TALK STORY

At least Stonehenge serves some general purpose

POSTED BY: AURAPTOR
UPDATED: Wednesday, March 4, 2015 18:04
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Sunday, December 21, 2014 4:21 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


... as an ancient astronomical calendar.

Beyond that, why did people bother w/ such a effort to construct it ?


The Great Wall of China was suppose to keep Mongol hordes out.

Coliseums were meant as venues for spectator events.

The great Pyramids, beyond serving as fancy tombs for an elite individuals, as declared by themselves , don't actually DO anything, do they ?

Point is, just because something looks impressive or a group has a lot of followers ( eg: religion ) doesn't make it inherently 'right', or valid.

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Sunday, December 21, 2014 4:47 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
... as an ancient astronomical calendar.

Beyond that, why did people bother w/ such a effort to construct it ?

......

The great Pyramids, beyond serving as fancy tombs for an elite individuals, as declared by themselves , don't actually DO anything, do they ?

Point is, just because something looks impressive or a group has a lot of followers ( eg: religion ) doesn't make it inherently 'right', or valid.


You should spend more time listening to Art Bell and Coast To Coast, Laura Lee, Robin Falkov. You wouldn't be asking these questions, other than rhetorically.

You mentioned the astronomical/astrological noteworthiness of Stonehenge, did you neglect to mention the same for the worldwide Pyramids, or were you not aware?

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Sunday, December 21, 2014 5:31 PM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.


I've always preferred Stonedhenge myself.



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Sunday, December 21, 2014 8:48 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
... as an ancient astronomical calendar.

Beyond that, why did people bother w/ such a effort to construct it ?

......

The great Pyramids, beyond serving as fancy tombs for an elite individuals, as declared by themselves , don't actually DO anything, do they ?

Point is, just because something looks impressive or a group has a lot of followers ( eg: religion ) doesn't make it inherently 'right', or valid.


You should spend more time listening to Art Bell and Coast To Coast, Laura Lee, Robin Falkov. You wouldn't be asking these questions, other than rhetorically.

You mentioned the astronomical/astrological noteworthiness of Stonehenge, did you neglect to mention the same for the worldwide Pyramids, or were you not aware?



Listen, it's no secret that ancient men, and even not so ancient men, saw the skies as divine and projected meaning of what they saw to some how having anything to do w/ their personal lives. Horoscopes and the like. So big bright shiny objects in the sky over Egypt would still appear as big bright shiny objects in the sky in Central / South America. Of course they're gonna make a fuss, and see the same thing.It's the same gorram sky !

But my bigger point was more about fruitless endeavors of constructing great structures for non existent gods or to praise self anointed rulers

And it goes beyond just massive temples and the like, but I think of all those churches, cathedrals and the like. While pretty to look at, they just sit there, more times empty than not, doing nothing but taking up space. And material.

Sure , as an exercise in displaying our awesome architecture skills, I suppose they're fun to have. And it puts lots of folks to work, even if they're slaves or a combo of slaves and craftsmen...

Is it really worth it to put so many folks to work for a pointless gesture of a monument or house to ' god / zeus / ra ', etc... or will there be a time in history where we really do work on doing things which improve the lives of everyone, and not just a few elites or deluded followers of this or that religion.

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Sunday, December 21, 2014 8:49 PM

WISHIMAY

There will be fire and brimstone and Earth will be destroyed!... in several billion years!----------------------------------------- "Well, so long Earth. Thanks for the air... and what-not." -Philip J. Fry


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Beyond that, why did people bother w/ such a effort to construct it ?



Well, no TV or radio, and after a while when you've talked personally to every livestock you own and given them first and last names, what is left but picking up big rocks stackin' 'em up fer funzies?

I mean, people even THEN lived to at least forty of fifty. That's a long stretch of dull if there aren't any wars to be fighting...

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Sunday, December 21, 2014 10:05 PM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.


Quote:


Is it really worth it to put so many folks to work for a pointless gesture of a monument or house to ' god / zeus / ra ', etc...


Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but the fact is those people didn't think it was pointless. They actually believed in those gods.

I have to wonder if future peoples will find our old sports stadiums and wonder why so many people wasted time and money on such endeavors. I wonder that myself right now.



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Sunday, December 21, 2014 10:21 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Here's a mind twizzler... did the " leaders " of those ancient times really buy into all that god stuff, or did they just play along, to placate the dumb masses, so they could stay above them and live the life of luxury and abundance ?

And speaking of the great Pyramids, were there any built below the equator ? Any great structures of note , as compared to what was found in Egypt, Greece, Rome, or the Americas ,etc ?

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Sunday, December 21, 2014 11:44 PM

BRENDA


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

Here's a mind twizzler... did the " leaders " of those ancient times really buy into all that god stuff, or did they just play along, to placate the dumb masses, so they could stay above them and live the life of luxury and abundance ?

And speaking of the great Pyramids, were there any built below the equator ? Any great structures of note , as compared to what was found in Egypt, Greece, Rome, or the Americas ,etc ?




You just answered your own question when you mentioned the Americas and pyramids. Last time I looked South America was below the equator and there are pyramids scattered throughout.

And most royalty believed in "divine right" to rule. Not just in the Ancient world but look at Britian and Russia. The Tzars and the House of Tudor.

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Monday, December 22, 2014 4:29 AM

VERASAMUELS


There was a recent series of programmes on UK Tv about the whole Stonehenge area. It wasn't a lone structure! There was a whole lot of other things built nearby [mostly identified by infra-red/satellite imagery].

God[s] may not be non-existant! Billions of people worldwide have daily experiences of the numinous.

Devout Keeper of Jayne's Lunchbox

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Monday, December 22, 2014 8:24 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by VeraSamuels:

God[s] may not be non-existant! Billions of people worldwide have daily experiences of the numinous.

Devout Keeper of Jayne's Lunchbox



And I'm not one of them.

But I did see a special ( same one?) on the array of structures around Stonehenge . Cool stuff.

Brenda - I wasn't sure specifically where those pyramids were. I know of some on Mexico which I know sits above the equator. As does Central America & a good bit of S America as well.

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Monday, December 22, 2014 12:43 PM

BRENDA


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by VeraSamuels:

God[s] may not be non-existant! Billions of people worldwide have daily experiences of the numinous.

Devout Keeper of Jayne's Lunchbox



And I'm not one of them.

But I did see a special ( same one?) on the array of structures around Stonehenge . Cool stuff.

Brenda - I wasn't sure specifically where those pyramids were. I know of some on Mexico which I know sits above the equator. As does Central America & a good bit of S America as well.



Machu Picchu is a site in Peru, high in the Andes moutains and that is below the equator.

Yes, Mexico has pyramids and Guatemala. I would have to do a hunt on the internet for all the sites of pyramids in the Americas.

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Monday, December 22, 2014 5:27 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


I know OF Macchu Picchu but IDK if the the pyramid of Intiwuatana qualifies as an actual pyramid, does it ? Certainly not in the same sense as the free standing pyramids in Egypt, Mexico and other sites.

I'm no expert, so please do elaborate. Thanks.

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Monday, December 22, 2014 6:41 PM

BRENDA


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
I know OF Macchu Picchu but IDK if the the pyramid of Intiwuatana qualifies as an actual pyramid, does it ? Certainly not in the same sense as the free standing pyramids in Egypt, Mexico and other sites.

I'm no expert, so please do elaborate. Thanks.



The Intiwuatana is in the site of Machu Picchu and has a pyramid shape from the pictures. The site for Machu Picchu calls it a "pyramid building" because even though it is built into a slope of a mountain it has the mostly triangular shape of a pyramid. It probably was a temple and the Inca built their temples in pyramids. So, I would classify it as a pyramid.

No, you have to look hard to see the shape because of the way it was built.

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Monday, December 22, 2014 7:50 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Well, from what I recall in listening to the folks who buy into pyramid power and such, the dimensions of the structure need to be pretty precise, and not just 'pyramid-ish' in design. And I'm guessing it needs to be free standing as well. Even so, I do find it curious that most, if not " all " large pyramid structures were built in the N. hemisphere, and virually none are found on the southern half of the planet.

I guess the same could be said for most of the great civilizations, which seem to occupy the one side of the equator, and not so much the other. What's up w/ that ?

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Tuesday, December 23, 2014 12:11 AM

BRENDA


Yes, if you are talking about people who believe in pyramid power then no it does not qualify.

I do not believe in pyramid power. These structures are fantastic and therefore to me have an intrisic value that has nothing to do with their shape.

My thoughts on your "why not" question has to do with language and group cohesion. Greece, Egypt, Rome, even in India. Ancient Japan. Ancient China, it took one man with a vision and the willingness to force everyone under one banner to create the China we know today. They have their regions and dialets but they are one culture because of the first emperor.


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Tuesday, December 23, 2014 9:39 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

I guess the same could be said for most of the great civilizations, which seem to occupy the one side of the equator, and not so much the other. What's up w/ that ?

Because of the land. The biggest continent is Antarctica in the Southern Hemisphere. There is no civilization there, small or great. Next biggest continent is Australia. Not so many people there, either, because of the wide open spaces in the land of Mad Max. Land areas are distributed predominantly in the Northern Hemisphere (68%) relative to the Southern Hemisphere (32%) as divided by the equator. Check with M I Stupid, AURaptor, at http://mistupid.com/geography/continents.htm

Mad Max (2015) was filmed in Africa, the southern hemisphere half, not Australia because central Australia was too nasty for the civilized movie crew. If you wanted to know why there's no civilization.



The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, December 23, 2014 6:31 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
I guess the same could be said for most of the great civilizations, which seem to occupy the one side of the equator, and not so much the other. What's up w/ that ?

Because of the land. The biggest continent is Antarctica in the Southern Hemisphere. There is no civilization there, small or great. Next biggest continent is Australia. Not so many people there, either, because of the wide open spaces in the land of Mad Max. Land areas are distributed predominantly in the Northern Hemisphere (68%) relative to the Southern Hemisphere (32%) as divided by the equator. Check with M I Stupid, AURaptor, at http://mistupid.com/geography/continents.htm


Your linky doesn't agree with you.
About a third of Africa is below the equator, or about 10 million Sq Km. Most of South America is below the equator, perhaps equivalent to the size of Antarctica.
So the largest land masses south of the Equator would be Antarctica, South America, Africa, and in 4th place would be Australia.

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Tuesday, December 23, 2014 6:54 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Even so, I do find it curious that most, if not " all " large pyramid structures were built in the N. hemisphere, and virually none are found on the southern half of the planet.

I guess the same could be said for most of the great civilizations, which seem to occupy the one side of the equator, and not so much the other. What's up w/ that ?


The Mediterranean Sea is a great harbor from 40 days and 40 nights of deluge, for an Arc to come to rest. All major religions share this common story of a drowning world. Mediterranean means "Center of the Earth" and is also known as the Cradle of Civilization.
The China Sea is similarly safe Harbor from the vast oceans.
The Gulfs of Mexico, Panama, Honduras, and Caribbean Sea provided some protection for an Arc to come to rest. Heard of Azteks, Mayans, Incas?
America was connected via the Bering isthmus.

While civilization was grouped closely around the Med, one ruler could control all the "known world" whether French, Roman, Egyptian, Ottoman, etc.

The greatest invention of the first 2 millennia AD was hay. From the Med, hay allowed civilizations to survive winters, spreading northward and beyond the reach of control of a single ruler. Britain, Germany, Vikings were not viable conquerors during the ages of Pharoahs, Greeks, Romans, etc.
The Orient developed separately, isolated from the Med by geography.

Does any of that help, or pique your curiosity? Or were you being rhetorical?

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Tuesday, December 23, 2014 7:15 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


I wonder... trade and the cross breeding of new ideas seems to be a key in the growth of great civilizations. That, and a kick ass army that stomps threats and steals wealth and slaves, I suppose.

Where there are fewer folks, there's less competition, and less motivation to invent and try new things. And fewer kings to impress.

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Tuesday, December 23, 2014 7:25 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Sorry, I was editing my post when you posted.
Hey, wait! How can we do that if we are the same person? Or has that claimant departed the forum?

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Wednesday, December 24, 2014 1:03 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Ya almost lost me w/ the mythical flood thing, but then I stuck around, and you actually made sense.

Well done.

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Friday, December 26, 2014 2:32 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Ya almost lost me w/ the mythical flood thing, but then I stuck around, and you actually made sense.

Well done.


If all major religions share the same account (amounting to all written history of that time), is it really "mythical" in the end?

Also, the lush gardens of Babylon, Gaza, and Alexandria turned to desert sand, thus thrusting those civilizations away, and isolating development of sub-Saharan lands from the Med region.

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Friday, December 26, 2014 7:10 PM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Ya almost lost me w/ the mythical flood thing, but then I stuck around, and you actually made sense.

Well done.


If all major religions share the same account (amounting to all written history of that time), is it really "mythical" in the end?

Also, the lush gardens of Babylon, Gaza, and Alexandria turned to desert sand, thus thrusting those civilizations away, and isolating development of sub-Saharan lands from the Med region.


I agree about the prevalence of flood myths in all cultures indicating it was an event (or events) that actually happened. More than likely they refer to floods caused by the melting of glaciers at the end of an ice age.

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Friday, December 26, 2014 10:03 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Yeah, the big melt thing is what me thinks makes sense.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Saturday, December 27, 2014 4:03 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by ecgordon:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Ya almost lost me w/ the mythical flood thing, but then I stuck around, and you actually made sense.

Well done.


If all major religions share the same account (amounting to all written history of that time), is it really "mythical" in the end?

Also, the lush gardens of Babylon, Gaza, and Alexandria turned to desert sand, thus thrusting those civilizations away, and isolating development of sub-Saharan lands from the Med region.


I agree about the prevalence of flood myths in all cultures indicating it was an event (or events) that actually happened. More than likely they refer to floods caused by the melting of glaciers at the end of an ice age.


That would be a slow "flood" indeed.
Any perception about the worldwide evidence of "moving" magnetic poles? The thickness of the Earth's crust? Compared to the diameter of Earth?

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Saturday, December 27, 2014 4:29 PM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
That would be a slow "flood" indeed.


It is not unusual to have flooding in areas with more than average snowfall, so not hard to believe melting glaciers would cause the same.

Quote:

Any perception about the worldwide evidence of "moving" magnetic poles? The thickness of the Earth's crust? Compared to the diameter of Earth?

You haven't been reading Velikovsky, have you?

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Saturday, December 27, 2014 10:09 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

That would be a slow "flood" indeed.

Any perception about the worldwide evidence of "moving" magnetic poles? The thickness of the Earth's crust? Compared to the diameter of Earth?




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missoula_Floods


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Sunday, December 28, 2014 2:36 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by ecgordon:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
That would be a slow "flood" indeed.


It is not unusual to have flooding in areas with more than average snowfall, so not hard to believe melting glaciers would cause the same.


Flooding in the open ocean does not occur with "more than average snowfall" or similar. You are referring to land masses with narrowly channeled waterways, such as rivers and funneled watersheds. Localized "flooding" does occur in these due to the narrow scope of focus, and when huge amounts of land surface are exposed to rapid melting. This does not compare to worldwide flooding. Regardless the pace of polar melting, it cannot create worldwide sudden flooding, only a slow rise in the "sea level" and subsequent submerging of coastal lands.
Quote:


Quote:

Any perception about the worldwide evidence of "moving" magnetic poles? The thickness of the Earth's crust? Compared to the diameter of Earth?


You haven't been reading Velikovsky, have you?


had not heard of him, I think. Referring to Immanual? That is what comes up in search. You are addressing his worlds colliding concept? I cannot agree.
I was referring to Terran focused events. How does the entire world become awash in flooding deluge, with the previously existing civilization submerged or removed from habitable existence, and previous sea harbors submerged dozens or hundreds of feet below the new sea levels? And result in the crust pointing to a different location for the magnetic poles? Do you know where the current magnetic north pole is located? how long it has been there? Where has it been drifting from (the last location of magnetic north pole?)

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Sunday, December 28, 2014 2:40 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

That would be a slow "flood" indeed.

Any perception about the worldwide evidence of "moving" magnetic poles? The thickness of the Earth's crust? Compared to the diameter of Earth?



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missoula_Floods


Interesting. I don't recall hearing this term, but it is related to the events of 40 days and 40 nights, following the same time period. Their estimates of time seem accurate as well. The only fault in the wiki definition is the definition of "ice age" which is obsolete.

As the OP, do you feel the pyramids predate the period 13,000-15,000 years ago or post-date, or were concurrent?
And, as bonus, do you consider what is currently identified as The Sphynx to predate or postdate the "ice age" period mentioned in your linky?

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Sunday, December 28, 2014 3:16 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


THE pyramids, as in the great pyramids of Giza? I'd have to guess they're younger than 13,000 years old.

* However - whether as part of or completely unrelated, I've had a idea in my head, a general thought that there's been ,so far, large sections of man's history that have been lost or are yet un-discovered. Or re-discovered. It really is more of a fictional , almost romantic view that what we know of humans on this planet , whats's been taught, is VASTLY different than what has actually taken place. No, not some grand conspiracy, involving secret orders, ancient aliens or any such thing, but even so, I have to think that there are mini ' Atlantis ' type societies, that have cropped up and then faded away, erased from our knowledge of today.

We rewrite history even as it happens, for various reasons, so the idea that mankind has lost or deleted parts of our past, with intent or by sheer indifference, makes perfect sense to me.


Also, did you know of this ?

http://www.wired.com/2009/12/mediterranean-flood/

Now, this even clearly predates any humans walking around taking notes or scribbling on stones, but certainly early hominids were wandering about, and likely in the area of the Med.


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Sunday, December 28, 2014 4:09 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
THE pyramids, as in the great pyramids of Giza? I'd have to guess they're younger than 13,000 years old.

* However - whether as part of or completely unrelated, I've had a idea in my head, a general thought that there's been ,so far, large sections of man's history that have been lost or are yet un-discovered. Or re-discovered. It really is more of a fictional , almost romantic view that what we know of humans on this planet , whats's been taught, is VASTLY different than what has actually taken place. No, not some grand conspiracy, involving secret orders, ancient aliens or any such thing, but even so, I have to think that there are mini ' Atlantis ' type societies, that have cropped up and then faded away, erased from our knowledge of today.

We rewrite history even as it happens, for various reasons, so the idea that mankind has lost or deleted parts of our past, with intent or by sheer indifference, makes perfect sense to me.


Also, did you know of this ?

http://www.wired.com/2009/12/mediterranean-flood/

Now, this even clearly predates any humans walking around taking notes or scribbling on stones, but certainly early hominids were wandering about, and likely in the area of the Med.


I did not exclude all of the other pyramids.

Is that quip in italics from you, or somebody else?

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Sunday, December 28, 2014 5:04 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


The comments in Italics are mine, as a sort of side bar to the discussion at hand.

Things like that often are fun to imagine, like .... what if Tolkien's books really weren't fantasy, but instead are based in a form of reality. I know, more the stuff of day dreams than even casual message board talk of ancient history.

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Monday, December 29, 2014 7:21 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

* However - whether as part of or completely unrelated, I've had a idea in my head, a general thought that there's been ,so far, large sections of man's history that have been lost or are yet un-discovered.


correct.
Quote:


Or re-discovered.


ditto
Quote:


It really is more of a fictional , almost romantic view that what we know of humans on this planet , whats's been taught, is VASTLY different than what has actually taken place.


not really fictional.
Quote:


No, not some grand conspiracy, involving secret orders, ancient aliens or any such thing,


OK, those would be fictional.
Quote:


but even so, I have to think that there are mini ' Atlantis ' type societies, that have cropped up and then faded away, erased from our knowledge of today.



all current civilizations, and those in "history" have followed in the footsteps of Atlantis.
Quote:


We rewrite history even as it happens, for various reasons, so the idea that mankind has lost or deleted parts of our past, with intent or by sheer indifference, makes perfect sense to me.


Or calamity, followed by power grabs, then "protecting the masses from the truth" as it were.

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Saturday, January 10, 2015 1:38 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Or calamity, followed by power grabs, then "protecting the masses from the truth" as it were.



Media of today will white wash a story, almost as it happens, to promote and agenda. And it doesn't have to go through some central bureaucracy or minister of propaganda. Reporters are censoring themselves, so as too appease a cult of conformity. ( see recent events in Paris , and the story of one of the woman hostages who was told to convert to Islam )

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Saturday, January 10, 2015 5:11 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Or calamity, followed by power grabs, then "protecting the masses from the truth" as it were.



Media of today will white wash a story, almost as it happens, to promote and agenda. And it doesn't have to go through some central bureaucracy or minister of propaganda. Reporters are censoring themselves, so as too appease a cult of conformity. ( see recent events in Paris , and the story of one of the woman hostages who was told to convert to Islam )


hmmmm. different scale.
I was making mention of Extinction Level Event global calamity, and subsequent power grabs by "Rah" or Pharoah, kings/emperors/Caesars/Czars/Tzars/Tsars.

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Wednesday, March 4, 2015 6:04 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Did you start this thread because of Comet Lovejoy? It's 11,000 year orbit indicates it was last seen by Atlantians. Ironically, evidence of their advancement is that, much like today's non-hardcopy world, no surviving documents have been found to show that although technologically superior to us, they did not deem to record it in fashion that hundreds of generations later could discover.

although there are numerous Comet Lovejoys, this refers to the one found in August 2014.

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