OTHER SCIENCE FICTION SERIES

So, who's going to see the Transformers film?

POSTED BY: GUYWHOWANTSAFIREFLYOFHISOWN
UPDATED: Saturday, July 14, 2007 04:36
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Friday, June 29, 2007 4:24 PM

GUYWHOWANTSAFIREFLYOFHISOWN


Title says it all


who's going, who's not, and if not, then why?

Why is the rum always gone?

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Friday, June 29, 2007 4:57 PM

GOMITHROUS


I am so going, the day after it comes out. For two reasons. Reason #1: To avoid the mobs of people and sweaty crowded theatre's on the very first day. Reason #2: Because the final episodes of 'Drive' are airing on F*X that very same day. I haven't looked much into teh movie other than the trailers but it looks freakin' awesome and I think Tom Lenk is in it, though I am too lazy to check IMDb I think I saw him in one of the trailers.

What is best in life?
To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you and to hear the lamentation of their women...

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Friday, June 29, 2007 5:16 PM

STEGASAURUS


I ain't gonna miss it! I may wait a few days though, because EVERYONE I know is goin' to see it either opening day or the next. Our theaters are gonna be packed!

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Friday, June 29, 2007 6:30 PM

BLACKBEANIE


I'm going to see it tomorrow. Can't wait.


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Friday, June 29, 2007 7:50 PM

SIGMANUNKI


As soon as the fat sweaty guy that always sits beside me, the annoying people that constantly kick the back of my seat and those others that can't keep there bloody mouth shut during the movie don't show up, I'll be there. So no, not going.

Until these people aren't there, it'll be DVD release or on TV for me.

----
I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

http://www.newsoftheverse.net
Searching the 'Verse so you don't have to.

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Saturday, June 30, 2007 2:17 AM

EVILDINOSAUR


I'll see it, big transforming robots fighting eachother, sounds like a good time to me. I never really watched any of the cartoons or anything so I have no expectations for the movie to live up to, so I'll give it a try.

"Haha, mine is an evil laugh."

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Saturday, June 30, 2007 6:59 AM

CYBERSNARK


I'll be seeing it on Tuesday.

It's playing on Monday, but so is Dr. Who, and I still can't record. Besides, I didn't get advance tickets, so Mnday may be sold out.

Stupid people who went to stupid Botcon got to see it yesterday.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Sunday, July 1, 2007 3:58 AM

BLACKBEANIE


Just saw it a few hours ago.
It. Was. Awesome!


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Monday, July 2, 2007 1:15 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.


I'll be seeing it this coming weekend.

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Monday, July 2, 2007 3:38 AM

FINN MAC CUMHAL


I’d really fully decided against seeing this film, since the whole concept seems flaky. Evan as a cartoon, I thought it seemed stupid. It was a gimmick designed to sell toys to 8 year olds. Sort of like the ridiculous Mortal Kombat movie, that got, deservingly, a 20% on the RT meter and went down as one of the worlds' worst films. Exactly how on earth do you sell this ridiculous idea to a PG-13 crowd?

I don’t know, but evidently, they’ve done it, somehow. This seemingly stupid movie has gotten a 70% on the RT meter. This makes me feel frightened and confused and I’m not sure at this point if I will go see, but I can’t say that I won’t.



Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

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Monday, July 2, 2007 4:13 AM

TINADOLL


I am not going to see it.

Movies are too dang expensive in NY (10-12 bucks a pop) and the crowds are going to ruin the experience( the sheer number of people-not the reactions) I prefer to wait a week for two.

Also- Its summer- I rather go to the beach until a really really hot day,then i'll go see a movie.

Scorpion:

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Monday, July 2, 2007 6:03 AM

MSG


MisterG and I are going:)

"I'm not all that interested in the mental health of people who want to kill me. "- Leroy Jethro Gibbs


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Wednesday, July 4, 2007 2:08 PM

FISKMASEN


It was freaking awesome.

"My cartridge fell out of my gun..." - Nathan Fillion

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Wednesday, July 4, 2007 2:57 PM

GUYWHOWANTSAFIREFLYOFHISOWN


YES IT WAS!!!!!!!!!!!

Select to view spoiler:


shame about Jazz, though.



Why is the rum always gone?

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Wednesday, July 4, 2007 6:08 PM

SINGATE


Almost went today, er yesterday I mean, but the line was out the door for each showing. Four screens no less! Instead ended up seeing Fantastic Four again because the people I was with had been wanting to see it. Never realized July 4th would be such a big draw at the box office. Guess I'll be seeing it over the weekend.

_________________________________________________

We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.

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Thursday, July 5, 2007 4:52 AM

CYBERSNARK


Saw it on Tuesday. It was mediocre (which is actually quite good, compared to most TF fiction ).

The good bits included Cullen, Shia, and even Meghan's performances. Frenzy stealing the show, the franchise, and possibly the whole universe. And raping the Internet.

My initial fears about Michael Bay's directing were borne out: I honestly have no clue what happened during the action sequences. All I could see was rapid-fire blurs, extreeeeeeeeeeeeeem close-ups, explosions, more blurs, and Ironhide yelling "Run, Sam!"

The plotting and establishing shots were also amateurish, typical of Bay. This movie (like all sci-fi blockbusters) needed a sense of scale, and Bay just can't convey that. There's no dynamism in his composition; everything is either a static long-shot or a close-up that crops out any scale references or depth of field.

Ironhide, Jazz, and Ratchet all sounded basically alike, and Jazz' voice was way too deep for such a small bot (and way too histrionic for such a laid-back character). This is why I was excited to see Phil Lamarr's name attached to Animated --he's perfect for Jazz.

The CGI had the same weightless and overwrought quality as it does in almost every movie (Zoic's stuff being the exception). I know TFs can move quickly, but they should still have some kind of weight when they come down. Jazz was clambering all over everything like he thought he was Spiderman. And, like all motion-captured humanoids, TFs never turn their heads when they can turn their heads, shrug, flinch, and gesticulate at the same time.

I'm also disappointed at the lack of Decepticon characterization. Starscream in particular had every excuse to be front-and-centre, communicating through people's phonelines without revealing himself, manipulating the situation to his own advantage, not just sitting back and letting everything play out.

What this movie really needed was to succeed on two levels; it needed to be both Epic and Character-driven. Bay just can't do it. Bay is obvious. He hits the audience over the head with everything: music cues, action sequences, the aforementioned static-framed long shots (no dynamic angles, no panning or zooming or scaling or anything to make the establishing shots visually interesting), the cardboard characters.

Where Bay falls completely flat is on the Character scale. Character cannot be demonstrated by over-the-top action. Characterization works best when it's subtle. A gesture, a look, a single word can speak volumes.

You don't need Ratchet talking about Sam & Mikaela's pheromones (in what way is that possibly relevant to their mission?), or the pee jokes, or the robot-mode Autobots stomping around Sam's front yard. We know the situation is serious, and we know the Transformers are too big to move around human environments. What we don't know is who Jazz is, or anything about Ironhide other than the fact that he's got guns, or why Ratchet is in any way formidable, or how Optimus relates to his troops as people.

We also didn't need all the fat: the unfunny jokes, the incompetent Sector Seven guys, the utterly needless hacker subplot. . .

As for the Decepticons, a little more subtle directing between Starscream and Megatron (focusing on Starscream's deliberate uninvolvement during the Prime/Megatron fight) could have worked wonders.

Depending on time, I may fanfic a new plot, like I did for X3 and the Star Wars prequels. I have this whole other idea for the final battle (one that doesn't involve bringing the massive alien death robots into a crowded city expressly so they can kill more bystanders ).

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Thursday, July 5, 2007 5:09 AM

PDCHARLES

What happened? He see your face?


WOW, CS!!! I was just thinkin' what review I should write.

I saw it Tues. night and have to agree on every friggin' point.

and yes, My god that Sector 7 guy was horrible.


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Thursday, July 5, 2007 5:12 AM

SISTER


Saw it at the new Drive-In (no sweaty folk other than those you know...!)in our little tiny Tennessee town on Tuesday night!! (Oh, and it was on a double-bill with room 1408 for five bucks a head!!))...AWESOME SPECIAL EFFECTS... not a bad storyline...just a fun, summer movie... and now my husband wants a car/transformer of his very own!

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Thursday, July 5, 2007 5:33 AM

STEGASAURUS


I'd have to respectfully disagree with you, Cybersnark.

I found the entire movie to be completely engrosing and entertaining. The mindset I realized I had to go in with was that I was going to be watching a cartoon.

Realizing that they were not going to stay true to the original cartoons of the 80's, I knew that the plot, the characters and the action were going to be just like watching a cartoon.

I was able to wrap my mind around everything and everyone in the movie (and yes, even the over-the-top Sector 7 jackass) and found the movie to be just pure fun.

Now, with regards to the action scenes, I will agree with you. There was at least one point where I was unable to distinguish between Prime and Megatron. And on more than one scene, I had to look away to keep myself from getting dizzy. I had the same experience during Blade 2 when Blade was fighting the vampire princess in front of the "wall-o-lights". Too much CGI close up does not agree with my head.

But again, I have to say, overall I thoroughly enjoyed this movie. It was smart enough for grown-up transformer fans, but scaled back enough for the kids to get into it.

I give it a 10 out of 10 on my movies of the summer list.

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Thursday, July 5, 2007 6:08 AM

KINETIC


Agree with Stego, can't go in looking for the Oscar winner. Need to go in looking to see a fun, "take your brain out and put it on the seat next to you" movie. If you don't have the ability to do that you need to stay home.

You can't dislike the story and blame the director, it was written by Roberto Orci and John Rogers.

The "Sector 7 guy" was John Turturro, an excellent actor. I agree he was over the top; but feel that was what the role demanded.

I found the special effects fine in scale and was interested in your interpretation of the physics... "How exactly does a 12 ton robot hit the ground?"

Those of us who know the franchise will appreciate the homage paid to the old cartoons/comic and the previous film.

I thought the humor, with the exception of Anthony Anderson, was great. That said, I cant figure out why he or the other girl were in the film.

Select to view spoiler:


The ending left some to be desired with the "end" of Megatron. No way that kid takes him out.



It would be hard to argue that this is the beginning of a franchise. It has almost already grossed what it cost to make. I look forward to TF2.

___________________________

"One shall stand, one shall fall."
OP 1986, 2007

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Thursday, July 5, 2007 6:41 AM

STEGASAURUS


One thing I liked that I heard so much complaining about prior to seeing it was the way they did Prime's face.

Yeah he had a mouth in the movie, and that just didn't feel right...until the battle scene's. Then the plates that covered his mouth and nose came up. I thought that was an awesome tip of the hat to the cartoons.

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Thursday, July 5, 2007 8:23 AM

CYBERSNARK


I get the whole "check your brain at the door" aspect. I guess I'm just burned out that that last three Transformers stories (Armada, Energon, and Cybertron) were utter garbage, and the one before them (Robots in Disguise) was mediocre at best. Especially after the absolute brilliance of the Beast-era.

[aside]
Not to mention that I've never understood why it should be in any way necessary or even acceptable to sacrifice quality and story logic in favour of "entertainment." I've always found well-told, coherent, and cohesive stories to be every bit as enjoyable as "mindless" entertainment. I don't like switching my mind off.
[/aside]

Transformers lends itself so perfectly to high-concept science-fiction (war drama, interstellar conflict, romance, comedy, the nature of the soul/spark), but nobody ever does anything with it (not since Beast Machines, anyway). It seems doomed to always be typecast as "something for the little kiddies." The movie was originally hyped to be something that would introduce Transformers to a more adult story, but it ended up just being the same old kiddie stuff, just with 40% more Extreeeeeeemm!!!(tm)

Ultimately, this move wasn't really different than a thousand other movies I've seen (and will see in the future), just with added Transformers. It wasn't really bad, it was just. . . not what it could've been.

Quote:

Originally posted by Kinetic:
You can't dislike the story and blame the director, it was written by Roberto Orci and John Rogers.
[. . .]
I found the special effects fine in scale and was interested in your interpretation of the physics...


Rogers, Orci, Kurtzman, and a host of other script-doctors, actually. All of them beholden to over-opinionated producers and loudmouthed, whiny fanboys (a good chunk of the cheese in this was how contrived everything was to shoehorn G1 references in --about a third of Prime's dialogue was soundbytes from the original series). And the Director does have say over how the story progresses, especially a director with as much clout as Bay.

It wasn't the scale of the FX (which I admit were beautifully-integrated), it was things like camera angles and frame composition (which are the purview of the director).

Remember the "reveal" of the ten-story-tall Allspark cube?

A straight-on shot, with the whole cube visible, and some tiny walkways holding tiny people. We quickly cut to a close-up of characters delivering dialogue, before the actual size of the Allspark has any time to register. We might as well be looking at a schematic diagram.

There are certain tricks to establishing scale; one of them is to have something in the foreground, or something moving from foreground to background, or angle the shot so that the focal object is skewed. Anything to establish some sort of point of reference and depth.

Compare this, frex, to Joss' work. Whenever we see a huge Reaver ship, or the lost city on Miranda, or Niska's skyplex, there's either Serenity herself to privide scale, or the camera is looking "up" or panning over the subject, or it lingers over the view long enough for it to sink in.

Same thing with the Transformers themselves: What we saw were usually just close-ups on a TF's head, then a close-up on a human with someone's knee or ankle in the background. How many shots were there where we got to see a full-body view, interacting with the environment (that lasted more than one second --fight sequences don't count). I can only recall a few (Bumblebee at the junkyard with his Botsignal, the introductions, the tableau of all the Autobots lounging around Sam's yard, Ice-Megatron's introduction, and the final scene of Prime on the hill).

Ice-Megatron is a good example: We see him from below, with the humans in the foreground (good), then cut to a human reaction shot (okay), then a close-up on Megatron (bad), then close-ups on all the humans as they speak (bad). There should've been a few wide-angle shots to show the size of the room, and maybe a crane shot, looking down from Megatron's perspective.

When he awoke, again: close on the guy standing between his legs, pan up, then cut to close-ups on Megatron's head and shoulders.

Quote:

"How exactly does a 12 ton robot hit the ground?"
The same way humans do; bending ankles, knees, and hips to absorb the impact. We compress ourselves (coiling muscles) before we jump, dive, or tumble.

Jazz in particular was clambering all over everything, with no real reflection of how his weight and mass would move (doesn't matter how strong he is, there's inertia to think of), or how he could be maintaining a grip, or how the surfaces he was on would react to his weight. Spiderman can get away with it because he's human-size and average weight (and wall-crawling is an established part of his abilities), but with something the size of TFs (even as small as Jazz), I expect to see joints and mechanisms working.

I mean, if it was a plot-point that such-and-such could do it, then fine, but it never really mattered to the story. Jazz could easily have kept his feet on the ground most of the time and it wouldn't have changed anything.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Thursday, July 5, 2007 9:28 AM

REGINAROADIE


I saw it on Monday night.

I dunno. I think I'm more of the audience this movie was targeted to. I never played with Transformers as a kid and never saw the cartoons or anything like that, so I ultimately didn't care about the liberties that they took with the source material.

Admittedly there were a few shots and reveals that Bay screwed up with, but I read in Ebert's review that Bay at heart isn't a fantasist. He's a demolition guy more interested in the artistry of giant robots beating the crap out of each other than some hokey "allspark" cube thing. I personally think that any of the more interesting and human aspects of the movie is probably Spielberg's influence. That being said, I actually do think the Autobots had personality, I did feel something when Bumblebee was almost destroyed, I thought Shia succeeded admirably in the thankless job of injecting some actual human emotion into it, and oddly enough I didn't mind the whole military angle, which normally is a big issue for me. Maybe it's because my brother's in Afghanistan, so I can't really slam the military anymore. I guess I realize now that soldiers are more or less working class guys, and the real blame should be on the crooked administration giving them orders. Or the fact that the soldier's are battling giant robots instead of slaughtering innocent women and children.

So all in all, I found it to be very enjoyable.

And Cybersnark, you are taking it WAY too seriously. You're making it sound like THE IRON GIANT.

**************************************************
"The Transformers were a total slight against God. In as much as God sent his only begotten son to die on the cross to redeem mankind and all we did to pay him back was make terrible fucking cartoons, like the Transformers."

Randal Graves in CLERKS II

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Thursday, July 5, 2007 10:21 AM

CYBERSNARK


Well, I'm about to start film school on Monday, so filmmaking is serious business for me.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Sunday, July 8, 2007 2:12 PM

SINGATE


I agree with Cybersnark on a few points but this being a summer movie I'm not feeling overly critical.

Both Autobots and Decepticons needed more character development. The Decepticons had what, 10 lines of dialogue in the entire film? On the flip side there were way too many human characters being developed in the film. We really didn't need so many humans being thrown into the story, this is The Transformers movie after all.

My only other real gripe is that there is too much humor in the film. Granted, it's a kiddie cartoon movie but they could have dialed it down a few notches.

Having seen the original TV series in the wayback I had some concerns over the new characters designs. The only one that felt off was Megatron. If it hadn't been made clear who he was I never would have recognized him. One other thing, in the film there was a Decepticon by the name Devestator. If I'm not mistaken wasn't that the merged form of the Constructicons in the old cartoon series? That was a little odd.

Here's a minor gripe. I would have prefered if the Transformers had utilized more energy weapons, about 90% of the fighting was either projectile weaponry or hand to hand.

The positves far outweigh the negatives. Top notch CGI, great action sequences, and some really cool looking rides. As to the last part I don't know if I've ever seen more blatant product placement in a film. Chevy and Pontiac must be hoping to score big.

_________________________________________________

We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.

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Sunday, July 8, 2007 2:21 PM

GUYWHOWANTSAFIREFLYOFHISOWN


Quote:

Originally posted by singate:

One other thing, in the film there was a Decepticon by the name Devestator. If I'm not mistaken wasn't that the merged form of the Constructicons in the old cartoon series? That was a little odd.




It says on wikipidia's page for Devastator that they made a mistake when doing the subtitles, and that the character was supposed to be named Brawl.

Why is the rum always gone?

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Sunday, July 8, 2007 4:14 PM

CYBERSNARK


Which is actually kinda META. Except for the Beast Era, every TF series (including G1) has had some kind of name screwup (usually the result of characters having different names in the Japanese and English dubs).

It just wouldn't feel like Transformers without a name screwup.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Sunday, July 8, 2007 7:37 PM

SINGATE


I've got a couple more questions.

Was there any footage at the end of the credits?

Select to view spoiler:


I saw the interview with Sam's parents but didn't stay beyond that. Was there anything important such as Megatron flickering back to life during his descent? I find it hard to believe that is dead after only one film.



Is it just me or did the trailers before the movie pretty much suck? That bizarre hand held mystery trailer was the only thing semi-interesting. Wonder what the hell that one is about.

_________________________________________________

We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.

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Monday, July 9, 2007 2:19 AM

CYBERSNARK


Select to view spoiler:


The credits had a scene of Starscream exiting Earth's atmosphere for parts unknown-but-probably-not-good.

Apparently you can see something falling off of him as he configures for spaceflight. Sadly, there's no Mal-esque "What was that?" line, so it's probably not a Serenity reference.



The J.J. Abrams movie is apparently called Cloverfield (possibly only in the same way that one of George Lucas' movies was called Blue Harvest ). Two websites are up: www.EthanHaaswasright.com, and www.EthanHaaswaswrong.blogspot.com. The first one has a puzzle that leads to raw video footage.

Rumours abound that it could be a "Call of Cthulu" movie.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Monday, July 9, 2007 5:20 AM

ZEEK


I was pretty unimpressed.

Select to view spoiler:


I agree about the transformers themselves not getting enough characterization. They were just background characters for the most part. Which is annoying considering the movie is titled Transformers. There were a lot of scenes that could have gone away to leave time to grow the transformers role. We didn't need the whole long scene of looking for the glasses, autobots crushing the garden and the parents asking the kid if he was having fun time. Thanks but no thanks. The hacker subplot was annoying as well. It didn't move the plot along at all. Also "only one hacker in the world can break this code"...good thing he lives two blocks away. That was dumb. But speaking of dumb. "We kept this giant robot cryogenicly frozen and used him to reverse engineer stuff like the car". You had cryogenic freezing processes before the car!?! And what we decided to send that technology off to germany cause we didn't want to profit from it? Also let me end with "can you hotwire that computer overthere?" hotwire? computer?


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Tuesday, July 10, 2007 3:34 AM

FINN MAC CUMHAL


It’s better then I thought it would be and there were some scenes that were nothing short of amazing, but any movie that I’m glad to get out of can’t be all that great. The movie constantly undermined itself. Part of the problem is that I fail the demographic test. I missed the Transformer era by about two or three years. My brother would probably have cut out a lung for this movie.

It started off great with an attack on a USAF base in Qatar. The attack by some evil Transformer type (I’m not going to try to name anything) was an experience in itself. In fact most of the Transformer scenes were pretty spectacular. The CGI was flawless and completely believable. The talking though was annoying – it gave the Transformers a bit of a GI-Joe-ish appeal, diminishing their imposing otherworldliness. I was somewhat intrigued by the anti-authority dichotomy of shape between two Transformer types: the good transformers were all represented by private automobile types, but the bad transformers were represented by military and police vehicles. It’s an observation that is probably obvious to the broader Transformer fans and one that probable existed in the original Hasbro toy line, but one I found curious.

The human characters are much less interesting. Shia LaBeouf is an excellent actor, but he was mediocre here. I’ve always thought LaBeouf would go far in Hollywood since I thought he was an exceptional actor even as a kid, but I’m not sure he’s action-hero material. Perhaps he’s too tied into playing the mischievous sidekick. Megan Fox was okay too, but she looked nothing like an 11th grader and casting her probably had a lot more to do with pandering to the target audience. I was marginally intrigued by the 80-ish feel to the movie. The quirky family of the nerdy boy and the bigger-then-life, deeply covert American military on the brink of world-wide nuclear war could have been taking right out of War Games. War Games is one of my all time favorites, but the Cold War is over and it just doesn’t have the same impact today.

The biggest problem was that it was way, way too long. Truth be told it would probably have been a great movie if they had left more on the cutting room floor. It’s not the quality of the scenes was lacking necessarily, just that a movie about transforming GI Joe robots has no right being that long. My biggest problem was that two-thirds the way into the film I was desperate to leave. I probably could have been persuaded to keep my interest a little longer if the human character scenes had been more interesting or if the Transformers didn’t talk like GI Joe characters, but in the end none of the problems with this movie were particularly bad; it was just too long.



Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

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Tuesday, July 10, 2007 11:01 AM

CRUITHNE3753


Hmmmm... Nah.

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Tuesday, July 10, 2007 12:40 PM

FREMDFIRMA


I got dragged to it by the girl, Cybersnark did a pretty good job of banging it on it's flaws, but yanno, in spite of all that... I liked it, really.

Well worth the six bucks I paid, even with the kid kicking the back of my seat, grrrr.

The army guys were pretty realistic, and a kind of side nod to GI Joe by the production team, I think.
(And I wasn't the only one who called out "Yay, go spooky!" either..)

Pity starscream didn't get more dialogue, but the original voice actor cacked in in 1994, and he had this PERFECT nasty-whiny voice for him.

Pete Cullen totally brings it for Optimus, NOBODY else can really "do" Optimus, just something about his voice, I dunno...if honor itself had a voice, it'd be Optimus Prime.

It's not perfect, and a bit too violent for PG-13 in my opinion, but it's definately a step above the usual hollywood crap, and well worth what I paid to see it - not sure if some of the stuff is gonna carry well to DVD unless you got a real nice audio system with a big TV.

I'm surprised the LAPD didn't try to hire Blockade, talk about takin "Bad Cop" to the next level, yeesh.

So go see it, it's entertaining enough for the price.

-F

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Tuesday, July 10, 2007 12:50 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

I was somewhat intrigued by the anti-authority dichotomy of shape between two Transformer types: the good transformers were all represented by private automobile types, but the bad transformers were represented by military and police vehicles. It’s an observation that is probably obvious to the broader Transformer fans and one that probable existed in the original Hasbro toy line, but one I found curious.

Finn, as I understand it, not having been a huge fan, but having seen/read a bit of the stuff in my time, the Decepticons originally were military in nature, and more or less things started off with what amounted to a military coup, and the Autobots originally were primarily civvies, a basic theme throughout which is carried over through most storylines, with the Decepticons being somewhat more of a rigid heirarchy and more organized, versus the Autobots being less authoritarian and based on Prime's leadership by example.

So yeah, good spot on that, and it's an intentional recurring theme, I think.

-F

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Tuesday, July 10, 2007 3:08 PM

CYBERSNARK


What Fremdfirma said.

In the TV continuity (*) the Decepticons were created (by the alien Quintessons) as military hardware, while the Autobots were consumer goods. The Evil police car is new though; civil defense used to be the province of the Autobots (most notably in Prowl, G1 Optimus Prime's second in command, who turned into a police car).

(* The other G1 continuity is the comics, which has Autobots and Decepticons being created literal "machinae ex deus" by Primus, with the Autobot/Decepticon divide being mostly political. In this continuity, "Prime" is a religious title --bearer of Primus' Matrix.)

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Tuesday, July 10, 2007 7:20 PM

FINN MAC CUMHAL


Quote:

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Quote:

I was somewhat intrigued by the anti-authority dichotomy of shape between two Transformer types: the good transformers were all represented by private automobile types, but the bad transformers were represented by military and police vehicles. It’s an observation that is probably obvious to the broader Transformer fans and one that probable existed in the original Hasbro toy line, but one I found curious.

Finn, as I understand it, not having been a huge fan, but having seen/read a bit of the stuff in my time, the Decepticons originally were military in nature, and more or less things started off with what amounted to a military coup, and the Autobots originally were primarily civvies, a basic theme throughout which is carried over through most storylines, with the Decepticons being somewhat more of a rigid heirarchy and more organized, versus the Autobots being less authoritarian and based on Prime's leadership by example.

So yeah, good spot on that, and it's an intentional recurring theme, I think.

Okay. That explains it.

I never quite got into the Transformers, and we didn’t own a TV in those days so I would have had a problem watching the cartoon, even if I wanted to. My brother obviously figured out a way to watch it though, but I’m not sure how. Must have been one if his friends.



Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

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Tuesday, July 10, 2007 7:20 PM

FINN MAC CUMHAL


Quote:

Originally posted by Cybersnark:
In the TV continuity (*) the Decepticons were created (by the alien Quintessons) as military hardware, while the Autobots were consumer goods. The Evil police car is new though; civil defense used to be the province of the Autobots (most notably in Prowl, G1 Optimus Prime's second in command, who turned into a police car).

That’s good. I actually started to think that these Transformer toys weren’t so good for children if we are teaching them the police are the bad guys.



Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

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Wednesday, July 11, 2007 3:27 AM

SPEAKFIRE


I think it's important to remember (or know, for those of you who haven't seen this yet) that the movie is done from the perspective of the humans. The cartoon was all done from the perspective of the robots. So where in the cartoon, human involvement is minimal, it's a huge part of the motion picture. And because the Autobots have more contact with humans, as a result you will see far more of those in the movie than you will the Decepticons.

I saw this last Sunday and *loved* it. I loved how it was both a fun movie, and was funny. Tons of action... I know that a lot of the shots were done from that ultra-close shakey cam that many people don't like, but to me this is a truer depiction of what happens in fights. If you are involved a real fight or seeing it up close and personal, most of the time you have no idea what is happening, because everything happens so fast its a blur, you can't stop to think out every action. I think nowdays many movie goers are spoiled by the fact that a lot of fight scenes have the 'big stuff' put into slow-mo, so we can see exactly what's going on. Compare this to the rough and tumble close up fights in The Bourne Identity and Supremacy, where everything happens so fast that it's hard to see exactly what is happening unless the director specifically draws your attention to it (pen/magazines used as weapons). I watch UFC and in big fight matches, 75% of the time you won't know exactly what happened when someone is knocked out (neither will the guys calling the fight) until you see the replays in slo-mo. We're spoiled by slo-motions and the instant replay, is what it boils down to.

I really liked that the Decepticons were truly evil, with no regard for humanity at all. In the cartoon, of course censors would never allow them to be as evil as they truly were.

I rank it the best movie of the summer that I've seen, a close second behind Oceans 13.


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Friday, July 13, 2007 7:31 PM

1STCNDARMY


I'm gonna have to say I agree with pretty well at the critiques of the movie, but I was still giddy watching the thing.... both times. Maybe cause it was apart of my childhood... maybe because I go for the whole "suspension of disbelief" thing, but I loved that movie. Optimus is after all, my hero. And if you guys thought that movie wasn't that great, try watching the old 80's cartoon (Optimus: Bumblebee, could you go get a flux quantum capacitor. Bumblebee: Sure, I'll just drive into town and get one) Anywho. Though was anyone else really confused at the beginning? The police car was Baracade sure, but for a bit I was wondering why Jazz was being all evil like.... (Jazz was a police car in the original series). And on that note... A SOLSTICE! GM MADE HIM A SOLSTICE!!!!!! I think what happened to him happened for that shear reason... loti. And I hear there's gonna be 2 sequels and I'm gonna see em both. Go Optimus.

___________________________________________________
did Nathan go to your university? No? Well he went to mine ;)

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Saturday, July 14, 2007 3:59 AM

CYBERSNARK


Quote:

Originally posted by 1stCndArmy:
(Jazz was a police car in the original series).


Actually, Jazz was a Porsche ( http://www.tfu.info/1984/Autobot/Jazz/jazz.htm)

(There's a repaint of movie Jazz coming out in G1's running-shoe-like deco: http://www.allspark.com/index.php?set_albumName=g1moviejazz&option=com
_gallery&Itemid=4&include=view_album.php
)

The police car was Prowl ( http://www.tfu.info/1984/Autobot/Prowl/prowl.htm)

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Saturday, July 14, 2007 4:36 AM

1STCNDARMY


oh! so he was. I bow to your greater knowledge, I had known that the policecar was an autobot, somehow my brain made the jump that it was jazz..... oh well, good thing my brain can still kill you

___________________________________________________
did Nathan go to your university? No? Well he went to mine ;)

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