REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

nobody starves due to laziness

POSTED BY: 1KIKI
UPDATED: Sunday, July 17, 2016 18:02
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Sunday, June 26, 2016 10:17 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
So, I think the next order of business is to go through the remaining list of countries suffering from hunger and starvation and see which ones are capitalist. Though I can point out right now that communist-ideology Russia, China (world's most populous nation), Cuba, Vietnam and Venezuela are all absent from the list; while capitalist-ideology India (world's second most populous nation) is on it ie, the citizens of India are suffering from 'serious' hunger and starvation.




Play with yourself for a while 1kiki. At the moment I can't stomach you.

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Sunday, June 26, 2016 10:24 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



So, I think the next order of business is to go through the remaining list of countries suffering from hunger and starvation and see which ones are capitalist. Though I can point out right now that communist-ideology Russia, China (world's most populous nation), Cuba, Vietnam and Venezuela are all absent from the list; while capitalist-ideology India (world's second most populous nation) is on it ie, the citizens of India are suffering from 'serious' hunger and starvation.




Let me just point out that the author left out vital relevant facts in the opinion piece. Doing that is known as cherry-picking. And whether you do that in the news, in discussion, in debate or in opinion, when you distort the facts, you've changed the nature of your communication into propaganda. But WE don't have any of THAT in the US, do we?!

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Sunday, June 26, 2016 11:42 PM

THGRRI



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Sunday, June 26, 2016 11:51 PM

THGRRI


What does Russia give in foreign aid, $629,598,497. As a matter of fact Russia receives about 70 million in aid from the United States each year. So I ask you again 1kiki, what system economical generates the most resources?

Capitalism, communism, whatever

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Monday, June 27, 2016 12:05 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


https://www.quora.com/Which-countries-are-capitalist-socialist-and-com
munist-in-2015

Is NK a communist/ socialist country? "North Korea is a debatable case, as all references to socialist/communism were dropped from its constitution in 1972 and all references to Marxism-Leninism were dropped in 1992."
http://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/command-economy.asp?layout=infini&
amp;v=5C&orig=1&adtest=5C

China, Cuba, North Korea and the former Soviet Union are examples of countries that have command economies.
Iran, Cuba, China and North Korea have command economies.
https://www.reference.com/government-politics/examples-command-economi
es-f91986e3759b8664?qo=contentSimilarQuestions

China, Cuba, North Korea, Laos and Vietnam are the only five remaining communist nations in the world.
https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Command_economy
Countries with command economies include Burma, Cuba, Iran, Liberia, and North Korea. Formerly, the Soviet Union and China were command economies, and are now mixed economies where the government still has a major influence.
http://useconomy.about.com/od/US-Economy-Theory/a/Command-Economy.htm
Here are examples of the most commonly-referenced countries with command economies.
Belarus, China, Cuba, Iran, Libya, North Korea, Russia


There are many opinions about which countries have command (also called planned) economies versus capitalist (or market) economies. (Remember, this is about economies, not governments.) Looking over the various lists it's clear you can have a command economy without it necessarily being a communist/ socialist one. (For example, one list said that Saudi Arabia, Qatar and other gulf nations were command economies.) On these lists, Venezuela doesn't show up thought it probably should.
My best summary to date is that China, Vietnam, Laos, Cuba, Venezuela, and perhaps Russia, are at the same time command AND communist economies. Together they account for roughly 1/5 of the global population - of course China is the biggest contributor.
There are 196 officially recognized countries in the world today. Subtracting out the 5 or 6 command/ communist economies leaves roughly 190 capitalist economies, that account for the remaining 4/5 of the global population. Out of those countries, 52, or 27%, have a severe or serious problem with malnutrition and starvation. Doing some really rough statistics*, it's very unlikely that the only command/ communist economies escape malnutrition and starvation by random chance.

Therefore, the presence malnutrition and starvation is linked to capitalist economies; while the absence of malnutrition and starvation is linked to command/ communist economies. (It would be really interesting if some statistician could do a formal analysis of this since I haven't seen this kind of approach before. But I'm not about to, after all, I'm just trying to get a rough idea for my own information, and not write a doctoral thesis.)

The next step might be to look for common mechanisms in each type of economy that accounts for this division. GLOBALLY, there's still enough food production to feed everyone (though that will change). So on a broad scale, malnutrition and starvation comes down to distribution. There's enough food for everybody, but not everyone gets food. I'll need to think about if I want to look at malnutrition and starvation globally since countries are all linked in a global food market, or consider food supply and distribution for each country individually.

Countries with SEVERE (GHI between 50 and 35) hunger situation Rank Country 2014

1 Central African Republic 46.9
2 Chad 46.4
3 Zambia 41.1
4 Timor-Leste 40.7
5 Sierra Leone 38.9
6 Haiti 37.3
7 Madagascar 36.3
8 Afghanistan 35.4

Countries with serious (GHI between 34.9 and 20) hunger situation Rank Country 2014
9 Niger 34.5
10 Yemen 34.2
11 Pakistan 33.9
12 Ethiopia 33.9
13 Djibouti 33.2
14 Nigeria 32.8
15 Angola 32.6
16 Mozambique 32.5
17 Namibia 31.8
18 Burkina Faso 31.8
19 Zimbabwe 30.8
20 Liberia 30.8
21 Tajikistan 30.3
22 Rwanda 30.3
23 Guinea-Bissau 30.3
24 Mali 29.6
25 India 29
26 North Korea 28.8
27 Guinea 28.8
28 Tanzania 28.7
29 Laos 28.5
30 Uganda 27.6
31 Malawi 27.3
32 Bangladesh 27.3
33 Congo 26.6
34 Côte d'Ivoire 26.3
35 Swaziland 26
36 Sri Lanka 25.5
37 Cameroon 24.2
38 Kenya 24
39 Myanmar 23.5
40 Lesotho 23.5
41 Senegal 23.2
42 Botswana 23.1
43 Togo 23
44 Mauritania 22.6
45 Cambodia 22.6
46 Nepal 22.2
47 Iraq 22.2
48 Indonesia 22.1
49 Benin 21.8
50 Gambia 21.5
51 Guatemala 21.1
52 Philippines 20.1


Countries not starving = 1, starving = 0; calculate mean, standard deviation single tail distribution, 3rd standard deviation.




Let me just point out that the author left out vital relevant facts in the opinion piece. Doing that is known as cherry-picking. And whether you do that in the news, in discussion, in debate or in opinion, when you distort the facts, you've changed the nature of your communication into propaganda. But WE don't have any of THAT in the US, do we?!

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Monday, June 27, 2016 8:08 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:

There are 196 officially recognized countries in the world today. Subtracting out the 5 or 6 command/ communist economies leaves roughly 190 capitalist economies, that account for the remaining 4/5 of the global population. Out of those countries, 52, or 27%, have a severe or serious problem with malnutrition and starvation. Doing some really rough statistics*, it's very unlikely that the only command/ communist economies escape malnutrition and starvation by random chance.

Therefore, the presence malnutrition and starvation is linked to capitalist economies; while the absence of malnutrition and starvation is linked to command/ communist economies. (It would be really interesting if some statistician could do a formal analysis of this since I haven't seen this kind of approach before. But I'm not about to, after all, I'm just trying to get a rough idea for my own information, and not write a doctoral thesis.)

The next step might be to look for common mechanisms in each type of economy that accounts for this division. GLOBALLY, there's still enough food production to feed everyone (though that will change). So on a broad scale, malnutrition and starvation comes down to distribution. There's enough food for everybody, but not everyone gets food. I'll need to think about if I want to look at malnutrition and starvation globally since countries are all linked in a global food market, or consider food supply and distribution for each country individually.

You are finally getting to a very sharp point. Capitalism does not solve strangers’ problems for free. Capitalism has no commitment to the Brotherhood of All Mankind. With capitalism, there is no We Are All In This Together. Capitalism is not generous to people who can’t pay.

There will be charitable contributions from the Capitalists, but they won’t be doing whatever it takes to solve hunger unless there is money to be made. Next for me is a quick bait-and-switch from food distribution to GNP. How much money would the Capitalists have to pour into Haiti to bring it up to Denmark standards? The answer is $630 billion per year.

$630 billion every year.

$630 billion indefinitely, until Haitians adjust and start contributing to their own new prosperity.

How did I calculate that? Take the population of Haiti, divide by the pop of Denmark, multiply by the GNP of Denmark minus GNP of Haiti to get a number that is as large as the USA Defense budget of $637 billion.

If would be much cheaper to just to move everyone in Haiti to Denmark. But do you know how Europeans feel about immigration?

Haiti GDP at market prices (current US$)
$8.713 billion 2014
Population 10.71 million 2015
http://data.worldbank.org/country/haiti

Denmark GDP at market prices (current US$)
$342.4 billion 2014
Population 5.660 million 2015
http://data.worldbank.org/country/denmark

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Monday, June 27, 2016 10:34 AM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:

There are 196 officially recognized countries in the world today. Subtracting out the 5 or 6 command/ communist economies leaves roughly 190 capitalist economies, that account for the remaining 4/5 of the global population. Out of those countries, 52, or 27%, have a severe or serious problem with malnutrition and starvation. Doing some really rough statistics*, it's very unlikely that the only command/ communist economies escape malnutrition and starvation by random chance.

Therefore, the presence malnutrition and starvation is linked to capitalist economies; while the absence of malnutrition and starvation is linked to command/ communist economies. (It would be really interesting if some statistician could do a formal analysis of this since I haven't seen this kind of approach before. But I'm not about to, after all, I'm just trying to get a rough idea for my own information, and not write a doctoral thesis.)

The next step might be to look for common mechanisms in each type of economy that accounts for this division. GLOBALLY, there's still enough food production to feed everyone (though that will change). So on a broad scale, malnutrition and starvation comes down to distribution. There's enough food for everybody, but not everyone gets food. I'll need to think about if I want to look at malnutrition and starvation globally since countries are all linked in a global food market, or consider food supply and distribution for each country individually.

You are finally getting to a very sharp point. Capitalism does not solve strangers’ problems for free. Capitalism has no commitment to the Brotherhood of All Mankind. With capitalism, there is no We Are All In This Together. Capitalism is not generous to people who can’t pay.

There will be charitable contributions from the Capitalists, but they won’t be doing whatever it takes to solve hunger unless there is money to be made. Next for me is a quick bait-and-switch from food distribution to GNP. How much money would the Capitalists have to pour into Haiti to bring it up to Denmark standards? The answer is $630 billion per year.

$630 billion every year.

$630 billion indefinitely, until Haitians adjust and start contributing to their own new prosperity.

How did I calculate that? Take the population of Haiti, divide by the pop of Denmark, multiply by the GNP of Denmark minus GNP of Haiti to get a number that is as large as the USA Defense budget of $637 billion.

If would be much cheaper to just to move everyone in Haiti to Denmark. But do you know how Europeans feel about immigration?

Haiti GDP at market prices (current US$)
$8.713 billion 2014
Population 10.71 million 2015
http://data.worldbank.org/country/haiti

Denmark GDP at market prices (current US$)
$342.4 billion 2014
Population 5.660 million 2015
http://data.worldbank.org/country/denmark



Yes SECOND correct and that has to do with fair distribution. Something I have said from the beginning. My other point was to suggest to 1kiki and SIG they should stop promoting systems that don't provide the most resources and instead focus on finding ways to distribute resources in a more equitable fashion. Like global unions.

The fact of the matter is that we all need to do with less. The planet cannot sustain the constant over consumption of its limited resources. But that's for another thread.

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Monday, June 27, 2016 11:26 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:

Yes SECOND correct and that has to do with fair distribution. Something I have said from the beginning. My other point was to suggest to 1kiki and SIG they should stop promoting systems that don't provide the most resources and instead focus on finding ways to distribute resources in a more equitable fashion. Like global unions.

The fact of the matter is that we all need to do with less. The planet cannot sustain the constant over consumption of its limited resources. But that's for another thread.

I think you made many excellent points, but there will not be "global unions" without "major wars", in my opinion. There will be the strongest possible opposition against "ways to distribute resources in a more equitable fashion". I could be wrong. The only way to tell is to run a scientific experiment. Start with one small town and have the mayor give the poorest people preferential treatment. Keep running the experiment with bigger towns and larger preferences to see what happens. Eventually the experiment will involve counties, then states, then nations, then the world.

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Monday, June 27, 2016 11:53 AM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:

Yes SECOND correct and that has to do with fair distribution. Something I have said from the beginning. My other point was to suggest to 1kiki and SIG they should stop promoting systems that don't provide the most resources and instead focus on finding ways to distribute resources in a more equitable fashion. Like global unions.

The fact of the matter is that we all need to do with less. The planet cannot sustain the constant over consumption of its limited resources. But that's for another thread.

I think you made many excellent points, but there will not be "global unions" without "major wars", in my opinion. There will be the strongest possible opposition against "ways to distribute resources in a more equitable fashion". I could be wrong. The only way to tell is to run a scientific experiment. Start with one small town and have the mayor give the poorest people preferential treatment. Keep running the experiment with bigger towns and larger preferences to see what happens. Eventually the experiment will involve counties, then states, then nations, then the world.



No I don't think so. I think all we need is for employees to have the right to bargain. I think all countries have to be onboard. No communism but a universal rule of law.

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Monday, June 27, 2016 12:23 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:

No I don't think so. I think all we need is for employees to have the right to bargain. I think all countries have to be onboard. No communism but a universal rule of law.

All aboard, all countries! I'd like to be the train conductor who calls that out just before the train engineer of the "Universal Rule of Law" starts the locomotive. I think nations would only get on that train if you were pointing a gun at them, ready to pull the trigger. You might have to shoot some of the smaller nations in order to convince the larger ones that you mean what you say.

To give an example: there are two countries sharing the Island of Hispaniola. Both have about the same population, but one is 7 times richer than the other. Without being continuously forced, how likely is it that these countries would share food, laws and money? Extremely unlikely I think.

Dominican Republic GDP at market prices (current US$)
$64.14 billion 2014
Population 10.53 million 2015
www.worldbank.org/en/country/dominicanrepublic

Haiti GDP at market prices (current US$)
$8.713 billion 2014
Population 10.71 million 2015
www.worldbank.org/en/country/haiti

Guns, books, or doctors? Conflict and public spending in Haiti : lessons from cross-country evidence
http://documents.worldbank.org/curated/en/2016/05/26396742/guns-books-
or-doctors-conflict-public-spending-haiti-lessons-cross-country-evidence

Abstract

Haiti's economic development has been held back by a history of civil conflict and violence. With donor assistance declining from its exceptional levels following the 2010 earthquake, and concessional financing growing scarce, Haiti must learn to live with tighter budget constraints. At the same time, the United Nations forces that have provided security in the past decade are scaling down. Against this backdrop, this paper explores the conditions under which public spending can minimize violent conflict, and draws possible lessons for Haiti. Drawing on an empirical analysis of 148 countries over the period 1960-2009, simulations for Haiti suggest that increases in military spending would be associated with a higher risk of conflict, an observation in line with Haiti's own history. Greater welfare expenditure (education, health, and social assistance), by contrast, would be associated with lower risk of conflict.

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Monday, June 27, 2016 6:29 PM

THGRRI



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Monday, June 27, 2016 6:29 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:

No I don't think so. I think all we need is for employees to have the right to bargain. I think all countries have to be onboard. No communism but a universal rule of law.

All aboard, all countries! I'd like to be the train conductor who calls that out just before the train engineer of the "Universal Rule of Law" starts the locomotive. I think nations would only get on that train if you were pointing a gun at them, ready to pull the trigger. You might have to shoot some of the smaller nations in order to convince the larger ones that you mean what you say.

To give an example: there are two countries sharing the Island of Hispaniola. Both have about the same population, but one is 7 times richer than the other. Without being continuously forced, how likely is it that these countries would share food, laws and money? Extremely unlikely I think.

Dominican Republic GDP at market prices (current US$)
$64.14 billion 2014
Population 10.53 million 2015
www.worldbank.org/en/country/dominicanrepublic

Haiti GDP at market prices (current US$)
$8.713 billion 2014
Population 10.71 million 2015
www.worldbank.org/en/country/haiti

Guns, books, or doctors? Conflict and public spending in Haiti : lessons from cross-country evidence
http://documents.worldbank.org/curated/en/2016/05/26396742/guns-books-
or-doctors-conflict-public-spending-haiti-lessons-cross-country-evidence

Abstract

Haiti's economic development has been held back by a history of civil conflict and violence. With donor assistance declining from its exceptional levels following the 2010 earthquake, and concessional financing growing scarce, Haiti must learn to live with tighter budget constraints. At the same time, the United Nations forces that have provided security in the past decade are scaling down. Against this backdrop, this paper explores the conditions under which public spending can minimize violent conflict, and draws possible lessons for Haiti. Drawing on an empirical analysis of 148 countries over the period 1960-2009, simulations for Haiti suggest that increases in military spending would be associated with a higher risk of conflict, an observation in line with Haiti's own history. Greater welfare expenditure (education, health, and social assistance), by contrast, would be associated with lower risk of conflict.



It's called globalization. It's a good idea and it was working to an extent. The problem was our leaders were stupid and let the greedy win out. Companies chose slave labor over fair wages. We needed smart trade instead of free trade so we could move more slowly and create less victims. That is what the Brexit vote was about. That's why Donald Trump has had such success.

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Monday, June 27, 2016 6:42 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"My other point was to suggest to 1kiki and SIG they should stop promoting systems that don't provide the most resources and instead focus on finding ways to distribute resources in a more equitable fashion."

"... and instead focus on finding ways to distribute resources in a more equitable fashion ..." You mean ways like capitalism - that underfeeds and starves 27% of the countries that practice it? Or ways like communism - that feed everyone?

Those are my choices in the real world.




Let me just point out that the author left out vital relevant facts in the opinion piece. Doing that is known as cherry-picking. And whether you do that in the news, in discussion, in debate or in opinion, when you distort the facts, you've changed the nature of your communication into propaganda. But WE don't have any of THAT in the US, do we?!

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Monday, June 27, 2016 8:15 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
"My other point was to suggest to 1kiki and SIG they should stop promoting systems that don't provide the most resources and instead focus on finding ways to distribute resources in a more equitable fashion."

"... and instead focus on finding ways to distribute resources in a more equitable fashion ..." You mean ways like capitalism - that underfeeds and starves 27% of the countries that practice it? Or ways like communism - that feed everyone?

Those are my choices in the real world.




Love you pointing out to all again that you prefer communism (Russia) over America. It's really admirable how you deny being Russian and yet always come down as supporting it philosophies.

So, how are things going for you comrade? Still disappointed you can't go home?

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Monday, June 27, 2016 9:57 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Did you happen to notice that China is the largest communist economy on the planet, representing 1/5 of the entirety of humanity?

Are you Russian? Is that why you can't stop posting about Russia? And, let me point out - you forgot to mention your very special someone.




Let me just point out that the author left out vital relevant facts in the opinion piece. Doing that is known as cherry-picking. And whether you do that in the news, in discussion, in debate or in opinion, when you distort the facts, you've changed the nature of your communication into propaganda. But WE don't have any of THAT in the US, do we?!

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Monday, June 27, 2016 10:05 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


interestingly enough, the residents of DR were spared the fate of being another Haiti

by a dictator who forbade cutting down the forests.

Quote:

Originally posted by second:

To give an example: there are two countries sharing the Island of Hispaniola. Both have about the same population, but one is 7 times richer than the other. Without being continuously forced, how likely is it that these countries would share food, laws and money? Extremely unlikely I think.

Dominican Republic GDP at market prices (current US$)
$64.14 billion 2014
Population 10.53 million 2015
www.worldbank.org/en/country/dominicanrepublic

Haiti GDP at market prices (current US$)
$8.713 billion 2014
Population 10.71 million 2015
www.worldbank.org/en/country/haiti






Let me just point out that the author left out vital relevant facts in the opinion piece. Doing that is known as cherry-picking. And whether you do that in the news, in discussion, in debate or in opinion, when you distort the facts, you've changed the nature of your communication into propaganda. But WE don't have any of THAT in the US, do we?!

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Monday, June 27, 2016 10:11 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Did you happen to notice that China is the largest communist economy on the planet, representing 1/5 of the entirety of humanity?

Are you Russian? Is that why you can't stop posting about Russia? And, let me point out - you forgot to mention your very special someone.



Here we go again. I have already been through this with you. China was a failing country until it started allowing private ownership of companies. And if it wasn't for free trade instead of smart trade. Two thirds of American manufacturing jobs would not have left this country to go there. Right now because of their business practices, there debts, and continued bailing out of failing business, they are going to experience what Japan experienced when it was going under. Or should I say they saw no growth for two decades.

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Monday, June 27, 2016 10:13 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"The only way to tell is to run a scientific experiment. Start with one small town and have the mayor give the poorest people preferential treatment."

Your imagination fails you. Start with a small, like-minded community or country, where people are brought up as part of a society of mutuality. Iceland might work. Have them decide their course as a society, meeting their ethics and directed towards goals they themselves aspire to; aimed at the common good and a society of humanity. See where it goes.




Let me just point out that the author left out vital relevant facts in the opinion piece. Doing that is known as cherry-picking. And whether you do that in the news, in discussion, in debate or in opinion, when you distort the facts, you've changed the nature of your communication into propaganda. But WE don't have any of THAT in the US, do we?!

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Monday, June 27, 2016 10:17 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


China was a failing country for millennia, with a long and storied history of repeated mass starvation by the millions, while the ruling elite lived in luxury. Until ... communism came along and gave everyone 20 more years of precious life through the simple act of making sure everyone was fed.




Let me just point out that the author left out vital relevant facts in the opinion piece. Doing that is known as cherry-picking. And whether you do that in the news, in discussion, in debate or in opinion, when you distort the facts, you've changed the nature of your communication into propaganda. But WE don't have any of THAT in the US, do we?!

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Monday, June 27, 2016 10:24 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



THIS is what death from starvation looks like:

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Monday, June 27, 2016 10:44 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
China was a failing country for millennia, with a long and storied history of repeated mass starvation by the millions, while the ruling elite lived in luxury. Until ... communism came along and gave everyone 20 more years of precious life through the simple act of making sure everyone was fed.

]



You'll never understand the satisfaction I get from you knowing what I want is slowly and in some cases swiftly encroaching on what you want. I.E. the Soviet Union is now only Russia and its satellite countries cannot make friends with the west fast enough to suit them. As you said. For twenty years China was a communist state. What you want. Well now comrade troll it is slowly becoming what I want. Right now the people of china have seen great advancements due to trade and slave labor jobs that have created somewhat of a middleclass. That will not last because the people will want more. They have 900 million people who still have nothing.

I would add as companies start to use encrypted passwords instead of the shit they use now, the Chinese will no longer be able to use stolen technology to advance themselves. They will be stuck having to create new products themselves. Something they appear not to have a knack for.


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Monday, June 27, 2016 10:52 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Then you are for people starving to death. You'll accept anything, anything! even 7.7 MILLION people starving to death in capitalist economies every year, rather than disturb your ideology.

Your measure of capitalist 'success' - 27% of countries with with severe or serious malnutrition AND STARVATION - is insane.


You are insane.


THIS is what death from starvation looks like:





Let me just point out that the author left out vital relevant facts in the opinion piece. Doing that is known as cherry-picking. And whether you do that in the news, in discussion, in debate or in opinion, when you distort the facts, you've changed the nature of your communication into propaganda. But WE don't have any of THAT in the US, do we?!

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Monday, June 27, 2016 10:58 PM

THGRRI


You know it does not surprise me or anyone else here in the least, that you and SIG suggest to the rest of us that only you understand world issues and the pain and suffering of others. Well comrade troll, that gets undercut by the fact that the two of you constantly support the countries that inflict the most atrocities on its people while dening them their given rights as human beings.




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Monday, June 27, 2016 11:12 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


You find starvation acceptable. As long as no one touches profits.




Let me just point out that the author left out vital relevant facts in the opinion piece. Doing that is known as cherry-picking. And whether you do that in the news, in discussion, in debate or in opinion, when you distort the facts, you've changed the nature of your communication into propaganda. But WE don't have any of THAT in the US, do we?!

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Monday, June 27, 2016 11:26 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
You find starvation acceptable. As long as no one touches profits.




You're such an ass. You don't have the critical thinking skills to separate what I say and why I say it from your concept of poverty. It's why you're a moron who would rather live where you have no rights and are ruled instead of having a say.

Technology stands a better chance of ending poverty but I see none of that in your posting. Only Western countries bad. That's all it is with you. Western countries bad. Where are the links to TED TALKS where they speak about the different ways they are trying to end poverty? Where, all we hear from you and SIG is Western society bad. You don't want to discuss ending poverty.

Were are the links to people who are coming up with innovative ideas. Where's that discussion? Nope, you just what to bash the West. Where is your criticism of Russia and China for not doing enough? You can post terrible pictures, but you are incapable of creating a discussion that deals with the issue. If you want to help solve poverty stop supporting governments that don't respect the rule of law.

What a clown you are.

http://www.ted.com/talks/gary_haugen_the_hidden_reason_for_poverty_the
_world_needs_to_address_now


http://www.ted.com/talks/bono_the_good_news_on_poverty_yes_there_s_goo
d_news


http://www.ted.com/talks/andrew_youn_3_reasons_why_we_can_win_the_figh
t_against_poverty

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Monday, June 27, 2016 11:55 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"Technology stands a better chance of ending poverty but I see none of that in your posting."

First of all MY METRIC IS MALNUTRITION AND STARVATION - not poverty. Maybe you can figure out what that means. But since I've repeated it more than once, I'm not holding out any hope you'll suddenly find a brain.

Then you failed to grasp the importance of the fact that THERE IS ENOUGH FOOD ON THE PLANET TO FEED EVERYBODY.

Should I repeat that? THERE IS ENOUGH FOOD ON THE PLANET TO FEED EVERYBODY. There IS no technological 'fix' needed to improve the food supply. The problem is distribution, or, if I may quote myself because you didn't grasp it the first time "There's enough food for everybody, but not everyone gets food." The problem is - shall I say this again? DISTRIBUTION.

And as a DISTRIBUTION system, capitalism sucks. Because food doesn't get to people UNLESS THEY CAN AFFORD TO PAY A PRICE THAT CREATES A PROFIT. And if they can't, and they don't have access to their own food supply, they don't get enough to eat. They even starve to death. 750 MILLION PEOPLE ARE MALNOURISHED EVERY YEAR IN CAPITALIST ECONOMIES. 7.7 MILLION PEOPLE STARVE TO DEATH EVERY YEAR IN CAPITALIST ECONOMIES. Despite the fact that there's enough food not only to keep everyone alive, but also guarantee they'll be well-nourished and healthy.


THIS is what death from starvation looks like:





Let me just point out that the author left out vital relevant facts in the opinion piece. Doing that is known as cherry-picking. And whether you do that in the news, in discussion, in debate or in opinion, when you distort the facts, you've changed the nature of your communication into propaganda. But WE don't have any of THAT in the US, do we?!

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Tuesday, June 28, 2016 12:09 AM

THGRRI


Too bad 1kiki. Your mind is locked in hate and you have a need to always point the finger at others. If you are to be saved you must look inward.

Good luck with that.

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Tuesday, June 28, 2016 12:23 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


I look outward and this is what I see:

THIS is what death from starvation looks like:


You seem to think starvation is painless and peaceful. But when your body is dying, you're reduced to a creature that ignores nakedness, ignores the burning sun, ignores biting flies, ignores the sloughing skin, ignores the dried diarrhea crusted on your butt, ignores the dirt and filth you eat from the ground to hold death off by another 5 calories ... ignores everything to expend that small amount of energy left on finding food ... until you become too weak to do even that.

THIS is what death from starvation is.

Not some abstract theory about poverty but immediate starvation that needs immediate food. Food which there is IN PLENTY. But you are less important than profit, which makes you expendable.




nobody starves due to laziness


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Tuesday, June 28, 2016 1:31 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

I look outward and this is what I see:

THIS is what death from starvation looks like:


You seem to think starvation is painless and peaceful. But when your body is dying, you're reduced to a creature that ignores nakedness, ignores the burning sun, ignores biting flies, ignores the sloughing skin, ignores the dried diarrhea crusted on your butt, ignores the dirt and filth you eat from the ground to hold death off by another 5 calories ... ignores everything to expend that small amount of energy left on finding food ... until you become too weak to do even that.

THIS is what death from starvation is.

Not some abstract theory about poverty but immediate starvation that needs immediate food. Food which there is IN PLENTY. But you are less important than profit, which makes you expendable.


Indeed.
And that fact that THUGR would imagine that bringing this up is some sort of exercise in "manipulation" ... I guess he doesn't want to be "manipulated" into confronting consequences. He's so filled with hate, he can't be bothered to notice how painfully children are dying, and that he might even be advocating it.

--------------
I'll tell you what I DON'T like about Trump: I think that he has never confronted either the international banking cartel, nor the CIA-State Dept multi-headed hydra, nor the military-industrial complex. The last person to confront them was JFK (BTW, ALL immigration was illegal under JFK) and look what happened to him.

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Tuesday, June 28, 2016 6:44 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:

It's called globalization. It's a good idea and it was working to an extent. The problem was our leaders were stupid and let the greedy win out. Companies chose slave labor over fair wages. We needed smart trade instead of free trade so we could move more slowly and create less victims. That is what the Brexit vote was about. That's why Donald Trump has had such success.

Had remain won the referendum, the EU would have become hostage to British sabotage. Future British prime ministers would veto any fundamental change, correctly arguing that their people had voted only for the current set-up of the EU. Britain would continue to demand ever more opt-outs and concessions – playing to the fantasy that membership is a British favor to the rest of Europe. The British press and Europhobe politicians would go on portraying the EU in the most lurid, mendacious and derisory terms. The problem with Britain was not that it was critical of the EU. The problem was bad faith and delusional thinking.

Bad faith and delusional thinking is Trump's way. His entire business model is built on bad faith: intentional deceit of others and self-deception. His government would be the same. Check Trump's failed Baja condo resort --
www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-trump-baja-snap-story.html

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Tuesday, June 28, 2016 9:28 AM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:

It's called globalization. It's a good idea and it was working to an extent. The problem was our leaders were stupid and let the greedy win out. Companies chose slave labor over fair wages. We needed smart trade instead of free trade so we could move more slowly and create less victims. That is what the Brexit vote was about. That's why Donald Trump has had such success.

Had remain won the referendum, the EU would have become hostage to British sabotage. Future British prime ministers would veto any fundamental change, correctly arguing that their people had voted only for the current set-up of the EU. Britain would continue to demand ever more opt-outs and concessions – playing to the fantasy that membership is a British favor to the rest of Europe. The British press and Europhobe politicians would go on portraying the EU in the most lurid, mendacious and derisory terms. The problem with Britain was not that it was critical of the EU. The problem was bad faith and delusional thinking.

Bad faith and delusional thinking is Trump's way. His entire business model is built on bad faith: intentional deceit of others and self-deception. His government would be the same. Check Trump's failed Baja condo resort --
www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-trump-baja-snap-story.html



Wow that's a harsh critique second. It's hard to give up ones sovereignty. Britain felt it was subject to a lot of bad decisions made by unelected officials from Brussels.

The EU was created to help France and Germany get together in peace. They had I think 3 wars in 70 years. The only way I think it would work is with all countries giving up their identity, borders and autonomy. Not going to happen. When we add global warming to the mix, all the migration it is starting to cause which will only get worse, we will see Britain's leaving is just the beginning.

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Tuesday, June 28, 2016 10:00 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.




Quote:

It's called globalization. It's a good idea and it was working to an extent. The problem was our leaders were stupid and let the greedy win out. Companies chose slave labor over fair wages. We needed smart trade instead of free trade so we could move more slowly and create less victims. That is what the Brexit vote was about. That's why Donald Trump has had such success.- THUGR

Had remain won the referendum, the EU would have become hostage to British sabotage. Future British prime ministers would veto any fundamental change, correctly arguing that their people had voted only for the current set-up of the EU. Britain would continue to demand ever more opt-outs and concessions – playing to the fantasy that membership is a British favor to the rest of Europe. The British press and Europhobe politicians would go on portraying the EU in the most lurid, mendacious and derisory terms. The problem with Britain was not that it was critical of the EU. The problem was bad faith and delusional thinking.

On whose part? The Eurocrats?

Quote:

Bad faith and delusional thinking is Trump's way. His entire business model is built on bad faith: intentional deceit of others and self-deception. His government would be the same. Check Trump's failed Baja condo resort --
www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-trump-baja-snap-story.html]

Wow that's a harsh critique second. It's hard to give up ones sovereignty. Britain felt it was subject to a lot of bad decisions made by unelected officials from Brussels.

The EU was created to help France and Germany get together in peace. They had I think 3 wars in 70 years. The only way I think it would work is with all countries giving up their identity, borders and autonomy. Not going to happen. When we add global warming to the mix, all the migration it is starting to cause which will only get worse, we will see Britain's leaving is just the beginning.-THUGR

- I'm going to move this to the Brext thread if you don't mind. It doesn't belong here.

COPIED TO http://www.fireflyfans.net/mreply.aspx?q=y&mid=1012876

--------------
I'll tell you what I DON'T like about Trump: I think that he has never confronted either the international banking cartel, nor the CIA-State Dept multi-headed hydra, nor the military-industrial complex. The last person to confront them was JFK (BTW, ALL immigration was illegal under JFK) and look what happened to him.

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Tuesday, June 28, 2016 10:40 AM

THGRRI



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Tuesday, June 28, 2016 10:40 AM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:


Quote:

It's called globalization. It's a good idea and it was working to an extent. The problem was our leaders were stupid and let the greedy win out. Companies chose slave labor over fair wages. We needed smart trade instead of free trade so we could move more slowly and create less victims. That is what the Brexit vote was about. That's why Donald Trump has had such success.- THUGR

Had remain won the referendum, the EU would have become hostage to British sabotage. Future British prime ministers would veto any fundamental change, correctly arguing that their people had voted only for the current set-up of the EU. Britain would continue to demand ever more opt-outs and concessions – playing to the fantasy that membership is a British favor to the rest of Europe. The British press and Europhobe politicians would go on portraying the EU in the most lurid, mendacious and derisory terms. The problem with Britain was not that it was critical of the EU. The problem was bad faith and delusional thinking.

On whose part? The Eurocrats?

Quote:

Bad faith and delusional thinking is Trump's way. His entire business model is built on bad faith: intentional deceit of others and self-deception. His government would be the same. Check Trump's failed Baja condo resort --
www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-trump-baja-snap-story.html]

Wow that's a harsh critique second. It's hard to give up ones sovereignty. Britain felt it was subject to a lot of bad decisions made by unelected officials from Brussels.

The EU was created to help France and Germany get together in peace. They had I think 3 wars in 70 years. The only way I think it would work is with all countries giving up their identity, borders and autonomy. Not going to happen. When we add global warming to the mix, all the migration it is starting to cause which will only get worse, we will see Britain's leaving is just the beginning.-THUGR

- I'm going to move this to the Brext thread if you don't mind. It doesn't belong here.

COPIED TO http://www.fireflyfans.net/mreply.aspx?q=y&mid=1012876




Yeah OK this is nothing but a fucking mess. You quote me and another here as though it is all me. Again it has to be pointed out to you that your bullshit posting is ad hoc ( formed, arranged, or done for a particular purpose only ). The purpose is to deceive. It's just another lie by you. Why, because once again you just can't make the case as to why you are right and not wrong.

Add to that your cut and pasted bushtit of subjective nonsense because you can't formulate your own thoughts and there you have it. More SIG CRAP.

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Tuesday, June 28, 2016 10:45 AM

THGRRI



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Tuesday, June 28, 2016 10:49 AM

THGRRI



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Tuesday, June 28, 2016 11:33 AM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by G:
Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
You find starvation acceptable. As long as no one touches profits.



You're such an ass. You don't have the critical thinking skills to separate what I say and why I say it from your concept of poverty. It's why you're a moron who would rather live where you have no rights and are ruled instead of having a say.

Technology stands a better chance of ending poverty but I see none of that in your posting. Only Western countries bad. That's all it is with you. Western countries bad. Where are the links to TED TALKS where they speak about the different ways they are trying to end poverty? Where, all we hear from you and SIG is Western society bad. You don't want to discuss ending poverty.

Were are the links to people who are coming up with innovative ideas. Where's that discussion? Nope, you just what to bash the West. Where is your criticism of Russia and China for not doing enough? You can post terrible pictures, but you are incapable of creating a discussion that deals with the issue. If you want to help solve poverty stop supporting governments that don't respect the rule of law.

What a clown you are.



You can't have a simple discussion with either of those 2 harpies. It has been proven time and time again. I wonder what Kiki's solution for Hunger would be? Just to whine about it on a forum of less than 20 members? Does she even donate to a food bank? How over weight is she? Does she even come close to practicing what she preaches?

And what about the rest of the world? If capitalism is so much worse than communism (the stupidest argument ever - the "tastes great, less filling" discussion for the pretentious) at feeding people, why are they so shameful and tight and reluctant when it comes to giving? Yanno, actually doing something for others? Props to Australia.

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2010/sep/08/charitable-giving
-country#data


China 147, Russian Federation 138 - have a look, it's embarrassing how many poorer nations give more.

http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm/bay/content.view/cpid/42




It appears to me SIG and 1KIKI suffer from a narcissistic personality disorder. Their narcissism displays itself in their posts as an extreme self-interest and promotion of others. Yet we witness an accompanying undertone actually showing a lack of concern for the needs of others.

In their posts they project a sense of entitlement. Unreasonable expectations of favorable treatment or automatic compliance with their expectations. In other words, you the reader of our posts should accept the truth and wisdom in what we post. You should never challenge what we say or why we say it. They express arrogance and haughty behaviors i.e. the terrible pictures, otherwise known as relative privation. They use statements like always and never which are declarations not observations. They mix lies with truth and large cut and pasted articles because being perceived as brilliant and right is their desired outcome, not the subject at hand.

People who suffer from personality disorders often feel a sense of unresolved anger and a heightened or exaggerated perception that they have been wronged; sound familiar? They display a need to be validated because they feel invalidated, neglected and abused. As we both can attest too G, that describes these two perfectly. Their kind of posting is a passive-aggressive approach to giving Western society a verbal put-down, while maintaining a façade of reasonableness or friendliness. They exhibit distinct patterns of unwarranted or exaggerated criticism directed towards Western society, while the East Russia, gets a free pass. Any sustained or chronic pattern of unwarranted behavior by one towards another such as this is a common narcissistic trait.

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Wednesday, June 29, 2016 12:08 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"Their narcissism displays itself in their posts as an extreme self-interest and promotion of others."

I hope you realize that a narcissist is ALL about ME!! ALL ME!!! EVERY DAY!! ALL DAY!! ALL THE TIME!!!

And 'promotion of others' is 180 degrees and lightspeed away from narcissism.

That sentence was so ludicrous, I stopped reading right there.




Let me just point out that the author left out vital relevant facts in the opinion piece. Doing that is known as cherry-picking. And whether you do that in the news, in discussion, in debate or in opinion, when you distort the facts, you've changed the nature of your communication into propaganda. But WE don't have any of THAT in the US, do we?!

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Wednesday, June 29, 2016 12:27 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


I see THETHREESTOOGES are unmoved by the phenomenal suffering of 7.7 MILLION people STARVING TO DEATH every year, and 750 MILLION people malnourished EVERY YEAR.

Nope, apparently it's too ignorable to even take a pause for it, no matter how briefly, and acknowledge and consider it.

And, what do I intend to PERSONALLY do about starvation? PERSONALLY, there's very little I can do in the face of 7.7 MILLION people STARVING TO DEATH every year in capitalist economies.

It's a well-oiled relentless capitalist Holocaust, where the only thing more remarkable than how ignored it is, is the fact that our perfect little bots assume that it's the best result delivered by our capitalist heaven. Some people, apparently, are so unworthy that even heaven is powerless to reach them. So they must deserve to be in hell. Just like the Jews.

Anyway, I intend to continue on in my attempt to understand how it is that so many people starve when there's plenty of food for everyone. Because the results don't come from magic, or even generic logical scenarios. There are very specific mechanisms repeatedly at work, and very specific counter mechanisms not at work, that result in mass death by starvation, and widespread malnutrition in capitalism.




Let me just point out that the author left out vital relevant facts in the opinion piece. Doing that is known as cherry-picking. And whether you do that in the news, in discussion, in debate or in opinion, when you distort the facts, you've changed the nature of your communication into propaganda. But WE don't have any of THAT in the US, do we?!

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Wednesday, June 29, 2016 7:50 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:

Anyway, I intend to continue on in my attempt to understand how it is that so many people starve when there's plenty of food for everyone. Because the results don't come from magic, or even generic logical scenarios. There are very specific mechanisms repeatedly at work, and very specific counter mechanisms not at work, that result in mass death by starvation, and widespread malnutrition in capitalism.

How many scientists does it take to debunk the myth that we need more food to feed the world? In the past decade, hundreds of scientists and experts have made it clear: Feeding the world is not about increasing how many bushels of grain we can grow, it’s about dirt, democracy, and our diets.

A new report from Friends of the Earth, Farming for the Future, compiles the data and details how we can create a food system that feeds all people, now and into the future.
www.csmonitor.com/Business/The-Bite/2016/0621/To-feed-the-world-do-we-
really-need-to-grow-more-food


Continuing:
Scientists estimate that farmers already produce enough food to feed 10 billion people — far more than the current population of roughly 7.3 billion. Still, at least 800 million go hungry every day and many more are undernourished. Why? Because hunger is not caused by a scarcity in food, it’s caused by a scarcity in democracy and unequal access to land, water, credit, and fair markets.

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Wednesday, June 29, 2016 9:23 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

"Their narcissism displays itself in their posts as an extreme self-interest and promotion of others."- THUGR

I hope you realize that a narcissist is ALL about ME!! ALL ME!!! EVERY DAY!! ALL DAY!! ALL THE TIME!!! And 'promotion of others' is 180 degrees and lightspeed away from narcissism. That sentence was so ludicrous, I stopped reading right there.- KIKI



I just had to repeat this, lest it get lost too quickly.

Quote:

Anyway, I intend to continue on in my attempt to understand how it is that so many people starve when there's plenty of food for everyone. Because the results don't come from magic, or even generic logical scenarios. There are very specific mechanisms repeatedly at work, and very specific counter mechanisms not at work, that result in mass death by starvation, and widespread malnutrition in capitalism.
FWIW I think there are two mechanisms at work ... the first is the relentless concentration of wealth promoted by capitalism, and the second is that SHARING of wealth (a little bit) with corrupt local and national leaders who are willing to use force to keep their share of the pie.

Ultimately, its about the use of both force and propaganda to promote a power structure which does not serve the people.

--------------
I'll tell you what I DON'T like about Trump: I think that he has never confronted either the international banking cartel, nor the CIA-State Dept multi-headed hydra, nor the military-industrial complex. The last person to confront them was JFK (BTW, ALL immigration was illegal under JFK) and look what happened to him.

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Wednesday, June 29, 2016 9:49 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

FWIW I think there are two mechanisms at work ... the first is the relentless concentration of wealth promoted by capitalism, and the second is that SHARING of wealth (a little bit) with corrupt local and national leaders who are willing to use force to keep their share of the pie.

Ultimately, its about the use of both force and propaganda to promote a power structure which does not serve the people.

I think the "two mechanisms at work" you identified are not the only ones. For example:

www.csmonitor.com/Business/The-Bite/2016/0621/Will-a-peanut-giveaway-h
elp-or-hurt-Haitians


Will a peanut giveaway help or hurt Haitians?

Over 60 NGOs disapprove the U.S. Department of Agriculture giving surplus peanuts to food insecure Haitians, claiming the decision will negatively impact peanut farmers in Haiti.

Earlier this year, the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) announced that the agency is shipping surplus American peanuts to help feed 140,000 food insecure schoolchildren in Haiti. According to the U.N. World Food Program (WFP), there are more than 3.6 million food insecure Haitians. The plan, however, is controversial and more than 60 NGOs—including Food First, Grassroots International, and the U.S. Food Sovereignty Alliance—are calling for its cancellation.

Peanut production plays a central role in the Haitian economy and forms a critical foundation of its food sovereignty, according to a letter by aid groups to USDA Secretary Tom Vilsack. The country’s long supply chain serves as a key source of income for more than 500,000 people, most of whom are women. According to Oxfam America and Partners in Health, the donation will flood the Haitian market with foreign crops, disrupting the national production chain and devastating the livelihood of Haitian peanut farmers.

Peanut farmers in Haiti have only recently experienced increased success, aided by efforts from a partnership between the Clinton Foundation—which created the Acceso Peanut Enterprise Corporation—a nonprofit called Meds & Food for Kids, and the University of Georgia. For the past four years, the partnership has helped build a secure depot and drying area for peanuts, conducted farmer training on timely fungicide applications and planting techniques, and provided improved seed varieties and testing for aflatoxin—a fungus that often contaminates peanuts. The efforts have proven fruitful: farmers experienced, on average, a 30 percent increase in income since the intervention. Last January, the U.S. government’s Global Hunger and Food Security Initiative praised the efforts to bolster Haitian peanut production.

There is more if you want to keep reading at www.csmonitor.com/Business/The-Bite/2016/0621/Will-a-peanut-giveaway-h
elp-or-hurt-Haitians

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Wednesday, June 29, 2016 10:21 AM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

"Their narcissism displays itself in their posts as an extreme self-interest and promotion of others."- THUGR

I hope you realize that a narcissist is ALL about ME!! ALL ME!!! EVERY DAY!! ALL DAY!! ALL THE TIME!!! And 'promotion of others' is 180 degrees and lightspeed away from narcissism. That sentence was so ludicrous, I stopped reading right there.- KIKI



I just had to repeat this, lest it get lost too quickly.




LOl you do that SIG. It was in a definition of a narcissist I came across and it jumped out at me because it describes the two of you perfectly. It's the mask you wear. Your constant anti-west thread creation fills your need and at the same time your inconsistencies reveal you.

____________________________________________


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Wednesday, June 29, 2016 10:24 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

"Their narcissism displays itself in their posts as an extreme self-interest and promotion of others."- THUGR

I hope you realize that a narcissist is ALL about ME!! ALL ME!!! EVERY DAY!! ALL DAY!! ALL THE TIME!!! And 'promotion of others' is 180 degrees and lightspeed away from narcissism. That sentence was so ludicrous, I stopped reading right there.- KIKI

I just had to repeat this, lest it get lost too quickly. -SIGNY

LOl you do that SIG. It was in a definition of a narcissist I came across and it jumped out at me because it describes the two of you perfectly. It's the mask you wear.- THUGR



So ... narcissism = promotion of others? Just want to make sure I know what you're saying.

--------------
I'll tell you what I DON'T like about Trump: I think that he has never confronted either the international banking cartel, nor the CIA-State Dept multi-headed hydra, nor the military-industrial complex. The last person to confront them was JFK (BTW, ALL immigration was illegal under JFK) and look what happened to him.

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Wednesday, June 29, 2016 10:28 AM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

"Their narcissism displays itself in their posts as an extreme self-interest and promotion of others."- THUGR

I hope you realize that a narcissist is ALL about ME!! ALL ME!!! EVERY DAY!! ALL DAY!! ALL THE TIME!!! And 'promotion of others' is 180 degrees and lightspeed away from narcissism. That sentence was so ludicrous, I stopped reading right there.- KIKI

I just had to repeat this, lest it get lost too quickly. -SIGNY

LOl you do that SIG. It was in a definition of a narcissist I came across and it jumped out at me because it describes the two of you perfectly. It's the mask you wear.- THUGR



So ... narcissism = promotion of others? Just want to make sure I know what you're saying.




Don't try and figure it out SIG. Its over your head.

LOl you do that SIG. It was in a definition of a narcissist I came across and it jumped out at me because it describes the two of you perfectly. It's the mask you wear. Your constant anti-west thread creation fills your need and at the same time your inconsistencies reveal you.


____________________________________________


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Wednesday, June 29, 2016 10:37 AM

THGRRI


Rural poverty in Asia

"Poverty in Asia is a massive problem. Reducing poverty for huge numbers of poor people there is crucial to achieving the primary Millennium Development Goal of halving poverty by 2015. More than two thirds of the world’s poor people live in Asia, and nearly half of them are in Southern Asia."

There has been much success there

http://www.ruralpovertyportal.org/region/home/tags/asia

____________________________________________


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Thursday, June 30, 2016 6:44 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

THIS is what death from starvation looks like:


Do you need those figures again? 7.7 MILLION people STARVE TO DEATH EVERY YEAR .


Interestingly 7 million is about the number who starved to death in a SINGLE famine caused by the Soviets, a fact you refuse to acknowledge:

Quote:

Stalin also imposed the Soviet system of land management known as collectivization. This resulted in the seizure of all privately owned farmlands and livestock, in a country where 80 percent of the people were traditional village farmers. Among those farmers, were a class of people called Kulaks by the Communists. They were formerly wealthy farmers that had owned 24 or more acres, or had employed farm workers. Stalin believed any future insurrection would be led by the Kulaks, thus he proclaimed a policy aimed at "liquidating the Kulaks as a class."

Declared "enemies of the people," the Kulaks were left homeless and without a single possession as everything was taken from them, even their pots and pans. It was also forbidden by law for anyone to aid dispossessed Kulak families. Some researchers estimate that ten million persons were thrown out of their homes, put on railroad box cars and deported to "special settlements" in the wilderness of Siberia during this era, with up to a third of them perishing amid the frigid living conditions. Men and older boys, along with childless women and unmarried girls, also became slave-workers in Soviet-run mines and big industrial projects.

Back in the Ukraine, once-proud village farmers were by now reduced to the level of rural factory workers on large collective farms. Anyone refusing to participate in the compulsory collectivization system was simply denounced as a Kulak and deported.

A propaganda campaign was started utilizing eager young Communist activists who spread out among the country folk attempting to shore up the people's support for the Soviet regime. However, their attempts failed. Despite the propaganda, ongoing coercion and threats, the people continued to resist through acts of rebellion and outright sabotage. They burned their own homes rather than surrender them. They took back their property, tools and farm animals from the collectives, harassed and even assassinated local Soviet authorities. This ultimately put them in direct conflict with the power and authority of Joseph Stalin.

Soviet troops and secret police were rushed in to put down the rebellion. They confronted rowdy farmers by firing warning shots above their heads. In some cases, however, they fired directly at the people. Stalin's secret police (GPU, predecessor of the KGB) also went to work waging a campaign of terror designed to break the people's will. GPU squads systematically attacked and killed uncooperative farmers.

But the resistance continued. The people simply refused to become cogs in the Soviet farm machine and remained stubbornly determined to return to their pre-Soviet farming lifestyle. Some refused to work at all, leaving the wheat and oats to rot in unharvested fields. Once again, they were placing themselves in conflict with Stalin.

In Moscow, Stalin responded to their unyielding defiance by dictating a policy that would deliberately cause mass starvation and result in the deaths of millions.

By mid 1932, nearly 75 percent of the farms in the Ukraine had been forcibly collectivized. On Stalin's orders, mandatory quotas of foodstuffs to be shipped out to the Soviet Union were drastically increased in August, October and again in January 1933, until there was simply no food remaining to feed the people of the Ukraine.

Much of the hugely abundant wheat crop harvested by the Ukrainians that year was dumped on the foreign market to generate cash to aid Stalin's Five Year Plan for the modernization of the Soviet Union and also to help finance his massive military buildup. If the wheat had remained in the Ukraine, it was estimated to have been enough to feed all of the people there for up to two years.

Ukrainian Communists urgently appealed to Moscow for a reduction in the grain quotas and also asked for emergency food aid. Stalin responded by denouncing them and rushed in over 100,000 fiercely loyal Russian soldiers to purge the Ukrainian Communist Party. The Soviets then sealed off the borders of the Ukraine, preventing any food from entering, in effect turning the country into a gigantic concentration camp. Soviet police troops inside the Ukraine also went house to house seizing any stored up food, leaving farm families without a morsel. All food was considered to be the "sacred" property of the State. Anyone caught stealing State property, even an ear of corn or stubble of wheat, could be shot or imprisoned for not less than ten years.

Starvation quickly ensued throughout the Ukraine, with the most vulnerable, children and the elderly, first feeling the effects of malnutrition. The once-smiling young faces of children vanished forever amid the constant pain of hunger. It gnawed away at their bellies, which became grossly swollen, while their arms and legs became like sticks as they slowly starved to death.

Mothers in the countryside sometimes tossed their emaciated children onto passing railroad cars traveling toward cities such as Kiev in the hope someone there would take pity. But in the cities, children and adults who had already flocked there from the countryside were dropping dead in the streets, with their bodies carted away in horse-drawn wagons to be dumped in mass graves. Occasionally, people lying on the sidewalk who were thought to be dead, but were actually still alive, were also carted away and buried.

While police and Communist Party officials remained quite well fed, desperate Ukrainians ate leaves off bushes and trees, killed dogs, cats, frogs, mice and birds then cooked them. Others, gone mad with hunger, resorted to cannibalism, with parents sometimes even eating their own children.

Meanwhile, nearby Soviet-controlled granaries were said to be bursting at the seams from huge stocks of 'reserve' grain, which had not yet been shipped out of the Ukraine. In some locations, grain and potatoes were piled in the open, protected by barbed wire and armed GPU guards who shot down anyone attempting to take the food. Farm animals, considered necessary for production, were allowed to be fed, while the people living among them had absolutely nothing to eat.

By the spring of 1933, the height of the famine, an estimated 25,000 persons died every day in the Ukraine. Entire villages were perishing. In Europe, America and Canada, persons of Ukrainian descent and others responded to news reports of the famine by sending in food supplies. But Soviet authorities halted all food shipments at the border. It was the official policy of the Soviet Union to deny the existence of a famine and thus to refuse any outside assistance. Anyone claiming that there was in fact a famine was accused of spreading anti-Soviet propaganda. Inside the Soviet Union, a person could be arrested for even using the word 'famine' or 'hunger' or 'starvation' in a sentence.

...



http://www.historyplace.com/worldhistory/genocide/stalin.htm

In case it isn't clear to anyone yet, kiki is only pretending to care about starving people to push what she really cares about - her own communist ideology.

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Friday, July 1, 2016 12:19 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


YOUR SOURCE:

Historian Mark B. Tauger of West Virginia University suggests that the famine was caused by a combination of factors, specifically low harvest due to natural disasters combined with increased demand for food caused by the collectivization, industrialization and urbanization.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_famine_of_1932%E2%80%9333




Let me just point out that the author left out vital relevant facts in the opinion piece. Doing that is known as cherry-picking. And whether you do that in the news, in discussion, in debate or in opinion, when you distort the facts, you've changed the nature of your communication into propaganda. But WE don't have any of THAT in the US, do we?!

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Friday, July 1, 2016 1:03 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


https://www.indiafoodbanking.org/hunger

India, with a population of over 1.2 billion, has seen tremendous growth in the past two decades. Gross Domestic Product has increased 4.5 times and per capita consumption has increased 3 times. Similarly, food grain production has increased almost 2 times. However, despite phenomenal industrial and economic growth, while India produces sufficient food to feed its population, it is unable to provide access to food to a large number of people, especially women and children.
State of Hunger in India

Hunger in India is a complex issue. It is widespread and the causes are different across various regions. According to latest FAO estimates in ‘The State of Food Insecurity in the World, 2015” report, 194.6 million people are undernourished in India. By this measure India is home to a quarter of the undernourished population in the world.




Let me just point out that the author left out vital relevant facts in the opinion piece. Doing that is known as cherry-picking. And whether you do that in the news, in discussion, in debate or in opinion, when you distort the facts, you've changed the nature of your communication into propaganda. But WE don't have any of THAT in the US, do we?!

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Friday, July 1, 2016 2:09 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

YOUR SOURCE:

Actually I gave 2 sources, you cherry picked the one from earlier in the thread (the Wikipedia one) and within that article you cherry picked the views of the one historian most sympathetic to the Soviet Union, and then within his quote you cherry picked the causes of the famine that Stalin was not responsible for (natural disasters/low harvest) while ignoring the ones that he obviously was (like collectivisation).

Bravo, that was a masterclass of burying your head in the sand and preserving your precious communist ideology at all costs! Talk about blinkered vision!

Ok let's put the matter to bed. In case anyone still has doubts that the lengthy historical account above is accurate, here's an excerpt from a statement signed at the United Nations by 25 countries including Russia and Ukraine about the famine:

"In the former Soviet Union millions of men, women and children fell victims to the cruel actions and policies of the totalitarian regime. The Great Famine of 1932–1933 in Ukraine (Holodomor), took from 7 million to 10 million innocent lives and became a national tragedy for the Ukrainian people."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor#In_modern_politics


Voici. Communism causing mass starvation. As if there was ever any question about it.

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