CINEMA

Cinematic Storytellers

POSTED BY: JEWELSTAITEFAN
UPDATED: Sunday, July 23, 2017 03:43
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Saturday, June 17, 2017 5:32 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


We have discussed great films, our favorite films, wonderful performances, and one concept that I have not quite put into words before was the masters or one-timers who really merge storytelling and the majesty of cinema.

This is about Directors who brilliantly intertwine the cinematic experience while magically telling a story.

Lately we have heard laments of the dearth of wonderful films. Sometimes the technical or effects portion of a film, while successful, overshadow the story - or fail to supplant it. Sometimes the film has a wonderful story, but falls short of incorporating all of the tools, tricks, and breathtaking nature of the cinematic experience.

I hope to concentrate on films of the past 10 years, and perhaps stretching to the past 20 years - how many have there been?

I suspect in this concept will wear thinly in the category of Rom-Com, and perhaps Comedy. The stories might be great, but how much of the full silver screen potential is realized with these flicks? It seems Rom-Coms are largely dependent upon the music, attractiveness of the stars, and performances of the stars. Many seem to be just as ready for TV as the big screen. I am not sure if there are any which qualify, but expect not a lot. Perhaps some Adam Sandler works have encompassed a large portion of the cinematic capabilities.

Some great storytelling have been overshadowed by fiscal miscalculations, or major plot holes. Hopefully we can overlook minor traps of inconsistency, incontinuity, plot holes, if the cinematic experience helped cover or overlook other small problems.

One possibility is Kick-Ass, but I wonder if the Director was merely blessed enough to capture Chloe Grace Morentz at the right time, playing off Nick Cage. Hard for me to separate.

Past Examples:
Don Siegel with Dirty Harry (1971)
Bond films - some, anyway
George Lucas with Star Wars 4: A New Hope (1977)
Richard Donner with Superman (1978), Lethal Weapon (1987)
George Miller with Road Warrior (1981)
Steven Spielberg with Raiders of The Lost Ark (1981) and Saving Private Ryan (1998)
Ridley Scott with Blade Runner (1982)
Philip Kaufman with The Right Stuff (1983)
James Cameron with Terminator (1984), Aliens (1986), and Terminator 2 (1991)
Clint Eastwood with Pale Rider (1985)
Russell Mulcahy with Highlander (1986)
Kevin Costner with Dances With Wolves (1990)
John McTiernan with The Hunt For Red October (1990)
Jonathon Demme with Silence of The Lambs (1991)
Quentin Tarantino with Pulp Fiction (1994)
Robert Zemekis with Forrest Gump (1994)
Jan De Bont with Speed (1994)
Ron Howard with Apollo 13 (1995)
Mel Gibson with Braveheart (1995)
Terry Gilliam with 12 Monkeys (1995)
Anthony Minghella with The English Patient (1996)


So, who do you think have been truly gifted with their application of cinematic magic while crafting a story to tell you?

My suggestions:

Denis Villeneuve with Arrival (2016).
Gareth Edwards with Rogue One (2016) - apparently salvaged by Tony Gilroy.
Clint Eastwood with Absolute Power (1997), American Sniper (2014)
James Gunn with Guardians of the Galaxy (2014)
Doug Liman with Bourne Identity (2002), Edge of Tomorrow (2014)
Joseph Kosinski with Oblivion (2013)
Christopher Nolan with Batman Begins (2005), Inception (2010)
Randall Wallace with Secretariat (2010)
JJ Abrams with Star Trek (2009)
Michael Bay with Armageddon (1998), Transformers (2007)
Joe Wright with Atonement (2007)


Zach Snyder with 300 (2006)
Frank Miller & Robert Rodriguez with Sin City (2005)
Joss Whedon with Serenity (2005).
Ridley Scott with Gladiator (2000), Blackhawk Down (2001)
M. Night Shyamalan with The Sixth Sense (1999)
Dean Parisot with Galaxy Quest (1999)
Frank Durabont with The Green Mile (1999)
Wachowski Brothers with The Matrix (1999)



Others mentioned in this thread:

2007-2017:

J.A. Bayona with A Monster Calls (2016)
Spike Jonze with Her (2013)
Abdellatif Kechiche with Blue is the Warmest Color (2013)
Jonathan Glazer with Under The Skin (2013)
Alfonso Cuaron with Gravity (2013), A Little Princess (1995), Children of Men (2006), Y Tu Mama Tambien (2001)
The Wachowskis and Tom Tykwer with Cloud Atlas (2012)/Run, Lola, Run (1998)
Darren Aronofsky with The Fountain (2006) and The Wrestler (2008)
Kevin Lima with Enchanted (2007)

1997-2007:
Guillermo Del Toro with Pan's Labyrinth (2006)
Spielberg with Munich (2005)



More than 20 years ago:
John Sturgis with The Magnificent 7 (1960) - perhaps the score was the real star?
Sergio Leone with Once Upon a Time in the West (1968) - most theaters wouldn't even show it, they banned it.
John Avildsen with Rocky (1976)
Richard Donner with The Omen (1976)
Hugh Hudson with Chariots of Fire (1981)
John Milius with Red Dawn (1984)
Tony Scott with Top Gun (1986)
Leonard Nimoy with Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home (1986)
John McTiernan with Predator (1987) and Die Hard (1988)
Renny Harlin with Die Hard 2 (1990)
Stephen Hopkins with Predator 2 (1990)
Spielberg with Shindler's List (1993) and Jurassic park (1993)
Brian Depalma with Blow Out (1981), Body Double (1984), and Mission: Impossible (1996)


Michael Curtiz and William Keighley with The Adventures of Robin Hood (1938)
Michael Curtiz with Casablanca (1942)
John Huston with Maltese Falcon (1941)
Orson Welles with Citizen Kane (1941)
Frank Capra with It's A Wonderful Life (1946)
Stanley Donen and Gene Kelly with Singing in the Rain (1952)
John Ford with The Searchers (1956) and The Quiet Man (1952)
John Ford and Mervyn LeRoy with Mister Roberts (1955)
Walter Lang with The King and I (1956)
Billy Wilder with Some Like It Hot (1959)
Robert Mulligan with To Kill a Mockingbird (1962)
George Cukor with My Fair Lady (1964)
Stanley Kubrick with 2001: A Space Odyssey (1968)


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Sunday, June 18, 2017 11:42 PM

6STRINGJOKER


Was Rogue One good? I got the feeling that since Disney took over it was just a bunch of suits making the movie.

https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2016/11/the-inevitab
le-politicization-of-star-wars-rogue-one/508358
/

Quote:

Chris Weitz, the writer of the upcoming Star Wars spinoff Rogue One, was drawing on these long-established parallels when he tweeted a few days after the election, “Please note that the Empire is a white supremacist (human) organization.” It’s one that’s opposed in Rogue One “by a multicultural group led by brave women,” chimed in Weitz’s co-writer Gary Whitta.


To be fair, I haven't watched a Star Wars flick since Episode 2. I watched the original 3 a million times when I was a kid but kind of lost interest after that.

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Monday, June 19, 2017 6:41 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
Was Rogue One good? I got the feeling that since Disney took over it was just a bunch of suits making the movie.

https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2016/11/the-inevitab
le-politicization-of-star-wars-rogue-one/508358
/

Quote:

Chris Weitz, the writer of the upcoming Star Wars spinoff Rogue One, was drawing on these long-established parallels when he tweeted a few days after the election, “Please note that the Empire is a white supremacist (human) organization.” It’s one that’s opposed in Rogue One “by a multicultural group led by brave women,” chimed in Weitz’s co-writer Gary Whitta.


To be fair, I haven't watched a Star Wars flick since Episode 2. I watched the original 3 a million times when I was a kid but kind of lost interest after that.


I think I've heard that many consider Rogue One to be the best Star Wars film since either Episode 4: A New Hope, or Episode 6: Return of the Jedi. And I agree. Rogue One chronologically takes place immediately prior to A New Hope.

For Episode 7, I would agree with your comment.

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Monday, June 19, 2017 11:00 PM

6STRINGJOKER


I'll have to watch them at some point.

I realize that even the original Star Wars was highly politicized, but when you're a kid you don't really think about those things. Sometimes it's a shame that when you have the internet you can hear the stuff that writers and creators of movies have to say about their works and that can turn you off to them.

I've heard that the writers of Rogue One wrote the Empire to represent the "Evil White Patriarchy" and immediately tuned out and put it on my list of movies not to watch, which really wasn't sacrificing anything since I haven't really enjoyed a Star Wars movie since the original trilogy and didn't even watch all 3 of the prequels.

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Tuesday, June 20, 2017 3:27 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Wow, JSF really good topic! No, great topic!!

So much to comment on here, so I'll keep it as simple as possible.
First, I totally agree with your "Past Examples" list, bravo! More on that later.
I have some comments, however, about your contemporary list. Don't worry, I'll be civil.

Instead of going over everything I like about your Contemporary list, I'm going to pick out those that gave me pause...

JJ Abrams - Now, let me preface my comments by saying that I ordinarily like his work (Fringe - although a TV series is among his very best work, and SW Episode 7 was a crowd pleaser with several minor flaws) with Star Trek I enjoyed the set up within the story, but there were some elements that I had minor issues with. Overall I liked it, but for me, there needs to be so much more. For example Aliens,
or perhaps Braveheart, a good solid story with solid acting, pacing and so on.
Star Trek, at times, felt a little forced, but parts of it (especially the first act) were excellent. Again, this is me and what I look for in a film - the storytelling must be genuine and solid through and through, in every aspect (Edge of Tomorrow comes to mind).

Michael Bay - Okay, I liked Armageddon and the first Transformers, but I wouldn't say that the cinematic part of the equation was solid through and through. Good stories, but not great. My quibble with Bay is his cinematic presentation, SFX and pacing. It's almost like he's racing us, the audience, towards the end of the movie. He films at a very frenetic pace. I prefer my stories told at a pace somewhere from Arrival to Aliens or Serenity. Keep me engaged, don't have my eyeballs bouncing all over the place (that's good for a short period of time, to change up the pace, but not to be sustained throughout).

Here's my contribution to the Contempo List:

The Wachowskis and Tom Tykwer - Cloud Atlas/Run, Lola, Run

Darren Aronofsky - The Fountain and The Wrestler

Alfonso Cuaron - Gravity, The Little Princess, Children of Men, Y Tu Mama Tambien

Spike Jonze - Her

Abdellatif Kechiche - Blue is the Warmest Color

Jonathan Glazer - Under The Skin

Guillermo Del Toro - Pan's Labyrinth

The above are some of the most inspiring films of our time, well for me anyway.
My classic list I will submit later.


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
We have discussed great films, our favorite films, wonderful performances, and one concept that I have not quite put into words before was the masters or one-timers who really merge storytelling and the majesty of cinema.

This is about Directors who brilliantly intertwine the cinematic experience while magically telling a story.

Lately we have heard laments of the dearth of wonderful films. Sometimes the technical or effects portion of a film, while successful, overshadow the story - or fail to supplant it. Sometimes the film has a wonderful story, but falls short of incorporating all of the tools, tricks, and breathtaking nature of the cinematic experience.

I hope to concentrate on films of the past 10 years, and perhaps stretching to the past 20 years - how many have there been?

I suspect in this concept will wear thinly in the category of Rom-Com, and perhaps Comedy. The stories might be great, but how much of the full silver screen potential is realized with these flicks? It seems Rom-Coms are largely dependent upon the music, attractiveness of the stars, and performances of the stars. Many seem to be just as ready for TV as the big screen. I am not sure if there are any which qualify, but expect not a lot. Perhaps some Adam Sandler works have encompassed a large portion of the cinematic capabilities.

Some great storytelling have been overshadowed by fiscal miscalculations, or major plot holes. Hopefully we can overlook minor traps of inconsistency, incontinuity, plot holes, if the cinematic experience helped cover or overlook other small problems.

One possibility is Kick-Ass, but I wonder if the Director was merely blessed enough to capture Chloe Grace Morentz at the right time, playing off Nick Cage. Hard for me to separate.

Past Examples:
George Miller with Road Warrior (1981)
Ridley Scott with Blade Runner (1982)
Russell Mulcahy with Highlander (1986)
James Cameron with Terminator (1984), Aliens (1986), Terminator 2 (1991), and even Titanic (1997).
Mel Gibson with Braveheart (1995)
Kevin Costner with Dances With Wolves (1990)
Anthony Minghella with The English Patient (1996)
Terry Gilliam with 12 Monkeys (1995)
Clint Eastwood with Pale Rider (1985)

Quentin Tarantino with Pulp Fiction
Don Siegel with Dirty Harry (1971)
Ron Howard with Apollo 13 (1995)
Robert Zemekis with Forrest Gump (1994)
John McTiernan with The Hunt For Red October (1990)
Jonathon Demme with Silence of The Lambs (1991)
Philip Kaufman with The Right Stuff (1983)
Richard Donner with Superman, Lethal Weapon
Bond films - some, anyway
George Lucas with Star Wars 4: A New Hope (1977)
Steven Spielberg with Raiders of The Lost Ark (1981) and Saving Private Ryan


So, who do you think have been truly gifted with their application of cinematic magic while crafting a story to tell you?

My suggestions:
Joss Whedon with Serenity (2005).
Denis Villeneuve with Arrival (2016).
Doug Liman with Bourne Identity (2002), Edge of Tomorrow (2014),
Christopher Nolan with Batman Begins (2005), Inception (2010)
JJ Abrams with Star Trek (2009)
Dean Parisot with Galaxy Quest (1999)
Michael Bay with Armageddon (1998), Transformers (2007)
Randall Wallace with Secretariat (2010)
James Gunn with Guardians of the Galaxy (2014)
Zach Snyder with 300 (2006)
Joseph Kosinski with Oblivion (2013)
Frank Miller & Robert Rodriguez with Sin City (2005)
M. Night Shyamalan with The Sixth Sense (1999)
Gareth Edwards with Rogue One (2016)
Ridley Scott with Gladiator (2000), Blackhawk Down (2001)
Clint Eastwood with Absolute Power (1997), American Sniper (2014)
Frank Durabont with The Green Mile (1999)
Joe Wright with Atonement (2007)



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Tuesday, June 20, 2017 6:38 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
I've heard that the writers of Rogue One wrote the Empire to represent the "Evil White Patriarchy" and immediately tuned out and put it on my list of movies not to watch,


That is too bad. I have heard of that claim which was made to reflect retroactive credit - but it was BS. I saw no overt bias in the film, but then I wasn't looking for Libtard Eggs.
I think you'll be safe with Rogue One. Lately I was thinking that the other Star Wars films left me with a sensation of "well, that was an experience" whereas Ep 4 and Rogue One left me enthralled and thinking I wanted to see them again (I have seen RO at least a second time.)

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Tuesday, June 20, 2017 8:10 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
We have discussed great films, our favorite films, wonderful performances, and one concept that I have not quite put into words before was the masters or one-timers who really merge storytelling and the majesty of cinema.

This is about Directors who brilliantly intertwine the cinematic experience while magically telling a story.

Lately we have heard laments of the dearth of wonderful films. Sometimes the technical or effects portion of a film, while successful, overshadow the story - or fail to supplant it. Sometimes the film has a wonderful story, but falls short of incorporating all of the tools, tricks, and breathtaking nature of the cinematic experience.

I hope to concentrate on films of the past 10 years, and perhaps stretching to the past 20 years - how many have there been?

I suspect in this concept will wear thinly in the category of Rom-Com, and perhaps Comedy. The stories might be great, but how much of the full silver screen potential is realized with these flicks? It seems Rom-Coms are largely dependent upon the music, attractiveness of the stars, and performances of the stars. Many seem to be just as ready for TV as the big screen. I am not sure if there are any which qualify, but expect not a lot. Perhaps some Adam Sandler works have encompassed a large portion of the cinematic capabilities.

Some great storytelling have been overshadowed by fiscal miscalculations, or major plot holes. Hopefully we can overlook minor traps of inconsistency, incontinuity, plot holes, if the cinematic experience helped cover or overlook other small problems.

One possibility is Kick-Ass, but I wonder if the Director was merely blessed enough to capture Chloe Grace Morentz at the right time, playing off Nick Cage. Hard for me to separate.

Past Examples:
George Miller with Road Warrior (1981)
Ridley Scott with Blade Runner (1982)
Russell Mulcahy with Highlander (1986)
James Cameron with Terminator (1984), Aliens (1986), Terminator 2 (1991), and even Titanic (1997).
Mel Gibson with Braveheart (1995)
Kevin Costner with Dances With Wolves (1990)
Anthony Minghella with The English Patient (1996)
Terry Gilliam with 12 Monkeys (1995)
Clint Eastwood with Pale Rider (1985)

Quentin Tarantino with Pulp Fiction
Don Siegel with Dirty Harry (1971)
Ron Howard with Apollo 13 (1995)
Robert Zemekis with Forrest Gump (1994)
John McTiernan with The Hunt For Red October (1990)
Jonathon Demme with Silence of The Lambs (1991)
Philip Kaufman with The Right Stuff (1983)
Richard Donner with Superman, Lethal Weapon
Bond films - some, anyway
George Lucas with Star Wars 4: A New Hope (1977)
Steven Spielberg with Raiders of The Lost Ark (1981) and Saving Private Ryan


So, who do you think have been truly gifted with their application of cinematic magic while crafting a story to tell you?

My suggestions:
Joss Whedon with Serenity (2005).
Denis Villeneuve with Arrival (2016).
Doug Liman with Bourne Identity (2002), Edge of Tomorrow (2014),
Christopher Nolan with Batman Begins (2005), Inception (2010)
JJ Abrams with Star Trek (2009)
Dean Parisot with Galaxy Quest (1999)
Michael Bay with Armageddon (1998), Transformers (2007)
Randall Wallace with Secretariat (2010)
James Gunn with Guardians of the Galaxy (2014)
Zach Snyder with 300 (2006)
Joseph Kosinski with Oblivion (2013)
Frank Miller & Robert Rodriguez with Sin City (2005)
M. Night Shyamalan with The Sixth Sense (1999)
Gareth Edwards with Rogue One (2016)
Ridley Scott with Gladiator (2000), Blackhawk Down (2001)
Clint Eastwood with Absolute Power (1997), American Sniper (2014)
Frank Durabont with The Green Mile (1999)
Joe Wright with Atonement (2007)


Wow, JSF really good topic! No, great topic!!

So much to comment on here, so I'll keep it as simple as possible.
First, I totally agree with your "Past Examples" list, bravo! More on that later.
I have some comments, however, about your contemporary list. Don't worry, I'll be civil.

Instead of going over everything I like about your Contemporary list, I'm going to pick out those that gave me pause...

JJ Abrams - Now, let me preface my comments by saying that I ordinarily like his work (Fringe - although a TV series is among his very best work, and SW Episode 7 was a crowd pleaser with several minor flaws) with Star Trek I enjoyed the set up within the story, but there were some elements that I had minor issues with. Overall I liked it, but for me, there needs to be so much more. For example Aliens,
or perhaps Braveheart, a good solid story with solid acting, pacing and so on.
Star Trek, at times, felt a little forced, but parts of it (especially the first act) were excellent. Again, this is me and what I look for in a film - the storytelling must be genuine and solid through and through, in every aspect (Edge of Tomorrow comes to mind).

Michael Bay - Okay, I liked Armageddon and the first Transformers, but I wouldn't say that the cinematic part of the equation was solid through and through. Good stories, but not great. My quibble with Bay is his cinematic presentation, SFX and pacing. It's almost like he's racing us, the audience, towards the end of the movie. He films at a very frenetic pace. I prefer my stories told at a pace somewhere from Arrival to Aliens or Serenity. Keep me engaged, don't have my eyeballs bouncing all over the place (that's good for a short period of time, to change up the pace, but not to be sustained throughout).

Here's my contribution to the Contempo List:

The Wachowskis and Tom Tykwer - Cloud Atlas/Run, Lola, Run

Darren Aronofsky - The Fountain and The Wrestler

Alfonso Cuaron - Gravity, The Little Princess, Children of Men, Y Tu Mama Tambien

Can't agree with Gravity, but agree with A Little Princess. This had briefly flitted across my mind, but I hadn't considered it thoroughly.
Quote:



Spike Jonze - Her

Abdellatif Kechiche - Blue is the Warmest Color

Jonathan Glazer - Under The Skin

I don't think I saw it in cinema, probably DVD. So I was unable to absorb the full impact.
Quote:



Guillermo Del Toro - Pan's Labyrinth

Completely agree.
Quote:



The above are some of the most inspiring films of our time, well for me anyway.
My classic list I will submit later.

SGG

I might have not clarified that I was looking for the great telling of the story more than the raw quality of the story - Directors are not always gifted with the best of stories, yet can make magic that consumes your attention and encompasses all that the cinema experience of the time provides (I don't watch 3D, so not including that).

I have added your entries to the OP. will sort them later.

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Wednesday, June 21, 2017 12:18 AM

6STRINGJOKER


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
I've heard that the writers of Rogue One wrote the Empire to represent the "Evil White Patriarchy" and immediately tuned out and put it on my list of movies not to watch,


That is too bad. I have heard of that claim which was made to reflect retroactive credit - but it was BS. I saw no overt bias in the film, but then I wasn't looking for Libtard Eggs.
I think you'll be safe with Rogue One. Lately I was thinking that the other Star Wars films left me with a sensation of "well, that was an experience" whereas Ep 4 and Rogue One left me enthralled and thinking I wanted to see them again (I have seen RO at least a second time.)



I'll watch them eventually. I'm so far behind on movies that it's not going to be a while. I'll probably wait on them until I have a better TV or maybe I'll watch them at my brothers house on his 70" TV.

Have you ever seen anything about the idea that Jar Jar Binks was a Sith Lord? Not only a Sith Lord, but THE Sith Lord that is responsible for the "Wars".



I think this video was far more interesting than the entire prequel trilogy. I actually would like to watch the original trilogy again with this in mind.





It looks like the video might not be working. Just do a search for "Fact: The Star Wars are ALL Jar Jar’s Fault" on youtube. The right video is 48:07 long.

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Wednesday, June 21, 2017 2:07 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Quote:

Spike Jonze - Her

Abdellatif Kechiche - Blue is the Warmest Color

Jonathan Glazer - Under The Skin

I don't think I saw it in cinema, probably DVD. So I was unable to absorb the full impact.



Here's my little secret..........saw all three online, and I do believe the story had full impact upon me as if I saw them in the theater. But I must admit, most times I prefer to see movies in the theater. I really enjoyed all three, but the one that gave me the most bang for my buck was Under The Skin.

So well written and presented. Speaking of which, I want to recommend
A Monster Calls. A very good story and film.


SGG

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Wednesday, June 21, 2017 2:53 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Quote:

Some great storytelling have been overshadowed by fiscal miscalculations, or major plot holes. Hopefully we can overlook minor traps of inconsistency, incontinuity, plot holes, if the cinematic experience helped cover or overlook other small problems.

One possibility is Kick-Ass, but I wonder if the Director was merely blessed enough to capture Chloe Grace Morentz at the right time, playing off Nick Cage. Hard for me to separate.



I pulled the above quote because I really like what you wrote and how you wrote it.
It was clear and on point to the theme of your thread. Plus I really enjoyed Kick-Ass because it offered so much more than what was on screen. You got it, and you
rightly point this out in the above paragraphs. I especially agree 100% with the
second paragraph. I thought that CGM stole that movie from everyone - cast, producers and director.

Chloe Grace Moretz took that movie on her tiny shoulders and carried it home. Lovingly, I might add. Nick Cage came a close second, and this in a brief appearance where he wasn't the main star. Go Figure. I absolutely left the theater enthused and ready to support a sequel - totally based on her performance. Mark Strong was also quite good.

My favorite scene in the movie illustrates perfectly both her impact and abilities.
It was the rescue scene when both Kick Ass and Big Daddy are being tortured. In just a few moments Matt Vaughn captured a truly poignant moment and revealing aspect of Hit Girl's true self - how much she loved her dad. He showed in just those few seconds her strength and vulnerability all in a single brushstroke. He
trusted his little star enough to capture it on film. It was beautiful on the part
of Chloe Grace Moretz. She is talented, she just needs better roles or better directors, maybe even better management for her career.

(As an aside, her career has taken a sideways turn. My guess is that her management team went for the quick dollar and advised her wrong by placing in front of her such iffy vehicles as Carrie and Let the Right One In, both remakes of very strong originals with cult followings. There are some movies better left alone - Some Like It Hot and Casablanca come to mind).


SGG

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Wednesday, June 21, 2017 3:39 AM

6STRINGJOKER


Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
(As an aside, her career has taken a sideways turn. My guess is that her management team went for the quick dollar and advised her wrong by placing in front of her such iffy vehicles as Carrie and Let the Right One In, both remakes of very strong originals with cult followings. There are some movies better left alone - Some Like It Hot and Casablanca come to mind).



The idea of Chloe doing Carrie is ludicrous to me.

I'm not saying that Sissy Spacek was ugly, but it was believable that she was an awkward teen that got bullied by the popular girls in high school with her looks.

There's no way that you could do that with Chloe and make it believable. They didn't even try from the scenes that I've seen of the movie. You're supposed to believe that somebody who looks like the head cheerleader in the school is being bullied by the popular girls?

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Wednesday, June 21, 2017 7:57 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


I failed to complete my response above.
Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
We have discussed great films, our favorite films, wonderful performances, and one concept that I have not quite put into words before was the masters or one-timers who really merge storytelling and the majesty of cinema.

This is about Directors who brilliantly intertwine the cinematic experience while magically telling a story.

Lately we have heard laments of the dearth of wonderful films. Sometimes the technical or effects portion of a film, while successful, overshadow the story - or fail to supplant it. Sometimes the film has a wonderful story, but falls short of incorporating all of the tools, tricks, and breathtaking nature of the cinematic experience.

I hope to concentrate on films of the past 10 years, and perhaps stretching to the past 20 years - how many have there been?

I suspect in this concept will wear thinly in the category of Rom-Com, and perhaps Comedy. The stories might be great, but how much of the full silver screen potential is realized with these flicks? It seems Rom-Coms are largely dependent upon the music, attractiveness of the stars, and performances of the stars. Many seem to be just as ready for TV as the big screen. I am not sure if there are any which qualify, but expect not a lot. Perhaps some Adam Sandler works have encompassed a large portion of the cinematic capabilities.

Some great storytelling have been overshadowed by fiscal miscalculations, or major plot holes. Hopefully we can overlook minor traps of inconsistency, incontinuity, plot holes, if the cinematic experience helped cover or overlook other small problems.

One possibility is Kick-Ass, but I wonder if the Director was merely blessed enough to capture Chloe Grace Morentz at the right time, playing off Nick Cage. Hard for me to separate.

Past Examples:



So, who do you think have been truly gifted with their application of cinematic magic while crafting a story to tell you?

My suggestions:



Wow, JSF really good topic! No, great topic!!

So much to comment on here, so I'll keep it as simple as possible.
First, I totally agree with your "Past Examples" list, bravo! More on that later.
I have some comments, however, about your contemporary list. Don't worry, I'll be civil.

Instead of going over everything I like about your Contemporary list, I'm going to pick out those that gave me pause...

JJ Abrams - Now, let me preface my comments by saying that I ordinarily like his work (Fringe - although a TV series is among his very best work, and SW Episode 7 was a crowd pleaser with several minor flaws) with Star Trek I enjoyed the set up within the story, but there were some elements that I had minor issues with. Overall I liked it, but for me, there needs to be so much more. For example Aliens, or perhaps Braveheart, a good solid story with solid acting, pacing and so on.
Star Trek, at times, felt a little forced, but parts of it (especially the first act) were excellent. Again, this is me and what I look for in a film - the storytelling must be genuine and solid through and through, in every aspect (Edge of Tomorrow comes to mind).

I felt this reboot was one of the best Star Trek films, had a decent and original story, and brought it all to the screen in attention grabbing spectacle, which could not have been adequately presented on small screen.
Although all of the new Star Trek films seem to spend all their time on Earth, this first one was the only one with a decent excuse in the story.
Quote:

Michael Bay - Okay, I liked Armageddon and the first Transformers, but I wouldn't say that the cinematic part of the equation was solid through and through. Good stories, but not great. My quibble with Bay is his cinematic presentation, SFX and pacing. It's almost like he's racing us, the audience, towards the end of the movie. He films at a very frenetic pace. I prefer my stories told at a pace somewhere from Arrival to Aliens or Serenity. Keep me engaged, don't have my eyeballs bouncing all over the place (that's good for a short period of time, to change up the pace, but not to be sustained throughout).
I felt Armageddon was too slow at times, usually with Baffleck scenes. But the story was dramatic and paced to fit the scenario. I never saw Transformers on TV, but understood the concept (or pretend toy interaction). The film seemed an energetic pace to me, but it did have many slow spots - usually with Labouf scenes unfortunately. But there can be a thin line between energetic and frenetic, and you and I may have viewed different facets of that divider. The majesty and clear visuals was enthralling like I had not expected. Transformers may have been the template in 2007 for the pacing of films since then (and video games), and the others in the franchise have not risen to the standard, but at the time I thought the story within was told well, and in a way that could not be fully duplicated on small screen. I do wish more films would copy the pacing and awe from this first edition.
Quote:

Here's my contribution to the Contempo List:

The Wachowskis and Tom Tykwer - Cloud Atlas/Run, Lola, Run
Darren Aronofsky - The Fountain and The Wrestler

Have not seen The Fountain
Quote:

Alfonso Cuaron - Gravity, The Little Princess, Children of Men, Y Tu Mama Tambien
Can't agree with Gravity, but agree with A Little Princess. Princess had briefly flitted across my mind, but I hadn't considered it thoroughly. Because it is one of my faves, I felt that my bias was too great, and the performance of Liesel was mesmerizing and overshadowing the story as a whole, but now recall that it is a fave because of the great story told. I saw it in cinema at least twice, and the first time it took a few hours before I realized it was just a movie, it didn't really happen, IIRC. Based upon her performance I had considered Liesel one of 3 excellent candidates to play Queen Amidala back when it was uncast, along with Lisa Jakub and The Professional's Natalie Portman.
For Gravity, I felt the lousy story, plot/pace, and performances took too much away - and rendered it little more than a sequence of gimmicks like CGI, SFX, etc. Not blaming the Director.
Quote:

Spike Jonze - Her
Have not seen, seemed a bit sedate.
Quote:

Abdellatif Kechiche - Blue is the Warmest Color
Maybe I'll watch again. I recall that I've kept an eye out for Lea in credits since.
Quote:

Jonathan Glazer - Under The Skin
I don't think I saw it in cinema, probably DVD. So I was unable to absorb the full impact.
Quote:

Guillermo Del Toro - Pan's Labyrinth
Completely agree.
Quote:

The above are some of the most inspiring films of our time, well for me anyway.
My classic list I will submit later.

SGG

I might have not clarified that I was looking for the great telling of the story more than the raw quality of the story - Directors are not always gifted with the best of stories, yet can make magic that consumes your attention and encompasses all that the cinema experience of the time provides (I don't watch 3D, so not including that).

I have added your entries to the OP. will sort them later.

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Wednesday, June 21, 2017 8:51 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


I'm still adding a few:
Examples more than 20 years old:
John Sturgis with The Magnificent 7 (1960) - perhaps the score was the real star?
Sergio Leone with Once Upon a Time in the West (1968) - most theaters wouldn't even show it, they banned it.
John Avildsen with Rocky (1976)
John Milius with Red Dawn (1984)
Richard Donner with The Omen (1976)
Hugh Hudson with Chariots of Fire (1981)
Tony Scott with Top Gun (1986)
Spielberg with Shindler's List (1993) and Jurassic park (1993)
Leonard Nimoy with Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home (1986)
Brian Depalma with Blow Out (1981), Body Double (1984), and Mission: Impossible (1996)
John McTiernan with Predator (1987) and Die Hard (1988)
Renny Harlin with Die Hard 2 (1990)

2007-2017:
Kevin Lima with Enchanted (2007)


1997-2007:
Spielberg with Munich (2005)

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Thursday, June 22, 2017 1:30 AM

6STRINGJOKER


I'd put Predator II on that list too. I thought it was really cool seeing the Predator in a cityscape instead of the forest against Danny Glovers every-man instead of a bunch of body building goons.

Thinking back on it, at least for me, it was the first movie I ever watched where the main character and protagonist was a black dude, so there's that too.

It can also be credited as the first time you saw potential for a crossover with Aliens when you saw the Alien skull in the Predator's trophy room. I never read the comics, but a few years later I played the Aliens vs. Predator arcade with my brothers and we were super pumped for a movie crossover.

Then they waited like 10 years to put one out when nobody cared anymore and it was terrible......


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Thursday, June 22, 2017 8:00 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
I want to recommend A Monster Calls. A very good story and film.

SGG

I wanted to see that, but somehow have not yet.


Also, finally got my list posted, and added them to the OP and organized them by date - most recent for the past 20 years, then oldest to newest prior to 20 years ago.
Looks like recent entries are slim pickens, which I had suspected.

Ready to discuss, and add more from others.
Sorry for the delays.

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Saturday, June 24, 2017 5:18 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
The above are some of the most inspiring films of our time, well for me anyway.
My classic list I will submit later.

SGG

Recalling Sandra Bullock in The Blind Side, is it later?

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Monday, June 26, 2017 2:40 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Forgot about that one.


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
The above are some of the most inspiring films of our time, well for me anyway.
My classic list I will submit later.

SGG

Recalling Sandra Bullock in The Blind Side, is it later?


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Monday, June 26, 2017 7:54 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Sometimes I suspect that TV movie programmers are reading our threads.
Yesterday I watched a film on TV, Directed by Jonathon Glazer (Under the Skin), with Nicole Kidman (Dead Calm), James Remar (Silence of the Lambs), Arliss Howard (Moneyball), Peter Stormare (Armageddon, Fargo), and Lauren Bacall.
Or perhaps they dug it up because Danny Huston is in Wonder Woman.
It was Birth (2004)

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Wednesday, July 5, 2017 7:01 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
My classic list I will submit later.

SGG

Is it later?

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Saturday, July 8, 2017 2:35 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


After finally watching Trouble With The Curve, and the DVD Bonus material where Amy Adams effuses about working with Clint Eastwood for the first time (Clint did not direct), I was reminded about her other roles.

Although the best film she's been in may well be Arrival, and she performed wonderfully in it, I still harken back to her excellent and adorable performance in Enchanted. Although it obviously great editing and transition for segue between formats, Amy was a critical part, I felt.
If you are an Amy Adams fan and have not yet seen Enchanted, I certainly encourage you to check it out. And it is family friendly.

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Sunday, July 9, 2017 3:11 AM

6STRINGJOKER


Cruel Intentions 2. Not family friendly. One of my favorite so-bad-it's-good movies. Total crap compared to the first movie, but hilariously so.

It would probably ruin Enchanted for you though.

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Tuesday, July 11, 2017 7:44 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
Cruel Intentions 2. Not family friendly. One of my favorite so-bad-it's-good movies. Total crap compared to the first movie, but hilariously so.

It would probably ruin Enchanted for you though.

For what reason would it ruin Enchanted for a viewer?

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Wednesday, July 12, 2017 7:42 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
I want to recommend A Monster Calls. A very good story and film.

SGG

I wanted to see that, but somehow have not yet.

I finally saw it on DVD. Was on the waiting list a bit.
I felt it a little akin to Bridge to Terabithia, but BiT will hold a stronger place in my mind than AMC.
Not that my perspective should detract from the enjoyment of any other viewer. I was intrigued by the descriptions, but not satisfied.

Noticed Felicity Jones and Liam Neeson were both in Star Wars, each in films which had waited a long interlude since the prior set. But Sigourney has not been in SW.

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Thursday, July 13, 2017 12:01 AM

6STRINGJOKER


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
Cruel Intentions 2. Not family friendly. One of my favorite so-bad-it's-good movies. Total crap compared to the first movie, but hilariously so.

It would probably ruin Enchanted for you though.

For what reason would it ruin Enchanted for a viewer?




Why try explaining it when I can just show you?



That's just a little taste though. From seducing and blackmailing a professor to just generally ruining every life she wants to, she makes Sarah Michelle Gellar's villain from the first movie look like a saint. It's pure trashy comedy.

I'm kind of surprised that it didn't ruin Amy's career. Usually once somebody does those Cinemax late night movies they were either stuck doing them until their looks gave out or were never heard from again.

Maybe it wouldn't ruin Enchanted for you. I've never seen it. But the idea of seeing Amy Adams as a virtuous "Disney Princess" to me is pretty funny.

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Thursday, July 13, 2017 12:35 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


I agree about Enchanted, really fun movie. AA is great and showed her talent, but I got a kick out of James Marsden's performance as well.

If you like AA, check out the first movie I ever laid eyes on her - JuneBug (2005).
She was not the star, but easily stole that movie. I fell in love.

Arrival is her best performance.


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
After finally watching Trouble With The Curve, and the DVD Bonus material where Amy Adams effuses about working with Clint Eastwood for the first time (Clint did not direct), I was reminded about her other roles.

Although the best film she's been in may well be Arrival, and she performed wonderfully in it, I still harken back to her excellent and adorable performance in Enchanted. Although it obviously great editing and transition for segue between formats, Amy was a critical part, I felt.
If you are an Amy Adams fan and have not yet seen Enchanted, I certainly encourage you to check it out. And it is family friendly.


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Thursday, July 13, 2017 1:23 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Quote:

is it later?


Yes.

Casablanca - goes without saying, one of the best stories on film ever told.

2001: A Space Odyssey - Kubrick's genius redefined storytelling in film.

The Searchers - John Ford's classic western that seamlessly went from drama to comedy with equal aplomb

To Kill a Mockingbird - Great story, well acted and directed, well defined characters

Some Like It Hot - Classic comedy, a twist on the Valentine's Day Massacre; guys in drag seems to always bring the funny. Billy Wilder knew how to put together a comedy.

Maltese Falcon - Sam Spade, master detective. Again the story drives the movie.

Singing in the Rain - As musicals go, among the best ever. Like you say, there's more there than what's on the script.

My Fair Lady - The rain in Spain, falls mainly in the plain


Special Mention:

Citizen Kane
Robin Hood
It's A Wonderful Life
Mister Roberts
The Quiet Man
The King and I


SGG

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Friday, July 14, 2017 5:25 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
Cruel Intentions 2. Not family friendly. One of my favorite so-bad-it's-good movies. Total crap compared to the first movie, but hilariously so.

It would probably ruin Enchanted for you though.

For what reason would it ruin Enchanted for a viewer?

Why try explaining it when I can just show you?

That's just a little taste though. From seducing and blackmailing a professor to just generally ruining every life she wants to, she makes Sarah Michelle Gellar's villain from the first movie look like a saint. It's pure trashy comedy.

I'm kind of surprised that it didn't ruin Amy's career. Usually once somebody does those Cinemax late night movies they were either stuck doing them until their looks gave out or were never heard from again.

Maybe it wouldn't ruin Enchanted for you. I've never seen it. But the idea of seeing Amy Adams as a virtuous "Disney Princess" to me is pretty funny.

You have not seen Enchanted? You really should, unless you dislike AA.
After that, let us know how funny you thought it all was.

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Friday, July 14, 2017 5:31 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Quote:

is it later?


Yes.

Casablanca - goes without saying, one of the best stories on film ever told.

2001: A Space Odyssey - Kubrick's genius redefined storytelling in film.

The Searchers - John Ford's classic western that seamlessly went from drama to comedy with equal aplomb

To Kill a Mockingbird - Great story, well acted and directed, well defined characters

Some Like It Hot - Classic comedy, a twist on the Valentine's Day Massacre; guys in drag seems to always bring the funny. Billy Wilder knew how to put together a comedy.

Maltese Falcon - Sam Spade, master detective. Again the story drives the movie.

Singing in the Rain - As musicals go, among the best ever. Like you say, there's more there than what's on the script.

My Fair Lady - The rain in Spain, falls mainly in the plain


Special Mention:

Citizen Kane
Robin Hood
It's A Wonderful Life
Mister Roberts
The Quiet Man
The King and I


SGG

My Fair Lady with Hepburn from Cukor in 1964?
Having played in it in High School, I normally discounted the cinema version because it seemed so precisely suited to the stage.

Which Robin Hood?
King and I with Brynner?


Regarding Casablanca and Falcon, do you think these are ultimately unimprovable, meaning they were state of the art for their time, and further cinematic progression of sound, CGI, would not have significant impact upon their storytelling? I somewhat feel they are almost stuck in time, and I would likely be dismayed at attempts to remake them. I cannot recall, were they bot black and white? If so, do you think color would have improved or detracted? I normally prefer still photos to be B/W, for their artistic depiction.
I agree they were excellent examples, but I didn't want to put everything in my list.


Did you realize Wonderful Life was a Box Office disappointment?

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Tuesday, July 18, 2017 1:17 AM

6STRINGJOKER


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
You have not seen Enchanted? You really should, unless you dislike AA.
After that, let us know how funny you thought it all was.



I can't imagine Enchanted is a movie I'd ever watch on my own, but I've got a 3 year old niece who I'm sure has already seen it but wouldn't mind watching it again.... that is if I can ever get her to sit down and watch a movie with me. Just hung out with her all weekend again and we didn't sit down to watch anything. Whenever I'm around we're out playing in the yard or with her toys or reading books. My bro and sis tell me that she watches all sorts of Disney movies and has seen Frozen a thousand times, but she just wants to play when I'm around. I'm thinking that the boob tube is a good babysitter for her when they need to unwind, and I watch enough of it on my own. I prefer to be more active in our fun when I see her.

I've got nothing against Amy Adams. What's not to like? She's beautiful. She was great in Cruel Intentions 2. The only other thing I remember seeing her in was another pretty forgettable movie called Serving Sara. She's the only thing I remember about the movie at all. She played some outrageously hot goldigging ex-wife or something.

She was probably great in Enchanted too. I'm just saying that the joke is that she played all of these incredibly sexy/trashy people before she did that movie. I think it would be hard for me to separate the two while watching it.

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Tuesday, July 18, 2017 4:53 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
You have not seen Enchanted? You really should, unless you dislike AA.
After that, let us know how funny you thought it all was.



I can't imagine Enchanted is a movie I'd ever watch on my own, but I've got a 3 year old niece who I'm sure has already seen it but wouldn't mind watching it again.... that is if I can ever get her to sit down and watch a movie with me. Just hung out with her all weekend again and we didn't sit down to watch anything. Whenever I'm around we're out playing in the yard or with her toys or reading books. My bro and sis tell me that she watches all sorts of Disney movies and has seen Frozen a thousand times, but she just wants to play when I'm around. I'm thinking that the boob tube is a good babysitter for her when they need to unwind, and I watch enough of it on my own. I prefer to be more active in our fun when I see her.

I've got nothing against Amy Adams. What's not to like? She's beautiful. She was great in Cruel Intentions 2. The only other thing I remember seeing her in was another pretty forgettable movie called Serving Sara. She's the only thing I remember about the movie at all. She played some outrageously hot goldigging ex-wife or something.

She was probably great in Enchanted too. I'm just saying that the joke is that she played all of these incredibly sexy/trashy people before she did that movie. I think it would be hard for me to separate the two while watching it.

I had seen her in other work before Enchanted, but not all, and I was disinclined to watch Enchanted based upon it's likely intended audience, but I am and was very glad I did.

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Wednesday, July 19, 2017 6:24 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


My Fair Lady with H & H: Hepburn and Harrison.

Robin Hood with Errol Flynn

The King and I with Brynner, of course!

I often thought that maybe, just maybe, Casablanca could be remade (actually Pamela Anderson attempted it in 1996's Barb Wire), but thought better of it and decided, along with the experts, that that was not such a good idea. Some classics are better off left alone.

You see, it doesn't matter so much the advances we've made in the tech side, because it's about the story, setting, characters and ultimately, the director. They wrote a fantastic script and it has stood the test of time. Yes, they're both in black & white, which adds to their mystique and film noir vibe. A colorized version of Casablanca or Falcon would be considered by many to be a mortal sin. The black and white versions of these films is what gives it it's charm and appeal.

You see, it doesn't matter so much the advances we've made in the tech side, because it's about the story, setting, characters and ultimately, the director. They wrote a fantastic script and it has stood the test of time. Yes, they're both in black & white, which adds to their mystique and film noir vibe. A colorized version of Casablanca or Falcon would be IMHO a mortal sin.


SGG




Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Quote:

is it later?


Yes.

Casablanca - goes without saying, one of the best stories on film ever told.

2001: A Space Odyssey - Kubrick's genius redefined storytelling in film.

The Searchers - John Ford's classic western that seamlessly went from drama to comedy with equal aplomb

To Kill a Mockingbird - Great story, well acted and directed, well defined characters

Some Like It Hot - Classic comedy, a twist on the Valentine's Day Massacre; guys in drag seems to always bring the funny. Billy Wilder knew how to put together a comedy.

Maltese Falcon - Sam Spade, master detective. Again the story drives the movie.

Singing in the Rain - As musicals go, among the best ever. Like you say, there's more there than what's on the script.

My Fair Lady - The rain in Spain, falls mainly in the plain


Special Mention:

Citizen Kane
Robin Hood
It's A Wonderful Life
Mister Roberts
The Quiet Man
The King and I


SGG

My Fair Lady with Hepburn from Cukor in 1964?
Having played in it in High School, I normally discounted the cinema version because it seemed so precisely suited to the stage.

Which Robin Hood?
King and I with Brynner?


Regarding Casablanca and Falcon, do you think these are ultimately unimprovable, meaning they were state of the art for their time, and further cinematic progression of sound, CGI, would not have significant impact upon their storytelling? I somewhat feel they are almost stuck in time, and I would likely be dismayed at attempts to remake them. I cannot recall, were they bot black and white? If so, do you think color would have improved or detracted? I normally prefer still photos to be B/W, for their artistic depiction.
I agree they were excellent examples, but I didn't want to put everything in my list.

I tried to keep my list to under 10, and mostly from the Golden Age of Film in our history between 1935 to about 1950. Bogart, Bacall, Stewart, Davis, Wayne, Edward G., Kelly, Garland, Astaire and Cagney. The storytellers were actors and directors; and sometimes studio chiefs. Couldn't talk about film without mentioning those iconic giants of cinema.


SGG

Did you realize Beautiful Life was a Box Office disappointment?


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Wednesday, July 19, 2017 6:38 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Edited for readability.
I assume this is what was intended.


Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Quote:

is it later?
Yes.

Casablanca - goes without saying, one of the best stories on film ever told.

2001: A Space Odyssey - Kubrick's genius redefined storytelling in film.

The Searchers - John Ford's classic western that seamlessly went from drama to comedy with equal aplomb

To Kill a Mockingbird - Great story, well acted and directed, well defined characters

Some Like It Hot - Classic comedy, a twist on the Valentine's Day Massacre; guys in drag seems to always bring the funny. Billy Wilder knew how to put together a comedy.

Maltese Falcon - Sam Spade, master detective. Again the story drives the movie.

Singing in the Rain - As musicals go, among the best ever. Like you say, there's more there than what's on the script.

My Fair Lady - The rain in Spain, falls mainly in the plain


Special Mention:

Citizen Kane
Robin Hood
It's A Wonderful Life
Mister Roberts
The Quiet Man
The King and I


SGG

My Fair Lady with Hepburn from Cukor in 1964?
Having played in it in High School, I normally discounted the cinema version because it seemed so precisely suited to the stage.

Which Robin Hood?
King and I with Brynner?


Regarding Casablanca and Falcon, do you think these are ultimately unimprovable, meaning they were state of the art for their time, and further cinematic progression of sound, CGI, would not have significant impact upon their storytelling? I somewhat feel they are almost stuck in time, and I would likely be dismayed at attempts to remake them. I cannot recall, were they bot black and white? If so, do you think color would have improved or detracted? I normally prefer still photos to be B/W, for their artistic depiction.


My Fair Lady with H & H: Hepburn and Harrison.

Robin Hood with Errol Flynn

The King and I with Brynner, of course!

I often thought that maybe, just maybe, Casablanca could be remade (actually Pamela Anderson attempted it in 1996's Barb Wire), but thought better of it and decided, along with the experts, that that was not such a good idea. Some classics are better off left alone.

You see, it doesn't matter so much the advances we've made in the tech side, because it's about the story, setting, characters and ultimately, the director. They wrote a fantastic script and it has stood the test of time. Yes, they're both in black & white, which adds to their mystique and film noir vibe. A colorized version of Casablanca or Falcon would be considered by many to be a mortal sin. The black and white versions of these films is what gives it it's charm and appeal.
Quote:

I agree they were excellent examples, but I didn't want to put everything in my list.


I tried to keep my list to under 10, and mostly from the Golden Age of Film in our history between 1935 to about 1950. Bogart, Bacall, Stewart, Davis, Wayne, Edward G., Kelly, Garland, Astaire and Cagney. The storytellers were actors and directors; and sometimes studio chiefs. Couldn't talk about film without mentioning those iconic giants of cinema.


SGG
Quote:

Did you realize Beautiful Life was a Box Office disappointment?

SGG

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Wednesday, July 19, 2017 6:59 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Edited for readability.
I assume this is what was intended.


Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Quote:

is it later?
Yes.

Casablanca - goes without saying, one of the best stories on film ever told.


Maltese Falcon - Sam Spade, master detective. Again the story drives the movie.


My Fair Lady - The rain in Spain, falls mainly in the plain


Special Mention:

Robin Hood
It's A Wonderful Life

The King and I

SGG

My Fair Lady with Hepburn from Cukor in 1964?
Having played in it in High School, I normally discounted the cinema version because it seemed so precisely suited to the stage.

Which Robin Hood?
King and I with Brynner?


Regarding Casablanca and Falcon, do you think these are ultimately unimprovable, meaning they were state of the art for their time, and further cinematic progression of sound, CGI, would not have significant impact upon their storytelling? I somewhat feel they are almost stuck in time, and I would likely be dismayed at attempts to remake them. I cannot recall, were they bot black and white? If so, do you think color would have improved or detracted? I normally prefer still photos to be B/W, for their artistic depiction.


My Fair Lady with H & H: Hepburn and Harrison.

Robin Hood with Errol Flynn

The King and I with Brynner, of course!

My Fair Lady from Cukor (1964)
The Adventures of Robin Hood from Michael Curtiz and William Keighley (1938)
The King and I from Walter Lang (1956)
Quote:


I often thought that maybe, just maybe, Casablanca could be remade (actually Pamela Anderson attempted it in 1996's Barb Wire), but thought better of it and decided, along with the experts, that that was not such a good idea. Some classics are better off left alone.

You see, it doesn't matter so much the advances we've made in the tech side, because it's about the story, setting, characters and ultimately, the director. They wrote a fantastic script and it has stood the test of time. Yes, they're both in black & white, which adds to their mystique and film noir vibe. A colorized version of Casablanca or Falcon would be considered by many to be a mortal sin. The black and white versions of these films is what gives it it's charm and appeal.
Quote:

I agree they were excellent examples, but I didn't want to put everything in my list.


I tried to keep my list to under 10, and mostly from the Golden Age of Film in our history between 1935 to about 1950. Bogart, Bacall, Stewart, Davis, Wayne, Edward G., Kelly, Garland, Astaire and Cagney. The storytellers were actors and directors; and sometimes studio chiefs. Couldn't talk about film without mentioning those iconic giants of cinema.


SGG

I have no intention of restriction to 10 items. There might be a restriction of that type in recent years, due to non-existence of candidates, but not an artificial governor.
Quote:

Quote:

Did you realize Beautiful Life was a Box Office disappointment?

SGG

After you use the racist term, suddenly I'm thinking that Black Cinema (film noir) would have originally been defined by colorless cinematography and the mood encouraged by the lack of color. But now using the term black/noir/negro in film has become merely descriptive of dark mood or dark subject matter.

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Wednesday, July 19, 2017 9:04 PM

6STRINGJOKER


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
But now using the term black/noir/negro in film has become merely descriptive of dark mood or dark subject matter.



Noir used to be used for skin color?

Hell... I didn't even know what "Film Noir" meant before today. I never looked into it. I thought it was just a description for some old timey flicks lol.

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Thursday, July 20, 2017 5:26 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Sorry about that, I've been having problems with my lap top.


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Edited for readability.
I assume this is what was intended.


Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Quote:

is it later?
Yes.

Casablanca - goes without saying, one of the best stories on film ever told.

2001: A Space Odyssey - Kubrick's genius redefined storytelling in film.

The Searchers - John Ford's classic western that seamlessly went from drama to comedy with equal aplomb

To Kill a Mockingbird - Great story, well acted and directed, well defined characters

Some Like It Hot - Classic comedy, a twist on the Valentine's Day Massacre; guys in drag seems to always bring the funny. Billy Wilder knew how to put together a comedy.

Maltese Falcon - Sam Spade, master detective. Again the story drives the movie.

Singing in the Rain - As musicals go, among the best ever. Like you say, there's more there than what's on the script.

My Fair Lady - The rain in Spain, falls mainly in the plain


Special Mention:

Citizen Kane
Robin Hood
It's A Wonderful Life
Mister Roberts
The Quiet Man
The King and I


SGG

My Fair Lady with Hepburn from Cukor in 1964?
Having played in it in High School, I normally discounted the cinema version because it seemed so precisely suited to the stage.

Which Robin Hood?
King and I with Brynner?


Regarding Casablanca and Falcon, do you think these are ultimately unimprovable, meaning they were state of the art for their time, and further cinematic progression of sound, CGI, would not have significant impact upon their storytelling? I somewhat feel they are almost stuck in time, and I would likely be dismayed at attempts to remake them. I cannot recall, were they bot black and white? If so, do you think color would have improved or detracted? I normally prefer still photos to be B/W, for their artistic depiction.


My Fair Lady with H & H: Hepburn and Harrison.

Robin Hood with Errol Flynn

The King and I with Brynner, of course!

I often thought that maybe, just maybe, Casablanca could be remade (actually Pamela Anderson attempted it in 1996's Barb Wire), but thought better of it and decided, along with the experts, that that was not such a good idea. Some classics are better off left alone.

You see, it doesn't matter so much the advances we've made in the tech side, because it's about the story, setting, characters and ultimately, the director. They wrote a fantastic script and it has stood the test of time. Yes, they're both in black & white, which adds to their mystique and film noir vibe. A colorized version of Casablanca or Falcon would be considered by many to be a mortal sin. The black and white versions of these films is what gives it it's charm and appeal.
Quote:

I agree they were excellent examples, but I didn't want to put everything in my list.


I tried to keep my list to under 10, and mostly from the Golden Age of Film in our history between 1935 to about 1950. Bogart, Bacall, Stewart, Davis, Wayne, Edward G., Kelly, Garland, Astaire and Cagney. The storytellers were actors and directors; and sometimes studio chiefs. Couldn't talk about film without mentioning those iconic giants of cinema.


SGG
Quote:

Did you realize Beautiful Life was a Box Office disappointment?

SGG


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Thursday, July 20, 2017 5:30 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Quote:

Did you realize Beautiful Life was a Box Office disappointment?

If you mean It's A Wonderful Life, no I didn't. I know that Capra was somewhat underappreciated.


SGG

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Thursday, July 20, 2017 5:53 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


I've never heard of Film Noir being used as a term for skin color. Film Noir, from what I understand means the tone of the film or story is dark in tone. The Maltese Falcon for example is considered Film Noir having to do with murder and espionage or intrigue. The Big Sleep, Dial M for Murder, Strangers on a Train, etc. Usually involves a crime or something menacing in the background.

I believe the term came out of that era during the Golden Age of Film during the 40s and 50s. It means "black" film or cinema that has dark undertones like sex, crime and double-crossing crooks. It's French literally meaning "dark film" melodramatic in tone and presentation, stylish and foreboding. Guns, dames and cigarette smoke. That's classic Film Noir.


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
But now using the term black/noir/negro in film has become merely descriptive of dark mood or dark subject matter.



Noir used to be used for skin color?

Hell... I didn't even know what "Film Noir" meant before today. I never looked into it. I thought it was just a description for some old timey flicks lol.


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Thursday, July 20, 2017 6:40 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
But now using the term black/noir/negro in film has become merely descriptive of dark mood or dark subject matter.



Noir used to be used for skin color?

Hell... I didn't even know what "Film Noir" meant before today. I never looked into it. I thought it was just a description for some old timey flicks lol.


Direct translation to American (English) from "noir" is black. French, and white is "blanc" in French.

Direct translation from "negro" is black, in Spanish. White is also "blanc' in Spanish.

Once Black & White meant without color. Now Black means colored, at times.

In film, noir is like slang for moody, dark thoughts or subject, shadowy cinematography, etc.

Other Black: Schwarz (German), Duh (Gaelic), Nero (Italian), Du (Welsh).

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Thursday, July 20, 2017 6:53 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Sorry about that, I've been having problems with my lap top.


SGG

Couldn't possibly be as bad as the computer, wifi, and internet connection I was using last night. Took me about 22 separate edits to accomplish that.

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Thursday, July 20, 2017 7:03 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Quote:

Did you realize Beautiful Life was a Box Office disappointment?

If you mean It's A Wonderful Life, no I didn't. I know that Capra was somewhat underappreciated.


SGG

Correct. I did have an inkling something there was not right. Edited my original post with that, now.


It was a dud in theaters. After about 17 years, the rights were not renewed by the film or production company, and it became public domain. This allowed broadcast TV to play it for free, which it did regularly, and habitually every holiday season. This is how it became a family favorite, and considered a classic. In cinema 1947, became widely viewed and then popular in the mid-60's. Didn't hurt that Jimmy Stewart had continued his beloved career during the interim, and then this favored actor was in an old film which was now free to view. This is one story that taught Hollywood a few things about Box Office, popularity, etc.
Other films that taught Hollywood a lesson were Once Upon A Time In The West, and the Man With No Name Trilogy (The Stranger, The Two Strangers, The Three Strangers, aka For A Fistful of Dollars, For a Few Dollars More, and The Good The Bad and The Ugly).

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Friday, July 21, 2017 7:02 AM

6STRINGJOKER


I'm not going to say that it was always this way, but I never heard that white was the absence of color. I remember my mom explaining that to me when I was really little and not understanding it at the time, but black is the absence of color and white is the presence of all colors. It didn't make sense to me when I was a kid coloring with crayons because a white sheet of paper had no colors on it and if you mixed a bunch of colors together you could essentially make the page black.

What it referred to though is the color spectrum as it pertains to light. Pink Floyd's prism is the best visual representation of it.


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Friday, July 21, 2017 4:44 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
I'm not going to say that it was always this way, but I never heard that white was the absence of color. I remember my mom explaining that to me when I was really little and not understanding it at the time, but black is the absence of color and white is the presence of all colors. It didn't make sense to me when I was a kid coloring with crayons because a white sheet of paper had no colors on it and if you mixed a bunch of colors together you could essentially make the page black.

What it referred to though is the color spectrum as it pertains to light. Pink Floyd's prism is the best visual representation of it.

It is all about light. How do you think you see the crayon color, osmosis? Telepathy?

The difference is whether adding light or subtracting light.
The crayons subtract light. Putting those colors on a disc (separately, like pie slices) and spinning it fast enough gives you a white disk, because the colors are added together.
Taking 3 lights and filtering each with a red, a blue, and a green and putting those colors one the same spot will give you a white spot. Putting all 3 filters on the same light will give you black. In your prism example, if you took all of those rainbow rays and redirected them to focus o the same spot, you would get a white spot. If you get your eye close to your TV, like an inch away, you should be able to see the three colors as separate emitters - red, blue, green. They can add together to create any color in the spectrum, including white. When not emitting, the screen is black.

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Saturday, July 22, 2017 3:29 AM

6STRINGJOKER


Yeah. I figured all of that out years back. I just didn't get it when I was a kid.

I was just saying that black is the absence of color and white is the presence of all colors. Earlier in the thread you said that both were used to mean without color.

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Saturday, July 22, 2017 4:09 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
Yeah. I figured all of that out years back. I just didn't get it when I was a kid.

I was just saying that black is the absence of color and white is the presence of all colors. Earlier in the thread you said that both were used to mean without color.

Film without color is called Black And White.
Perhaps more accurate to say black or white, but it is not said that way. Now more commonly known as shades of gray.

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Sunday, July 23, 2017 3:43 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Quote:
Did you realize Beautiful Life was a Box Office disappointment?

If you mean It's A Wonderful Life, no I didn't. I know that Capra was somewhat underappreciated.

SGG

Correct. I did have an inkling something there was not right. Edited my original post with that, now.


It was a dud in theaters. After about 17 years, the rights were not renewed by the film or production company, and it became public domain. This allowed broadcast TV to play it for free, which it did regularly, and habitually every holiday season. This is how it became a family favorite, and considered a classic. In cinema 1947, became widely viewed and then popular in the mid-60's. Didn't hurt that Jimmy Stewart had continued his beloved career during the interim, and then this favored actor was in an old film which was now free to view. This is one story that taught Hollywood a few things about Box Office, popularity, etc.

Another point was that Barrymore, Warner, and Travis passed before the film became popular, and Donna Reed was on the verge of a 13 year hiatus from roles.

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