Birthers

POSTED BY: AnthonyT
UPDATED: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 18:09
VIEWED: 4799
PAGE 1 of 1

ANTHONYT

Friday, August 6, 2010 7:57 PM

Hello,

I recently read that a quarter of Americans doubt the President's eligibility status. (Questioning that he is 'natural born.' That's an astounding figure, but the rest of us have typically mollified our sense of horror by thinking things like, "Well, it must be the dumbest quarter of humanity."

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/08/06/terrence.lakin.birther.bio/index.h
tml?hpt=T1

Now we have a Doctor and a high-ranking military man (on the cusp of promotion to full Colonel) with a chest full of medals who is flushing his career down the toilet over this issue.

Is there a point when the question of the President's eligibility becomes enough of a concern to the American people that it warrants some kind of inquiry in the hopes of quelling this issue?

Would any evidence be sufficient to quell this issue? Or would amateur conspiracy theorists simply argue eternally that any and all evidence was fraudulant?

Is there any way to cure this persistent cancer eating at the minds of the American people?

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

NIKI2

Friday, August 6, 2010 8:12 PM

Quote:
Would any evidence be sufficient to quell this issue? Or would amateur conspiracy theorists simply argue eternally that any and all evidence was fraudulant?

Is there any way to cure this persistent cancer eating at the minds of the American people?

No, Yes, and I don't think so.

People can be manipulated, period. Some are more easily manipulated than others. Some have feelings which allow them to be manipulated more easily. Those who desire power are very good at finding ways to manipulate people. End of story.

I know, it's ridiculous and disgusting, but you won't stop it; you can't. The only thing we can do is ignore them, as the White House tries to.

We're in a real pickle in America right now. So much that would seem unbelievable is happening, that it's hard to believe...

Stephen Wright: "I feel like I'm diagonally parked in a parallel universe."

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

WULFENSTAR

Friday, August 6, 2010 8:12 PM

IF he is not American born... well, all the horrific shit hes pulled is null and void.

Gives people hope. Me too, btw.

Maybe this nightmare can be cancelled?

You know.. its kind of amazing. Americans hate Bama so much that they are hoping hes foreign born so we can disavow the last few years...

Even with all the hippies, and their signs... I've NEVER seen such anger and disdain for a "president".

BYTEMITE

Friday, August 6, 2010 8:19 PM

This isn't some nightmare you can wake up from. Damage been done. If TPTB put Obama in office, you think they particularly would care if he was foreign born, you think they'd remove him?

Wishful thinking. At least put stock in realistic options.

JONGSSTRAW

Friday, August 6, 2010 8:27 PM

Most Presidents have problems with certain groups of individuals. President Lincoln had nearly half the country hating his guts and wanting him dead. President George Washington was hung in effigy so may times that he just walked away from it after 2 terms. He could have served until he died. And of course President George W. Bush...he was scarred and tainted by half the country the minute the Supreme Court ruled in his favor to become President. I am surprised the Obama birth thing has lasted as long as it has. I think it's absurd, but that's America for you.

NIKI2

Friday, August 6, 2010 8:34 PM

Yup,

Quote:
Most Presidents have problems with certain groups of individuals

and yup

Quote:
I think it's absurd, but that's America for you.

We are a bit of a nutty nation, but then others are too in their ways.

It'll never be disproven because "they" will never believe, no matter WHAT is shown as proof. He wouldn't be removed as Prez even if it was proven, which it can't be because it's absurd.

That's about it.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

KANEMAN

Friday, August 6, 2010 8:39 PM

I was just listening to a radio show where they are saying he never showed a birth certificate. I think it is crap. He would have been exposed already...

BYTEMITE

Friday, August 6, 2010 8:49 PM

Pretty much what I think. I also doubt anyone would remove him from office if it turned out to be true; no one who might remotely have that power gives a good damn about the U.S. Constitution.

I think that's the mistake people keep making, thinking anyone in power is ever going to play by the rules.

NIKI2

Friday, August 6, 2010 8:52 PM

Of course it's crap, like JS said, there's always someone (which grows into "some group")...

Remember, the same thing happened to McCain because he ws born outside the US. Tit for tat, only Obama won. Actually, I think if McCain had won, it would never have come up again. After all, he's white, he looks like us...

Yes, I know what you're going to say, but the fact remains that there ARE racist aspects to the hatred of Obama, however many or few they may be. And this stuff feeds it.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

WULFENSTAR

Friday, August 6, 2010 8:55 PM

So... why play by the rules anymore?

I keep saying that this coming November will be a turning point...

Do we play by the rules or ?

We are all tired of so called "authorities" telling us what to do.

Maybe a noose and fire are in order?

AURAPTOR

Friday, August 6, 2010 9:14 PM

I doubt anyone wants " President Biden " to address the nation, under any circumstances - EVER!

Which make me feel that most of the 'birther' nonsense is actually Lib Dems who are keeping the phony issue alive,to disparage the Tea Party movement, and distract from the real issues.

BYTEMITE

Friday, August 6, 2010 9:20 PM

Quote:
Maybe a noose and fire are in order?

You don't have the numbers on your side yet, or you do, but not committed enough yet to do anything. You need them.

You'll just undermine your own cause if you decide to take the fight to the masses, because TPTB will throw whatever innocent idiots it needs to at you to keep you as far away from them as you can. And that kind of fight is a good way to lose the numbers you need. Subterfuge and cleverness gets you around that.

Expose corruption, work with outrage, and you'll get somewhere. Build yourself somewhere to work from.

Oh, and work on how you goddamn phrase things, Wulf, because lose potential allies far too often when you're not careful. "Noose and fire?"

You know what that sounds like to anyone else?

WHOZIT

Friday, August 6, 2010 9:33 PM

I found some more pictures of Barry's family.

www.alienandufopictures.com

Those arn't boobs, they're lies! - Stewie Griffin

PEACEKEEPER

Friday, August 6, 2010 10:24 PM

Guys, let me ask you a serious question here and I ask this with the greatest respect. What, in your opinion, is a "Natuaral Born American"? With the greatest of respect, I consider your country to be the largest melting pot of different cultures in living history.So what the hell is a true American. In my opinion, if you aint scalpin folk and throwin tomahawks at each other, you aint no native American. And before you start Brit bashing, I am aware that this little old backwater has been overthrown and conquered down the centuries, so I'm not throwin stones in the greenhouse.
Just found it interestin that in "The Land of the free", you seem to have an identity problem with your own fucking President. Discuss!!!!

Peacekeeper---keeping order in every verse!!!

AURAPTOR

Friday, August 6, 2010 10:36 PM

peacekeepr -

This issue was dealt with and addressed, nearly 230 years ago.

Quote:
Eligibility
Article II, Section 1, Clause 5 of the Constitution sets the principal qualifications one must meet to be eligible to the office of president. A president must:

be a natural born citizen of the United States;

be at least thirty-five years old;

have been a permanent resident in the United States for at least fourteen years.

You'll note it does not say 'true American', but natural born citizen. There is some wiggle room here, but it's generally understood that the President must be born IN the United States, or , in the case of John McCain, to citizens of the U.S., in U.S. territory.

PEACEKEEPER

Friday, August 6, 2010 10:40 PM

I was under the impression that the first article you mentioned had been amended.Is it not true that if Schwarzenegger wished to run, he would now be eligible, despite him being essentially Austrian born? Or is that a viscious rumour I have picked up in a dream somewhere?

Peacekeeper---keeping order in every verse!!!

AURAPTOR

Friday, August 6, 2010 10:43 PM

The Arnold is not eligible to run for President.

WHOZIT

Friday, August 6, 2010 10:45 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by peacekeeper:
Guys, let me ask you a serious question here and I ask this with the greatest respect. What, in your opinion, is a "Natuaral Born American"? With the greatest of respect, I consider your country to be the largest melting pot of different cultures in living history.So what the hell is a true American. In my opinion, if you aint scalpin folk and throwin tomahawks at each other, you aint no native American. And before you start Brit bashing, I am aware that this little old backwater has been overthrown and conquered down the centuries, so I'm not throwin stones in the greenhouse.
Just found it interestin that in "The Land of the free", you seem to have an identity problem with your own fucking President. Discuss!!!!

Peacekeeper---keeping order in every verse!!!

You think we're tuff, try Mexico.

Those arn't boobs, they're lies! - Stewie Griffin

PIRATENEWS

Saturday, August 7, 2010 12:43 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:

I recently read that a quarter of Americans doubt the President's eligibility status. (Questioning that he is 'natural born.' That's an astounding figure, but the rest of us have typically mollified our sense of horror by thinking things like, "Well, it must be the dumbest quarter of humanity."

Read this:

Quote:
CNN's bad news for Obama: 6 of 10 doubt U.S. birth story

A new poll by CNN, whose editorial commentary largely supports President Obama and his policies, delivered some bad news on his apparent birthday today: 6 of 10 people are uncertain the president was even born in the United States.

The poll was taken July 16-21 of 1,018 adults, including 335 Democrats and 285 Republicans. It has a margin of error of 3 percentage points.

The question was: "Do you think Barack Obama was definitely born in the United States, probably born in the United States, probably born in another country, or definitely born in another country?"

Definitely in the United States got the vote from 42 percent of the respondents and probably in the United States another 29 percent.

But that leaves almost six of 10 Americans uncertain about the president's birth – and therefore his eligibility under the U.S. Constitution to be president.

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?pageId=187781

See the movie Obama does not want you to see, probes this unprecedented presidential-eligibility mystery!
http://www.veoh.com/browse/videos/category/activism_non_profit/watch/v
192376089ZBBMzq3

Either his father is the official named Barack Obama Sr, the citizen of British Kenya. Or Obama's father is Communist Party member and pornoking Frank Davis. Either way, Obama renounced his US citizenship to become a citizen of Indonesia, and changed his name to Barack Soetoro.

Quote:
FUD.
Fear, uncertainty, and doubt (FUD) is a tactic of rhetoric and fallacy used in sales, marketing, public relations, politics and propaganda. FUD is generally a strategic attempt to influence public perception by disseminating negative and dubious/false information designed to undermine the credibility of their beliefs. According to some commentators, examples of political FUD are: "domino theory", "electronic Pearl Harbor", and "weapons of mass destruction".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear%2C_uncertainty_and_doubt

Twenty-Five Ways To Suppress Truth: The Rules of Disinformation

Includes The 8 Traits of A Disinformationalist

by H. Michael Sweeney
www.MKZine.com
Spring/Summer 2003

5. Sidetrack opponents with name calling and ridicule. This is also known as the primary 'attack the messenger' ploy, though other methods qualify as variants of that approach. Associate opponents with unpopular titles such as 'kooks', 'right-wing', 'liberal', 'left-wing', 'terrorists', 'conspiracy buffs', 'radicals', 'militia', 'racists', 'religious fanatics', 'sexual deviates', and so forth. This makes others shrink from support out of fear of gaining the same label, and you avoid dealing with issues.

6. Hit and Run. In any public forum, make a brief attack of your opponent or the opponent position and then scamper off before an answer can be fielded, or simply ignore any answer. This works extremely well in Internet and letters-to-the-editor environments where a steady stream of new identities can be called upon without having to explain criticism, reasoning -- simply make an accusation or other attack, never discussing issues, and never answering any subsequent response, for that would dignify the opponent's viewpoint.

9. Play Dumb. No matter what evidence or logical argument is offered, avoid discussing issues except with denials they have any credibility, make any sense, provide any proof, contain or make a point, have logic, or support a conclusion. Mix well for maximum effect.

17. Change the subject. Usually in connection with one of the other ploys listed here, find

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Saturday, August 7, 2010 12:49 AM

The problem is with Birthers and all the other loony conspiracy theorists that clog up the internet and the news is that they keep getting airspace.

Ignore them and they will eventually go away

BYTEMITE

Saturday, August 7, 2010 1:11 AM

That poll is ridiculous.

First it's pretty blatantly slanted towards trying to produce an "obama was born in the U.S. response," so yes, it's a credit to the side that thinks Obama was not that they got as much of the vote as they did.

But the idea that you can take "probably" and add it on to either positive or negative responses is such a bunch of data manipulation.

I can buy the logic they're using, saying the "probably" = "uncertainty" option even though it's a tiny bit of a stretch (probably is a positive response, uncertain is a neutral response). But report it right!

If you look at it this way, honestly you can only say TWENTY NINE percent are uncertain, another TWENTY NINE believe without a doubt Obama isn't eligible, and FORTY TWO percent believe he is. I know full well that they're adding those two 29s together, but that's just was wrong as adding 29 to 42 and saying 71% of the population thinks Obama WAS born in America. Polling is a psuedoscience as it is, but dammit I wish pollsters would at least ACT like they care about a neutral representation.

PIRATENEWS

Saturday, August 7, 2010 2:36 AM

Kagan v Birthers
http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=44702

Kagan is Obama's lawyer in dozens of courts fighting birther lawsuits, to keep Obama from showing his birth certificate and college diploma. Now she's officially a bull dyke jew on the Supreme Court.

Coincidence?

"Hey Wanda Sykes, what do you say about that, you 70-year-old dried up lesbian self?!"
-Pastor James David Manning PhD

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Saturday, August 7, 2010 6:32 AM

Oh yes, I'll believe what you post, PN. You never manipulate data for your own purposes, do you?

This story is so sadly dilusional that it is ridiculous. Anyone running for Presidency knows how there lives are scrutinised to the last degree, so they really wouldn't bother.

As so why the law rules out foreign born people, seems a little odd to me. Seems even disciminatory. Obviously some reason it was put in the constitution at the time that is no longer relevant.

KANEMAN

Saturday, August 7, 2010 2:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
The problem is with Birthers and all the other loony conspiracy theorists that clog up the internet and the news is that they keep getting airspace.

Ignore them and they will eventually go away

Like me

BYTEMITE

Saturday, August 7, 2010 3:25 PM

Actually, it was put in to prevent someone taking the executive office who represents foreign interests, and not domestic. Which theoretically could be as bad for America as someone who only represents corporate interests, or someone who only represents the interests of one part of the US Government, which our FF regretably weren't farsighted enough to include something about THAT.

Discriminatory it might be, but that doesn't necessarily bring into question legality. The fact that a ten year old might want to have a relationship with an adult, and it's illegal regardless of whether the child expressed consent might be considered ageism, but there's a good reason for it, see.

NIKI2

Saturday, August 7, 2010 10:54 PM

Peacekeeper,

Quote:
consider your country to be the largest melting pot of different cultures in living history.So what the hell is a true American. In my opinion, if you aint scalpin folk and throwin tomahawks at each other, you aint no native American.

Basically, "Yup". You guys don't even KNOW for sure who are "Indigenous", your history goes back so far. We KNOW our population is all immigrants, except the Native Americans. I don't understand it either, why we are so "I got mine, fuck you" about immigrants, but xenophobia is a pretty common human mentality.

MOST of us don't have a problem with the legitimacy of our President. A very large "most". We're not all raving lunatics, believe it or not.

And yes, ignoring them is the best option, Magons; unfortunately the media gets a kick out of giving them screen time, so it never completely goes away. Fifty years from now, they or their descendants will STILL be convinced he wasn't an American. Some people you just can't help...

As to excluding non-citizens from becoming Prez, do Britain or Australia let non-citizens hold high office? Just curious.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

WHOZIT

Saturday, August 7, 2010 10:57 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Peacekeeper,
Quote:
consider your country to be the largest melting pot of different cultures in living history.So what the hell is a true American. In my opinion, if you aint scalpin folk and throwin tomahawks at each other, you aint no native American.
Basically, "Yup". You guys don't even KNOW for sure who are "Indigenous", your history goes back so far. We KNOW our population is all immigrants, except the Native Americans. I don't understand it either, why we are so "I got mine, fuck you" about immigrants, but xenophobia is a pretty common human mentality.

MOST of us don't have a problem with the legitimacy of our President. A very large "most". We're not all raving lunatics, believe it or not.

And yes, ignoring them is the best option, Magons; unfortunately the media gets a kick out of giving them screen time, so it never completely goes away. Fifty years from now, they or their descendants will STILL be convinced he wasn't an American. Some people you just can't help...

As to excluding non-citizens from becoming Prez, do Britain or Australia let non-citizens hold high office? Just curious.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

You'd have a problem if he/she was a Republican.

DICKCHENEY

Saturday, August 7, 2010 11:20 PM

"You'd have a problem if he/she was a Republican."

But where he/she was born would have nothing to do with it.

Go Fuck Yourself!

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Sunday, August 8, 2010 3:28 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:

Discriminatory it might be, but that doesn't necessarily bring into question legality. The fact that a ten year old might want to have a relationship with an adult, and it's illegal regardless of whether the child expressed consent might be considered ageism, but there's a good reason for it, see.

And there are laws which become outdated. Some things are illegal, but there is no longer a good reason for them to be there.

What difference would it make if a foreign born natualised citizen became President?

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Sunday, August 8, 2010 3:31 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:

As to excluding non-citizens from becoming Prez, do Britain or Australia let non-citizens hold high office? Just curious.

No, our current PM was born in Wales and immigrated when she was five. She was what is known as one of the 10 pound poms - the English who came out on subsidised sea fares after ww2.

I think a number of our PM's have been foreign born. I think you have to be a naturalised citizen, but otherwise no barriers such as age or where you where born.

BYTEMITE

Sunday, August 8, 2010 3:48 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:

And there are laws which become outdated. Some things are illegal, but there is no longer a good reason for them to be there.

What difference would it make if a foreign born natualised citizen became President?

Uh, no, I'm pretty sure America still has enemy nations, and hell, even some fairly treacherous allies. Not you Australia, and not really Britain. I think you can guess who I mean.

There's still very good reasons to not allow naturalized citizens become President. Unless you want world war 3 in the Middle East or something, but hey, what self-respecting anonymous evil internet troll like myself doesn't? Peace talks are so much easier when everyone involved is radioactive charcoal.

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Sunday, August 8, 2010 4:02 AM

I'm sorry, I don't get what you mean. Are you suggesting that a country would plant someone as a president? How hard would that be - given what you have to go through and the scrutiny of your life that you have to undergo. If someone wants to go the the effort of planting someone, living their life as an American, becoming naturalised, work their way through the political system, get nominated, get through the primaries and actually get elected to the Big Job - it's a pretty big long shot don't yoiu think, that someone would be a sleeper agent from another country. EWhat would be the odds that they would ever be elected. Wouldn't it be as easy to buy off a natural born citizen? I mean, being born in a place does not protect against being a traitor.

BYTEMITE

Sunday, August 8, 2010 4:07 AM

Absolutely, and that's a problem we're currently encountering.

But unfortunately, America also has a long history of espionage and sleeper agents being planted in our country, so for some nations it IS worth it, and it's still a concern.

I'm finding myself baffled that someone from Australia might be arguing that they think the American presidency ought to have more LAX standards.

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Sunday, August 8, 2010 4:24 AM

I'm not arguing for anything. I'm simply questioning. And I don't see that being born in a country would prevent you from being a sleeper agent. I mean isn't that why people's lives ARE scrutinised so much, to ensure that the person is who they say they are.

I'm picturing the kind of scenario where a palastinian born muslim who immigrated to America might easily ascend to the presidency. I think it's pretty unlikely.

Having said all this, it's pretty clear that Obama isn't foreign born and that this is all a silly beat up aimed at destabilising his presidency.

BYTEMITE

Sunday, August 8, 2010 5:13 AM

Quote:
Having said all this, it's pretty clear that Obama isn't foreign born and that this is all a silly beat up aimed at destabilising his presidency.

Right.

Quote:
I'm picturing the kind of scenario where a palastinian born muslim who immigrated to America might easily ascend to the presidency. I think it's pretty unlikely.

Depends on whether they look racially not-white, which is not always the case from the Middle East... And that's becoming less of an issue (considering how the current president was actually ELECTED).

I'm less concerned about Palestine than I am other nations who already have quite a lot of influence on US foreign policy,

1KIKI

Sunday, August 8, 2010 5:15 AM

AnthonyT

To address your topic:

Why Facts No Longer Matter
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=44729

NIKI2

Sunday, August 8, 2010 1:16 PM

Magons, ever heard of the "Manchurian Candidate"? It's along the same lines, in a way. And bear in mind that while we are (in my opinion) a people often born to conspiracies and conspiracy theories (our government is great on them!), America is also sitting out there with a gigantic target painted on it.

I don't see the scenario myself and would have no problem, but the one single reason I'm glad the law is the way it is, is that the Govenator can't run. We couldn't stop Ray-gun and Tricky Dick from screwing up our state and going on to screw up the country, but thank gawd Ahny can't!

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

MAL4PREZ

Sunday, August 8, 2010 3:30 PM

I see the Birther thing as a continuation of that moronic Bush era mentality: if you don't agree with W, you're not a real American. Continued with Palin and Tea Party: if you're not a white hetero ignoramus living in a small town, you're not a real American.

The right-wing close-minded types absolutely need "America" to mean them and them only. They certainly can't have the lead top #1 American be Barack Obama. No no no that won't do! Hence, Obama must not be an American.

They NEED to believe that, so no evidence to the cantrary will ever be accepted. Which feeds into your other thread Niki - this Birther thing is an emotional belief, and not based on reason or facts.

It isn't even really about Obama, it's about these conservatives feeling lost in a society that is no longer defined and controlled by them. Black people have power now. Gay folks can be happily married and raise children. American food is not necessarily hot dogs and apple pie - it may include some kind of salsa. This really fucks some people up, because they want that white, bland, suburban 1950s utopia to live forever.

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

NIKI2

Sunday, August 8, 2010 6:06 PM

I agree on every point, Mal4. I would say the same applies to every country to a degree, it being a pretty common human failing. People don't like change, and those with particularly strong feelings like change even LESS.

Quote:
it's about these conservatives feeling lost in a society that is no longer defined and controlled by them.

Yes, and which goes back to the thing about "fear" being such a great motivator. Fear of losing what you've got I imagine helps fire them up to a degree, among other things.

Your entire post was well put and pretty much answers the question, as far as I'm concerned.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

RIVERLOVE

Sunday, August 8, 2010 9:51 PM

Quote:
it's about these conservatives feeling lost in a society that is no longer defined and controlled by them.

Yes, we've lost a lot to you secular progressives, I cannot deny that. But I am ever-hopeful that at some point the tide will turn against the current quagmire of Liberal economic and political failures, and the Liberal-led moral decay of society.

KWICKO

Sunday, August 8, 2010 10:25 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
IF he is not American born... well, all the horrific shit hes pulled is null and void.

Gives people hope. Me too, btw.

Maybe this nightmare can be cancelled?

You know.. its kind of amazing. Americans hate Bama so much that they are hoping hes foreign born so we can disavow the last few years...

Even with all the hippies, and their signs... I've NEVER seen such anger and disdain for a "president".

Okay, lots to catch up on, so many posts to follow. Bear with me. I'll start here. Be warned: Lots to come. If you don't want to get bogged down in the verbosity, just skip on over the rest of my responses... [There - you were warned!

]

Quote:
IF he is not American born... well, all the horrific shit hes pulled is null and void.

Gives people hope. Me too, btw.

Maybe this nightmare can be cancelled?

How? Outline for me the legal steps you think would follow, *IF* it were conclusively proven that Obama weren't "natural born" (does that apply to Cesarian birth, or C-section, as well? After all, it ain't "natural" birth...)

How would everything Obama has done be "cancelled"? How would anything be "null and void"?

Obama hasn't passed a single law. He's signed some bills INTO law, but Congress already passed them. So, say, Biden is President (25th would apply); you think he wouldn't sign those same bills if it were ruled that Obama's signature wasn't valid?

Quote:
You know.. its kind of amazing. Americans hate Bama so much that they are hoping hes foreign born so we can disavow the last few years...

You know, it IS kind of amazing. SOME "Americans" hate the President so much that they are actually hoping he's foreign-born, so they can feel better about the idea that he's really, really NOT "one of us" - and this time it won't mean just in the "not white like us" sense.

Quote:

Even with all the hippies, and their signs... I've NEVER seen such anger and disdain for a "president".

Yes, but as you've readily admitted, you really weren't very aware or awake until "they" elected a black man President, right?

All those "hippies" you've never seen? You never saw them. You weren't there, you didn't see jack shit, and you have no idea what the hell you're talking about, because it was before your time.

Hell, the anti-war protest under Bush were bigger than any of the tea parties, by a large margin. You don't remember that, because you weren't paying any attention back then, since your boy was in power.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

KWICKO

Sunday, August 8, 2010 10:27 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
This isn't some nightmare you can wake up from. Damage been done. If TPTB put Obama in office, you think they particularly would care if he was foreign born, you think they'd remove him?

Wishful thinking. At least put stock in realistic options.

Bingo. As someone else pointed out months ago, once he took the oath of office, he became the Prez. Whining about it after the fact is just trying to unring a bell.

KWICKO

Sunday, August 8, 2010 10:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
peacekeepr -

This issue was dealt with and addressed, nearly 230 years ago.

Quote:
Eligibility
Article II, Section 1, Clause 5 of the Constitution sets the principal qualifications one must meet to be eligible to the office of president. A president must:

be a natural born citizen of the United States;

be at least thirty-five years old;

have been a permanent resident in the United States for at least fourteen years.

You'll note it does not say 'true American', but natural born citizen. There is some wiggle room here, but it's generally understood that the President must be born IN the United States, or , in the case of John McCain, to citizens of the U.S., in U.S. territory.

That's a pretty gross simplification, but the broad strokes are generally within the lines.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

KWICKO

Sunday, August 8, 2010 10:43 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by peacekeeper:
I was under the impression that the first article you mentioned had been amended.Is it not true that if Schwarzenegger wished to run, he would now be eligible, despite him being essentially Austrian born? Or is that a viscious rumour I have picked up in a dream somewhere?

Peacekeeper---keeping order in every verse!!!

Quote:
Posted by Rappy:

The Arnold is not eligible to run for President.

Rappy's got it; Ahnolt is not ever going to be the President of the U.S.

There was TALK of doing a quickie legal change that would allow him to run, but it was never more than cheap talk, phony populism, and a political stunt to garner votes. It was never likely, never really even possible, because it would have taken a Constitutional Amendment to make it so, and there was little if any chance that such a thing would have gotten enough support to pass.

And, as with some other Amendments (I'm looking at YOU, Twenty-Second!), there are unforeseen consequences that arise to knee-jerk legislation.

KWICKO

Sunday, August 8, 2010 10:46 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
That poll is ridiculous.

First it's pretty blatantly slanted towards trying to produce an "obama was born in the U.S. response," so yes, it's a credit to the side that thinks Obama was not that they got as much of the vote as they did.

But the idea that you can take "probably" and add it on to either positive or negative responses is such a bunch of data manipulation.

I can buy the logic they're using, saying the "probably" = "uncertainty" option even though it's a tiny bit of a stretch (probably is a positive response, uncertain is a neutral response). But report it right!

If you look at it this way, honestly you can only say TWENTY NINE percent are uncertain, another TWENTY NINE believe without a doubt Obama isn't eligible, and FORTY TWO percent believe he is. I know full well that they're adding those two 29s together, but that's just was wrong as adding 29 to 42 and saying 71% of the population thinks Obama WAS born in America. Polling is a psuedoscience as it is, but dammit I wish pollsters would at least ACT like they care about a neutral representation.

Nobody cares about neutral polling. It serves no agenda, therefore it is useless. Any decent pollster could get you to support raping babies. It's all in how it's worded, and it's designed to get an emotional response, not an HONEST response.

Never make the mistake of equating polling data to scientific data. Polls are unscientific in the extreme, and if anyone ever tried to do an unbiased poll, they'd be hung from a telephone pole. (Oooh - clever wordplay, that!)

KWICKO

Sunday, August 8, 2010 10:50 PM

Quote:

Kagan is Obama's lawyer in dozens of courts fighting birther lawsuits, to keep Obama from showing his birth certificate and college diploma.

Coincidence?

Not coincidence. She was his Solicitor General, so it fell to her to represent his administration's side in every case against him.

The reason his team fights every one of these frivolous, meaningless lawsuits is the exact same reason you fight every speeding ticket, John: They don't recognize the authority of those who are bringing the suit, and they refuse to deal with such nutfuckery as "equals" in a court of law.

The SCOTUS is with the Prez on this one, by the way, refusing to hear the cases because they find them to be utterly without any legal merit or standing.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

KWICKO

Sunday, August 8, 2010 10:55 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:

Discriminatory it might be, but that doesn't necessarily bring into question legality. The fact that a ten year old might want to have a relationship with an adult, and it's illegal regardless of whether the child expressed consent might be considered ageism, but there's a good reason for it, see.

And there are laws which become outdated. Some things are illegal, but there is no longer a good reason for them to be there.

What difference would it make if a foreign born natualised citizen became President?

It may seem quaint; it may seem silly, but it's ours. :)

By the way, I should point out that at one point in the run-up to the 1988 election, when Mikhail Gorbachev was here in the States doing a publicity tour, and after he'd stopped his motorcade and gotten out to shake hands with the Americans gathered to witness his visit (this was BEFORE the fall of the Soviet Union, by the way), there were polls which showed that, if he were running for President against George H.W. Bush, he'd be in the lead, and not by just a few points, but by about 15!

Hard to find anyone who remembers seeing that polling data now, but I do. Wish I still had it on videotape, because it was eye-opening to see.

It was at that point that I think at least a few Americans were really glad we had that Constitutional provision in place. ;)

KWICKO

Sunday, August 8, 2010 11:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
I'm not arguing for anything. I'm simply questioning. And I don't see that being born in a country would prevent you from being a sleeper agent. I mean isn't that why people's lives ARE scrutinised so much, to ensure that the person is who they say they are.

I'm picturing the kind of scenario where a palastinian born muslim who immigrated to America might easily ascend to the presidency. I think it's pretty unlikely.

Having said all this, it's pretty clear that Obama isn't foreign born and that this is all a silly beat up aimed at destabilising his presidency.

Rather than "Palestinian-born Muslim", think "Austrian-born Republican", and see where that gets you.

I'm only semi-kidding about that.

KWICKO

Sunday, August 8, 2010 11:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
I see the Birther thing as a continuation of that moronic Bush era mentality: if you don't agree with W, you're not a real American. Continued with Palin and Tea Party: if you're not a white hetero ignoramus living in a small town, you're not a real American.

The right-wing close-minded types absolutely need "America" to mean them and them only. They certainly can't have the lead top #1 American be Barack Obama. No no no that won't do! Hence, Obama must not be an American.

They NEED to believe that, so no evidence to the cantrary will ever be accepted. Which feeds into your other thread Niki - this Birther thing is an emotional belief, and not based on reason or facts.

It isn't even really about Obama, it's about these conservatives feeling lost in a society that is no longer defined and controlled by them. Black people have power now. Gay folks can be happily married and raise children. American food is not necessarily hot dogs and apple pie - it may include some kind of salsa. This really fucks some people up, because they want that white, bland, suburban 1950s utopia to live forever.

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

That's perfect, really, and sums it up quite eloquently.

If you don't like what Obama's done, or what he stands for, then it doesn't say anything about YOU or YOUR beliefs - it's all on him, because he's not REALLY an "American" anyway, right?

That's what the Birthers come across as, from where I stand. It's a way to make it okay to hate Obama and have it NOT be about "race". It's not because he's BLACK, really - it's because he's UN-AMERICAN!

That seems to be the argument from the right.

KWICKO

Sunday, August 8, 2010 11:11 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Riverlove:
Quote:
it's about these conservatives feeling lost in a society that is no longer defined and controlled by them.

Yes, we've lost a lot to you secular progressives, I cannot deny that. But I am ever-hopeful that at some point the tide will turn against the current quagmire of Liberal economic and political failures, and the Liberal-led moral decay of society.

"Liberal-led moral decay"?

I'm so mad at those dang libruls for making Larry Craig go gay! And why did they make Ted Haggard blow that dude? And how dare they lure all those Republicans into that bondage-themed lesbian strip club! Dang LIBRULS! How DARE they!

You HAVE lost a lot to us "secular progressives", haven't you? Women got the right to vote, blacks became citizens AND got the right to vote, 18-year-olds got the right to vote... Man, before you know it, it won't be safe to be a "strict constitutionalist" anymore!

You ever wonder why they call us "progressives"? (Hint: it's not because we sell cheap insurance. Think "progress".)

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

KWICKO

Sunday, August 8, 2010 11:12 PM

And with that, I think I'm all caught up.

At least with THIS thread, anyway...

Gotta go!

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Sunday, August 8, 2010 11:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Magons, ever heard of the "Manchurian Candidate"? It's along the same lines, in a way. And bear in mind that while we are (in my opinion) a people often born to conspiracies and conspiracy theories (our government is great on them!), America is also sitting out there with a gigantic target painted on it.

The Manchurian Candidate - at least in the original film not that dross of a remake - was an American who was brainwashed while a prisoner of war. In which case, the candidate you had to worry about the most was McCain, who had been a POW.

MAL4PREZ

Sunday, August 8, 2010 11:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
This isn't some nightmare you can wake up from. Damage been done. If TPTB put Obama in office, you think they particularly would care if he was foreign born, you think they'd remove him?

Wishful thinking. At least put stock in realistic options.

Bingo. As someone else pointed out months ago, once he took the oath of office, he became the Prez. Whining about it after the fact is just trying to unring a bell.

Thank you for reminding me about this post. I meant to reply, but my internet access is very limited these days.

Here you go Wulf: read this out loud so maybe the message will get through the cottage cheese between your ears. TPTB who put Obama into office are THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. That's right - a majority of AMERICANS. Even the liberals you hate are fully absolutely Americans, the brown ones, the blacks ones, the golden-skinned as well. The liberals, the hippies. These are 100% Americans, just as much as you and me, and as Obama.

We, the American People, voted for Barack Obama, and therefore he is indeed the President. There was no super secret "powers" behind it.

I have no doubt that some people hate him, and these are also Americans. But they are not the only Americans, and despite for Faux news tells you, they are not even the majority.

Yeah, and Riverlove with her "liberal moral decay".... I can't even reply, I'm too busy laughing! What a dreamer. Well, a denier. Glad you took care of it, Kwicko.

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

KWICKO

Sunday, August 8, 2010 11:52 PM

Quote:

We, the American People, voted for Barack Obama, and therefore he is indeed the President. There was no super secret "powers" behind it.

Also, of note, it did NOT require the Supreme Court to "sELECT" Obama the President, as happened in 2000. And even then, the SCOTUS knew they were doing the dirty, because they insisted in their own ruling that it not be viewed as any kind of precedent!

STORYMARK

Monday, August 9, 2010 3:23 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:

Even with all the hippies, and their signs... I've NEVER seen such anger and disdain for a "president".

That would be because you are oblivious to that which does not fit your world view. And because you likely hang out with numb nuts who loved Dubya, and thus insulated yourself.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

BYTEMITE

Monday, August 9, 2010 3:48 PM

Quote:
TPTB who put Obama into office are THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. That's right - a majority of AMERICANS.

Em, well. The majority DID vote for Obama, so this wasn't a TPTB Supreme Court ruling or anything, but I don't think TPTB are ever synonymous with the American public, and I didn't mean it in that sense.

When I talk about TPTB putting Obama in office, I'm talking about the media campaigns, the making him look good, the propping him up and all that.

Obama was chosen by higher-ups as one of two main candidates for the presidency. Maybe only people in the DNC, maybe by people behind both the DNC and RNC (which I think is the most likely case, but I can't prove it). In any case, now that he's in office, they're not going to pull him out. We're lucky enough that TPTB are still willing to play by the two term limits rule they came up with, they could just drop all pretenses and appoint czars for life with their own Minipax, Miniplenty, Minitrue and Miniluv organized around them. Frankly I wonder why they haven't yet, and the only reasons I can think of is that either it amuses them to let us think we have any measure of control, or it's the only way to get us to buy in and not turn on them. Maybe both.

NIKI2

Monday, August 9, 2010 3:58 PM

Quote:
We're lucky enough that TPTB are still willing to play by the two term limits rule they came up with

Uhhh, you do remember when that came up during Dumbya's second term? Maybe they figured we're not ready for it yet, so they backed off and are just waiting...

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

BYTEMITE

Monday, August 9, 2010 4:07 PM

Quote:
Uhhh, you do remember when that came up during Dumbya's second term? Maybe they figured we're not ready for it yet, so they backed off and are just waiting...

My memory beyond a month or so tends to be lacking. They were considering abandoning this?

This means they're accelerating. They probably thought one perpetual war in the middle east would be enough to make the public so fear the enemy they created that the public would demand permanent lifelong leadership appointments. At least I can be entertained by how dismayed they were once they realized the approval rating could still fall, but I'm less amused by the realization that if Afghanistan and Iraq couldn't accomplish it, they probably think adding another war with Iran, then Pakistan, then China could.

It goes back to what I said. They don't just want to usurp control, they want to have outsmarted everyone in doing so. And they want the reins just handed over to them, because they feel this was always their entitlement. This was why they wanted to crown Washington.

WULFENSTAR

Monday, August 9, 2010 4:10 PM

Again.

If it can be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that Obama is ineligable to be Prez... well then things will really "change", won't they?

WULF for President.

BYTEMITE

Monday, August 9, 2010 4:12 PM

Quote:
well then things will really "change", won't they?

No, they won't, Wulf.

KWICKO

Monday, August 9, 2010 4:15 PM

Apparently the attention span and memory of the American people, as a collective, are about on par with those of a gnat on crack.

The 2-term limit was a direct response to FDR's four terms. There was absolutely nothing in the Constitution that said anything about term limits; prior to FDR, Presidents had just followed Washington's tradition of bowing out after two terms, but it wasn't mandatory.

So the Republicans finally got some power and managed to pass the 25th Amendment, limiting terms to two full terms for the Prez.

Ironically, since then, there have been only a few Presidents who could have won more than two terms, and they were all Republicans, save one possible exception. Eisenhower and Reagan, and (arguably) Clinton. And they talked about doing it back when Reagan was on his way out (of office, I mean, not out of his mind; he was already way beyond that by 1987).

So in their efforts to make sure no Democrats could ever "seize power" again, they shot themselves in the foot. Once in a while, they'd like a do-over and a chance to change that, but it's much, much, MUCH harder to get an Amendment through these days, compared to even a few short decades ago.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

WULFENSTAR

Monday, August 9, 2010 4:16 PM

I can always "hope" for "change".

Again. Wulf for President.

Heh. Wouldn't that be fun?

Or at least interesting?

KWICKO

Monday, August 9, 2010 4:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Again.

If it can be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that Obama is ineligable to be Prez... well then things will really "change", won't they?

WULF for President.

How? And how many times do I need to ask? Explain yourself. What would "change"? What do you think would happen? Would everything that's occurred since January 20, 2009 just magically disappear? Would you get a cosmic Mulligan?

By the way, I'd put a bullet in your giant melon-sized head myself before I'd let you be our "dear leader". Just sayin'. (Now, don't go getting your panties in a twist about that; you've advocated just such a solution many, many, many times here. Seems if you're willing to sling bullets around, you should be willing to catch one now and then, too!)

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

BYTEMITE

Monday, August 9, 2010 4:25 PM

Quote:
Apparently the attention span and memory of the American people, as a collective, are about on par with those of a gnat on crack.

About so, yes, and I've always been particularly deficient in this area. Though I knew about the two term limit being a response to FDR, and it's also true about the Federalists wanting to crown Washington.

I wonder what Frem has to say about the Washington/Cincinnatus thing, beyond the whole native american thing that Frem doesn't look too favourably on. The myth is that everyone wanted Washington to be appointed for life, and that Washington himself stepped down after two terms. I suspect the stresses of government were wearing on Washington and he left for health reasons more than anything else.

Of course, Cincinnatus wasn't so great himself; most people don't hear that Cincinnatus was an important statesmen, and the only reason he became a farmer was because he opposed equal rights for the Roman lower class and upper class.

WULFENSTAR

Monday, August 9, 2010 4:26 PM

Can I ask why Kwick?

What would drive you to try and kill me if I were President?

KWICKO

Monday, August 9, 2010 4:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Can I ask why Kwick?

What would drive you to try and kill me if I were President?

Wulfie, I'm exactly as likely to kill you as you are to kill the current guy in the big office. And my reasons are the same as yours.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

WULFENSTAR

Monday, August 9, 2010 4:49 PM

Well now.

We shall see, won't we?

BYTEMITE

Monday, August 9, 2010 6:20 PM

I recommend that Wulf hire the same guys who create the advertisements for BRAWNDO and Powerthirst for his campaign.

WULFENSTAR

Monday, August 9, 2010 6:24 PM

"Gather your armies."

NIKI2

Monday, August 9, 2010 7:04 PM

Quote:
KENNEBUNKPORT, MAINE — Former President George W. Bush called an impromptu press conference today at the Bush family compound in Maine to reveal he’s flirting with the idea of running for an unprecedented third term as President of the United States.

Appearing undeterred by the presidential term limits outlined in the Twenty-Second Amendment of the Constitution, the forty-third president cited “unfinished business with my arch nemesis Osama Bin Laden” as a primary motive to return to office.

Speaking of “personal and American conquests” Bush said, “In this time of war, America needs a strong, resolute Commander in Chief,” and then offered a familiar line, ”I vow to keep America safe from terrorist attacks and smoke out evil-doers who harbor ill will toward our great nation.”

Leaders from both political parties were “aghast” and “taken completely off-guard” by Bush’s sudden announcement. Republican National Committee Chairman Michael Steele lamented, “I foresee this move rejuvenating our party once the initial shock wears off.” Speaker Nancy Pelosi simply shouted, “Yes!” and pumped her right fist.

When asked how he planned to get around the two-term limit for presidents, Bush said, “I have James Baker, Dick Cheney, and my father finding loopholes in the Constitution that will allow me to return to my rightful spot in the oval office. Barack there is just keepin’ it warm for me.”

Okay, so that's a joke. This wasn't: From the Library of Congress--

Quote:
H.J.RES.24 -- Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the United States to repeal the 22nd amendment to the Constitution. (Introduced in House - IH)

HJ 24 IH

109th CONGRESS

1st Session

H. J. RES. 24
Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the United States to repeal the 22nd amendment to the Constitution.

IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

February 17, 2005
Mr. HOYER (for himself, Mr. BERMAN, Mr. SENSENBRENNER, Mr. SABO, and Mr. PALLONE) introduced the following joint resolution; which was referred to the Committee on the Judiciary

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

JOINT RESOLUTION
Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the United States to repeal the 22nd amendment to the Constitution.

Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled (two-thirds of each House concurring therein), That the following article is proposed as an amendment to the Constitution of the United States, which shall be valid to all intents and purposes as part of the Constitution when ratified by the legislatures of three-fourths of the several States within seven years after the date of its submission for ratification:

`Article --

`The twenty-second article of amendment to the Constitution of the United States is repealed.'.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c109:H.J.RES.24.IH:

It died a quick and painless death, but don't kid yourself...

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

SHINYGOODGUY

Monday, August 9, 2010 7:27 PM

the 'birther' nonsense is actually Lib Dems who are keeping the phony issue alive,to disparage the Tea Party movement, and distract from the real issues.
_________________________________________________

Really!? Reverse psychology? You guys give us way too much credit. That kind of thinking requires actual working brain cells, and I've often heard from you and others that "so-called" Lib-Dems lack in that department.

So.......thank you!? Our diabolical plan worked, but in the end we couldn't pull the wool over your eyes.

Curses, foiled again!

SGG

In the words of our beloved leader, Yosemite Sam:
"I'm a thinking, my head hurts!"

Tawabawho?

KWICKO

Monday, August 9, 2010 8:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
"Gather your armies."

You know that guy got his ass handed to him in the election, right? Apparently he has no armies. Neither do you.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

NIKI2

Monday, August 9, 2010 8:32 PM

Quote:
Lib Dems who are keeping the phony issue alive

It's the only possible response to such idiocy.

We don't need to disparage the Tea Party; they do quite well on your own, don'tcha know.

-----

Aw, Mikey, you took away all my fun...I was gonna remind him of that. Pffft.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

MAL4PREZ

Tuesday, August 10, 2010 2:00 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Quote:
TPTB who put Obama into office are THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. That's right - a majority of AMERICANS.

Em, well. The majority DID vote for Obama, so this wasn't a TPTB Supreme Court ruling or anything, but I don't think TPTB are ever synonymous with the American public, and I didn't mean it in that sense.

Ha! I relied to that "TPTB" thing long after I'd read the post, and somehow got myself thinking it was Wulf who'd said it. My apologies! I would have been less scathing if I'd known I was talking to you. (Which is not something I ought to be proud of, hey? I should reply to what people say, and not what I think of them overall. Hmm. I must ponder the error of my ways...)

But I do hold that Obama was not the party's darling to start with. He got support from lots of the little people - and by support I mean money and publicity. Where he's gone with it can be debated, but part of what I find annoying about the Birther movement is their refusal to admit that Obama was in fact chosen by the voters.

Anyway, do you really think the two term limit rule is in danger?

After reading on through the thread: I see this was discussed.

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

BYTEMITE

Tuesday, August 10, 2010 2:43 PM

It's okay, I didn't read your response as scathing. Internet emotions are hard.

Obama got some grassroots support, but when he started to get momentum, he started getting more special interest and corporate money.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2008/sep/19/john-mc
cain/their-employees-have-donated/

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2007/aug/21/Obama-lobb
y/

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2010/may/24/bp-liked-o
bama-oil-stained-sarah-palins-hands-too/

TPTB will always make sure anyone who's elected is in their pocket, and if they can't get them in their pocket, they will do whatever they can to discredit them.

Obama might not have been a "darling," so maybe my saying he was "chosen" was a bit too strong, but they made sure he would swing their way when it counted. And they pressured him to take on the Clintons to win over Clinton supporters to get him elected. And the Clintons brought in a lot of people into the administration who were part of the Bush administration.

KWICKO

Tuesday, August 10, 2010 3:58 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
It's okay, I didn't read your response as scathing. Internet emotions are hard.

Obama got some grassroots support, but when he started to get momentum, he started getting more special interest and corporate money.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2008/sep/19/john-mc
cain/their-employees-have-donated/

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2007/aug/21/Obama-lobb
y/

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2010/may/24/bp-liked-o
bama-oil-stained-sarah-palins-hands-too/

TPTB will always make sure anyone who's elected is in their pocket, and if they can't get them in their pocket, they will do whatever they can to discredit them.

Obama might not have been a "darling," so maybe my saying he was "chosen" was a bit too strong, but they made sure he would swing their way when it counted. And they pressured him to take on the Clintons to win over Clinton supporters to get him elected. And the Clintons brought in a lot of people into the administration who were part of the Bush administration.

But Byte, TPTB make sure that anyone elected is in their pocket by giving to EVERYONE in the race. People whinge about how "Obama got more BP money than McCain", but they conveniently forget to mention that McCain did indeed get BP money. If Obama got more, it's because every mathematical model said he was the better bet, since he was far more likely to win. Polls are always biased, so you have to go more with the math, like 538.com. If the math says there's a 78% likelihood that Candidate A is going to win, 78% of the money goes to that candidate, and 22% to the rest. That way you're covered, no matter who wins!

Also, bringing Clintonistas into the inner circle in the weeks leading up to the nomination is a savvy political move because it's a nod to your same-party opponents that you're willing to work with them, so it's safe for them to support you. And this kind of move is seen as just such a thing among the followers of one candidate when the other picks up some of their people - it's seen as an unofficial endorsement.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

BYTEMITE

Tuesday, August 10, 2010 4:22 PM

Yeah, but it's still TPTB trying to control the outcome however they can. And they are in control.

The Clintons were a savvy political nod, but also a way to insure what the Bush administrations started would finish. The Clintons are now pretty close with the Bushes, and they know a lot of the same people, which is why I said what I said. The people they know influence policy decisions and their worldviews, that is if they're not out and out being managed by someone with an agenda.

SHINYGOODGUY

Tuesday, August 10, 2010 5:28 PM

quote: Kwicko
_________________________________________________
If the math says there's a 78% likelihood that Candidate A is going to win, 78% of the money goes to that candidate, and 22% to the rest. That way you're covered, no matter who wins!
_________________________________________________

Ding! Ding! Ding! Give that man a Cee-gar!

It is better known as Corporate Math (same guys who, along with Cheney and company, came up with the Charity Handout - otherwise known as the Bailout - and the S&L bailout - wasn't McCain mixed up in that one).

The slight of hand is remarkable. The large corps "hedge" their bets and stack the deck (I knew one day my Vegas vocabulary class would come in handy). Once Obama began to pull away from the mangled bodies of Hilary and Ma' Palin, it was full speed ahead.

This "birther" hiccup is nothing more than smoke and mirrors folks. Vegas isn't the only place where you find slight of hand. Hilary may have started it, but desparate people (Hil could almost taste the White House she was so.....close?) do wacky things in the heat of battle.

To the winner go the spoils. I don't know where that quote is from, but its so true.

It seems to me I recall when, after the 2000 Elections, the Bush-whackers (I just thought of that, just this minute. I'm proud of me ;-)
were making all kinds of noise and telling anyone who bitched about him stealing the election to get over it. 'He's president, ain't shit you can do about it.'

Well, here we are - turnabout is fair play.

BTW the birthers movement came before the Tea Party movement; so no Rappy the Lib-Dems did not come up with the idea to muddy the Tea Party waters (because they didn't exist yet, the Tea Party that is).

I'm sleepy, just got home from work. See you guys later.

SGG

Tawabawho?

NIKI2

Tuesday, August 10, 2010 5:44 PM

Valid point, Shiny...but the righties will come back with "Obama inherited Bush's problems; get over it".

They will never admit to a corollary in any form. Remember, they're convinced Dumbya DID win the election fair and square, so their telling others to get over it is valid, whereas Obama ISN'T an American, so again, THEIR point in pursuing it is valid.

Wait and see...

(and no, I haven't gotten over it. Nothing can be done, obviously, but hey, if it were proven that Dumbya DIDN'T win the election, by their reasoning, does that mean everything that happened the last four years gets to be undone? That's what they want done with Obama... Gawd, don'tcha WISH?!?!)

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

KWICKO

Tuesday, August 10, 2010 6:09 PM

Huh. That's a new twist.

Peekaboo, Jongsie! ;)