REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

TRUMP - Just because.....................Naw, I just can't say it!

POSTED BY: SHINYGOODGUY
UPDATED: Tuesday, July 23, 2024 11:14
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Sunday, October 2, 2016 12:17 PM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
So, tell me about what's OUT THERE REGARDING HILLARY. What makes her so good? (And avoid references to Donald, or your statement will cease to be about Hillary.)



Say, what was the title and topic of this thread again?

If you can't handle conversation about Trump, stay out of the Trump thread. There is a Hillary thread, ya know.

*smh*

Both of you - mashed potatoes from the forehead on back.



*-----------------------------------------------------------------*
Battle is the Great Redeemer. It is the fiery crucible in which true heroes are forged. The one place where all men truly share the same rank, regardless of what kind of parasitic scum they were going in.
*-----------------------------------------------------------------*


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Sunday, October 2, 2016 1:08 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


People who are supposedly Hillary supporters avoid the Hillary thread for some peculiar (cough cough fully-propagandized idiots cough cough) reason.

Which is why I post here, where they (you) can't claim they (you) didn't read it.

Besides, Trump is toast. Deader than a doornail. Circling the drain. And you're beating a dead horse.

But, go ahead and endlessly obsess over him if you want. I prefer to focus on something more relevant.




Let me just point out that the author left out vital relevant facts in the opinion piece. Doing that is known as cherry-picking. And whether you do that in the news, in discussion, in debate or in opinion, when you distort the facts, you've changed the nature of your communication into propaganda. But WE don't have any of THAT in the US, do we?!

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Sunday, October 2, 2016 1:15 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
People who are supposedly Hillary supporters avoid the Hillary thread for some peculiar (cough cough fully-propagandized idiots cough cough) reason.

Which is why I post here, where they (you) can't claim they (you) didn't read it.

Besides, Trump is toast. Deader than a doornail. Circling the drain. And you're beating a dead horse.

But, go ahead and endlessly obsess over him if you want. I prefer to focus on something more relevant.



I agree 1kiki. So why don't you concentrate on your elections in Russia. I hear they were rigged.

____________________________________________

Russia trolls get contract extension
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60719

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Sunday, October 2, 2016 7:23 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:

I've been saying for close to two months the Trump will not be elected.

So I'm glad you finally agree with me.

I do NOT agree with you. Trump has a chance of being elected. After the Republican convention his chances were 50%, a coin toss away from being President. One terror attack on Monday, Nov 7th and Trump will be back at 50% or more. Check it at http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/

In other news, Trump is a cheat:

I sold Trump $100,000 worth of pianos. Then he stiffed me.

My relationship with Trump began in 1989, when he asked me to supply several grand and upright pianos to his then-new Taj Mahal casino in Atlantic City. I’d been running a music store for more than 30 years at that point, selling instruments to local schools and residents. My business was very much a family affair (my grandsons still run the store). And I had a great relationship with my customers — no one had ever failed to pay.

I was thrilled to get a $100,000 contract from Trump. It was one of the biggest sales I’d ever made. I was supposed to deliver and tune the pianos; the Trump corporation would pay me within 90 days. I asked my lawyer if I should ask for payment upfront, and he laughed. “It’s Donald Trump!” he told me. “He’s got lots of money.”

But when I requested payment, the Trump corporation hemmed and hawed. Its executives avoided my calls and crafted excuses. After a couple of months, I got a letter telling me that the casino was short on funds. They would pay 70 percent of what they owed me. There was no negotiating. I didn’t know what to do — I couldn’t afford to sue the Trump corporation, and I needed money to pay my piano suppliers. So I took the $70,000.

Losing $30,000 was a big hit to me and my family. The profit from Trump was meant to be a big part of my salary for the year. So I made much less. There was no money to help grow my business. I had fewer pianos in the showroom and a smaller advertising budget. Because of Trump, my store stagnated for a couple of years. It made me feel really bad, like I’d been taken advantage of. I was embarrassed.
www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/09/28/i-sold-trump-10000
0-worth-of-pianos-then-he-stiffed-me/?tid=pm_opinions_pop_b&utm_term=.1df9b5d676f4

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Sunday, October 2, 2016 8:28 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.




I do NOT agree with you. Trump has a chance of being elected.
How low would Trump's chances have to go before you figured he was through? He's about 33% now. http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/election-update-the-craziest-end-t
o-the-2016-campaign-runs-through-new-mexico
/ Would 30% (close to where he is now) be 'safe' enough for you? 25% ? 5% ?


After the Republican convention his chances were 50%, a coin toss away from being President. One terror attack on Monday, Nov 7th and Trump will be back at 50% or more.
Trump is currently around 33% (see 538 above). The Paris attacks didn't seem to help him at all, while the San Bernardino attacks look like they helped him up from about 33% to maybe 36 - 37%. Considering he's back down at 33%, I don't think Orlando or NYC helped him enough (if at all). Considering the paltry past bump, which has already faded, unless it's a really YUGE terror attack, I don't see him getting significant mileage.






Let me just point out that the author left out vital relevant facts in the opinion piece. Doing that is known as cherry-picking. And whether you do that in the news, in discussion, in debate or in opinion, when you distort the facts, you've changed the nature of your communication into propaganda. But WE don't have any of THAT in the US, do we?!

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Monday, October 3, 2016 2:22 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


This is a vital and key statement Kiki - "excruciating detail."

I know how much you hate Hillary, that goes without saying. And, as far as the republican-held Congress, a blind man could see that they would continue the obstruction-do-nothing agenda, if Hillary should win.

But I stop at the "antagonizing Russia plus more foreign military adventurism." Other than the war in Afghanistan where else could the U.S.
"venture" into? You want credit for predicting months ago that her campaign promises are empty? GRANTED.

You win. You are the all-knowing and all-seeing political guru of the decade.

I will alert the others.


SGG

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Monday, October 3, 2016 2:52 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Quote:

(cough cough fully-propagandized idiots cough cough) reason.



Really!? I thought we were past this, but here you are insulting people, and then you wonder why folks lash out at you. All this because you have this obsession with Hillary and you want what exactly? For her supporters to state
her record in Congress, as the Secretary of State and as what? a human being?

I will speak for myself. It's just not that important to me. I concede, you know a lot more about Hillary than I do. But I just don't give a shit. I would have preferred Warren, or to draft Obama and override term limits.
But that's not how it works, and I know that. I accept that this country
works the way things have been established, there's a method to the madness.
If you have a better way, then do whatever to make it so.

When I complained on the RWED about Bush/Cheney. When I correctly predicted
war, I was told tough nuggies - he's been elected, so go F yourself (I'm paraphrasing, of course). I had to live with the fact that sometimes shit happens and there's nothing you could do about it. You want to bully people
into doing what you do and write a dissertation about Hillary, well I, for one, I'm out, I started to actually look at Hillary's record and it hit me. I don't see things the way you do. I don't need to explain myself to anyone, unless I want to. So, complain all you want, you're entitled. If I choose to write a response, that's my decision.

In the grand scheme of things, this is but a pimple on the butt of humankind.


SGG




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Monday, October 3, 2016 3:01 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Hey Mal4Prez,

It's official, call off the dogs - Kiki is now and forever the all-knowing and all-seeing wunderkind of the RWED. It's no use pretending that we know
anything, she has the market cornered on all things Hillary.

I may be over-reacting but, I'm truly tired. (actually, it was easy not mentioning you-know-who).


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
So, tell me about what's OUT THERE REGARDING HILLARY. What makes her so good? (And avoid references to Donald, or your statement will cease to be about Hillary.)



Say, what was the title and topic of this thread again?

If you can't handle conversation about Trump, stay out of the Trump thread. There is a Hillary thread, ya know.

*smh*

Both of you - mashed potatoes from the forehead on back.



*-----------------------------------------------------------------*
Battle is the Great Redeemer. It is the fiery crucible in which true heroes are forged. The one place where all men truly share the same rank, regardless of what kind of parasitic scum they were going in.
*-----------------------------------------------------------------*



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Monday, October 3, 2016 7:29 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


BILL CLINTON: SOCIOPATH
Bill is probably worse than Hillary. Bill had a history, if you recall, of getting state troopers and his security detail to pick out women and bring them to him, where he would force himself on them through a combination of intimidation, surprise, and glamor, then pay for their silence with government jobs. The number of troopers, reporters and investigators who could have testified against Clinton and who died of "unnatural causes" in the 1992-1994 timeframe is truly astounding. Here, you don't have to believe the story, just count the names...



To this day, Bill shares quite a bit of time with convicted pedophile Jeffrey Epstein, having taken a dozen flights WITHOUT his security detail on the "Lolita Express".

Quote:

“Bill Clinton … associated with a man like Jeffrey Epstein, who everyone in New York, certainly within his inner circles, knew was a pedophile. Why would a former president associate with a man like that?” said Conchita Sarnoff of the Washington, D.C.-based nonprofit Alliance to Rescue Victims of Trafficking, Fox reported. Ms. Sarnoff also authored a book on Mr. Epstein titled “TrafficKing.”

Mr. Epstein was arrested in 2005 and signed a plea agreement in 2007 with the U.S. Attorney’s Office, accepting a single charge of soliciting prostitution. He agreed to a 30-month sentence, registered as a “Tier 1” sex offender with the U.S. Virgin Islands and paid dozens of young girls under a federal statute providing for compensation to victims of child sexual abuse.


http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/may/14/bill-clinton-ditched-s
ecret-service-on-multiple-lo
/

HILLARY'S RESPONSE TO ALL THIS
Quote:

Hillary Clinton Is Not a Feminist
Since Hillary announced that her husband would be joining her on the campaign trail, people have been debating whether or not it’s fair for the GOP to attack Bill’s sexual misdeeds in order to indirectly attack her.

This makes sense. After all, we’re talking about a guy who has been accused of the sexual assault of more than ten women. Think about it: How is her appointing him really any different than if she’d appointed Bill Cosby?

But here’s the thing: The real issue isn’t whether or not to attack Bill to indirectly attack Hillary — it’s about directly attacking Hillary for how she herself treated the women involved.

Hillary Clinton claims to be pro-women, yet has actively worked to ruin lives of so many of them. She’s running on a “feminist platform” — she’s even dared to say that sexual-assault survivors have a “right to be believed” — despite the fact that what she did to the women who accused Bill went far beyond not believing them.

She attacked them.

When allegations of sexual misconduct emerged during Bill’s 1992 presidential run, she’s reported to have said “Who is going to find out? These women are trash. Nobody’s going to believe them.” Multiple people also report that she called the women “sluts” and “whores” — you know, for daring to be raped. A private investigator named Ivan Duda claims that, after Bill lost his second governor’s race, Hillary told him: “I want you to get rid of all these b****** he’s seeing . . . I want you to give me the names and addresses and phone numbers, and we can get them under control.”


http://www.nationalreview.com/article/429138/hillary-clinton-feminist-
bill-clinton-sexual-assault


And it's not like these suspicious activities stopped in 1995. The DNC staffer, Seth Rich, who was widely speculated to have been the source of 20,000 DNC emails sent to Wikileaks (i.e not Russia) was gunned down in an apparent "attempted robbery" ... although nothing was taken.

The investigation of Clinton's private email server, in which staff and Hillary herself demonstrated a concerted effort, with forethought and intent, to wipe and erase data (even after a subpoena was issued), was thoroughly compromised by Bill's "conversation" with DOJ Loretta Lynch and FBI Comey's handing out of criminal immunities to some TARGETS of the investigation for a crime which he says never happened... Ya gotta wonder, you really do.

And then there is this




HILLARY THE NEOCON
But the real reason for my fear and loathing of Hillary is not that's she evil- which I think she is - but that she's DANGEROUSLY DELUSIONAL. Hillary has personally and repeatedly attacked and antagonized Putin. The State Department, which will be HER State Department when she is elected, has openly written a letter of protest, demanding that Obama take a more "forceful" approach to ousting Assad from Syria ... thus allowing a jihadist takeover. The State Department- HER State Department - ran guns from Libyan jihadists to Syrian jihadists, via Turkey, after SHE successfully argued to destroy Libya.

The State Department - HER state department- fomented, and encouraged the coup in Ukraine. Victoria Nuland- HER hand-picked employee- said much more than "fuck the EU", she also talked about "birthing this thing [the coup]" and "making it [the coup] stick". Intent much? Victoria Nuland, Hillary's hand-picked Asst Scy State, has had long-running appointments through the Bush administration; her husband is (in)famous neocon Robert Kagan, who is co-founder of the neoconservative Project for the New American Century YOU MAY RECALL THAT PNAC HOUSED A NUMBER OF EQUALLY-REPREHENSIBLE NEOCONS UNDER THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION:

Quote:

Of the twenty-five people who signed the PNAC's founding statement of principles, ten went on to serve in the administration of U.S. President George W. Bush, including Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, and Paul Wolfowitz.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century

You were so correct to predict war under Cheney... er, I mean Bush... but you apparently haven't realized that Hillary's policy is very much the same as Bush/Cheney. By comparison, Obama is "neocon lite".

NUCLEAR WAR
At the very top of my list of things I'm voting on is

No nuclear war.

Everything else comes a far distant second. Nothing should be more important than that. Global warming is slow suicide, The fact that our economy is saddled with an unsupportable number of parasites at the top is a serious problem. But we won't be able to solve ANY of these things of it all goes up in a flash, or- worse yet- suffers slow radiation burn.

I haven't had to think about nuclear war since the Reagan administration negotiated the START treaty, when the number of nuclear warheads actually started going down.

During the debate, Trump renounced first use. (Then ,of course, he waffled because anybody who negotiates anything doesn't want to give away a point for free; even I know that.)

HILLARY WAS SILENT ON THE TOPIC. She thinks she can force Russia to back down everywhere by being more willing to blow up the world than Putin. Not only is this thinking vastly unethical, it is delusional. At some point, Russia will respond. Putin has said openly and repeatedly that in the next world war, the USA isn't going to sit this one out while everyone else gets destroyed.

Anyone who ignores that warning doesn't deserve to be in the White House, because that person is endangering all of us. Reagan knew better, so should Hillary.

--------------
I think it's time you disabused yourself of that pleasant little fairy tale about our fearless leaders being some sort of surrogate daddy or mommy, laying awake at night thinking about how to protect the kids. HA! In reality, they're thinking about who to sell them to so that they can get a few more shekels in their pockets.

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Monday, October 3, 2016 8:29 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:

Considering he's back down at 33%, I don't think Orlando or NYC helped him enough (if at all). Considering the paltry past bump, which has already faded, unless it's a really YUGE terror attack, I don't see him getting significant mileage.

Win or lose, you won't escape from Trumpism. There are a hundred thousand other elected Republican officials taking a dump on America this Monday morning in October. They aren't as famous as Trump, but they will be voting for him, they share his attitudes about money and foreigners, and they have power over American citizens right this moment, unlike Trump. There were already a bunch of little Trumps in powerful places before Big Trump goes down in electoral defeat.

The Death of Idealism
www.nytimes.com/2016/09/30/opinion/the-death-of-idealism.html
Trump was always a scuzzy version of the capitalist type. Somehow I got on the guest list of a few of the ’80s-era parties he hosted in the lobby of his skyscraper and would go for sociological entertainment. They were filled with the sort of B-grade celebrities and corrupt city officials who were desperate for any mention on the front and sixth pages of The New York Post.

As we saw Monday night, Trump now represents capitalism degraded to pure selfishness. He treats other people like objects and lies with abandon. Proud to be paying no taxes while others foot the bill, proud to have profited off the housing bust that caused so much suffering, he lacks even the barest conception of civic life and his responsibilities to it.

His ethos is: Get what I can for myself, and everyone else can take care of themselves. As Alexi Sargeant pointed out in First Things, “Trump’s policies, such as they are, usually come down to America breaking its promises.” Trump would have America break its promises to its NATO allies, Japan, its creditors, its trading partners and its own Constitution.

Trump reminds us — even those of us who champion capitalism — how corrosive capitalism can be when unaccompanied by a counterbalancing ethos of moral restraint.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, October 3, 2016 8:53 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Trump was always a scuzzy version of the capitalist type.
This is stupid beyond belief. ALL large capitalists are scuzzy. Bill Gates. George Soros. Jamie Dimon. LLoyd Blankfein. Dick Fuld (Lehman). John Stumpf (Well Fargo, latest criminality). Steve Jobs. Angelo Mozilo (Countrywide). Mark Carney. Warren Buffet. The Seven Dwarves (tobacco company CEOs). There are thousands .... hundreds of thousands... of scuzzy capitalist types, and the higher up you go in the food chain the scuzzier they get.

Trump, by comparison, is a boyscout. And what he says hasn't changed much... he thinks America is being ripped off.





--------------
I think it's time you disabused yourself of that pleasant little fairy tale about our fearless leaders being some sort of surrogate daddy or mommy, laying awake at night thinking about how to protect the kids. HA! In reality, they're thinking about who to sell them to so that they can get a few more shekels in their pockets.

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Monday, October 3, 2016 8:55 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.



BILL CLINTON: SOCIOPATH
Bill is probably worse than Hillary. Bill had a history, if you recall, of getting state troopers and his security detail to pick out women and bring them to him, where he would force himself on them through a combination of intimidation, surprise, and glamor, then pay for their silence with government jobs. The number of troopers, reporters and investigators who could have testified against Clinton and who died of "unnatural causes" in the 1992-1994 timeframe is truly astounding. Here, you don't have to believe the story, just count the names...



To this day, Bill shares quite a bit of time with convicted pedophile Jeffrey Epstein, having taken a dozen flights WITHOUT his security detail on the "Lolita Express".

Quote:

“Bill Clinton … associated with a man like Jeffrey Epstein, who everyone in New York, certainly within his inner circles, knew was a pedophile. Why would a former president associate with a man like that?” said Conchita Sarnoff of the Washington, D.C.-based nonprofit Alliance to Rescue Victims of Trafficking, Fox reported. Ms. Sarnoff also authored a book on Mr. Epstein titled “TrafficKing.”

Mr. Epstein was arrested in 2005 and signed a plea agreement in 2007 with the U.S. Attorney’s Office, accepting a single charge of soliciting prostitution. He agreed to a 30-month sentence, registered as a “Tier 1” sex offender with the U.S. Virgin Islands and paid dozens of young girls under a federal statute providing for compensation to victims of child sexual abuse.


http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/may/14/bill-clinton-ditched-s
ecret-service-on-multiple-lo
/

HILLARY'S RESPONSE TO ALL THIS
Quote:

Hillary Clinton Is Not a Feminist
Since Hillary announced that her husband would be joining her on the campaign trail, people have been debating whether or not it’s fair for the GOP to attack Bill’s sexual misdeeds in order to indirectly attack her.

This makes sense. After all, we’re talking about a guy who has been accused of the sexual assault of more than ten women. Think about it: How is her appointing him really any different than if she’d appointed Bill Cosby?

But here’s the thing: The real issue isn’t whether or not to attack Bill to indirectly attack Hillary — it’s about directly attacking Hillary for how she herself treated the women involved.

Hillary Clinton claims to be pro-women, yet has actively worked to ruin lives of so many of them. She’s running on a “feminist platform” — she’s even dared to say that sexual-assault survivors have a “right to be believed” — despite the fact that what she did to the women who accused Bill went far beyond not believing them.

She attacked them.

When allegations of sexual misconduct emerged during Bill’s 1992 presidential run, she’s reported to have said “Who is going to find out? These women are trash. Nobody’s going to believe them.” Multiple people also report that she called the women “sluts” and “whores” — you know, for daring to be raped. A private investigator named Ivan Duda claims that, after Bill lost his second governor’s race, Hillary told him: “I want you to get rid of all these b****** he’s seeing . . . I want you to give me the names and addresses and phone numbers, and we can get them under control.”


http://www.nationalreview.com/article/429138/hillary-clinton-feminist-
bill-clinton-sexual-assault


And it's not like these suspicious activities stopped in 1995. The DNC staffer, Seth Rich, who was widely speculated to have been the source of 20,000 DNC emails sent to Wikileaks (i.e not Russia) was gunned down in an apparent "attempted robbery" ... although nothing was taken.

The investigation of Clinton's private email server, in which staff and Hillary herself demonstrated a concerted effort, with forethought and intent, to wipe and erase data (even after a subpoena was issued), was thoroughly compromised by Bill's "conversation" with DOJ Loretta Lynch and FBI Comey's handing out of criminal immunities to some TARGETS of the investigation for a crime which he says never happened... Ya gotta wonder, you really do.

And then there is this




HILLARY THE NEOCON
But the real reason for my fear and loathing of Hillary is not that's she evil- which I think she is - but that she's DANGEROUSLY DELUSIONAL. Hillary has personally and repeatedly attacked and antagonized Putin. The State Department, which will be HER State Department when she is elected, has openly written a letter of protest, demanding that Obama take a more "forceful" approach to ousting Assad from Syria ... thus allowing a jihadist takeover. The State Department- HER State Department - ran guns from Libyan jihadists to Syrian jihadists, via Turkey, after SHE successfully argued to destroy Libya.

The State Department - HER state department- fomented, and encouraged the coup in Ukraine. Victoria Nuland- HER hand-picked employee- said much more than "fuck the EU", she also talked about "birthing this thing [the coup]" and "making it [the coup] stick". Intent much? Victoria Nuland, Hillary's hand-picked Asst Scy State, has had long-running appointments through the Bush administration; her husband is (in)famous neocon Robert Kagan, who is co-founder of the neoconservative Project for the New American Century YOU MAY RECALL THAT PNAC HOUSED A NUMBER OF EQUALLY-REPREHENSIBLE NEOCONS UNDER THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION:

Quote:

Of the twenty-five people who signed the PNAC's founding statement of principles, ten went on to serve in the administration of U.S. President George W. Bush, including Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, and Paul Wolfowitz.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century

You were so correct to predict war under Cheney... er, I mean Bush... but you apparently haven't realized that Hillary's policy is very much the same as Bush/Cheney. By comparison, Obama is "neocon lite".

NUCLEAR WAR
At the very top of my list of things I'm voting on is

No nuclear war.

Everything else comes a far distant second. Nothing should be more important than that. Global warming is slow suicide, The fact that our economy is saddled with an unsupportable number of parasites at the top is a serious problem. But we won't be able to solve ANY of these things of it all goes up in a flash, or- worse yet- suffers slow radiation burn.

I haven't had to think about nuclear war since the Reagan administration negotiated the START treaty, when the number of nuclear warheads actually started going down.

During the debate, Trump renounced first use. (Then ,of course, he waffled because anybody who negotiates anything doesn't want to give away a point for free; even I know that.)

HILLARY WAS SILENT ON THE TOPIC. She thinks she can force Russia to back down everywhere by being more willing to blow up the world than Putin. Not only is this thinking vastly unethical and fully sociopathic, it is delusional. At some point, Russia will respond. Putin has said openly and repeatedly that in the next world war, the USA isn't going to sit this one out while everyone else gets destroyed.

Anyone who ignores that warning doesn't deserve to be in the White House, because that person is endangering all of us. Reagan knew better, so should Hillary.


--------------
I think it's time you disabused yourself of that pleasant little fairy tale about our fearless leaders being some sort of surrogate daddy or mommy, laying awake at night thinking about how to protect the kids. HA! In reality, they're thinking about who to sell them to so that they can get a few more shekels in their pockets.

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Monday, October 3, 2016 12:18 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



Win or lose, you won't escape from Trumpism.

So now you're agreeing with me that it's NOT about Trump, specifically. Ok. You can stop posting about TRUMP'S deals, and TRUMP'S business, and TRUMP'S tax returns, and TRUMP'S ... hands.

It's time to move the focus off of Donald Trump the candidate, and on to creating a relevant opposing narrative.

What can CLINTON do to improve her standing and make her positions relevant to more Americans? How can she help defeat TrumpISM across the country?




Let me just point out that the author left out vital relevant facts in the opinion piece. Doing that is known as cherry-picking. And whether you do that in the news, in discussion, in debate or in opinion, when you distort the facts, you've changed the nature of your communication into propaganda. But WE don't have any of THAT in the US, do we?!

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Monday, October 3, 2016 5:05 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Part of me is still shocked that this man is a presidential candidate - really? But then I see this phenomenon world wide - the growth of populist extremism - a whole raft of disconnected views often xenophobic in nature dressed up as 'Common man' rhetoric. Where have we seen this before in history? In some ways I do truly blame he Internet for enabling them this world wide misinformation campaign to be spread and anborb d so widely. What can you do? Gut reactions take precedence over fact, exposure over morality. I'll wait to see what happens but I don't have confidence that this clown won't end up as president and then what?

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Monday, October 3, 2016 5:20 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Quote:

Win or lose, you won't escape from Trumpism.

So now you're agreeing with me that it's NOT about Trump, specifically. Ok. You can stop posting about TRUMP'S deals, and TRUMP'S business, and TRUMP'S tax returns, and TRUMP'S ... hands.

It's time to move the focus off of Donald Trump the candidate, and on to creating a relevant opposing narrative.

What can CLINTON do to improve her standing and make her positions relevant to more Americans? How can she help defeat TrumpISM across the country?

There are no combinations of words spoken by Hillary, or any single politician, that will defeat Trumpism. She is on the ballot for one office only. The hundred thousand other offices held by little Trumps will have to be argued and won by a hundred thousand Democrats who are not Hillary. Trumpism is what the majority of Americans want and that is what they have been voting for in the past. Big Trump might lose, but only because he is the most obnoxious character of the 21st century GOP. He is worse than Ted Cruz, who is a really obnoxious Texan receiving 25% of the vote to Trump's 45%.

There is no magical incantation that Bernie, or a Presidential candidate, or even a President, can chant to change Americans and what they want. Nixon, for example, was not beaten because JFK was a smooth-talker making his "positions relevant to more Americans" or JFK "created a relevant opposing narrative". Nixon lost by few votes because he looked creepy on TV. The vote was 49.72% to 49.55%. Nixon learned his lesson, used TV actor makeup, and won two elections.

Americans really wanted the awful Nixon and they got him. Americans really want the awful Trump, but they might not vote for him because, personally, he looks like such a creep. In the next election, the GOP will find someone who looks less creepy and he will win. I think it is impossible that the Democrats would win the White House four elections in a row. I think Hillary will be a one-term President no matter what she does or says. On average, Americans like the GOP. The Democrats only have a chance because Republicans are failures at running the government. If the GOP ever got remotely competent, it would never lose an election, as is the case in Texas.

Here is a story about Trump's special creepiness that might defeat him:
Art of the Steal
www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/10/03/art-of-the-steal-this-is-how
-trump-lost-916m-and-avoided-tax.html


Trump’s casino business in Atlantic City was a spectacular catastrophe by the early 1990s. This is likely the ultimate source of most of the $915 billion loss declared on his 1995 return.

Meanwhile, Trump had taken out loans worth $3 billion that he would never be able to repay. Fortunately for Trump, he was able to force his bankers to bail him out by forgiving almost $1 billion of the $3 billion.

Forgiven loans are legally taxable income. In this case, Trump’s nearly $1 billion in losses should have canceled out the nearly $1 billion in forgiven loans — leaving him no losses to cancel out future income and thereby avoid taxes.

However, Congress created a special loophole in the mid-’90s that let real estate developers exchange the tax liability on forgiven debt for reduced tax depreciation allowances on their property in the future. That would mean that Trump could keep his losses for use later, at the cost of increasing his tax bill in the future (since his casinos would have to pay higher taxes due to their reduced depreciation exemptions).

But in 1995, Trump created a company called Trump Hotels and Casino Resorts, and sold stock in it. And Trump Hotels and Casino Resorts became the legal owner of his casinos, not Trump himself. So Trump kept the upside (i.e., the losses he could use to cancel out future income and avoid taxes) while transferring the downside (the more heavily-taxed casino property) to the company’s shareholders.

Trump shows no sign that he believes the government should protect shareholders from ruthless businessmen willing to screw them. In fact, just the opposite — his core belief is that we need to get the government off the backs of long-suffering entrepreneurs like himself.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, October 3, 2016 6:36 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by MAGONSDAUGHTER:
Part of me is still shocked that this man is a presidential candidate - really? But then I see this phenomenon world wide - the growth of populist extremism - a whole raft of disconnected views often xenophobic in nature dressed up as 'Common man' rhetoric. Where have we seen this before in history? In some ways I do truly blame he Internet for enabling them this world wide misinformation campaign to be spread and anborb d [?] so widely. What can you do? Gut reactions take precedence over fact, exposure over morality. I'll wait to see what happens but I don't have confidence that this clown won't end up as president and then what?



And then we won't have a death-wish neocon in office.

I wonder, MAGONS, what part of the internet, exactly, do you think is "misinformation"? Is it the part where Bill Clinton is a serial rapist, or the part where Hillary is a woman-hating neocon-in-drag who referred to Sanders supporters as "basement dwellers" and "baristas"? Or is it the part where Trump is a self-aggrandizing know-nothing who represents all of the worst that our capitalist class can offer?

--------------
I think it's time you disabused yourself of that pleasant little fairy tale about our fearless leaders being some sort of surrogate daddy or mommy, laying awake at night thinking about how to protect the kids. HA! In reality, they're thinking about who to sell them to so that they can get a few more shekels in their pockets.

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Monday, October 3, 2016 6:40 PM

ELVISCHRIST


It's funny to listen to the Republicans who are suckered onto Trump's asshole like remoras try to explain that his gaming of the system is "genius" (both Christie and Giuliani used that word), but that any so-called "welfare queen" would be despicable for gaming the system in a similar fashion.

There is literally no amount of his shit they won't swallow, and the GOP and the worthless teabaggers are all queueing up to get their shitbuckets filled.

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Monday, October 3, 2016 7:31 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by ElvisChrist:
It's funny to listen to the Republicans who are suckered onto Trump's asshole like remoras try to explain that his gaming of the system is "genius" (both Christie and Giuliani used that word), but that any so-called "welfare queen" would be despicable for gaming the system in a similar fashion.

There is literally no amount of his shit they won't swallow, and the GOP and the worthless teabaggers are all queueing up to get their shitbuckets filled.



He lost a billion dollars in one year, some genius. It's the kind of spin we hear from 1kiki and SIG all day every day here. Bait and switch.

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Tuesday, October 4, 2016 2:10 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



There are no combinations of words spoken by Hillary, or any single politician, that will defeat Trumpism.


JFK did democrats a solid for decades to come in under two years.

FDR cast an even longer shadow. He really did re-write the contract between citizens and their government, and gave us a new deal, or, as he put it, a New Deal.

Creating a new paradigm isn't impossible, just very difficult. You have to have a vision that speaks to people's issues. You have to have a plan to carry out your vision. And you have to publicly put yourself on the line for it, so people know you're walking your talk.

What do you think HRC should do to galvanize people?




Let me just point out that the author left out vital relevant facts in the opinion piece. Doing that is known as cherry-picking. And whether you do that in the news, in discussion, in debate or in opinion, when you distort the facts, you've changed the nature of your communication into propaganda. But WE don't have any of THAT in the US, do we?!

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Tuesday, October 4, 2016 4:32 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Corporate welfare is only outdone by corporate greed. It's amazing how "they" swallow it hook, line and sinker.

Absolute power corrupts absolutely! But don't forget kiddies - on top of that, he wants to cut the estate tax, etc. Mo' money, mo' money!!
Remember we're all just folk!


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by ElvisChrist:
It's funny to listen to the Republicans who are suckered onto Trump's asshole like remoras try to explain that his gaming of the system is "genius" (both Christie and Giuliani used that word), but that any so-called "welfare queen" would be despicable for gaming the system in a similar fashion.

There is literally no amount of his shit they won't swallow, and the GOP and the worthless teabaggers are all queueing up to get their shitbuckets filled.


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Tuesday, October 4, 2016 4:33 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


The reason why I bring up Hillary's and Bill's sordid past isn't to say that Trump is ethically better than they are, but that personally and morally, as I said, they're a wash. It would be hard to decide on the basis of who is the "better" person.

And although I think that Trump has a better grasp of what Americans need (more production, less globalism) I think he doesn't have a complete grasp of how to get there.

So given that neither their ethics or their economic policies are likely to be deciding factors, what DO we decide on? Well, as I've said, not having a death-wish neocon in office is a good start. If the USA can retain it's sovereign decision-making powers and not turn them over to banks and international corporate consortiums, or not be vaporized into a wisp of radioactive ash, then I'd be willing to go tooth-and-nail over domestic policies. But the thought of MORE WAR is enough to turn me away from Hillary.

---------------

KIKI, people need a vision. But what would heal this nation isn't what millenials want to hear. They're not going to become millionaires via the internet or change the world with essential oils or have the next Great Idea. Individualism isn't the ONLY goal of society, and endlessly checking in with Instagram and Twitter and FB isn't going to make our economy or society progress. We're not going to do anything to stop ourselves from heating up the planet to unlivable temperatures because we've been told that it's our god-given right to be completely passive and self-centered consumers.

We CAN fix this nation, but it would take such a major reorientation of assumptions and goals it would be hard to imagine that ever coming about.

Still, FWIW this is what I think is necessary:

Withdraw from all current "free trade" agreements
Tariff imports (variable tariffs)
Create a true national Central Bank, not The Fed
Raise interest rates
Require progressively greater and greater bank capitalization, until we approach 100%
Reintroduce Glass Steagal; disallow any savings banks from investing in derivatives and other complex financial "products"
Develop a reindustrialization and infrastructure regeneration policy by allowing our newly-nationalized Central Bank and attendant State Banks to loan - at low interest rates - to environmental restoration, infrastructural renovation, and re-industrialization
Create Post Office banks
Simplify the tax code; tax the wealthy at higher effective rates than the middle class

Implement the following all-or-nothing immigration reform:
A path to citizenship to all current illegal immigrants (provided they learn English and haven't broken any laws except immigration laws, and have bee resident since the last amnesty) and PROVIDED that we
Make English the official language
Abolish the 14th Amendment to make American citizens the children of American citizens, and disallow "birthright" citizenship
Adopt a non-interventionist foreign policy, not only in Central and South America but all over the world

Adopt a no-first-use nuclear policy, and renegotiate continued reduction in nuclear weapons
Over time, withdraw troops from, and close bases in, nations all over the world
Create a true national healthcare system
Reinvest in education, especially in impoverished areas
Fire most of the current NSA, CIA and State Department staff

Of course, in order to do this the top 0.01% would have to become politically disabled. Since almost everyone - including liberals- are so smitten with the uber-wealthy,I doubt there would be political will to do even a fraction of what is necessary, and any major political figure who attempted this would be assassinated.



--------------
I think it's time you disabused yourself of that pleasant little fairy tale about our fearless leaders being some sort of surrogate daddy or mommy, laying awake at night thinking about how to protect the kids. HA! In reality, they're thinking about who to sell them to so that they can get a few more shekels in their pockets.

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Tuesday, October 4, 2016 8:24 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


What will President Trump do with a majority in the House and 60 Senators?
1. Huge tax cuts for the wealthy.
2. Savage cuts in aid to the poor.

Hillary won’t. Those two differences makes my decision easy.

If I was a different person, I'd be complaining that my taxes are too high and the poor need to improve their skills and get a job, any job at low wages, and stop being a burden on wealthy me. I don’t have 1kiki’s and Signym’s complex concerns:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:

Creating a new paradigm isn't impossible, just very difficult. You have to have a vision that speaks to people's issues. You have to have a plan to carry out your vision. And you have to publicly put yourself on the line for it, so people know you're walking your talk.

What do you think HRC should do to galvanize people?


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
The reason why I bring up Hillary's and Bill's sordid past isn't to say that Trump is ethically better than they are, but that personally and morally, as I said, they're a wash. It would be hard to decide on the basis of who is the "better" person.

So given that neither their ethics or their economic policies are likely to be deciding factors, what DO we decide on?

Of course, in order to do this the top 0.01% would have to become politically disabled. Since almost everyone - including liberals- are so smitten with the uber-wealthy,I doubt there would be political will to do even a fraction of what is necessary, and any major political figure who attempted this would be assassinated.



The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, October 4, 2016 9:32 AM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
The reason why I bring up Hillary's and Bill's sordid past isn't to say that Trump is ethically better than they are, but that personally and morally, as I said, they're a wash. It would be hard to decide on the basis of who is the "better" person.




Yeah but he's not. He's much worse. The guy is morally bankrupt. So bull Sig, bull. You're selling your propaganda but no one is buying. 17 pages in this thread alone and not one convert. You even suggesting this shows you're morally bankrupt yourself; sad.

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Tuesday, October 4, 2016 11:16 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


The hallmark of a skilled politician is the ability to speak to a group of people holding widely disparate views, and have all of them walk away believing they heard what they wanted to hear. Other than Bill Clinton, I've personally never seen a politician even in the same league as Barack Obama when it comes to that ability. His most consequential speeches are shaped by their simultaneous affirmation of conflicting values and even antithetical beliefs, allowing listeners with irreconcilable positions to conclude that Obama agrees with them.

The highly touted speech Obama delivered on US terrorism policy was a master class in that technique. If one longed to hear that the end of the "war on terror" is imminent, there are several good passages that will be quite satisfactory. If one wanted to hear that the war will continue indefinitely, perhaps even in expanded form, one could easily have found that. And if one wanted to know that the president who has spent years killing people in multiple countries around the world feels personal "anguish" and moral conflict as he does it, because these issues are so very complicated, this speech will be like a gourmet meal.

While the last president exuded a cowboyish certainty, this president is constantly examining his conscience in public — but if their policies are basically the same, the latter is no less of a performance. And there are ways in which it may be a more fundamentally dishonest one, because it perpetually promises harmonies that can't be achieved and policy shifts that won't actually be delivered.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/may/27/obama-war-on-terror-spee
ch


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Tuesday, October 4, 2016 11:40 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



What will President Trump do with a majority in the House and 60 Senators?

60 Senators? Really? Where did you get THAT number? Minds based in reality want to know!




Let me just point out that the author left out vital relevant facts in the opinion piece. Doing that is known as cherry-picking. And whether you do that in the news, in discussion, in debate or in opinion, when you distort the facts, you've changed the nature of your communication into propaganda. But WE don't have any of THAT in the US, do we?!

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Tuesday, October 4, 2016 11:57 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Since I don't have time to wait around for a reply, in any case, current projections are that republicans will lose either 4 or 5 senate seats. So all that twaddle about Trump in the WH and republicans with 60 Senate seats is just nonsense.

Can we PLEASE have a discussion at least SOMEwhat based in reality? Is that too much to ask?




Let me just point out that the author left out vital relevant facts in the opinion piece. Doing that is known as cherry-picking. And whether you do that in the news, in discussion, in debate or in opinion, when you distort the facts, you've changed the nature of your communication into propaganda. But WE don't have any of THAT in the US, do we?!

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Tuesday, October 4, 2016 12:09 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


What's the meme that people can engage with?
For FDR it was the New Deal. For JFK it was the race to be first on the moon, to achieve great things. For Obama it was 'Hope and Change', but then, he was a corporate shill and Constitution-busting neo-con in democrat clothing who rightfully lost Congress and governorships galore when it became apparent he intended to keep zero of his promises - halfway through his first term.
On the flip side for Reagan - the democrats took as real hit halfway through his second term and haven't recovered since - it was It's Morning Again in America


We CAN fix this nation, but it would take such a major reorientation of assumptions and goals it would be hard to imagine that ever coming about.

Still, FWIW this is what I think is necessary:

Withdraw from all current "free trade" agreements
Tariff imports (variable tariffs)
Create a true national Central Bank, not The Fed
Raise interest rates
Require progressively greater and greater bank capitalization, until we approach 100%
Reintroduce Glass Steagal; disallow any savings banks from investing in derivatives and other complex financial "products"
Develop a reindustrialization and infrastructure regeneration policy by allowing our newly-nationalized Central Bank and attendant State Banks to loan - at low interest rates - to environmental restoration, infrastructural renovation, and re-industrialization
Create Post Office banks
Simplify the tax code; tax the wealthy at higher effective rates than the middle class

Implement the following all-or-nothing immigration reform:
A path to citizenship to all current illegal immigrants (provided they learn English and haven't broken any laws except immigration laws, and have bee resident since the last amnesty) and PROVIDED that we
Make English the official language
Abolish the 14th Amendment to make American citizens the children of American citizens, and disallow "birthright" citizenship
Adopt a non-interventionist foreign policy, not only in Central and South America but all over the world

Adopt a no-first-use nuclear policy, and renegotiate continued reduction in nuclear weapons
Over time, withdraw troops from, and close bases in, nations all over the world
Create a true national healthcare system
Reinvest in education, especially in impoverished areas
Fire most of the current NSA, CIA and State Department staff

Of course, in order to do this the top 0.01% would have to become politically disabled. Since almost everyone - including liberals- are so smitten with the uber-wealthy,I doubt there would be political will to do even a fraction of what is necessary, and any major political figure who attempted this would be assassinated.






Let me just point out that the author left out vital relevant facts in the opinion piece. Doing that is known as cherry-picking. And whether you do that in the news, in discussion, in debate or in opinion, when you distort the facts, you've changed the nature of your communication into propaganda. But WE don't have any of THAT in the US, do we?!

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Tuesday, October 4, 2016 12:21 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

The reason why I bring up Hillary's and Bill's sordid past isn't to say that Trump is ethically better than they are, but that personally and morally, as I said, they're a wash. It would be hard to decide on the basis of who is the "better" person.- SIGNY

Yeah but he's not. He's much worse.- THUGR



“I was 35 years old when Bill Clinton, Ark. Attorney General raped me and Hillary tried to silence me."


Quote:

Juanita Broaddrick: ‘Hillary has to be made accountable’

WASHINGTON

Juanita Broaddrick, who accused former President Bill Clinton of assaulting her nearly four decades ago, said this week that Hillary Clinton needs to be held accountable for the comments she made about the women who accused her husband of sexual misconduct.

“It’s degradable...she needs to be held accountable for all of the things she did to us,” Broaddrick told AM560 “The Answer” hosts Dan Proft and Amy Jacobson for Upstream Ideas.

Broaddrick, a former Arkansas nursing home administrator who worked on Bill Clinton’s gubernatorial campaign and supports Donald Trump this year, said she decided to speak out about Hillary Clinton after she tweeted last year that sexual abuse victims had a right to be believed.

Every survivor of sexual assault deserves to be heard, believed, and supported. https://t.co/mkD69RHeBL
— Hillary Clinton (@HillaryClinton) November 23, 2015


“I did not set out to do this. I did not start out supporting Donald Trump,” Broaddrick said in the interview. “I was only responding to a tweet Hillary Clinton sent out about all victims of sexual abuse should come forward and be believed...“Shame on her. Her of all people should not make that comment.”

In January, Broaddrick tweeted: “I was 35 years old when Bill Clinton, Ark. Attorney General raped me and Hillary tried to silence me. I am now 73....it never goes away.”


http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/election/article10
5838942.html#storylink=hpdigest


--------------
I think it's time you disabused yourself of that pleasant little fairy tale about our fearless leaders being some sort of surrogate daddy or mommy, laying awake at night thinking about how to protect the kids. HA! In reality, they're thinking about who to sell them to so that they can get a few more shekels in their pockets.

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Tuesday, October 4, 2016 12:31 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Add... "Raise the minimum wage" to the above list

================

KIKI - Just to get back to your estimations of where the Senate and WH are going to be after Nov 8, it seems as if Congress could stonewall a Republican President as easily as it could stonewall a Democratic one.

Which leaves the President, whoever it is, a few avenues of (almost) sure-fire authority:

Foreign policy
Military authority as Commander-in-Chief
Regulatory changes through administration authority
Executive orders.


--------------
I think it's time you disabused yourself of that pleasant little fairy tale about our fearless leaders being some sort of surrogate daddy or mommy, laying awake at night thinking about how to protect the kids. HA! In reality, they're thinking about who to sell them to so that they can get a few more shekels in their pockets.

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Tuesday, October 4, 2016 1:32 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

The reason why I bring up Hillary's and Bill's sordid past isn't to say that Trump is ethically better than they are, but that personally and morally, as I said, they're a wash. It would be hard to decide on the basis of who is the "better" person.- SIGNY

Yeah but he's not. He's much worse.- THUGR



Quote SIG

“I was 35 years old when Bill Clinton, Ark. Attorney General raped me.



This is one of the reasons you have no credibility and come off looking like a nut. There are thousands more posts in these threads by you that also reinforce you being nuts.

Despite all your experience in mounting an argument you can't seem to learn that cutting and pasting extreme and false narratives is a losing strategy. And it is why nobody has to read the book length posts you are known for. There are always things in your posts others can point to that make you look stupid. Many times you even underline them and make them easy to find.
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Tuesday, October 4, 2016 1:51 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Quote:

What will President Trump do with a majority in the House and 60 Senators?
60 Senators? Really? Where did you get THAT number? Minds based in reality want to know!

51 Senators is enough to pass a bill. 60 is enough to pass without the possibility of a filibuster. Republicans hold 54 Senate seats at this moment.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filibuster_in_the_United_States_Senate

But wait, 1kiki! there is more! On November 21, 2013, the Senate used the so-called "nuclear option," voting 52-48, to eliminate the use of the filibuster on executive branch nominees and judicial nominees other than to the Supreme Court.

1kiki, did you notice that it only took 52 Senators in this real example to partially abolish the filibuster rules? It actually only takes 51 Republican Senators to pass the "nuclear option" abolishing the filibuster completely. There would be nothing the Democrats could do to stop President Trump and his 51% Republican majority in Congress from passing whatever they please.
www.nytimes.com/2013/11/22/us/politics/reid-sets-in-motion-steps-to-li
mit-use-of-filibuster.html


Obviously, if Hillary is President then the Republican majority will NOT abolish the filibuster because the filibuster is the perfect Republican tool to sabotage the USA.

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Tuesday, October 4, 2016 2:16 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


“I was 35 years old when Bill Clinton, Ark. Attorney General raped me and Hillary tried to silence me."


Quote:

This is one of the reasons you have no credibility and come off looking like a nut. There are thousands more posts in these threads by you that also reinforce you being nuts. I love it.-THUGR


I know that you and KPO and G are very "source driven"; you tend to disbelieve sources that you're not familiar with and believe sources that are comfortable and accustomed.

I grant that you don't know what McClatchy is, and that you may not have the habit of understanding the turf before posting a response, but McClatchy is one of the most well-sourced, insider-baseball, wonkish, respected, Washington-politics news sources available. The opposite of Alex Jones. They would not publish this item if they couldn't stand behind it. Just look around the website, aside from this article, and you'll see what I mean. In YOUR book, this source should be golden. And so should the information.
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/


--------------
I think it's time you disabused yourself of that pleasant little fairy tale about our fearless leaders being some sort of surrogate daddy or mommy, laying awake at night thinking about how to protect the kids. HA! In reality, they're thinking about who to sell them to so that they can get a few more shekels in their pockets.

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Tuesday, October 4, 2016 2:22 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

But wait, 1kiki! there is more! On November 21, 2013, the Senate used the so-called "nuclear option," voting 52-48, to eliminate the use of the filibuster on executive branch nominees and judicial nominees other than to the Supreme Court.

1kiki, did you notice that it only took 52 Senators in this real example to partially abolish the filibuster rules? It actually only takes 51 Republican Senators to pass the "nuclear option" abolishing the filibuster completely. There would be nothing the Democrats could do to stop President Trump and his 51% Republican majority in Congress from passing whatever they please.

If this is such a great option, why didn't the Democrats do this when they had the opportunity and were actually talking about it under Harry Reid? It could have saved the Obama administration years of being stonewalled by Congress.

Could it be that it's not the great tactic that you say it is? Or is it just that Democrats have become bought-and-paid-for wimps who have lost the story of what the Dem Party used to stand for, and all THEY stand for, now, is staying in office and drumming up money for their election campaigns?

--------------
I think it's time you disabused yourself of that pleasant little fairy tale about our fearless leaders being some sort of surrogate daddy or mommy, laying awake at night thinking about how to protect the kids. HA! In reality, they're thinking about who to sell them to so that they can get a few more shekels in their pockets.

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Tuesday, October 4, 2016 3:54 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


BTW that whole Supreme Court thing was with the agreement of the Dems, and it ONLY applies to SC nominees, and is specifically based on the text in the Constitution about SC nominees.





Let me just point out that the author left out vital relevant facts in the opinion piece. Doing that is known as cherry-picking. And whether you do that in the news, in discussion, in debate or in opinion, when you distort the facts, you've changed the nature of your communication into propaganda. But WE don't have any of THAT in the US, do we?!

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Tuesday, October 4, 2016 3:58 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


So you're NOW retracting your claim of 60 senators, second?

I have been saying - for months now - that IF we could count on the Democrats in the Senate, Trump in the WH would be no problem.

But, Trump's not going to win. And there aren't going to be 60 republicans in the Senate.

On top of that, OTHER presidents have swayed the entire nation to a new way of thinking. It's completely possible.

So. What's your excuse NOW for not discussing Hillary and her severe shortcomings that gave away so much support to Trump ?

Here's the question - again -

what can Hillary say to overcome TrumpISM in the US?





Let me just point out that the author left out vital relevant facts in the opinion piece. Doing that is known as cherry-picking. And whether you do that in the news, in discussion, in debate or in opinion, when you distort the facts, you've changed the nature of your communication into propaganda. But WE don't have any of THAT in the US, do we?!

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Tuesday, October 4, 2016 4:33 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
“I was 35 years old when Bill Clinton, Ark. Attorney General raped me and Hillary tried to silence me."


Quote:

This is one of the reasons you have no credibility and come off looking like a nut. There are thousands more posts in these threads by you that also reinforce you being nuts. I love it.-THUGR


I know that you and KPO and G are very "source driven"; you tend to disbelieve sources that you're not familiar with and believe sources that are comfortable and accustomed.

I grant that you don't know what McClatchy is, and that you may not have the habit of understanding the turf before posting a response



Your ignorance astounds me. I said nothing about your source in this instance. Yet you assume I am not familiar with it and further assume I am challenging it. In fact it is the charges I challenge. The woman first reported the incident twenty years after it supposedly occurred. Add to that the fact that she admittedly continued to work on and support his campaign.

Your malice against the Clintons goes far beyond reason and again brings front and center your lack of good and moral judgement.


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Tuesday, October 4, 2016 5:09 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Oh good! Let's drag Bill Clinton through the mud, again!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Clinton_sexual_misconduct_allegatio
ns

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/05/23/will-today-s-women-be
lieve-bill-clinton-s-rape-accusers.html


--------------
I think it's time you disabused yourself of that pleasant little fairy tale about our fearless leaders being some sort of surrogate daddy or mommy, laying awake at night thinking about how to protect the kids. HA! In reality, they're thinking about who to sell them to so that they can get a few more shekels in their pockets.

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Tuesday, October 4, 2016 5:46 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:

So you're NOW retracting your claim of 60 senators, second?

No. If there are 51 Republican Senators AND 51 Senators agree to use the "nuclear option" then Democrats won't be able to filibuster President Trump's huge tax cuts for the wealthy and savage cuts in aid to the poor.

The Republican Senators have NOT YET used the "nuclear option" because the President is a Democrat. The Democrats used the "nuclear option" in 2013 only because Obama was President AND there were 52 Democratic Senators.

When Trump is President, if 50 Senators do NOT agree to the "nuclear option" then Republicans need 60 Senators to overcome the Democrats' filibuster of President Trump's huge tax cuts for the wealthy and savage cuts in aid to the poor.
Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:

I have been saying - for months now - that IF we could count on the Democrats in the Senate, Trump in the WH would be no problem,

But, Trump's not going to win. And there aren't going to be 60 republicans in the Senate.

On top of that, OTHER presidents have swayed the entire nation to a new way of thinking. It's completely possible.

So. What's your excuse NOW for not discussing Hillary and her severe shortcomings that gave away so much support to Trump?

Here's the question - again -

what can Hillary say to overcome TrumpISM in the US?

I’ve got a story: my neighbor said he would never vote for Hillary The Murderer. “Who did she murder?” I asked. “Those guys at Benghazi!” replied the neighbor.

How does Hillary overcome that kind of crazy talk? How does she motivate my neighbor to not take up his rifle and kill her in the next 4 years? Not Hillary, not anyone who was President, can overcome this hatred. I checked the report on Benghazi. To my complete surprise, Hillary is not a murderer!
https://benghazi.house.gov/sites/republicans.benghazi.house.gov/files/
documents/Part%20V.pdf


I think there is nothing Hillary can do now or the next four years to change the minds of anyone who votes Republican or votes for a third or fourth party candidate because they heard that Hillary was a murderer. I have a vague recollection that 1kiki (I could be wrong) called Hillary a murderer, but not in connection to Benghazi.

There is a long article explaining that Trump’s weirdness and unpopularity isn’t the only force shaping this race. The article ends with this paragraph:
Quote:

But the fact remains that her basic problem in this race is almost painfully simple. Over the course of her winning primary campaign she became a deeply unpopular figure. {That means she’s a murderer or an accessory to murder or she is plotting a future murder} And it’s hard — indeed, unprecedented — for such an unpopular person {she’s a murderer} to win the presidency.
www.vox.com/2016/9/15/12919800/clinton-trump-polls-tighter

Another neighbor sent me this video. What can Hillary say to overcome nasty propaganda videos? Nothing. It is like asking what Lincoln could do to improve his image. The Confederates hated him before he was elected. They hated him during the war, as did almost a majority of Yankees. The Confederates hated him after he was dead and none of his speeches or skill running the government or Lincoln's graciousness after victory changed the minds of anyone while he was alive. Being assassinated was a really smart P.R. move by Lincoln to improve his image.



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Tuesday, October 4, 2016 6:11 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


I admit - when your entire history as Senator has been as a do-nothing, Iraq War cheering, 'free' trade agreement supporter and apologist; when your entire term as Secretary of Sate has been devoted to getting into bed with jihadists and Nazis to destabilize and break country after country after country - AND you put US security at risk using your unsecured private server for classified information at the same time; when you refuse to address US nuclear first-strike policy and antagonize and provoke the only other major nuclear power on the globe; when you refuse to release the content of the speeches you made to mega-corporations and for which you earned tens of millions of dollars in under 2 years - with two million from major banks alone; when you collude with the supposedly neutral DNC to shoehorn yourself into the candidacy - it's a tough row to hoe!

And maybe people are a bit misdirected about where the smell is coming from, but for sure they know something stinks.


So, what do YOU think Hillary has done wrong? What does she need to say mea culpa for? What does she need to promise not to do again? How can she show she's learned some lessons? What policies does she need to disavow or adopt to prove she's going to walk her talk as a candidate for the average person?




Let me just point out that the author left out vital relevant facts in the opinion piece. Doing that is known as cherry-picking. And whether you do that in the news, in discussion, in debate or in opinion, when you distort the facts, you've changed the nature of your communication into propaganda. But WE don't have any of THAT in the US, do we?!

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Tuesday, October 4, 2016 6:28 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Oh good! Let's drag Bill Clinton through the mud, again!




Sure


•Longest economic expansion in American history
The President's strategy of fiscal discipline, open foreign markets and investments in the American people helped create the conditions for a record 115 months of economic expansion. Our economy has grown at an average of 4 percent per year since 1993.


•More than 22 million new jobs
More than 22 million jobs were created in less than eight years -- the most ever under a single administration, and more than were created in the previous twelve years.


•Highest homeownership in American history
A strong economy and fiscal discipline kept interest rates low, making it possible for more families to buy homes. The homeownership rate increased from 64.2 percent in 1992 to 67. 7 percent, the highest rate ever.


•Lowest unemployment in 30 years
Unemployment dropped from more than 7 percent in 1993 to just 4.0 percent in November 2000. Unemployment for African Americans and Hispanics fell to the lowest rates on record, and the rate for women is the lowest in more than 40 years.


•Raised education standards, increased school choice, and doubled education and training investment
Since 1992, reading and math scores have increased for 4th, 8th, and 12th graders, math SAT scores are at a 30-year high, the number of charter schools has grown from 1 to more than 2,000, forty-nine states have put in place standards in core subjects and federal investment in education and training has doubled.


•Largest expansion of college opportunity since the GI Bill
President Clinton and Vice President Gore have nearly doubled financial aid for students by increasing Pell Grants to the largest award ever, expanding Federal Work-Study to allow 1 million students to work their way through college, and by creating new tax credits and scholarships such as Lifetime Learning tax credits and the HOPE scholarship. At the same time, taxpayers have saved $18 billion due to the decline in student loan defaults, increased collections and savings from the direct student loan program.


•Connected 95 percent of schools to the Internet
President Clinton and Vice President Gore's new commitment to education technology, including the E-Rate and a 3,000 percent increase in educational technology funding, increased the percentage of schools connected to the Internet from 35 percent in 1994 to 95 percent in 1999.


•Lowest crime rate in 26 years
Because of President Clinton's comprehensive anti-crime strategy of tough penalties, more police, and smart prevention, as well as common sense gun safety laws, the overall crime rate declined for 8 consecutive years, the longest continuous drop on record, and is at the lowest level since 1973.


•100,000 more police for our streets
As part of the 1994 Crime Bill, President Clinton enacted a new initiative to fund 100,000 community police officers. To date more than 11,000 law enforcement agencies have received COPS funding.


•Enacted most sweeping gun safety legislation in a generation
Since the President signed the Brady bill in 1993, more than 600,000 felons, fugitives, and other prohibited persons have been stopped from buying guns. Gun crime has declined 40 percent since 1992.


•Family and Medical Leave Act for 20 million Americans
To help parents succeed at work and at home, President Clinton signed the Family and Medical Leave Act in 1993. Over 20 million Americans have taken unpaid leave to care for a newborn child or sick family member.


•Smallest welfare rolls in 32 years
The President pledged to end welfare as we know it and signed landmark bipartisan welfare reform legislation in 1996. Since then, caseloads have been cut in half, to the lowest level since 1968, and millions of parents have joined the workforce. People on welfare today are five times more likely to be working than in 1992.


•Higher incomes at all levels
After falling by nearly $2,000 between 1988 and 1992, the median family's income rose by $6,338, after adjusting for inflation, since 1993. African American family income increased even more, rising by nearly $7,000 since 1993. After years of stagnant income growth among average and lower income families, all income brackets experienced double-digit growth since 1993. The bottom 20 percent saw the largest income growth at 16.3 percent.


•Lowest poverty rate in 20 years
Since Congress passed President Clinton's Economic Plan in 1993, the poverty rate declined from 15.1 percent to 11.8 percent last year — the largest six-year drop in poverty in nearly 30 years. There are now 7 million fewer people in poverty than in 1993. The child poverty rate declined more than 25 percent, the poverty rates for single mothers, African Americans and the elderly have dropped to their lowest levels on record, and Hispanic poverty dropped to its lowest level since 1979.


•Lowest teen birth rate in 60 years
In his 1995 State of the Union Address, President Clinton challenged Americans to join together in a national campaign against teen pregnancy. The birth rate for teens aged 15-19 declined every year of the Clinton Presidency, from 60.7 per 1,000 teens in 1992 to a record low of 49.6 in 1999.


•Lowest infant mortality rate in American history
The Clinton Administration expanded efforts to provide mothers and newborn children with health care. Today, a record high 82 percent of all mothers receive prenatal care. The infant mortality rate has dropped from 8.5 deaths per 1,000 in 1992 to 7.2 deaths per 1,000 in 1998, the lowest rate ever recorded.


•Deactivated more than 1,700 nuclear warheads from the former Soviet Union
Efforts of the Clinton-Gore Administration led to the dismantling of more than 1,700 nuclear warheads, 300 launchers and 425 land and submarine based missiles from the former Soviet Union.


•Protected millions of acres of American land
President Clinton has protected more land in the lower 48 states than any other president. He has protected 5 new national parks, designated 11 new national monuments and expanded two others and proposed protections for 60 million acres of roadless areas in America's national forests.


•Paid off $360 billion of the national debt
Between 1998-2000, the national debt was reduced by $363 billion — the largest three-year debt pay-down in American history. We are now on track to pay off the entire debt by 2009.


•Converted the largest budget deficit in American history to the largest surplus
Thanks in large part to the 1993 Deficit Reduction Act, the 1997 Balanced Budget Act, and President Clinton's call to save the surplus for debt reduction, Social Security, and Medicare solvency, America has put its fiscal house in order. The deficit was $290 billion in 1993 and expected to grow to $455 billion by this year. Instead, we have a projected surplus of $237 billion.


•Lowest government spending in three decades
Under President Clinton federal government spending as a share of the economy has decreased from 22.2 percent in 1992 to a projected 18.5 percent in 2000, the lowest since 1966.


•Lowest federal income tax burden in 35 years
President Clinton enacted targeted tax cuts such as the Earned Income Tax Credit expansion, $500 child tax credit, and the HOPE Scholarship and Lifetime Learning Tax Credits. Federal income taxes as a percentage of income for the typical American family have dropped to their lowest level in 35 years.


•More families own stock than ever before
The number of families owning stock in the United States increased by 40 percent since 1992.


•Most diverse cabinet in American history
The President has appointed more African Americans, women and Hispanics to the Cabinet than any other President in history. He appointed the first female Attorney General, the first female Secretary of State and the first Asian American cabinet secretary



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Tuesday, October 4, 2016 6:30 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
I admit - when your entire history as Senator has been as a do-nothing, Iraq War cheering, 'free' trade agreement supporter and apologist; when your entire term as Secretary of Sate has been devoted to getting into bed with jihadists and Nazis to destabilize and break country after country after country - AND you put US security at risk using your unsecured private server for classified information at the same time; when you refuse to address US nuclear first-strike policy and antagonize and provoke the only other major nuclear power on the globe; when you refuse to release the content of the speeches you made to mega-corporations and for which you earned tens of millions of dollars in under 2 years - with two million from major banks alone; when you collude with the supposedly neutral DNC to shoehorn yourself into the candidacy - it's a tough row to hoe!

And maybe people are a bit misdirected about where the smell is coming from, but for sure they know something stinks.


So, what do YOU think Hillary has done wrong? What does she need to say mea culpa for? What does she need to promise not to do again? How can she show she's learned some lessons? What policies does she need to disavow or adopt to prove she's going to walk her talk as a candidate for the average person?

I hope Hillary's Tim Kaine is a better V.P. choice than Lincoln's Andrew Johnson. That being said, the smart move by Hillary is to be murdered shortly after the inauguration. That's Hillary's only possible way to please 1kiki. And think of all the sympathy Bill will get for outliving Hillary.

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Tuesday, October 4, 2016 7:49 PM

ELVISCHRIST


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
Quote:

Originally posted by ElvisChrist:
It's funny to listen to the Republicans who are suckered onto Drumpf's asshole like remoras try to explain that his gaming of the system is "genius" (both Christie and Giuliani used that word), but that any so-called "welfare queen" would be despicable for gaming the system in a similar fashion.

There is literally no amount of his shit they won't swallow, and the GOP and the worthless teabaggers are all queueing up to get their shitbuckets filled.



He lost a billion dollars in one year, some genius. It's the kind of spin we hear from 1kiki and SIG all day every day here. Bait and switch.

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He lost a fucking billion dollars in one year RUNNING CASINOS! He literally went bankrupt in the only business where they coined the phrase "The house always wins!"

And he pays less in federal income taxes than your average undocumented immigrant.

Just sit back and let that sink in.

And that's your fucking "genius."

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Tuesday, October 4, 2016 7:50 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Tax guru David Cay Johnston says he thinks he knows what Donald Trump's $916 million operating loss in 1995 was all about. The story starts when Trump's casino empire crashed in the early 90s, producing multiple business bankruptcies. And because Trump had personally guaranteed about a billion dollars in loans, it nearly produced a personal bankruptcy too. Here's Johnston's theory of what happened next:

1) Trump threatened to tie his bankers in legal knots for years unless they forgave the loans that had been largely responsible for his operating losses in the first place. Eventually, he badgered them into agreeing.

2) But a forgiven loan is income, so this produced a billion dollars in taxable income for Trump that would have offset his $916 million in operating losses. What to do?

3) In 1995, Congress passed a law that allowed real estate professionals to trade the taxes on forgiven debt for future real-estate tax deductions.

4) This gave someone at Trump HQ a bright idea: why not use this trade to dump all the tax obligations onto Trump's casino properties? Normally would just be trading one tax obligation for another, so to get around that they advised Trump to take all his casino holdings and put them into a shiny new public company.

5) Here's the genius part. By trading away the taxes on his forgiven debt, Trump kept his $916 million operating loss. It was the new public company that got saddled with property that owed a lot more in taxes than it normally would.

6) Thousands of people invested in the company, and lost everything when Trump drove it into the ground. But as CEO, Trump paid himself $82 million along the way.

Isn't that great? Trump got $916 million in tax free income over the next decade. He shoveled a bunch of problem properties into a public company. He paid himself $82 million to run the company. And everyone who bought the stock took a bath.

In the end, there was one big winner: Trump. And three big losers: Trump's bankers, the American taxpayers, and all the investors in Trump's crappy public company.
www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/10/03/art-of-the-steal-this-is-how
-trump-lost-916m-and-avoided-tax.html

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Tuesday, October 4, 2016 8:58 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Good lord, THUGR, you've got your tongue stuck pretty far up Clinton's ass!

Bill Clinton-

Repealed Glass Steagall, which is what made a 2008 banking collapse possible.

Signed the Commodities Futures Trading Act, which made all of those funny Credit Default Swaps possible, which made the financial crisis possible.

Gutted state regulation of banks.

Quote:

CJR concludes, “The bottom line is: Bill Clinton was responsible for more damaging financial deregulation—and thus, for the [2008] financial crisis—than any other president.”


Signed the Digital Millenium Copyright Act, which eliminated fair use of digital content.

Signed the Defense of Marriage Act (= one man, one woman)

Signed NAFTA - we heard all about that.

Eliminated "Welfare as we know it", which threw hundreds of thousands of families into poverty.

Destroyed Yugoslavia.

Created minimum mandatory sentencing and expanded the War on Drugs. Thanks Bill.

http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/15-ways-bill-clintons-white-hous
e-failed-america-and-world


Bill Clinton did ONE GOOD THING: he raised the minimum wage. The rest was just happy happenstance during his admin, since the Fed kept rates low and there was a Tech Boom.



--------------
I think it's time you disabused yourself of that pleasant little fairy tale about our fearless leaders being some sort of surrogate daddy or mommy, laying awake at night thinking about how to protect the kids. HA! In reality, they're thinking about who to sell them to so that they can get a few more shekels in their pockets.

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Tuesday, October 4, 2016 9:53 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Bill Clinton-

Repealed Glass Steagall, which is what made a 2008 banking collapse possible.

Signed the Commodities Futures Trading Act, which made all of those funny Credit Default Swaps possible, which made the financial crisis possible.

Gutted state regulation of banks.

Eliminated "Welfare as we know it", which threw hundreds of thousands of families into poverty.

Destroyed Yugoslavia.

Created minimum mandatory sentencing and expanded the War on Drugs. Thanks Bill.

I know how to please 1kiki, Signym and myself in five steps:

1) Hillary is elected, which pleases me.

2) President Hillary is assassinated by Trump’s minions, which pleases 1kiki. I don't care that Hillary has paid the ultimate price for her sins. Trump will become a TV show host.

3) The grieving widower Bill throws himself (or is thrown) on Hillary’s funeral pyre, which pleases Signym. I saw Daenerys Targaryen do it in Game of Thrones and always wanted to see suttee on the National Mall in Washington DC.

4) Veep Tim Kaine becomes President, which pleases me.

5) 1kiki and Signym begin a campaign against President Tim Kaine. I don’t comment on Kaine’s characteristics because I don’t care.

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Tuesday, October 4, 2016 10:02 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



Originally posted by second:
I hope Hillary's Tim Kaine is a better V.P. choice than Lincoln's Andrew Johnson. That being said, the smart move by Hillary is to be murdered shortly after the inauguration. That's Hillary's only possible way to please 1kiki. And think of all the sympathy Bill will get for outliving Hillary.


I just had to quote this because - in a move that did not surprise me in the least - you strawmanned, yet again.

May I remind you second that a strawman argument is in the pantheon of DISHONEST ARGUMENTS, and it's your go-to response, aside from trolling and outright lies?

So, let me strawman and snark YOU. Because YOU apparently can't find a single thing that Hillary's done that you disapprove, or would like to see changed, you're just like the idiot republicans who support Trump.

You've turned your brain off and handed over your thinking. As is clear for everyone to see.


BTW, your argument style very much reminds me of rappy.





Let me just point out that the author left out vital relevant facts in the opinion piece. Doing that is known as cherry-picking. And whether you do that in the news, in discussion, in debate or in opinion, when you distort the facts, you've changed the nature of your communication into propaganda. But WE don't have any of THAT in the US, do we?!

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Tuesday, October 4, 2016 11:15 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


sgg

Here's the scorecard from the first four pages of this thread -

My first post - no insult
kiki Monday, May 23, 2016 3:58 PM
I just wanted to point out an error
My second post - no insult
kiki Monday, May 23, 2016 4:50 PM
second So Obama's actions to help working people? They'd aspire to being merely trivial.

I get trolled here
Another sign of 1kiki and SIG trying to control the content of a thread.

no insults from me here either
kiki Monday, May 23, 2016 7:42 PM
"Congress follows the 1% because ...

or here
kiki Thursday, May 26, 2016 1:30 AM
here
kiki Sunday, May 29, 2016 1:36 AM

but I DO get trolled HERE, maybe you recognize the name of the poster
SHINYGOODGUY Sunday, May 29, 2016 2:01 AM
You've got to be the stupidest motherfucker on the face of the planet, and below as well.


to which I reply Sunday, May 29, 2016 2:17 AM
Hunh? You're incoherent.

no insults from me here
Sunday, May 29, 2016 2:57 AM
or here
Sunday, May 29, 2016 3:23 AM
here
Monday, May 30, 2016 2:18 AM

but you troll me again
Wednesday, June 1, 2016 6:16 AM
Perhaps you wish to enlighten me, Oh Factual One. Both you and Sig know so much, and me, I'm but a mere mortal, a peon, with a pea of a brain failing to understand the intricacies of the world around me.
I bow down at the enormity of your wisdom and kneel before you ever at the ready to
attempt to learn at your feet. I bow and scrape..............teach me!


and the VERY NEXT POST troll me and signy
Wednesday, June 1, 2016 6:18 AM
Those Oxford dudes are really good. Of course, none compare to the brilliance of 2 of our own scholars - kiki & Sig.


then you revive an earlier post of mine where I ask about Hillary's factual history regarding Iraq, Libya, Syria and Ukraine with MORE trolling from you, sgg where you imply that YOU ONLY TROLL BECAUSE YOU'VE BEEN TREATED SO VERY BADLY
Friday, June 3, 2016 3:54 AM Anyway, I'm not here for your entertainment. I post what I please, you just have to deal with that fact. Whenever I'm of the mind, I post
articles that catch my eye and comment on them (or at least I used to), I got slammed a number of times for posting my take on things, then I answer in kind and I get slammed for it.


I didn't say anything negative here
Saturday, June 4, 2016 1:49 PM
or here
Sunday, June 12, 2016 4:35 PM

But I DID get strawmanned here, which is second's stock in trade - dishonesty
Sunday, June 12, 2016 6:00 PM You should inform Warren of her horrible mistake when the morally superior Trump ought to be getting Warren's endorsement

and I REPLIED with this:
Sunday, June 12, 2016 8:09 PM since YOU are too dumb to understand your own hypocrisy, let me spell it out


and here's a little interlude between signy and thuggr
thuggr
and viciously attacking Hillary Clinton about global a organization that attempts to help impoverished countries
signy
First of all, what organization is that? Because without that information, you look like the corner soapbox orator, shouting into the wind and pointing at the sky.
thuggr
You’re such an ASS.


let's see
second posts made-up stuff about Trump
Monday, June 13, 2016 6:23 PM
I reply Monday, June 13, 2016 6:43 PM That would be far more apropos if he actually said any of that. Did he?
And second replies with - guess what! MORE dishonesty - except this is in the form of an outright lie
Monday, June 13, 2016 6:50 PM Yes, Trump did.
and when I challenge second, with, yanno, FACTS and LINKS
Monday, June 13, 2016 8:19 PM
second replies with this
Monday, June 13, 2016 10:07 PM 1kiki loves Trump, hates Hillary. Because - that's what second does. Which is lie. A LOT.


And so on.

I can tell sgg - you're completely fine with snark, with trolling, with lies and insults. And YOUR completely dishonest criticisms are just more of the same shitty trolling from the shitty Hillary people who - really do! - represent their candidate VERY well - even emulate her. Yes, even to the bone deep dishonesty and hypocrisy and hate-filled little mind she has.





Let me just point out that the author left out vital relevant facts in the opinion piece. Doing that is known as cherry-picking. And whether you do that in the news, in discussion, in debate or in opinion, when you distort the facts, you've changed the nature of your communication into propaganda. But WE don't have any of THAT in the US, do we?!

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Wednesday, October 5, 2016 3:49 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Quote:

I can tell sgg - you're completely fine with snark, with trolling, with lies and insults. And YOUR completely dishonest criticisms are just more of the same shitty trolling from the shitty Hillary people who - really do! - represent their candidate VERY well - even emulate her. Yes, even to the bone deep dishonesty and hypocrisy and hate-filled little mind she has.


Ya know, I was going to say that I was in rare form in those few short weeks. I was going to say that sometimes people just get into a shitty mood
in response to some rather shitty comments, posts and responses.....but I've moved on in that short time. I'm no longer in that place, nor am I that same person. I took responsibility for my words and offered up the olive branch and was rebuffed. I have to say, I'm good with it. Say what you will, because I am not who you say I am.

Peace be with you.


SGG



Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
sgg

Here's the scorecard from the first four pages of this thread -

My first post - no insult
kiki Monday, May 23, 2016 3:58 PM
I just wanted to point out an error
My second post - no insult
kiki Monday, May 23, 2016 4:50 PM
second So Obama's actions to help working people? They'd aspire to being merely trivial.

I get trolled here
Another sign of 1kiki and SIG trying to control the content of a thread.

no insults from me here either
kiki Monday, May 23, 2016 7:42 PM
"Congress follows the 1% because ...

or here
kiki Thursday, May 26, 2016 1:30 AM
here
kiki Sunday, May 29, 2016 1:36 AM

but I DO get trolled HERE, maybe you recognize the name of the poster
SHINYGOODGUY Sunday, May 29, 2016 2:01 AM
You've got to be the stupidest motherfucker on the face of the planet, and below as well.


to which I reply Sunday, May 29, 2016 2:17 AM
Hunh? You're incoherent.

no insults from me here
Sunday, May 29, 2016 2:57 AM
or here
Sunday, May 29, 2016 3:23 AM
here
Monday, May 30, 2016 2:18 AM

but you troll me again
Wednesday, June 1, 2016 6:16 AM
Perhaps you wish to enlighten me, Oh Factual One. Both you and Sig know so much, and me, I'm but a mere mortal, a peon, with a pea of a brain failing to understand the intricacies of the world around me.
I bow down at the enormity of your wisdom and kneel before you ever at the ready to
attempt to learn at your feet. I bow and scrape..............teach me!


and the VERY NEXT POST troll me and signy
Wednesday, June 1, 2016 6:18 AM
Those Oxford dudes are really good. Of course, none compare to the brilliance of 2 of our own scholars - kiki & Sig.


then you revive an earlier post of mine where I ask about Hillary's factual history regarding Iraq, Libya, Syria and Ukraine with MORE trolling from you, sgg where you imply that YOU ONLY TROLL BECAUSE YOU'VE BEEN TREATED SO VERY BADLY
Friday, June 3, 2016 3:54 AM Anyway, I'm not here for your entertainment. I post what I please, you just have to deal with that fact. Whenever I'm of the mind, I post
articles that catch my eye and comment on them (or at least I used to), I got slammed a number of times for posting my take on things, then I answer in kind and I get slammed for it.


I didn't say anything negative here
Saturday, June 4, 2016 1:49 PM
or here
Sunday, June 12, 2016 4:35 PM

But I DID get strawmanned here, which is second's stock in trade - dishonesty
Sunday, June 12, 2016 6:00 PM You should inform Warren of her horrible mistake when the morally superior Trump ought to be getting Warren's endorsement

and I REPLIED with this:
Sunday, June 12, 2016 8:09 PM since YOU are too dumb to understand your own hypocrisy, let me spell it out


and here's a little interlude between signy and thuggr
thuggr
and viciously attacking Hillary Clinton about global a organization that attempts to help impoverished countries
signy
First of all, what organization is that? Because without that information, you look like the corner soapbox orator, shouting into the wind and pointing at the sky.
thuggr
You’re such an ASS.


let's see
second posts made-up stuff about Trump
Monday, June 13, 2016 6:23 PM
I reply Monday, June 13, 2016 6:43 PM That would be far more apropos if he actually said any of that. Did he?
And second replies with - guess what! MORE dishonesty - except this is in the form of an outright lie
Monday, June 13, 2016 6:50 PM Yes, Trump did.
and when I challenge second, with, yanno, FACTS and LINKS
Monday, June 13, 2016 8:19 PM
second replies with this
Monday, June 13, 2016 10:07 PM 1kiki loves Trump, hates Hillary. Because - that's what second does. Which is lie. A LOT.


And so on.

I can tell sgg - you're completely fine with snark, with trolling, with lies and insults. And YOUR completely dishonest criticisms are just more of the same shitty trolling from the shitty Hillary people who - really do! - represent their candidate VERY well - even emulate her. Yes, even to the bone deep dishonesty and hypocrisy and hate-filled little mind she has.





Let me just point out that the author left out vital relevant facts in the opinion piece. Doing that is known as cherry-picking. And whether you do that in the news, in discussion, in debate or in opinion, when you distort the facts, you've changed the nature of your communication into propaganda. But WE don't have any of THAT in the US, do we?!

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Wednesday, October 5, 2016 8:02 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
. . . YOUR completely dishonest criticisms are just more of the same shitty trolling from the shitty Hillary people who - really do! - represent their candidate VERY well - even emulate her. Yes, even to the bone deep dishonesty and hypocrisy and hate-filled little mind she has.

Are you going to be angry for years if Hillary is elected President without her apologizing for everything she has done to you?

I suppose that 1kiki thinks 1kiki follows the “ethic of responsibility”. I know what I think: 1kiki follows the “ethic of conviction”.

I saw an article explaining that: “A tale of two ethics” at
www.economist.com/news/europe/21707959-why-many-germans-think-impracti
cal-idealism-immoral-tale-two-ethics


Why many Germans think impractical idealism is immoral
Oct 1st 2016

The phrases “ethic of conviction” and “ethic of responsibility” mean little to most English-speakers. In Germany the equivalent terms—Gesinnungsethik and Verantwortungsethik—are household words. Pundits drop them casually during television talk shows. Hosts use them as conversation-starters at dinner parties. The concepts draw on the opposition between idealism and pragmatism that runs through politics everywhere. But they also capture a specific moral tension that is “very German”, says Manfred Güllner, a sociologist and pollster. Anyone interested in understanding German politics, on anything from the euro to refugees, would do well to get a handle on them.

The terms come from the sociologist Max Weber, who used them in a speech he gave in January 1919 to a group of leftist students at a Munich bookstore. Germany had just lost the first world war. The Kaiser had abdicated, the country was in the throes of revolution and Munich was about to become the capital of a short-lived “Bavarian Soviet Republic”. Armed with only eight index cards, Weber gave a talk that would become a classic of political science. (“Politics as a Vocation” was published in English only after the second world war. http://anthropos-lab.net/wp/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Weber-Politics-
as-a-Vocation.pdf
) The lecture ranged broadly through history, but its main purpose was to curb the Utopian romanticism then gripping the ideologues fighting over the direction of the new Germany, including those sitting in front of him.

Weber described an “abysmal opposition” between two types of ethics. Those following their convictions wish to preserve their own moral purity, no matter what consequences their policies may have in the real world. “If an action of good intent leads to bad results, then, in the actor’s eyes, not he but the world, or the stupidity of other men, or God’s will who made them thus, is responsible for the evil.” By contrast, someone guided by responsibility “takes account of precisely the average deficiencies of people…(H)e does not even have the right to presuppose their goodness and perfection.” This sort of politician will answer for all the consequences of his actions, even unintended ones. Weber left no doubt about his sympathies. Ethicists of conviction, he said, were “in nine out of ten cases windbags”.

The prevailing view today, like Weber’s in 1919, is that “Germany has a surfeit of Gesinnungsethik,” says Wolfgang Nowak, who served as an adviser to Gerhard Schröder when he was chancellor. The postwar yearning of Germans to atone for their nation’s Nazi past through extravagant moral posing exacerbates the tendency. In general, the ethic of conviction is most prevalent among leftists and Protestants, and slightly less so among conservatives and Catholics, says Mr Güllner.

Thus the Social Democrats, who view themselves as crusaders for social justice, often give the impression that they are not only “unable but unwilling” to govern, lest they bear actual responsibility, Mr Güllner thinks. That may explain why there has been a Social Democratic chancellor for only 20 years since 1949, compared with 47 years under the Christian Democrats. Many of Germany’s most strident pacifists, meanwhile, are Lutherans. Margot Käßmann, the church’s former leader, dreams of Germany having no army at all. She disavows force even to prevent or stop a genocide.

But an ethic of conviction also runs through the centre-right, which since the 1950s has approached the European project as an end in itself, a way for Germany to become post-national and dissolve its guilt along with its sovereignty. In the process, Germans deliberately overlooked the fact that most other Europeans never shared this goal. Once the euro crisis erupted, many conservatives opposed bail-outs out of an ethic of conviction, argues Thilo Sarrazin, a controversial pundit. They wanted to decry rule-breaking by crisis countries as inherently bad—even at the cost of letting the currency zone unravel.

The ethic of responsibility holds that such stances are not merely impractical but wrong, and that what will not work cannot be moral. Those governing Germany have mostly been of this camp. In the 1980s millions of Germans marched against the modernisation of NATO’s nuclear arsenal, but Chancellor Helmut Schmidt let the missiles deploy, accepting the grim logic of deterrence. (His reward from his fellow Social Democrats was largely disdain.) . . .

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Wednesday, October 5, 2016 8:49 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


The GOP attacks the Constitution.

On Monday, the Republican Party revealed that its new smear campaign against Democratic vice presidential candidate Tim Kaine will double as something else: an all-out assault on the United States Constitution.

The ad constitutes a straightforward, unapologetic attack on the Sixth Amendment. With it, the Republican Party can never again claim in good faith to be the party of defending the Constitution.

The Sixth Amendment Assistance of Counsel Clause: “In all criminal prosecutions the accused shall enjoy the right … to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defense.” It is a principle of American jurisprudence that it predates the Constitution. John Adams famously defended the British soldiers accused of committing the Boston Massacre, arguing that even the most reviled defendants deserved a strong defense.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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