DOLLHOUSE

Dollhouse: Omega - Echo meets Capt. Kirk and Mr. Spock. Post comments here.

POSTED BY: HAKEN
UPDATED: Friday, May 29, 2009 15:53
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VIEWED: 2855
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Friday, May 8, 2009 8:25 AM

HAKEN

Likes to mess with stuffs.


Of all the weekends this decade to have a season (series?) finale for a TV show, this one is definitely not it.

Watch Dollhouse if you can, otherwise, dang, just forget everything you know about Star Trek and go see 'Star Trek.'

I'm sure it'll be one of the best couple of hours you're going to spend watching anything in a long while.


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Friday, May 8, 2009 9:20 AM

ZEEK


Star Trek pssh I'll be watching Dollhouse 100%. I'm way more interested in Alpha than Spock.

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Friday, May 8, 2009 10:14 AM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.


I'll be watching Dollhouse too.

I am going to see Star Trek eventually, but not right away. I'm sure it'll be in theaters at least a couple of weeks. I'd rather wait until the crowds aren't as big as they will be this weekend.

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Friday, May 8, 2009 2:37 PM

CELLARDOOR


Meh, I saw Star Trek already (itwasawesomegoseeit--hehe, I said go se), so I have no divided loyalties tonight! ^_^ I'll be hopping back here for commercial breaks and reading up afterward. Already told my family not to interrupt me from 8-9 (CST), though I would *rather* I had been able to get them hooked with me... =\

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Friday, May 8, 2009 4:11 PM

CELLARDOOR


Whew, that was a pretty amazing episode. I'm still processing it.

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Friday, May 8, 2009 4:12 PM

SCHISM


Well.

Now it's said and done....what did you think?






Do you really think they'll make Ballard an agent/handler?

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Friday, May 8, 2009 4:16 PM

CELLARDOOR













Well, if he thought he could protect Caroline better that way... It's clear the FBI rejected his final offer. Hmm... is it possible Paul would become a doll in trade for Madeline/Mellie, and that's why he said he's "Nobody"? I'm not quite sure how to interpret Adelle's term "contractor" in Paul's case.

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Friday, May 8, 2009 4:26 PM

ZEEK


Quote:

Originally posted by CellarDoor:
Whew, that was a pretty amazing episode. I'm still processing it.


SPOILERS BELOW! GO WATCH!
SPOILERS BELOW! GO WATCH!
SPOILERS BELOW! GO WATCH!
SPOILERS BELOW! GO WATCH!
SPOILERS BELOW! GO WATCH!


Really? I was sorta unimpressed. Alpha was scarier when he was more of an unknown.

I saw Echo/Omega turning on him coming a mile away.

Sorta like that Topher made Dr. Saunders hate him. Shows he feels bad and wants to punish himself.

I wonder if November's gone for good. Sorta Joss's way of killing a character in the world of Dollhouse?

I don't really get Ballard joining up. I guess he could be trying to learn what it will take to take the thing down but he's an idiot. They've been playing him for years. Now he's just making it easier on them.

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Friday, May 8, 2009 4:29 PM

CELLARDOOR


(I'm not going to write that anymore, since I hope people have gotten the hint by now!) ^_^





Zeek, isn't it possible that Ballard did what he did because he actually did love Mellie (as much as one can given the circumstances and his thoughts on the matter)? Do note that there are multiple definitions of the word "love" too, in a C.S. Lewisian sense. It's not a very complicated answer, but as Adelle pointed out, he's not an extremely bright person. I'm sure he has other reasons for trying to infiltrate though, probably.

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Friday, May 8, 2009 6:18 PM

BYTEMITE


Speaking of watching, I just checked hulu, which said that episode 13 will NOT be available. And then I googled around, and turns out it's not anywhere.

So everyone who's only option is to watch on the internet (like myself): Sorry!

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Friday, May 8, 2009 6:24 PM

CELLARDOOR


Hm, BM? No, the 13th episode won't be aired/broadcast anywhere either. Is it possible you're confusing the "to DVD only" stand-alone episode with "Omega" the last (12th) episode?

There was a mix up in the numbering because the original plot (which would have made 13 episodes) was cannibalized for other episodes and scrapped, but to fill the 13 DVD-ordered episodes, Joss talked Fox into letting him film a futuristic stand-alone episode on the Dollhouse set.

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Friday, May 8, 2009 7:39 PM

BYTEMITE


I sure hope so.

I'll check tomorrow again.

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Saturday, May 9, 2009 2:37 AM

KHAMBILO


At this point, I hoping we didn't just watch a SERIES finale. There is so much for this show to go on for a second season!

But this episode was amazing. I loved how we saw Dr. Saunder's background finally. I know a lot of people were expecting her to be a doll, but to me, that conclusion seemed to easy to come by. I guess that's why it suprised me when we finally did see her as a doll.

There is one thing that confused me. I was checking out the dollhouse wiki page for Omega, and there was a couple of photos in which we see November and Sierra in their bounty hunter personalities at the power plant where that final confrontation took place. But they never showed up in the episode. Were they just cut from that scene or what?

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Saturday, May 9, 2009 2:56 AM

DAVESHAYNE


Quote:

Originally posted by Schism:
Do you really think they'll make Ballard an agent/handler?



He's going to be looking for Alpha so he'll probably be a sort of roving investigator type. Maybe called in for other security problems but mostly out trying to pin down the genius psycho killer with many personalities (only one of which is multiple.)

This was an awesome episode. Lots of resolution. Folks calling Ballard a bastard last week because he chose to leave November behind get to retract their statements now I think.

David

'Geeks can't admit that anything worthwhile was invented before 1981. Soon, "making cocoa" will be called "milk hacking."' - Lore Sjoberg



"Don't worry. Captain Hammer will save us." - Penny.

I has myspace - http://www.myspace.com/daveshayneforpresident

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Saturday, May 9, 2009 4:38 AM

EARLYWARNING


Ballards a "Doll". Just look at his jaw

Gorramit Jim, Im a doctor not a frackin Colonial Marine

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Saturday, May 9, 2009 4:46 AM

SCHISM


Quote:

Originally posted by CellarDoor:











Well, if he thought he could protect Caroline better that way... It's clear the FBI rejected his final offer. Hmm... is it possible Paul would become a doll in trade for Madeline/Mellie, and that's why he said he's "Nobody"? I'm not quite sure how to interpret Adelle's term "contractor" in Paul's case.




Good point.
By 'nobody' I just assumed he meant "it's a long story and you don't want to know".
However...
But...
Would he willingly become one?
Or is it because he plans to work for/with them, with mind intact, but nonetheless working for a no-name organization, he in essence becomes 'nobody'?

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Saturday, May 9, 2009 7:06 AM

GOOSE5068


Just watched Dollhouse because i dvr'd it because i had to workd yesterday and what a episode it was. Alan played alpha very very well and eliza played echo(with all the imprints) very well. What i was suprised about is how much i liked the whole wiskey storyline exspecially at the end when the doc was talking to topher.overall i think this was the best episode this season like all season finale episodes should be and i pray that dollhouse gets a second season. what is the name of the song at the end of the epsiode

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Saturday, May 9, 2009 11:37 AM

SLAYERCHICK


The song was "Everybody's Gotta Love Sometimes" by Beck...it was the end credits song in the film "Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind".

VERY happy with the music in this one!

Not gonna cry if Dollhouse gets canceled, since I've already consigned myself to that eventuality. But did anyone else feel that the last few episodes, interesting and entertaining as they were, were proof that the first four or five episodes didn't have to exist at all?


***************************************
Morena Baccarin and Nathan Fillion, when asked about the Mal and Inara dynamic:

Morena: Who knows where this relationship is going.
Nathan: If I had my druthers, if we ever hook up I hope it’s on my death bed.
Morena: You don’t want to kiss me, do you?
Nathan: I do. But not for the sake of the show.
Morena: Good answer.
***************************************
*sigh* even adorable off screen...

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Saturday, May 9, 2009 3:12 PM

BYTEMITE


I suspect that the Dollhouse isn't going to use him as an independent contractor after all (too much of a loose cannon), and Ballard suspects as well. He's either going to be a doll, or sent immediately to the attic. He realized he could make one last deal, and Mellie's freedom was what he negotiated.

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Saturday, May 9, 2009 4:08 PM

GOOSE5068


Quote:

episodes, interesting and entertaining as they were, were proof that the first four or five episodes didn't have to exist at all?


I second that. When Joss can do his thing his shows rock but when you have fox or really any company though expecially fox messing with ones show the company always finds a way to screw it up they are the one that loose the fans in the first five episodes not joss. thanks for the song title slyerchick. Ps its Everybody's Gotta Learn Sometimes not love.

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Saturday, May 9, 2009 5:36 PM

ASARIAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Zeek:
Sorta like that Topher made Dr. Saunders hate him. Shows he feels bad and wants to punish himself.


Yes, I thought that was an excellent twist. It goes back to what Ballard said (and Caroline, with her comment about wiping a slate clean), that you cannot erase the human soul, the essence of who they are. And that, consequently, even in their worst state and lowest descent, people always have that small voice of conscience within them, which can never quite be completely drowned out by their wrongdoings, and which always seeks and succeeds to surface, one way or the other.

Quote:

Originally posted by slayerchick:
The song was "Everybody's Gotta Love Sometimes" by Beck...it was the end credits song in the film "Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind".


Missed that one. :) Nice touch, though.

Overall, I liked the season finale. It offers enough possibilities for a next season, yet also leaves me with enough of a sense of closure, should the show get canceled.

And Whiskey? If there was ever any doubt, she truly was the most beautiful doll of them all. And I happen to think Amy Acker is just an incredibly good actress. Her walking away, "I know who I am" on her lips, wow, that gave me the chills (much better, IMHO, than Echo muttering a quick "Caroline" in her sarcophagus-like bunk). So, more Whiskey, please! In fact, just leave the bottle. :)


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Saturday, May 9, 2009 8:30 PM

SINGATE


I was a little off on the whole Whiskey thing. I thought for sure that she and Alpha came in together and that was the persona he was after. Their interaction during that client's fantasy was a dead ringer for Mickey and Mallory of Natural Born Killers...really good stuff.

Though I really enjoyed Alan's work, this episode didn't quite have the punch of last week's. The whole bit with Caroline's wedge was just stupid. He could have destroyed it at anytime, then when he tosses it, it just happens land on some pipes. Kinda lame. I guess that was to set up Ballard's "rescue" of her persona.

Speaking of Ballard I think he is trying to make the best of a no win situation. He must be hoping to take them down from the inside, perhaps with the assistance of a certain head of security. Why Dewitt doesn't have him killed is beyond me. Unless there is something deeper going on with him. Why else would they have been stringing him along this whole time? I don't think he's a doll, that would be too easy.

I thought for sure that Alpha and or "Saunders" would be dead by the end. Kudos for keeping them around. I concur with everyone who would like to see more of Whiskey. Holding out hope for a season 2 but I think the prospects are slim.

_________________________________________________

We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.

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Saturday, May 9, 2009 8:33 PM

CELLARDOOR


Quote:

Originally posted by singate:


Speaking of Ballard I think he is trying to make the best of a no win situation. He must be hoping to take them down from the inside, perhaps with the assistance of a certain head of security. Why Dewitt doesn't have him killed is beyond me. Unless there is something deeper going on with him. Why else would they have been stringing him along this whole time? I don't think he's a doll, that would be too easy.



Or shallower... some of the folks at Whedonesque think Adelle might have a thing for Paul. They may just be looking for fodder for fan fic though. ;) I agree though upon further reflection: Paul's not going to be a doll, nor is he one already.

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Sunday, May 10, 2009 1:34 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Great epp. Very complicated. Is the script posted online?

I'll wait for Star Trek on TV.

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Sunday, May 10, 2009 2:27 AM

DAVESHAYNE


Quote:

Originally posted by singate:
The whole bit with Caroline's wedge was just stupid. He could have destroyed it at anytime, then when he tosses it, it just happens land on some pipes.



I thought he deliberately tossed it on the girder so Echo/Caroline would have to choose between saving herself and catching him. Though it did fall very neatly into Paul's hands I will admit.

David

'Geeks can't admit that anything worthwhile was invented before 1981. Soon, "making cocoa" will be called "milk hacking."' - Lore Sjoberg



"Don't worry. Captain Hammer will save us." - Penny.

I has myspace - http://www.myspace.com/daveshayneforpresident

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Sunday, May 10, 2009 4:47 AM

ASARIAN


Quote:

Originally posted by CellarDoor:
Or shallower... some of the folks at Whedonesque think Adelle might have a thing for Paul. They may just be looking for fodder for fan fic though. ;) I agree though upon further reflection: Paul's not going to be a doll, nor is he one already.


Or more complicated: they imprinted him with the persona of... Ballard! :) Only, this time, more amiable towards the Dollhouse.

Seriously, though, him being a doll would be pretty lame: you can only play "The 13th Floor" card so many times. I think Adelle just keeps him around because he's more useful alive than dead; alive he's a suspended fool no one believes; dead he's a good reason for the Feds to take him seriously. Also, lest we forget, at the start of the series we learned there are powers way up in the Buro that don't want to pull the plug on his investigation. And best way to alert the scout-master is to kill one of his boy-scouts. Adelle knows this, of course. Plus, I think it simply serves her to have an ear on the wall, in terms of staying informed as to how much the Buro knows exactly. Besides, if anything, this ep showed that Ballard's methodology is sound: as a Federal Agent, he falls back on proven investigative techniques that get results. And right now, Alpha is more of a threat than Ballard, really.


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Sunday, May 10, 2009 5:07 AM

SCHISM


As much as I loved the ep, I'm still wondering why Alpha;

a) Ran away when he had the upper hand

b) Ran UP a building to escape

c) Threw away his main bargaining chip

d) Wasn't pursued by the others.


Oh, and am I grasping at FF references by pointing out Topher's "put them on the shelf beside our glass jars with fireflies" reference?

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Sunday, May 10, 2009 5:07 AM

ASARIAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Schism:

Good point.
By 'nobody' I just assumed he meant "it's a long story and you don't want to know".
However...
But...
Would he willingly become one?
Or is it because he plans to work for/with them, with mind intact, but nonetheless working for a no-name organization, he in essence becomes 'nobody'?


I simply took his 'nobody' as his way of not wanting to take advantage of Mellie again, after having slept with her (knowing she was a doll and all). I think. this time, he wanted to do something for her and keep his conscience clean in the process. Not exploiting the moment, saying: "I'm Paul Ballard, the Federal Agent that busted his ass to rescue you;" but just giving her back her freedom, no strings attached (including not going for the hero-worship). Remember the fat internet guy? He strongly implied Ballard just wanted to save Caroline so he could set himself up as the hero for her. Against all manner of immorality around him, I think Ballard decided to stay true to his own self: for himself, and possibly to make a point towards Adelle.


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Sunday, May 10, 2009 5:31 AM

ASARIAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Schism:
As much as I loved the ep, I'm still wondering why Alpha;

a) Ran away when he had the upper hand

b) Ran UP a building to escape

c) Threw away his main bargaining chip

d) Wasn't pursued by the others.


Yes, questions. :) Good ones! Alpha running UP a building was done, I reckon, so he could throw that hard disk down. But, in earnest, it was an incredibly stupid thing to do. With one Federal Agent and a cop downstairs, he was totally trapped and should never have made it out there.

And as much as I loved the ep, I'm still wondering why;

a) Alpha gets hit, mid-face, with a lead pipe, and seems hardly affected by it.

b) Echo gets shot in her arm/shoulder, and seems equally un-affected by it.


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Sunday, May 10, 2009 9:13 AM

GILLIANROSE


I really liked the episode a lot, and I so hope we get more. One part I thought was so moving, Echo comforting Topher at the end. Topher, the character that denies the existence of a person's immutable soul. But I have a question, and I'm throwing myself on your collective mercy if it's a stupid one. Why does autonomous/aware Echo consent to go back to the Dollhouse and be wiped again? Is it that the Dollhouse is holding her true, Caroline identity hostage? That didn't work when Alpha tried it. Did she come to some kind of agreement to go back and work with Ballard and the Dollhouse to catch Alpha?

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Sunday, May 10, 2009 11:27 AM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.


Caroline, when she was in Wendy's body, made mention of the fact that she had made a five year commitment to the Dollhouse. The way it was worded made me think she entered into the agreement of her own free will. She may have been under some duress in her real life, but DeWitt did not force her to sign. She decided she needed to fulfill her obligation.



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Sunday, May 10, 2009 12:45 PM

GILLIANROSE


I thought of that, but Echo rejected that argument so immediately and so forcefully, I can't help but wonder if there wasn't something else going on. And Caroline herself didn't seem emotionally determined, e.g., "I signed a contract and I intend to honor it."

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Sunday, May 10, 2009 3:01 PM

GINOBIFFARONI


At one point I started to wonder if Topher was a doll ?


and if so, why not other staff members...


It would be a hell of a way to protect the home office.




" They don't hate America, they hate Americans " Homer Simpson


Lets party like its 1939

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Sunday, May 10, 2009 8:26 PM

SHINYGOODGUY


I really liked the episode a lot, and I so hope we get more. One part I thought was so moving, Echo comforting Topher at the end.

Me, too!
--------------------------------------------
Why does autonomous/aware Echo consent to go back to the Dollhouse and be wiped again? Is it that the Dollhouse is holding her true, Caroline identity hostage?

A very good question G-Rose: Here's what I got from this ep (the more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that it was brilliant. Anticlimatic, maybe, but brilliant.) Bear with me a minute; I'm gonna answer your other question first that will lead into the above question. Actually your statement: That didn't work when Alpha tried it.
It did work, but it didn't have the desired affect. Alpha assumed that it would drive Echo "crazy" but there was an interesting point that Ballard made when he was talking with Adelle and Boyd. He said something to the affect that ultimately your true self comes out, your soul or inner being. For Alpha it was the already brain damaged killer. For Echo it was Caroline who was determined to make a difference.

Echo, in that moment, had merged with Caroline. Her true self had emerged in that moment. I understood at the end, upon reading everyone's comments, that's what she meant when Echo uttered Caroline's name in her "bunk". Echo's aware of Caroline, and, I believe Caroline is now aware of Echo. Remember, Echo is aware of her surroundings. The proof, her comforting of Topher. The absolution scene from the Firefly Pilot. She pardoned his past transgressions with that touch, much like Inara did with Book.

Alpha's plan had backfired, he wanted his Frankenstein Bride and tried to make a doll out of Echo/Caroline. Echo "knew" this wasn't right and responded accordingly.
---------------------------------------------
Which brings me full-circle to answer the question about Echo's return to the Dollhouse. Go back a few eps when Echo told Adelle that she wanted to go and finish an assignment with the millionaire who lost his wife. She was compelled to finish that assignment. Why? Echo had a sense of accomplishment, a purpose, Caroline's vow to make a difference. This was not imprinted in her mind, it came from somewhere else. The composite brought out her true self. Echo knows that the Dollhouse still exists, that the assignment is not over. She is not completely wiped - "Caroline" is aware and Echo can do something about it.
-------------------------------------------

SGG


Tawabawho?

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Sunday, May 10, 2009 8:45 PM

SHINYGOODGUY


Dollhouse was set up to fail from the start. First, I heard that it was supposed to begin Wednesday nights but was switched out for Lie to Me. Then I heard that it was placed on the Friday Death Slot (especially the beginning of the Summer Blockbuster season, which always begins in May).

Star Trek is a much-anticipated movie which expects to draw millions of fans, both old and new. Have not seen it but the Buzz is it was very well made and will likely appeal to the masses.
Fox's track record has shown them to be like fish out of water when it comes to shows with complicated and unique premises.

SGG




Tawabawho?

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Sunday, May 10, 2009 9:22 PM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.


Quote:

Originally posted by GillianRose:
I thought of that, but Echo rejected that argument so immediately and so forcefully, I can't help but wonder if there wasn't something else going on. And Caroline herself didn't seem emotionally determined, e.g., "I signed a contract and I intend to honor it."


The only thing I can think of off the top of my head is her comment to Alpha along the lines of "Why would I want to live in a luxurious spa-like environment when I could stay HERE with YOU!" (insert swinging pipe) She seems to know there that her options might be kind of limited.

I liked the episode, but I was almost disappointed that the 'composite event' wasn't... really something that just happened. Clearly things were kind of starting to bleed out in Alpha (literally, in one case) but the true composite was something that was done to him. All of Dominique's assertions that Echo could 'become another Alpha' were patently false, and yet it was never pointed out that the composite had been the result of a judgment error that they knew better than to repeat. That kind of bugs me.

[/sig]

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Monday, May 11, 2009 3:17 AM

CYBERSNARK


I thought it was pretty clear that Echo returned because she wants the Caroline imprint returned to her. She doesn't have Alpha's specialized knowledge to rebuild a new Chair, so she needs the one that's in the Dollhouse. Only way to get access to it is to willingly walk right back in.

It's not a surrender, it's a calculated submission.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Monday, May 11, 2009 6:44 AM

ZEEK


Quote:

Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
I liked the episode, but I was almost disappointed that the 'composite event' wasn't... really something that just happened. Clearly things were kind of starting to bleed out in Alpha (literally, in one case) but the true composite was something that was done to him. All of Dominique's assertions that Echo could 'become another Alpha' were patently false, and yet it was never pointed out that the composite had been the result of a judgment error that they knew better than to repeat. That kind of bugs me.


The composite event was very lame. It was just an accident basically. It was also lame that Alpha's interest in Echo was just a crush. There was nothing truly unique or special about her. Those were both let downs IMO.

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Monday, May 11, 2009 8:14 AM

SAB39


Quote:

Originally posted by Zeek:
The composite event was very lame. It was just an accident basically. It was also lame that Alpha's interest in Echo was just a crush. There was nothing truly unique or special about her. Those were both let downs IMO.


Agreed about the composite event but I completely disagree that Echo not being unique/special is a letdown. It's actually one of the things I like a lot about Dollhouse as compared to some of Joss's prior shows.

Joss is known for his strong female characters but an alarming (to me) proportion of his female characters end up with what amount to superpowers of some sort (even in Firefly where just about all of them have an extraordinary talent that "just comes naturally" to them).

One thing I like about Echo and Ballard and Alpha is that neither the heroine nor the hero nor the villain really have superpowers or extraordinary talents. They're just ordinary people who are thrown into an extraordinary situation and do extraordinary things as a result.


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Monday, May 11, 2009 7:41 PM

ASARIAN


Quote:

Originally posted by PhoenixRose:

I liked the episode, but I was almost disappointed that the 'composite event' wasn't... really something that just happened. Clearly things were kind of starting to bleed out in Alpha (literally, in one case) but the true composite was something that was done to him. All of Dominique's assertions that Echo could 'become another Alpha' were patently false, and yet it was never pointed out that the composite had been the result of a judgment error that they knew better than to repeat. That kind of bugs me.


Bugged me, too. From the get-go, the 'composite event' was set up to be, say, the anomalous resultant of a repeated imprinting process. Something unexpected; something as of yet inexplicable. Hence Topher's initial "Couldn't; shouldn't; did." And, indeed, Dominique indicated, many times, that Echo was on her way of going the way of Alpha, too. And now it turns out the 'composite event' was nothing more than Topher running a Chair-experiment-gone-awry, using all Alpha's previous imprints in an inopportune fashion. So, they knew full-well what went wrong all along. And it's apparently a repeatable process (as Alpha does it on Echo without much ado). See, I got nothing against brilliant Jossian plot-twists, where it turns out the man had us fooled the whole time, ... as long as it's indeed based on said brilliance, and not on a rather sizeable continuation error.

As for Echo returning to the Dollhouse, I get the whole "It's not finished" rationale; I'm just not buying it. Never have, really. Oh, I realize that that's probably what they intended it to be, but it has always felt contrived to me. From the justification for November signing herself over to the Dollhouse, to Echo going back for seconds, so some fat internet guy can get his jollies off, I just cannot become sold on the rationalization, it seems. I guess I have a problem with the whole 'voluntary' thing to begin with. It's just unfathomable to think someone is really willingly signing him/herself over into slavery -- especially now that we have a black President. :) And it's a good thing you brought up Echo's options being limited, PhoenixRose, because there's two parts to having a choice: a free will, and having options to choose from. And that's where the rub has been for me all along: "Either go to jail for a very long time, or come whore for us for a spell." Threatening to impose a greater evil on you, just so you'll 'choose' the lesser evil, that's just common blackmail.


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Tuesday, May 12, 2009 3:56 AM

BYTEMITE


I think Dominic's concerns about Echo becoming Alpha were that the retention of her memories from engagements might eventually drive her to become violent, as Alpha did. The actual mechanism by which Alpha retained memories despite the wipe, the likelyhood that some of those memories might be violent ones, and that the people of the Dollhouse don't understand the process makes it something unpredictable and scary for the staff.

It didn't help any that they didn't see the connection between Alpha's past as a crazy slasher maniac and when he slashes Whiskey, being as they were unable to imagine that a doll could retain aspects of their old personality, so they could only assume it was the memories of his engagements that made him act that way.

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Tuesday, May 12, 2009 4:34 AM

CYBERSNARK


Right, and the one there who had the highest understanding of the tech (Topher) was the one who was least worried about Echo. He knew full well that what happened with Alpha was a one-time thing, which started with Alpha's unhealthy fixation on Whiskey (before he got near the Chair). Echo didn't have that kind of attachment.

If anything, Topher would've been more scared of the Victor/Sierra shipping (which casts his reactions a few eps ago [to Victor's man-reaction] in a slightly less-hilarious light).

The fact that Dominic was scared of Echo just means that he was a moron.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Tuesday, May 12, 2009 9:20 AM

ZEEK


Quote:

Originally posted by sab39:
Agreed about the composite event but I completely disagree that Echo not being unique/special is a letdown. It's actually one of the things I like a lot about Dollhouse as compared to some of Joss's prior shows.

Joss is known for his strong female characters but an alarming (to me) proportion of his female characters end up with what amount to superpowers of some sort (even in Firefly where just about all of them have an extraordinary talent that "just comes naturally" to them).

One thing I like about Echo and Ballard and Alpha is that neither the heroine nor the hero nor the villain really have superpowers or extraordinary talents. They're just ordinary people who are thrown into an extraordinary situation and do extraordinary things as a result.


She doesn't need to have a super power or anything but her thought process being special or unique is not that out of the ordinary. I mean all Alpha was obsessed with was her looks apparently. That's pretty boring IMO. It goes back to the composite event being lame because it wasn't something special in Alpha's brain that was also in Echo's it was just a process they could perform on any Doll.

Both were such a let down to me.

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Friday, May 29, 2009 3:53 PM

THESOMNAMBULIST


Quote:

Originally posted by Schism:
As much as I loved the ep, I'm still wondering why Alpha;

a) Ran away when he had the upper hand

b) Ran UP a building to escape

c) Threw away his main bargaining chip

d) Wasn't pursued by the others.


Oh, and am I grasping at FF references by pointing out Topher's "put them on the shelf beside our glass jars with fireflies" reference?



I know this is old now, but I have to agree with everything you've pointed out. It really made no sense... Also where exactly did Alpha go? Can he fly now too? Since when was climbing up a building the way out?

Overall this was not a good episode.

Roll on the new season though. :D




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