GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

The Anticipation Of Serenity

POSTED BY: PENGUINRTR
UPDATED: Thursday, February 24, 2005 08:11
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Monday, February 21, 2005 5:34 PM

PENGUINRTR


I don't know if anyone posted this already, but I just saw this today. On Boxofficemojo.com a poll was taken unto the most anticipated films of 2005. Serenity took 2nd right below you know what (which I don't care to watch, I haven't seen the first three yet anyways).



http://www.boxofficemojo.com/polls/?page=viewpoll&id=81&p=.htm

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Monday, February 21, 2005 5:47 PM

RAT


We mobilized and put it where it is today, behold the power of the browncoats!!!!

www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=8527

-Ratboy

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Monday, February 21, 2005 5:56 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


How awesome is that ? ( Although I kinda expected a bit higher %....)

26.2% Star Wars: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith
15.9% Serenity
9.5% Batman Begins
8.2% The War of the Worlds
8.0% Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire
5.7% King Kong


Higher than these..... War of the Worlds, which got Super Bowl commercial play, the Harry Potter juggernaut, and Peter Jackson's King Kong. Wow. Impressive.

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Monday, February 21, 2005 8:22 PM

THEDARKSHAPE


Remember all my yapping and complaining in the BOM thread that the poll was being rigged to topple Star Wars and it was unfair and yadda yadda yadda? Forget me. Star Wars will do fine on its own. I'm glad the fans are so dedicated to get word on this movie out there.

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Monday, February 21, 2005 8:46 PM

RAT


If they don't remember, I'l remind them!!!!!!!

-Ratboy

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Monday, February 21, 2005 9:04 PM

SIRARIS


If only we could get this out to more sites... get some more hype behind it.

I seriously think it would be in the movies best interest to have some sort of mention in the trailer: "Directed by the creator of Angel and Buffy"

I know it sounds cheesy, but let's be honest, people are fickle. There are so many Buffy and Angel fans out there who probably know nothing about Firefly, it would most likely attract a lot more people to it.

Just a suggestion for the sake of the movie. WE all know how good it will be, WE know how amazing Firefly really is, but other people will be skeptical.


And the more people who see it, the better for everyone :)

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Monday, February 21, 2005 9:09 PM

SHINY


Quote:

Originally posted by Siraris:
If only we could get this out to more sites... get some more hype behind it.

I seriously think it would be in the movies best interest to have some sort of mention in the trailer: "Directed by the creator of Angel and Buffy"

I know it sounds cheesy, but let's be honest, people are fickle. There are so many Buffy and Angel fans out there who probably know nothing about Firefly, it would most likely attract a lot more people to it.

Just a suggestion for the sake of the movie. WE all know how good it will be, WE know how amazing Firefly really is, but other people will be skeptical.



The downside to this is that a lot MORE people will ignorantly think "ah, more crappy teenie-bopper-goth-vampire-nonsense" and NOT see Firefly because of the association with Buffy and Angel. There are probably more of these types than there are Angel/Buffy fans who have never heard of Firefly...


Jayne, your mouth is talkin. Might want to look into that.

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Tuesday, February 22, 2005 1:22 AM

ZOID


Shiny wrote:
Quote:

The downside to this is that a lot MORE people will ignorantly think "ah, more crappy teenie-bopper-goth-vampire-nonsense" and NOT see Firefly because of the association with Buffy and Angel. There are probably more of these types than there are Angel/Buffy fans who have never heard of Firefly...

Agreed. Joss has grown beyond BtVS and Angel. Did anyone expect him not to mature? He now appeals to a more mature and discerning audience, while retaining his rabid core fanbase. Trying to sell FF with BtVS and AtS has always been the wrong tactic.

Still, I think the movie has a chance to do very well at theatres, without the Buffy/Angel pump. Original + TV = Death; Original + Movies = Success. People want something different and entertaining at the theatre; Serenity should give them their money's worth.


Respectfully,

zoid
_________________________________________________

"Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me." The Ballad of Serenity

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Tuesday, February 22, 2005 4:07 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.


Well said Zoid.

I have thought several times on how Joss has grown beyond where he started. Sure BtVS and Angel were great shows, and I will enjoy watching them occasionally, but Firefly was a glimpse of the future and the potential of Joss and the stories he will tell.

I hope that others will be able to look past Buffy & Angel to see the more mature vision of Serenity and fill the theatres. I for one look forward to the journeys Joss has in store for us.

__________________________________________

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

Richmond, VA & surrounding area Firefly Meet Up:
http://firefly.meetup.com/9/boards/


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Tuesday, February 22, 2005 6:35 AM

NAKEDANDARTICULATE


i have converted 4 people but the one i cherish the most is my best friend---after he watched the series(within 3 days) he said-"that show was amazing......why was it cancelled......i cant believe that it was made by the same guy who made buffy and angel"---alot of my friends dont get buffy and angel(hey,thats there problem--me,i get it)but those same people get firefly.it may sound weird but i say dont mention it in the trailer,the problem is shows like access hollywood,et,and the talk shows are gonna mention buffy---i can hear letterman right now--"uhhhh,our first guest is the creator of "buffy the vampire slayer"(audience snickers?) and was one of the writers of "toy story",his latest creation "serenity" opens in theatres this friday,please welcome--joss whedon"(thunderous applause!!!!)

"Hamsters is nice."

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Tuesday, February 22, 2005 9:16 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by zoid:
Shiny wrote:
Quote:

The downside to this is that a lot MORE people will ignorantly think "ah, more crappy teenie-bopper-goth-vampire-nonsense" and NOT see Firefly because of the association with Buffy and Angel. There are probably more of these types than there are Angel/Buffy fans who have never heard of Firefly...

Agreed. Joss has grown beyond BtVS and Angel. Did anyone expect him not to mature? He now appeals to a more mature and discerning audience, while retaining his rabid core fanbase. Trying to sell FF with BtVS and AtS has always been the wrong tactic.

Still, I think the movie has a chance to do very well at theatres, without the Buffy/Angel pump. Original + TV = Death; Original + Movies = Success. People want something different and entertaining at the theatre; Serenity should give them their money's worth.


Respectfully,

zoid
_________________________________________________

"Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me." The Ballad of Serenity



Yeah, what Zoid said!

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Tuesday, February 22, 2005 11:18 AM

JAA


I feel that your post is not entirely unbiased and somewhat, not to go all seven-year old on you here, but, unfair.

Joss has not grown beyond Angel or Buffy.
Without Angel or Buffy what would Firefly be? Zip, void. It would not exist. I will admit to Buffy being, stereotyping a bit here for all the seasons, somewhat immature. Angel, on the other hand is not immature. It is told differently than Firefly, agreed. But there is a much bigger point in comparing these shows than setting them apart. As far as I am concerned they are all great stories.

These shows are Joss' babies. He holds them all dear, equally. Angel and Buffy have matured and moved on, to a new apartment if you will. Firefly/Serenity is still in Joss' care. He will make this story great, just as he did with Angel and Buffy.

Finally I want to point to existencialism, and just say that all these series exist, undeniably. That is all they do. And I choose to believe that then they are all equally great. None above, none better. Equal.

Sincerly can't wait till the Big Damn Movie's released.

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Tuesday, February 22, 2005 12:14 PM

ZOID


JAA:

I didn't mean to seem unbiased. I am. I never cared for BtVS or AtS. I do deeply care for Firefly. That's a personal statement of taste. You have every right to differ; but it doesn't change my opinion of Joss' previous work.

In my opinion, Joss has gotten better as a storyteller. That is not an unexpected evolution, given the innate talent he inarguably possesses, embodied in the nascent genius in his previous works.

Being somewhat in touch with the artistic spirit myself, allow me to spin you a little analogy in order to better illuminate my previous commentary...

Teenage boy sits in bedroom, learning to play guitar by listening to and emulating music on his radio. It happens that he has a natural gift for his chosen instrument. Eventually, he joins a garage band, composed of his schoolmates. They play birthday parties and perhaps even a school dance or two, featuring covers of popular music.

The band members graduate from high school. Everyone except for the guitarist goes on to college or the 'real world' of survival in the workplace. But the guitarist is cemented to his art, and pursues it as a career. He finds other likeminded musicians, they form a new band and turn 'pro'. They start gigging at local clubs.

Suddenly, the guitarist -- who was the 'local rock god' in high school -- is faced with much stiffer competition, in order to successfully appeal to a more sophisticated audience. As a result of this stimulus, he gets better, more proficient with his instrument. As the years go by, he spends more and more time, attention and energy perfecting his craft.

Even though he had all the talent in the world, while sitting in his bedroom (driving his parents nuts, btw), it took years of practice, struggle and application to fully mature into a great guitarist.

The same is true for any artist, in any medium. Regardless how talented from the outset an artist may be, the keys to mastery of one's chosen art form are time, practice and application. (NB: Artistic types get loads of pain and deprivation in their lives naturally, to properly season their creations.)

As a result, a true artist gets better with time. This is not to say that the artist is ashamed of the process that leads from garage to concert stage (or from writer on 'Buffy the Movie' to director of 'Serenity'). The progression is integral to the performer the artist becomes. But that 'becoming' is always the goal just out of arm's reach, until the day the artist dies (or becomes an executive programming director for F*x TV, which ever occurs first).

In summation, Joss has matured into a master storyteller. I expect he will continue to grow and explore his medium, and that we will be the beneficiaries of his growth as an artist.


Respectfully,

zoid

P.S.
Sometimes an artist 'loses his instrument' by becoming too engrossed with the accolades he receives and the trappings of success. Think Elvis or George Lucas and iterate ad infinitum... And yet fanatics will continue to slavishly praise them, strictly because of their status as pop icons. The work is what's important. Hopefully, when Joss decides to venture into new territories, we'll enjoy that new work because of its own merits, not Firefly's or any of his previous creations.

P.P.S.
Y'all know Ronnie Van Zant flew that plane into the swamp 'cause he just couldn't bear to hear a crowd scream, "Freebird!" one more time. Sorry, Ronnie; just joshin'.
_________________________________________________

"Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me." The Ballad of Serenity

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Tuesday, February 22, 2005 2:23 PM

NWUKSTEVE


My (drunken having just got back from the pub) thoughts...

I'm a huge fan of both Buffy and Angel (B/A), and agree that Firefly would appeal to many fans of those shows. However, there are also many people out there who pre-judge B/A (there's a reason why they never did anything at the Emmys (sp?), and that reason is NOT because they didn't deserve to). So I think the best bet for Serenity is not to mention B/A. There may be a few B/A fans who don't know about Firefly, but there are far more people who might be put off if they did know the connection.

---
"Suppose we've chosen the wrong god. Every time we go to church we're just making him madder and madder." - Homer Simpson

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Tuesday, February 22, 2005 6:25 PM

SMURFETTE


I think everyone's opinion has been valid. The buffy/angel association may not be so terrible. I would never gotten into firefly, had I not known that it had been created by Joss. I fell in love with Buffy and Angel, and when I finally saw firefly was being screened on TV here (I'm in New Zealand) I actually made an effort to see it because of my prior admiration of Joss. I can say with honesty that because of the crappy time it is on, and the little exposure it gets, I would'nt have bothered if I had'nt known that it was created by the same creator as Buffy. There probably isn't a need to state "from the creator of Buffy" because real Joss fans would have made the leap to watching firefly anyway. For the more fickle, I am still divided. My friends (who watch Buffy and a lot of mainstream TV) would be far more likely to go watch serenity if they knew it was directed by the same guy who made Buffy.

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Tuesday, February 22, 2005 7:55 PM

THEDARKSHAPE


Quote:

Think Elvis or George Lucas and iterate ad infinitum...


So you're saying that certain people, like myself, or so devoid of personal taste that we'll only enjoy a film because of the name under the "Directed by" credit?

Boy. I really should love Return of the Jedi then, since 90% of that was a Lucas flick.

Now, ahem, back on topic. Go Serenity

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Tuesday, February 22, 2005 8:11 PM

RAT


Looks like I don't have to remind them!!

-Ratboy

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Tuesday, February 22, 2005 10:45 PM

JAA


I respect your POV. Chronologically Joss has evolved from Joss of then to Joss of now. Subsequently his writing has changed, evolved. Is it subsequently better? That we cannot say, because it cannot be, singularly, unanimously, defined.

The important thing that we agree on is that the writer Joss is today he is because of all his work.

Should Serenity be presented as "Directed by the creator of Angel and Buffy"? No. The reasons have been stated before. I also think that Serenity should stand on it's own feet, and I believe that it will.

Sincerly can't wait till the Big Damn Movie's released.

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Wednesday, February 23, 2005 6:11 AM

ZOID


TheDarkShape wrote:
Quote:

So you're saying that certain people, like myself, or so devoid of personal taste that we'll only enjoy a film because of the name under the "Directed by" credit?

Boy. I really should love Return of the Jedi then, since 90% of that was a Lucas flick.

Now, ahem, back on topic. Go Serenity


While this appears to be a rhetorical question, I'd still like to respond. My statement about artists who've lost their instrument because -- in their mind -- they've transcended their art, while forgetting that it was dedication to their art that brought them to public prominence, was not intended as an insult to their fanatical followers, per se. Every fan (short for 'fanatic') follows promising artists to some degree. Past success is a promise of future artistic growth and excellence.

But if the artist goes to such extremes of ego, they deserve to be cut loose from fan support. In fact, it is our duty as fans to cut them loose -- to give them a needed wakeup call, and to give our support to other more deserving artists. But where is the dividing line? One half-hearted movie or album of music? Two?

Furthermore, if our favorite artist(e) becomes formulaic or hackneyed, should this change our opinion of the artist's entire body of work, even the past brilliance? Those questions (and at least twenty subsequent questions they beg) are rhetorical. Each person will answer them for her/himself, and the answers will vary.

The artist must take chances, in order to grow and not become sedentary. Failures -- or less than resounding results, anyway -- are to be expected when taking risks. I wouldn't withdraw my support because an artist wasn't 'as brilliant' at a risky venture; but I would if they were playing safe, and using a commercial formula to bilk fans out of their emotional and monetary support, trading strictly on name recognition.

Every artist (with very few exceptions) reaches a human limit. Writers get exhausted of fresh new ideas. Singers get old and wear out their voices. Actors age and have trouble finding expansive middle- or late-age roles; or otherwise reach their limit to lie convincingly; or are type-cast to the extent that they are unbelievable in other vehicles. But I believe we can tell the difference between 'trying' and 'phoning it in'; we can tell the difference between dedication and resting on one's laurels.

As a final note, I believe Joss Whedon's potential as a storyteller is only limited by his physical boundaries: the time and mental energy required to create new stories. It may be that his emotional investment in his characters is not only what makes them so immediate and believable, but also becomes the limiting factor in how many new worlds he can create to such a high degree of fidelity. But I'm betting on Joss -- investing my fanatical support in him -- to a degree I haven't done since "Return of the Jedi", which you deprecatingly mentioned. Lucas has betrayed his followers since then, by over-commercialization of his movie properties and by using the actual movies as little more than test beds for ILM, which is his true going concern, in my opinion. I sincerely hope JW remains true to his art, throughout his career, and provides us with ever more enchanting stories and characters. He owes us his best efforts, as the price of the prodigious artistic gift he has been endowed with. That is the focus every master artist must maintain, else lose their instrument...


Respectfully,

zoid

P.S.
I will be seeing SW EpIII: The Sudden But Inevitable Betrayal, when it comes out in theatres, like most of the other humans on the planet. I can only hope that Lucas has turned from the dark path of formulaic commercialism he has chosen to walk throughout these prequels and returned to artistry, even while the entire universe he has created is cast into darkness in its conclusion. It's a slim hope, granted; but while we live there is the hope of redemption. That's the message of the first three movies, is it not? Here's hoping Lucas' alterego is Vader, not the Emperor...
_________________________________________________

"Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me." The Ballad of Serenity

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Wednesday, February 23, 2005 6:43 AM

ZOID


A quick example of one facet of 'formulaic commercialism', for clarification:

Acceptable:
Toymaker: "Mr. Lucas, we've seen your movie and it gives us an idea for a line of toys."

Unacceptable:
LucasArts Toy Division Marketing Manager: "Mr. Lucas, my Master, we've come up with a toy character concept that resembles a cross between a pet iguana and an adorable beagle puppy. Would it be possible to fit such a character into the next movie?"


v/r,
-zed

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Thursday, February 24, 2005 8:11 AM

CRZYDEMONA


A close friend of mine worked on Episode III. ... I'm thinking that people shouldn't be so eager to see it.

::shudders::

I yearn for the days of Empire Strikes Back!!

Jennifer

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