NO CHANCE AT A SECOND TERM...NONE

POSTED BY: kaneman
UPDATED: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 17:20
VIEWED: 9275
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KANEMAN

Thursday, July 8, 2010 3:31 AM

With all these debacles our prez has zero chance of winning a second term...Tea parties, black panthers, BP, health-care, Arizona, Missouri, NASA's new mission, The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, a horrendous economy, a broken base. Most non-ideological Americans that actually did vote for this guy. Are lost...they are concerned that they are getting a different agenda than they fell for...They see the great lie. Never to return... His coalition is dead. Carter will look better in history's eye.........Well, it's true.

HKCAVALIER

Thursday, July 8, 2010 3:34 AM

And who's gonna take his place? Who ya gonna blame for the next 4 years?

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

KANEMAN

Thursday, July 8, 2010 4:01 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by HKCavalier:
And who's gonna take his place? Who ya gonna blame for the next 4 years?

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

Hk, hopefully someone that can put this all back together. Really, we are like humpty dumpty.

DMAANLILEILTT

Thursday, July 8, 2010 4:26 AM

he's got TWO YEARS! only a fool would write someone off before the race is half-over.

"I really am ruggedly handsome, aren't I?"

KANEMAN

Thursday, July 8, 2010 4:39 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by dmaanlileiltt:
he's got TWO YEARS! only a fool would write someone off before the race is half-over.

"I really am ruggedly handsome, aren't I?"

I'm a betting man....what do you have?

DMAANLILEILTT

Thursday, July 8, 2010 9:06 AM

i am not a betting man. especially when the event is not in my betting memory range.

and i have cold, hard precidents!!!!

steven bradbury anyone?

"I really am ruggedly handsome, aren't I?"

JONGSSTRAW

Thursday, July 8, 2010 11:09 AM

2012 is irrelevent now.

FREMDFIRMA

Thursday, July 8, 2010 11:55 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by HKCavalier:
And who's gonna take his place? Who ya gonna blame for the next 4 years?

RIVERLOVE

Thursday, July 8, 2010 12:23 PM

Obama won't even be around by 2012. Have you seen him lately? He looks like Mr. Death has staked a claim on him. He's all withered, his clothes are falling off him, and he can't weigh even 100 pounds anymore. It must be hard and tiring work being a complete incompetent, a delusional radical, and an un-remorseful traitor.

MAL4PREZ

Thursday, July 8, 2010 1:31 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Riverlove:
It must be hard and tiring work being a complete incompetent, a delusional radical, and an un-remorseful traitor.

Aren't you the one who said that Palin `08 spelled the end for the Democratic Party? Aren't you the one who celebrated Palin for her gender and skill for talking trash, rather than any kind of policy she brought to the table? Are you not one of those who calls politicians "traitors" purely because they on the "team" that must lose so that you can feel like a winner?

I'd take a bet against you anyday. Um... except that betting on 2012 now is silly, given that sooo much could happen in the next two years. In July 2006 the Reps owned congress and the economy was "booming". (Note the quotes around booming...)

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BYTEMITE

Thursday, July 8, 2010 2:02 PM

It's maybe not so much a question of predicting what will happen, as it is whether he deserves another term.

Considering the Pashtun genocide the Clintons put him on, I'm thinking no. But the gulf spill isn't exactly a crowning moment of awesome for him, either, and he hasn't given up a watt of the unconstitutional presidential powers the office has accumulated over the last decade or so. Even if he turns things around, I consider him a disaster, and fixing things will only happen in a way that furthers the globalist agenda.

Of course, 2012 is just going to bring in another well groomed and obedient lap dog to special interests. I'm not particularly holding any hope for the future.

DREAMTROVE

Thursday, July 8, 2010 2:11 PM

Hmm.

This is curious.

Okay, Ron Paul is going to make a serious stab at 2012. It's possible he can end up as Sarah Palin's running mate. (Palin/Paul '12?)

Obama has lost some support with TPTB, but he still has Cheney and the Neocons (The worst garage band you ever )

So, not sure how this will turn out. I assume Mr. Deficit will stay because he will print new money to buy off the corporates. Why vote for better policy when there's a guy who will hand you a trillion bucks?

I'm not sure republicans will manage a more corrupt platform than that, it might turn out like Dole '96 if the Tea Party goes all third party, which they will when Obama hands them a trillion to. Maybe we should set up to be on the receiving end of that transaction. Of course it's all decided ahead of time, the actual voting is undoubtedly a fraud. Media darlings in major elections always win, and given how often they lose on smaller elections it seems pretty statistically anomalous (Anyone remember anti-incumbency fever?)

(Oh how I wish I was kidding)

RIVERLOVE

Thursday, July 8, 2010 2:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
Quote:
Originally posted by Riverlove:
It must be hard and tiring work being a complete incompetent, a delusional radical, and an un-remorseful traitor.
Aren't you the one who said that Palin `08 spelled the end for the Democratic Party? Aren't you the one who celebrated Palin for her gender and skill for talking trash, rather than any kind of policy she brought to the table? Are you not one of those who calls politicians "traitors" purely because they on the "team" that must lose so that you can feel like a winner?

I'd take a bet against you anyday. Um... except that betting on 2012 now is silly, given that sooo much could happen in the next two years. In July 2006 the Reps owned congress and the economy was "booming". (Note the quotes around booming...)

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That's a great question, and I'll answer it in the grand eloquent style of the Obama Adminstration's Secretary of Propaganda Robert Gibbs: Um, gee, um, I don't recall, um, I'm not sure, um ah, I'll look into it, um, and I'll get back to you on that.

KANEMAN

Thursday, July 8, 2010 2:18 PM

River, That all depends on what the definition of is..is.

RIVERLOVE

Thursday, July 8, 2010 2:25 PM

I forgot that gem Kman. Good to see you here battling the crazies. I was away for a spell, and I'm playing ketchup.

KANEMAN

Thursday, July 8, 2010 2:33 PM

I think you meant catsup....

RIVERLOVE

Thursday, July 8, 2010 2:38 PM

I stand corrected. I'm so damn unworthy!

BYTEMITE

Thursday, July 8, 2010 2:42 PM

The media seems to me like they're grooming Palin, not Paul. But maybe things have changed since I last looked around, and they're not calling him a kook anymore.

I assumed, though, that they were hoping Palin would get so much spotlight that Paul would be drowned out again. They don't seem to like Paul, and that's why I *do*.

Some good news from the polls, though.

Quote:
In the 2009 CPAC Presidential Preference straw poll for the 2012 election, Paul tied 2008 GOP Vice-Presidential candidate Sarah Palin for third place with 13% of the vote, behind fellow former candidate Mitt Romney and Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal.[151] However, in the 2010 CPAC straw poll, he came out on top, decisively winning with 31%, followed distantly by Mitt Romney, Sarah Palin, and Tim Pawlenty of Minnesota, among others. In the 2010 Southern Republican Leadership Conference straw poll, Paul finished second place with 24% of the vote (438 votes), behind only Mitt Romney (with 439 votes). An April 2010 Rasmussen poll found that Ron Paul and President Obama were nearly tied for the 2012 presidential election among likely voters.

At least he'd beat Mitt Romney (gag) and if Obama continues the way he has, maybe we'll get someone with very little special interest attachments into office. Wouldn't that be something.

KANEMAN

Thursday, July 8, 2010 2:44 PM

"The media seems to me like they're grooming Palin, not Paul"

He looks pretty sharp to me. I've never seen a hair out of place on that guy.

JONGSSTRAW

Thursday, July 8, 2010 2:56 PM

Paul and Palin just do not seem to be viable candidates for national office. To get elected you need to be a centrist. Even the "most" liberal member of the Senate, Brock Obama knew that. He ran as a moderate, and basically every moderate thing he ever said has turned out to be a big lie. But he was skillful enough, and 62% of Americans were stupid enough not to see through the sham. Palin is doing well getting other people nominated and perhaps elected. I think that's her strength. As for the media, jeeez, they still hate her guts.

MAL4PREZ

Thursday, July 8, 2010 3:33 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Riverlove:
Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
Aren't you the one who said that Palin `08 spelled the end for the Democratic Party?

That's a great question, and I'll answer it in the grand eloquent style of the Obama Adminstration's Secretary of Propaganda Robert Gibbs: Um, gee, um, I don't recall, um, I'm not sure, um ah, I'll look into it, um, and I'll get back to you on that.

Isn't it great that there's this thing called the internets, and that it's searchable?

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=34673

Said Riverlove on Aug 30, 2008:
"Democrats are putting on a brave face to conceal the fact that they're all shitting their pants. First they only got a modest bump out of their Hallelujah-fest, and now will be facing this remarkable woman. Chicago corrupt, radical socialist Obama, & DC fixture Biden will be ripped to shreds by Palin, and a decent percentage of America's women will fall in love with her when they see what a strong and smart woman looks like. Democrats had one in Hillary, but the Party turned on her, again, and Obama went for a 6-term Senator to lend credibility to his razor-thin resume. Hillary would have won the Presidency as the Dem. candidate I believe, but now their ticket is bass-ackwards. McCain scored a huge knockout blow with this pick. She is a tough and fearless campaigner, and has a good track record of executive and business experience. She's taken on Dems & Repubs before, and triumphed over them...."

BWAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!! A "smart" woman? Sadly, you probably still think that, even after seeing this moron handle hardball questions about newspapers and such.

Yeah, you know how to pick your winners, oh, I mean QUITTERS, don't you Riverlove? You've shown the judgment skills of a doorknob, which makes you a prime example of why all our politic leaders suck: you don't think about and vote based on policy that'd be good for this country. You only root for the downfall of those you've been trained to hate. You might want to look into the source of that training.

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MAL4PREZ

Thursday, July 8, 2010 4:26 PM

Ah - but here's the real goods. Riverlove started a thread called "The Party's Over."

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=34747

"The party's over indeed, for the Democrats that is. Thanks to their rabid legions of defenders of liberalism pre-speech vitriolic attacks against Sarah Palin and her family, they have doomed themselves into extinction.

[snip]

"She's going to be a great campaigner, and will attract millions of new and independent voters to her causes. Her one debate with Biden will be maybe bigger than the 2 Presidential debates. An event of historic importance. The clashing of two worlds in many ways. I wonder what the Jihadist terrorists think of her. And something tells me that the Europeans and world leaders are going to love her too...."

Something tells you? Perhaps you shouldn't listen to The Voices in your head...

You know the definition of madness, right? Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. I wish the blind Palin worshippers would find a new way to pick a candidate. Putting an idiot on a pedestal didn't work with Bush, it won't work with her either.

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NIKI2

Thursday, July 8, 2010 4:36 PM

Interesting reading these first thing this morning. I sat here laughing my head off...just like the hatefest in the other thread: Why bother? There is no communication, no conversing, just hate hate hate and, just exactly as Mal has pointed out, sweeping hatred predicting death and destruction to whichever dem you people hate. No sense to it, no logic, just hate, hate, hate.

Totally ignored is that the last Repub Prez we had almost destroyed the country; you're CONVINCED if some nebulous Republican is voted in, everything will be hunkey-dorey. Sad.

Where's anyone else but the couple of people here capable of talking sense? Maybe in another thread...

Now, sit back and watch the hate come MY way...

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off

KPO

Thursday, July 8, 2010 4:37 PM

Quote:
Ah - but here's the real goods. Riverlove started a thread called "The Party's Over."

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=34747

Ace. I love right-wing predictions!

Do Kaneman.

Heads should roll

NIKI2

Thursday, July 8, 2010 4:54 PM

Yes, they do go off the deep end, don't they? Flat statements--especially those which have been proven patently untrue by fact or history or common sense, seem to be a running theme.

In a thread yesterday, someone called her "RiverKane"...interesting that RiverL shows up all over the place, agreeing with Kane, backing her up, etc., just today. Just sayin'. Lotta hateriots here today, I see. Makes actual conversation pretty impossible.

Wait for it...

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off

KPO

Thursday, July 8, 2010 4:59 PM

Quote:
In a thread yesterday, someone called her "RiverKane"...interesting that RiverL shows up all over the place, agreeing with Kane, backing her up, etc., just today. Just sayin'.

I think it's probably just their herding instinct.

Heads should roll

NIKI2

Thursday, July 8, 2010 5:28 PM

Ahhh, that would explain it. Thank you.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off

WULFENSTAR

Thursday, July 8, 2010 5:34 PM

Are we really starting this again?

Kane=River=Me=Frem=PN=Rap

Are you sure its not just you trying to discredit people by claiming sock puppetry?

Most of those who have been accused, are also the ones who fight with you all the time.

KANEMAN

Thursday, July 8, 2010 6:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:
Quote:
Ah - but here's the real goods. Riverlove started a thread called "The Party's Over."

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=34747

Ace. I love right-wing predictions!

Do Kaneman.

Heads should roll

What? Come-on now Kpo, don't start that. It is a waste of time I am as consistent as they come. I thought we were getting along

NIKI2

Thursday, July 8, 2010 6:36 PM

No...most of those who have been suspected BY ME are ones whose mindset is the same and who are particularly repugnant.

"RiverKane" means as much that they are two peas in a pod as my question about their identities; they are totally interchangeable in their virulence toward others.

PN has a distinct style; you're not usually too nasty; Crappy is nasty but has made a few points with which I agree; this one/these two make it personal almost every time they respond to me or Mike or others.

And no, it's not about "disagreeing" with me, it's about HATRED of me, as reflected in their name calling and visceral vocabulary...or else they hate everyone who disagrees with them equally.

Has nothing to do with disagreement; I have disagreed and agreed with almost everyone here (including Kane just now and you at times); it's how vicious they get about it, and the fact they so cheerfully hurl epithets, rarely anything of substance. Almost identical in both those two, and almost invariably nastier than anyone else.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off

KANEMAN

Thursday, July 8, 2010 6:39 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Yes, they do go off the deep end, don't they? Flat statements--especially those which have been proven patently untrue by fact or history or common sense, seem to be a running theme.

In a thread yesterday, someone called her "RiverKane"...interesting that RiverL shows up all over the place, agreeing with Kane, backing her up, etc., just today. Just sayin'. Lotta hateriots here today, I see. Makes actual conversation pretty impossible.

Wait for it...

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off

Yes Niki2. Why do you think that every person that wants to slap you libs around has to be the same person? We are many. My IP address is shown at all times. I was on with RL this morning. We did not gang up on anyone, we just exchanged pleasantries with one another and debated the spelling of catch up....It was riveting. Wish you could have been there.

KANEMAN

Thursday, July 8, 2010 6:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
No...most of those who have been suspected BY ME are ones whose mindset is the same and who are particularly repugnant.

"RiverKane" means as much that they are two peas in a pod as my question about their identities; they are totally interchangeable in their virulence toward others.

PN has a distinct style; you're not usually too nasty; Crappy is nasty but has made a few points with which I agree; this one/these two make it personal almost every time they respond to me or Mike or others.

And no, it's not about "disagreeing" with me, it's about HATRED of me, as reflected in their name calling and visceral vocabulary...or else they hate everyone who disagrees with them equally.

Has nothing to do with disagreement; I have disagreed and agreed with almost everyone here (including Kane just now and you at times); it's how vicious they get about it, and the fact they so cheerfully hurl epithets, rarely anything of substance. Almost identical in both those two, and almost invariably nastier than anyone else.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off

For the record. I disagree with many people here and do not hurl insults at them. You are correct. I do hate you. You are an arrogant douche who has a habit of starting a post with "...... you are correct". It is that attitude that I like to disrupt. Now my Boy is a different story. He is my grand experiment. A virtual social commentary on the cannibalistic side of man you could say. He is the chosen one. I sensed it the moment I reappeared. By the time I am through with him his soul will be forever blackened. Then I come for you.

MAL4PREZ

Thursday, July 8, 2010 7:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:
Do Kaneman.

Oh, now that could be entertaining....

Maybe sometime. But I don't find Kaneman near as entertaining as I do RiverLove. The Kanester is generally nothing but hot air, like he's here to piss people off more than anything else. RiverLove seems to genuinely believe the stuff she spouts.

I swear, the thread topics pull me in, but what keeps me here are the strange mentalities behind the posts. It's endlessly fascinating.

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KANEMAN

Thursday, July 8, 2010 7:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:
Do Kaneman.
Oh, now that could be entertaining....

Maybe sometime. But I don't find Kaneman near as entertaining as I do RiverLove. The Kanester is generally nothing but hot air, like he's here to piss people off more than anything else. RiverLove seems to genuinely believe the stuff she spouts.

I swear, the thread topics pull me in, but what keeps me here are the strange mentalities behind the posts. It's endlessly fascinating.

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hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

Again. My posts on politics are more consistent than most others. Everyone here knows I am a libertarian and against wars. Why would I keep beating a dead horse? Shitting on the blathering of another is much more effective than spouting off my views........Just one girl's opinion...

MAL4PREZ

Thursday, July 8, 2010 7:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by kaneman:
Shitting on the blathering of another is much more effective than spouting off my views.....

Well, sure. If by "effective" you mean effective at getting you ignored.

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hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

NIKI2

Thursday, July 8, 2010 8:00 PM

Oh goodie, another insult. You are one and the same to me...yes, I saw how you "both" had a lovefest, but it means nothing. Never said everyone who disagrees with me was one person, you two just have such a similar style...vulgar and not even amusing...that you're either brain with two bodies or a sickpuppet. Ooops, 'scuse me, should be a "head" with two bodies; "brain" is an overestimation.

Disagreement is possible without hatred; a concept you are incapable of grasping. Sad to be you.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off

”Niki--condescending arrogant fat old bi-polar hag .... You are an asshole ... one does not need a sockpuppet to tell you to fuck off".... eat shit you big government whore .... I do hate you ... You are an arrogant douche” ...sayeth Kane

...Remember, remember, the ugliest members...

KWICKO

Thursday, July 8, 2010 8:28 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Are we really starting this again?

Kane=River=Me=Frem=PN=Rap

Are you sure its not just you trying to discredit people by claiming sock puppetry?

Most of those who have been accused, are also the ones who fight with you all the time.

You're no Frem. You're not Rap, either. You think deeper than Rap, yet he spells and punctuates marginally better. Frem thinks circles around both of you, but he does that to most of the posters here, myself included.

But Kane and River are absolutely one and the same. Just look at how much time they spend jacking off into each other's mouths.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

WULFENSTAR

Thursday, July 8, 2010 8:32 PM

138 Kwick, 138.

KIRKULES

Thursday, July 8, 2010 8:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
2012 is irrelevent now.

I don't think it's totally irrelevant, but it definitely won't make any difference over the short term. The mess we are in now is to big for any President to dig us out of even with eight years. That said, we've got to start digging somewhere and for me the man for the job is Bobby Jindal.

FREMDFIRMA

Thursday, July 8, 2010 8:59 PM

I'd love to see Alan Grayson/Ron Paul as a ticket - not gonna happen, but I can dream, can't I ?

I mean, they both got on board HR 5353 pretty quick, and despite differences of party, seem to hold common sense above partisan politics, and have actual competence on their side to boot.

One of the issues with Ron Paul is that he is a poor public speaker, despite the CONTENT of his speeches being riveting, his manner and delivery doesn't hook people the way Grayson can, and Ron comes with too goddamn much party baggage due to the threat of his own party misappropriating anything he does and grinding it up for party points instead of helping fix the mess with it.

But Grayson, he's got the fire and the will, but not the experience, and Ron Paul would be an excellent veep to fall back on, as well as a check against naive or idealistic excess on behalf of Grayson, plus both of them can pull heavy support not only from the middle, but also the fanatic red/blue lever pullers, which if carried off well (I would SO steal half of Obamas PR/Internet staff for this, they're good, believe it!) could crush to powder any candidate fielded by either side.

What say you ?

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

KWICKO

Thursday, July 8, 2010 11:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by kaneman:
Yes Niki2. Why do you think that every person that wants to slap you libs around has to be the same person? We are many. My IP address is shown at all times. I was on with RL this morning. We did not gang up on anyone, we just exchanged pleasantries with one another and debated the spelling of catch up....It was riveting. Wish you could have been there.

By the way, you both got "catch up" wrong. So among the other things you're exactly the same at is your stupidity.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

KWICKO

Thursday, July 8, 2010 11:20 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
138 Kwick, 138.

156, Wulf; 156.

MAL4PREZ

Thursday, July 8, 2010 11:22 PM

To continue my tangent... I've been looking over some of the old threads (circa Sept 2008) and it's interesting stuff. Mostly, I have to say kudos to Jongsstraw. What a change! I hadn't realized how much. From what I've seen of him lately, he's held onto his conservative principles but gotten so much more open to conversation than he was 2 years ago. That's cool. We should all be more like him.

But whatever happened to Finn? I haven't seen him around lately.

As for Ron Paul, there's some of his ideas I absolutely love, but when it comes to the details I don't think he's realistic. I hope his voice stays active, especially about cutting back the military, but I don't think he'll ever get the top office. The closer he gets, the more attention his more looney ideas will get. (Anti-evolution. Really? Apparently.)

I wish we had another FDR, a champion of the people to cut back the powers of the corporations. Failing that, as much as I disagree with some of the past year, I think Obama is the best candidate for 2012. The flaws in his presidency are flaws in the system more than things I can blame him for directly, and at least he seems open to changing the system.

We'll see how the next 2 years go.

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

KWICKO

Thursday, July 8, 2010 11:23 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by kaneman:

For the record. I disagree with many people here and do not hurl insults at them. You are correct. I do hate you. You are an arrogant douche who has a habit of starting a post with "...... you are correct". It is that attitude that I like to disrupt. Now my Boy is a different story. He is my grand experiment. A virtual social commentary on the cannibalistic side of man you could say. He is the chosen one. I sensed it the moment I reappeared. By the time I am through with him his soul will be forever blackened. Then I come for you.

Keep livin' the dream, Shabbydoll!

KWICKO

Thursday, July 8, 2010 11:26 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

I'd love to see Alan Grayson/Ron Paul as a ticket - not gonna happen, but I can dream, can't I ?

I mean, they both got on board HR 5353 pretty quick, and despite differences of party, seem to hold common sense above partisan politics, and have actual competence on their side to boot.

One of the issues with Ron Paul is that he is a poor public speaker, despite the CONTENT of his speeches being riveting, his manner and delivery doesn't hook people the way Grayson can, and Ron comes with too goddamn much party baggage due to the threat of his own party misappropriating anything he does and grinding it up for party points instead of helping fix the mess with it.

But Grayson, he's got the fire and the will, but not the experience, and Ron Paul would be an excellent veep to fall back on, as well as a check against naive or idealistic excess on behalf of Grayson, plus both of them can pull heavy support not only from the middle, but also the fanatic red/blue lever pullers, which if carried off well (I would SO steal half of Obamas PR/Internet staff for this, they're good, believe it!) could crush to powder any candidate fielded by either side.

What say you ?

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

I'm in. I have some issues with Dr. Paul (for one, the idea that his wife would serve fish sticks at every state dinner!), but I could vote for a Paul/Grayson ticket.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

KWICKO

Thursday, July 8, 2010 11:27 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
To continue my tangent... I've been looking over some of the old threads (circa Sept 2008) and it's interesting stuff. Mostly, I have to say kudos to Jongsstraw. What a change! I hadn't realized how much. From what I've seen of him lately, he's held onto his conservative principles but gotten so much more open to conversation than he was 2 years ago. That's cool. We should all be more like him.

But whatever happened to Finn? I haven't seen him around lately.

As for Ron Paul, there's some of his ideas I absolutely love, but when it comes to the details I don't think he's realistic. I hope his voice stays active, especially about cutting back the military, but I don't think he'll ever get the top office. The closer he gets, the more attention his more looney ideas will get. (Anti-evolution. Really? Apparently.)

I wish we had another FDR, a champion of the people to cut back the powers of the corporations. Failing that, as much as I disagree with some of the past year, I think Obama is the best candidate for 2012. The flaws in his presidency are flaws in the system more than things I can blame him for directly, and at least he seems open to changing the system.

We'll see how the next 2 years go.

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

Finn was in "military intelligence", allegedly (I know, oxymoron that that job description is...); he seemed to vanish pretty quickly about January 21st, 2009. ;)

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

DREAMTROVE

Friday, July 9, 2010 12:09 AM

I've considered Kane as River's gay lover actually. Anyone remember Pirate Jenny?

ETA: Mike, sad that. Oh, and I used to assume Rap was a defense contractor, but MI is a pretty big employer in his neck of the woods, so I moved him over to that corner.

138? 156? I'm lost.

FREMDFIRMA

Friday, July 9, 2010 12:16 AM

FDR my ass, I say we clone Eisenhower!

Then clone Smedley Butler and stick HIM in as veep, and watch the pentagon piss themselves when Ike puts him in charge of cutting the military budget.

And isn't THAT a nice vision to install in the heads to our military racketeers to carry into their nightmares, ole gimlet eye comin for their porkbarrel, with a chainsaw.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

KIRKULES

Friday, July 9, 2010 12:25 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:

Finn was in "military intelligence", allegedly (I know, oxymoron that that job description is...); he seemed to vanish pretty quickly about January 21st, 2009. ;)

Judging by his knowledge of fluid dynamics and engineering he most likely worked for the military space program which is mostly intelligence related I'd bet. Doubt his work as an engineer gave him any reason to be here in a official capacity. I think he just got bored of arguing with his intellectual inferiors.

DREAMTROVE

Friday, July 9, 2010 1:15 AM

I would agree re Ike except I've just been digging into this nuclear testing stuff. How about TR? or JQA?

RAHLMACLAREN

Friday, July 9, 2010 1:42 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by kaneman:
With all these debacles our prez has zero chance of winning a second term...Tea parties, black panthers, BP, health-care, Arizona, Missouri, NASA's new mission, The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, a horrendous economy, a broken base.

*tries to remember the last two years: failed*

Besides tornados and the National League losing the All-Star Game, again

, what happened in Missouri?

--------------------------------------------------
Find here the Serenity you seek. -Tara Maclay

KWICKO

Friday, July 9, 2010 1:49 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kirkules:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:

Finn was in "military intelligence", allegedly (I know, oxymoron that that job description is...); he seemed to vanish pretty quickly about January 21st, 2009. ;)

Judging by his knowledge of fluid dynamics and engineering he most likely worked for the military space program which is mostly intelligence related I'd bet. Doubt his work as an engineer gave him any reason to be here in a official capacity. I think he just got bored of arguing with his intellectual inferiors.

He sure did seem to get tied into intellectual knots by his "inferiors" an awful lot...

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

KWICKO

Friday, July 9, 2010 1:53 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by RahlMaclaren:
Quote:
Originally posted by kaneman:
With all these debacles our prez has zero chance of winning a second term...Tea parties, black panthers, BP, health-care, Arizona, Missouri, NASA's new mission, The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, a horrendous economy, a broken base.

*tries to remember the last two years: failed*

Besides tornados and the National League losing the All-Star Game, again, what happened in Missouri?

All I can think is that Kit Bond quit, and a democrat (Robin Carnahan, if that last name rings any bells) is poised to actually pick up a Senate seat this November, much to the chagrin of the Republican party. I'm not sure how that figures to be a disaster for Obama, though...

KWICKO

Friday, July 9, 2010 1:55 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

FDR my ass, I say we clone Eisenhower!

Then clone Smedley Butler and stick HIM in as veep, and watch the pentagon piss themselves when Ike puts him in charge of cutting the military budget.

And isn't THAT a nice vision to install in the heads to our military racketeers to carry into their nightmares, ole gimlet eye comin for their porkbarrel, with a chainsaw.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

Fuck it - if we've got Smedley, we don't need Ike! Let's have a Paul/Grayson ticket with Butler as SecDef!

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

KANEMAN

Friday, July 9, 2010 2:25 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:
Originally posted by kaneman:
Yes Niki2. Why do you think that every person that wants to slap you libs around has to be the same person? We are many. My IP address is shown at all times. I was on with RL this morning. We did not gang up on anyone, we just exchanged pleasantries with one another and debated the spelling of catch up....It was riveting. Wish you could have been there.

By the way, you both got "catch up" wrong. So among the other things you're exactly the same at is your stupidity.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

Lesson 3) pass! Comprehension is huge. She wrote Nice to "ketchup"...I wrote you mean "Catsup"....That you comment that I posted our exchange was about "catch up" and we both are stupid, shows that you are turning into Kaneman. I am beginning to think my transformation of your mind into mush is easier than I thought. Your comprehension is shot......Come to me Boy....Come. Revel in the slug....If you think we misspelled "catch up" as "ketchup" and then "catsup"....you are an easy mind control. I look forward to our time together....

KANEMAN

Friday, July 9, 2010 2:31 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
I've considered Kane as River's gay lover actually. Anyone remember Pirate Jenny?

ETA: Mike, sad that. Oh, and I used to assume Rap was a defense contractor, but MI is a pretty big employer in his neck of the woods, so I moved him over to that corner.

138? 156? I'm lost.

Dreamtrove, I happen to like your style. I like most of your views and respect your civility. (how is that for irony?).....you are forgiven.

RAHLMACLAREN

Friday, July 9, 2010 2:54 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
All I can think is that Kit Bond quit, and a democrat (Robin Carnahan, if that last name rings any bells) is poised to actually pick up a Senate seat this November, much to the chagrin of the Republican party. I'm not sure how that figures to be a disaster for Obama, though...

*remembers what happened to a Carnahan (my Governor) ten years ago*

Oh crap. I hope she avoids all air travel.

--------------------------------------------------
Find here the Serenity you seek. -Tara Maclay

KWICKO

Friday, July 9, 2010 3:30 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
I've considered Kane as River's gay lover actually. Anyone remember Pirate Jenny?

ETA: Mike, sad that. Oh, and I used to assume Rap was a defense contractor, but MI is a pretty big employer in his neck of the woods, so I moved him over to that corner.

138? 156? I'm lost.

Inside joke.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

KWICKO

Friday, July 9, 2010 3:35 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by RahlMaclaren:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
All I can think is that Kit Bond quit, and a democrat (Robin Carnahan, if that last name rings any bells) is poised to actually pick up a Senate seat this November, much to the chagrin of the Republican party. I'm not sure how that figures to be a disaster for Obama, though...

*remembers what happened to a Carnahan (my Governor) ten years ago*

Oh crap. I hope she avoids all air travel.

Yes, THAT Carnahan. He was her father. Mel, the man who beat incumbent John Ashcroft, even though Mel happened to be DEAD at the time! Boy, that's gotta be humbling, y'know? Ol' Mel turned out to be pretty spry for a dead fella.

But I'm with you - I hope she eschews air travel, and I still don't know what the monumental disaster Obama experienced in Missouri was... Maybe it's one of those Republican urban legends, like Reagan's mythical "welfare queen".

KANEMAN

Friday, July 9, 2010 3:50 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
I've considered Kane as River's gay lover actually. Anyone remember Pirate Jenny?

ETA: Mike, sad that. Oh, and I used to assume Rap was a defense contractor, but MI is a pretty big employer in his neck of the woods, so I moved him over to that corner.

138? 156? I'm lost.

Inside joke.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

Boy....watch your tongue. I am watching..

--------------------------------------------------

RIVERLOVE.."I forgot that gem Kman. Good to see you here battling the crazies. I was away for a spell, and I'm playing ketchup"

KANEMAN.."RIVERLOVE I think you meant catsup:

Kwicko.."By the way, you both got "catch up" wrong. So among the other things you're exactly the same at is your stupidity".

TELL ME THIS BOY IS NOT DUMB....My work here will be short lived....

NIKI2

Friday, July 9, 2010 6:08 PM

Alan Grayson/Ron Paul—oh, gawd, Frem, we’re allowed to dream, aren’t we? That’s the first ticket I’ve seen that would be FUN—just watching the campaign would be a ball by itself! Paul couldn’t take Prez, you’re right—he’s got no charisma. But Grayson would make a fascinating candidate, and gawd, he’d get in SO much trouble for telling it like it is!

I agree with everything you said, and can you only imagine what they’d do to this limping country, not to mention the LEGISLATURE! Gaw it would be fun!

And I agree on every point about Paul keeping Grayson in line, etc. Thank you; now I have something to dream about in my sad hours watching what the Repubs put up...sigh...

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off

KPO

Sunday, July 11, 2010 3:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by kaneman:
Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:
Quote:
Ah - but here's the real goods. Riverlove started a thread called "The Party's Over."

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=34747

Ace. I love right-wing predictions!

Do Kaneman.

Heads should roll

What? Come-on now Kpo, don't start that. It is a waste of time I am as consistent as they come.

I'm sure you are...

I like people's predictions because they are a logical extension into the future of that person's worldview: their news sources, etc. When you predict the future you stick your neck out, and your worldview as well. If your prediction turns out to be ridiculous, it shows that you were out of touch with reality in the first place.

So it's not about consistency, more about buying into a completely partisan interpretation of reality, and then sticking your neck out based on your 'understanding' of the world...

Maybe you're not as good as (the heroic) Riverlove, in this respect. But I'll take your bet on Obama not winning a second term - what odds will you give me?

Heads should roll

NIKI2

Sunday, July 11, 2010 3:51 PM

Along those lines, KPO--and I fully agree--did you catch the Bill Maher rif on that concept? It's not just our beloved RWAs who are given to such things...

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off

KPO

Sunday, July 11, 2010 3:57 PM

Yep.

Some soul-searching in those right-wing think tanks is long overdue...

One would've thought.

Heads should roll

KWICKO

Sunday, July 11, 2010 8:15 PM

I'd say Obama at least has a CHANCE at a second term. The premise of this thread is that he has "NO CHANCE... NONE". As in, ZERO chance. If he's alive and not in prison or impeached, he's got a chance.

You sound like you don't think he'll even run, or that he'll get not a single vote if he does. Is that what you're saying, RiverKaneFly6213?

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

KANEMAN

Sunday, July 11, 2010 9:26 PM

No. He may run, however he has about as much of a chance of winning as you do of making me believe you are not gay...Thank you

KWICKO

Sunday, July 11, 2010 10:49 PM

The things you choose to believe which are wrong are completely irrelevant to me. You've already proven to me that you have no reasoning skills, no intellectual integrity, and no sanity, so of course I can't expect you to reach logical conclusions. So please, go on thinking whatever you'd like; it is of no consequence to me.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

NIKI2

Sunday, July 11, 2010 11:28 PM

I would say to her "The things you choose to believe which are wrong are myriad Where did we pick up this sad, sick individual, and how do we avoid her? She's really awful...I honestly do see nothing but trolling...

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off

KANEMAN

Monday, July 12, 2010 7:49 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
I would say to her "The things you choose to believe which are wrong are myriad Where did we pick up this sad, sick individual, and how do we avoid her? She's really awful...I honestly do see nothing but trolling...

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off

You only see what you want to see. See, some people see a steaming pile off shit, where I see a steaming pile of fecal material(know what I'm saying?) It's too bad. Going through life with blinders on has to be tough. My heart goes out to you Niki2. I wish I could help you see things from a different perspective. Now go take a laxative, and get back to your imaginary life, you constipated whore.

Oh,shit for brains...."Where did you pick me up?"...I've been here for years before you even knew this place existed and I'll be here years after I chase you outta here. Stop drooling now. I'm sure all of this talk of shit and laxatives is making you hungry.

QUESTIONABLEQUESTIONALITY

Monday, July 12, 2010 1:33 PM

Wow, you people are brutal. Take a chill pill guys

HKCAVALIER

Monday, July 12, 2010 2:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by kaneman:
With all these debacles our prez has zero chance of winning a second term...Tea parties, black panthers, BP, health-care, Arizona, Missouri, NASA's new mission, The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, a horrendous economy, a broken base. Most non-ideological Americans that actually did vote for this guy. Are lost...they are concerned that they are getting a different agenda than they fell for...They see the great lie. Never to return... His coalition is dead. Carter will look better in history's eye.........Well, it's true.

Kaneman, I really think you're gonna have to come up with a stronger argument than this.

Tea parties? Tiny attention seeking niche voting block. Every advance they make is marred by the latest racist and/or militant statement from one of its "leaders." I'd say Obama, with all his faults, still comes out ahead when we look at all the tea party's faults. Not gonna get him thrown out of office before they shoot themselves in the foot, figuratively, of course.

Black Panthers? Nonstarter. Lunatic fringe is lunatic fringe. If Pastor "God DAAAAAMMMMNNN America" didn't keep Obama out of office, the Panthers surely won't get him thrown out. Come election time, forgotten.

BP? That's looking to be the gift that keeps on giving, for several terms to come. Put a Republican in office and see the problem get even worse. Not gonna get Obama thrown out.

Healthcare is not gonna get Obama thrown out of office.

Arizona? I think your prediction is way off here. In the fullness of time, Arizona is just gonna look worse and worse until its nasty little tantrum of a law gets taken off the books.

NASA's new mission? It's a toothless PR stunt, and toothless PR stunts don't get anyone thrown out of office.

The two wars? How exactly are they gonna get Obama thrown out of office? You see Sarah Palin running on a "Cut & Run" platform?

The Economy? This here is prolly your best argument of the bunch, prolly worth all the others put together plus a sex scandal. Thing is, in order to defeat Obama on this one, the opposition is gonna have to come of with actual ideas other than "the Bush Tax cuts!"

A broken base? Huh?

So really you got one solid debacle here and 9 nonstarters, but even if all of these things could be turned into solid anti-Obama talking points in the upcoming election, the opposition are missing one kinda important thing: a single viable candidate.

Sarah is unelectable to national office. Yes, the base loves her, she's got the Republicans-that-Vote-with-their-Dicks vote sewn up, but other than that? Americans actually believe she said "I can see Russia from my house!" (Just so you know: she didn't, that was Tina Fey.)

Mitt Romney will never, ever be President, and he will poison any ticket that takes him on as VP. The religious right would sooner have their daughters marry Muslims than elect a Mormon. There's a reason he won election in one of the most liberal states in the Union.

Maybe, just maybe, if things continue to get exponentially worse on all fronts over the next 2 years, a Grayson/Paul ticket could capture the imagination of enough folk from left and right to mean something, but barring that, as far as I can see: ya got nothin'.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

NIKI2

Monday, July 12, 2010 3:46 PM

Excellent, concise and eloquent rebuttal, Cav. I admire your ability to put things so articulately. I agree with every point.

Question; yes, it can get brutal down here, you're right. Unfortunately, we have several people who have no self-control whatsoever, and probably only come here to vent their nastiness and get a rise out of others. Equally unfortunately, some of us can get dragged down to their level, which merely gives them the attention they seek. It's a waste of time and effort either way, but it's the way it is here, and actually on other sites it can be worse. RWE is where you have to have a thick skin if you want to survive. I take your point, however, and shouldn't let them get to me; I'm going to try to do so less in future, as it does notoby any good and just gives them the excuse to go lower still. Thanx for mentioning it.

So from now on, I'm going to try and remember

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off

QUESTIONABLEQUESTIONALITY

Monday, July 12, 2010 5:11 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by HKCavalier:
Quote:
Originally posted by kaneman:
With all these debacles our prez has zero chance of winning a second term...Tea parties, black panthers, BP, health-care, Arizona, Missouri, NASA's new mission, The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, a horrendous economy, a broken base. Most non-ideological Americans that actually did vote for this guy. Are lost...they are concerned that they are getting a different agenda than they fell for...They see the great lie. Never to return... His coalition is dead. Carter will look better in history's eye.........Well, it's true.
Kaneman, I really think you're gonna have to come up with a stronger argument than this.

Tea parties? Tiny attention seeking niche voting block. Every advance they make is marred by the latest racist and/or militant statement from one of its "leaders." I'd say Obama, with all his faults, still comes out ahead when we look at all the tea party's faults. Not gonna get him thrown out of office before they shoot themselves in the foot, figuratively, of course.

Black Panthers? Nonstarter. Lunatic fringe is lunatic fringe. If Pastor "God DAAAAAMMMMNNN America" didn't keep Obama out of office, the Panthers surely won't get him thrown out. Come election time, forgotten.

BP? That's looking to be the gift that keeps on giving, for several terms to come. Put a Republican in office and see the problem get even worse. Not gonna get Obama thrown out.

Healthcare is not gonna get Obama thrown out of office.

Arizona? I think your prediction is way off here. In the fullness of time, Arizona is just gonna look worse and worse until its nasty little tantrum of a law gets taken off the books.

NASA's new mission? It's a toothless PR stunt, and toothless PR stunts don't get anyone thrown out of office.

The two wars? How exactly are they gonna get Obama thrown out of office? You see Sarah Palin running on a "Cut & Run" platform?

The Economy? This here is prolly your best argument of the bunch, prolly worth all the others put together plus a sex scandal. Thing is, in order to defeat Obama on this one, the opposition is gonna have to come of with actual ideas other than "the Bush Tax cuts!"

A broken base? Huh?

So really you got one solid debacle here and 9 nonstarters, but even if all of these things could be turned into solid anti-Obama talking points in the upcoming election, the opposition are missing one kinda important thing: a single viable candidate.

Sarah is unelectable to national office. Yes, the base loves her, she's got the Republicans-that-Vote-with-their-Dicks vote sewn up, but other than that? Americans actually believe she said "I can see Russia from my house!" (Just so you know: she didn't, that was Tina Fey.)

Mitt Romney will never, ever be President, and he will poison any ticket that takes him on as VP. The religious right would sooner have their daughters marry Muslims than elect a Mormon. There's a reason he won election in one of the most liberal states in the Union.

Maybe, just maybe, if things continue to get exponentially worse on all fronts over the next 2 years, a Grayson/Paul ticket could capture the imagination of enough folk from left and right to mean something, but barring that, as far as I can see: ya got nothin'.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

I'm going to agree with Kaneman on this. I was just posting in the other thread about not underestimating Palin. Now I do not think she will run, but I do believe she will sway many people. The proof is in the early primaries.

All the other points Kaneman was making don't seem that important taken one by one, however when this is all accumulated I fear it will have a huge effect against us in 2012. I think the meat of what Kaneman is saying is already showing up in every poll I have read. So, to just dismiss it as a small group is naive and detrimental to our cause. What

SIGNYM

Monday, July 12, 2010 5:25 PM

I have to say that from a progressive's POV (which Kaneman wouldn't know the first thing about!) Obama IS a disappointment.

I did make a point, a few weeks ago, to think about whether Obama really was better than Bush.

For sure, Bush took gold and spun it into shit. But Obama has not taken that shit and turned into straw... He is far too committed to the status quo and has not solved the fundamental problems of the economy. Instead, he's gotten into bed with the oil companies, insurance companies, bankers, and internationals.

Obama took the public option off the table when public opinion was 60% for; pushed us all into the maw of the insurances and now my rates are going up 18% this year! His finance reform is a joke; he has NOT put any effective controls on the kind of slippery dealings that collapsed the system to begin with. He expanded the war in Afghanistan and has not yet given up the powers of the Imperial Presidency.

The only thing that would induce me to vote for Obama again is that the Republicans are so much worse.

There is one more thing that you all have to realize about Palin... the people who vote for her are not voting for her because of her smarts or her policies. They are joining a cult of personality, just like the cult that voted for Reagan and Bush. Their reasons for voting may look stupid to us, but there are a lot of people who respond emotionally, not intellectually, and they will forgive ... no, they will embrace... whatever lunacy Sarah spews because that is the part of her personality that they love and identify with: mindless tantrums and baseless braggadocio. She is as batshit as they are and they love her for it. Don't underestimate that fraction of America that thinks with its lizard-brain.

KWICKO

Monday, July 12, 2010 5:44 PM

Quote:

I'm going to agree with Kaneman on this.

Just imagine my surprise! ;)

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

SIGNYM

Monday, July 12, 2010 5:50 PM

KWICKO: Heh!

FREMDFIRMA

Monday, July 12, 2010 5:55 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by HKCavalier:
Mitt Romney will never, ever be President, and he will poison any ticket that takes him on as VP. The religious right would sooner have their daughters marry Muslims than elect a Mormon. There's a reason he won election in one of the most liberal states in the Union.

So long as there's a single voice alive which can link his finances to the hellcamps, ANY political campaign of his is gonna be dead in the water before it even gets off the ground, cause while Mormons got their flaws, they do love children, and his involvement with the Sembler-Lichfield empire will turn them on him the moment it's proven to em.

And, of course, now that their empire is crumbling, that has had a brutal impact on his political and financial support, and good riddance to it.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

KANEMAN

Monday, July 12, 2010 6:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

I'm going to agree with Kaneman on this.

Just imagine my surprise! ;)

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

Hilarious that if anyone agrees with me they are a sockpuppet...You are an idiot. Go on and make more enemies.....And for the record Its tag is keep it shiny like a gold bracelet....Enough said. Try again

HKCAVALIER

Monday, July 12, 2010 6:27 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by QuestionableQuestionality:
I'm going to agree with Kaneman on this. I was just posting in the other thread about not underestimating Palin. Now I do not think she will run, but I do believe she will sway many people. The proof is in the early primaries.

Hi QQ,

I was speaking of Palin as a candidate, specifically in the context of the premise of this thread, that Obama has no chance of a second term. Obama isn't like a tv show, he cannot simply be cancelled because people don't like him and the networks just fill his time slot with reruns and reality shows. Obama needs a credible opponent, if he is to lose the Presidency. And I simply do not see such an individual on the political scene.

Palin is a force, certainly, but as far as I can see she will simply be a divisive side-show unless she can be put to use by a strong candidate. McCain tried to put her to use, but he was not a strong candidate, particularly at that moment, and he staked his entire campaign on her and she was not up to the task. I don't see her ever being ready for that kind of leadership.

Quote:
All the other points Kaneman was making don't seem that important taken one by one, however when this is all accumulated I fear it will have a huge effect against us in 2012. I think the meat of what Kaneman is saying is already showing up in every poll I have read. So, to just dismiss it as a small group is naive and detrimental to our cause. What we should be doing is putting pressure on Obama to return to the center. I believe he is way too left and that is not what I voted for.

I'm going to need a lot more context from you if I'm to understand your idea that we need to pressure Obama to "return to the center."

The Tea Party does not represent the center, their opposition to Obama is a thoroughly far right opposition.

The Black Panthers, I can see how folk might consider them "far left" but they in no way represent Obama's values or platform.

Obama's failure to lead on the BP spill is not due to his being too far left. His failure is a very centrist failure of trusting the private sector and trying to please as many interests as possible.

Obama's healthcare plan is the Republican plan of 15 years ago with a new coat o' blue paint.

Arizona is a far, far right attack on the Obama admin--and again, Obama seems to be taking a centrist, please as many interests as possible approach.

NASA? Neither left, right, nor center. Will be forgotten before the election.

The two wars? My god, hard to imagine how much more hawkish Obama would have to be to please "the right" on that one!

I don't know what a "centrist" policy would look like on the economy, if it doesn't look exactly like Obama's wishy-washy performance thus far.

So, you say we need to move him more to the center and I see the bulk of his insufficiencies flowing from his desire to please too many people too much of the time, as if he's campaigning for the independent vote with every political move he makes. From where I sit, his desire to be the Reagan Democrat President has paralyzed him in the center of our currently far-right skewed political landscape.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

MAL4PREZ

Monday, July 12, 2010 7:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

I'm going to agree with Kaneman on this.

Just imagine my surprise! ;)

You think so too? I wasn't going to say anything because I figure maybe River is trying yet another start, but this time with a kinder tone. I'd support that.

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KWICKO

Monday, July 12, 2010 7:29 PM

M4P: It *IS* River6213; it's also Kane. And RiverLove. And ShadowFly. And who knows who else?

The thing that gave it away for me was that the account was created today, and the ONLY posts QQ has made have been to agree with Kaney, and the ONLY place it's posted has been in RWED. Obviously SOMEBODY's sockpuppet, it would seem. I've never seen anyone discover this place because of their love of all things Firefly, and then ONLY come into the RWED area first thing.

RiverKaney, did you think for a moment that I don't really care how many internet "enemies" I have? It concerns me even less when at least 5 of those "enemies" are one person, who is utterly powerless to touch me in any way, shape, or form.

Or did that just not ever occur to you? Go ahead; be my enemy. Let it consume your life. Follow me around posting "but your gay" after every single thing I say, because that absolutely makes you seem rational and reasonable. Go for it. Knock yourself right out. What are you going to do about it? What CAN you do about it? Shun me?

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

KWICKO

Monday, July 12, 2010 7:31 PM

Quote:
Posted by HKC:

The two wars? My god, hard to imagine how much more hawkish Obama would have to be to please "the right" on that one!

Right. If Palin is going to chide Obama for "two wars", she'll be sure to throw the word "ONLY" into that speech before the words "two wars".

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

MAL4PREZ

Monday, July 12, 2010 7:47 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
M4P: It *IS* River6213; it's also Kane. And RiverLove. And ShadowFly. And who knows who else?

The thing that gave it away for me was that the account was created today, and the ONLY posts QQ has made have been to agree with Kaney, and the ONLY place it's posted has been in RWED.

And the posting style is much like RiverLove, with a kinder tone that I could see her trying after she's been abraded so much lately for being an ass.

Really, I do like to see her trying. It'd be nice if she'd give up the Kaneman persona, the one she must have invented for being a blatant jerk. At least Shadowfly has gone down. (Likely after she had that long weird fight-thread with herself. Remember that?)

It really is sad. I remember having some chats with River6213 before she went bonkers. She's not a bad person, just unhappy. Part of me figures: if playing with her many sockpuppets here helps her stay balanced in real life, then why not? If only she wouldn't go over the edge and get so damned mean.

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QUESTIONABLEQUESTIONALITY

Monday, July 12, 2010 7:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
M4P: It *IS* River6213; it's also Kane. And RiverLove. And ShadowFly. And who knows who else?

The thing that gave it away for me was that the account was created today, and the ONLY posts QQ has made have been to agree with Kaney, and the ONLY place it's posted has been in RWED. Obviously SOMEBODY's sockpuppet, it would seem. I've never seen anyone discover this place because of their love of all things Firefly, and then ONLY come into the RWED area first thing.

RiverKaney, did you think for a moment that I don't really care how many internet "enemies" I have? It concerns me even less when at least 5 of those "enemies" are one person, who is utterly powerless to touch me in any way, shape, or form.

Or did that just not ever occur to you? Go ahead; be my enemy. Let it consume your life. Follow me around posting "but your gay" after every single thing I say, because that absolutely makes you seem rational and reasonable. Go for it. Knock yourself right out. What are you going to do about it? What CAN you do about it? Shun me?

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

Wrong mister. I have posted in General discussion imponderables: special favor today thank you. The only reason that I posted in these threads is because I like politics and these threads were interesting to me. That I happen to think Palin is a force somehow equates me to being a sockpuppet tells me a lot about you. Paranoid much? I also went back through some of these older threads and in my opinion you are as bad as she is.....Thank you for the warm welcome. I'll stay in General discussions. This is not worth my time.

WULFENSTAR

Monday, July 12, 2010 7:51 PM

Ok, I want to play...

Who is MY sockpuppet? Am I the sockpuppet of someone else?

Who wants to be my sockpuppet?

OUT2THEBLACK

Monday, July 12, 2010 8:10 PM

WULFENSTAR

Monday, July 12, 2010 8:11 PM

Out:

Amen.

ETA: I still dont get how these types of people (Libs, progs, whatever) EVER came to know Firefly/Serenity.

The idea of being free to go your own way, never having to depend on anyone, never being under the boot of any government... these things are antithema to the typical lib.

They are more Alliance/Yankee. So whats the deal?

JONGSSTRAW

Monday, July 12, 2010 8:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Ok, I want to play...

Who is MY sockpuppet? Am I the sockpuppet of someone else?

Who wants to be my sockpuppet?

Sung by Marcie Blane, circa 1962:

You're not a kid anymore
You're not a kid anymore

When people ask of me
What do you want to be
Now that you're not a kid anymore

I know just what to say
I answer right away
There's just one thing I'm wishing for

I wanna be Sock Puppet
I wanna be Sock Puppet
That's the most important thing to me

And if I was Sock Puppet
If I was Sock Puppet
What a grateful thankful Sockpuppet I'd be

KWICKO

Monday, July 12, 2010 9:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Out:

Amen.

Yeah, your boy Dubya sure did a bang-up job on that whole "liberty" thing, didn't he?

MAL4PREZ

Monday, July 12, 2010 9:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
ETA: I still dont get how these types of people (Libs, progs, whatever) EVER came to know Firefly/Serenity.

The idea of being free to go your own way, never having to depend on anyone, never being under the boot of any government... these things are antithema to the typical lib.

Ahh, if only. Never to have folks tell me what I can do with my body, or who I can marry, or what I should be doing with my Sunday mornings if I'm a REAL American. To never be forced to contract with ONE cable company or ONE oil supplier or ONE bank or ONE hardware store because those are the only options I have left, given the "free" market that the corporate-bought politicians have let take over...

Anyhow, I'm not surprised that you don't get why anyone who doesn't think exactly like you would like Firefly. After all, you wear some pretty heavy black and white googles. Anything you don't like, you label "liberal" whether it fits or not, whether it's realistic or not.

If you'll try taking those blinders off for a second, you'll note that Joss's fictional world was not so clean. The Alliance govt of itself was not evil. Without it, you had slavery, rich jerks shooting up a houseful of kind-hearted whores and taking their babies, local crime lords stealing foodstuffs without paying up fair and square, and let's not forget Niska doing as he pleased.

Blue Sun, the corporation that got too much autonomy and power from the govt, was the true evil in the show. Looking at the real world's politics, it's not hard for me to see which side and which news channels are most active in defending corporate power. Politicians on the right are primarily concerned with the welfare of those who make $250,000 or more, and they don't give a shit about the poor.

The neo-con right likes to jaw about their sacred right to freedom and privacy, but that's only for themselves. Because if someone is not exactly like you, they shouldn't be free to "go their own way", huh Wulfie? Specially not those with indoor plumbing, dark skin, or towels on their heads.

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WULFENSTAR

Monday, July 12, 2010 9:10 PM

Im not neo-con.

And, for the record, it was people... simple, straight, honest people, who settled the hash of the folks like Niska, and the rest.

You rely too much on Big Daddy government to save you.

You should grow up, man up, and deal with the wrongs you see... instead of waiting for someone in authoritah to take care of it for you.

My opinion, of course.

MAL4PREZ

Monday, July 12, 2010 9:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Im not neo-con.

Most of the right's power-base, including Palin, are. The policies of today's Republican party are predominantly based on this bible-thumping, military-corporate-worshipping small-town beer-drinking, truck-driving, "education is for elitists" BS. If you do nothing but talk up the right (which you do), then that's what you're defending, pal.

Quote:
And, for the record, it was people... simple, straight, honest people, who settled the hash of the folks like Niska, and the rest.

And that was a work of fiction, not reality. See below.

Quote:
You rely too much on Big Daddy government to save you.

Never said I wanted Big Government. I certainly don't want the monster that the so-called "small govt" righties have put in place. But I do want some.

If you really think you can get by with no govt, prove it. Go on. Walk into a crime lord's lair during times of political chaos in Central America or Africa and free your buddy when he/she gets kidnapped. See if this invasion by "simple folk" wraps up in a neat third act action sequence where little gets harmed but some knee caps and an ear (which a convenient machine connects right back on.)

Oh, but you don't have to do anything like that here in America, do you? Hmm... I wander why. Maybe... darn, is it because of that govt you hate so much keeping order? Giving you other options besides shooting folks up?

Hint: try living in REALITY!

Quote:
You should grow up, man up, and deal with the wrongs you see...

I'll pass on the "man"-ing up, thanks. We've had plenty of manly men in charge and all their cowboy testosterone has done little but kill innocents, wreck the economy, whittle away rights like habeous corpus, free speech, and the ability to move about without carrying paperwork (if you're dark-skinned, that is. But of course, their rights don't count.)

To be thematic: why don't you try worrying about your penis size less and living in reality more? If you really can't handle it, go watch Firefly again and look for all those lovely shades of gray. Joss could be a mighty teacher, if you could listen to him.

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KWICKO

Monday, July 12, 2010 9:43 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Im not neo-con.

Keep telling yourself that. Really. That's just the cutest thing ever, precious!

Quote:

And, for the record, it was people... simple, straight, honest people, who settled the hash of the folks like Niska, and the rest.

You rely too much on Big Daddy government to save you.

I forget - who was it saved Book when he was shot up on the show? Where'd they take him?

Quote:

You should grow up, man up, and deal with the wrongs you see... instead of waiting for someone in authoritah to take care of it for you.

Go for it. Man up. Quit talking about it, especially here, on a website dedicated to a long-dead half-season canceled TV show, and get out there and FIX THINGS! What are you waiting for? Someone to give you the order?

Quote:

My opinion, of course.

Sure. Your opinion. You just don't like other people holding DIFFERENT opinions, right? Like about marriage, for instance? Or guns? Or who is and isn't a citizen (despite the fact that you yourself have proven to be so woefully ignorant of the Constitution's take on that matter!)

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

WULFENSTAR

Monday, July 12, 2010 10:05 PM

"If you really think you can get by with no govt, prove it. Go on. Walk into a crime lord's lair during times of political chaos in Central America or Africa and free your buddy when he/she gets kidnapped. See if this invasion by "simple folk" wraps up in a neat third act action sequence where little gets harmed but some knee caps and an ear (which a convenient machine connects right back on.)

Oh, but you don't have to do anything like that here in America, do you? Hmm... I wander why. Maybe... darn, is it because of that govt you hate so much keeping order? Giving you other options besides shooting folks up? "

Now, now... who says I havn't? Replace:

"Go on. Walk into a crime lord's lair during times of political chaos in Central America or Africa and free your buddy when he/she gets kidnapped. See if this invasion by "simple folk" wraps up in a neat third act action sequence where little gets harmed but some knee caps and an ear (which a convenient machine connects right back on.)"

with a 15 year old girl in the war zone of central jersey. Replace using a nice Glock (for the knee cappin) with a zip gun, a knife, mace, and a really old bayonette... and you might get the idea.

And no, I dint have some magical machine to clean up my wounds. I just have the scars, sad to say. But whatever, Im sure its nice to believe that these kinds of things are all fiction.

It makes the rest of the world look less scary.

So, by all means.. CONTINUE to live in your world of safety. Where the cops magically arrive to save you, noone ever gets hurt, the poor are to be pitied, and anyone who believes or has seen otherwise, is just some crazy, evil, racist neocon.

Sure.

I would love to be able to lay my head down at night believing the things you do. But the problem is, Ive seen and experienced OTHER things. Things that invalidate YOUR fiction.

So while, YOUR reality is something fictional and unstable and far from the truth to me... mine is the same to you.

But as for me, Id rather face the worst, hope for the best, be strong and know the truth...

than hide in some fantasy world where the only reason horror hasnt touched you yet is because it hasnt reached that far.

MAL4PREZ

Monday, July 12, 2010 10:27 PM

Wulf, I've been around these threads enough to know you've seen bad times, but you really are an ass to assume that I haven't, just because I don't choose Bad Times as the definition of my whole life. No system is perfect, but you're taking a local failure of the system as reason to tear the whole damned thing down, and denying that any of it is any good.

I am sorry you have those scars, but I don't understand how you think that getting rid of govt is going to fix what you went through. It'll only make that situation of lawlessness more common. Perhaps you want everyone to have to go through what you did? Because the Law let you down, then no one else should have the benefit of it? Because yes, I have. I'd have some dead family if there wasn't Law to be called on. Might be dead myself, or at least pretty damned broken.

I admit it straight up - I don't want to do every thing myself. I don't want to be food producer and mechanic and medic and tailor and businessperson and lawyer and computer programmer and architect and whatever else. And I don't want to live in fear of these people taking advantage of me, or have no recourse but to go after them with a gun when they mistreat me.

I want to be able to rely on other people doing some things for me because my talents lie elsewhere. I have a happier life and I might even be able to give back something worthwhile at the end of it because I'm able to focus on my strengths, rather than on basic survival. That's what society is. That's what enlightenment is. You like Firefly, right? You really think Joss could have created this if he'd had to take care of all his basic needs himself?

Yes, govt imposes some things on you, and more than a few of those could surely go. But getting rid of all govt is not the cure-all you seem to think it is, and the political right is sure as hell not the group of people who would accomplish what you're after. Pull your head out out of this "good team red bad team blue!" mentality and you might see that.

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WULFENSTAR

Monday, July 12, 2010 10:39 PM

No. Im no anarchist. Frem aside, Ive never seen the benefit of complete lack of government.

However.

Do I want some clown telling me what to eat, to think, to write, when its ok to defend myself, how and where to take my ailing family to the doctor, or any of it?

Oh hell no.

In my perfect world, Wulfie-world as some have coined it, the government stays as far out of my life until, and ONLY until, you ask them in.

Sort of like vampires... and well, isnt that the perfect analogy of government?

Do I need permission to kill those who wish harm against me and mine? SHOULD I even be asking that question?

Wheres the salt?

Can I say fuck the President and all his paper buddies? Should I worry that by saying that Im gonna get in trouble?

Why should I fork over my hard earned money to a system that on the BEST of days only gives it to people who made poor choices in life? Why am I paying for your mistakes?

I just want people to wake up. The government is not your parents. Its not going to save you, its not going to make you well, or rich.

Only YOU can do that.

KPO

Tuesday, July 13, 2010 12:07 AM

Quote:
Thank you for the warm welcome. I'll stay in General discussions. This is not worth my time.

I'm sorry to hear that, you sounded like someone with something interesting to say. Welcome to the site, anyway.

It's not personal. It's just war.

STORYMARK

Tuesday, July 13, 2010 12:41 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by out2theblack:

That's possibly the dumbest picture I've ever seen here. And we have Pirate News, so that's saying a lot. Bravo!

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

MAL4PREZ

Tuesday, July 13, 2010 1:34 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
No. Im no anarchist. Frem aside, Ive never seen the benefit of complete lack of government.

Ah! Ok, I mistook your arguments for his. So I guess most of that last post would be aimed at him, except that I've seen smarter people than me talk anarchy with Frem. I don't think I'd convince him of much.

Quote:
Do I want some clown telling me what to eat, to think, to write, when its ok to defend myself, how and where to take my ailing family to the doctor, or any of it?
No one wants this. And if you think this is what Obama and the Democratic party is trying to accomplish, you've been mislead by fear-mongers. In fact, you've been mislead by the very people who allow these freedoms to be taken away from you. ie What's going to stop you from taking grandma to the doc are the insurance companies and the high costs, not the govt.

Quote:
In my perfect world, Wulfie-world as some have coined it, the government stays as far out of my life until, and ONLY until, you ask them in.
Indeed. But the butting-in aspect of the govt happens on the right as much, or even more, than on the left. If you're a woman, a minority, a migrant, gay... basically, if you're not one of Palin's "real Americans," than the right wing definitely has a thing or two to say about your personal freedoms.

Do you care about these people at all?

Do I need permission to kill those who wish harm against me and mine? SHOULD I even be asking that question? Uh... sure you might end up killing people who attempt to DO you and yours harm. I'm no law expert, but I believe in most places that's not a crime. It certainly shouldn't be - anyone attacks me, you bet your ass I'm doing all I can to take them down. But if you kill people who just WISH you harm, then aren't you doing exactly what you despise - trying to control other people's thoughts?

"Can I say fuck the President and all his paper buddies? Should I worry that by saying that Im gonna get in trouble?" Has anyone stopped you from criticizing Obama? Haven't several liberals on this board actually joined you in the criticism?

Were you alive in the last decade, and did you see how people reacted to anyone who didn't like Bush's policies? Must I dig up the threads where certain asses on this board reacted more strongly to Bush criticism than ANYTHING you've faced re Obama?

Why should I fork over my hard earned money to a system that on the BEST of days only gives it to people who made poor choices in life? Why am I paying for your mistakes?First, because not all of the misfortunate are down due to mistakes and laziness, but they face failures of the system like the one you grew up in; Second, because helping the poor helps everyone - more education and more money moving up from the bottom might help America maintain its weakening position as a economic power; and Third, because you're a member of society and benefit greatly from the society you live in (did you design and build that computer you're looking at, and could you for the price you paid for it?) We ALL have to give something back or this system will fail.

Quote:
I just want people to wake up. The government is not your parents. Its not going to save you, its not going to make you well, or rich.
There are more important things to me than being rich. If that's all you're after, than, yeah, you probably do want the govt to be powerless. It sure does seem to be working for Wall street and the banking and oil industries.

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FREMDFIRMA

Tuesday, July 13, 2010 1:49 AM

Tsk, Out2Black, now ya done asked for it.

Let's start with the revolution, one of the primary movers, one Patrick Henry, about as flaming a "liberal" as you can get, back when it MEANT something damn close to anarchist, a guy who busted chops (and rightly so) on the Constitution cause he felt it didn't go FAR ENOUGH to protect our rights, who's influence was responsible for the few rights we DO have, and who boycotted the convention cause he smelt a (Federalist) rat...

So right there, your bill of rights, thank a liberal.

And specifically, the 2nd amendment, you know the incident that codified that whole concept to where it could not be denied - the overmountain men and the battle of Kings Mountain ?
Who were they but the Watauga association, a bunch of damned commune livin hippies, all but anarchists, who didn't give two shits for the continentals either!

And tell me, what were some of the deeds done by those right-leaning federalists, oh yes, suppressing the whiskey rebellion, cause for a fact they didn't wanna END the unrepresented taxation, they just wanted the largess in THEIR pockets, instead of king georges, way to go, a new aristocracy.

And of course the Alien and Sedition Acts, the first attempt at a patriot act, of course, followed up soon after by a brutal war to crush the whole "liberal" idea of consent of the governed, including shelling civvie populations and gunpoint conscription, yeah freedom, right ?

Oh but it doesn't stop there, what about the corporate robber barons and company towns and the us mother fucking government, the us goddamn ARMY, backing them up with those peons got uppity and wanted enough to live on, a fair shake, neh ?
Battle of Blair Mountain ring a bell ?

And what about those workers rights, that forty hour week, overtime, actual safety, or at least the damn pretense of it - all bought and paid for with buckets and buckets of the blood of those damn commie-socialist-anarchist labor folk, to which the first red scare was almost entirely an excuse to crush - outnumbered, outgunned, with STUPID ENABLING FUCKS LIKE YOU cheering them on, stomp stomp stomp as the jackboots crushed the people who's blood BOUGHT YOU THOSE RIGHTS into the dirt, yeah freedom.

Or how about our gleeful support of fascism, and Franco, greatest thing since sliced bread, really knew how to put those peons in their place, and there goeth those "liberals" again, risking charges of treason and execution to fight against his ass, outnumbered, outgunned, fools like you cheering Franco on, and yanno too bad about those death camps, cause yanno if the media never got hold of it we coulda blamed the liberals for that one too, yeah freedom.

Or how bout McCarthy and the red scare, a phony panic whipped up to keep feeding the military industrial complex, to wage war on our own citizens, and that damn liberal Frank Church trying to put a stop to it, how dare he...

Shit, I could go on and on, but it comes down to this.

Every freedom, every social advancement, every goddamn tiny shred of enlightened thought and behavior in this entire country, has come from those "liberal" folk you hate so much, often outgunned, outnumbered, spilling their own blood by the bucket standing against hopeless odds while idiot shitheels who think up is down and black is white and guzzle the koolaid with a side order of doublethink cheer them on and support them completely.

The only "right" in the political right is the divine right of kings, of nobles, of classism and racism and division and hate, spilling the blood of any who stand against THEIR way of being, THEIR way of doing, murder and slaughter instead of mercy and reason.

Quote:
“There are two great powers and they've been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger and those who want us to obey and

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