OTHER SCIENCE FICTION SERIES

Is it just me- or does Galactica's third season BLOW?

POSTED BY: CHRISISALL
UPDATED: Friday, May 2, 2008 11:22
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VIEWED: 1706
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Friday, March 28, 2008 10:37 AM

CHRISISALL


I rented disk one & I couldn't make it all the way through the second episode. It's turned into Battlestar Iraqtica as far as I can tell...and the whole 'Plan' seems to be unraveling as they go.
It's frakin' insulting, as Riddick might say.

Gimme SGAisall


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Friday, March 28, 2008 11:55 AM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.


I know it's not going to do any good to say this, but I must. I would rather watch BSG, because even when it fails it at least attempts to have a point, whereas the other show you have been trumpeting lately is essentially the same episode to episode. I never responded to another comment you made about SGA, something about the characters, but what I had wanted to say at the time was, "Don't you mean caricatures?"

But to answer your question, quite a few Season Three episodes blow, but there are others that are fraktastic. You should at least have watched Exodus, Parts 1 & 2.



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Friday, March 28, 2008 12:16 PM

MAL4PREZ


I have to agree with ECG - about BSG, not about whatever mysterious other series you've talked about. [edit - oh! SGA. Sorry, I'm slow.] BSG season 3 was the first that had episodes which made me think - wtf were they thinking? Which was shocking just because BSG was never actually *bad* before. Still, it's better than most TV, and the majority of episodes were decent. A few were outstanding.

The end of the season... I've only seen it once and feel like I shouldn't have liked it, it should have been cheesy, but somehow they made it work in a way that still gets to me. I really need to watch that one again.

What is it you don't like Chris? I tend to agree with your taste, so I'm curious...

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Friday, March 28, 2008 12:20 PM

SISTER


nope, not just you - went all soap.

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Friday, March 28, 2008 1:21 PM

IMNOTHERE


Actually, I really liked the "occupation" arc and the aftermath - this sort of moral ambiguity is what BSG does really well.

So the Cylons are fracked-up and factionalised, the Humans are equal to the toasters in their capacity for atrocity, and Adama and Roslyn are barely-competent hypocrites. Great stuff!

However, like the previous season, the middle half-dozen or so episodes were rather dull - but if the US TV industry will insist on grinding out 20++ episodes in a season, what do you expect? At least they haven't resorted to a clip show yet (although the boxing one looked like a cost-saving exercise).

Problem is, unless the season finale was some sort of big misdirection, I'd say they've got about 4-6 episodes worth of plot left to eke out over season 4.



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Friday, March 28, 2008 4:32 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by ecgordon:
I never responded to another comment you made about SGA, something about the characters, but what I had wanted to say at the time was, "Don't you mean caricatures?"


Maybe...but they're...cool.

Popcorn Chrisisall

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Friday, March 28, 2008 4:39 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by mal4prez:

What is it you don't like Chris? I tend to agree with your taste, so I'm curious...


It's just dark for darkness' sake...at least for me...I like moral ambiguity, but not in EVERYBODY.
Gimme Luke Skywalker, Apollo from the original series, John Sheppard, heck, even Mal isn't so frakked-up...I need a reasonably pure anchor in the storm of gray...

Plus, it's just seeming a little weird...FAT LEE???

If you can get into it, great...like I say, I like Ballistic: Ecks VS Sever, so I'm no judge of guilty pleasures.

Biggest peeve though- WHERE ARE THE GORRAM VIPERS????????????

Viper pilot Chrisisall

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Friday, March 28, 2008 6:08 PM

MACBAKER


If you watched tonight's Galactica specials, you would find someone we all respect, who would definitely disagree with you. Joss is not only a HUGE fan, he said (and I quote) "It's the best Sci-Fi show ever on television".

As a Browncoat, I'll have to say he's being modest, and Battlestar is only the second best Sci-fi show ever on television.

Sorry, I don't think any season of Battlestar has been boring, or any more soapy than any other long running series, and I have to agree with Joss when he says it's brilliant, and unpredictable!

I'd given some thought to movin' off the edge -- not an ideal location -- thinkin' a place in the middle.

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Saturday, March 29, 2008 7:57 AM

DARKJESTER


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
I rented disk one & I couldn't make it all the way through the second episode. It's turned into Battlestar Iraqtica as far as I can tell...and the whole 'Plan' seems to be unraveling as they go.
It's frakin' insulting, as Riddick might say.

Gimme SGAisall




Not sayin' it's just you(isall), but I disagree Chris. I really liked the Battlestar Iraqtica storyline. Interesting characters in over their heads in a dire situation that they helped create. It was a HUGE break in the storyline, and we got to see characters we knew in unfamiliar territory. Baltar actually in charge? Starbuck married? Chief and Callie with a baby? Fat Apollo? Great stuff! Yeah, it took some getting used to, but the storytelling was still very strong.

Personally, I still prefer the mainstream episodes aboard the Galactica. And season 3 had its' share of weak episodes. But I really think sticking out the weaker ones pays off in the end. Plus, the escape from New Caprica is frakkin' fantastic!!!

edit - but you're right, any episode of BSG is incomplete without Vipers!



MAL "You only gotta scare him."
JAYNE "Pain is scary..."

http://www.fireflytalk.com - Big Damn Podcast

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Saturday, March 29, 2008 8:50 AM

CHRISISALL


Sorry guys, but I just watched Exodus 1 & 2...ho hum.
The whole occupation thing was so contrived- even Baltar's not so stupid as to subject everyone to that danger, the writers just wanted to go there for fun...plus: how do you launch while falling at that velocity without killing at least SOME pilots that would be unable to cope with the IMMEDIATE and ridiculously forceful updraft just outside the tube???
Why didn't the cylon that Starbuck killed get rid of his former body when he came back?
"Skinjobs"...steal from Blade Runner much?
It's all so frakkin convoluted for the sake of effect...it reminds me of Buffy season five (my least favourite as that kind of thing goes), but without the humour to carry me through.
I don't give a womprat's ass if Joss likes it, it's absolute felgercarb to me now.

But I still like Razor...go figure.

Missing Lorne Greene Chrisisall

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Saturday, March 29, 2008 10:53 AM

REGINAROADIE


I'd have to say that yes, it suffers the same problems with season 2 (great beginning, middle and final episodes), only this season, the weak episodes are more pronounced. I know when I got to the big Starbuck episode near the end (won't spoil it for you), I was convinced that BSG had officially jumped the shark. But that finale was incredibly warped and has me eager for season 4. I'm still concerned that it'll be more of the same. Great beginning few episodes, weak run of three or four, the mid-season break episodes will be spectacular, the next 6 or so is just them spinning their FTL drives, and then the finale will blow everyone's minds.

I didn't mind a fat Lee. It was good to see someone other than Tyrol not having an Aryan physique of glistening muscles. What I did mind was that there wasn't too much of it, and that it literally melted off in a week. As someone whose weight has fluctuated over the last few years, it really ticked me off.

And as per humor, BSG has never really been a funny series. And that lack of humor has always been a problem for me. It's always been stern um drang, fate of the universe is in the balance, one loud noise away from a complete nervous breakdown. Individual moments may have been somewhat humorous, but on the whole the has as many laughs as Dick Cheny.

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"And it starts with a sentence that might last a lifetime, or it all might just go down in flames. If I let you know me, then why would you want me? Each day I don't is a shame. Each day I don't is a great shame."

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Saturday, March 29, 2008 12:44 PM

DARKJESTER


Quote:

Sorry guys, but I just watched Exodus 1 & 2...ho hum.


OK Chris, in my book you've given it a good try, and you don't like it - kudos to you for effort (my inner parent showing I guess!).

Funny though, I have a friend who said EXACTLY the same thing (ho hum) at the news of the upcoming comic series about Shepherd Book. He LOVES Firefly, and was one of the last two or three holdouts watching at the Sunday VShindigs on AIM, coming almost weekly for over three years (I'm another of the last few). He saw Serenity once at the theater and hasn't bothered to see it again, he was so disappointed. Bought the first comic, read it, and gave it away. He hasn't read any of the rest. Just not his thing. Me, I'm not bouncing-off-the-walls excited, but I'm looking forward to it. He couldn't care less. But he's a Brother in Brown, so it's cool.



MAL "You only gotta scare him."
JAYNE "Pain is scary..."

http://www.fireflytalk.com - Big Damn Podcast

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Saturday, March 29, 2008 12:45 PM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
It's just dark for darkness' sake...at least for me...I like moral ambiguity, but not in EVERYBODY.
Gimme Luke Skywalker, Apollo from the original series, John Sheppard, heck, even Mal isn't so frakked-up...I need a reasonably pure anchor in the storm of gray...

Plus, it's just seeming a little weird...FAT LEE???

If you can get into it, great...like I say, I like Ballistic: Ecks VS Sever, so I'm no judge of guilty pleasures.

Biggest peeve though- WHERE ARE THE GORRAM VIPERS????????????

LOL! Never take a boy's favorite spaceship away...

Darkness for it's own sake? Yeah, I can see that. Still, as RR says, it's just not a humorous show. I think they tried with the cyclon acting as a preacher on Galatica. You know, the actor from Quantum Leap (I don't know how else to ID him -that's the only thing I think of when I see him.) They tried to do a little Whedonesque humor with him, but it didn't seem right to me. Fell flat.

Anyhow, my problems with season 3 came in other places, which I won't spoil for you Chris. But what I've figured is that the show had too many writers and some plotlines that started but didn't get developed. There just isn't one overall vision to hold things together, and that leaves dangly threads and gaps filled with soapy episodes. Still, I'd rather watch that than just about anything else!

And I didn't mind Fat Lee. Just think of it as BSG's version of humor - the really bad fat suit. Oh - but the fat makeup is better than the pinstripe suit they put him in later on. Gawd! It's awful! Gangstuhs-R-Us LOL!

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Saturday, March 29, 2008 1:13 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by DarkJester:


OK Chris, in my book you've given it a good try, and you don't like it - kudos to you for effort

If I hear, like, "OMG, BSG just pulled an amazing comeback in season 4!!!!!" I could be persuaded to go farther, but honestly, I'm expecting "What? Adama a Cylon? And Sharon's FATHER TOO? And everyone on Earth is a CYLON??? So those few thousand last humans go to a new planet called EDEN to start anew???? WTF?????"

That would be the "HOLY S**T" ending I'd expect from Moore at this point....

Preposterous Chrisisall

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Saturday, March 29, 2008 1:54 PM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Sorry guys, but I just watched Exodus 1 & 2...ho hum.

It's all so frakkin convoluted for the sake of effect...


Chris, I usually enjoy your posts even when I don't agree with them, but I'm seriously beginning to question your analytical abilities. You're criticizing BSG for being convoluted, and yet you praise SGA, one of the most contrived SF shows ever produced, so full of technobabble it puts all the combined Trek shows to shame.

I agree with others who admit that there are quite a few BSG episodes that should never have been filmed, but many of the others are some of the best I've ever seen. Yes, it is a downer most of the time, but I can deal with that since in their world it literally is the end of the line that they are facing every day.



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Saturday, March 29, 2008 3:06 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by ecgordon:

Chris, I usually enjoy your posts even when I don't agree with them, but I'm seriously beginning to question your analytical abilities.

I am a biped, after all
Quote:

You're criticizing BSG for being convoluted, and yet you praise SGA, one of the most contrived SF shows ever produced, so full of technobabble it puts all the combined Trek shows to shame.
Yeah, but it's...cool.
Quote:



Yes, it is a downer most of the time, but I can deal with that since in their world it literally is the end of the line that they are facing every day.


I demand much more from a 'serious' series, FF & Dark Angel delivered most, if not all of the time...SGA is just a fun comic book, no more.
BSG is as dopey as SGA, while trying to be more heady than Serenity.
Please.


That's my story; I'm stickin' to it Chrisisall

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Sunday, March 30, 2008 4:59 AM

CHRISISALL


More to pile on:
Why, if they HAD them on New Caprica, did they not STATION Cylon Centurians among them so they couldn't do secret stuff?
Or why not just nuke the site from orbit just to be sure? Oh, 'cause certain Cylons wouldn't want that? Are these the same Cylons that okayed the nuking of the Colonies killing billions?
They have the ability to make themselves 'human'(as much as they desire, anyway) based on earlier genetic experimentation with live human subjects, but for some reason they NEED humans ALIVE NOW?!?!?!?!

Can you say 'desperate bunk'?

Chrisisall

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Sunday, March 30, 2008 4:50 PM

CANTTAKESKY


I really, really liked BSG Seasons 1 and 2. Not as much as FF and Dark Angel. Or Veronic Mars and Angel. Or Dexter and Burn Notice. But more than Heroes and Terminator: SCC. I probably like it as much as Buffy. I don't have cable, so I can only watch them after they come out on DVD.

Here is my question. Is Season 3 worth buying? Or should I just rent?

(I ended up only buying Buffy S. 1 + 2, if that helps your recommendation.)

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Monday, March 31, 2008 7:08 AM

GRIZWALD


From SFSignal:

Quote:

Edward James Olmos on a potential ending for Galactica: Everybody dies. Olmos said this is a possibility if the writers stay true to form and he would be O.K. with that. Of course, the fans wouldn't be... Remember, April 4th at 10pm ET marks the return of Galactica.


___________________________________________________
High Priestess of Pork and Ag-Related Activities of the MYTHICAL LAND OF IOWA

Click on my profile for my Annoyingly Long List of Firefly Links.

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Monday, March 31, 2008 7:55 AM

STORYMARK


Between your perpetual trashing of this great show, and your chamioning of the mediocre dark Angel, I too am questioning your analytical skills, Chris.

For my part, S3 of BSG did have some of the weakest episodes of the series, but what it did right, it did great. I loved the occupation storyline. I appreciate when writers explore current issues through the lens of sci-fi, and I found it to be very compelling drama on it's own terms. The post-occupation stuff back on the ship was really well-played, I felt. It did drag towards the middle of the season, and the big revelation at the end of the season was a bit dubious - but they've earned my trust enough to see where they're taking things.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Monday, March 31, 2008 8:10 AM

PARTICIPANT


The Moist boys are on it

Quote:

10. Actors are not happy

"Michael Hogan is still in denial [about Tigh]. He will not admit he's a Cylon. And as he's an actor, he's really pissed off." – Katee Mancow – 7/29/07, San Diego Comic Con eonline

9. Actors are still not happy

The actors playing Tigh, Chief Tylenol and the other newly revealed Cylons were pissed off, because they had spent so much time building up those characters, Mancow says. "You play for years making choices as a character and then feel those choices would have been different if you'd known." Tigh actor Michael Hogan still hasn't come to terms with the revelation, she said. 3/28/08 io9

8. The ending is "messy"

Some of the show's revelations late in the season will "ruffle some feathers." The show won't have a neat and happy ending, tied up with a bow. Instead, the show, and Starbuck, will have a messy ending, says Mancow. 3/28/08 io9

7. Everyone dies?

"Everybody's dying in season four, and I wouldn't be surprised if the ship was blown apart." - Edward James Olmos 3/24/08 io9

6. Another "shocking twist" looms

"Basically, if it’s true to form, no one makes it….I think that people would be shocked, and they'd be hurt, and they would be totally, totally frustrated," Edward James Olmos 3/28/08 scifiwire

5. Moore didn't have a plan

[Jamie] Bamber mentions in the above clip that even Ron Moore and the other writers had no clue what was going on with Starbuck coming back from the dead, until they started working on season four. – 3/24/08 io9

4. Moore still doesn't have a plan

Mancow says she's "no closer to having any questions answered from last season than I was." She's read the script for episode 15, and there's no resolution to how Starbuck came back from the dead, and what her trip to Earth meant. 3/28/08 io9

3. Moore is changing the non-plan

"[The writers' strike] gave us a chance to step back and say, 'Well, some of those things that we were going to do, maybe that's not the best way to go. Let's go back and change it again. Let's re-break some of the story. It gave us all a chance to really step back, take a breath and say, 'OK, is this really the way we want to do the last 10 or not?' And we changed some of those things on the fly." – Ron Moore 3/27/08 scifiwire

2. Moore's record of scorning fans

“All I know is that everything better track when all is finally revealed, because there’s nothing like a sci-fi fan scorned!” – Aaron Douglas 3/24/08, TV Guide (page 33)

And the Number 1 Reason Season 4 Is Going To Suck

Season 3
http://www.stallioncornell.com/board/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=8274&sid=4ba5
91bdbba13f80025615b46255f111



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Monday, March 31, 2008 8:41 AM

MAL4PREZ


You might want to put spoiler tags on your post participant. Lots of folks haven't watched Season 3 yet!

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Monday, March 31, 2008 8:45 AM

STORYMARK


WARNING: SPOILERS (though the quoted post didn't bother, so if you read this, it's likely too late.









Quote:

Originally posted by participant:
The Moist boys are on it

Quote:

10. Actors are not happy

"Michael Hogan is still in denial [about Tigh]. He will not admit he's a Cylon. And as he's an actor, he's really pissed off." – Katee Mancow – 7/29/07, San Diego Comic Con eonline

9. Actors are still not happy

The actors playing Tigh, Chief Tylenol and the other newly revealed Cylons were pissed off, because they had spent so much time building up those characters, Mancow says. "You play for years making choices as a character and then feel those choices would have been different if you'd known." Tigh actor Michael Hogan still hasn't come to terms with the revelation, she said. 3/28/08 io9



Given that the characters didn't know, it seems like a silly complaint. Letting the actors shape the characters in such a way would be counter to the point.

Quote:

8. The ending is "messy"

Some of the show's revelations late in the season will "ruffle some feathers." The show won't have a neat and happy ending, tied up with a bow. Instead, the show, and Starbuck, will have a messy ending, says Mancow. 3/28/08 io9



Good. I don't want everything tied in a neat little bow. It's been a dark, uncompromising story about genocide. Why should it wrap up with smiles?

Quote:

7. Everyone dies?

"Everybody's dying in season four, and I wouldn't be surprised if the ship was blown apart." - Edward James Olmos 3/24/08 io9



They're ending the story. Makes total sense to me that they'd end up with high casualties, including the ship.

Quote:

6. Another "shocking twist" looms

"Basically, if it’s true to form, no one makes it….I think that people would be shocked, and they'd be hurt, and they would be totally, totally frustrated," Edward James Olmos 3/28/08 scifiwire



Twists are good. Also note that he's just making a guess.

Quote:

5. Moore didn't have a plan

[Jamie] Bamber mentions in the above clip that even Ron Moore and the other writers had no clue what was going on with Starbuck coming back from the dead, until they started working on season four. – 3/24/08 io9



Hmm, not according to Moore. I'll take his word over Bamber's.

Quote:

4. Moore still doesn't have a plan

Mancow says she's "no closer to having any questions answered from last season than I was." She's read the script for episode 15, and there's no resolution to how Starbuck came back from the dead, and what her trip to Earth meant. 3/28/08 io9



Just because she doesn't know the plan, doesn't mean there isn't one. And since episode 15 isn't the end of the show, there's still time to address that story point.

Quote:

3. Moore is changing the non-plan

"[The writers' strike] gave us a chance to step back and say, 'Well, some of those things that we were going to do, maybe that's not the best way to go. Let's go back and change it again. Let's re-break some of the story. It gave us all a chance to really step back, take a breath and say, 'OK, is this really the way we want to do the last 10 or not?' And we changed some of those things on the fly." – Ron Moore 3/27/08 scifiwire



Stories evolve. Every long-running show, even those with a tight plan, changed mid-stream. He had more time to think things over, and apparently came up with new ideas he liked. Should he ignore those ideas, so to comfort nay-sayers, at the cost of a better story?

Quote:

2. Moore's record of scorning fans

“All I know is that everything better track when all is finally revealed, because there’s nothing like a sci-fi fan scorned!” – Aaron Douglas 3/24/08, TV Guide (page 33)



Uh, Moore has a track record of reaching out to, and communicating with fans, more than almost any other showrunner. A TV guide reporter warning against a fan backlash is not a "track record for scorn"...

Quote:

And the Number 1 Reason Season 4 Is Going To Suck

Season 3



Which, while certainly devisive for some, was still well-regarded by many. And even those who didn't like it as much still referred to it as one of the best shows on TV.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Monday, March 31, 2008 8:51 AM

JONGSSTRAW

We carry in our hearts the true country, and that cannot be stolen.


Hey Chris....

Forget that new Battlestar felgercarb!
Put in one of your original Battlestar discs, say the 2-parter "Greetings From Earth". Then you can sit back, relax and enjoy! Enjoy the georgous Kelly Harmon in her silver space suit, enjoy the wonderful dance by Hector & Vector ( Bobby Van & Ray Bolger ), and gasp in fright from the evil guys and their cool ship from the Eastern Alliance.

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Monday, March 31, 2008 10:12 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Hey Chris....

Forget that new Battlestar felgercarb!
Put in one of your original Battlestar discs, say the 2-parter "Greetings From Earth". Then you can sit back, relax and enjoy!

LOL, I actually bought the original series used, and that episode is the only one that doesn't play right due to a scratch- thankfully.

Greetings from Chrisisall

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Monday, March 31, 2008 10:14 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by canttakesky:

Here is my question. Is Season 3 worth buying? Or should I just rent?


My recommendation is rent- if you find yourself still enjoying it after the second disk, just go ahead and buy it.

Answerman Chrisisall

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Monday, March 31, 2008 10:17 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Between your perpetual trashing of this great show, and your chamioning of the mediocre dark Angel, I too am questioning your analytical skills, Chris.


Dark Angel makes BSG look like Space 1999, boo.





Original Cindyisall

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Monday, March 31, 2008 10:34 AM

CHRISISALL


I just read a bunch of stuff about BSG's season four...it might actually be good...

Surprised Chrisisall

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Monday, March 31, 2008 2:39 PM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.


Be careful, Chris. You wouldn't want to say something you'll regret later. Your opinion should be an informed one, not something based on what you've read that someone else has said about the show.

Then again, you did start this thread after watching just the first two episodes of the season, so I guess an informed opinion isn't that much of a concern to you.



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Monday, March 31, 2008 4:15 PM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Dark Angel makes BSG look like Space 1999, boo.

Amen, bro.

So far, the best BSG for me hasn't come close to
Dark Angel.

--------------------------
I made you coffee. That ought to help cope with the injustice of the world a little.
--Max, Dark Angel

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Monday, March 31, 2008 4:47 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by canttakesky:
Amen, bro.

So far, the best BSG for me hasn't come close to
Dark Angel.




Loganisall

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Monday, March 31, 2008 5:35 PM

VETERAN

Don't squat with your spurs on.


They started to lose me once they made Starbuck a woman. And then they made Boomer a woman and a Cylon. I watched the mini-series and first season consistently, the second season occassionally and tuned out sometime after the second episode in season 3. The writers and producers of BSG are typical of the entertainment industry today, they're only creative to the point that they can take someone else's idea and play "what if" with it.

Which makes me want to ask, was franchise was screwed up more creatively? BSG, Starship Troopers, or Enterprise?

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Monday, March 31, 2008 11:03 PM

CALHOUN


Its just you Chrisisall...

As for Dark Angel... I bought both seasons over a year ago after reading some of you rantings about it.. I still havent finished season 2. Its not awful.. but it doesn't come close to BSG even Season 3 of BSG is far superior.

IMO

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Tuesday, April 1, 2008 5:22 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by ecgordon:
Be careful, Chris. You wouldn't want to say something you'll regret later. Your opinion should be an informed one, not something based on what you've read that someone else has said about the show.

It was actually what the actors & writers said about where they're taking it, which sounded somewhat like a possible redemption concerning the loss of direction...


MAYBEisall

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Tuesday, April 1, 2008 5:32 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Calhoun:
Its just you Chrisisall...

Errr, apparently not...
Quote:



As for Dark Angel... I bought both seasons over a year ago after reading some of you rantings about it..

I accept no responsibility here- I bought seasons one & two of Angel for the same reasons & found them to be mostly just okay, nothing I would have shelled out fourty bucks a piece for if I'd known- it just didn't grab me, whacha gonna do?
Quote:

I still havent finished season 2. Its not awful.. but it doesn't come close to BSG even Season 3 of BSG is far superior.

IMO

The worst ep of Dark Angel (and season two has it's share) still engages me on an honest human level more than the best of BSG- the characters in BSG seem like dark partial sketches to me- I never felt like I really knew any of them, and that's NOT the fault of the excellent cast IMO.
Moore is less.

Chrisisall

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Tuesday, April 1, 2008 6:10 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Veteran:
The writers and producers of BSG are typical of the entertainment industry today, they're only creative to the point that they can take someone else's idea and play "what if" with it.



You must not like Firefly much, either. Cuase as cool as it was, it wasn't exactly original.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Tuesday, April 1, 2008 7:46 AM

VETERAN

Don't squat with your spurs on.


Oh? Sorry, I didn't know that there was a show previously named Firefly with an established storyline and characters that Joss hijacked? No doubt Joss was insprired by an number of different stories and characters, but he didn't get everything from one place and simply rewrite random aspects of it just to make it different enough so he could consider himself creative in his own mind.

I suppose you could make the case nothing's original, shoot Shakespeare lifted stories and characters from a number of sources. But there's a difference.

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Tuesday, April 1, 2008 8:27 AM

STORYMARK


That's not what I said, but thanks for being so knee-jerk. My point was, the scapce-western has been done, many times. Some of the characters are very familliar (how many times has Nathan Fillion said flat-out that he was essentially playing Han Solo?)

Firefly took existing ideas, and made a semi-new premise of them. With BSG, they used the basic premise, and the names, then developed new ideas within that frame. Six of one, half-dozen of the other. Different approaches to re-interpreting something that has been done before.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Wednesday, April 2, 2008 10:28 AM

IMNOTHERE


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
More to pile on:
Why, if they HAD them on New Caprica, did they not STATION Cylon Centurians among them so they couldn't do secret stuff?
Cylons that okayed the nuking of the Colonies killing billions?
They have the ability to make themselves 'human'(as much as they desire, anyway) based on earlier genetic experimentation with live human subjects, but for some reason they NEED humans ALIVE NOW?!?!?!?!



I don't think you have been following the plot...

The Cylons have a religion in which their human creators are involved, somehow - and they're a bit screwed up over it.
They are also strongly factionalised (mainly along "model" lines).

Its was established in S2 that one faction among the Cylons (in which Boomer Mk 1 and Caprica 6 were instrumental) which denounced the initial genocide had gained influence. The pro-genocide factions haven't gone away - and have clearly regained some influence by the time the Cylons discover New Caprica.

The sort of contradictions you point out are exactly the half-assed mess you would expect to see as the result of a political compromise between one faction wanting to "live in harmony" with humans and another wanting to destroy them.

Perhaps you're just insufficiently cynical and jaded about human nature to appreciate BSG?

Quote:


Dark Angel makes BSG look like Space 1999, boo.



Careful there: there were two seasons of "Space 1999":

Season one was dark, mysterious, moody and pretty wonderful* with terrific (for the time) FX. Be rude about that and I'll start trying really hard to find bad things to say about Dark Angel.

Season two was a pile of transparently Trek-derivative go-se (they'd even managed to wreck the theme tune) which bears comparison with Galactica 1980.

(* provided you draw a kindly veil over the science. Gerry Anderson never was at home to Messers Newton or Einstein - DO NOT hire him to fit windows to your moon base unless you want them to open outwards!)



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Wednesday, April 2, 2008 10:36 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by ImNotHere:

(* provided you draw a kindly veil over the science. Gerry Anderson never was at home to Messers Newton or Einstein - DO NOT hire him to fit windows to your moon base unless you want them to open outwards!)



LOL!!!

hehehehehChrisisall

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Wednesday, April 2, 2008 12:12 PM

STINKINGROSE


I'm in the middle of season 3 right now. Just got to the "boxing" ep.

The commentary touches on "Fat Lee" briefly. It was yet another dead end they took the character down, apparently. (The writers seem to be scratching their heads and wondering why they did it too.)
I did love the job they did with the makeup on that one.

They used footage that they'd shot for "Unfinished Business" (afore mentioned boxing ep), which they'd shot knowing that they'd never rebuild that huge set for New Caprica again, and just said "let's get some shots like this that we can use for something eventually later on, what stories might we tell about the missing year...", and then let things roll.
Then they used them for the flashbacks.

The season started out making me think that it was pretty dark, even for BSG, and then it got a little more hopeful. I'd definitely agree that there was probably a little... okay a lot.. of sociopolitical commentary seeping in at the edges for a while there.
I'm not sure where they're going yet, and the writers may not be either. I'm still Netflixing the seasons as they become available, or I may resort to the library system if they get hold of discs first somehow.

Remind me to read threads with my fingers across the screen in case anybody decides to, say, TELL WHO ALL THE FRAKKING CYLONS ARE IN A THREAD ON SEASON 3 OR SOMETHING!!!!

(ahem.)

I'll just try to forget the foreshadowing shall I?
Frankly I always assumed that Tigh's wife was a cylon, but Tyrol never even entered my mind as a possibility. So unless the perky little mechanic is also a Cylon there's more than 1 cylon/human child floating around out there. Unless I misread the spoilers.

Anyway, it's all just TV trying to entertain and engender thoughtful discourse.

But yeah, it's leaving me a little flat. Feels like it's flailing around a bit.

I'm having fun watching the crowd scenes to play "Spot Troy!". (Canadian browncoat who is an extra on the show)

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Wednesday, April 2, 2008 1:04 PM

VETERAN

Don't squat with your spurs on.


You're quite welcome, it's a specialty.

Can't say I've ever heard Nathan say he was Han Solo, I'll have to take your word for it. Frankly I don't see it, Han just doesn't come off near as dark as Mal. I've always felt the best model for Mal was Ethan Edwards from John Ford's The Searchers.

Aside from animated series what other Space-westerns have you seen? I've heard that Star Trek was pitched as "Wagon Train to the Stars" but never felt that comparison made any sense. "Hornblower in Space" I grok, fully ..."Wagon Train" not so much. I'll concede that Outland with Sean Connery was Highnoon in Space. But I'd be interested in other examples, they might be worth a watch or a read.

Regarding your last point, everybody borrows. Shakespeare borrowed. Robert Heinlein makes fun of the borrowing process. Joss said he was inspired to create Firefly after reading a The Killer Angels. But, some of these 'remakes' like BSG and Starship Troopers go beyond inspiration. What's the point of taking the premise and the names and then making something so completely different that it runs against the core ideas of the original. It's like the authors of these things are out there trying to rewrite our memories. I don't like it.

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Wednesday, April 2, 2008 1:37 PM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Veteran:
You're quite welcome, it's a specialty.

Can't say I've ever heard Nathan say he was Han Solo, I'll have to take your word for it. Frankly I don't see it, Han just doesn't come off near as dark as Mal. I've always felt the best model for Mal was Ethan Edwards from John Ford's The Searchers.

Aside from animated series what other Space-westerns have you seen? I've heard that Star Trek was pitched as "Wagon Train to the Stars" but never felt that comparison made any sense. "Hornblower in Space" I grok, fully ..."Wagon Train" not so much. I'll concede that Outland with Sean Connery was Highnoon in Space. But I'd be interested in other examples, they might be worth a watch or a read.



Well, the animated ones are definitely a strong example, so I dn't think they should be discounted. You've mentioned others as well. If you want to break it down to the episodes - train heists, have been done a thousand times. Hell, "Heart of Gold" acknowledges in the title that they're treading familliar ground - the hooker with a hert of gold story. As for the Han Solo comment, I've read it in interviews, and I think on one of the commentaries he mentions it.

Quote:

Regarding your last point, everybody borrows. Shakespeare borrowed. Robert Heinlein makes fun of the borrowing process. Joss said he was inspired to create Firefly after reading a The Killer Angels. But, some of these 'remakes' like BSG and Starship Troopers go beyond inspiration. What's the point of taking the premise and the names and then making something so completely different that it runs against the core ideas of the original. It's like the authors of these things are out there trying to rewrite our memories. I don't like it.



Exactly, everyone borrows. In the case of BSG, they borrowed names, but created entirely new stories. And it's the stories that I care about - not some nostalgic connection to a 30-year old cult show. If someone comes along in 30 years and does a new show called Firefly about a misfit crew with a Captain named Mal, and turn Book or Jayne into a girl, I'll still watch it - if the story is good. It won't rewrite my memories. It's not like the crew of the new BSG are running out destroying the DVD's of the old show. And realistically, when a reimagining/remake happens, it books the sales of the original, so really it does quite the opposite of what you suggest.

You may not like it, that's your perrogotive - but a lot of us could care less. If they tell a good story, they're aces with me.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Thursday, April 3, 2008 4:51 AM

IMNOTHERE


Quote:

Originally posted by stinkingrose:
So unless the perky little mechanic is also a Cylon there's more than 1 cylon/human child floating around out there. Unless I misread the spoilers.



I don't have an episode guide and a calendar to hand, but didn't she get raped by one of the convicts in an earlier show?


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Thursday, April 3, 2008 4:24 PM

VETERAN

Don't squat with your spurs on.


Quote:

You may not like it, that's your perrogotive - but a lot of us could care less.


And a lot of us do care. In the end, what can I say - they own the rights.

Quote:

If they tell a good story, they're aces with me.


All in the eyes of the beholder. Inspite of my reservations about the character changes, they had me interested with the mini-series. But once the series started the episodes just went down hill and they lost me shortly into the 2nd season.

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Thursday, April 3, 2008 5:21 PM

STINKINGROSE


Almost, but they rescued her in the nick of time.

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Thursday, April 3, 2008 5:31 PM

EMPIREX


Quote:

Originally posted by ImNotHere:
Quote:

Originally posted by stinkingrose:
So unless the perky little mechanic is also a Cylon there's more than 1 cylon/human child floating around out there. Unless I misread the spoilers.



I don't have an episode guide and a calendar to hand, but didn't she get raped by one of the convicts in an earlier show?




Attempted rape. Cally bit his ear off.



"Can you, for a moment, imagine how depressing it is to teach one thousand years of masculine ineptitude? Why do you think there are so few women historians? I'll tell you why. Because history is not such a frolic for women as it is for men... History is a commentary on the various and continuing incapabilities of men. History is women following behind with a bucket and a mop." - Alan Bennett, "The History Boys"

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Friday, April 4, 2008 11:39 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Veteran:
Quote:

You may not like it, that's your perrogotive - but a lot of us could care less.


And a lot of us do care. In the end, what can I say - they own the rights.

Quote:

If they tell a good story, they're aces with me.


All in the eyes of the beholder. Inspite of my reservations about the character changes, they had me interested with the mini-series. But once the series started the episodes just went down hill and they lost me shortly into the 2nd season.



Fair enough. There are those who don't like Firefly, either.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Monday, April 7, 2008 11:11 AM

JAYNEZTOWN


The fans are saying Cally, Cavil and Simon are next to die.....these guys are number 1 leader in the deadpool
which is a shame since I find Apollo Adama and Starbuck Thrace to be way more annoying.



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Monday, April 7, 2008 12:41 PM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.


It wouldn't bother me at all to see Cally go, but since Cavil and Simon are both Cylons their deaths wouldn't mean very much. They'd just be back again next week.



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