I think Trump might win. by BYTEMITE

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

It's hard to read the tea leaves. Trump appears to be doing better than expected. hillary canceled a fireworks show - is she getting early exit poll results us peons aren't privy to?

But I'd have a hard time squaring a hillary loss with what the polls have been consistently saying all these months (except USC/LATimes) and what I think of as human nature. In the polls, Trump has only very rarely, and briefly, pulled ahead. Most of the time the gap's been considerable. http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_elec
tion_trump_vs_clinton-5491.html That's been very consistent poll to poll and month to month. And, imo, when people are pressed to decide on a deadline in a situation where they're conflicted, they tend to break for the familiar.

So I still think hillary's going to win, and this small tempest is the network's way of drawing audience share.

But IF by some very unlikely fluke Trump DOES win, I'll be considering a few things:
it's Brexit-style result caused by a strong bias in the elite and the media that didn't challenge themselves enough to question their own very comforting polls
hillary really has lost support of tptb and they left her twisting in the wind
democrats really, REALLY need to rethink their reason for being and habitual operations
generally it's a referendum on the party in power, but since Obama has high approval ratings people must dislike hillary specifically

In any case, kitty brought in a rat - yay for kitty, that's one less in the hood! and, I have to go chase him down

I TOLD YOU SO will be very sweet indeed, and repeated often.

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Tuesday, November 8, 2016 11:37 PM

BYTEMITE

Wait, literally a live rat in your house? Good luck with that. Cats are cute but kinda furry assholes.

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Tuesday, November 8, 2016 11:50 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Yeah, a live rat. Fortunately not the god-awful Norway rat type, more a juvenile tree-rat type. But it wouldn't be the first rodent ... or lizard, or bug ... he brought in and then lost.

I TOLD YOU SO will be very sweet indeed, and repeated often.

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Wednesday, November 9, 2016 12:09 AM

BYTEMITE

Oh kitty. Well, give him scritches for me.

As for the election, I'm also choosing to be glad that it's finally over. Both sides were a mess.

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Wednesday, November 9, 2016 12:16 AM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

He gets lots of scratches! I swear he's autistic, which is why I picked him out of the litter I was fostering; and he has occasional seizures. Nevertheless, he has a life as happy as I can make it. Yes, he gets petted, calmed, cared-for and indulged.

As for the election being finally over - over is MORE than good.

I TOLD YOU SO will be very sweet indeed, and repeated often.

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Wednesday, November 9, 2016 12:53 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Poor kitty! But he sounds like he has a great home.

Did you (eewwww!) find the rat?

Hillary is a WAR CANDIDATE, and that's just what we need, right? More war?

G, THUGR, MAL4: Oh BTW, please define intelligence.
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Wednesday, November 9, 2016 1:46 AM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

I do sure hope my kitty has a good home. When you have one with as many problems as mine (asthma and food allergies, too, and does very, very badly with vaccines, plus I need to give him extra B1 or he starts to stumble on his back legs) it's hard to know what's right.

Yes, I found the rat at least a half-dozen times! But then it ran and hid somewhere else ...

I TOLD YOU SO will be very sweet indeed, and repeated often.

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Wednesday, November 9, 2016 7:12 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Try baiting a trap with bacon, and sticking it someplace where kitty WON'T get to it. The professionals bait with peanut butter because it's cheap, but the rats around here just walk right past it.

Hillary is a WAR CANDIDATE, and that's just what we need, right? More war?

G, THUGR, MAL4: Oh BTW, please define intelligence.
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Wednesday, November 9, 2016 9:51 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Kasich would have crushed Hillary like a bug 48.4% to 41%.

Try not to forget that when praising Trump for his campaign brilliance. He ended 47.5% to 47.6%. That is 0.1% difference in Hillary’s favor. Hillary’s, not Trump’s favor.

You can’t even remember who Kasich is, right? But he would have destroyed Hillary easily.
www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_ka
sich_vs_clinton-5162.html
www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_tr
ump_vs_clinton-5491.html
www.nytimes.com/elections/results/president

Back in September, Gallup presented the findings of an important research project that, in retrospect, ought to have prompted a lot more soul searching among members of the press. What they did was, over an extended period of time, survey people and ask them what they were hearing about the two candidates.

The answer is that with regard to Hillary Clinton, they heard a lot about email. With regard to Trump, they heard about nothing in particular.
www.gallup.com/poll/195596/email-dominates-americans-heard-clinton.asp
x

People heard loud and clear that Clinton was in some kind of trouble related to email whereas the stories about Trump — with the exception of the sexual assault allegations, which came after this study — do not seem to have broken through.

But by trying to cover all the different negative storylines about Trump, the press created a muddle in which nothing in particular stood out.

The typical Trump supporter was drawn to him out of either partisanship or attraction to his message. But the marginal Trump supporter is the reason he won. And that supporter was very likely influenced by the overwhelming media focus on the email matter.
www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/11/9/13570724/media-obsession-ema
ils

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Wednesday, November 9, 2016 10:29 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Kasich would have crushed Hillary like a bug 48.4% to 41%.

Try not to forget that when praising Trump for his campaign brilliance. He ended 47.5% to 47.6%. That is 0.1% difference in Hillary’s favor. Hillary’s, not Trump’s favor.

You can’t even remember who Kasich is, right? But he would have destroyed Hillary easily.
www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_ka
sich_vs_clinton-5162.html
www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_tr
ump_vs_clinton-5491.html
www.nytimes.com/elections/results/president

Back in September, Gallup presented the findings of an important research project that, in retrospect, ought to have prompted a lot more soul searching among members of the press. What they did was, over an extended period of time, survey people and ask them what they were hearing about the two candidates.

The answer is that with regard to Hillary Clinton, they heard a lot about email. With regard to Trump, they heard about nothing in particular.
www.gallup.com/poll/195596/email-dominates-americans-heard-clinton.asp
x

People heard loud and clear that Clinton was in some kind of trouble related to email whereas the stories about Trump — with the exception of the sexual assault allegations, which came after this study — do not seem to have broken through.

But by trying to cover all the different negative storylines about Trump, the press created a muddle in which nothing in particular stood out.

The typical Trump supporter was drawn to him out of either partisanship or attraction to his message. But the marginal Trump supporter is the reason he won. And that supporter was very likely influenced by the overwhelming media focus on the email matter.
www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/11/9/13570724/media-obsession-ema
ils

White's were poked and prodded for a year and a half now. Instead of understanding their anger over the outsourcing their jobs, 70,000 factories closing and being wiped out, they were collectively labeled raciest.

Being white I felt under attack myself. I explained here several times what was actually driving many if not most of Trumps supporters. Then there was the media constantly using the term angry white guys. Many of them minorities. And as they did many were condescending. I can't count the times they used that term while saying smugly, there ain't enough of us out here to give Trump a win.

Well, I guess the poking and prodding I felt helped unite many driving them to the polls. I voted for Clinton for many reasons but I get why Trump won. Now comes the consequences of an American Brexit.

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Wednesday, November 9, 2016 10:41 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:

Well, I guess the poking and prodding I felt helped unite many driving them to the polls. I voted for Clinton for many reasons but I get why Trump won. Now comes the consequences of an American Brexit.

If you want to be accurate, Trump lost by 0.2%. 47.7% for Hillary. 47.5% for Trump.
www.nytimes.com/elections/results/president

In Texas, Hillary got 3,848,617 votes or 43.5%. That translates into 0.0000 Electoral Votes thanks to James Madison, who wrote the US Constitution. Must have seemed perfectly fair to Madison, the slave owner, back in the day when no women could vote.
www.nytimes.com/elections/results/texas

In Florida, Hillary got 4,462,414 votes or 47.7%. That translates into 0.0000 Electoral Votes.
I am sensing a pattern. Trump said the voting was rigged. I'm not so sure he will sponsor a Constitutional Amendment to correct Madison's rigging of the vote.
www.nytimes.com/elections/results/florida

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Wednesday, November 9, 2016 11:01 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

If you will notice, the Hillary supporters are still framing this as a case of "whites versus blacks/Hispanics", "male versus female", "rural versus urban", and "educated versus none-educated".

They, more than anyone, speak the politics of division. Since they seldom think in anything other than white/black, male/female, queer/straight, rich/poor categories, they are constantly mentally pitting one group of Americans against another.

This kind of divisiveness is a great distraction from thinking about economics. "The average person seldom thinks about economics, the rich person thinks about nothing else."

In reality, most of us all need (not want- need) the same things for ourselves and our children:

Food and water
A safe place to sleep
A place in society
Some control over our destiny (not the hyped mantra that tells us that we can do anything if we set our minds to it, but the realistic control that allows us to produce for our needs)
Education
Security is case of illness, age, or disability

In reality, it's not "whites" that take this away from "blacks" or "men" who take this away from "women", it's the system that encourages theft: the kleptocracy and its underlying ethics.

If we focus on making sure that everyone has their needs met (not through charity or handouts, but through jobs for most people) and how that can be accomplished, all of this manufactured divisiveness will eventually go away. People will stop seeing each other as competitors for scarce resources, and start thinking about our commonality.

So let's focus on what we have IN COMMON, and figure out how to get there. In other words, let's figure out

WHAT ARE AMERICA'S INTERESTS?

It's a discussion long-overdue.

G, THUGR, MAL4: Oh BTW, please define intelligence.
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Wednesday, November 9, 2016 11:08 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
I am sensing a pattern. Trump said the voting was rigged. I'm not so sure he will sponsor a Constitutional Amendment to correct Madison's rigging of the vote. - SECOND

OMG! You're anti-American! You want to destroy democracy! You must be trolling for Putin. Good job, comrade troll!

G, THUGR, MAL4: Oh BTW, please define intelligence.
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Wednesday, November 9, 2016 11:17 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:

Well, I guess the poking and prodding I felt helped unite many driving them to the polls. I voted for Clinton for many reasons but I get why Trump won. Now comes the consequences of an American Brexit.
If you want to be accurate, Trump lost by 0.2%. 47.7% for Hillary. 47.5% for Trump.
www.nytimes.com/elections/results/president

In Texas, Hillary got 3,848,617 votes or 43.5%. That translates into 0.0000 Electoral Votes thanks to James Madison, who wrote the US Constitution. Must have seemed perfectly fair to Madison, the slave owner, back in the day when no women could vote.
www.nytimes.com/elections/results/texas

In Florida, Hillary got 4,462,414 votes or 47.7%. That translates into 0.0000 Electoral Votes.
I am sensing a pattern. Trump said the voting was rigged. I'm not so sure he will sponsor a Constitutional Amendment to correct Madison's rigging of the vote.
www.nytimes.com/elections/results/florida

If you want to be accurate, Hilary will win the popular vote and lose the electoral. That's how it works.

P.S. Ignore SIG. She is confusing what she is with you. It's called transference.

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Wednesday, November 9, 2016 11:21 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
If you want to be accurate, Hilary will win the popular vote and lose the electoral. That's how it works.- THUGR

If you want to be accurate, the counting's not done yet, so why not wait for it to be completed before arguing about it?

Quote:
P.S. Ignore SIG. She is confusing what she is with you. It's called transference.= THUGR

Nope, just doing to SECOND what both of you did to me. It's not called "transference" it's called "taste of your own medicine".

I think YOU ALL OWE ME AND KIKI BIG FUCKING APOLOGIES, but you will never have the balls to do it. So I'm going to spend a week just being like you, GSTRING, MAL4, and KRAPO. Yanno, baseless personal attacks all the time. And THEN I'll go back to discussing the issues.

G, THUGR, MAL4: Oh BTW, please define intelligence.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60903&p=4#1
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Wednesday, November 9, 2016 11:31 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
I am sensing a pattern. Trump said the voting was rigged. I'm not so sure he will sponsor a Constitutional Amendment to correct Madison's rigging of the vote. - SECOND
OMG! You're anti-American! You want to destroy democracy! You must be trolling for Putin. Good job, comrade troll!

I will take your troll bait:

The Electoral College has been altered several times. One more time might make it right. If nobody gets a majority of the popular vote, as in this election, the candidates with the least number of popular votes get dropped, then the US has a runoff next week with who is left. No third party candidates. Only Hillary and Trump.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_College_(United_States)#Histor
y

May have been the losing side - Not convinced it was the wrong one.
www.reddit.com/r/firefly/comments/5c0u0n/current_mood/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Wednesday, November 9, 2016 11:37 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
The Electoral College has been altered several times. One more time might make it right. If nobody gets a majority of the popular vote, as in this election, the candidates with the least number of popular votes get dropped, then the US has a runoff next week with who is left. No third party candidates. Only Hillary and Trump. =SECOND

Nice dodge, comrade troll!

G, THUGR, MAL4: Oh BTW, please define intelligence.
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Wednesday, November 9, 2016 11:43 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
The Electoral College has been altered several times. One more time might make it right. If nobody gets a majority of the popular vote, as in this election, the candidates with the least number of popular votes get dropped, then the US has a runoff next week with who is left. No third party candidates. Only Hillary and Trump. =SECOND
Nice dodge, comrade troll!

Trump did not even get a majority of the Florida popular votes, for example, but he gets 100% of the Electoral Votes. That is less than fair.
www.nytimes.com/elections/results/florida

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Wednesday, November 9, 2016 11:57 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
If you want to be accurate, Hilary will win the popular vote and lose the electoral. That's how it works.- THUGR
If you want to be accurate, the counting's not done yet, so why not wait for it to be completed before arguing about it?

Quote:
P.S. Ignore SIG. She is confusing what she is with you. It's called transference.= THUGR
Nope, just doing to SECOND what both of you did to me. It's not called "transference" it's called "taste of your own medicine".

I think YOU ALL OWE ME AND KIKI BIG FUCKING APOLOGIES, but you will never have the balls to do it. So I'm going to spend a week just being like you, GSTRING, MAL4, and KRAPO. Yanno, baseless personal attacks all the time. And THEN I'll go back to discussing the issues.

She will win the popular vote because of the states being counted. What you are doing is not the same as what we did to you. SECOND myself and others here pointed out all the lies and bullshit ( doctored videos, photos and unreliable sources ) you were posting. Big difference SIG. And all the evidence of that still exists.

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Wednesday, November 9, 2016 1:13 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Trump did not even get a majority of the Florida popular votes, for example, but he gets 100% of the Electoral Votes. That is less than fair.
www.nytimes.com/elections/results/florida

You're doing Putin's bidding. And your sources are biased. But nice try, comrade!

G, THUGR, MAL4: Oh BTW, please define intelligence.
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Wednesday, November 9, 2016 3:23 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
Trump did not even get a majority of the Florida popular votes, for example, but he gets 100% of the Electoral Votes. That is less than fair.
www.nytimes.com/elections/results/florida
You're doing Putin's bidding. And your sources are biased. But nice try, comrade!

You're being a sophist, again, Signym, by writing untruths to win an argument. The Secretary of State for Florida, Ken Detzner, is counting the votes. Since he is a Republican, Detzner could be as biased as Katherine Harris, 1999–2002, who counted the votes in favor of George Bush in 2000. Bias is all in the direction toward Trump. Not so funny that Trump gets 49% of the popular votes but 100% of the electoral votes. Hillary gets 48% of the popular votes but 0% of the electoral votes. If Trumps receives only same percent of Florida's electoral votes as popular votes, he loses to Hillary. Funny how that works in Trump's favor.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secretary_of_State_of_Florida

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Thursday, November 10, 2016 7:37 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Clinton leads in the popular vote count. She should eventually win the popular vote by 1 to 2 percentage points, and perhaps somewhere on the order of 1.5 million to 2 million votes, once remaining mail-in ballots from California and Washington are counted, along with provisional ballots in other states.

What would have happened if just 1 out of every 100 voters shifted from Trump to Clinton? We’d have wound up with this result in the Electoral College instead:

Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and Florida flip back to Clinton, giving her a total of 307 electoral votes. And she’d have won the popular vote by 3 to 4 percentage points, right where the final national polls had the race and in line with Obama’s margin of victory in 2012. If this had happened, the interpretation of the outcome would have been very different — something like this, I’d imagine:

Republicans simply can’t appeal to enough voters to have a credible chance at the Electoral College. While states like Ohio and Iowa might be slipping away from Democrats, they’ll be more than made up for by the shift of Arizona, North Carolina and Florida into the blue column as demographic changes take hold. Democrats are the coalition of the ascendant.

The United States was more than ready for the first woman president. And they elected her immediately after the first African-American president. With further victories for liberals over the past several years on issues ranging from gay rights to the minimum wage, the arc of progress is unmistakable.

American political institutions are fairly robust. When a candidate like Trump undermines political norms and violates standards of decency, he’s punished by the voters.

In light of Trump’s narrow victory, these arguments sound extremely unconvincing. But they’re exactly what we would have been hearing if just 1 out of 100 voters had switched from Trump to Clinton.
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-a-difference-2-percentage-poi
nts-makes/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Thursday, November 10, 2016 11:32 AM

Woulda shoulda coulda SECOND. Totally irrelevant.

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Thursday, November 10, 2016 1:15 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
Woulda shoulda coulda SECOND. Totally irrelevant.

Perfectly relevant: Republican talk of a mandate, except Republicans do NOT talk about Hillary receiving more popular votes than Trump.

Hillary has 59,943,017 votes (47.7%)
Trump has 59,705,048 votes (47.5%)
Do you see that Hillary has more votes?
www.nytimes.com/elections/results/president

And Hillary's lead is expected to grow by another 1% when all ballots are counted across the nation.
www.nytimes.com/elections/forecast/president

It is relevant that Trump only got 49% (not 50%) of Florida's votes, but he receives 100% of Florida’s 29 electoral votes. Hillary has 48%. Nice system the Republican Secretary of State in Florida set up for committing voter fraud, just not the kind Trump was complaining about before he "won". Note the quotation marks.
www.nytimes.com/elections/results/florida

What is Florida’s Secretary of State doing by giving 100% of the electoral votes to the guy who did not even get 50% of popular vote? Some states reasoned that the favorite presidential candidate among the people in their state would have a much better chance if all of the electors selected by their state were sure to vote the same way – a "general ticket" of electors pledged to a party candidate. So the slate of electors chosen by the state were no longer free agents, independent thinkers, or deliberative representatives. They became "voluntary party lackeys and intellectual non-entities." Once one state took that strategy, the others felt compelled to follow suit in order to compete for the strongest influence on the election.

When James Madison and Hamilton, two of the most important architects of the Electoral College, saw this strategy being taken by some states, they protested strongly. Madison and Hamilton both made it clear that this approach violated the spirit of the Constitution.

Hamilton considered a pre-pledged elector to violate the spirit of Article II of the Constitution insofar as such electors could make no "analysis" or "deliberate" concerning the candidates. Madison agreed entirely, saying that when the Constitution was written, all of its authors assumed that individual electors would be elected in their districts and it was inconceivable that a "general ticket" of electors dictated by a state would supplant the concept. Madison wrote to George Hay:

Quote:
The district mode was mostly, if not exclusively in view when the Constitution was framed and adopted; & was exchanged for the general ticket many years later.

The Electoral College is NOT being used as it was designed. It is being used in Florida to get the Republican Party into the White House, despite who the majority wants.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_College_(United_States)#Evolut
ion_to_the_general_ticket

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Thursday, November 10, 2016 1:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
Woulda shoulda coulda SECOND. Totally irrelevant.
Perfectly relevant: Republican talk of a mandate, except Republicans do NOT talk about Hillary receiving more popular votes than Trump.

Hillary has 59,943,017 votes (47.7%)
Trump has 59,705,048 votes (47.5%)
Do you see that Hillary has more votes?
www.nytimes.com/elections/results/president

Sorry, I was speaking to the part of your post that if 1 in 100 would have done this or that, things would have been different.

If you get more votes in a state then you win the state. Electoral votes are based on the population of the state. Getting a lopsided amount of the vote in one state does not give an accurate picture of how the rest of the country feels. Nor does it matter.

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Thursday, November 10, 2016 2:27 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:

Sorry, I was speaking to the part of your post that if 1 in 100 would have done this or that, things would have been different.

If you get more votes in a state then you win the state. Electoral votes are based on the population of the state. Getting a lopsided amount of the vote in one state does not give an accurate picture of how the rest of the country feels. Nor does it matter.

I am not confident you understood from the answer you wrote. Maybe if I pick 3 more states as examples to show how it works in Trump’s favor?

www.nytimes.com/elections/forecast/president/michigan
Trump 47.6%
Hillary 47.3%
Nobody got 50% but Trump got 100% of electoral vote in Michigan.

www.nytimes.com/elections/forecast/president/wisconsin
Trump 47.9%
Hillary 46.9%
Nobody got 50% but Trump will get 100% of electoral vote in Wisconsin.

www.nytimes.com/elections/forecast/president/pennsylvania
Trump 48.7%
Hillary 47.7%
Nobody got 50% but Trump will get 100% of electoral vote in Pennsylvania.

That is three more states like Florida. Trump did not win a 50% majority in these states. Hillary is 1% behind, yet 100% of the electoral votes go to Trump. Does that seem fair?

We do know that Madison and Hamilton were so upset by what they saw as a distortion of the framers’ original intent that they advocated for a constitutional amendment to prevent the unfairness that continues until this day. Hamilton went further. He actually drafted an amendment to the Constitution that mandated the district plan for selecting electors.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_College_(United_States)#Evolut
ion_to_the_general_ticket

It can't be repeated too often: Trump lost the popular vote to Hillary. Why should a system that Madison and Hamilton knew the states were running unfairly give the White House to the loser, Donald J Trump?

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Thursday, November 10, 2016 2:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:

Sorry, I was speaking to the part of your post that if 1 in 100 would have done this or that, things would have been different.

If you get more votes in a state then you win the state. Electoral votes are based on the population of the state. Getting a lopsided amount of the vote in one state does not give an accurate picture of how the rest of the country feels. Nor does it matter.
I am not confident you understood from the answer you wrote. Maybe if I pick 3 more states as examples to show how it works in Trump’s favor?

www.nytimes.com/elections/forecast/president/michigan
Trump 47.6%
Hillary 47.3%
Nobody got 50% but Trump got 100% of electoral vote in Michigan.

www.nytimes.com/elections/forecast/president/wisconsin
Trump 47.9%
Hillary 46.9%
Nobody got 50% but Trump will get 100% of electoral vote in Wisconsin.

www.nytimes.com/elections/forecast/president/pennsylvania
Trump 48.7%
Hillary 47.7%
Nobody got 50% but Trump will get 100% of electoral vote in Pennsylvania.

That is three more states like Florida. Trump did not win a 50% majority in these states. Hillary is 1% behind, yet 100% of the electoral votes go to Trump. Does that seem fair?

Seeing this tells me I did understand. One more vote is a win SECOND it's the way it works. Now, if you look at the overall vote, the difference between the totals for Trump and Clinton don't come close to warrant us changing that.

California Trump votes 2,965,704 (33.2%) Clinton votes 5,481,885 (61.5%) The difference is 2,516,181 more for Clinton. The big states already dominate. It would only get worse.
____________________________________________

Russia trolls get contract extension
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60719

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Thursday, November 10, 2016 3:35 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:

Seeing this tells me I did understand. One more vote is a win SECOND it's the way it works. Now, if you look at the overall vote, the difference between the totals for Trump and Clinton don't come close to warrant us changing that.

California Trump votes 2,965,704 (33.2%) Clinton votes 5,481,885 (61.5%) The difference is 2,516,181 more for Clinton. The big states already dominate. It would only get worse.

California does NOT make a worthwhile point because one candidate has a lot more than 50%. 61.5% is Hillary definitely winning California. Trump "won" states, but with less than 50%. Why is 48% as good as 50%? Florida and those 3 other states have a stupid system because these states reasoned that the "favorite" presidential candidate (Trump) in their state would have a much better chance if all of the electors selected by their state were sure to vote for Trump even if Trump did not win a majority. 48% is now a majority. This stupid system does not need at least 50% to choose a favorite candidate. Any old number will do.

If Florida had 4 major candidates for President and all differed by only 1 vote, whoever received 25% of the popular vote (25% = 100%/4 candidates) is the "winner". If there was 5 major candidates the "winner" could have as few as 20% of the popular vote. (20% = 100%/5 candidates)

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Thursday, November 10, 2016 3:57 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by G:

Before the vote, and indeed in almost every election I've seen discussed, I've read complaints from both sides that the electoral college is outdated and unfair and needs to be replaced. That always happens right before a vote and right after, but dies away as the victor never wants to revisit how to do that after they've won.
For a country that seems to identify itself in the home of Individual rights, it's hard for me to understand any other system than One Citizen, One Vote - all votes with equal importance. Maybe next time.

The USA is not scrupulous about fixing errors in judgment written into the Constitution. A million people had to die in the Civil War before the 13th Amendment (slavery banned) was added. That amendment almost was NOT written. People had to be vigorously lobbied before they would understand that the USA would be fighting yet another Civil War in a few decades over the same problem -- slavery. They could NOT grasp that without the 13th Amendment the entire Civil War would have been fought in vain. Lincoln had to be assassinated to shake Legislatures out of their stupor over the need to ratify the 13th.

It is no surprise to me that the Electoral College, which has not worked as designed, has not been either corrected or removed from the Constitution.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Thursday, November 10, 2016 11:25 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Trump Warms to the Electoral College, 4 Years After Calling It “a Disaster for a Democracy”

Robert Mackey, Nov. 10 2016, 5:41 p.m.
https://theintercept.com/2016/11/10/trump-warms-electoral-college-4-ye
ars-calling-disaster-democracy/

Every four years, the bizarre, undemocratic institution at the heart of American democracy, the Electoral College, gets more vocal detractors. That is particularly the case in years like this one, when the mechanism awards the presidency to the runner-up in the national popular vote, Donald Trump.

“The majority of your fellow Americans wanted Hillary, not Trump,” Michael Moore wrote on Facebook post Wednesday. “The only reason he’s president is because of an arcane, insane 18th-century idea called the Electoral College.”

Urged on by Lady Gaga, more than a million people signed a petition on Thursday calling on the electors, when they meet next month, to ignore the current rules, which bind them to voting for the winner of their state and cast their ballots instead for the winner of the popular vote, Hillary Clinton.

While Clinton is ahead in the popular vote, and has a lead that is expected to grow, there is no reason to think any of the party loyalists appointed to those positions would even consider such a move. Still, it is remarkable that it would take just 38 electors from states that voted for Trump, or just the Texas delegation, to cast their votes the other way to make Clinton president.

The situation is mirrored to an extent by the fact that far more votes were cast on Tuesday for Democratic Senate candidates than Republicans — 45.3 million to 39.5 million at last count — yet the Democrats gained just two seats.

The widespread carping with the system is not new. As Five Thirty Eight reports, “there have been more proposed constitutional amendments to change the Electoral College than any other topic (700 proposals in Congress in the last 200 years!).” Gallup found in 2011 that 62 percent of Americans favor eliminating the institution.

To avoid the need for a Constitutional amendment, reformers have been working to get states to adopt the National Popular Vote bill, in which they promise to award their electoral votes to the candidate who receives the most popular votes nationally. So far, it has been enacted into law in 11 states, with a total of 165 electoral votes, and will take effect when adopted by states with 105 more, guaranteeing 270 electoral votes, a winning margin, to the popular vote winner.

In perhaps the supreme demonstration that Trump’s passionately stated views on politics are transactional, just four years ago, on the night that President Obama was declared the electoral-vote winner before all the ballots had been counted, the developer called for people take to the streets in “a revolution” to end the Electoral College.

Trump’s Twitter tirade that night was sparked by his mistaken belief that Mitt Romney had won the popular vote.

Minutes after the polls had closed on the West Coast that night, at 11 p.m Eastern Time, the broadcast networks called the election for Obama on the safe, and accurate, assumption that he would win overwhelmingly in California, Oregon and Washington. Clearly not understanding that these states would ensure that Obama would go on to win the popular vote, even though he was trailing in that count as the projection was made, Trump launched into a Twitter tirade.

Trump subsequently deleted some of those tweets, but screenshots were saved by several readers, including a New York magazine writer.

His final word on the subject from that night, calling the system “a disaster,” remains on the social network.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, November 11, 2016 1:08 AM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

You're being a sophist, again, Signym, by writing untruths to win an argument.

THIS from the LIAR IN CHIEF! DO YOU NEED TO BE REMINDED? MAYBE YOU DO!

Just in case you don't remember, I'll post a sampling of your lies, which, frankly, are every post of yours from beginning to end.

With links, quotes SPECIAL FONTS and footnotes for the edification of even the most dim-witted - or dishonest ...

You know I will ...

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Friday, November 11, 2016 2:32 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Trump Warms to the Electoral College, 4 Years After Calling It “a Disaster for a Democracy”

Oh look! Another second-hand opinion from a second-rate thinker!

Why do you hate democracy so much, SECOND?

G, THUGR, MAL4: Oh BTW, please define intelligence.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60903&p=4#1
018100

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Friday, November 11, 2016 2:34 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Before the vote, and indeed in almost every election I've seen discussed, I've read complaints from both sides that the electoral college is outdated and unfair and needs to be replaced. That always happens right before a vote and right after, but dies away as the victor never wants to revisit how to do that after they've won. = GSTRING

ANOTHER person who hates democracy!

Sheesh, after calling me a Putin-troll so often, it looks like YOU'RE the one who really hates the USA!

G, THUGR, MAL4: Oh BTW, please define intelligence.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60903&p=4#1
018100

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Friday, November 11, 2016 7:04 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
Trump Warms to the Electoral College, 4 Years After Calling It “a Disaster for a Democracy”
Oh look! Another second-hand opinion from a second-rate thinker!

Why do you hate democracy so much, SECOND?

What is your opinion of Trump receiving 48.7% of Pennsylvania's vote, Hillary receiving 47.7%, yet Trump will get 100% of electoral vote in Pennsylvania? Does that seem Democratic to you?
www.nytimes.com/elections/forecast/president/pennsylvania

With no one exceeding the magical 50% in a Democracy, why should Trump receive 100% of Pennsylvania's electoral votes? Is that really how a Democracy works?

Or another way is to ask Is Trump's 48.7% the new 50%?

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, November 11, 2016 12:29 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Trump Warms to the Electoral College, 4 Years After Calling It “a Disaster for a Democracy”= SECOND

Oh look! Another second-hand opinion from a second-rate thinker! Why do you hate democracy so much, SECOND? = SIGNY

What is your opinion of Trump receiving 48.7% of Pennsylvania's vote, Hillary receiving 47.7%, yet Trump will get 100% of electoral vote in Pennsylvania? Does that seem Democratic to you? www.nytimes.com/elections/forecast/president/pennsylvania With no one exceeding the magical 50% in a Democracy, why should Trump receive 100% of Pennsylvania's electoral votes? Is that really how a Democracy works? Or another way is to ask Is Trump's 48.7% the new 50%? = SECOND

That's funny, I didn't hear you complaining four years ago!

Quote:
In the 2012 presidential election, Mitt Romney won 48% of the popular vote but only 38% of the electoral vote.

Clearly you only like our democratic institutions when you get the results you want. That must be why you hate the thought of "America" so much, comrade troll.

G, THUGR, MAL4: Oh BTW, please define intelligence.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60903&p=4#1
018100

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Friday, November 11, 2016 1:56 PM