Sully by JEWELSTAITEFAN

CINEMA

Sully

POSTED BY: JEWELSTAITEFAN
UPDATED: Tuesday, September 20, 2016 16:25
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VIEWED: 3641
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Thursday, September 15, 2016 8:00 PM

What a wonderful film.

For those not aware, prior attempts to land a commercial passenger jet in water have never resulted in zero fatalities. Most result in cartwheeling and/or catastrophic breakup of the fuselage. For all employees of airlines, a failure to reach land and to go down in water is a horrific scenario to contemplate, because we all know that the odds throughout aviation history are that there WILL be fatalities - and most often, not any survivors. In fact, many had thought it to be impossible - and that theory had never, ever been disproven.

Select to view spoiler:

I enjoyed the mystery component that was in the storyline - I don't know if that was a factual set of events, or if it was injected with literary license to give some plot/tension.

For cinematic craft, one of the best films of the year, and I do recommend it to any reasonable person.

You might think that with a real-life event, and an assumed knowledge of the result of the event, it may not hold your attention. Part of this is dealt with by having a non-linear time sequence, ala Out of Gas.

Select to view spoiler:

It may be that Sully's right ring finger has a time travel device.

Some flashbacks as well - and because Clint does not spoon-feed the audience which scene is in which point in time, you kinda need to pay attention to the scene transitions, so this helps keep your interest.

I expect second will hate this film, because the truth wins out, and all of the blame-the-pilot-cretins fail to win this skirmish.

You may wish to take a hanky.
On Tuesday night my theater was more than half full. When credits rolled, nobody moved for at least a minute - codas were also running. Then about 10-15% departed. As main cast credits started to roll, about another half departed. After the final coda, most left, only a few remained.

This also puts Anna Gunn in two films this week in cinema, along with Equity.

I will likely buy this so I can revel on demand in Eastwood's craft work.

Also, for those who play "6 degrees" games, this puts together Hanks, Eckhart, and Linney, which connects a bunch of links.

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Friday, September 16, 2016 1:03 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

I expect second will hate this film, because the truth wins out, and all of the blame-the-pilot-cretins fail to win this skirmish.

I liked this film. Are you still pissed off about Air France flight 447?
www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=36&tid=60743

There is an old pilot’s fatalistic joke that you’re not dead until you run out of airspeed, altitude and ideas all at the same time. Sully actually asked his co-pilot just before they hit the water, “You got any ideas?” “Nope.” That was funny last words for the black box flight recorder.

I liked the part where they are flying a simulator and landing at Teterboro, New Jersey with both engines off and the National Transportation Safety Board is watching every move. That was nerve-wracking and it was only a computer simulation.

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Friday, September 16, 2016 3:43 AM

SHINYGOODGUY

I've heard good things and I was going to see it opening night, but fell ill
and decided to stay home and recuperate. Made the right decision, I wouldn't have enjoyed it feeling the way I did.

Eastwood is a great filmmaker, storyteller (republican mouthpiece, not so much); my favorites are Million Dollar Baby and Unforgiven (in that order).
I will make room for the film this weekend.

Thanks for the review.

SGG

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Friday, September 16, 2016 11:27 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Sully’s “Miracle on the Hudson” safety advice not carried out
By Joan Lowy ASSOCIATED PRESS

www.denverpost.com/2016/09/15/sullys-miracle-on-the-hudson-safety-advi
ce-not-carried-out/

WASHINGTON — In the seven years since an airline captain saved 155 lives by ditching his crippled airliner in the Hudson River, there’s been enough time to write a book and make a movie, but apparently not enough to carry out most of the safety recommendations stemming from the accident.

Of the 35 recommendations made by the National Transportation Safety Board in response to the incident involving US Airways Flight 1549, only six have been heeded, according to an Associated Press review of board records.

The movie “Sully,” which opened in theaters last week, is based in part on an autobiography by veteran pilot Chesley “Sully” Sullenberger, played by Tom Hanks. It celebrates how Sullenberger, along with his co-pilot, flight attendants, air traffic controllers, ferryboat operators and first responders, did their jobs with professionalism and competence, averting a potential tragedy. The plane lost thrust in both engines after colliding with a flock of Canada geese shortly after takeoff from LaGuardia Airport in New York. No one died, and only five people were seriously injured.

FAA ‘very upset’

“The FAA was very upset back then that we made any recommendations at all,” recalled Tom Haueter, who was the NTSB’s head of aviation safety at the time. “They thought this was a success story.”

But to investigators, the event turned up problems.

“This could happen again, and we want to make sure that if it does, there are some better safety measures in place,” Haueter said.

Fourteen of the recommendations issued to the Federal Aviation Administration and its European counterpart, EASA, are marked by the NTSB as “closed-unacceptable,” which means that regulators rejected the advice. One has been withdrawn, and the rest remain unresolved.

The untold story of the “Miracle on the Hudson” was the part luck played in preventing catastrophe on that freezing afternoon in January 2009. The wind chill was 2 degrees and the water temperature was 41 degrees, raising the risk of “cold shock,” a condition in which people lose the use of their arms and legs, usually soon drowning.

It was sheer chance that the plane, an Airbus A320, was equipped with rafts, life vests and seat cushions that can be used for flotation. The equipment is only required on “extended overwater” flights and not on Flight 1549’s New York to Charlotte, N.C., route.

The NTSB recommended requiring life vests and flotation cushions on all planes, regardless of the route. But the FAA responded that it was leaving that up to the airlines.

Standing on the wings

The board also recommended that vest storage be redesigned for easier retrieval. The NTSB’s investigation found that only 10 passengers retrieved life vests and not all of them put them on correctly. Despite some changes by the FAA, the board says it still takes more than a few seconds to retrieve vests, which is as much time as passengers are willing to take when exiting a plane filling with water.

Because Flight 1549’s descent was faster than the plane is designed to handle for a ditching, the underside of the aircraft was damaged when it hit the water. The two rear rafts were submerged and unusable. That left only the two forward rafts, which are designed to hold a maximum of 110 people — well short of the 155 on board. Many of the passengers wound up standing on the wings as the plane gradually sank into the river.

The NTSB recommended changing the location of the rafts to ensure capacity for all passengers, since it’s unlikely the rear rafts would be available. The FAA rejected that, saying that if Sullenberger had followed Airbus’ directions on descent speeds for ditching, the rear rafts would have been usable. The NTSB said the ability of pilots to achieve those descent speeds has never been tested and can’t be relied on.

Some passengers wound up using the inflated exit ramps as rafts even though they’re not designed for that. But passengers weren’t able to release the ramps from the plane, running the risk that the ramps would be pulled underwater along with it. The NTSB recommended requiring quick-release attachments for ramps. The FAA rejected the advice, saying its analysis shows that the attachments were likely to be fully or partially underwater. NTSB said its investigation showed that wasn’t the case.

In the movie, immediately after Flight 1549’s engines quit, first officer Jeff Skiles, played by Aaron Eckhart, began going through a checklist of procedures for restarting the engines. Pilots are trained to do that in an emergency when they don’t know how to fix a problem, but Skiles was only able to get through a fraction of the checklist items before the plane landed in the river.

The NTSB’s investigation showed the procedures were designed for a dual-engine failure at a cruising altitude above 20,000 feet, high enough for pilots to complete the list while descending and still have time to regain altitude. But Flight 1549 collided with the geese at an altitude of only 2,818 feet. Among NTSB’s closed-unacceptable recommendations are that the FAA require airlines to include procedures for a low-altitude, dual-engine failure in checklists and pilot training.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Saturday, September 17, 2016 3:01 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Sully’s “Miracle on the Hudson” safety advice not carried out
By Joan Lowy ASSOCIATED PRESS

www.denverpost.com/2016/09/15/sullys-miracle-on-the-hudson-safety-advi
ce-not-carried-out/

In the movie, immediately after Flight 1549’s engines quit, first officer Jeff Skiles, played by Aaron Eckhart, began going through a checklist of procedures for restarting the engines. Pilots are trained to do that in an emergency when they don’t know how to fix a problem, but Skiles was only able to get through a fraction of the checklist items before the plane landed in the river.

This is incorrect. It was not immediately - and in terms of seconds, they had a total of 208 seconds, and of that, 35 seconds is a buttload.
In the film, the checklist was pulled out after Sully directed Skiles to do so. This was after the Jet Turbo-propulsion engines had spooled down, they both were evaluating the situation, Sully started the APU, and which seemed to take about 35 seconds - which was the critical time dealt with in the film.
After the engines had spooled down, the electrical generators and hydraulic pumps lose their functions, and Capt Sully started the Auxilliary Power Unit (a small engine, passengers may be familiar with their sound as they are waiting for pushback or during boarding - the APUs are usually used to start the jet engines, or the first engine), which is started via battery power or other available electrical power (these jet engines are not started - spun up - via electrical power), and thus was able to provide electrical power and hydraulic power to the stricken aircraft.

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Sunday, September 18, 2016 12:56 AM

SHINYGOODGUY

Went to see it today. It felt a little like a documentary, but it was well done. I don't think it's Oscar material, but it was good.

SGG

Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
What a wonderful film.

For those not aware, prior attempts to land a commercial passenger jet in water have never resulted in zero fatalities. Most result in cartwheeling and/or catastrophic breakup of the fuselage. For all employees of airlines, a failure to reach land and to go down in water is a horrific scenario to contemplate, because we all know that the odds throughout aviation history are that there WILL be fatalities - and most often, not any survivors. In fact, many had thought it to be impossible - and that theory had never, ever been disproven.

Select to view spoiler:

I enjoyed the mystery component that was in the storyline - I don't know if that was a factual set of events, or if it was injected with literary license to give some plot/tension.

For cinematic craft, one of the best films of the year, and I do recommend it to any reasonable person.

You might think that with a real-life event, and an assumed knowledge of the result of the event, it may not hold your attention. Part of this is dealt with by having a non-linear time sequence, ala Out of Gas.
Select to view spoiler:

It may be that Sully's right ring finger has a time travel device.

Some flashbacks as well - and because Clint does not spoon-feed the audience which scene is in which point in time, you kinda need to pay attention to the scene transitions, so this helps keep your interest.

I expect second will hate this film, because the truth wins out, and all of the blame-the-pilot-cretins fail to win this skirmish.

You may wish to take a hanky.
On Tuesday night my theater was more than half full. When credits rolled, nobody moved for at least a minute - codas were also running. Then about 10-15% departed. As main cast credits started to roll, about another half departed. After the final coda, most left, only a few remained.

This also puts Anna Gunn in two films this week in cinema, along with Equity.

I will likely buy this so I can revel on demand in Eastwood's craft work.

Also, for those who play "6 degrees" games, this puts together Hanks, Eckhart, and Linney, which connects a bunch of links.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, September 18, 2016 10:40 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

This is incorrect.
In the film, the checklist was ulled out after Sully directed Skiles to do so. This was after the Jet Turbo-propulsion engines had spooled down, they both were evaluating the situation, Sully started the APU, and which seemed to take about 35 seconds - which was the critical time dealt with in the film.

You missed a step -- the step where Sully said, "Ignition start." The movie shows him reach down to flick a switch below the throttles. The engines don't start. Only then does he say, "I'm starting the APU." And he reaches up high to start the APU. I'm looking at the video.

"Ignition start."

"I'm starting the APU."

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, September 18, 2016 2:20 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN

It could be helpful while watching the film to remember that all of the cabin crew would have been fully aware that water landings had never ever had 100% survival, but often had 100% fatality, and they all must have been expecting that these were the final seconds of their lives, while chanting instructions to all of the passengers.

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
This is incorrect.
In the film, the checklist was pulled out after Sully directed Skiles to do so. This was after the Jet Turbo-propulsion engines had spooled down, they both were evaluating the situation, Sully started the APU, and which seemed to take about 35 seconds - which was the critical time dealt with in the film.
You missed a step -- the step where Sully said, "Ignition start." The movie shows him reach down to flick a switch below the throttles. The engines don't start. Only then does he say, "I'm starting the APU." And he reaches up high to start the APU. I'm looking at the video.

"Ignition start."

"I'm starting the APU."

I am going from my recall of the film, I don't have video.
I did not name all of the steps Sully and Skiles took, but Skiles did not pull out the checklist, nor look for it, until Sully directed so, and this occurred many seconds after bird strike, perhaps the 35 critical seconds mentioned in the film.

I also was unable to post the point (in the film) that the checklist restart sequence specified an airspeed which the A320 did not have and Sully could ill afford to get (exchanging altitude for airspeed) - I think they needed 320 knots and only had 220 or 260.
This was a procedure used to restart jet engines which are turning, or rotating fast enough for the turbo-propulsion stages to allow correct sequential ignition, and the engines would need to be turning fast enough while idling through the air at glide rate. They were not.
The other way to get the engines (when they are functional, having all of their blades intact) spooling fast enough is by directing the air pressure, (pneumatic) into the jet engine cowling to spin it up, which is how it is done at first start on the ground. This air pressure is supplied by the APU.

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Monday, September 19, 2016 8:11 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN

I have heard some talk comparing Hanks to his other roles, but the one not mentioned is Apollo 13, which i think is the most appropriate. Real person, facing a real life and death situation, time is critical.
Neither Apollo nor Sully seem to have a bunch of made-up storylines. So, yes, when the Oscars are cluttered with Ice Age and such, performances like in Sully may not be viable come Oscar time. But Hanks as Sully was a far better performance than any Toy Story.

One thing I don't recall about Sully: Did he declare a MayDay? I had sorta assumed he would, so if it happened it slipped right past me without notice. But if no Mayday was declared, was this intentional? I don't know enough about what ramifications a declared Mayday incurs versus not declaring it. I noticed the transponder was switched to all 7s, but I just don't recall if Sully announced MayDay.

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Tuesday, September 20, 2016 4:25 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Sully didn’t do it alone, and he knew that he didn’t. There was another hand flying that Airbus to a heart-stopping splashdown. If you watch the movie carefully you can catch a fleeting glimpse of what I’m talking about.

In the final seconds before the airplane hits the water you’ll see Sully’s left hand (or rather Tom Hanks’s hand playing Sully’s gifted hand) on the sidestick controlling the airplane. He appears to be pulling hard back to keep the nose up.

In fact, Sully’s command was being overridden by the Airbus’s own brain. It reduced the nose-up angle by two-and-a-half degrees. Sully wasn’t pulling back too hard, he wanted all the angle he could get to soften the impact on the water. But he knew that the airplane itself was computing how to preserve control when at the limits of its ability to keep flying, and that it would know how to do that better than he did. This turned out to be an extraordinary, exquisite moment when a machine and a man, together, got it exactly right.

Had the airplane had conventional controls with a yoke, or wheel, directly in front of the pilots – the classic “joystick” of aviation legend – the end of that flight might have been very different. But the Airbus has that sidestick, looking a lot like an old Atari control stick. And the sidestick is transmitting input from the pilot into the computers where it is governed by a system called envelope protection.

Put simply, the envelope is a kind of three-dimensional box in the sky inside which the airplane remains stable and under control and outside which it must not stray for fear of crashing.

When an airplane is on the margins, as Sully’s was, the greatest danger is an aerodynamic stall. If the airplane is flying too slowly and the nose is up, its wings will suddenly lose all lift – and the pilot loses all control over what it then does.

Sully’s own brain was processing his situation as acutely as the computer was, with the kind of instincts and acuity that only a pilot at the top of his game has. In the 300 or so seconds since the bird strike took out both of his engines Sully’s brain had made multiple calls and all of them were right.

The intervention of the computer to lower the nose meant that Sully had one less pressure on him when his hand on the sidestick was taking another action that made all the difference between surviving and disaster.

“He kept his wings almost perfectly level at touchdown” Robert Benzon, who led the National Transportation Safety Board’s investigation into the accident, told The Daily Beast. “A dipped wing would have turned the A320 into a water-borne Frisbee.” Killing nearly EVERYONE!

www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/09/18/the-unsung-hero-left-out-of-
sully.html

You can see what could have happened starting a 4:30 in this video of an actual crash:

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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