consumer. Is that true?
No. I'm extremely frugal. If I need something and it seems pricey, I'll try to figure something else out to use instead, or go without. If I REALLY need it and it seems pricey I'll shop online. What I won't do is go from store to store to store to save $.10 on an item. Plus, I know in general which stores have the best overall prices. For groceries they're Trader Joe's and Vitamin City. For certain household goods it's Vitamin City and Target. For others it's Target and Walgreens. For first aid and sundry it's Target and Walgreens. And I go to Ace Hardware for things I can't get anywhere else. Ace is pretty expensive, but I support them as a business, because they REALLY are 'the helpful place'.
You best look at the ACE Hardware labels for Chinese goods.

1kiki, I thought you and Trump were deeply concerned about factory jobs? This shows no passion whatsoever for American factory workers losing their incomes. It would be like complaining about millions of gas station attendants losing jobs to self-service gas stations than being unaware that you are buying gas at a self-service filling station solely because it is more convenient and cheaper for you.

Please, 1kiki, pay higher prices and inconvenience yourself for patriotic love of displaced American factory workers from faraway states. Factory workers east of the Mississippi will thank you . . . not. They’re not appreciative. They think you, in snooty California, owe them a living in hardworking Pennsylvania. If the production of popular items like iPhones and sneakers were done domestically rather than abroad, their prices would increase considerably.
www.businessinsider.com/how-much-products-would-cost-if-made-in-us-201
6-11/#iphones-1

www.arcamax.com/thefunnies/mothergooseandgrimm/s-1902507


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, December 13, 2016 12:55 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:
If the production of popular items like iPhones and sneakers were done domestically rather than abroad, their prices would increase considerably. - SECOND
BECAUSE WAGES TO AMERICAN WORKERS ARE HIGHER.

I guess you have a problem with that?



-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

"If I could write inflammatory commentary to scorch the eye brows and lashes off Trump, Signym or 1kiki, I would.- SECOND"

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, December 13, 2016 1:36 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
If the production of popular items like iPhones and sneakers were done domestically rather than abroad, their prices would increase considerably. - SECOND
BECAUSE WAGES TO AMERICAN WORKERS ARE HIGHER.

I guess you have a problem with that?
If you aren't aware, Texans don't have much concern for the well-being of Yankees or Californians, even Yankee factory workers in Indiana, especially if Texans have to pay higher prices to create factory jobs in California or the Midwest. It is all about doing what is right for your own state, not some state that is four or five state borders away. That is why the USA didn't end up being called the One State of America, with a single BIG star on the flag.





NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, December 13, 2016 8:59 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


How Putin got his pet game show host elected president

by Kevin Drum, Dec. 13, 2016 6:24 PM

Over lunch I read today's big New York Times story about the Russian cyberattacks aimed at disrupting the US election. It was mesmerizing even though I already knew a lot of it, and it was also depressing as hell.

www.nytimes.com/2016/12/13/us/politics/russia-hack-election-dnc.html

By the time I finished, I was pretty close to thinking that the right response would be a couple dozen cruise missiles aimed straight at Putin's lone remaining aircraft carrier. I guess we're all lucky I'm not the president.

There are a dozen depressing things I could highlight, but somehow I found this the most depressing of all:

"By last summer, Democrats watched in helpless fury as their private emails and confidential documents appeared online day after day — procured by Russian intelligence agents, posted on WikiLeaks and other websites, then eagerly reported on by the American media, including The Times....Every major publication, including The Times, published multiple stories citing the D.N.C. and Podesta emails posted by WikiLeaks, becoming a de facto instrument of Russian intelligence."

I know: news is news. Somehow, though, that doesn't seem sufficient. I'm still not entirely sure what the right response is to leaks like this, but simply publishing everything no matter where it came from or what its motivation no longer seems tenable. There has to be something more to editorial judgment than that.

Anyway, Putin won this round. He didn't do it all by himself —— he had plenty of help from the FBI and the media —— but in the end, he got his pet game show host elected president of the United States. I hope we all live through it.

www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2016/12/how-putin-got-his-pet-game-show
-host-elected-president

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, December 14, 2016 1:25 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:
Saturday, December 10, 2016 1:50 AM Originally posted by 1kiki:
http://www.today.com/parents/one-moms-challenge-buy-only-made-usa-one-
week-857929
One mom's challenge: Buy only "Made in USA" for one week
Quote:
Tuesday, December 13, 2016 12:49 PM Originally posted by second:
You best look at the ACE Hardware labels for Chinese goods.
Quote:
Wednesday, December 14, 2016 1:25 AM Originally posted by 1kiki:
http://www.today.com/parents/one-moms-challenge-buy-only-made-usa-one-
week-857929
One mom's challenge: Buy only "Made in USA" for one week


How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, December 14, 2016 2:04 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:
If you aren't aware, Texans don't have much concern for the well-being of Yankees or Californians ...
Are you speaking for yourself? Assuming you are a Texan as you claim, of course.

How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, December 14, 2016 7:41 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Quote:
If you aren't aware, Texans don't have much concern for the well-being of Yankees or Californians ...
Are you speaking for yourself? Assuming you are a Texan as you claim, of course.
Does it disturb 1kiki's view of Americans that Texans don't feel that Trump voters in West Virginians are family? And Texans won't willing pay more to create jobs for people they never met in states that are far away? That is what Trump is promising: to create jobs in rundown states at the expense of people in states that are booming.

I actually saw people on TV in a coal-mining town that voted 80% for Trump say that they are forgotten by the rest of the country. I'd tell them you can't forget somebody you never knew. Maybe the Trump voter meant "ignored"?

The same Trump people from that small, rundown coal town also said that because coal built America the rest of Americans owes W Virginians for all the coal they once-upon-time dug from the ground. Those Trump voters, even though they think Texas owes them still more, were already paid and they don't deserve to be paid again and again for coal that was burned years ago. But Trump voters can't see it the way it is.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, December 14, 2016 7:43 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Much would be made of blue-collar voters in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and Michigan who’d pulled the lever for Obama in 2008 and 2012 and then for Trump in 2016. Surely these voters disproved racism as an explanatory force. It’s still not clear how many individual voters actually flipped. But the underlying presumption—that Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama could be swapped in for each other—exhibited a problem. Clinton was a candidate who’d won one competitive political race in her life, whose political instincts were questioned by her own advisers, who took more than half a million dollars in speaking fees from an investment bank because it was “what they offered,” who proposed to bring back to the White House a former president dogged by allegations of rape and sexual harassment. Obama was a candidate who’d become only the third black senator in the modern era; who’d twice been elected president, each time flipping red and purple states; who’d run one of the most scandal-free administrations in recent memory. Imagine an African American facsimile of Hillary Clinton: She would never be the nominee of a major political party and likely would not be in national politics at all.

Pointing to citizens who voted for both Obama and Trump does not disprove racism; it evinces it. To secure the White House, Obama needed to be a Harvard-trained lawyer with a decade of political experience and an incredible gift for speaking to cross sections of the country; Donald Trump needed only money and white bluster.

www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/01/my-president-was-black/50
8793/

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, December 14, 2016 7:53 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:
Originally posted by second:
If you aren't aware, Texans don't have much concern for the well-being of Yankees or Californians ...
Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Are you speaking for yourself? Assuming you are a Texan as you claim, of course.
Quote:
Does it disturb 1kiki's view of Americans that Texans don't feel that Trump voters in West Virginians are family?
Can you answer the question?

How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, December 14, 2016 7:55 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:
Saturday, December 10, 2016 1:50 AM Originally posted by 1kiki:
http://www.today.com/parents/one-moms-challenge-buy-only-made-usa-one-
week-857929
One mom's challenge: Buy only "Made in USA" for one week
Quote:
Tuesday, December 13, 2016 12:49 PM Originally posted by second:
You best look at the ACE Hardware labels for Chinese goods.
Quote:
Wednesday, December 14, 2016 1:25 AM Originally posted by 1kiki:
http://www.today.com/parents/one-moms-challenge-buy-only-made-usa-one-
week-857929
One mom's challenge: Buy only "Made in USA" for one week


Can you address the topic?

How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, December 14, 2016 8:04 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:

Can you answer the question?
How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?
Your questions aren't interesting to me, except the last one about how the democrats fucked up. I have a partial answer from "The Most Epic Ratfucking Operation in History".
www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2016/12/russia-ran-most-epic-ratfucking
-operation-history-year

The basic story here is simple: the Russians hacked, the media gave the revelations big play, and Republicans gleefully made use of the Russian agitprop. Altogether, the Russians released hacked documents from four different sources:

DNC
DCCC
The Clinton Foundation
John Podesta

But nothing was ever released from any Republican sources—despite the fact that, according to the New York Times, the Russians had hacked the RNC and possibly other Republican accounts as well. If I had to guess, I'd say there's a good chance they hacked a few people at the Trump Organization too. So here's where we are:

The Russians ran a very sophisticated operation designed to hack into both US government servers and the servers of US political organizations.

They released only hacked documents from Democratic organizations. Republicans were left alone.

The intelligence community told high-ranking leaders of both parties what was going on, but Republicans flatly opposed any public acknowledgment of what was happening. I add that Trump is the LOUDEST denier that Russia was involved.

Republicans cheerfully made use of all the hacked material, even though they knew exactly where it came from.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, December 14, 2016 8:09 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


As I've claimed all along, after democrats lose the presidency, the country's ability to retain much of the agenda put in place over the decades will depend on senate democrats being the 'party of no'. How much do you trust senate democrats to take up the role?


http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/14/opinion/buck-up-democrats-and-fight-
like-republicans.html

Buck Up, Democrats, and Fight Like Republicans

On Monday, members of the Electoral College will vote in Donald J. Trump as president. Though he lost the election by nearly three million votes and almost daily generates headlines about new scandals, the Democratic Party is doing little to stop him. If you’ve been asking yourself “Where are the Democrats?” you’re not alone.

Since the election, top Democrats have been almost absent on the national stage. Rather, they have been involved largely in internecine warfare about how much to work with Mr. Trump. The Hillary Clinton campaign, trying to encourage a peaceful transition, has gone almost completely dark, with her most notable appearances coming in selfies with strangers. Nobody deserves downtime more than Mrs. Clinton, but while she is decompressing, the country is moving toward its biggest electoral mistake in history.

There’s no shortage of legal theories that could challenge Mr. Trump’s anointment, but they come from outsiders rather than the Democratic Party. Impassioned citizens have been pleading with electors to vote against Mr. Trump; law professors have argued that winner-take-all laws for electoral votes are unconstitutional; a small group, the Hamilton Electors, is attempting to free electors to vote their consciences; and a new theory has arisen that there is legal precedent for courts to give the election to Mrs. Clinton based on Russian interference. All of these efforts, along with the grass-roots protests, boycotts and petitions, have been happening without the Democratic Party. The most we’ve seen is a response to the C.I.A. revelations, but only with Republicans onboard to give Democrats bipartisan cover.

Take the recount efforts in Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin. While the Democratic Party relitigates grudges in the press, Jill Stein, the Green Party candidate who received about 64 million fewer votes than Mrs. Clinton, has led the effort. The Democrats have grudgingly participated from the sidelines, but only because public perception forced them to. This effort has proved feeble, with a Pennsylvania judge denying the request because it was “later than last minute.”

Fast forward to 2016, and the Democrats ... are leaving the fight to academics and local organizers who seem more horrified by a Trump presidency than Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama and the Democratic Party. The Republicans in 2000 threw everything they could muster against the wall to see if it stuck, with no concern about potential blowback; the Democrats in 2016 are apparently too worried about being called sore losers. Instead of weathering the criticism that comes with fighting an uphill, yet historically important battle, the party is still trying to magic up a plan.



This aligns with my observation to date.

Are democrats spineless? They could be. Or tptb have told top democrats to stand down, and democrats - dutifully - are obeying the people they truly represent.



How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, December 14, 2016 8:17 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Can you answer the question?
Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Your questions aren't interesting to me, except the last one about how the democrats fucked up. I have a partial answer from "The Most Epic Ratfucking Operation in History".
Is that how democrats lost congress, and 33 out of all 50 governorships, state senates and state houses, mostly back in 2010? Is that how democrats lost voter-identification since 1982? Did democrats end up like this due to a giant Russian ratfucking operation being run since 1982?

How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, December 14, 2016 8:42 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:

Are democrats spineless? They could be. Or tptb have told top democrats to stand down, and democrats - dutifully - are obeying the people they truly represent.
The Democrats believe too strongly that the people have spoken. It is such a passive way to look at politics. Republicans believe that people can be bent to will of the GOP, if the party puts enough force into the effort. It is a very energetic way to look at voting and the Democratic Party can't go there, to the place where the GOP will go in every election. It is a life-and-death struggle for the GOP, while the Democrats see it as some kind of televised tennis match at Wimbledon. That needs an example:

The Democrats have a chance of preventing Trump from winning by using all the Democratic Electoral College electors to vote for Romney. If 37 Republican electors go along, then Republicans win the White House, except it isn't Trump. (Trump in 2016 did poorly compared to Romney in 2012.) Hillary won't do it because it is not sporting, it feels like cheating, it doesn't follow the will of the people. Hillary would have some weak excuse, except she hasn't even acknowledged the idea exists. The GOP would do it in a second if the tables were turned.
www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/democrats-can-use-the-electoral-colleg
e-to-stop-trump-but-not-how-you-think/2016/12/05/c69bb24e-ba86-11e6-94ac-3d324840106c_story.html

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, December 14, 2016 9:23 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Good Grief, It's A Charlie Brown Christmas Special!
Who won Santa's vote for President?



The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, December 14, 2016 10:02 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:

Is that how democrats lost congress, and 33 out of all 50 governorships, state senates and state houses, mostly back in 2010? Is that how democrats lost voter-identification since 1982? Did democrats end up like this due to a giant Russian ratfucking operation being run since 1982?
1kiki, you could just as easily ask why nobody did anything to protect Blacks after Southern Reconstruction collapsed in 1877 until 1964. My answer would be that the vast majority of Americans between 1877 and 1964 did NOT share the values of 2016's Democratic Party toward blacks.

Keeping with the same theme and choosing one item out of many where the Democratic Party's values are different than the majority of Americans: the vast majority of Americans in 2016 do NOT share the values of today's Democratic Party toward blacks. The vast majority is nothing like Bernie, for example. That is why Democrats are a minority party and why Bernie would not have won, except in New England states and the West Coast. There was no chance Bernie would win in the Confederate States, especially against a guy like Trump, who LOUDLY insists he is not a racist.

Since Dems and Reps both claim to be not racist, it is very controversial to claim Dems are a minority party because the majority of Americans are racist. Let's compare food, instead. More than two-thirds (68.8 percent) of adults are considered to be overweight or obese. Almost 3 in 4 men (74 percent) are considered to be overweight or obese. I see an advantage for Republicans! Trump of the deep-fried taco bowl and 20-ounce Porterhouse fame represents the majority of Americans. It is the Democrats championing the healthy food movement. That is a losing strategy for Democrats. Republicans will give the people what they want and tell them to eat as much as they please. That is what a winning political strategy looks like.

I could keep going with solid explanations of why Democrats are a minority party. One more: Democrats say that coal produces greenhouses gases that affect climate. That is a losing political idea. Republicans say greenhouses gases don't change climate. That is a winning political idea with coal-miners. People who aren't coal-miners (except for climate scientists) don't care but very little about what nonsense Republicans say about climate, which is a win for Republicans.

Hacked documents were showing up in local races all over the country
www.nytimes.com/2016/12/13/us/politics/house-democrats-hacking-dccc.ht
ml

The intrusions in House races in states including Pennsylvania, New Hampshire, Ohio, Illinois, New Mexico and North Carolina can be traced to tens of thousands of pages of documents taken from the D.C.C.C., which shares a Capitol Hill office building with the Democratic National Committee....The seats that Guccifer 2.0 targeted in the document dumps were hardly random: They were some of the most competitive House races in the country.

....In Florida, Guccifer 2.0’s most important partner was an obscure political website run by an anonymous blogger called HelloFLA!, run by a former Florida legislative aide turned Republican lobbyist. The blogger sent direct messages via Twitter to Guccifer 2.0 asking for copies of any additional Florida documents. “I can send you some docs via email,” Guccifer 2.0 replied on Aug. 22....“I don’t think you realize what you gave me,” the blogger said, looking at the costly internal D.C.C.C. political research that he had just been provided. “This is probably worth millions of dollars.”

The hacked documents played a big role in a Florida congressional primary between Annette Taddeo and Joe Garcia:

After Mr. Garcia defeated Ms Taddeo in the primary using the material unearthed in the hacking, the National Republican Campaign Committee and a second Republican group with ties to the House speaker, Paul Ryan, turned to the hacked material to attack him.

....After the first political advertisement appeared using the hacked material, [DCCC chair Ben Ray] Luján wrote a letter to his Republican counterpart at the National Republican Congressional Committee urging him to not use this stolen material in the 2016 campaign....Ms. Pelosi sent a similar letter in early September to Mr. Ryan. Neither received a response. By October, the Congressional Leadership Fund, a “super PAC” tied to Mr. Ryan, had used the stolen material in another advertisement, attacking Mr. Garcia during the general election in Florida.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, December 14, 2016 11:34 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


SECOND:

A large majority of Americans shared the "value" that there should be single payer, or at least government option, for healthcare.

A majority of Americans shared the value that we should stop meddling in the Mideast.

A large majority of Americans disagreed with the bank bailout, and wanted to see real consequences - yanno, like jail time (such as happened under Reagan when the S&L's went tits up) - for the cretins who drove our financial system into the ditch.

If the Democrats has had the spine to actually DO those things, and to make the "recovery" a recovery for everyone, and at least not lose more manufacturing jobs, the Dems would have had a loyal following for decades. But the Dem party's values are mostly about money, and a large part of the remainder is about being a war party, so they ignored what a lot of people wanted. So they deserve to be where they are: busted, after eight years of failure.

Where do they go from here? If Trump is going to be such as ass-kisser to business, if Americans don't see a measurable improvement in their lives, if the wealth gap (which has grown under both Bush AND Obama) continues to grow under Trump ... will the Dems be ready to pick up the pieces? Or will they offer "more of the same", like they did this past year?

Because if all we get is more, and more, and MORE of the same, there will no longer be a Democratic OR a Republican Party remaining.






-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

"If I could write inflammatory commentary to scorch the eye brows and lashes off Trump, Signym or 1kiki, I would.- SECOND"

Hillary knew all about the Electoral College when she ran for office. All of this after-the-fact bitching is still just an attempt to rewrite history. I guess you're all still in various stages of grief, including anger, denial, and bargaining, all rol

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, December 14, 2016 2:01 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
SECOND:

A large majority of Americans shared the "value" that there should be single payer, or at least government option, for healthcare.
That opinion needs a little proof behind it, Signym. Americans don't even support Obamacare. If they don't qualify for it, they don't want anyone else to have it, either. And they certainly don't want to pay the $1 trillion it costs over 10 years.
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
SECOND:

A majority of Americans shared the value that we should stop meddling in the Mideast.
I will believe that, Signym, when I see protests on the streets of America for the way Israel treats 1.75 million people like prisoners of war in the Gaza Strip. Didn't you also notice that American Christians back the Jewish Israelis 100% against all Muslims in the world? Didn’t you notice that Americans were okay with invading Iraq, based on obviously, at the time, false rumors of WMD? Americans only turned against that war when the US Army lost control of Iraq in a typical Bush SNAFU. And as far as I know, no Americans are protesting any other war anywhere in the world, not just the Middle East.
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
SECOND:

A large majority of Americans disagreed with the bank bailout, and wanted to see real consequences - yanno, like jail time (such as happened under Reagan when the S&L's went tits up) - for the cretins who drove our financial system into the ditch.
You forgot Enron and "Bernie" Madoff. Those people got hammered by government because they stole money. The bank bailouts were not about stolen money. Those were caused by Bush and the SEC not wanting to impose "unnecessary" regulations on banks. The SEC let any old risky securities to go on sale. The only people punished were the auditors who gave AAA ratings to junk securities.

Wall Street tycoons are not in fear of being kidnapped, ransomed, or assassinated for what they have done. If there is even a single American Madman out there who has avenged Main Street for what Wall Street did, I never heard of him. Since not even one crazy American cares, why should politicians? Especially since tycoons have got all the legal help they will ever need to defend themselves from the Justice Department.
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
SECOND:

If the Democrats has had the spine to actually DO those things, and to make the "recovery" a recovery for everyone, and at least not lose more manufacturing jobs, the Dems would have had a loyal following for decades. But the Dem party's values are mostly about money, and a large part of the remainder is about being a war party, so they ignored what a lot of people wanted. So they deserve to be where they are: busted, after eight years of failure.
President Obama signed the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act — the “stimulus” — into law. It helped end the economy’s plunge; it saved millions of jobs.

It was also a political disaster. And the consequences of that political disaster — the perception that stimulus failed — have haunted economic policy ever since.
www.nytimes.com/2014/02/21/opinion/krugman-the-stimulus-tragedy.html

Republican Mitch McConnell of Kentucky did what he could to prevent a recovery. Did anybody in America punch McConnell’s funny-looking face for what he and the Republicans did? By the way, none those bastards have Secret Service protection. Anybody in Kentucky, if they cared, could hit McConnell. Never happened.
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Where do they go from here? If Trump is going to be such as ass-kisser to business, if Americans don't see a measurable improvement in their lives, if the wealth gap (which has grown under both Bush AND Obama) continues to grow under Trump ... will the Dems be ready to pick up the pieces? Or will they offer "more of the same", like they did this past year?

Because if all we get is more, and more, and MORE of the same, there will no longer be a Democratic OR a Republican Party remaining.
Half of Americans are apathetic whiners who can’t do a thing except vote once every two to four years. The other half of them won’t even vote. That half are complete whiners. It is no surprise that those losers get ignored by politicians, but the top 1%, the energetic people who know whose arm to twist, always get their way.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, December 15, 2016 12:55 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:
A large majority of Americans shared the "value" that there should be single payer, or at least government option, for healthcare.- SIGNY

That opinion needs a little proof behind it, Signym. Americans don't even support Obamacare. - SECOND
I can't help it if you;re an ignoramus. Poll after poll taken at the beginning of Obama's term said so. They WOULD have supported single payer because it stood a much better chance of working than Obama's boondoggle.
Quote:
If they don't qualify for it, they don't want anyone else to have it, either.
Everyone would have qualified. That's the beauty of single payer.

Quote:
A majority of Americans shared the value that we should stop meddling in the Mideast.-SIGNY

I will believe that, Signym, when I see protests on the streets of America for the way Israel treats 1.75 million people like prisoners of war in the Gaza Strip. Didn't you also notice that American Christians back the Jewish Israelis 100% against all Muslims in the world? Didn’t you notice that Americans were okay with invading Iraq, based on obviously, at the time, false rumors of WMD? Americans only turned against that war when the US Army lost control of Iraq in a typical Bush SNAFU. And as far as I know, no Americans are protesting any other war anywhere in the world, not just the Middle East.- SECOND


Protests against the Iraq war

Quote:
A large majority of Americans disagreed with the bank bailout, and wanted to see real consequences - yanno, like jail time (such as happened under Reagan when the S&L's went tits up) - for the cretins who drove our financial system into the ditch.- SIGNY

You forgot Enron and "Bernie" Madoff. Those people got hammered by government because they stole money. The bank bailouts were not about stolen money. Those were caused by Bush and the SEC not wanting to impose "unnecessary" regulations on banks Clinton repealing Glass Steagall and signing the Commodities Futures Modernization Act.


Bush wasn't blameless, but the regulatory allowance was signed by Clinton.

Quote:
Wall Street tycoons are not in fear of being kidnapped, ransomed, or assassinated for what they have done.
Are you saying they should be?

Quote:
If there is even a single American Madman out there who has avenged Main Street for what Wall Street did, I never heard of him. Since not even one crazy American cares, why should politicians? Especially since tycoons have got all the legal help they will ever need to defend themselves from the Justice Department. - SECOND
SO because people tried to legal way to influence government

TEA PARTY PROTEST

http://americansfortruth.com/uploads/2009/09/tea-party-rally_huge_wash
-dc.bmp

OCCUPY PROTEST




AND NOBODY LISTENED, and the protesters didn't take up arms or pay a few snipers to start taking out the top 0.01%, they didn't have a real opinion?

Quote:
Half of Americans are apathetic whiners who can’t do a thing except vote once every two to four years. The other half of them won’t even vote. That half are complete whiners. It is no surprise that those losers get ignored by politicians, but the top 1%, the energetic wealthy people who know whose arm to twist palm to grease, always get their way.
So basically you're advocating violent revolution, which is the only way people without money get anything done.

Good for you!



-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

"If I could write inflammatory commentary to scorch the eye brows and lashes off Trump, Signym or 1kiki, I would.- SECOND"

Hillary knew all about the Electoral College when she ran for office. All of this after-the-fact bitching is still just an attempt to rewrite history. I guess you're all still in various stages of grief, including anger, denial, and bargaining, all rol

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, December 15, 2016 8:57 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

So basically you're advocating violent revolution, which is the only way people without money get anything done.

Good for you!
Revolution? Doesn't that require more than one person? But I have not heard of even a single person punching Mitch McConnell in his funny-looking face. Two, or even three!, in my wildest dreams punching McConnell would please me. They don't even have to do it on the same day because that would require coordination and Americans don't seem able to do much of significance (beyond marching in the street and standing around a building with protest signs. I heard of the Vietnam War protests. Thousands of those didn't work worth a damn, yet any one of them had more passion, because of the draft & the very real possibility of being killed in Vietnam, than all the Tea-party protests & Occupy Wall Street protests put together.) Need I add that the passionate Vietnam protests did not end the war but did end the draft? Politicians were scared of all that passion, which is no longer around in present-day anti-war protests, because there is no draft.

Hey Kentucky! If you see your senior Senator and realize Mitch McConnell's cheating you out of your money to give more to the rich, punch him in the face. He will pay more attention to that message than a million snail-mails or a billion emails sent to his offices in DC or Kentucky.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, December 15, 2016 8:58 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Putin Personally Directed Anti-Clinton Hacking

www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2016/12/nbc-news-putin-personally-direc
ted-anti-clinton-hacking

Russia's hacking goes further than previous reports have suggested:

Two senior officials with direct access to the information say new intelligence shows that Putin personally directed how hacked material from Democrats was leaked and otherwise used. The intelligence came from diplomatic sources and spies working for U.S. allies, the officials said.

Putin's objectives were multifaceted, a high-level intelligence source told NBC News. What began as a "vendetta" against Hillary Clinton morphed into an effort to show corruption in American politics and to "split off key American allies by creating the image that [other countries] couldn't depend on the U.S. to be a credible global leader anymore," the official said.

....The latest intelligence said to show Putin's involvement goes much further than the information the U.S. was relying on in October, when all 17 intelligence agencies signed onto a statement attributing the Democratic National Committee hack to Russia....Now the U.S has solid information tying Putin to the operation, the intelligence officials say. Their use of the term "high confidence" implies that the intelligence is nearly incontrovertible.

This comes from William Arkin, Ken Dilanian, and Cynthia McFadden, who are all careful reporters.

Nobody had any idea that Donald Trump would run, let alone win the Republican nomination, when the hacking operation started. And even after Trump did win the nomination, nobody thought he had much of a chance to win. All of Putin's hacking would have been for nought if he hadn't had some help from James Comey and a rogue group of FBI agents in New York.

Putin got lucky. But that's the way intelligence operations work. You try a lot of stuff and hope that a fraction of it pans out. This probably seemed like a low-cost-low-probability exercise when it was first started, and ended up succeeding beyond anyone's wildest dreams.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, December 15, 2016 10:07 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Doesn't the timing of this story leave you just a little suspicious?
Isn't the building crescendo of hysteria ... just before the Inauguration, no less! ... a tad reminiscent of the Iraq WMD hysteria?

I'm going to point to an important part of the article

Quote:
Two senior officials with direct access to the information say new intelligence shows that Putin personally directed how hacked material from Democrats was leaked and otherwise used. The intelligence came from diplomatic sources and spies working for U.S. allies, the officials said.


Wow! TWO sources??? All two???

What if I were to say that the spies and diplomats were from Ukraine? Would that make any difference?

Yanno, the overarching intelligence outfit that rides herd on the CIA, FBI, NSA, DIA etc has already decided not to endorse the CIA view. This sounds like two CIA staffers gone rogue. I'm going to copy this to the FAKE NEWS thread, because as are as I can tell, it's FAKE NEWS until demonstrated otherwise.





-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

"If I could write inflammatory commentary to scorch the eye brows and lashes off Trump, Signym or 1kiki, I would.- SECOND"

Hillary knew all about the Electoral College when she ran for office. All of this after-the-fact bitching is still just an attempt to rewrite history. I guess you're all still in various stages of grief, including anger, denial, and bargaining, all rol

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, December 15, 2016 10:15 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Doesn't the timing of this story leave you just a little suspicious?
Isn't the building crescendo of hysteria ... just before the Inauguration, no less! ... a tad reminiscent of the Iraq WMD hysteria?

. . . it's FAKE NEWS until demonstrated otherwise.
Are you and Trump going to spend his term of office whitewashing everything Russia does in order to forestall the release of damaging, stolen GOP documents by Russia? Is Trump answerable to the American people, or a foreign government that does not have the United States’ best interests at heart? Or are you claiming that only the Dems had their email stolen because the GOP's security was far superior?

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, December 15, 2016 10:32 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


So you hail a cab in Manhattan to go to LaGuardia and the cabdriver heads for the Lincoln Tunnel and you say, “La-Guardia, LaGuardia!, LaGuardia!!,” and he says, “Yeah, yeah, yeah,” and you’re in New Jersey, and you yell at him to stop and he doesn’t, he points north and says, “Bridge!” and now you’re on I-87 passing through Poughkeepsie — this is pretty much where we are with Trump Inc. so far. The populist revolt turns into a corporate boardroom and the disaffected Democrats who voted for it are not going to catch that plane to Florida after all. They will be spending four years on cousin Sid’s rollaway in Schenectady.

The big guy said a couple weeks ago that he was planning to “focus on running the country” and now we see what “focus” means in his case. He appointed a pollution defender to head the EPA and his secretary of state will be the Exxon exec, a business partner of the Russians, and now you have to wonder if our next Surgeon General will be an optometrist. And why not Billy Bush to head the Endowment for the Arts? You got a problem with that?

-- Garrison Keillor


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, December 15, 2016 10:41 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:
Doesn't the timing of this story leave you just a little suspicious?
Isn't the building crescendo of hysteria ... just before the Inauguration, no less! ... a tad reminiscent of the Iraq WMD hysteria?

. . . it's FAKE NEWS until demonstrated otherwise. - SIGNY

Are you and Trump going to spend his term of office whitewashing everything Russia does in order to forestall the release of damaging, stolen GOP documents by Russia? Is Trump answerable to the American people, or a foreign government that does not have the United States’ best interests at heart? Or are you claiming that only the Dems had their email stolen because the GOP's security was far superior? - SECOND


Are you going to spend the rest of the Trump Presidency in near-total, unthinking hysteria? I'm not claiming anything, SECOND. The stolen emails were given to Assange by NOT RUSSIA, Assange says so. He knows where they came from: NOT RUSSIA. There is some evidence that it came from a DNC insider. The biggest intelligence super-agency refuses to endorse the CIA view: Are you saying that they don't have America's interests at heart?

The hack started just as Trump was entering the primaries, in 2015. It's a little hard to claim that whoever did the hack was supporting Trump - OR ANYBODY - at that point.

Now personally, I have a huge GIANT space in my brain where I emotionally quarantine information, and that space is called "interesting if true".

Quote:
You'll trust them [the Director of National Intelligence, DNI] which supervises and coordinates the other intelligence agencies] but not the CIA? Hrrrmmm...

There is more than one intelligence agency at work here: CIA, FBI, DIA, NSA, NRO - all together, 16 agencies - and they do NOT all share the CIA's intepretation. In the past, both the DIA and the FBI have been more on-target, and the CIA seems to have confused its "operational/propaganda/destabilization" role with its intelligence-gathering one.

If this was anything more than two guys with a wild hair up their ass, we wouldn't be treated to leaks from anonymous people based on nameless sources. I still think there is a power struggle going on between the CIA and the remaining intelligence agencies.


-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

"If I could write inflammatory commentary to scorch the eye brows and lashes off Trump, Signym or 1kiki, I would.- SECOND"

Hillary knew all about the Electoral College when she ran for office. All of this after-the-fact bitching is still just an attempt to rewrite history. I guess you're all still in various stages of grief, including anger, denial, and bargaining, all rol

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, December 15, 2016 11:06 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Republicans Are Warming Up to Vladimir Putin

What did Putin actually do during this period? He escalated the siege of Aleppo. He escalated military activities in Ukraine. And he released a whole bunch of emails hacked from Democrats and Democratic organizations. I wonder which of these accounts for the sudden bounce in Putin love among conservative Republicans? Hmmm....

https://twitter.com/williamjordann/status/809069737879674888/



The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, December 15, 2016 12:47 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Republicans Are Warming Up to Vladimir Putin

https://twitter.com/williamjordann/status/809069737879674888/



OH LOOK! FROM TWITTER!

How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, December 15, 2016 3:22 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


A Practical Guide for Promoting (or Resisting) the Trump Agenda.

Former congressional staffers reveal best practices for making Congress listen.

It works for Republicans who want Trump to honor his promises or Democrats who don’t.

https://docs.google.com/document/u/1/d/1DzOz3Y6D8g_MNXHNMJYAz1b41_cn53
5aU5UsN7Lj8X8/mobilebasic

The document is full of insight about what does and does not work. (Example: members of Congress listen to their own constituents, not voters from other districts. They are more likely to answer actionable questions rather than vague requests.)

Whatever one thinks of the emerging Trump administration’s plans, this is a precious compendium on the importance of political engagement, and a reminder of the real power available through active participation.

“Change will not come if we wait for some other person or some other time. We are the ones we’ve been waiting for. We are the change that we seek.”

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, December 16, 2016 6:35 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Republicans Are Warming Up to Vladimir Putin

https://twitter.com/williamjordann/status/809069737879674888/


OH LOOK! FROM TWITTER!
The more we learn about the Russian plot to sabotage Hillary Clinton’s campaign and elect Donald Trump, and the failure of the FBI to adequately respond, the more shocking it gets....I was surprised to read in the New York Times that when the FBI discovered the Russian attack in September 2015, it failed to send even a single agent to warn senior Democratic National Committee officials. Instead, messages were left with the DNC IT “help desk.”

....Comparing the FBI’s massive response to the overblown email scandal with the seemingly lackadaisical response to the very real Russian plot to subvert a national election shows that something is deeply broken at the FBI.

FBI Director James Comey justified his handling of the email case by citing “intense public interest.” He felt so strongly that he broke long-established precedent and disregarded strong guidance from the Justice Department with his infamous letter just 11 days before the election. Yet he refused to join the rest of the intelligence community in a statement about the Russian cyberattack because he reportedly didn’t want to appear “political.” And both before and after the election, the FBI has refused to say whether it is investigating Trump’s ties to Russia.

Outside of a badly-written novel, it's hard to believe that any law enforcement organization would do as little as the FBI did against a major assault from a hostile foreign power aimed at one of America's main political parties.

Even when plenty of evidence was amassed about Russia's actions, Comey downplayed it in private briefings. This gave Republicans the cover they needed to insist that Obama not mention anything about it during the campaign.

Put all that the FBI has done since 2015 together and you need to be pretty obtuse not to see the partisan pattern. In every single case, Comey and the FBI did what was best for Republicans and worst for Democrats. In. Every. Single. Case.

If you want to believe this is just a coincidence, go ahead. But nobody with a room temperature IQ credits that. The FBI has spent the entire past year doing everything it could to favor one party over the other in a presidential campaign.

www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2016/12/why-are-democrats-so-damn-timid
-about-james-comey-and-fbi

http://editorialcartoonists.com/cartoon/display.cfm/156500/

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, December 16, 2016 7:01 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Are you going to spend the rest of the Trump Presidency in near-total, unthinking hysteria? I'm not claiming anything, SECOND.
Unscripted reality

Post-production aside, Trump cannot change the story on his conflicts of interest.

"We’ll fix it in post."

That phrase must have been thrown around a lot on the set of “The Apprentice.”

When it came time for The Donald to dispense of a contestant — “You’re fired” — the show’s producers would gather and discuss who did well in their weekly challenges, who was pulling their weight and who deserved to stay.

Donald Trump would ignore the facts and go with his gut.

“Manipulating footage to invent a story point that did not exist organically is common in reality TV editing, although with ‘The Apprentice,’ it proved a tremendous feat,” A.J. Catoline wrote in CineMontage, the journal of the Motion Pictures Editors Guild.

The real world isn’t a reality TV show, and there’s no post-production editing to fit the narrative with Trump’s decisions. That hasn’t stopped him from trying.

Thursday was supposed to mark Trump’s first news conference in 140 days — an event that he had promised would be spent clarifying how he would untangle his personal business interests before assuming the presidency.

On Monday, he canceled.

According to his tweets, Trump will make a public announcement in January (after the Electoral College vote) and plans to leave his two adult sons in charge, with instructions to make “no new deals.” Left unsaid is how Trump specifically plans to leave his business, whether he’ll establish a blind trust or liquidate his assets, and how he’ll keep an appropriate wall between himself and his children.

Trump has instead filled the news cycle with all sorts of distractions: meeting with tech CEOs, an angry tweet about a restaurant review, inviting Kanye West to Trump Tower.

Shocking twists and special guest stars can’t change the story: The next president of the United States has extensive private business holdings that create conflicts of interests, open him to avenues for bribery and potentially violate the Constitution’s prohibitions on emoluments.

Trump has not released tax documents, so the public simply does not know how far his ventures range. However, a financial disclosure form from last May indicates that he has a stake in hundreds of corporations around the globe and each raises questions about how Trump will represent U.S. interests even if they conflict with his own finances.

The president-elect keeps trying to fast-forward past these important concerns. Maybe he’ll just end up kicking the can on that promised January news conference. But until he clarifies what, exactly, he’s doing, Trump leaves himself vulnerable to damaging speculation and potential ethics violations.

The U.S. Office of Government Ethics, which was created in the wake of the Watergate scandal, has recommended that Trump divest himself of his business interests in order to avoid a litany of foreseeable conflicts. Simply transferring ownership to his children isn’t enough.

Trump’s eventual decision will be part of the story of United States. His Republican colleagues need to push him to live up to the highest ethical standards. The consequences cannot be fixed in post — this isn’t reality TV.

www.houstonchronicle.com/opinion/editorials/article/Unscripted-reality
-10799755.php

The perfect cartoon for 1kiki and Signym:
www.newyorker.com/cartoons/a20602

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, December 16, 2016 8:36 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:
The hack started just as Trump was entering the primaries, in 2015. It's a little hard to claim that whoever did the hack was supporting Trump - OR ANYBODY - at that point. - SIGNY

Which means absolutely nothing, thanks. Hacks don't have calendars or seasons - wise up. - GSTRING
Hacks don't - but people do.

*****

So here is the confusing thing about the hacks and releases: the timeline is screwed up and the attribution is messed up too.

Do you know how many hacking attempts/leaks on the DNC that the media has reported?

FOUR.

Over time, they have reported on one discovered BY THE FBI SEP 2015 but beginning who knows when .... According to reports, the FBI attempted to alert the DNC to the intrusion. Special Agent Adrian Hawkins repeatedly called the DNC over several weeks to alert them that a group called "The Dukes" (which Crowdstrike calls "Cozybear") had infiltrated the system. The tech guy who took the calls, Yared Tamene, ran a cursory check of system logs but not finding anything interesting and ignored the FBI calls until they stopped. “I did not return his calls, as I had nothing to report,” he wrote in a memo seen by the New York Times.

In MARCH 2016, [Crowdstrike says] that another hacking attempt began. This one was done though phishing emails claiming that "S?me?ne has your passw?rd", which snared one DNC staffer, Billy Rinehart, to click on the email to change Podesta's gmail password.

Here is the email, as released by WIKILEAKS:

Quote:

From:slatham@hillaryclinton.com
To: mfisher@hillaryclinton.com, john.podesta@gmail.com
Date: 2016-03-19 12:07
Subject: Fwd: S?me?ne has your passw?rd

The gmail one is REAL
Milia, can you change - does JDP have the 2 step verification or do we need
to do with him on the phone? Don't want to lock him out of his in box!
Sent from my iPhone

Begin forwarded message:
*From:* Charles Delavan <cdelavan@hillaryclinton.com>;
*Date:* March 19, 2016 at 9:54:05 AM EDT
*To:* Sara Latham &lt;slatham@hillaryclinton.com>;, Shane Hable <
shable@hillaryclinton.com>;
*Subject:* *Re: S?me?ne has your passw?rd*

Sara,
This is a legitimate email. John needs to change his password immediately,
and ensure that two-factor authentication is turned on his account.
He can go to this link: https://myaccount.google.com/security to do both.
It is absolutely imperative that this is done ASAP.
If you or he has any questions, please reach out to me at 410.562.9762

On Sat, Mar 19, 2016 at 9:29 AM, Sara Latham &lt;slatham@hillaryclinton.com>;
wrote:

Sent from my iPhone
Begin forwarded message:
*From:* Google &lt;no-reply@accounts.googlemail.com>;
*Date:* March 19, 2016 at 4:34:30 AM EDT
*To:* john.podesta@gmail.com
*Subject:* *S?me?ne has your passw?rd*
S?me?ne has your passw?rd
Hi John
Someone just used your password to try to sign in to your Google Account john.podesta@gmail.com.
Details:
Saturday, 19 March, 8:34:30 UTC
IP Address: 134.249.139.239
Location: Ukraine
Google stopped this sign-in attempt. You should change your password immediately.

CHANGE PASSWORD < https://bit.ly/1PibSU0>;
Best,
The Gmail Team
You received this mandatory email service announcement to update you about important changes to your Google product or account.

Charles Delavan
HFA Help Desk
The HFA Operations Team is here to support you. Let us know how we’re doing
by filling out a brief survey < http://bit.ly/1gL3oMk>;.
https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/34899#efmAAGAAbAHLAIUAWxA
XH


APRIL 2016, The DNC brings in CrowdStrike

JUNE 14, WaPo reported (from Crowdstrike leak) that hackers had gained entrance to "the entire database of opposition research on GOP presidential candidate Donald Trump" (not the Podesta emails) and the day after, Crowdstrike announces that there were two hacks, the first one in 2015, which the FBI attributed to The Dukes is now being attributed to Cozybear and the second one in March 2016 which Crowdstrike attributes to Fancybear. Crowdstrike claims that Cozybear and Fancybear originate from two different Russian security organizations.

On JULY 21, GUCCIFER 2.0 ALSO claims to have infiltrated the DNC server. Although the DNC claimed that no personal, financial, or donor information was accessed, "Guccifer 2.0" leaked what he or they claimed were donor lists detailing DNC campaign contributions to Gawker and The Smoking Gun. However, this information has not been authenticated, and doubts remain about Guccifer 2.0's backstory. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_National_Committee_cyber_atta
cks#cite_note-sanger-3
At the time, this was ALSO blamed on Russia, of course.


And finally JULY 22 WIKILEAKS starts releasing DNC emails. THIS WAS ALSO BLAMED ON RUSSIA. These are the ONLY significant releases and, of course, the only ones that could credibly be pointed to as influencing the 2016 election. Information from previous hacks was not made public (except by Guccifer 2.0, and there is reason to doubt the authenticity of the information.) Julian Assange says that this information came from a leak, not Russia, and Craig Murray, former British ambassador to Uzbekistan and a close associate of Wikileaks founder Julian Assange, told Dailymail.com goes even further: He says that he flew to Washington, D.C. for a clandestine hand-off with one of the email sources in September. ‘Neither of [the leaks] came from the Russians,’ said Murray in an interview with Dailymail.com on Tuesday. ‘The source had legal access to the information. The documents came from inside leaks, not hacks.’

So in reality, although there was apparently more than one hack on more than one server, the relevant releases were from WIKILEAKS, not any other potential actor.

In looking at all of this, I have a few observations:

1) Crowdstrike was hired by the DNC in April. The Wikileaks emails go to May. In other words, roughly one month AFTER Crowstrike starts looking into the potential hacks, emails are still being pulled off the server, and not only pulled off the server, but pulled off en masse. Either Crowdstrike doesn't know how to lock down a system, or the emails weren't accessed via a hack.

2) The email that indicated when the second intrusion occurred- the phishing email sent on MARCH 2016 - was released by Wikileaks. Now, if someone is releasing hacked information, don't you think that the first thing they would delete is the evidence of their own hack? Especially since they know when it occurred and the content, it's not like it would be a blind search through 40,000 emails. Sloppy, sloppy, sloppy.

3) Every hack and every leak is automatically blamed on Russia, whether it makes sense or not. Guccifer 2.0 is probably the least credible, since the hacked information was supposedly worthless. Wikileaks in the next least-credible, since the timing of the accessed emails includes the time that Crowdstrike was already investigating the DNC intrusions and their release also includes a self-incriminating email that could have easily been stripped out. But even the other hacks ... which Crowdstrike founder Dmitri Alperovitch described as “incredibly sophisticated groups” which “covered their tracks well”, left easy-to-find fingerprints all over their communications?

4) The answer to "Was it a hack, or was it a leak?" is most likely BOTH. It seems to me that the hacks are just information-gathering. In fact, Crowstrike claims that the DNC server was hacked twice, by two different entities. The hacked information is probably still residing comfortably somewhere on several servers, the leaked information is splattered all over the internet. It's not surprising that the DNC server was the subject of much interest, but the occurrence of the hacks, which Crowdstrike and the WH blame on Russia, makes if far too easy to conflate the events and blame Russia for everything. This may be why the FBI and the ODNI are at odds with the CIA ... there may have been a hack, even a Russian one, but that it was not the hack that was the source of released information.

5) It's not evident from my links, but WaPo comes up over and over again as the favorite place to launder information through. It seems to be the unofficial channel for CIA leaks and CIA disinformation.


THE LATEST FROM JAMES CLAPPER'S ODNI

Quote:
Further evidence of the political motivation behind the whole CIA claim that Russia was behind the DNC and Podesta leaks has come from an unexpected quarter – James Clapper’s Office of the Director of National Intelligence (“ODNI”) – which supervises the work of all of the US’s 17 intelligence agencies.

Speaking anonymously to Reuters, three ODNI officials have trashed the CIA claim that Russia provided Wikileaks with the DNC and Podesta leaks in order to help Donald Trump beat Hillary Clinton in the US election.

The key point the ODNI officials are making is that whilst there is some evidence of Russian intelligence having hacked the DNC, that does not prove it was Russian intelligence which passed on the information to Wikileaks in order to swing the election to Donald Trump.

In the words of one of the unnamed ODNI officials

“[The CIA conclusion] was a judgment based on the fact that Russian entities hacked both Democrats and Republicans and only the Democratic information was leaked. (It was) a thin reed upon which to base an analytical judgment.”

Moreover it turns out that this is the same thinking as that of the FBI. As one of the ODNI officials told Reuters

“The Federal Bureau of Investigation, whose evidentiary standards require it to make cases that can stand up in court, declined to accept the CIA’s analysis – a deductive assessment of the available intelligence – for the same reason”.

“We’re aware that campaigns and related organizations and individuals are targeted by actors with a variety of motivations — from philosophical differences to espionage — and capabilities — from defacements to intrusions,” said Brian P. Hale, director of public affairs for the Office of the Director of National Intelligence. “We defer to FBI for specific incidents.”


https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/national-intell
igence-director-hackers-have-tried-to-spy-on-2016-presidential-campaigns/2016/05/18/2b1745c0-1d0d-11e6-b6e0-c53b7ef63b45_story.html




-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

"If I could write inflammatory commentary to scorch the eye brows and lashes off Trump, Signym or 1kiki, I would.- SECOND"

Hillary knew all about the Electoral College when she ran for office. All of this after-the-fact bitching is still just an attempt to rewrite history. I guess you're all still in various stages of grief, including anger, denial, and bargaining, all rol

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, December 16, 2016 12:41 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Take Trump’s Moscow-friendly views seriously (and literally)

www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/12/16/13971322/trump-tillerson-ru
ssia

Trump has been at this long enough that it’s long past time to stop thinking about his frequently expressed pro-Russian views as some kind of thoughtless gaffe. Since exploding onto the political stage with the claim that Mexican immigrants are rapists and murderers, Trump has routinely articulated a desire to rework the American alliance system:

He has specifically praised Vladimir Putin in the face of significant media criticism.
He has endorsed Russia’s brutal intervention in the Syrian Civil War.
He has changed the GOP platform to become less supportive of Ukrainian independence from Russia.
He has called into question America’s obligation to our NATO allies.
He has said, over and over again, things like “I want to get along with Russia.”

Many of these moves were seen, at the time they happened, as gaffes reflecting Trump’s inexperience or lack of knowledge. And on some level, perhaps they were. But whether Trump set about to conduct a pro-Russian presidential campaign or else just stumbled into it, at this point he’s stuck with it long enough that we should assume Trump knows what he’s doing.

Tillerson is the right choice for a rapprochement with Moscow

The idea that the United States should abandon its current opposition to Russian efforts to dominate its neighbors and crush the Syrian opposition happens to be one that none of the conventionally qualified candidates for secretary of state endorses.

As a logical matter, the idea of asking Tillerson to disavow pro-Russian views is ridiculous. If the Senate doesn’t want to see America’s next secretary of state take foreign policy in a new pro-Russian direction, then the solution is to refuse to confirm Tillerson and insist on a more normal choice like Bob Corker, Robert Zoellick, Stephen Hadley, Nicholas Burns, or any of the other dozen or so conventionally qualified Republicans who are available.

Trump ran a pro-Russian presidential campaign, benefited from the efforts of Russian hackers, and then reached outside the box of normal candidates to select a secretary of state who has personal relationships with high-ranking Russian officials, financial investments in Russia, and a record of pro-Russian policy views. Trump wants Tillerson to run the State Department because he wants a top diplomat who’ll make an improved relationship with Russia a top priority — achieved largely through unilateral US concessions on sanctions and de facto recognition of a Russian sphere of influence in Eastern Europe.

This may be a bad idea, but it’s not a crazy or nonsensical one. And it appears to be how Trump intends to put his stamp on American public policy, even while leaving domestic policy overwhelmingly in the hands of orthodox, establishment-minded Republicans. The question for GOP senators is whether they want to stop Trump and Tillerson.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, December 17, 2016 1:40 AM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


I dont no a bunch about Russia, so my opinion iz not worth much.

It seemz to me that it woud be better in the long run if America and Russia got along. If this involvez letting Putin do sum stuff outside their borderz that duznt affect American interests, OK. Its not like America can claim to be innosent uv meddling and bomming!

BUT. Its never a good idea to let proven enemyz gain power. Iz Russia an enemy or just a rival looking out for its own well being?

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.nooalf.com

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, December 17, 2016 2:26 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


I know we don't speak a lot JO, and although we used to be awesome super friends in another forum it alwayhs makes me sad when we don't agree today.


But this post made me happy :)

Ask yourself this....

Do you believe for a second that a conspiracy theorist who has at least 12 years history at this site would just blindly follow trump when my early history was 110% critical of GBW?

I don't believe that Russia or Putin had anything to do with our votes. During and weeks after the 2nd Debate, the Democrats including Obama laughed and said it wasn't a thing, yet now.......

I agree it would be wise to build a relationship with Russia.

To put it in Childlike things, I remember my first "Enemy" being the New York Nicks to my Chicago Bulls....

But then I remembered in later years it was Shaq and Orlando, and even Indiana Pacers and I should remember the name why (Reggie?), but as I've said before, sports do play little in my life now.

Yeah... Reggie Miller.

What a Fucking Badass he was....

I mean REALLY....

Against the Best of The Bulls, there was a night where HE SINGLE HANDEDLY WAS RESPONSIBLE for a couple of steals and 3 pointers and won a game that never should have been won with that little time on the clock.




That's why Professional sports don't mean shit. just a bunch of overpaid athletes from other places.



if you want to watch something you care about, watch and support local sports




EDITED TO ADD: I wasn't talking against Reggie Miller and his AMAZING accomplishment. I'm was just talking that it was something forgotten because it was AGAINST the Bulls Dynasty of the time.


I'd have to research it. I'm sure it was on YouTube. It was like at least an 18 point turn around that was SINGLE attributed to Reggie Miller.


Against the BEST TEAM in PRO BALL at the time.

it was something like 3 three pointers and 2 steals in between, all by him, in like under "the shot clock"

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, December 17, 2016 6:40 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Why Putin is suddenly gaining popularity among Republicans

www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2016/1216/Why-Putin-is-suddenly-gaining
-popularity-among-conservatives

A new poll released this week by YouGov shows that in the US, self-identified Republicans viewing Putin as very or somewhat favorably rose from 10 percent in July 2014 to 37 percent today.

The YouGov poll not only shows an uptick in support over the past two years, but also a decline in antipathy. Nearly half of Republicans – 47 percent – still view Putin somewhat or very unfavorably – but those seeing him “very unfavorably collapsed from 51 percent in 2014 to 10 percent now.

“If you look at public opinion in the United States, there were pretty universal negative views of Putin up to this summer,” Darden says. “Then we had the Republican nominee sounding very pro-Putin, and the public shifted shockingly quickly.”

The turnaround in the Russian leader’s image in the US can be ascribed almost completely to Trump’s repeated contrasting of Putin’s strong leadership and President Obama’s “weakness.”

“It’s really the people who are opposed to Obama who are revising their view of Putin,” Darden says. “It’s pure partisanship that says, ‘Putin was the enemy of Obama, therefore he must be a pretty decent guy.’ ”


That sunk in with voters drawn to Trump’s rhetoric and style, and the result is that “a surprising number of people now see Putin in a positive light as a man of action,. They see Putin as a leader who was dealt a weaker hand than the president of the United States, but who has somehow been able to play it better.”

When the United Nations Security Council on Wednesday proposed a resolution praising outgoing Secretary General Ban Ki-moon for supporting the world’s lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender community, Russia stood up to its Western colleagues and said no.

The wording about sexual minorities, whom Russian President Vladmir Putin disdains, was replaced with a benign reference to the “most vulnerable” and “marginalized.”

There’s no doubting Putin’s opposition to sexual minorities and his deep disdain for what he sees as a decadent West. In his often-cited 2013 state-of-the-nation speech, the Russian leader defended Russia’s “traditional” values against the West’s “so-called tolerance,” which he condemned as “genderless and infertile” and for promoting “the equality of good and evil.”

Instead of facing near universal rejection in the West over Putin’s oppressive governance at home, his seizure of Crimea, and his intervention in Syria on behalf of a despot, Putin is for some a hero. Nationalist conservatives see Putin as defending sovereign nationhood in the face of globalization, and traditional values against an onslaught of threatening forces.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, December 17, 2016 6:53 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


First off... Congratulations on the 1,500th post on this thread Second.


Beyond that, so what?

Last I checked, Sean Connery has been retired from acting for 15 years....

We aren't Soviet Agents. We're just not at all agreeable to the Neo-Con and/or Neo-Lib bullshit.

Stuff that you are in favor of is the exact same stuff you were against 10 years ago.


They flipped the script, and you took the bait.


Of course I don't want Russia to own us.

But at the same time, THIS is how out of control Liberalism has gotten in this country.

The fact that we can actually have this conversation and it might actually have a little bit of weight to it.


In the ENTIRE WORLD there are two major powers that do not let ANY Muslims across their borders. China and Russia.

This isn't 19-fucking-80. I'm not Snake Pliskin coaching the US hockey team to beat Russia.

Islam is a VERY "rapey" culture and their women are dogs. They are invading the lands of my ancestors and raping the women there and trying to force them all to wear hajibs... because apparently these ANIMALS can't help but rape women who aren't covered head to toe, and bullshit "Leaders" like Merkel in Germany don't defend German Women and are about to be voted out and the Muslims are going to be forced out soon after that.


I'm sure all the Muslims weren't "Bad People". The ones who weren't had plenty of opportunity to speak against that and beg local law enforcement to make an example of them, but none of them did that. Islam wants to convert the entire world.

Buh-Bye Muslims. Buh-Bye Unelected European Union "Masters".

10 years from now, or very much less, there will be ZERO EU.

ANYONE would RATHER be invaded by Russia than raped to submission by Islam.

That's just the facts.

Shut your fucking mouth about it until you are raped or your daughter is raped by a Muslim that hates her because she wears sexy clothes and make up.



Do Right, Be Right. :)

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, December 17, 2016 7:13 AM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


Quote:
Originally posted by second:
A new poll released this week by YouGov shows that in the US, self-identified Republicans viewing Putin as very or somewhat favorably rose from 10 percent in July 2014 to 37 percent today.


This iz a predictable side effect uv ODS. Back in 2010 I posted a comic about Obama suffocating haf the countryz GoPs by declaring "breathing iz good". It wuz set in the future - 2016.

Considering everything that haz happened, its not that far fetched! I dare Obama to test it!

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.nooalf.com

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, December 17, 2016 7:30 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Obama doubled our national debt and the only "jobs" that were "recovered" in the last 8 years were part time, minimum-wage jobs now held by people who used to be able to support a family with real jobs, or people who just completely left the workforce like me and are no longer a statistic they track....


Nobody but the truly Privilged White people will revere Obama as a great president. Not even ANY black people. He did NOTHING for Black People or Latin People. He actually deported more illegal Latinos that GWB did. One thing I actually agreed with him on although nowhere near the amount that should have happened. The only "Legacy" he has is Obamacare that is crushing middle income people, and Trump will strip it to bare bones if he doesn't just renig on what he said to appease idiot lefties like you and destroy it altogether.

I say this knowing full well that I will no longer have health insurance in my current position. I'm okay with that. It's not right that I have insurance while my Niece's parents pay 6k per year more with twice the deductible to cover my free insurance.

I said 10 years ago here that GWB was the worst president we EVER had.

Not even considering how little respect any foreign countries have for us now, but just for how much he spent with such little results for the middle class. Not to mention that Race Relations have been set back 50 years under 8 years of Obama. Blacks and Whites have not lived under this much tension since the 60's.



Obama was so much worse. He makes GWB look like JFK.


Because he is Black, nobody will talk about him at all in school 30 years from now. He will be among the 30+ "invisible" presidents we never discuss in public school.




Do Right, Be Right. :)

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, December 17, 2016 9:57 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Obama was so much worse. He makes GWB look like JFK.

Because he is Black, nobody will talk about him at all in school 30 years from now. He will be among the 30+ "invisible" presidents we never discuss in public school.
Discuss Nixon much in school? Was Obama worse than Nixon?

With a phone call, private citizen Nixon wrecked foreign relations with Vietnam before his inauguration and gave the USA four more years of war. Read the details here www.commondreams.org/views/2014/08/12/george-will-confirms-nixons-viet
nam-treason#

Before Trump is inaugurated, he is wrecking foreign relations with China. Read the details here:

Obama Warned Trump about the risk of messing with China on Taiwan

by Max de Haldevang
http://qz.com/865705/obama-explains-the-risk-of-trumps-messing-with-ch
ina-on-taiwan/

If China hadn’t provided warning enough to Donald Trump by seizing an American vessel in the South China Sea and threatening sanctions on an unnamed US automaker, president Obama had clear advice at a press conference today: think things through before you mess with Taiwan.

It’s not clear how much foreign policy issues have come up in Obama and Trump’s regular phone calls, but the president’s clearly spelled-out message seems to imply his successor is yet to fully grasp China’s vision of itself, or of the way negotiations play out with a global superpower. The quote is worth reading in full:

“Understand that with China, the issue of Taiwan is as important as anything on their docket. The idea of ‘one China’ is at the heart of their conception as a nation. And so if you are going to upend this understanding, you have to have thought through what the consequences are, because the Chinese will not treat that the way they will treat some other issues. This goes to the core of how they see themselves, and their reaction on this issue could end up being very significant. That doesn’t mean you have to adhere to everything that’s been done in the past…it does mean that you have to think it through.”

If you look at that in context with a statement from the same press conference, you can get an idea of how little Trump might have gamed out his tactics on China: “Since there’s only one president a time, my advice to him is that, before he starts having a lot of interaction with foreign governments, beyond the usual courtesy calls, he should have his full team in place,” Obama said.

The overall message is: it’s your foreign policy but make damn sure you know what steps two, three, four and down to twenty are before going straight for the motherload from the word “go.” Because this isn’t Manhattan real estate, it’s an ancient country with a strong sense of identity and a lot of tools at its disposal, beginning with the kinds of cyber-attacks it’s been prying away with for years.

Instead, the way Trump’s acted so far has been the real world equivalent of his reported advice to a US official in 1990 on how to strike a “great deal” with the Soviets on nuclear arms: “Trump told him to arrive late, stand over the Soviet negotiator, stick his finger in his chest, and say, ‘Fuck you!,'” the New Yorker‘s Evan Osnos reported earlier this year.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, December 17, 2016 10:46 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:
If you aren't aware, Texans don't have much concern for the well-being of Yankees or Californians, even Yankee factory workers in Indiana- SECOND


AND YOU WONDER WHY HILLARY LOST????

Quote:
Trump ran a pro-Russian presidential campaign, benefited from the efforts of Russian hackers
bullshit

Quote:
and then reached outside the box of normal candidates to select a secretary of state who has personal relationships with high-ranking Russian officials, financial investments in Russia, and a record of pro-Russian policy views. Trump wants Tillerson to run the State Department because he wants a top diplomat who’ll make an improved relationship with Russia a top priority — achieved largely through unilateral US concessions on sanctions and de facto recognition of a Russian sphere of influence in Eastern Europe.

This may be a bad idea
Why? What American interests does this cross? I have asked over and what our AMERICAN interests are and yanno what?? NONE OF YOU KNOWS. But If you could figure our what our actual interests are, you'd be a lot less likely be be spun around by our elites and their fake news. Please, think long and hard what our AMERICAN interests are before you start getting all hysterical about
"Russia".

Quote:
but it’s not a crazy or nonsensical one. And it appears to be how Trump intends to put his stamp on American public policy, even while leaving domestic policy overwhelmingly in the hands of orthodox, establishment-minded Republicans. The question for GOP senators is whether they want to stop Trump and Tillerson.- SECOND




-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

"If I could write inflammatory commentary to scorch the eye brows and lashes off Trump, Signym or 1kiki, I would.- SECOND"

You're suffering from the various stages of grief including bargaining, denial, and anger, all at once


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, December 18, 2016 9:42 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Please, think long and hard what our AMERICAN interests are before you start getting all hysterical about "Russia".
When you use "our AMERICAN interests", who do think believes you are American? Your obsession, and 1kiki’s, with Russia makes everyone at Fireflyfans, except 1kiki and maybe 6ixStringJack, think you’re Russian. No Americans care about Russia, but they do care that Trump is obsessed with Putin and Putin is sneaking stolen emails to Trump. Is Putin blackmailing Trump? Although he never shuts up, Trump is so secretive about his business that we can only guess.

Trump can talk more about himself and say less than any other American politician. I do wish Trump’s accountant would talk about Trump’s tax returns or his foreign business dealings or his conflict of interest between what is best for the Trump family fortune and best for the USA, etc. because Trump is not talking.
http://editorialcartoonists.com/cartoon/display.cfm/156590/

http://editorialcartoonists.com/cartoon/display.cfm/156500/

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, December 18, 2016 11:09 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:
Please, think long and hard what our AMERICAN interests are before you start getting all hysterical about "Russia". - SIGNY
When you use "our AMERICAN interests", who do think believes you are American?-SECOND


Honey, I've been here longer than YOU have.

Do you want to know how to check? Just click on MY NAME. It will bring up my info: BROWNCOAT ID#:1606 SINCE: 2002.11.05 15:46. Yours says BROWNCOAT ID#:20832 SINCE: 2006.06.23 01:50. Do you really ... REALLY .... think that ANYBODY would place a foreign troll on a no-account website for 14 years, on the off chance they might come in handy some day, to try to sway maybe 20 people?

Quote:
Your obsession, and 1kiki’s, with Russia makes everyone at Fireflyfans, except 1kiki and maybe 6ixStringJack, think you’re Russian.- SECOND

I'm not the one posting endlessly about Russia; I leave that to you, KRAPO (who's British) and GSTRING. In fact, that's what pisses you all off: I don't post about Russia.

I just refuse to get on that recently-concocted anti-Russian bandwagon, because it sure smells a lot like the anti-Iraq bandwagon, and the anti-Vietnam bandwagon, and every anti-(fill in the blank) bandwagon that the USA elites wanted to go to war with: full of shit.

Well, I don't give a crap about "Russia" unless it impacts our interests, and neither should you.

Quote:
No Americans care about Russia
Then why do you keep bringing it up?

Quote:
but they do care that Trump is obsessed with Putin and Putin is sneaking stolen emails to Trump.

HAHAHAHA!

You're grasping at straws, SECOND. You have used every negative meme you can think of to discredit Trump, from pictures of Trump struck by lightening to Trump as a pervert to "hacked elections" to "faithless electors" and pretty much every bit of flotsam that came your way. Now you're grasping at the "...but Putin!" straw. The only thing you haven't posted yet is your secret wish that someone would assassinate Trump, and OH! You'd be in so much trouble if you did! Tomorrow the Electoral College votes, and it looks like none of your attempts to rewrite history will work.

So take a deep breath. Down several of your favorite alcoholic beverages and contemplate why YOU'RE so anti-American. Here's a reminder of your anti-Americanism:

Quote:
If you aren't aware, Texans don't have much concern for the well-being of Yankees or Californians, even Yankee factory workers in Indiana- SECOND


Clearly, you don't care about "America". You can't even think of "Americans" without some sort of hyphenated-precious-identity subgroup on it, yanno "gay Americans" or "black Americans" or "Hispanic Americans". As far as all of us having common interests, that concept is so foreign to you you can't even imagine what should draw us all together.



-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

"If I could write inflammatory commentary to scorch the eye brows and lashes off Trump, Signym or 1kiki, I would.- SECOND"

You're suffering from the various stages of grief including bargaining, denial, and anger, all at once


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, December 18, 2016 11:41 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


What Do Trump Voters Want?

Paul Krugman on the disconnect between what Trump voters think they want and reality.
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/12/17/what-do-trump-voters-want/

There is the widespread belief by, well, almost everyone, that they are entitled to — have earned — whatever good hand they have been dealt by the market economy. This is reflected in the more or less universal belief of the affluent that they deserve what they have; you could see this in the rage of rentiers at low interest rates, because it’s the Fed’s job to reward savers, right? In this terrible political year, the story was in part one of people in Appalachia angrily demanding a return of the good jobs they used to have mining coal — even though the world doesn’t want more coal given fracking, and it can get the coal it still wants from strip mines and mountaintop removal, which don’t employ many people.

What those longing for the return to coal want is those jobs they deserve, where they earn their money — not government handouts, no sir.

A fact-constrained candidate wouldn’t have been able to promise such people what they want; Trump, of course, had no problem.

But is that really all there is? Working-class Trump voters do, in fact, receive a lot of government handouts — they’re almost totally dependent on Social Security for retirement, Medicare for health care when old, are quite dependent on food stamps, and many have recently received coverage from Obamacare. Quite a few receive disability payments too. They don’t want those benefits to go away. But they managed to convince themselves (with a lot of help from Fox News etc) that they aren’t really beneficiaries of government programs, or that they’re not getting the “good welfare”, which only goes to Those People.

And you can really see this in the regional patterns. California is an affluent state, a heavy net contributor to the federal budget; it went 2-1 Clinton. West Virginia is poor and a huge net recipient of federal aid; it went 2½-1 Trump.

And an interesting comment on Krugman’s item that is is almost as long as what Krugman wrote:
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/12/17/what-do-trump-voters-want/
#permid=20843570

I think it's easy to see an angry coal miner as selfish when we should be seeing him as afraid.

People want to be able to eat, have a house, and provide for their kids' future, but they also want status within their community. Status these days might be misinterpreted as something like winning "The Apprentice," with all that gaudiness, but I think it really is the ability to feel good about one's place. And, as we've seen in studies with other primates, loss of status (or never having it in the first place) is like a little death. I think, actually, that some people would rather die, or kill others and the nation, than suffer that kind of loss.

Look at those 700 people who work for Carrier. I saw that deal as welfare by another name, or Socialism. But, as contradictory as I thought it was - given Republican principles - it showed Trump's base that he could maintain their status, for at least a little longer. People were allowed to keep feeding their families without SNAP, and they were allowed to keep engaging their brains without going to a gov't training center. Is it a fiction? I guess. But the citizens of Indiana helped those people for at least a little bit longer. Should it matter that the money flowed through Carrier's books to the employees, instead of directly through the local welfare office?

Welfare is well being. It has to be more than just debit and insurance cards.

Barb Valaw wrote:
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/12/17/what-do-trump-voters-want/
#permid=20837154

I recently had lunch at an Olive Garden in Pennsylvania. It is part of a county which has a large number of towns formerly dependent on coal mining which are now beaten down. Two men sat in the booth behind me who were clearly Trump voters. One said to the other that he would normally not eat at an Olive Garden because money was tight and he could not afford it. But because Trump was bringing back the coal and steel jobs, he would soon get a good paying job.

These men voted for Trump for the same reason a terminal cancer patient goes to a faith healer. They are desperate and no one else is giving them any hope. They are proud of the town where their family has lived for generations and where their roots are. They want to live where their friends and family live. They don't want to move away and abandon elderly relatives who won't leave. But there are no jobs. Here comes this snake oil salesman telling them snake oil will solve their problems.

However, generally the snake oil salesman gets out of town before the locals realize the snake oil won't work. There is an obvious problem with that strategy in Trump's case.

Ian wrote:
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/12/17/what-do-trump-voters-want/
#permid=20837370

So the welfare states went for Trump big time, no surprise there because they are the main beneficiaries of income transfers from the productive states, and though they want to keep the gravy coming they are embarrassed and angry and resentful of their condition, and so are enamored of a someone, anyone, who pays them lip-device respect and false flattery. Look, I don't like a hand-out, you don't like a hand-out, so if I find myself in that position—not just to get over a temporary rough patch but for a long time, for generations even—then I have to construct a narrative to maintain my self-esteem, even my sense of self.

Yes, a "logical"person would move to an ascendent area where the jobs are now, but most of these depressed areas are one-industry communities, the factory, the mill, the mine, with (still) a strong sense of identity. And yes, they will be betrayed by The Orange One, but no it won't change their sense of victimhood or habits, only reinforce them, so they will vote for him again. Sad.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, December 18, 2016 11:50 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


SECOND, calm down. I can hear your head exploding all the way over here.

Paul Krugman, stawmanning his way through an entire article.

I don't know what "Trump voters" want, but I know what I want: Three things.

1) Stop trying to foment war with Russia. Come up with some sort of modus vivendi that allows each of us to have our essential interests respected. Restore national sovereignty over our foreign policy. End our pointless concocted wars for Saudi Arabia or Israel or the elite EU bankers.

2) Start solving the illegal immigration problem. Restore national sovereignty over our borders.

3) Get out of TPP/ TTIP, and tear up NAFTA as much as possible. Restore national economic sovereignty.

Three things. It looks like TPP and TTIP are already dead. It looks like Trump is serious about not being on a escalating ramp-up to war with Russia. The rest is to be demonstrated.

Everything else, I'm willing to fight Trump at every level of government. Now, let me explain my rationale for voting the way I did: It will be far easier to fight Trump and the Republicans than it would be to fight some secret international "trade tribunal" on environmental and economic issues. If you think fighting Trump is going to be difficult - and it will be - imagine what it would be like if your local or state regulations were overturned by the TPP or TTIP because they might interfere with normal or expected transnational profits. Where would you turn then? (The answer is: Nowhere. You'd be as fucked as a whore in a whorehouse.)



-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

"If I could write inflammatory commentary to scorch the eye brows and lashes off Trump, Signym or 1kiki, I would.- SECOND"

You're suffering from the various stages of grief including bargaining, denial, and anger, all at once


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

YOUR OPTIONS

NEW POSTS TODAY

USERPOST DATE

OTHER TOPICS

DISCUSSIONS
A.I Artificial Intelligence AI
Thu, October 31, 2024 18:47 - 236 posts
Kamala Harris for President
Thu, October 31, 2024 18:10 - 590 posts
Trump on Joe Rogan: Full Podcast
Thu, October 31, 2024 18:05 - 7 posts
Israeli War
Thu, October 31, 2024 18:04 - 62 posts
In the garden, and RAIN!!! (2)
Thu, October 31, 2024 17:58 - 4657 posts
Elections; 2024
Thu, October 31, 2024 17:45 - 4425 posts
Spooky Music Weird Horror Songs...Tis ...the Season...... to be---CREEPY !
Thu, October 31, 2024 16:19 - 56 posts
Sentencing Thread
Thu, October 31, 2024 15:11 - 381 posts
human actions, global climate change, global human solutions
Thu, October 31, 2024 14:25 - 921 posts
Russia Invades Ukraine. Again
Thu, October 31, 2024 13:46 - 7408 posts
No matter what happens...
Wed, October 30, 2024 23:43 - 21 posts
How do you like my garbage truck?
Wed, October 30, 2024 20:41 - 1 posts
 VIEW MORE TOPICS 

FFF.NET SOCIAL