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Originally posted by THGRRI:
SECOND, KPO and G:

Anand Giridharadas just gave a speech at TED TALKS that is going to be available Tuesday the 16th. It is an apology to many Americans who feel left behind. If I can when it airs I will post a link. I am giving a link to Morning Joe so you can see the importance of what he says. His segment is titled " If Trump loses, what happens to his message?"

Finally we hear the topic start to turn away from a movement based on racism, to a topic giving voice to the concerns of the middle class.

http://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe

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In the Trump thread there was this:

Anand Giridharadas just gave a speech at TED TALKS that is going to be available Tuesday the 16th. It is an apology to many Americans who feel left behind. If I can when it airs I will post a link. I am giving a link to Morning Joe so you can see the importance of what he says. His segment is titled " If Trump loses, what happens to his message?"

Finally we hear the topic start to turn away from a movement based on racism, to a topic giving voice to the concerns of the middle class.

http://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe


I want to expand on this topic with my own thoughts, but let me start with Brexit.
Yes, this is a long-winded rant. If you aren't interested, buh-bye!! Go haunt other threads and leave this one in peace. :p

At the shallowest level I find the yes vote for Brexit to be as monumentally stupid as the rise of Drumph in the role of "Politician." (WTF?) But in the days following that Brexit vote I read the news and looked a little deeper, which gave me an empathy for Brexit and Drumph that I hadn't expected.

OK, first let's address the racist component of Brexit, the fear of immigrants. This is inexcusable and disgusting, just like Drumph's blatant racism. I do not need to investigate this side of things. It's clear enough to me how wrong it is.

(Except I must note that it is soooo ironic how Britain colonized the world for centuries but goes all drama queen freaky when people try, in a way that is orders of magnitude less obtrusive and less, for lack of a better word, dickish, to do the reverse. Britain took over the highest levels of authority in foreign lands, crushing and mangling societies around the globe. In modern times, foreign people are trying to join the most "common" levels of British society, to support the existing structure and strengthen it rather than taking it over. Some of these Brexit morons have the nerve to cry foul, to get all miss-ish about being "invaded" by foreigners who want nothing more than a day job and a place to raise their families.

*facepalm*
*smh*)
Where I look deeper is in all that talk about the impending crash of the financial markets in London and how much damage it will do. There is such panic about what would happen when the banks and markets of London lose their easy access to the Continent. Oh no!

You know what? I bet that a bunch of the people who voted for Brexit (apart from aforementioned racist assholes) aren't a part of the scheme of making money off of just having money. They don't give a shit if the London markets crash.

And why should they?

This all comes down to the ever increasing separation of classes, as does the Drumph phenomenon. Republicans, and to a lesser but not inconsequential degree Democrats, have for several decades acted in the interest of the bankers and the investors and the corporations. And themselves, of course. Our political and law-making system is corrupt at the most basic level. It does not act to serve the welfare of the People. Almost everyone knows it, even if they can't quite define it or they lay the blame differently. The powers that be exist to protect that monetary system of London and Wall Street. Anything else it does is just trying to keep the Plebs happy enough that it can retain power.

People react to this stark and ever growing imbalance differently. A lot of people just want to burn the fucking system down. Brexit might do it. President Drumph certainly would, though not in the neat way that these dumbass Drumph supporters think. He would burn it down because he's an incompetent moron with a serious personality disorder.

We who see clearly how insane Drumph is -- and yes, I am not exaggerating and I am not being sarcastic; it is demonstrably true that Drumph has serious mental health problems -- like to blame him for this madness. Or we blame the short sightedness of those who are dumb enough to support him. Or we blame the misguided policies of the Republicans who have done nothing but obstruct. (Actually, a LOT of the blame goes to that last one IMHO.)

But the problem is far deeper and more systemic, therefore harder to solve. The problem is the class warfare of "trickle-down" that can be easily traced back to shifting political winds decades ago. I won't go into this now - post long enough! - but I hold the Clintons partly responsible. This is why I would of been horrified by Hilary's rise to the presidency if there was any other reasonable candidate to stand against her. There were NONE. Not even Bernie. Sorry bern-bots. I am so very glad his voice was out there, but I would never have him be president. He isn't up to it, which became clear late in his candidacy.

Brexit showed that a majority of Brits (well, a solid number plus the racist assholes) don't care if the London markets crash. They would prefer the melt-down, so that economics and government just might start focusing on something other than the big money. The "Little People" want businesses to succeed by being useful, as in making useful things and providing a living to the local community. Business should invest in infrastructure that lasts rather than gambling on random stocks going up or down so that Daddy Big Bucks can get a bigger yacht.

The money that comes of selling a gadget should not go to the handful of schmoes who had the power to lobby the politicians to bend the rules. It should be distributed to the People who actually designed and built the gadget. That money would then get circulated back into the economy, rather than hidden away in offshore accounts and yachts and nose- and boob-jobs for the new trophy wife. Money going back into the system is healthy for everyone. But that is not how our world works right now.

My point: if we just point fingers at Drumph and his supporters, we are missing the whole heart of the problem. Inequality. The government not serving the good of the People. All the plebs of the world know that the system is broken, even if they don't know who to blame and how to fix it. That is why they turn to Drumph. That is why they turn to Brexit. That is why the most weak-minded kowtow to authority figures like Putin.

I am not suggesting I have an answer, just a rough idea of the right direction.

1. An educated public. Ironically, Drumph might help with this, since he excited an emotional reaction for months but in the past few weeks showed himself to be such an obvious trainwreck that he is making people question their initial reactions to him. (See: Reddit thread about what made former Drumph supporters change their minds. https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/4xe2dx/former_trump_suppor
ters_of_reddit_what_was_the/)

2. The Supreme Court. Get money out of politics. End the election fraud of voter ID laws that aim to do nothing but suppress votes. End gerrymandering by both parties. Here is where I am super grateful to Bernie for getting the right ideas into the platform.

3. Kittens. We need more kittens. I have a kitten in my lap right now. This makes everything better.

4. Income and wealth equality. I don't know how this can happen, but it absolutely has to. Not because it's "fair", and not because I want to make more money for myself. (I actually make more than I need right now, so I'm all good.) Inequality has to change because it is *unhealthy* for society as a whole. It has led to Brexit and Drumph. It is rotting America, and many other countries besides.

Believe me, I could go on, and if this thread continues I will. But I guess that will be enough for now. :)

Addendum to sig/kik: "Ma'am, trying to having a conversation with you would be like trying to argue with a dining room table, I have no interest in doing it."

The other regular posters can engage with you as they see fit. I have plenty of popcorn, I'll follow along and enjoy mightily. I may even step in to mock you now and then if your presence in this thread is what it has been in others lately. But if you continue to be incapable of dispassionate logic and reasonable discussion, falling back to name-calling and whinging when others don't agree with you, I have no interest.

Um, other than the infinitely amusing fact that you obviously fancy yourselves intellectuals (given the way you talk down to other posters) and yet...

you

support

Drumph!!!!


That will never not be funny.

Yours in earnest,
mal5prez

(Really sig? You thought "mal5prez" was a burn? Get thee back on thy meds! You've lost it girl LOL!)

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Originally posted by second:
"The bitterness—the “primal scorn”—that Donald Trump has tapped into among white Americans in struggling areas is aimed not just at those of foreign extraction. It is directed toward fellow countrymen who have become foreigners of a different sort, looking down on the natives, if they bother to look at all."

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Originally posted by G:
It is unfathomable how they can consider themselves many things - like passionate environmentalists - and yet support 'Rump. I suppose they will dodge and say, "we don't support Trump! We're just actively NOT supporting Hillary!" At this point whatever.

Stop me if you've heard this one: As Snigs and Kikstand are now part of FFF Team Trump, it puts them shoulder to shoulder with JSF and .... wait for it... Auraptor. Gah! The laughs will never end!

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
We agree 100%, except on Trump and immigration. And Bernie. I don't support Trump because I think he will... or even can ... solve our problems. I support Trump because he has at least IDENTIFIED the problems correctly.

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Originally posted by Brenda:

That is a most beautiful kitty. I miss kittens.

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It all starts with a Wahhabi-Zionist lovefest.

The Saudi Foreign Ministry was forced to go on a non-denial denial overdrive about a visit to Israel on July 22 by a delegation led by retired Gen. Anwar Eshki.

Eshki happens to be close to Saudi intel superstar and onetime close Osama bin Laden pal Prince Turki bin Faisal, who recently met in the open with former Israel Defense Forces (IDF) generals Yaakov Amidror and Amos Yadlin.

While in Israel, Eshki met with Foreign Ministry Director-General Dore Gold, and Maj. Gen. Yoav Mordechai, the top IDF honcho in the West Bank.

There’s absolutely no way the House of Saud would not have given a green light for such a visit – and such high-level meetings. By the way, the Interior Ministry in Saudi Arabia bans all travel to Israel – as well as Iran and Iraq.

So what’s the big deal? The Israelis spun it as the Saudis – fronting for the Arab League — offering a normalization of ties with the Arab world without Israel abdicating from anything on the Palestinian front. The only thing Tel Aviv would have to do, much later, is to adopt the 2002, Saudi-proposed Arab peace initiative.

With the execution rate in Saudi Arabia soaring to record highs this year, the government has reportedly beheaded five foreigners convicted of murder and robbery.
© Flickr/ Yasser Abusen
Survey Says: Saudis Consider Iran a Greater Threat Than Israel, ISIL
That’s nonsense. For starters, the ultra right-wing Zionists in power in Tel Aviv will never accept reverting to the pre-1967 borders and recognizing the state of Palestine. What was “discussed” was a non-deal, even as Tel Aviv gloats, “important Arab states are willing to openly embrace us even though we have not given up one inch of the West Bank and even as we continue to control Al-Aqsa Mosque.”

If the Arab League would ever embark in such a blatant non-deal, forever throwing the Palestinians under myriad bulldozers, chances are oligarchies/petromonarchies all across the spectrum should start booking that one-way ticket to London.

That Moscow-Tehran-Ankara alliance

After the fatal terrorist shootings at an historic black church in South Carolina, President Barack Obama again cited lax gun laws as contributing to this type of mass violence.
© AP Photo/ Susan Walsh
Knock Knock Knocking on Russia’s Door: Major US Allies Turn Away From Washington on Syria
So what did they actually talk about? Predictably, the imminent prospect of the Full Spectrum Dominatrix finally taking over the White House.

Both Bibi Netanyahu in Tel Aviv and de facto House of Saud ruler and Prince of War Mohammad bin Salman in Riyadh have been reduced, under the Obama administration, to the status of proverbial, euphemistic “estranged allies”. Between them, they are de facto allies – even as they cannot admit it to the Arab street. Both are dead sure, under the Queen of War, there will be – what else – war. The question is against whom.

Informed speculation points towards the Saudi/Israeli common enemy, Iran. That’s complicated. The joint Saudi/Israeli strategy across the Middle East is indeed in tatters. Tehran has not been trapped in a quagmire neither in Syria nor in Iraq. ISIS/ISIL/Daesh and assorted “moderate rebels” – covertly supported by the Saudi/Israeli axis — are on the run, even if they insist they are not “al-Qaeda” anymore. Prince of War bin Salman is entrapped himself in an unwinnable war on Yemen.

And then there’s the spectacular post-coup pivot by Sultan Erdogan in Turkey – for all practical purposes abandoning those elaborate no-fly-zone dreams of annexing a post-Assad Syria to his neo-Ottoman set up.

The House of Saud is livid as Turkish diplomats have started to spread this blockbuster news: Erdogan has proposed to Iran’s Rouhani an all-embracing alliance with President Putin to finally solve the Middle East riddle.

Turkey Coup With T Shirt
© AP Photo/ Emrah Gurel
Shadows of UAE, Riyadh Emerge Behind Failed Coup in Turkey
Whatever erratic Erdogan’s agenda may be, a possible ice-breaking new deal between Moscow and Ankara will be discussed de facto in the upcoming Putin-Erdogan face-to-face meeting. All geopolitical signs at this stage point – albeit tentatively – towards a revived Russia/Iran/Turkey alliance, even as a horrified House of Saud is going no holds barred to gain Moscow’s trust by offering “untold wealth” and privileged access to the GCC market.

As confirmed by a top Western intel source, “the Saudis are definitely keeping all contacts open with the Kremlin. The Saudi King is in Tangiers now and has met Russian envoys there. They mean what they say. But Putin will not abandon Assad. There has to be a compromise. Both need it.”

President Putin is in a privileged spot. Even without accepting the Saudi offer – which is just a promise, with no ironclad guarantees – Russia holds the best cards, as in a quite problematic but ultimately feasible Moscow-Tehran-Ankara alliance that is all about Eurasian integration (and a future seat for Turkey, alongside Iran, in the Shanghai Cooperation Organization, SCO.)

A Saudi-Moscow alliance for its part would inevitably lead a Queen of War administration towards – what else — regime change in Riyadh disguised as R2P; “responsibility to protect” the Saudi populace. One should expect Hillary crony Samantha Power to vehemently defend it at the UN.

It’s all about The Three Harpies

Republican U.S. presidential candidate Donald Trump
© REUTERS/ Jonathan Ernst
Hillary Clinton Behind $400Mln Ransom to Iran for Release of 4 Citizens - Trump
Yet considering the Queen of War’s instincts, all signs do point towards Iran.

The manual/blueprint/road map for Hillary’s wars is arguably here, in this very dangerous intersection between US neocons and neoliberalcons. The CNAS think tank is led by one-third (Michele Flournoy) of what I have dubbed The Three Harpies; Hillary Clinton, Flournoy and – the most terrifying words in the English language – Secretary of State Victoria Nuland, the possible lethal trio in charge of foreign policy under a Clinton Three administration.

This is in fact PNAC (the Project for a New American Century) on steroids, with echoes of the warlike 1992 US Defense Planning Guidance disguised under the soothing rhetoric of benevolent hegemony and “rules-based international order”. If the Trump campaign managed to restrain his motormouth and/or motortweet instincts and focus on what this warmongering opus means for the US and the world at large they would strike a chord with millions of undecided US voters.

For all her bluster, and that will be elevated to unheard-of hysterical levels, the Full Spectrum Dominatrix won’t be foolish enough to launch a war – which will inevitably be nuclear – against either Russia (Baltics as a pretext) or China (South China Sea as a pretext), the Pentagon’s top two “existential threats”.

In Syria, on the other hand, by January 2017 al-Qaeda/not al-Qaeda goons formerly known as “moderate rebels” will be mostly six feet under.

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan (File)
© AFP 2016/ STR / TURKISH PRESIDENTIAL PRESS OFFICE
Erdogan Wants to 'Smash NATO Secret Army' Allegedly Involved in Attempted Coup
Erdogan may be making NATO’s life in Turkey unbearable. As the Queen of War is in AIPAC’s pocket, and considering the Clinton Foundation’s by now legendary cozy ties with the House of Saud, the war target would have to be the Saudi/Israeli preferred target, on top of it pro-Damascus and in close touch with both Ankara and Moscow: Iran.

But how to pull it off? One avenue, already being explored, is to bomb by all means — and not figuratively — the Iran nuclear deal. A concerted campaign in US mainstream media is already burying the deal; and even Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khamenei – as reported in the US – is on the record saying Washington cannot be trusted; ‘‘They tell us ‘Let’s talk about regional issues, too.’ But the experience of the nuclear deal suggests this is deadly poison and in no way can the Americans be trusted.’’

So expect from Team Clinton the proverbial media barrage of dodgy spin, baseless accusations and the occasional, perfectly positioned false flag to lure Tehran intro a trap, like, for instance, in neoliberalcon wishful thinking, Iran reviving its nuclear program. Of course this won’t happen, but a Hellfire barrage of disinformation will be used by the powerful anti-Iran lobby in the US Congress to sort of make it happen, even as an illusion.

And all this while Iran, among other development matters, is busy planning a new transportation corridor from the Persian Gulf to the Black Sea, connecting to Armenia, Georgia and Bulgaria, and positioning the nation as a key trade hub connecting the Arab world in the south and west; Central Asia in the north; and Afghanistan and Pakistan in the east, all the way to Europe. Once again, Eurasian integration on the move.

Tehran has myriad reasons to be on red alert if the Full Spectrum Dominatrix gets her hands on the nuclear codes (how’s that not scarier than Trump?) She will act as a surefire faithful servant of the Saudi/Israeli alliance. The road map is ready. And neocons and neoliberalcons alike can hardly contain their excitement at seeing in action “a force that can flex across several different mission sets and prevail.”

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Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:
Wow thanks for the rationality sig-kik! It will come as no surprise that I disagree with you both. I hope we can continue to disagree in a reasonable way.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
We agree 100%, except on Trump and immigration. And Bernie. I don't support Trump because I think he will... or even can ... solve our problems. I support Trump because he has at least IDENTIFIED the problems correctly.

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How you get any kind of rational problem-identification out of Trump is a sign of nothing but Hillary-derangement syndrome. Calling her "Saint Hillary" shows your lack of effort to understand those who disagree with you.

Also it is completely mystifying how you think Hillary will bring on Armageddon but Mr. "Why-can't-I-use-nukes?" Drumph won't.

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/290217-scarboro
ugh-trump-asked-about-adviser-about-using-nuclear

Given your focus in other threads, I would guess that you see world peace in Drumph's leadership because it'd be hard for him to push the red button while he's on his knees in front of Putin. Am I right? ;)


Kiki - "anything but Hillary" means Trump. That is the reality at the moment. You clearly think Hillary would be worse than Trump, which makes me question your ability to observe and use logic. It's OK, I know you won't come around to seeing things my way anytime soon. That ship sailed. So here's what I propose...


I have looked for this old post of mine but can't find it. It was in the lame duck period after Obama was first elected, and the right wingers of this site were wailing and gnashing their teeth about the destruction of America to come. My post suggested something like: In 4 years or 8 years when Obama is on his way out and none of these horrible things have happened and the country is ambling along in it's usual ("usual" excluding 2001 and 2007-2008, that is!) not perfect but really A-OK state, will you admit that your doom and gloom is wrong? I'm sure I was talking to folks like RiverLove and Rappy. No response. I'd love to stir up the thread if I could find it!

Anyhow, the same challenge to you two. If Hillary wins and these is no nuclear Armageddon, will you admit you were wrong? If things actually somewhat improve in terms of income equality, personal freedoms (including *not* losing the right to own guns but gaining the right to not be randomly killed by a madman who should never gotten any where close to an assault rifle!), health care costs coming under control, environmental concerns being addressed, and international relations improving, will you fall to your knees and beg forgiveness for having been so completely wrong?

If there is a President Trump and the country survives four years with anything close to status quo, I will bow down to your wisdom. There doesn't even need to be improvement. Just a bare maintainance of the conditions we have now.

Challenge accepted?



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Battle is the Great Redeemer. It is the fiery crucible in which true heroes are forged. The one place where all men truly share the same rank, regardless of what kind of parasitic scum they were going in.
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Let me see: War or Being Nuked to Death. Gee, that's a tough one. Zillions of dollars spent on War machine, or being fried beyond recognition in a matter of seconds. Hmmmmm, tough choice indeed!

Which do you prefer? Me, I'm choosing option A. I'd rather keep my skin on my body, thank you very much.

Trump scares me beyond all logic. He could say, "Fuck it, let's Nuke London. I don't like the way they banished me from ever setting foot on their soil."

It could happen!

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Washington and Moscow repeatedly accuse each other of violating and abrogating these treaties, while planning new and often drastic countermeasures. Russia complains that the United States withdrew from the 1972 Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty in 2002, becoming the first nation since World War II to exit a major arms control agreement. This move was followed by the development and deployment of the US Ballistic Missile Defense System, with elements in several countries in Eastern Europe close to Russia.

Moscow also protests NATO’s eastward expansion, with good reason. Despite the dissolution of the Soviet-era Warsaw Pact in 1991, NATO has increased its membership from 12 nations to 28, and has placed the accession of Ukraine and another former Soviet republic, Georgia, on its agenda. The United States also keeps large nuclear arsenals in several European countries, and NATO has an overwhelming superiority over Russia in conventional weapons...

... Russia denies such charges and complains that Washington has disregarded many of Russia’s concerns in recent negotiations over missile defense. Some of these concerns might be dismissed as artificial, but even in the eyes of such distinguished security experts as Keir Giles and Andrew Monaghan, “viewed from Moscow, the history of US [ballistic missile defense] development is one of inconsistency, unpredictability, and doubtful assurances.”

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On Sunday June 5th, Reuters headlined “Russia Says U.S. Refuses Talks on Missile Defence System”, and reported that, “The United States has refused Russian offers to discuss Washington’s missile defence programme, Russian Deputy Defence Minister Anatoly Antonov was quoted as saying on Sunday, calling the initiative ‘very dangerous’.” ...

[The] theory, of a winnable nuclear war (which in the U.S. seems to be replacing the prior theory, called “M.A.D.” for Mutually Assured Destruction) was first prominently put forth in 2006 in the prestigious U.S. journal Foreign Affairs, headlining “The Rise of Nuclear Primacy” and which advocated for a much bolder more reckless U.S. strategic policy against Russia ...

1962, when the shoe was on the other foot and the U.S. President was concerned about theThe fact that these efforts on the part of the Russian government are via public media instead of via private conversations ... suggests that Mr. Obama, unlike U.S. President John Fitzgerald Kennedy in 1962, refuses to communicate with Russia, now that the U.S. is potentially in the position of the [nuclear] aggressor.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Moscow also protests NATO’s eastward expansion, with good reason. Despite the dissolution of the Soviet-era Warsaw Pact in 1991, NATO has increased its membership from 12 nations to 28, and has placed the accession of Ukraine and another former Soviet republic, Georgia, on its agenda. The United States also keeps large nuclear arsenals in several European countries, and NATO has an overwhelming superiority over Russia in conventional weapons...

... Russia denies such charges and complains that Washington has disregarded many of Russia’s concerns in recent negotiations over missile defense.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
MAL4, this is the irrationality that passes for discussion these days.

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Originally posted by G:
What does concern me a little is seeing the Harpies plant the "nuclear holocaust" seed. I've seen this before from them, where they offer up some dark concern or danger concept so they can blame some later behavior on it, "I told you *blank* was evil!" I feel like it's A) a desperate, weak, obvious attempt to chill any Hillary supporters, and B) an opportunity to blame Hillary later for something Putin might do should he choose to. Here's the real reveal: no one on this planet that is sane (Sorry Donnie! Putin?) believes there's any benefit to a nuclear engagement of any kind. AND DEFINITELY not the US. We have too much to gain from a healthy planet and healthy relations. We're all better off when we all get along. This is known. So called "Hillary's Wars?" First, like she's the only one involved in making decisions - bupkis. Second, we're really calling Ukraine, Libya "wars?"

I think the twins need to brush up on their Hamlet.

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How We Killed the Tea Party

Greedy super PACs drained the movement with endless pleas for money to support “conservative” candidates—while instead using the money to enrich themselves. I should know. I worked for one of them.

What began as an organic, policy-driven grass-roots movement was drained of its vitality and resources by national political action committees that dunned the movement’s true believers endlessly for money to support its candidates and causes. The PACs used that money first to enrich themselves and their vendors and then deployed most of the rest to search for more “prospects.”

...

I was an employee at one of the firms that ran these operations. But nothing that follows is proprietary or gleaned directly from my employment. The evidence of the scheming is all there in the public record, available for anyone willing to look.

...

One active solicitor is the Tea Party Leadership Fund, which received $6.7 million from 2013 to mid-2015, overwhelmingly from small donors. A typical solicitation from the TPLF read: “Your immediate contribution could be the most important financial investment you will make to help return America to greatness.” But, according to an investigation by POLITICO, 87 percent of that “investment” went to overhead; only $910,000 of the $6.7 million raised was used to support political candidates. If the prospect signs a “petition,” typically a solicitation of his or her personal information is recorded and a new screen immediately appears asking for money. Vendors pass the information around in “list swaps” and “revenue shares” ad infinitum.

...

In 2014, the Tea Party Patriots group spent just 10 percent of the $14.4 million it collected actually supporting candidates, with the rest going to consultants and vendors and Martin’s hefty salary of $15,000 per month; in all, she makes an estimated $450,000 a year from her Tea Party-related ventures.

....

POLITICO last year reviewed the activity of 33 conservative PACs for the 2014 cycle. Combined, they raked in $43 million dollars, according to the POLITICO report. Of that, $39.5 million went to overhead including $6 million to entities owned by PAC operators; candidates got $3 million. Another report analyzed 17 conservative PACs from the 2014 midterm. It came up with different numbers than POLITICO, finding that the bottom 10 PACs in terms of the ratio of spending to actual candidate support received $54,318,498 and spent only $3,621,896 supporting candidates.

And who is Constitutional Rights’ treasurer? My old boss Dan Backer. Backer also serves as treasurer to TPLF, and many others. An analysis found 10 conservative PACs whose treasurer was Scott MacKenzie spent 92 percent of the $17.5 million they raised on operating expenses, and less than 1 percent on candidate support.

PACs are not legally obliged to responsibly spend their loot. As former FEC enforcement officer Kenneth Gross stated, “If I have a PAC and want to spend it on a trip to Atlantic City, that’s fine,” provided it’s accurately reported. Unlike nonprofits they are not governed by a board, have no fiduciary duty to their donors and are not subject to IRS audits.

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Here's the real reveal: no one on this planet that is sane (Sorry Donnie! Putin?) believes there's any benefit to a nuclear engagement of any kind. AND DEFINITELY not the US. We have too much to gain from a healthy planet and healthy relations. We're all better off when we all get along

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
I observe that Hillary voted for the Iraq war. And failed to learn ...

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Challenge accepted?

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:


Apparently you don't feel the need to address the USA abrogation of the ABM treaty nor the forward positioning of nuclear missiles on Russia's borders, which puts their nuclear missiles on hair-trigger. Because all of that, apparently, is somehow irrelevant to the potential of nuclear war. I guess you feel confident that Russia will back down forever.

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Originally posted by THGRRI:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:


Apparently you don't feel the need to address the USA abrogation of the ABM treaty nor the forward positioning of nuclear missiles on Russia's borders, which puts their nuclear missiles on hair-trigger. Because all of that, apparently, is somehow irrelevant to the potential of nuclear war. I guess you feel confident that Russia will back down forever.

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Always pushing Russia's agenda. Hey comrade, if you think the rest of us haven't noticed that no one in these threads agrees with you or 1kiki, well we have.

Move on comrade, you get nothing but push back here.

____________________________________________

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Wow, SECOND... er, I mean MAL4 .... you started out normal and then went sideways.

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Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:

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Originally posted by THGRRI:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:


Apparently you don't feel the need to address the USA abrogation of the ABM treaty nor the forward positioning of nuclear missiles on Russia's borders, which puts their nuclear missiles on hair-trigger. Because all of that, apparently, is somehow irrelevant to the potential of nuclear war. I guess you feel confident that Russia will back down forever.

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Always pushing Russia's agenda. Hey comrade, if you think the rest of us haven't noticed that no one in these threads agrees with you or 1kiki, well we have.

Move on comrade, you get nothing but push back here.

____________________________________________

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Even less than that! I was not coy - this thread is for my rant. I said right off - you don't like it, go back to your other threads. sigkik won't be turning this into another HILLARY IS THE DEVIL RUSSIA TOLD ME SO tail chase.

My lord, they are so transparent! And yes, they are so Rappy Lol!

So, a reporter tweeted, regarding the Manafort/Ukraine bombshell, that more is coming later this week....


*-----------------------------------------------------------------*
Battle is the Great Redeemer. It is the fiery crucible in which true heroes are forged. The one place where all men truly share the same rank, regardless of what kind of parasitic scum they were going in.
*-----------------------------------------------------------------*

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Originally posted by THGRRI:

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Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:

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Originally posted by THGRRI:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:


Apparently you don't feel the need to address the USA abrogation of the ABM treaty nor the forward positioning of nuclear missiles on Russia's borders, which puts their nuclear missiles on hair-trigger. Because all of that, apparently, is somehow irrelevant to the potential of nuclear war. I guess you feel confident that Russia will back down forever.

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Always pushing Russia's agenda. Hey comrade, if you think the rest of us haven't noticed that no one in these threads agrees with you or 1kiki, well we have.

Move on comrade, you get nothing but push back here.

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Even less than that! I was not coy - this thread is for my rant. I said right off - you don't like it, go back to your other threads. sigkik won't be turning this into another HILLARY IS THE DEVIL RUSSIA TOLD ME SO tail chase.

My lord, they are so transparent! And yes, they are so Rappy Lol!

So, a reporter tweeted, regarding the Manafort/Ukraine bombshell, that more is coming later this week....


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Battle is the Great Redeemer. It is the fiery crucible in which true heroes are forged. The one place where all men truly share the same rank, regardless of what kind of parasitic scum they were going in.
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I'm sorry, you quoted me so who exactly is your message directed at?

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Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:

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Originally posted by THGRRI:

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Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:

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Originally posted by THGRRI:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:


Apparently you don't feel the need to address the USA abrogation of the ABM treaty nor the forward positioning of nuclear missiles on Russia's borders, which puts their nuclear missiles on hair-trigger. Because all of that, apparently, is somehow irrelevant to the potential of nuclear war. I guess you feel confident that Russia will back down forever.

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Always pushing Russia's agenda. Hey comrade, if you think the rest of us haven't noticed that no one in these threads agrees with you or 1kiki, well we have.

Move on comrade, you get nothing but push back here.

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Even less than that! I was not coy - this thread is for my rant. I said right off - you don't like it, go back to your other threads. sigkik won't be turning this into another HILLARY IS THE DEVIL RUSSIA TOLD ME SO tail chase.

My lord, they are so transparent! And yes, they are so Rappy Lol!

So, a reporter tweeted, regarding the Manafort/Ukraine bombshell, that more is coming later this week....


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Battle is the Great Redeemer. It is the fiery crucible in which true heroes are forged. The one place where all men truly share the same rank, regardless of what kind of parasitic scum they were going in.
*-----------------------------------------------------------------*

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I'm sorry, you quoted me so who exactly is your message directed at?

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Yeah sorry, that was unclear. I meant sigkik will get even less than push back from me, and the rest of my post was to them.



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Battle is the Great Redeemer. It is the fiery crucible in which true heroes are forged. The one place where all men truly share the same rank, regardless of what kind of parasitic scum they were going in.
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Predictably, you ignored the deal. You attempted to take over the thread with your usual nonsense, making yourself the center of attention that you so crave to be.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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Predictably, you ignored the deal. You attempted to take over the thread with your usual nonsense, making yourself the center of attention that you so crave to be.

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If you had focused on the issues ... yanno, paid attention to the facts I brought to the thread, I wouldn't personally be "the center of attention".

Because, trust me, I'm not trying to be the focus of your snark and derision!

I would much rather that attention be focused on the facts at hand: That we would be able to look at some event dispassionately and in common, and discuss on the basis of reason and evidence whether or not it was adequately and honestly portrayed, and what it might mean for our collective future, if anything.

Doesn't that sound like a better alternative than name-calling and whinging?



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I think it's time you disabused yourself of that pleasant little fairy tale about our fearless leaders being some sort of surrogate daddy or mommy, laying awake at night thinking about how to protect the kids. HA! In reality, they're thinking about who to sell them to so that they can get a few more shekels in their pockets.

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And sigkik is too cowardly to agree to the deal to let reality rule.- MAL4

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I've seen what you did in the Russia threads. I've also seen that just before I started this thread you were insulting me in another thread. And now you're trying to be my bud?-MAL4

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Trump’s only hope for turning the ship around is to do exactly what he’s been refusing to do the entire campaign — pivot, and start running a lower-key, more disciplined, less egomaniacal campaign that’s less about his grudges and attention-seeking behavior and more about focus-grouped slams on Clinton.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

I have actually listened to Trumps speeches. Have you?

Only someone who has not actually listened to his speeches would characterize his campaign as you have.

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Kind of like having a thread exiled to Troll Country.

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Originally posted by G:

Kind of like having a thread exiled to Troll Country.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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Kind of like having a thread exiled to Troll Country.

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Haken created this forum for real world events discussion, not as a place for people to gang up on someone and treat them to an endless barrage of name-calling. When he looked at the thread, in HIS estimation is was trolling. So you should take a lesson from that: Don't be a troll.

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Originally posted by G:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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Kind of like having a thread exiled to Troll Country.

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Haken created this forum for real world events discussion, not as a place for people to gang up on someone and treat them to an endless barrage of name-calling.

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Something you and Kiki have done to "THUGR" and "GSTRING" and "KRAPO" - so that's another one of your lies. Should I list all of your insults?

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
When he looked at the thread, in HIS estimation is was trolling. So you should take a lesson from that: Don't be a troll.

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I'm thinking he showed you favor for your years of posting and wanted to be done with you quickly.

RWED used to a wonderful oasis for free speech. That's what made it so unique and so special (along with the posters). Now it's run to daddy when your feelings are hurt or you can't get your way and threaten to do it again.

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Originally posted by G:

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Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:

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Originally posted by G:

Kind of like having a thread exiled to Troll Country.

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Awesome! What thread was this?

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It's a good one, as I said in the thread, might be her spazzed-out Trolling Opus.

I offered an article about ... Russian Trolls, because it is a real thing, and she went bonkers.

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60719

Highlights:

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Wow. Who knew that sig really is a Russian troll.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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Wow. Who knew that sig really is a Russian troll.

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Yup, that's me! A real Manchurian candidate! It was so clever of Putin to put me on this board in 2002, don't you think?

HAHAHAHA!

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