CASTLE

Learned something today.

POSTED BY: BYTEMITE
UPDATED: Friday, October 23, 2009 09:35
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Monday, October 19, 2009 5:52 PM

BYTEMITE


Hulu discussion boards are vicious and full of people who are trying to take crime fiction /comedy too seriously.

I don't know about everyone else, but I think that the camp and cheese factor for Castle is part of the fun. I guess... some people... don't like camp? *speech broken, like my poor traumatized brain*


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Monday, October 19, 2009 6:16 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


With a show like Castle, I can suspend my disbelief. I don't think they REALLY expect you to believe that a writer is going to be allowed to go on hot calls with homicide detectives. The whole idea is a bit campy, so I roll with it, and it's fine.

However, when a show like Law & Order slips and fails, I tend to take it a bit more seriously. One episode recently, they'd just fished a woman's body out of the East River, fully clothed. She's still lying on the ground, clothed, soaking wet, and the Medical Examiner (and why is the M.E. *always* a black woman?) say, "Well, she's definitely been raped." And then never goes on to explain how she could possibly no that from a fully clothed drowning victim they just fished out of the river!

S.V.U. found its way out of my lineup the other night, when a guy was on trial after blacking out and bludgeoning a woman to death while he was drunk. The prosecutor, of course, didn't believe a bit of it - she thinks alcoholism is a crock. Of course, then she shows up drunk to court after pulling an all-night bender, this in light of the fact that NEVER have they even intimated that she might be a bit of a tippler.

I guess it grinds my gears when a show refuses to even follow its own internal logic. Castle DOES follow it, so all is well, as far as I'm concerned. And I don't believe in vampires or demons, but Buffy worked for me - and worked really well - because it stuck to its internal logic, and generally either stuck to the accepted vampire lore, or explained WHY it was a crock. Made it easy to suspend disbelief, and get drawn into that world. Supernatural is the same way - they stick to their rules, even if their rules seem ludicrous by our standards. And the whole show works beautifully because of that.

Anyhoo, that's my tuppence.

Mike

Let the wild rumpus start!

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Monday, October 19, 2009 6:26 PM

RAHLMACLAREN

"Damn yokels, can't even tell a transport ship ain't got no guns on it." - Jayne Cobb


The ONLY problem I have with Castle is that it's on a network that I can't get very well. Even tonight with CLEAR SKY it came in choppy and unwatchable. Unless, I'm standing with one hand on the antenna, well, than it comes in just fine.

Grrr.... Sucks sometimes, living on the corner of No and Where.


--------------------------------------------------
Find here the Serenity you seek. -Tara Maclay

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Monday, October 19, 2009 8:33 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by RahlMaclaren:
The ONLY problem I have with Castle is that it's on a network that I can't get very well. Even tonight with CLEAR SKY it came in choppy and unwatchable. Unless, I'm standing with one hand on the antenna, well, than it comes in just fine.

Grrr.... Sucks sometimes, living on the corner of No and Where.


--------------------------------------------------
Find here the Serenity you seek. -Tara Maclay


Reception ain't a whole lot better here in Long Beach, Ca., in the microwave shadow of Signal Hill.
Since the big whoop-tee-doo digital conversion we get worse reception on local channels 11 and 13, often none at all. and Gods forbid anybody should move in the living room while the TV is on- picture goes all chunky lo-res. But it does help if you hold one arm of the rabbit ears...

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Tuesday, October 20, 2009 3:55 AM

BYTEMITE


Kwicko: Sounds to me like that was one of the occasional Hallmark-esque message stories. Doesn't matter if someone's been depicted as erudite for five seasons, if the character can be written as illiterate for an episode just to show "illiteracy sucks!" it can and WILL be done.

It's almost a tvtrope. I've certainly seen enough spoofs.

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Tuesday, October 20, 2009 4:03 AM

BYTEMITE

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Tuesday, October 20, 2009 6:52 AM

NCBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
With a show like Castle, I can suspend my disbelief. I don't think they REALLY expect you to believe that a writer is going to be allowed to go on hot calls with homicide detectives. The whole idea is a bit campy, so I roll with it, and it's fine.

However, when a show like Law & Order slips and fails, I tend to take it a bit more seriously. One episode recently, they'd just fished a woman's body out of the East River, fully clothed. She's still lying on the ground, clothed, soaking wet, and the Medical Examiner (and why is the M.E. *always* a black woman?) say, "Well, she's definitely been raped." And then never goes on to explain how she could possibly no that from a fully clothed drowning victim they just fished out of the river!

S.V.U. found its way out of my lineup the other night, when a guy was on trial after blacking out and bludgeoning a woman to death while he was drunk. The prosecutor, of course, didn't believe a bit of it - she thinks alcoholism is a crock. Of course, then she shows up drunk to court after pulling an all-night bender, this in light of the fact that NEVER have they even intimated that she might be a bit of a tippler.

I guess it grinds my gears when a show refuses to even follow its own internal logic. Castle DOES follow it, so all is well, as far as I'm concerned. And I don't believe in vampires or demons, but Buffy worked for me - and worked really well - because it stuck to its internal logic, and generally either stuck to the accepted vampire lore, or explained WHY it was a crock. Made it easy to suspend disbelief, and get drawn into that world. Supernatural is the same way - they stick to their rules, even if their rules seem ludicrous by our standards. And the whole show works beautifully because of that.

Anyhoo, that's my tuppence.

Mike

Let the wild rumpus start!





The same for True Blood. No way will vamps be "out of the coffin" and own bars or have a romance with a telepathic human who works at a bar owned by a shape shifter that can change into a dog. But it works somehow in northern Louisiana.

As Bill tells Sookie in the first season,"Don't you think it's not magic that keeps you alive? Just because you understand the mechanics of how something works doesn't make it any less of a miracle. It's just another form of magic ...and my magic is just a little different from yours."

That sets up the whole mythos and believability of the story or any story by that matter.

As for Castle, it's not about the murders or the mystery. That's just the back drop. It's about the inter play of the characters . Just like Firefly but this time it takes place not in the space of the future but in a NYPD precinct.


http://fireflyfaninnc.livejournal.com/








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Tuesday, October 20, 2009 7:01 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
The prosecutor, of course, didn't believe a bit of it - she thinks alcoholism is a crock. Of course, then she shows up drunk to court after pulling an all-night bender, this in light of the fact that NEVER have they even intimated that she might be a bit of a tippler.



Her not believing in alcoholism seems like a pretty blatant set-up to me. I've known full-blown alcoholics that I didn't know had a problem untill they told me point blank.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Tuesday, October 20, 2009 7:03 AM

FREELANCERTEX


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite: Hulu discussion boards are vicious and full of people who are trying to take crime fiction /comedy too seriously.

I don't know about everyone else, but I think that the camp and cheese factor for Castle is part of the fun. I guess... some people... don't like camp? *speech broken, like my poor traumatized brain*

You mean bashing Castle because it's not "real" enough? That's lame. The cheese factor *is* part of the fun :P


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Tuesday, October 20, 2009 7:11 AM

STORYMARK


I'm not a fan of camp myself, generally speaking. A little bit, handled well, can be okay. But too much, and I loose interest.

Castle I like, but really, just because of Nathan. Anyone else were the star, I doubt I'd watch.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Tuesday, October 20, 2009 8:03 AM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

You mean bashing Castle because it's not "real" enough? That's lame. The cheese factor *is* part of the fun :P


Exactly what I mean. If they want a crime-solving series that takes itself seriously, they can tune into CSI or similar.

Also complaints about it looking "cheap" or "low-budget" which to me really mean the same thing.

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Tuesday, October 20, 2009 8:15 AM

BYTEMITE


@ Storymark: I like camp, myself, it's police/crime that I'm not overly big on. If it weren't for Nathan, I probably wouldn't be watching either. But I am enjoying it. :)

I'll concede that it is possible to go overboard on camp. Like that ghastly Batman and Robin movie.

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Tuesday, October 20, 2009 8:26 AM

UNABASHEDVIXEN


Quote:

Castle I like, but really, just because of Nathan. Anyone else were the star, I doubt I'd watch.


I don't think the show would work with someone else. Because it is campy, and silly, but Nathan as Castle is funny and endearing and just so enjoyable to watch. Does anyone else feel like it's really just "The Nathan Fillion Show" ? It seems like they are all having so much fun. That makes it fun to watch.

*
People before profits

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Tuesday, October 20, 2009 9:09 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by UnabashedVixen:
Quote:

Castle I like, but really, just because of Nathan. Anyone else were the star, I doubt I'd watch.


I don't think the show would work with someone else.



I don't know about that. It just seems that way because he's done so well in the role. But I've never been the type top think any role is playable by just one actor.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Tuesday, October 20, 2009 9:11 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:

Also complaints about it looking "cheap" or "low-budget" which to me really mean the same thing.




They can be the same thing, but I've also seen low budget shows that look like they had more, and high budget shows that look somewhat cheap. It's all about making the most of what you have.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Tuesday, October 20, 2009 9:24 AM

FREELANCERTEX


ok I'm a little lost on the meaning of "camp" ><;; (I tried looking it up). I agree on the Nathan bit, though. It just wouldn't be Castle without him.

On a more exciting note, can anyone not wait for next week's episode? Rick in Browncoat attire, hell yeah.


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Tuesday, October 20, 2009 10:11 AM

BYTEMITE


On camp: ever seen the 1960's Batman tv series?

Yeah. That pretty much defines over-the-top camp in the modern times. Some series do camp unintentionally but are appreciated for their campy qualities, while other shows intentionally try to camp things up. Camp can be subtle, and it can be overt.

Originally, the term applied to certain over-exaggerated homosexual stereotypes ("camp gay"), but now applies to any over-exaggeration of a quirk, and by extension, over-use of quirkiness and/or humour to the point where quirkiness is the entire subject. Camp is also used to satirize expected social norms.

Camp presents itself "as being committed to the marginal with a commitment greater than the marginal merits.” In other words, a show that doesn't take itself seriously in a genre that normally does is a style of "camp" or "campy," especially if the genre itself is also treated with respect (though possibly not the respect that the original creators intended). Castle is an example of camp because it plays comically with common eye-roll worthy police/crime drama stereotypes while at the same time paying homage to them. It embraces it's quirkiness and logic leaps and even subtly pokes fun at itself for the particularly not believable.

For a number of people, camp is subject to a certain amount of charm.

More detailed explanation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_(style)

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Tuesday, October 20, 2009 10:31 AM

FREELANCERTEX


aha. thank you for the explanation :) meh, who cares, funny cop stereotypes are fun, especially in castle's case :P

(and, you're going to roll your eyes, but no I haven't seen the 60's batman ><;; sorry)


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Tuesday, October 20, 2009 10:41 AM

BYTEMITE


Ha. Well, you still got what I was trying to say.

Actually, even though most people use Batman (1960) as the definitive camp series, I think it gives the wrong impression of all camp being over the top. Originally, all camp WAS over the top, and had to be to be considered camp, not so anymore.

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Tuesday, October 20, 2009 11:02 AM

FREELANCERTEX


meanings do change. What show would define 'camp' now, to replace Batman's meaning? (if you say Castle I will laugh :P)


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Tuesday, October 20, 2009 11:38 AM

BYTEMITE


Hmm. Tough one. I wouldn't say Castle is definitive camp, it's only camp in a few small ways, but camp is the best description for the degree of quirk, the subtle police drama lampooning, and the method of handwaving plot holes or cliches through humour.

But more subtle forms of camp than Batman 1960 that are as much distilled pure camp... They're a rare breed.

I'd actually go with a video game as opposed to an actual tvseries. The first Devil May Cry is a good example of subtle camp, as opposed to psychadelic pixie camp. It's also very dark, but there's a lot of jokes and references in the undertone.

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Tuesday, October 20, 2009 12:11 PM

STORYMARK


Any film by John Waters would be camp.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Tuesday, October 20, 2009 3:08 PM

FREELANCERTEX


*hasn't played Devil May Cry ><;;*

Also haven't seen anything by John Waters :P and yes I looked him up. well...all of the hims. ><;;


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Tuesday, October 20, 2009 3:22 PM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

I don't think the show would work with someone else. Because it is campy, and silly, but Nathan as Castle is funny and endearing and just so enjoyable to watch. Does anyone else feel like it's really just "The Nathan Fillion Show" ? It seems like they are all having so much fun. That makes it fun to watch.


Pretty much, which kind of worries me. I'm a fan of Nathan Fillion, but the other actors are there to work and gain notoriety as well.

Nathan is a likeable guy, and he acts his heart out, but that tends to result in him getting a lot of the spotlight... That can generate some resentment among other cast members, when a series just becomes a vector for a certain actor's popularity. Example: Star Trek and William Shatner.

(It's a worry I have about Dollhouse too)

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Wednesday, October 21, 2009 7:49 AM

STORYMARK


Difference being - the show is called "Castle". Star Trek was not "Captain Kirk".



"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Wednesday, October 21, 2009 7:55 AM

BYTEMITE


Well, true. I'm just going by some things I've heard, where some cast members of Star Trek will not accept an invitation to a convention if they hear another cast member is there.

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Friday, October 23, 2009 9:35 AM

TESKA


Quote:

Originally posted by RahlMaclaren:
The ONLY problem I have with Castle is that it's on a network that I can't get very well. Even tonight with CLEAR SKY it came in choppy and unwatchable. Unless, I'm standing with one hand on the antenna, well, than it comes in just fine.

Grrr.... Sucks sometimes, living on the corner of No and Where.


--------------------------------------------------
Find here the Serenity you seek. -Tara Maclay




Hulu.com homey, HULU!!!!

The new epsiode gets put up the Tuesday morning after it airs, but you get sexy quality.






People who put cutesy political quotes in their signature should be tortured and fed their own family and/or pets.

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