Trump donated money to NAMBLA? Is this why he won't reveal his taxes? by reaverfan

Allegations of Trump’s Pedophilia go as far back as 1994
For many people Trump’s involvement with underage sexual partners was first brought to their attention in June of this year when a lawsuit filed by a Jane Doe accused the Republican Presidential Nominee of raping her in 1994, when she was only 13. However, in 2011 an article was published outlining the gift of $5000 given to Nevada Senator Harry Reid by the candidate, mere days after Trump’s arrest on suspicion of having sex with an unidentified twelve year old boy in the owner’s suite of Trump’s Las Vegas hotel and casino. Since the publication of this article there have been rumors online about Trump’s relationship with NAMBLA.

Trump’s longtime friend and ally Roger Ailes has recently been forced to step down as the head of Fox News on multiple charges of sexual harassment and sexual misconduct. It does not seem to be a coincidence that these rumors have gained footing in the days following Ailes’ departure. Some argue that without the head of a major network to suppress these rumors more of Trump’s victims may come forward, and confirmation of these rumors may be forthcoming.

Trump’s alleged financial support of NAMBLA ranges up to millions over the course of decades.
In July, rumors have been circulating in various political forums, alleging thatTrump has donated varying amounts from hundreds to millions of dollars over the course of years up to decades. Given the temper of the candidate and the violence of his supporters, all parties involved are very careful to state that these are still just rumors at the time of this writing. However, the number of questions and allegations has increased so rapidly in the past several days that a public statement being released that “people are questioning Donald Trump’s ties to NAMBLA. A lot of people are saying that he has donated money to NAMBLA, and that the reason he has not released his tax returns is that they will show tax deductible contributions to it”. The leaders also asked that reporters and curious minds stop contacting them until a determination on the validity of the allegations can be made.

In an uncharacteristic move, Trump’s campaign has refused to either confirm or deny his donations supporting NAMBLA at the time of this writing. Given the candidates history of issuing public statements over much less this has only fueled the rumors. On a popular site where “Trump-eters” discuss policy and the campaign, there are vehement defenses of the candidate, but no denial of the allegations, and questioners frequently find their posts deleted or replied to with personal attacks. This has led more conspiracy minded persons to the theory that Trump staffer’s are actively trying to suppress this rumor. As of the time of this writing, no statement has been issued confirming or denying these allegations.
https://medium.com/@DOdeadswitch/do...american-man-boy-love-cf4ba136688f#.pvsa9i2d5

Where there's smoke...

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Friday, September 2, 2016 5:57 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by reaverfan:

If this is true, is it because Trump himself is a pedophile?

It is false. The claim that Trump is a member of the North American Man/Boy Love Association is the result of a bot programmed by Reddit pranksters.
www.snopes.com/trump-did-not-donate-to-nambla/

On the other hand, there is lesson from LBJ of Texas, my home state, in how to smash an opponent.

Legend has it that LBJ, in one of his early congressional campaigns, told one of his aides to spread the story that Johnson's opponent fucked pigs. The aide responded "Christ, Lyndon, we can't call the guy a pigfucker. It isn't true." To which LBJ supposedly replied "Of course it ain't true, but I want to make the son-of-a-bitch deny it."

Today's Democrats could learn a lesson from this. The Republicans did.
http://washingtonmonthly.com/2006/09/25/did-he-or-didnt-he/

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Friday, September 2, 2016 6:27 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Quote:
Originally posted by reaverfan:

If this is true, is it because Trump himself is a pedophile?
It is false. The claim that Trump is a member of the North American Man/Boy Love Association is the result of a bot programmed by Reddit pranksters.
www.snopes.com/trump-did-not-donate-to-nambla/

On the other hand, there is lesson from LBJ of Texas, my home state, in how to smash an opponent.

Legend has it that LBJ, in one of his early congressional campaigns, told one of his aides to spread the story that Johnson's opponent fucked pigs. The aide responded "Christ, Lyndon, we can't call the guy a pigfucker. It isn't true." To which LBJ supposedly replied "Of course it ain't true, but I want to make the son-of-a-bitch deny it."

Today's Democrats could learn a lesson from this. The Republicans did.
http://washingtonmonthly.com/2006/09/25/did-he-or-didnt-he/

Yeah, but that's the wrong Snopes. That's a Russian mirror site.

Just kidding. I knew it was fake. The court case over him raping a 13 year old isn't, though.

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Friday, September 2, 2016 6:41 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by reaverfan:

Just kidding. I knew it was fake.

We know thousands of verified facts about Trump. Every last one of them should've destroyed his reputation. But Americans have no taste and very little memory for anything Trump said or did more than a month ago. And so Trump is steadily climbing in the polls.

http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/?ex_cid=rrp
romo

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Friday, September 2, 2016 6:59 PM

WHOZIT

You do now that New York mag is one the most unreliable rags on the planet right? Maybe not. This is just their lame attempt to get Don to release his tax returns. You believe this scum over FOX News don't ya?

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Friday, September 2, 2016 7:42 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by whozit:
You do now that New York mag is one the most unreliable rags on the planet right? Maybe not. This is just their lame attempt to get Don to release his tax returns. You believe this scum over FOX News don't ya?

I think that Trump's tax returns have tax evasions in exactly the same way Nixon's return showed tax evasion. When Nixon made his return public, somebody in the public put two and two together and then Dick owed $450,000 in additional taxes. Trump is in a tax evasion league far bigger than Dick was in.
http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2007/03/remembering_ric.html

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Friday, September 2, 2016 11:55 PM

Other news outlets have reported "dirty" dealings by Trump & Co. like use of illegal immigrants for his construction company (then he doesn't pay them)
and illegal immigrants in his modeling company. He has females as young as 15 years old "model" within the Fashion industry, which uses these girls who overstay their visas and work permits.

Trump's company tells the girls to say they're visiting relatives, even though they have no one of their family here in the States. He's also been
tied to mob connections in New York. Plus the fact that the public, actually
economists, could figure out his real net worth. He's not as rich as he claims. Warren Buffet, a real billionaire, has said as much.

His immigration policy is just Make America White Again. Pure & Simple. Fact is that it was never that. The first settlers were a bunch of thieves, cutthroats and murderers. You know, the cream of the crop from Europe. England, France, Spain. Stole the country from the "Natives" that were here
long before the "longboats" came. That's the Vikings.

Yes, the first people were the Native Americans. So people of color were
here first. Funny how that works out, isn't it!?

Now. I'm ready for your insults. Go ahead, make my millennium!

Bwahahahah!

SGG

Quote:
Originally posted by whozit:
You do now that New York mag is one the most unreliable rags on the planet right? Maybe not. This is just their lame attempt to get Don to release his tax returns. You believe this scum over FOX News don't ya?

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Saturday, September 3, 2016 7:48 AM

The whole point of this story is to parody Trump.

"Many people, smart people, the best people" + "are saying."

Trump's every speech is a bunch of unsupported allegations.

"It's bad, folks. It's bad. I'm gonna fix it. You're gonna love it."

Look at what the bot said:

"Many people are saying that Trump’s tax returns reveal donations to the North American Man/Boy Love Association, an advocacy group for pedophiles. The theory has been floated by several highly reputable Twitter accounts, and Google Trends registered a spike in searches for “Trump and NAMBLA” in recent days.

According to the Daily Beast, the discussion was kicked off by a post on esteemed social-media site Reddit, which has brought many things to light, not all of them pleasant.

But why doesn’t Trump want to release his [tax returns]? Could it be because he donated a sizable amount of money to NAMBLA and he wants to cover it up? I’m not saying Trump donated money to NAMBLA, but people are saying that. It’s something I’ve heard, but I don’t believe Donald Trump donated several million dollars to NAMBLA over the last several years. Still, if he did that would be a great reason to not release his tax returns. But look, I’m not here to say whether or not Donald Trump donated millions to NAMBLA, I’m just here to let you know that every candidate has released his tax returns over the last 40 years, so there has to be a reason he doesn’t, and several very smart people are saying he contributed millions of dollars to NAMBLA.

“Maybe that’s right, maybe that’s wrong, but I don’t know why he doesn’t release his records,” Trump said in 2011, when demanding that President Obama dispel the rumor that he was born in Kenya by releasing his birth certificate. The same can be said, just as fairly, about Trump’s alleged ties to NAMBLA in 2016.

Some may think it irresponsible to spread inflammatory accusations that have no evidentiary basis other than the fact that other people are spreading them. But Donald Trump has always believed that there’s no harm in asking questions."

Also:

"It’s worth noting that there’s no substantive evidence that Trump has ever donated money to NAMBLA. Given the mogul’s broader aversion to giving money to any charity or organization, the chances that he gave to this particular advocacy group are miniscule. But then, there’s no substantive evidence that Obama is sympathetic to ISIS or that Hillary Clinton’s emails doomed an Iranian scientist. But that hasn’t stopped both Trump and his running mate from suggesting the latter.

Thus, many people are saying that Trump respects the trolls who are spreading the NAMBLA rumor, and that he would like it to be shared as widely as possible."

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/08/many-people-are-saying-do
nald-trump-donated-to-nambla.html

I used this story to make conservatives flip their lids. When they post Snopes, I deny the validity if Snopes. When they ask for proof, I say "prove he didn't."

Just turning Trump's methods back on him.

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Saturday, September 3, 2016 8:23 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

For a little while Tuesday afternoon, it seemed as if the Republican nominee for president of the United States had risen to the occasion. Standing next to the Mexican president, he seemed almost thoughtful, reasonable, courteous and restrained. No doubt, the new, more presidential Trump made Clinton supporters a tad bit anxious.

They needn’t have worried.

A few hours after his surprise meeting with Mexican President Enrique Peña Nieto, during which Trump was as polite and conciliatory as a frat boy confronted by a Matamoros cop, Trump in Phoenix was back with the bluster. He left little doubt that this was the real Trump, if there is such a thing. What appeared to be a “softening” during the last couple of weeks turned out to be a reflection of the dual and contradictory advice he’s been getting from his new campaign team.

Trump in all his red-faced bluster would be laughable if not for the fact that millions of Americans are looking for a scapegoat. They believe he’s just the man to drive out the brown-skinned, Spanish-speaking among us and to build a wall — an “impenetrable, physical, tall, powerful, beautiful southern border wall” —to keep them out. On immigration, that’s the essence of Trump’s appeal.

Mexico, Trump assures us, will pay for that multi-billion-dollar wall. “They just don’t know it yet,” he proclaimed in Phoenix, shortly after he said he and Peña Nieto did not discuss funding for the wall. (The Mexican president said they did, insisting that he told Trump Mexico would not be paying for any wall.)

To hear Trump tell it, undocumented immigrants in this country are, with few exceptions, innately criminal. That brown-skinned fellow putting up dry wall on the new apartment complex across the street, that fellow pulling weeds behind the walls of a gated community, the waitress bringing migas and coffee to our table — they have nothing on their minds but rape, pillage and murder. Don’t you know? That’s why they’re in this country.

We’ve come to understand that Trump’s hateful lies and exaggerations are part of a pattern. We know that for the Republican nominee, it’s the truth that’s alien. A few examples from Wednesday night:

• Illegal immigration does not cost our country more than $113 billion a year.

• Hillary Clinton does not plan to bring in 620,000 new Syrian refugees a year; those who do come here have been subject to a comprehensive two-year screening.

• Despite Trump’s claim that “countless Americans” are “victims of violence” by undocumented immigrants who are “dangerous, dangerous, dangerous criminals,” the vast, vast, vast majority of undocumented immigrants do not fit Trump’s description of aggravated felons, whose crimes include murder.

• NAFTA, despite weaknesses, has not been a “disaster,” as Trump has labeled it. The Mexican president noted on Tuesday that the U.S. Chamber of Commerce believes that more than 6 million American jobs rely on trade with Mexico.

All it took to bring down an avalanche of lies was a raucous, adoring crowd in Arizona egging Trump on and a speech prepared with input from the hardliner side of the campaign team.
www.houstonchronicle.com/opinion/editorials/article/The-real-Trump-919
8897.php

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Saturday, September 3, 2016 2:48 PM

ELVISCHRIST

Quote:
Originally posted by whozit:
You do now that New York mag is one the most unreliable rags on the planet right? Maybe not. This is just their lame attempt to get Don to release his tax returns. You believe this scum over FOX News don't ya?

What is he hiding? What is he afraid we'll find out if his tax returns are released?

This is a guy who has never held any elected office, and he's trying to make the case that he's a great businessman and deserves to run the country based on his prowess as said businessman.

But he can offer no evidence of his business expertise except a string of bankruptcies, unpaid contractors, illegal immigrants he hired to work for him so he could pay them less and threaten them with deportation if they complained, and more.

Hell, he even want to outsource the job of building a wall, making someone else pay for it!

And there is an awful lot of mounting evidence that he is indeed a pedophile and a child molester, neither of which would ever stop Republicans from voting for him, of course.

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Saturday, September 3, 2016 3:48 PM

Seriously. How do you go bankrupt running a freaking casino?

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Saturday, September 3, 2016 8:55 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
"Many people are saying that Trump’s tax returns reveal donations to the North American Man/Boy Love Association, an advocacy group for pedophiles."- REAVERFAN

... There is lesson from LBJ of Texas, my home state, in how to smash an opponent. Legend has it that LBJ, in one of his early congressional campaigns, told one of his aides to spread the story that Johnson's opponent fucked pigs. The aide responded "Christ, Lyndon, we can't call the guy a pigfucker. It isn't true." To which LBJ supposedly replied "Of course it ain't true, but I want to make the son-of-a-bitch deny it."

Today's Democrats could learn a lesson from this.-SECOND

They already have. Witness this thread.

Democrats ... Hillary included ... are willing to say anything .... anything ... to discredit Trump.

Trump is an agent of Putin. So is Nigel Farage. So is Marine Le Pen. And all nationalists, apparently.

Hillary landed at the Bosnian airport under fire. Not.

Ludicrous.

--------------
I think it's time you disabused yourself of that pleasant little fairy tale about our fearless leaders being some sort of surrogate daddy or mommy, laying awake at night thinking about how to protect the kids. HA! In reality, they're thinking about who to sell them to so that they can get a few more shekels in their pockets.

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Saturday, September 3, 2016 9:11 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Huffington Post terminates former contributing writer for linking to a video on Hillary's health (viewed 3.5 million times already) and terminates his access.

"This kind of thing happens in mainland China"

Judging by the number of views that this video got, I believe this is the video that he linked to

--------------
I think it's time you disabused yourself of that pleasant little fairy tale about our fearless leaders being some sort of surrogate daddy or mommy, laying awake at night thinking about how to protect the kids. HA! In reality, they're thinking about who to sell them to so that they can get a few more shekels in their pockets.

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Saturday, September 3, 2016 9:27 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Democrats ... Hillary included ... are willing to say anything .... anything ... to discredit Trump.

When newscasters quote Trump’s statements back to his representatives, they reply, “That’s not what Mr. Trump is saying”; his words aren’t held to convey a fixed message. This obscurity comes to a head when Trump experiences his self-described “softening” on immigration, only to have his surrogates insist that there has been no change. “He hasn’t changed his position on immigration,” Katrina Pierson, a spokesperson, says on CNN. “He’s changed the words that he is saying.”

To know what Trump means, despite the words that he is saying, you have to understand—or think you understand—the message before he opens his mouth.
www.wsj.com/articles/donald-trumps-mixed-signals-on-immigration-cause-
a-flap-1472169148

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Sunday, September 4, 2016 3:33 AM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

How many of Trump's lies were about wars he voted for? People he bombed? Guns he ran? Coups he fomented? Countries he destroyed?

Let me just point out that the author left out vital relevant facts in the opinion piece. Doing that is known as cherry-picking. And whether you do that in the news, in discussion, in debate or in opinion, when you distort the facts, you've changed the nature of your communication into propaganda. But WE don't have any of THAT in the US, do we?!

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Sunday, September 4, 2016 4:18 AM

'Tis true, 'tis true...........he's a different type of scumbag. Yes, he's never killed anyone; or so they say. There is a good reason, I guess, why he's never been afforded the opportunity.

But, I digress. As you have emphatically stated, several times I might add, Hillary is the Anti-Christ, Beelzebub, The Prince of Darkness, She who shall not be Named......say it with me...............The Devil.

And I say, why not vote for the best.......................in the end, what does it matter, the End is Nigh!

SGG

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
How many of Trump's lies were about wars he voted for? People he bombed? Guns he ran? Coups he fomented? Countries he destroyed?

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Sunday, September 4, 2016 4:23 AM

Let's face it, Trump speaks in code, we all know it. In truth, he needs no
help from Hillary; he's doing a fantastic job all by his lonesome. He's the
consummate salesman, he could sell ice cubes to Eskimos. He said so.

SGG

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Democrats ... Hillary included ... are willing to say anything .... anything ... to discredit Trump.
When newscasters quote Trump’s statements back to his representatives, they reply, “That’s not what Mr. Trump is saying”; his words aren’t held to convey a fixed message. This obscurity comes to a head when Trump experiences his self-described “softening” on immigration, only to have his surrogates insist that there has been no change. “He hasn’t changed his position on immigration,” Katrina Pierson, a spokesperson, says on CNN. “He’s changed the words that he is saying.”

To know what Trump means, despite the words that he is saying, you have to understand—or think you understand—the message before he opens his mouth.
www.wsj.com/articles/donald-trumps-mixed-signals-on-immigration-cause-
a-flap-1472169148

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Sunday, September 4, 2016 4:52 AM

That's odd! why would anyone try to 'gag' a reporter. Why would anyone ban
one of society's watchdog's - you know, the Fourth Estate! The First Amendment specifically,
among other things, prohibits infringing on the
freedom of the press, etc. and so forth.

This is an outrage! Who would dare infringe the press, one of our guaranteed
freedoms. This is un-American, is what this is!!!

Who would do such a thing! Let me guess, Hillary! No!, Obama, yeah he gets
blamed for everything. Nope, I was right the first time.....Hillary, from
now on it's her fault. The world's problems - floods, famine and disease,
it's her fault.

Trump Bans the Washington Post!

Putin......er, I mean Trump's Ban of Press Outlets continued

Trump The Dick-tator impinges the Press

Sorry, wrong Press coverage.

SGG

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Huffington Post terminates former contributing writer for linking to a video on Hillary's health (viewed 3.5 million times already) and terminates his access.

"This kind of thing happens in mainland China"

Judging by the number of views that this video got, I believe this is the video that he linked to

--------------
I think it's time you disabused yourself of that pleasant little fairy tale about our fearless leaders being some sort of surrogate daddy or mommy, laying awake at night thinking about how to protect the kids. HA! In reality, they're thinking about who to sell them to so that they can get a few more shekels in their pockets.

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Sunday, September 4, 2016 5:18 AM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
'Tis true, 'tis true...........he's a different type of scumbag. Yes, he's never killed anyone; or so they say. There is a good reason, I guess, why he's never been afforded the opportunity.

But, I digress. As you have emphatically stated, several times I might add, Hillary is the Anti-Christ, Beelzebub, The Prince of Darkness, She who shall not be Named......say it with me...............The Devil.

And I say, why not vote for the best.......................in the end, what does it matter, the End is Nigh!

SGG

But you don't believe that. Because you don't REALLY think there's a downside potential with Hillary.

It's all about upside and downside potentials.

There's not a whole lot of upside with Hillary. First of all, she's not in a position to make good on most, or many, or probably not even any of her pages and pages and pages of platform promises. Second of all, she's not even a decent mouthpiece for them, since she doesn't believe in them and won't stump for them. But when it comes to downside potential, and nuclear weapons: "Right now, American policy is to reserve the right to launch first — that is, before the president has reason to think that nuclear weapons have actually been loosed upon the United States; that is, in the absence of any hard evidence that a bomb has actually detonated.
If you go to Clinton’s website, look under “Issues,” and hit the button (sorry) for “Military and defense,” then search for “nuclear,” you’ll come up blank. ... Does Clinton avoid broaching it because she doesn’t want to look soft, or because she’s afraid to scare the bejeezus out of the country by noting that it is currently American policy to reserve the right to launch nuclear weapons first ..."

Donald otoh has said this about nuclear weapons: “(I) wouldn’t dismiss the possibility of using nuclear weapons … I don’t want to rule out anything. I will be the last to use nuclear weapons. It’s a horror to use nuclear weapons. The power of weaponry today is the single greatest problem that our world has. I will be the last to use it. I will not be a happy trigger like some people might be. I will be the last, but I will never ever rule it out.” And he wants to reduce tensions with Russia. That seems far more sane and a definite upside potential.
As for his downside potential, well, we'd have to depend on Senate democrats to mitigate that.

http://www.salon.com/2016/09/02/the-non-nuclear-option-the-most-urgent
-threat-to-human-civilization-is-not-trump_partner/

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Sunday, September 4, 2016 6:57 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:

How many of Trump's lies were about wars he voted for? People he bombed? Guns he ran? Coups he fomented? Countries he destroyed?

None, because he has been playing games all his life. In contrast, there is the crew of Serenity. They are all earnest. Their decisions are as irreversible as death. They can't go to court or declare bankruptcy. Everyone they deal with will start shooting when Mal breaks his word. Trump's life is a completely different TV show.

Trump’s campaign chairman said in May: “This is the ultimate reality show. It’s the presidency of the United States.”

Each stage of Trump’s life, and campaign, has been something of a reality show. His privileged youth was Paris Hilton’s “The Simple Life,” his years in New York’s tabloid culture “Keeping Up With the Kardashians,” his professional life “Million Dollar Listing,” his three marriages “The Bachelor” and, with Melania, “90 Day Fiance.”

In the campaign, his courtship of the religious right was “Duck Dynasty,” his systematic elimination of his 16 competitors in the GOP primary was “Survivor.”

Trump’s national spokeswoman, Katrina Pierson, has been doing double duty on a reality show, “Sisters in Law.” Omarosa Manigault and another “Apprentice” alum are Trump surrogates. One of Trump’s ex-wives, Marla Maples, was just on “Dancing With the Stars.”

Trump’s campaign is reality television’s hostile takeover of the U.S. political system. The winner is often the one who generates the most shock and who commands the most attention.

When Trump launched his campaign the rules of reality TV came along for the ride, in which the person who says the worst stuff is rewarded with the most airtime. Under these rules, fame disengaged itself from achievement. In this world, you became famous especially if you were the guy that nobody liked. In fact, the more despicable, the better.

Trump followed this plot device over and over again, causing one outrage after another — and it worked. It didn’t much matter what the issue was or what people thought of Trump; if they were talking about him, if he dominated the news cycle, he won.

Having a reality-TV celebrity running for commander in chief may subconsciously signal our brains to participate in this election the same way we’ve grown accustomed to consuming reality shows, believing that none of it is genuine, that none of it has any actual consequences. It doesn’t matter if two out of three claims Trump makes are false, or if he proposes dangerous ideas: It’s only entertainment.

Reality TV may favor scoundrels, but reality can be more judgmental. One of the earliest heroes of the genre, the Machiavellian Richard Hatch, won “Survivor” — and later won himself 51 months in prison for tax evasion. May Trump get prison once he releases his tax returns.
www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/reality-interrupts-the-trump-show/2016
/09/02/d543606a-7127-11e6-8365-b19e428a975e_story.html

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, September 4, 2016 7:20 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:

But you don't believe that. Because you don't REALLY think there's a downside potential with Hillary.

It's all about upside and downside potentials.

What Trump’s hires reveal about GOP candidate

Ruth Marcus says questionable campaign staff decisions pale in face of latest move to bring on the ‘Captain Ahab of Clinton haters.’

WASHINGTON — Lie down with dogs, get up with fleas, the old saying goes. If so, Donald Trump should be awfully itchy.

Trump has just augmented his ever-changing cast of mostly second-string campaign operatives with a new deputy campaign manager, conservative activist David Bossie. “A friend of mine for many years,” Trump told my Washington Post colleague Robert Costa. “Solid. Smart. Loves politics, knows how to win.”

That’s one way to put it. Win at any cost would be another, and that’s being polite. If Bossie’s name doesn’t ring a bell, you’re lucky, because it means that you haven’t been immersed for the last two decades-plus in the mucky minutiae of the right’s no-holds-barred war against Bill and Hillary Clinton.

This is a war in which Bossie has risen from foot soldier to general, in large part thanks to his willingness to do anything in pursuit of his prey. He is the Captain Ahab of Clinton haters.

Some highlights:

Back in 1992, Bossie was working with Floyd Brown, of Willie Horton 1988 campaign ad fame, on an anti-Clinton effort that included a phone line in which callers could pay $4.99 to hear supposed sex tapes between Bill Clinton and Gennifer Flowers. President George HW. Bush denounced the tactic as “the kind of sleaze that diminishes the political process” and filed a Federal Election Commission complaint against the group, the Presidential Victory Commission.

Bossie’s particular contribution to this effort involved harassing friends and family of a former law student of Clinton’s, Susan Coleman, who had committed suicide. As reported by CBS’ Eric Engberg, Bossie’s effort involved trying to prove that Coleman shot herself after having a sexual relationship with Clinton and becoming pregnant.

Bossie and another investigator pursued Coleman’s mother to an Army hospital where her husband was being treated for a stroke. “Here the two men burst into the sick man’s room, and began questioning the shaken mother about her daughter’s suicide,” Engberg reported.

Five years later, Lloyd Grove recounted in The Washington Post, “A chastened Bossie later told friends that the CBS story had made his grandmother cry.”

Chastened? Not so much. Grove was writing about Bossie because he had landed himself back in the news, this time as a committee investigator for former Republican Rep. Dan Burton (famed for claiming Vince Foster was murdered and shooting a pumpkin, or maybe a melon, to prove it).

After working with Bossie for several months on the investigation into Clinton’s campaign fundraising, the committee’s chief counsel and two other staffers, with the lawyer, John Rowley III, issued a public letter denouncing Bossie’s “unrelenting, self-promoting actions.”

“Not since Roy Cohn — the bare-knuckled chief counsel for Sen. Joe McCarthy in the Red-hunting hearings of the 1950s — has a congressional staffer been so thoroughly demonized by his enemies,” Grove wrote. The comparison is particularly striking in retrospect, since post-McCarthy Cohn became Trump’s lawyer.

Less than a year later, Burton was forced to apologize to his colleagues and Bossie resigned under pressure, after accusations that tapes of former Hillary Clinton law partner Webster Hubbell had been unfairly edited to exclude exculpatory comments about whether Clinton had known of his phony billing. (She had “no idea,” Hubbell said.)

In a closed-door Republican conference meeting, then-House Speaker Newt Gingrich told Burton he was “embarrassed ... at the circus that went on at your committee,” The Washington Post reported.

Since then, of course, Bossie, now at the helm of Citizens United, has continued his pursuit, now focused on Hillary. The Citizens United Supreme Court ruling grew out of his 2008 “Hillary: The Movie.”

My point is not that the Clintons are blameless — they aren’t — but that a candidate can be judged by the company he keeps and, especially, the individuals he hires. Trump has shed, sort of, Corey Lewandowski (recommended to him by, yes, Bossie) and Paul Manafort.

Now he has brought on Breitbart News chairman Steve Bannon (recommended to him by, yes, Bossie) as the campaign’s chief executive officer, and with him questions about Bannon’s voter registration at a vacant Florida house and charges, ultimately dismissed, of domestic abuse by his ex-wife.

The grown-up in the room with Trump — at least the one who’s not related to him — is campaign manager Kellyanne Conway, who has a reputation as a capable professional but has been praising her candidate for his supposed “pivot ... to substance” and vowing, in regard to Clinton, “we’re going to fight her on substance .”

Uh huh. Now comes Bossie, lauded by Conway as “a battle-tested warrior and a brilliant strategist.”

Scratch, scratch.
www.oregonlive.com/opinion/index.ssf/2016/09/trumps_new_hire_is_captai
n_aha.html

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Sunday, September 4, 2016 12:09 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Democrats ... Hillary included ... are willing to say anything .... anything ... to discredit Trump.- SIGNY

Including that Trump, Farage, Le Pen, AfD, and even Assange, are all part of that great Russian conspiracy to make sure Hillary doesn't get elected, and the equally ludicrous assertion that it was the Russians who hacked the DNC server.

I just had to bring that up to remind you pro-Hillary people the truly ridiculous depths to which her campaign has gone. They rival anything that Trump has said for sheer ludicrousness.

Trump says dumb things off the top of his head. The man has no filter between his ADHD-brain and his mouth. That man needs a shock collar!

Hillary and her campaign, OTOH, say really dishonest things with malice aforethought.

You clearly didn't watch the video, and listen to Hillary's endless string of lies, evasions, and reversals....
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60790

-----

Personal emails are my personal business.

We turned over everything that was work-related. Every single thing.

90 to 95% of my work-related emails were in the State system. If they wanted to see them they would certainly have been able to do so... We learned that from the State Department analysis. (Contradicted by Inspector General's analysis that less than 1% of Hillary's State Dept emails were accounted for.)

This was a fast-moving series of events in the fog of war. (Her excuse for blaming the killing of Ambassador Stevens on movie about Allah)

The server contains personal communications from my husband and me (Bill: "The only time I went on the internet, I wrote two emails and ordered Christmas presents from a reservation. I found people said embarrassing things on emails, I didn't want to be one of them.")

How many angels dance on the head of a pin? *laughter* I mean, how do you answer that? (Deflecting yet another question about her emails.)

I am so sick of the Sanders Campaign lying about me.

Q: Do you think New York State should recognize gay marriage?
A: No
I believe that marriage is between a man and a woman.
I do not support gay marriage.

-----

This is just the first four minutes of a 37-minute video.

We haven't even gotten to free trade, and all of the scandals in which document-hiding played such an important part, and including Bill's "Pardons for contributions to my wife's Senate campaign" scheme, which netted Hillary millions of dollars.

Trump may blurt out silly statements, but Hillary (and Bill) are inveterate liars. So, getting to Hillary's latest scandals ...

PRESS CONFERENCES?
You know, of course, that Hillary has not had a press conference - where people get to ask her questions... for (by now) over 273 days. (But who's counting?)

Hillary didn't have the balls to address that topic directly. but of course left it to her press secretary to podcast:

Quote:
Naturally, as questions mount if and when the Democratic Presidential candidate will finally speak to the press, overnight Clinton's press secretary, Brian Fallon, had some good news, when he assured an ABC News podcast that she will hold regular press conferences, but under one condition.

That she is president... This is not a joke: this is how ABC put it, "Clinton’s lead press secretary, Brian Fallon, vowed that if elected, “Hillary Clinton will hold press conferences.” And here we were worried that if elected, Hillary would serve Clinton Foundation corporation and Middle Eastern donors for (at least) 4 years without speaking to the press at least once (an idea Trump may want to consider).

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-09-03/hillary-promises-deliver-regu
lar-press-conferences-one-condition

Of course, Hillary has had plenty of "interviews" where preprepared softballs are lobbed at her, but nothing where she has had to interact flexibly in multiple directions and on fast-moving topics. It may be saying something about her health and her neurological robustness. I wonder if she will ever make it to a debate?

MORE SERVER WIPES?
This article details the many instances where Hillary's staff was instructed to BleachBit her server and its backups.

Quote:
Now this brings us all the way up to December 2014 when Clinton sent the 55,000 pages to the State Department. Recall, as Politico previously reported, Hillary brought in a former campaign staffer, Heather Samuelson (34 years old), to help determine which emails were "work related" and which "yoga related."

Shortly after providing that data dump to the State Department, in "December 2014 or January 2015," both Heather Samuelson and Cheryl Mills requested that all emails be removed from their computers using "a program called BleachBit to delete the e-mail-related files so they could not be recovered."

For her part, "Clinton stated she never deleted, nor did she instruct anyone to delete, her e-mails to avoid complying with FOIA, State or FBI requests for information."

and how they tracked down and instructed the deletion of backup emails AFTER a subpoena for them was issued:

Quote:
On March 25, 2015, the Undisclosed PRN Staff Member had a "conference call with President Clinton's staff." Apparently, in the days following that call, the Undisclosed PRN Staff Member had an "'oh shit' moment" when he realized he had forgotten to wipe the PRN server clean as he had been instructed to do back in December by Cheryl Mills.

Therefore, sometime within the 6 days after a call with "President [sic] Clinton's Staff," that PRN server was wiped clean using BleachBit despite the subpoena from the House Select Committee on Benghazi received weeks earlier on March 4, 2016.

.... Ironically, the rogue IT guy from PRN even admits to deleting the emails even though he "was aware of the existence of the preservation request and the fact that it meant he should not disturb Clinton's e-mail data on the PRN server."

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-09-02/fbi-report-shows-how-bleachbi
t-deleted-hillary-clintons-oh-shit-moment

--------------
I think it's time you disabused yourself of that pleasant little fairy tale about our fearless leaders being some sort of surrogate daddy or mommy, laying awake at night thinking about how to protect the kids. HA! In reality, they're thinking about who to sell them to so that they can get a few more shekels in their pockets.

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Sunday, September 4, 2016 4:35 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

"In contrast, there is the crew of Serenity."

Because nothing says REAL WORLD EVENTS like a fictional story. Slipped a cog there, second?

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Sunday, September 4, 2016 4:39 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Back to the real world:

Do Hillary's lies about these topics not disturb you, second? ... wars voted for ... people bombed ... guns that were run to ISIS ... coups fomented ... countries destroyed ...

Does Hillary's adherence to America's first strike nuclear policy not cause you any concern, second?

And if not, why not?

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Sunday, September 4, 2016 7:37 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Back to the real world:

Do Hillary's lies about these topics not disturb you, second? ... wars voted for ... people bombed ... guns that were run to ISIS ... coups fomented ... countries destroyed ...

Does Hillary's adherence to America's first strike nuclear policy not cause you any concern, second?

And if not, why not?

Do I care about 1kiki's careful arguments about not letting Hillary have the launch codes? No!

Is Hillary the best man for the job? No!

That would be Trump! Or Kaine! Or Libertarian Johnson!

But there are other considerations:

Who didn’t publicize his tax returns? Trump!
www.factcheck.org/2016/09/kaine-muffs-trump-nixon-comparison/

Who will appoint the next Scalia? Trump!

Who purchased ads demanding execution of the Central Park Five? Trump!

Who has been bankrupted and divorced and sued thousands of times? Trump!

Who is the bigger liar? Trump!
www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/lists/people/comparing-hillary-clinto
n-donald-trump-truth-o-met/

I am voting for the unTrump or the opposite of the Trump!

Does anyone know who that would be? Bernie or Kaine, maybe, if Hillary is killed by Trump's second amendment followers before the election?

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, September 4, 2016 8:10 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

Quote:
Originally posted by reaverfan:
"Many people are saying that Trump’s tax returns reveal donations to the North American Man/Boy Love Association, an advocacy group for pedophiles."

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligence...re-saying-donald-trump-donated-t
o-nambla.html

If this is true, is it because Trump himself is a pedophile? After all, we have proof that Republican politicos molest children 18 times more frequently than Dems.

Do we really want a pedophile in the Oval Office?

I, for one, don't. That's why I can't vote for Donald Trump. Supporting NAMBLA is supporting pedophilia, and I believe it's wrong. I'm voting my values.

NO PEDOPHILES IN THE WHITE HOUSE! NO TO TRUMP!

SJW wow...

I worked with a lot of politicians that flew down to Costa Rica to fuck 16 year old hotties where it was legal.

If I had an evil bone in my body, I would have scanned every single image of politicians you might have heard of with a 16 year old tit in their mouth with their thumbs up on those trips.

I'm not even going to look at your supposed proof.

If Trump donated money to NAMBLA, Hilary would have already won the election with 99% of the popular vote.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Sunday, September 4, 2016 10:23 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Because Donald's taxes are so much more vital than Hillary aggressively provoking Russia - and keeping the US's nuclear strike-first policy? Because Senate democrats can't be counted on to be the party of 'no' to republican aims? Because the Billary corruption machine that mixes personal gain with government power is trivial? Because when Donald lies about personal things it overshadows Hillary lying about national security and her 'personal' server?

You've done everything except say right out that you're going to vote for a party that isn't going to represent you. You might as well fold your hands and present your butt right now.

Meanwhile, I've gotten my 'I told you so' posts all lined up.

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Sunday, September 4, 2016 10:46 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

I'm not even going to look at your supposed proof.

If Trump donated money to NAMBLA, Hilary would have already won the election with 99% of the popular vote.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Had you bothered to read this thread, you'd know what I was doing. It would have taken you less time than posting what you erroneously posted.

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Monday, September 5, 2016 3:18 AM

Quote:
Donald otoh has said this about nuclear weapons: “(I) wouldn’t dismiss the possibility of using nuclear weapons … I don’t want to rule out anything. I will be the last to use nuclear weapons. It’s a horror to use nuclear weapons. The power of weaponry today is the single greatest problem that our world has. I will be the last to use it. I will not be a happy trigger like some people might be. I will be the last, but I will never ever rule it out.” And he wants to reduce tensions with Russia. That seems far more sane and a definite upside potential.
As for his downside potential, well, we'd have to depend on Senate democrats to mitigate that.

First of all, did we grow up together and I wasn't aware of it? Is that what you decipher? That I believe there is no "downside" to a Hillary presidency.
Funny, am I that predictable? Gee, and I thought I was a Pisces.

Tell me something, is Donald predictable? Some may say, no he's quite the
opposite. But really, how many times has he flipped the switch? How many times has he said one thing and then completely go off the rails? His big immigration speech, he blatantly lied through his teeth and said that
paying for the Wall wasn't discussed. Well, that doesn't matter either.
You think you know everything, well make all the predictions and statements
you want. In the end it doesn't matter because you know nothing. You want to hate on Hillary, be my guest. Have at it. Don't go telling me what I do or don't believe..........you do not know me. And I don't know you, don't care
to.

I want Trump to win so badly. Why? To finally shut up the mouths of people that swear they know everything. I don't know what will happen, no more than you do. But I do know how I feel about this lying sack of shit. I want him
to win to see him build that Wall, to see him deport 11 million people, to see him create those jobs for the black community, and for you folks too.
Oh, there will be blood.......make no mistake. He will make America white again, so sorry, Great again! Fuck him and the fucking shitboat he came in on. Hope he wins and keeps his promises, no matter how asinine they are.

Hope he wins and plunges this country into a shit-storm of grief, pain and
financial ruin. Yes, he will make America Broke Again with his fantastic
tax structure that favors the rich. With his asinine policies that will
bankrupt this nation - Wall, Mass deportation, connections to Russia (among other things). Yes, you guys will be selling Tacos on every corner, cleaning toilets and growing pot all with the Trump logo prominently displayed.
Even so-called republicans have stated as much. The Wall will cost this country billions, if not trillions to build. And to what purpose? His economic plan (wait, I gotta stop chuckling) favors corporations and the rich exclusively. Joe Blow will have to fend for himself. You really think he's going to help the black community at large? FUCK NO! He didn't even want them living in his luxury apartments.

Of course he wants to make nice with Russia, he has a lot invested there.
Please don't bother. I follow the script he wrote. You talk shit about Hillary, but Trump, although you say you are not voting for him, you blindly
defend. And then you accuse me of being blind to Hillary's evil-doing.
Yeah, you got that right. I believe you have been totally objective.
Yep, Trump should definitely beat Hillary.

Yeah, Make America ____________ Again!

SGG

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Monday, September 5, 2016 8:07 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Donald otoh has said this about nuclear weapons: “(I) wouldn’t dismiss the possibility of using nuclear weapons … I don’t want to rule out anything. I will be the last to use nuclear weapons. It’s a horror to use nuclear weapons. The power of weaponry today is the single greatest problem that our world has. I will be the last to use it. I will not be a happy trigger like some people might be. I will be the last, but I will never ever rule it out.” And he wants to reduce tensions with Russia. That seems far more sane and a definite upside potential.
As for his downside potential, well, we'd have to depend on Senate democrats to mitigate that.- KIKI

First of all, did we grow up together and I wasn't aware of it? Is that what you decipher? That I believe there is no "downside" to a Hillary presidency. Funny, am I that predictable?

Yes

Quote:
Gee, and I thought I was a Pisces.

So?

Quote:
Tell me something, is Donald predictable? Some may say, no he's quite the opposite. But really, how many times has he flipped the switch? How many times has he said one thing and then completely go off the rails? His big immigration speech, he blatantly lied through his teeth and said that paying for the Wall wasn't discussed. Well, that doesn't matter either. You think you know everything, well make all the predictions and statements you want. In the end it doesn't matter because you know nothing. You want to hate on Hillary, be my guest. Have at it. Don't go telling me what I do or don't believe ..........you do not know me. And I don't know you, don't care to.

I want Trump to win so badly.

So are you going to vote for him?

Quote:
Why? To finally shut up the mouths of people that swear they know everything. I don't know what will happen, no more than you do. But I do know how I feel about this lying sack of shit. I want him to win to see him build that Wall, to see him deport 11 million people, to see him create those jobs for the black community, and for you folks too.

So are you going to vote for him?

Quote:
Oh, there will be blood

Armageddon! Catastrophe!

Quote:
.......make no mistake. He will make America white again, so sorry, Great again! Fuck him and the fucking shitboat he came in on. Hope he wins and keeps his promises, no matter how asinine they are. Hope he wins and plunges this country into a shit-storm of grief, pain and financial ruin.

Do you think The Donald "will" plunge this nation into grief, pain and financial ruin?
Hey dood, you don't have to wait that long- we're already there! Or haven't you noticed?

Quote:
Yes, he will make America Broke Again

You can't break "again" what is already broken. Do you have ANY idea the kind of debt that we have piled up individually, corporately, governmentally, and in the investment firms? Oh my Lord, each American owes $60,000 already, every man woman and child, and that's just what the government owes. We will NEVER pay off that debt.

Quote:
with his fantastic tax structure that favors the rich.

Bull. Shit.
Wealthy people and big corporations.... they ALREADY don't pay taxes. It doesn't matter- to them- if Hillary raises taxes to 90% or Trump lowers them to 10%, they will still be paying the same fraction of taxes that they were before: less than 10%

Hillary's biggest donors, you might have noticed, are all international wealth management firms . yanno, the kind that will (for a sizable fee) unearth a 15-year-old dummy corporation or a 10-year-old foundation, with "instant history" that you can stuff your wealth into. All for the purpose of tax avoidance. If you had any idea of the measures that the wealthy go to to hide their wealth, and the helping hand that these international law firms and banks are willing to extend, you would be shocked. I had just three strategies explained to me, and I was amazed.

Quote:
With his asinine policies that will bankrupt this nation

Sorry, but Reagan, Bush, Bush, and Obama got there ahead of him

Quote:
Wall, Mass deportation, connections to Russia (among other things). Yes, you guys will be selling Tacos on every corner, cleaning toilets and growing pot all with the Trump logo prominently displayed.

I thought we would be cleaning up blood?

Quote:
Even so-called republicans have stated as much. The Wall will cost this country billions, if not trillions to build.

And illegal immigration hasn't cost Americans a penny?

SHINY, just walk through this with me, when you stop being so upset.Because where you will wind up is recognizing that the American PEOPLE didn't benefit from massive illegal immigration, only the transnationals.

So, why be "for illegal immigration"?

Quote:
And to what purpose? His economic plan (wait, I gotta stop chuckling) favors corporations and the rich exclusively.

No, it favors those who actually pay taxes: the middle class and small to medium-sized businesses. Because if you don't change the tax code ... eliminate the subsidies, tax breaks, depreciations, international money-shuffling etc ... you can yank the tax rate around all you like and it still works out in favor of big money.

Quote:
Joe Blow will have to fend for himself. You really think he's going to help the black community at large? FUCK NO! He didn't even want them living in his luxury apartments.
Of course he wants to make nice with Russia, he has a lot invested there.

SUCH AS???? Or is this yet another hysterical claim against Trump?

Quote:
Please don't bother. I follow the script he wrote. You talk shit about Hillary, but Trump, although you say you are not voting for him

You get all aggravated when people claim to speak for you, and yet here you are, speaking (untruthfully) about me.

I've said that if he comes within striking distance... and given how polls are manipulated, that means being withing 10% of Hillary, I WILL vote for Trump. Otherwise, I'll vote for Jill Stein.

Quote:
you blindly defend. And then you accuse me of being blind to Hillary's evil-doing. Yeah, you got that right. I believe you have been totally objective.
Yep, Trump should definitely beat Hillary.

You should stop mixing bitter sarcasm with statements that are to be read at face value. Or, if you do mix them in together, at least end your sarcastic comments with [/sarc] (end sarcasm).

Quote:
Yeah, Make America ____________ Again!

Make America America again.

--------------
I think it's time you disabused yourself of that pleasant little fairy tale about our fearless leaders being some sort of surrogate daddy or mommy, laying awake at night thinking about how to protect the kids. HA! In reality, they're thinking about who to sell them to so that they can get a few more shekels in their pockets.

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Monday, September 5, 2016 8:21 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:

Meanwhile, I've gotten my 'I told you so' posts all lined up.

You need a twitter account so you can start now. Jayne's tweets would be a good example, but don't delete like he does. The world loses a vital resource when Jayne, every week, removes all his past tweets and starts fresh. Let your Hillary hatred build for years. Unlike Jayne, you don't need to worry that your political statements will interfere with getting a job in Hollywood.
https://twitter.com/AdamBaldwin/

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:

Because Donald's taxes are so much more vital than Hillary aggressively provoking Russia - and keeping the US's nuclear strike-first policy? Because Senate democrats can't be counted on to be the party of 'no' to republican aims? Because the Billary corruption machine that mixes personal gain with government power is trivial? Because when Donald lies about personal things it overshadows Hillary lying about national security and her 'personal' server?

You've done everything except say right out that you're going to vote for a party that isn't going to represent you. You might as well fold your hands and present your butt right now.

It really does matter that Trump tax cheated, divorced, bankrupted, and sued thousands of times. Well, it does NOT matter if you hate Hillary and Trump is the only thing stopping her.

Who disbelieves 1kiki careful arguments about nukes and Hillary? Me!

It really does matter that the USA and Russia fell in love with the atom bomb before Hillary was born, but 1kik is blaming Hillary for “provoking” Russia. I think the simple existence of thousands of American nukes would provoke craziness in Russia. And Russians sure did respond like crazy. There are millions of Russians and Americans, living and dead, who were building the actual atom bombs. This was a major industry in both countries, but bigger in Russia because of their unique craziness. See the graph, below. Most of those millions knew what they were doing and who they wanted to nuke, yet Hillary gets all the blame from 1kiki for “provoking” Russia. 1kiki must really hate Hillary to shift all the blame to her.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_arms_race

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Monday, September 5, 2016 8:24 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
I think the simple existence of thousands of American nukes would provoke craziness in Russia.- SECOND

Then you're stupid. Or willfully blinding yourself to the history of nuclear weapons and American foreign policy since Reagan.

--------------
I think it's time you disabused yourself of that pleasant little fairy tale about our fearless leaders being some sort of surrogate daddy or mommy, laying awake at night thinking about how to protect the kids. HA! In reality, they're thinking about who to sell them to so that they can get a few more shekels in their pockets.

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Monday, September 5, 2016 8:39 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
I think the simple existence of thousands of American nukes would provoke craziness in Russia.- SECOND
Then you're stupid. Or willfully blinding yourself to the history of nuclear weapons and American foreign policies since Reagan.

I noticed that the French and the Chinese did not feel the need to build 40,000 nukes, like the Russians did, to counterbalance American nukes. It was the Russians that panicked, year after year, and could not stop themselves. What Russia and America did was not sane, but at least America had the Capitalist's excuse that building 30,000 nukes too many would make a larger profit than stopping at 1,000. In Russia, every nuke beyond the first thousand was a pure waste of resources and manpower.
www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/Nuclearweaponswhohaswhat

But if you want to blame Hillary for what FDR, Truman, Eisenhower, JFK, LBJ, Nixon, Khrushchev and Stalin did about nukes, you are welcome. Since Plutonium-239 has a half-life of 24,110 years, these leaders’ nuclear mistakes will be a long time in passing away naturally.

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Monday, September 5, 2016 8:54 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
I think the simple existence of thousands of American nukes would provoke craziness in Russia.- SECOND

Then you're stupid. Or willfully blinding yourself to the history of nuclear weapons and American foreign policies since Reagan.- SIGNY

I noticed that the French and the Chinese did not feel the need to build 40,000 nukes, like the Russians did, to counterbalance American nukes. It was the Russians that panicked, year after year, and could not stop themselves. What Russia and America did was not sane, but at least America had the Capitalist's excuse that building 30,000 nukes too many would make a larger profit than stopping at 1,000. In Russia, every nuke beyond the first thousand was a pure waste of resources and manpower.
www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/Nuclearweaponswhohaswhat

But if you want to blame Hillary for what FDR, Truman, Eisenhower, JFK, LBJ, Khrushchev and Stalin did about nukes, you are welcome.-SECOND

And now you're lying about what I said. You might have noticed or responded to (but chose to ignore) the fact that I referenced Reagan as the start of a new policy on nukes.

No wonder Hillary's lies, evasions and reversals don't bother you.

--------------
I think it's time you disabused yourself of that pleasant little fairy tale about our fearless leaders being some sort of surrogate daddy or mommy, laying awake at night thinking about how to protect the kids. HA! In reality, they're thinking about who to sell them to so that they can get a few more shekels in their pockets.

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Monday, September 5, 2016 9:08 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

And now you're lying about what I said. You might have noticed or responded to (but chose to ignore) the fact that I referenced Reagan as the start of a new policy on nukes.

No wonder Hillary's lies, evasions and reversals don't bother you.

What about Reagan's nuke policy was so much worse than Nixon's? Was it StarWars? Because I heard that physicists were telling the Pentagon that the goals were physically impossible. Did the Russians panic over the StarWars program and decided to build even more nukes to counterbalance StarWars?

I think the graph shows that the Russians did panic and kept on building to counter an imaginary threat from space-based weapons:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_arms_race

Notice that China did not feel the need to build thousands of nukes. It could be because they aren't killing their brains with binge drinking, unlike Americans and Russians.

www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/Nuclearweaponswhohaswhat

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Monday, September 5, 2016 9:45 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

First of all, that's a stupid chart. I know what the USA blue area means, but what does USSR/USA mean?

Total nukes?
Ratio of USSR to USA?
USSR alone?

Secondly, if you were to look up the various nuclear arms deals (SALT I, SALT II, START I, START II) you would see that where they were failed to be signed, more often it was the USA that failed to sign. The relevant signed treaty was START I, signed and implemented in 1990.
That treaty - which the USSR was happy to comply with- led to the sharp reduction in nuclear weapons.

Third, and most important, that chart that you brought to the board, however interpreted, clearly shows the USA as the aggressor nation. The nation that started and drove the arms race was NOT the USSR. There is, literally, no other way to interpret that period of time, from 1960 about 1975, when the USA had vastly more nuclear missiles than the USSR, more than enough missiles to wipe the Soviet Union off the map, and yet the USA started to build and continued to aggressively add to its nuclear stockpile. Not only that, but the USA had a history of actually using nuclear weapons against a primarily civilian target ... which was, btw, exactly why the USA used them against Japan: not to shorten the war, but to threaten Russia.

And yet, the nation that you castigate for defending itself is the Soviet Union?

Are you saying that every nation in the world was supposed to lie down in front of USA nuclear superiority?

--------------
I think it's time you disabused yourself of that pleasant little fairy tale about our fearless leaders being some sort of surrogate daddy or mommy, laying awake at night thinking about how to protect the kids. HA! In reality, they're thinking about who to sell them to so that they can get a few more shekels in their pockets.

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Monday, September 5, 2016 10:51 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
First of all, that's a stupid chart. I know what the USA blue area means, but what does USSR/USA mean?

Look again. It is USSR/Russia in the "stupid chart". Russia got a divorce from the Soviet Union and changed back to her maiden name.

I’ll grant you that America was the aggressor, but you forgot about radioactive fallout and Nuclear Winter. Physics, weather and fallout do not respect Russian or American national borders.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_winter I have some quibbles with this article because the writers don’t want to be proven even slightly wrong if and when WWIII doesn’t kill off absolutely all civilizations everywhere. In case New Zealand survives, the article uses weasel words to protect the writers’ precious reputations for moderation and accuracy in describing something that may never happen.

Americans and Russians knew about Nuclear Winter. China, France and UK knew, too, because it is physics. It is no secret. It places an upper limit on how many nukes can be exploded without killing yourself. American and Russian leaders blatantly ignored the limit. China, France and UK did not act so ignorant. Sensibly they stopped building when they had 300 bombs or less.

There is an analogy between firing nukes on Mother Earth and lead bullets fired into your mother: 10 lead bullets would be enough to kill that mother, but 100 or 1,000 or 10,000 or 100,000? You are wasting bullets and killing yourself with the ricochet. Maybe some Russian and American Presidents have figured that out. Maybe they should talk to the Chinese and ask them to do a calculation on Nuclear Winter.

If they actually understood the calculation, maybe the American and Russian Presidents would follow China’s slightly smarter path and dismantle more of their nuclear arsenals. Neither Russia nor America needs to sign a treaty with the other country to do the smart thing. Or, maybe, they would repeat past mistakes and build thousands more atom bombs and just go on a drinking binge to kill their brains. At least we know that Trump does not drink, while Hillary does.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_arms_race

www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/Nuclearweaponswhohaswhat

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, September 5, 2016 7:06 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
First of all, did we grow up together and I wasn't aware of it? Is that what you decipher? That I believe there is no "downside" to a Hillary presidency.
Funny, am I that predictable? Gee, and I thought I was a Pisces.

You and second seem bound and determined to give away your vote for Hillary without demanding anything in return. Since you seem content with everything she has to offer, you find no fault, you express no reservations, you don't exercise the power to say 'no - unless', what else am I to conclude?

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Tell me something, is Donald predictable? ...
You think you know everything, well make all the predictions and statements
you want.
I want Trump to win so badly. Why? To finally shut up the mouths of people that swear they know everything. I want him to win to see him build that Wall ... Hope he wins and plunges this country into a shit-storm ...

And more blah blah blah ... I'm not pro-Donald. Something I've said from the very beginning. So your anti-Donald posts go right by me.
And as an aside, I think I can be FAR more forgiven for assuming you find no fault with Hillary - given your 100% lack of finding fault with Hillary - than you repeatedly misrepresenting me as being pro-Donald - given that fact that I've stated my position at least a dozen times.

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
... but Trump, although you say you are not voting for him, you blindly defend.

I do? I sure would like you to quote me on that.

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
You want to hate on Hillary, be my guest. Have at it.

It's true I personally hate Hillary. She brings on that same level of disgust I felt for dumbya, Dick et al. But that hasn't been the center of my arguments against her. They've been centered on her history, the results of her decisions which have been without exception disastrous, and her inability to learn from her failures given that she's carrying the same policies forward.
What *I* find remarkable is how loathe you are to discuss Hillary's VERY obvious issues in any rational way.

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Monday, September 5, 2016 8:15 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:

You and second seem bound and determined to give away your vote for Hillary without demanding anything in return. Since you seem content with everything she has to offer, you find no fault, you express no reservations, you don't exercise the power to say 'no - unless', what else am I to conclude?

I want to quibble with your without demanding anything in return. How do you imagine that "demand" would work? Do I get a signed contract from Hillary that she will give me my heart's desire or else I will withdraw my vote after the election and thus kick her out of the White House with my single withdrawn vote? She'd be making this agreement without knowing if I'd really vote for her. She'd never know if I voted for Trump, would she? The mechanics of making "demands" of the candidates just doesn't work, especially when Trump will promise anything and sign any paper to get elected. He is not sincere about any deal he has ever made in business.

By the way, 1kiki, you are mistaken that Trump is trustworthy around nukes:

https://thinkprogress.org/9-terrifying-things-donald-trump-has-publicl
y-said-about-nuclear-weapons-99f6290bc32a#.l2y65dcsq
Trump said he might use nuclear weapons and questioned why we would make them if we wouldn’t use them

MATTHEWS: Well, why would you — why wouldn’t you just say, “I don’t want to talk about it. I don’t want to talk about nuclear weapons. Presidents don’t talk about use of nuclear weapons”?

TRUMP: The question was asked — we were talking about NATO — which, by the way, I say is obsolete and we pay a dis —

MATTHEWS: But you got hooked into something you shouldn't have talked about.

TRUMP: I don’t think I — well, someday, maybe.

MATTHEWS: When? Maybe?

TRUMP: Of course. If somebody —

MATTHEWS: Where would we drop — where would we drop a nuclear weapon in the Middle East?

TRUMP: Let me explain. Let me explain.

Somebody hits us within ISIS — you wouldn't fight back with a nuke?

MATTHEWS: OK. The trouble is, when you said that, the whole world heard it. David Cameron in Britain heard it. The Japanese, where we bombed them in 45, heard it. They’re hearing a guy running for president of the United States talking of maybe using nuclear weapons. Nobody wants to hear that about an American president.

TRUMP: Then why are we making them? Why do we make them?

[MSNBC, March 30, 2016]

Trump said he was open to nuking Europe because it’s a “big place”

TRUMP: Well, I don’t want to take cards off the table. I would never do that. The last person to press that button would be me. Hey, I’m the one that didn’t want to go into Iraq from the beginning. The last person that wants to play the nuclear card believe me is me. But you can never take cards off the table either from a moral stand — from any standpoint and certainly from a negotiating standpoint.

BOLLING: Donald, I understand they are not taking the cards off the table for ISIS or Islamic terror. But when Chris expanded to Europe, what about that?

TRUMP: Europe is a big place. I’m not going to take cards off the table. We have nuclear capability. Now, our capability is going down rapidly because of what we’re doing. It’s in bad shape. The equipment is not properly maintained. There are all lot of talk about that. And that’s a bad thing not a good thing. The last person to use nuclear would be Donald Trump. That’s the way I feel. I think it is a horrible thing. The thought of it is horrible. But I don’t want to take anything off the table. We have to negotiate. There will be times maybe when we’re going to be in a very deep, very difficult, very horrible negotiation. The last person — I’m not going to take it off the table. And I said it yesterday. And I stay with it.

[Fox News, 3/31/16]

Trump said that “you want to be unpredictable” with nuclear weapons

DICKERSON: They talk about the presidency and who has the finger on the button. The United States has not used nuclear weapons since 1945. When should it?

TRUMP: Well, it is an absolute last stance. And, you know, I use the word unpredictable. You want to be unpredictable.

And somebody recently said — I made a great business deal. And the person on the other side was interviewed by a newspaper. And how did Trump do this? And they said, he’s so unpredictable. And I didn't know if he meant it positively or negative. It turned out he meant it positively.

[CBS, 1/3/16]

Trump reiterated that it was important to be “unpredictable” with nuclear weapons

TRUMP: But I have to say this, there are…

HALPERIN: You’d probably be the last to use nuclear weapons…

TRUMP: Nuclear…

HALPERIN: — against ISIS?

TRUMP: — nuclear.

HALPERIN: But you’re — so you would — you would rule in the possibility of using, right, nuclear weapons against ISIS?

TRUMP: Well, I’m never going to rule anything out.

HALPERIN: Right.

TRUMP: And I wouldn’t want to say — even if I felt it wasn’t going — — I wouldn’t want to tell you that…

HALPERIN: Right.

TRUMP: — because, at a minimum, I want them to think maybe we would use it, OK?

HALPERIN: Right.

TRUMP: It’s the worst thing when we do these interviews, we — with everybody, not me…

HALPERIN: Yes.

TRUMP: — and you ask a question like that and everybody comes clean and they’re so honest.
You know, we need unpredictability. The enemy, we have enemies. ISIS is a enemy. And it’s an enemy not wearing uniforms, so we don’t even know who the enemy is. You know, in the old days we’d have Japan or we’d have Germany or we’d have — they would have soldiers.

HALPERIN: Right.

TRUMP: They would be dressed, we’d be dressed, we’d know who we were fighting.

HALPERIN: Right.

TRUMP: You’d have — it was called a war.

We don’t know who these people are. The fact is, we need unpredictability. And when you ask a question like that, it’s a very — it’s a very sad thing to have to answer it, because the enemy is watching and I have a very good chance of winning and I frankly don’t want the enemy to know how I’m thinking.

[Bloomberg, 3/23/16]

Trump said he wasn’t that worried about more countries getting nukes since “it’s not like, gee whiz, nobody has them”

WALLACE: You want to have a nuclear arms race on the Korean peninsula?

TRUMP: In many ways, and I say this, in many ways, the world is changing. Right now, you have Pakistan and you have North Korea and you have China and you have Russia and you have India and you have the United States and many other countries have nukes.

WALLACE: Understood.

TRUMP: It’s not like, gee whiz, nobody has them.

[Fox News, 4/3/16]

Trump had no idea what the “nuclear triad” was

HEWITT: Mr. Trump…

… Dr. Carson just referenced the single most important job of the president, the command, the control and the care of our nuclear forces. And he mentioned the triad. The B-52s are older than I am. The missiles are old. The submarines are aging out. It’s an executive order. It’s a commander-in-chief decision.
What’s your priority among our nuclear triad?

TRUMP: Well, first of all, I think we need somebody absolutely that we can trust, who is totally responsible; who really knows what he or she is doing. That is so powerful and so important. And one of the things that I’m frankly most proud of is that in 2003, 2004, I was totally against going into Iraq because you’re going to destabilize the Middle East. I called it. I called it very strongly. And it was very important.

But we have to be extremely vigilant and extremely careful when it comes to nuclear. Nuclear changes the whole ball game. Frankly, I would have said get out of Syria; get out — if we didn’t have the power of weaponry today. The power is so massive that we can’t just leave areas that 50 years ago or 75 years ago we wouldn’t care. It was hand-to-hand combat.

The biggest problem this world has today is not President Obama with global warming, which is inconceivable, this is what he’s saying. The biggest problem we have is nuclear — nuclear proliferation and having some maniac, having some madman go out and get a nuclear weapon.

That’s in my opinion, that is the single biggest problem that our country faces right now.

HEWITT: Of the three legs of the triad, though, do you have a priority? I want to go to Senator Rubio after that and ask him.

TRUMP: I think — I think, for me, nuclear is just the power, the devastation is very important to me.

[CNN, 12/15/15]

Trump started talking about nuclear weapons in Pakistan and made no sense at all
Trump said he’d be OK with a nuclear arms race in Asia

BLITZER: But — but you’re ready to let Japan and South Korea become nuclear powers?

TRUMP: I am prepared to — if they’re not going to take care of us properly, we cannot afford to be the military and the police for the world. We are, right now, the police for the entire world. We are policing the entire world.

You know, when people look at our military and they say, “Oh, wow, that’s fantastic,” they have many, many times — you know, we spend many times what any other country spends on the military. But it’s not really for us. We’re defending other countries.

So all I’m saying is this: they have to pay.

And you know what? I’m prepared to walk, and if they have to defend themselves against North Korea, where you have a maniac over there, in my opinion, if they don’t — if they don’t take care of us properly, if they don’t respect us enough to take care of us properly, then you know what’s going to have to happen, Wolf?

It’s very simple. They’re going to have to defend themselves.

[CNN, 5/4/16]

The time he said it didn’t matter if Saudi Arabia acquired nuclear weapons because “it’s going to happen anyway”

COOPER: Saudi Arabia, nuclear weapons?

TRUMP: Saudi Arabia, absolutely.

COOPER: You would be fine with them having nuclear weapons?

TRUMP: No, not nuclear weapons, but they have to protect themselves or they have to pay us.

Here’s the thing, with Japan, they have to pay us or we have to let them protect themselves.

COOPER: So if you said, Japan, yes, it’s fine, you get nuclear weapons, South Korea, you as well, and Saudi Arabia says we want them, too?

TRUMP: Can I be honest with you? It’s going to happen, anyway. It’s going to happen anyway. It’s only a question of time. They’re going to start having them or we have to get rid of them entirely. But you have so many countries already, China, Pakistan, you have so many countries, Russia, you have so many countries right now that have them.

Now, wouldn’t you rather in a certain sense have Japan have nuclear weapons when North Korea has nuclear weapons? And they do have them. They absolutely have them. They can’t — they have no carrier system yet but they will very soon.

Wouldn’t you rather have Japan, perhaps, they’re over there, they’re very close, they’re very fearful of North Korea, and we’re supposed to protect.

[CNN, 3/29/16]

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Monday, September 5, 2016 8:22 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

How do you imagine that "demand" would work?

By withdrawing your support. As I've explained before - more than once - the only way Hillary will change course is if she sees her poll numbers slipping.

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Monday, September 5, 2016 9:46 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:

Quote:
How do you imagine that "demand" would work?

By withdrawing your support. As I've explained before - more than once - the only way Hillary will change course is if she sees her poll numbers slipping.

What I think is that Trump is like this Presidential candidate from XKCD, promising anything that will get him elected. Trump makes slight course changes at every opportunity in order to sell himself more effectively to the audience before him at that moment:
http://xkcd.com/1073/

Trump's flexibility during the sales stage of every deal he has ever made is why he has been divorced, bankrupted, and sued thousands of times. When he is not performing his famous "art of the deal", he falls down while executing his mutually incompatible promises that were made only to close the deal.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, September 5, 2016 10:15 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Thanks for contributing to an intelligent, thoughtful discussion. Not.

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Monday, September 5, 2016 11:48 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Thanks for contributing to an intelligent, thoughtful discussion. Not.

You are always welcome, 1kiki, but it threw you off your game that Trump would promise everyday is Saturday if that would get your vote. What gets an applause, Trump would promise.

I found an article that tries to make sense out of Trump’s immigration policy. The inconsistencies that Trump has thrown in during every speech are giving headaches to people who want to know what would happen if Trump did what he said he would do. Read how Trump’s immigration policies could put Americans out of work:
www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/09/03/how-trumps-immigration-
policies-could-put-americans-out-of-work/

Trump need not care because he won’t be implementing anything. It will be the Republican party. Elderly Trump can just sit back and enjoy his retirement home in the White House and let others do all the real thinking and implementing. As Dick Cheney was the real brains in the White House for Bush, perhaps Mike Pence will be Trump’s brain.

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Tuesday, September 6, 2016 10:51 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Look again. It is USSR/Russia in the "stupid chart". Russia got a divorce from the Soviet Union and changed back to her maiden name.

Boy, was I sleepy when I read that!

Quote:
I’ll grant you that America was the aggressor, but

But what?

Quote:
American and Russian leaders blatantly ignored the limit. China, France and UK did not act so ignorant. Sensibly they stopped building when they had 300 bombs or less.

I don't think that China, France, and the UK were more "sensible". The UK's resources, especially access to uranium, was limited. France joined the club in 1960 and China joined the atom-bomb-test club in 1964, proving that they had the technology but not necessarily the resources to commit to full weapons production.

There is something else about the chart that you might have noticed, which is unflattering to the USA and to Reagan: The USA didn't really get serious about limiting its own nuclear weapons until we had been thoroughly and convincingly overtaken by the USSR. So maybe there was a method to the Soviet madness after all.

Quote:
If they actually understood the calculation, maybe the American and Russian Presidents would follow China’s slightly smarter path and dismantle more of their nuclear arsenals.

Unfortunately, Hillary is committed to a "first strike" policy.

--------------
I think it's time you disabused yourself of that pleasant little fairy tale about our fearless leaders being some sort of surrogate daddy or mommy, laying awake at night thinking about how to protect the kids. HA! In reality, they're thinking about who to sell them to so that they can get a few more shekels in their pockets.

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Tuesday, September 6, 2016 1:48 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Quote:
If they actually understood the calculation, maybe the American and Russian Presidents would follow China’s slightly smarter path and dismantle more of their nuclear arsenals.
Unfortunately, Hillary is committed to a "first strike" policy.

The USA does not need thousands of atom bombs to have a "first strike" policy. North Korea only has eight atom bombs and it also has a "first strike" policy. Trump also has a "first strike" policy. He would say his policy is very different from Hillary's, but that is not what his words say, but then again he often says that what he said is not what he meant, if you know what he means:

"9 Terrifying Things Donald Trump Has Publicly Said About Nuclear Weapons"
(videos of Trump included)
https://thinkprogress.org/9-terrifying-things-donald-trump-has-publicl
y-said-about-nuclear-weapons-99f6290bc32a#.l2y65dcsq

“If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit.”
-- Donald Trump quoting W.C. Fields

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Tuesday, September 6, 2016 10:50 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

You are always welcome, 1kiki, but it threw you off your game that Trump would promise everyday is Saturday if that would get your vote.

Is this relevant to anything I brought up, or to the specific question you asked me, which I answered?

In case you need a refresher:

second: How do you imagine that "demand" would work?
kiki: By withdrawing your support. As I've explained before - more than once - the only way Hillary will change course is if she sees her poll numbers slipping.

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Tuesday, September 6, 2016 10:56 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

The USA does not need thousands of atom bombs to have a "first strike" policy.

It needs thousands of nuclear weapons to assure any potential opponent that even if we lost 95% of our missiles, we would obliterate the other country no matter what. It's about winning by having ashed more square inches of the other country than they have ashed of ours. Not that there'll be anyone left to verify that statistic.

That's what "first strike" is about, hon. That's what Hillary's about.

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Wednesday, September 7, 2016 6:12 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
The USA does not need thousands of atom bombs to have a "first strike" policy. North Korea only has eight atom bombs and it also has a "first strike" policy.-SEXOND

There is a difference between the calculations of MUTUAL assured destruction (MAD) and first strike.

MUTUAL assured destruction depends on a formal kind of calculation which requires that each side have sufficient excess of well-protected nuclear weapons to assure that "the other side" would be directly obliterated even if one side was subject to a a "first strike" attack (which BTW would target enemy missiles first).

Quote:
Trump also has a "first strike" policy. He would say his policy is very different from Hillary's, but that is not what his words say, but then again he often says that what he said is not what he meant, if you know what he means:

"9 Terrifying Things Donald Trump Has Publicly Said About Nuclear Weapons"
(videos of Trump included)
https://thinkprogress.org/9-terrifying-things-donald-trump-has-publicl
y-said-about-nuclear-weapons-99f6290bc32a#.l2y65dcsq

The very first thing that your article claims, was what I was objecting to here http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60720

Quote:
On Wednesday, MSNBC’s Joe Scarborough passed on an intriguing piece of gossip: Donald Trump, speaking with a “foreign policy expert,” repeatedly asked “why can’t we use nuclear weapons.”

Scarborough’s claim was thinly sourced. He didn’t reveal the identity of the expert advising Trump or even where he learned the information. Information attributed to anonymous sources is inherently suspect.

Except, of course, when you want to repeat it.

I repeat what I said in the "Never" thread: I find Trump's statements on nuclear weapons less objectionable Hillary's.

I saw NOTHING in Trump's statements that he was a proponent of "first strike". If that's your interpretation, please point out to me where he said so.

If you want to discuss each of Trump's statements in detail, I'm prepared for that too.

--------------
I think it's time you disabused yourself of that pleasant little fairy tale about our fearless leaders being some sort of surrogate daddy or mommy, laying awake at night thinking about how to protect the kids. HA! In reality, they're thinking about who to sell them to so that they can get a few more shekels in their pockets.

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Wednesday, September 7, 2016 8:34 AM