OTHER SCIENCE FICTION SERIES

Why I believe Tomorrow Never Dies is the best Bond flick of all time:

POSTED BY: CHRISISALL
UPDATED: Thursday, January 29, 2009 12:26
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 1568
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Monday, January 26, 2009 5:32 AM

CHRISISALL


1) Brosnan, a great Bond.
2) No silly Batman-esque trap where he's left to die & no one sticks around to make sure.
3) Great music, some of the best.
4) Strongest female lead since Pussy Galore, and a better fighter!
5) Bond sitting there with vodka & a gun ready for the worst- CLASSIC!
6) Sincere regret, the most you'll ever see out of Bond, at the killing of Paris in his room.
7) Supervillain with realistic means to an insane end.
8) No invisible car, phony rear screens, or shoot out in a space station.
9) Excellent final confrontation & fight scene!
10) No throw-away female characters (always bugged me, like Kissy Suzuki- make love to her, see her killed, move on to the next warm body without pause...)

Thoughts?


The cinematic Chrisisall

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Monday, January 26, 2009 6:52 AM

BYTEMITE


I think Pierce Brosnan was underrated as Bond, although the last movie he did was an absolute mess.

I liked GoldenEye, a rogue MI6 agent? Nice.

If Tomorrow Never Dies was the one in China, I like that one too.

I like the move back to dark in the new Daniel Craig movies, I think it gives the series some credibility and revitalized the franchise. I give them credit there. But Daniel Craig feels like a very wooden Bond to me.

And I'm also one of the few people that don't think that being first automatically makes Sean Connery the best. He had the humour that Daniel Craig often lacks that should be present in the character... But Sean Connery just played Bond too damn NICE. I do honestly think Pierce Brosnan was a better Bond than Connery, he's a pretty boy but you have to take him more seriously too, and all the snide/dark humour delivery was there.

I have to withhold my judgement until I see the other Bonds though.

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Monday, January 26, 2009 6:57 AM

OPPYH


I think Goldeneye is Brosnan's best Bond.
Tomorrow Never Dies is a lot of fun though.

Want to talk underrated Bond...License To Kill with Timothy Dalton. He may not have been the best Bond, but it's quite an interesting movie.

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Monday, January 26, 2009 7:00 AM

STORYMARK


TND has grown on me over the years, and is probably my second favorite Brosnan, but it still has some problems that keep it from being great for me. Cheifly, the villain, realistic motive or not, it wasn't a very cinematic one, and Pryce was simply not threatening in any sense of the word. Even his henchmen were pretty underwhelming.

There was a rather non-Bondian reliance on automatic weapons that bothered me. Mr. "One shot one kill" tranformed into Mr. "Flood the room with bullets, and hope something is hit" which detracted from the vibe for me.

I also really disliked Teri Hatcher.


And Connery played him as too nice?? He was known for cold-blooded murder on a much more frequernt basis than any other.


"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Monday, January 26, 2009 7:05 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
But Daniel Craig feels like a very wooden Bond to me.

Me too.
Quote:



Sean Connery just played Bond too damn NICE.

See Dr. No where he shot a dead guy in the ass just to make sure....not so nice.


The laughing Chrisisall

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Monday, January 26, 2009 7:09 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by OPPYH:
I think Goldeneye is Brosnan's best Bond.

I might have said that a while back, but I just saw it the other day, & that bad FX skydive to the plane in the beginning just sticks in my craw...Onnatop is one of THE best bad girls, though.
Oh, and the Russian guys speaking English in Russian accents thing REALLY irks me...


The technical Chrisisall

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Monday, January 26, 2009 7:13 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Even his henchmen were pretty underwhelming.

I disagree, Stamper was fairly menacing, IMO. Yah?
Quote:



There was a rather non-Bondian reliance on automatic weapons that bothered me.

Funny, that thought never crossed my mind. Perhaps because of the scene where he waited with the vodka & the gun- just the PPK- to take care of business.


The spot-on Chrisisall

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Monday, January 26, 2009 7:23 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:


I liked GoldenEye, a rogue MI6 agent? Nice.


Alec was MIA for 9 years, but actually alive and no one in the intelligence community heard ANY grumblings about it? Did he just sit in a cellar somewhere letting his hate of 007 fester? That's the one hole in that flick for me...now if he'd been gone for a year or two...


The over-analytical Chrisisall

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Monday, January 26, 2009 8:13 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
But Daniel Craig feels like a very wooden Bond to me.


Funny, I just read a review where this dude refers to Craig as "Pissy emo Bond". LOL.


The laughing Chrisisall

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Monday, January 26, 2009 8:29 AM

BYTEMITE


In regards to Sean Connery, I meant less his methods and more how he talks with his potential allies. He's calm, approachable, and sympathetic, more so than I feel like the other two Bonds I'm familiar with.

My impression of Bond from the books is that he's more intimidation, "I'll do what I'm told, but I'll do it MY way," or in the case of women, pure magnetism.

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Monday, January 26, 2009 8:39 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:

My impression of Bond from the books is that he's more intimidation, "I'll do what I'm told, but I'll do it MY way," or in the case of women, pure magnetism.

My take on the books is that Bond was essentially manic/depressive , and buried it by saying effue to danger, while distracting himself with booze & broads.



The shrink Chrisisall

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Monday, January 26, 2009 8:53 AM

THESOMNAMBULIST


Chrisisall Wrote:

Quote:

1) Brosnan, a great Bond.
Agreed. But not being a Bond fan I prefered Timothy Dalton (I side with Andrew on that one)
Quote:

2) No silly Batman-esque trap where he's left to die & no one sticks around to make sure.
Agreed
Quote:

3) Great music, some of the best.
Disagree. On Her Majesty's Secret Service had the best score for me, Or Man with the Golden Gun.. Barry gave the Bond them a distinctive "Rag' type slant. Worked a treat.
Quote:

4) Strongest female lead since Pussy Galore, and a better fighter!
Agreed
Quote:

5) Bond sitting there with vodka & a gun ready for the worst- CLASSIC!
Hmm. S'ok.... I prefered it when Connery unzipped his frog suit to reveal a Tux underneath - but I get your point.
Quote:

6) Sincere regret, the most you'll ever see out of Bond, at the killing of Paris in his room.
Isn't that contrary to Bonds character though?
Quote:

7) Supervillain with realistic means to an insane end.
Agreed.
Quote:

8) No invisible car, phony rear screens, or shoot out in a space station.
Agreed!
Quote:

9) Excellent final confrontation & fight scene!
Agreed. Plus the whole Helicopter, two on a Bike getaway stunt!!!
Quote:

10) No throw-away female characters (always bugged me, like Kissy Suzuki- make love to her, see her killed, move on to the next warm body without pause...)
Agreed. Unfortunately the two Craig ones have gone and done exactly that. Oh well.


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Monday, January 26, 2009 8:58 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:

Quote:

3) Great music, some of the best.
Disagree. On Her Majesty's Secret Service had the best score for me, Or Man with the Golden Gun.. Barry gave the Bond them a distinctive "Rag' type slant. Worked a treat.

My favourite Barry stuff was on Goldfinger, Diamonds are forever & Man With The Golden Gun. However, since Barry was not an option on TND for whatever reason, Arnold did an amazing job including Barry's riffs into the score, I thought.


The thematic Chrisisall

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Monday, January 26, 2009 11:00 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:

Quote:

6) Sincere regret, the most you'll ever see out of Bond, at the killing of Paris in his room.
Isn't that contrary to Bonds character though?

Ordinarily yes, but she was dead, because of him, and the perp was dead (no vengeance to focus on), and after his wife, steeling himself (sorry, couldn't resist) to another loss this close has become harder.


The IMO Chrisisall

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Monday, January 26, 2009 11:37 AM

THESOMNAMBULIST


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:

Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:

Quote:

3) Great music, some of the best.
Disagree. On Her Majesty's Secret Service had the best score for me, Or Man with the Golden Gun.. Barry gave the Bond them a distinctive "Rag' type slant. Worked a treat.

My favourite Barry stuff was on Goldfinger, Diamonds are forever & Man With The Golden Gun. However, since Barry was not an option on TND for whatever reason, Arnold did an amazing job including Barry's riffs into the score, I thought.


The thematic Chrisisall



Not a fan of David Arnold at all. I won't deny his talent but his scores tend to sound like tagged on fanfare. Reference INDEPENDENCE DAY. Now of course it may be a directors request so must not judge him too harshly. However I find he lacks the finesse of say : Marco Beltrami iRobot or the dark clarity of Danny Elfman Batman or the ingenuity of Mark Motherbaugh Life Aquatic.

Still that said - I wish I had just a pinky's worth of his ability when it comes to scoring.


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Monday, January 26, 2009 12:04 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:



Not a fan of David Arnold at all.

I was luke warm over his stuff (Stargate, ID4) until Tomorrow Never Dies- I loved his Barry inclusion...much like Brian Tyler's soundtracks for Rambo & AVP Requiem, so cool to hear the themes, even if the original composers aren't available/alive to do them.
The difference to me is, Barry, Goldsmith, & Silvestri write stuff you can listen to independent of the movie, not so with Arnold & Tyler, who are movie specific...'fanfare'-like as you might say.


The noted Chrisisall

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Monday, January 26, 2009 12:22 PM

THESOMNAMBULIST


Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:

until Tomorrow Never Dies- I loved his Barry inclusion...much like Brian Tyler's soundtracks for Rambo & AVP Requiem, so cool to hear the themes, even if the original composers aren't available/alive to do them.


Yeah they do this alot these days. I'm not sure how I feel about it actually. At the end of Casino Royale it was fine, because you felt that maybe Bond had 'reached' the point of the 007 we knew from before, and therefore he now has become that 'familiar' identity. However the very lack of continuity with this into Quantum of Solace confussed me.


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Monday, January 26, 2009 12:27 PM

LWAVES


I don't know if I can go as far as saying it's the best Bond ever but it's certainly Brosnan's best for all the points Chris mentioned in the first post, and the best one since Connery left the role.
Michelle Yeoh kicks ass and it was refreshing to see a baddie with an achievable goal, something that could actually happen (some may say it has).

Aside from the plane dive in Goldeneye I have an even bigger problem with this movie that kinda spoilt it for me at the flicks. Maybe some of you had the same thing but over here in the UK when the film was released Sean Bean was already a pretty well known actor. He was always mentioned with the press that followed the movie and then he was listed third or fourth on the opening credits.
Having him as a fellow agent was great but as soon as he died I knew immediately that he was the one behind it all and had turned rogue.

Now I'm no expert but I would have preferred it if they'd introduced the character in one movie, have him and Bond work together a bit, Bond saves his life like usual (or maybe the other way round for a change) and then in the following movie have him 'die' and be revealed as the big bad. Maybe with links to the previous movie showing what his character had really been up to.
Surely that would have had more impact?

That's my opinion. Goldeneye is still a great movie though and it's certainly nowhere near as bad as Die Another Day. And the invisible car ain't the worst bit, I'll save that for Madonna (shudders at the thought of her).



"I don't believe in suicide, but if you'd like to try it it might cheer me up to watch."

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Monday, January 26, 2009 12:29 PM

THESOMNAMBULIST


Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:

The difference to me is, Barry, Goldsmith, & Silvestri write stuff you can listen to independent of the movie, not so with Arnold & Tyler, who are movie specific...'fanfare'-like as you might say.


..Yes. You know in fairness composers these days do work under some crazy deadlines. So I may be being way to harsh on him. I know that Marco Beltrami had only 17 days to score iRobot. That's incredible. 17 days, to be inspired! Find a motif! Work out subsequent themes, apply them to relevant scenes/actions, decide on instrument arrangement, orchestrate it, and record/sync it to sound effects!!! I'd be all manner of hysterical with those deadlines!! Crazy!


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Monday, January 26, 2009 12:42 PM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by lwaves:

Having him as a fellow agent was great but as soon as he died I knew immediately that he was the one behind it all and had turned rogue.



I'd never heard of him before Goldeneye, and I sussed that out. But Bond movies aren't really known for revelatory plot twists (not to me, anyway), so it didn't bother me. The point was Bond didn't know, and that worked well enough.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Monday, January 26, 2009 12:54 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by lwaves:
over here in the UK when the film was released Sean Bean was already a pretty well known actor.

See, I had no idea that he was gonna come back at the middle, and that was a major 'whoah' for me.


The ignorant Chrisisall

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Monday, January 26, 2009 4:38 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by lwaves:
it's certainly nowhere near as bad as Die Another Day. And the invisible car ain't the worst bit, I'll save that for Madonna (shudders at the thought of her).

Sadly, Die Another Day started out promising, then degenerated into another Moonraker, IMO.


The harsh Chrisisall

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Tuesday, January 27, 2009 7:18 AM

CHRISISALL


Continuing my Bond movie month, I just watched Goldfinger, and aside from the nostalgia of it, it has more holes in it than swiss cheese.
Why tell the "hood's convention" of the plan if he was just gonna kill 'em all anyway?
Why have Oddjob shoot the hood in the car, and crush it with the gold inside, just to have to smelt it down to retrieve it?
Why let Bond walk around the premises with only ONE guard (Pussy)??
Sure it's fun, but it confirms that Thunderball is the best of the 'gadget' Bonds with Connery. Now I have to watch From Russia With Love to see how that stacks up (been a while for that one).


The double D'oh Chrisisall

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Tuesday, January 27, 2009 11:23 AM

LWAVES


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Continuing my Bond movie month

The double D'oh Chrisisall



Are you planning on rewatching all of them or just a select few?
Does Sonisall like Bond? Do you let him watch them (I forget his age - 9??).

I like the idea of having 'themed' film seasons and it's something we do. We decide on a theme and then find films to fit that theme. Some times the themes are very strange, depending on what the person comes up with. Currently it's the Potter movies, then (I believe) it's Brit zombie movies next time and my oldest mate, Gary, decided he wants to theme one called 'Movies You'd Never Let Your Granny See'. I imagine that means lots of violence, swearing and very little of couples in a candlelit, soft focus room with billowy white curtains.



"I don't believe in suicide, but if you'd like to try it it might cheer me up to watch."

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Tuesday, January 27, 2009 11:33 AM

LWAVES


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:

Originally posted by lwaves:

Having him as a fellow agent was great but as soon as he died I knew immediately that he was the one behind it all and had turned rogue.



I'd never heard of him before Goldeneye, and I sussed that out. But Bond movies aren't really known for revelatory plot twists (not to me, anyway), so it didn't bother me. The point was Bond didn't know, and that worked well enough.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."



I agree they aren't really known for their revelatory plot twists but this was a new Bond and I kind of thought they may have gone that way to bring the character more up to date. As it happened I was never given the chance to suss it out and that is something I like to try to do, I love a twisting plot.
I still really like the film though.

I don't know what else Sean Bean had done before Goldeneye without looking it up but in the UK he'd played Sharpe in several TV shows that were really popular. I'm sure it works the other way with US stars that Brits have never heard of.



"I don't believe in suicide, but if you'd like to try it it might cheer me up to watch."

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Tuesday, January 27, 2009 11:56 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by lwaves:

Are you planning on rewatching all of them or just a select few?

Just my favourites/best ones. I'm surprised how intolerant I've become towards silly stuff; Diamonds Are Forever used to be my favourite Connery Bond, now it seems to be Thunderball. I flat out got rid of Die Another Day. And now Goldfinger had me grimacing some... could it be the effect of Casino Royale being so straight up serious acting upon my subconscious?
Quote:


Does Sonisall like Bond? Do you let him watch them (I forget his age - 9??).

9 & 11/12<<
Quote:


I like the idea of having 'themed' film seasons and it's something we do.

Yeah, I have Buffy month, Firefly 1/2 month, Dark Angel month, space movie month, adventure month, etc.


The that's entertainment Chrisisall

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Tuesday, January 27, 2009 11:59 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by lwaves:
I don't know what else Sean Bean had done before Goldeneye without looking it up but in the UK he'd played Sharpe in several TV shows that were really popular. I'm sure it works the other way with US stars that Brits have never heard of.



"I don't believe in suicide, but if you'd like to try it it might cheer me up to watch."



His main US role prior to Goldeneye was as the villain in Patriot Games, but at the time, I didn't recognize him.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Tuesday, January 27, 2009 12:01 PM

STORYMARK


1/2 a month for Firefly Chris? I usually tear through it in a weekend (as I just did with my shiny new Blu Ray editions).

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Tuesday, January 27, 2009 1:42 PM

CHRISISALL


Okay, 1/4 month to be a little bit more precise...


The Chrisisall

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Tuesday, January 27, 2009 4:46 PM

PIRATECAT


Best Bond that's a tuffy. PB broke all the records. There all great. What makes a good Bond. The time, the story, gadgets, hot chics, cast, score, and first time stunts. Cary Grant and Roger Moore were originally picked to play 007. Grant was to old. Moore would have been just as good. But Connery was perfect for the 60s. Mistakes made Sean should have made OHMSS. George Lazenby big mistake. Moore should have started with DAF. Rachel Welch should have played Domino in TB. Jaclyn Smith should have been in the 80s bond flicks. PB should have started with Octupussy. Danny Craig takes some warming up to but gets it done. Now in QOS, I could have swore that the old dude smoken the stogie in the hotel where 007 picks up the suit case is Sean Connery. I could be wrong but it looks just like him. Also mitchell was in the end of Casino Royale when Bond is following Vesper. He is a stunt man also in DAD. Now Mitchell does get the drop on Bond in the Bell tower but fired 7 rounds and was out. Makes sense 6 in the clip and one in the chamber. Bond flicks pay attention to detail, I like that.

"Battle of Serenity, Mal. Besides Zoe here, how many-" "I'm talkin at you! How many men in your platoon came out of their alive".

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Tuesday, January 27, 2009 5:12 PM

PIRATECAT


This web site is aliitle slow but worth the wait. I've found alot of info on 007. I was right about Bond's gun it was a Beretta before a Walther PPK.
http://www.ocd007.com/
Yeh, I might of had a dream that I was in a hot tub with Tom Brady and James Bond being served ice cold 16oz drafts by Tatoo of fantasy island. So that's not a gay thing just a normal man dream. People read way to much into it.

"Battle of Serenity, Mal. Besides Zoe here, how many-" "I'm talkin at you! How many men in your platoon came out of their alive".

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Wednesday, January 28, 2009 7:57 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by PirateCat:
Rachel Welch should have played Domino in TB.

Oh yes, DEFINITLY!!!


The rewriting Chrisisall

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Thursday, January 29, 2009 12:26 PM

CHRISISALL


Just watched From Russia With Love for the first time in a decade or so...pretty good flick, but Tomorrow Never Dies is still my fave.
To me, spy movies are inherently over-the-top anyway- how else can you make entertainment from such a mostly boring job? So, go nutz, but within reason, says I. Diamonds Are Forever is right on that line, IMO. I can see where some might say it crossed into sillyville. But From Russia With Love was just a might too serious for it's own good, IMO.
Hard to take the movie as seriously as the characters when Bond has to sleep with the two Gypsy girls to keep them from killing each other, heh heh.


The laughing Chrisisall

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