GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

BSG: Newbie Needs Some Help

POSTED BY: FIFINELLA
UPDATED: Tuesday, February 8, 2005 07:48
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VIEWED: 4075
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Saturday, February 5, 2005 8:14 AM

FIFINELLA


I've been watching the new Battlestar Galactica on SF. I've never seen the original or the miniseries and I missed the first couple of eps this season. So here are a couple of things I need explained:

1) What is Caprica? Where is it in relation to the fleet? Who are the people stuck there, and how did they get stuck without anyone knowing?

2) What is the deal with the doctor and the blond woman? Is she real? A Cylon? Why can't anyone else see her and how did she get there?

If someone could get me clued in, that would be great. I've enjoyed most of it, but I'm tired of trying to piece together what I've missed.

thanks.

Fifinella


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Saturday, February 5, 2005 8:30 AM

KURUKAMI


1) What is Caprica? Where is it in relation to the fleet? Who are the people stuck there, and how did they get stuck without anyone knowing?

Caprica is one of the twelve colonies that the Cylons attacked, and basically wiped out with multiple high-yield nuclear strikes.

In the mini-series, after the attack, Boomer and Helo were flying recon overwatch for a squadron of Vipers that got wiped out by Cylons. They ran, got clipped by a missile, and had to put down on Caprica for repairs. While there, they picked up a small number of refugees. Helo gave up his seat on Boomer's Raptor to allow Gaius Baltar to survive.

Boomer returned to Galactica. However, at the end of the mini-series, it was revealed that Boomer's a Cylon model, and that there are many of her. One of the Boomers, the one we first met in the mini-series, is on Galactica; another has been placed with Helo on Caprica. The Cylons have some unusual plan thing going which has to do with a human falling in love with a Cylon-human and having children together, which hasn't really been explained yet. That's what I'm guessing, anyways, from seeing Six's comments to Baltar.

2) What is the deal with the doctor and the blond woman? Is she real? A Cylon? Why can't anyone else see her and how did she get there?

The blond woman is Six, who Baltar knew back on Caprica before the Cylon attack. She manipulated his government and social connections to get access to the Colonies' defense mainframe and his navigation program, which allowed the Cylons to launch their massive strike. Additionally, it allowed the Cylons to use electronic warfare to disable any ship utilizing Baltar's navigation program. Anyways, she revealed to him that she was a Cylon model shortly before the attack.

After that point, he started having... visions. Hallucinations. Of her. There's some debate as to whether her presence with him is due to an implant, a religious experience, or simply his brilliant mind starting to crack up under the pressure. :)

Other places, though, like on Caprica, she's definitely real.

I hope that helps.

"Sir, I would like to gingerly point out that it is difficult for someone to be gently reassuring when they're holding three and a half feet of sharpened steel."

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Saturday, February 5, 2005 8:38 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

However, at the end of the mini-series, it was revealed that Boomer's a Cylon model, and that there are many of her.


Not to complicate things any,but it seems I'm a bit slow here...do we know that the Boomer on Caprica isn't the real Boomer, and all others are just copies of the original? Better still....IS there a real human Boomer ? Is/ was she a member of the Galactica , and IF so, where is she ?

- OR - ..did a real, human Boomer NEVER exist, and the thing that became a Galactica pilot was nothing but a cyclon all along?

Hope I made that clear w/ out being too redundAnt.

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Saturday, February 5, 2005 8:41 AM

FINN MAC CUMHAL


Quote:

Originally posted by Fifinella:
1) What is Caprica? Where is it in relation to the fleet? Who are the people stuck there, and how did they get stuck without anyone knowing?

2) What is the deal with the doctor and the blond woman? Is she real? A Cylon? Why can't anyone else see her and how did she get there?

If someone could get me clued in, that would be great. I've enjoyed most of it, but I'm tired of trying to piece together what I've missed.

1) A: Caprica is the name of the human home world which was invaded, conquered and is now occupied by Cylons. The fleet is the last remnant of refugees from Caprica.

I don’t know who the people are who are stuck there or how they got stuck there, though I imagine they just missed the boat when the refugees fled the Cylon invasion.

2) A: No clue. I was never actually able to finish watching the miniseries.

In the memorable words of Lorne Greene (the first Commander Adama):
“Fleeing the Cylon tyranny, the last battlestar, Galactia, leads a rag-tag fugitive fleet on a lonely quest. A shining planet, known as... Earth.”

ADD: I can see others have been more helpful then me. So yeah, they're probably right.

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Saturday, February 5, 2005 8:44 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

In the memorable words of Lorne Greene (the first Commander Adama):
“Fleeing the Cylon tyranny, the last battlestar, Galactia, leads a rag-tag fugitive fleet on a lonely quest. A shining planet, known as... Earth.”



Which many years later, would be referred to as 'Earth that was.'

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Saturday, February 5, 2005 9:00 AM

FINN MAC CUMHAL


Just an aside on last night’s episode: I was a big fan of the original Starbuck played by Dirk Benedict, so I’ve really had a problem with this recasting of Starbuck as a woman, until this last episode where she crashed onto a planet with a Cylon raider. Those of you who remember the original will recognize right away that this is a retelling (in part) of the story in which Starbuck (the first) crashed onto a planet with a Cylon and ultimately befriended the Cylon out of a need for survival. For those of you who don’t remember the original BSG, you should see the similarity now if you’ve see this last episode.

I have to admit I really bonded with the new Starbuck in this episode. Seeing this familiar story retold with so much more passion and I might add realism, put this new Starbuck in almost a side-by-side comparison with the old Starbuck, and much to my surprise, except for the issue of gender, they are the same Starbuck that we all know and love.

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Saturday, February 5, 2005 10:43 AM

GREENFAERIE


If you want to catch up on missed episodes, SciFi is re-airing ALL of them on this coming Teusday (Feb. 8th)!

If you REALLY want to catch up, I suggest buying the miniseries DVD. It's worth every penny for the three-hour intro to this great series, and will answer many of your questions! It's available on amazon.com - that's where I got it, and I'm so happy to have it. Hmm, I think it's time to watch it again...

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Saturday, February 5, 2005 11:05 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by GreenFaerie:
If you REALLY want to catch up, I suggest buying the miniseries DVD. It's worth every penny for the three-hour intro to this great series, and will answer many of your questions! It's available on amazon.com - that's where I got it, and I'm so happy to have it. Hmm, I think it's time to watch it again...



Help me, I'm stuck in Stupidville. I just searched Amazon as you suggested on Battle Star Galactica, and just Galactica and all I find is:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00064AFBE/qid=110763648
5/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/103-2369942-3588629?v=glance&s=dvd


which says it's the 2003 "pilot" for the proposed series - not a miniseries. But maybe that's exactly what you're talking about.... dunno, whaa.

I'd like to be king of all Londinum and wear a shiny hat.

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Saturday, February 5, 2005 11:08 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...


Oh yeah, I had a full day pass to Stupidville... I just read the BOLD top description from the link I provided, the one that says, "MINI SERIES" - so NEVERMIND! I got it!

I'd like to be king of all Londinum and wear a shiny hat.

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Saturday, February 5, 2005 12:36 PM

HARDWARE


Quote:


Quote:


However, at the end of the mini-series, it was revealed that Boomer's a Cylon model, and that there are many of her.




Not to complicate things any,but it seems I'm a bit slow here...do we know that the Boomer on Caprica isn't the real Boomer, and all others are just copies of the original? Better still....IS there a real human Boomer ? Is/ was she a member of the Galactica , and IF so, where is she ?

- OR - ..did a real, human Boomer NEVER exist, and the thing that became a Galactica pilot was nothing but a cyclon all along?

Hope I made that clear w/ out being too redundAnt.



That's one of the great things about this incarnation of BSG, nobody's explaining these things. We viewers are left with a lot of maybes. Anyhow, if you see a Boomer (character's named Sharon Valerie, actress Grace Park) you can assume she's a cylon. Trouble is, the human looking cylons may not even know they are a cylon themselves. They could be sleeper agents totally unaware they are cylons until they are activated to execute missions.

The unconfirmed intimation is that there never was a human woman named Sharon Valerie, there was just the cylon.

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

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Saturday, February 5, 2005 12:56 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


I think that the idea of not knowing IF there's a real Boomer and whether she's on Caprica or not is a great twist to the story.

As for Starbuck, i wasn't thrilled at the concept of changing that character to a female. However, she's doing a great job, I can't help but like her now. Good stuff.

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Sunday, February 6, 2005 10:55 AM

MICHIZURE


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
A shining planet, known as... Earth.”

Which many years later, would be referred to as 'Earth that was.'



Anyone else notice that the original BSG had the same problems with STL/single system vs. FTL/multiple systems that we go 'round about here? Maybe the Twelve Colonies and the core worlds occupy the same system, just in different alternate universes.

--------
http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/traveller/fartrader
Far Trader: the handbook for interstellar merchants.

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Sunday, February 6, 2005 4:02 PM

MRGOSH


I've only seen the first three episodes, and none of the miniseries, so this thread actually cleared up a lot for me. I'm curious though, for those who have seen the original series from the 70s, is this new series just the same story with updated special effects and stuff, or is there a whole new story? From Finn's post up there it sounds like at least one of the episodes might be a copy of one of the old episodes, or am I misunderstanderating the situation...
Anyway, the show looks sweet either way, I'm just curious.

I'm Dancin' like a Monkey!
-Gir, Invader Zim

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Sunday, February 6, 2005 5:34 PM

MICHIZURE


Quote:

Originally posted by MrGosh:
is this new series just the same story with updated special effects and stuff, or is there a whole new story?


Basically the same story, but redone almost from scratch. It appears that the writers are neither afraid to borrow from the original, nor to improve upon it as necessary. Besides the overall premise, not only was the "Starbuck is missing" plot taken and updated, but the prison barge uprising also occurred (albeit differently) in the original.

Think about how many different versions of Robin Hood or Dracula there have been over the years: same thing.

--------
http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/traveller/fartrader
Far Trader: the handbook for interstellar merchants.

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Sunday, February 6, 2005 6:09 PM

FINN MAC CUMHAL


Quote:

Originally posted by Michizure:
Anyone else notice that the original BSG had the same problems with STL/single system vs. FTL/multiple systems that we go 'round about here? Maybe the Twelve Colonies and the core worlds occupy the same system, just in different alternate universes.

Sort of, but you can’t really over analyze the original too much. They did actually have, at least what they referred to as “light speed.” (Which taken literally may be even more intangible then ‘faster-then-light’ speed.) But the original sort of held to that 70’s science mentality that today makes it seem somewhat oversimple.

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Monday, February 7, 2005 12:06 AM

BRITCHICK


Quote:

Originally posted by MrGosh:
is this new series just the same story with updated special effects and stuff, or is there a whole new story?



The premise is the same: Humans created cylons to be slaves, the cylons rebelled and wiped out the twelve colonies (each named after one of the signs of the zodiac). The survivors fled in whatever ships they can and are searching for this mythical thirteenth colony called "Earth". Many of the character names are repeated, with broadly the same role (eg Commander Adama, Starbuck, Apollo etc), but actually that's about where the similarity ends.

The 70's show contained individual sel-contained episodes which had a bit to do with running from the cylons but dealt with other subjects, and each episide had the mandatory happy ending. Starbuck was always chasing girls, Apollo was always a good son and the steady one etc. The characters were pretty shallowly drawn, and they behaved true-to-character in each episode with little character development. The show was nice enough, and fulfilled its role as fluffy tea-time family fare (along with the Dukes of Hazzard, The A Team, and countless others).

In the new series, each episode follows on from the other and the stories are all about the flight from the cylons with a few other bits thrown in. We have ups and downs, issues such as water shortages, food shortages, fighter pilots actually dying. The characters are very deep, and the interrelationships are developing as we move on. The dynamic between Adama and Lee, Stabuck, Adama, and Lee... Adama and the President... The whole feel is darker and more interesting; the fact that Cylons look like humans and may not even know they are cylons; the relationship between the human/cylons and the humans is very interesting; the struggle to maintain democracy....

There are some neat touches which are nice nod/homage to the original series, such as the use of "frack" as a swear word. I also liked that the original Apollo joins the series as a bit of a potential "baddie".

Personally, I love the fact that Starbuck is a girl. I was absolutely shocked, and a little outraged, when she came on screen. BUt then I thought it was a really great way to make people realise that this isn't just a rehash. And I love the fact that she is smoking the cigars, playing poker, gets into fights, and is such a tomboy (sorry, I know that doesn't quite bring the righr picture to mind, I just can't find a better descriptive word)

I found each episode of the new series was a "must see", whereas the 70s show was a bit of amusing fluff.

The final episode... well, I don't want to leave any spoilers. There was a real buzz of "What?! Did that just happen? What does that mean? They CAN'T just leave it there..."

Sorry if I am offending any fans of the original. I don't mean to, as I liked it well enough at the time, and I do know that the special effects etc were somewhat groundbreaking for a TV series. It's just that it was a product of its time. I would watch it now for its nostalgia value.





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Monday, February 7, 2005 4:29 AM

RAINEY


I bought the 1979 series DVD boxset in the Christmas sales, and had great fun watching, but found that it really doesn't help much when watching the new series. It was great for nostalgia purposes, but not for trying to understand what's happening in the current incarnation.

In fact I got quite frustrated with it all - there are some similarities that others have pointed out here, but in terms of plot - there are also many differences, and I tried for a while to marry up the two series... it just wasn't possible.

It's good to see Richard Hatch making appearances in the new series though. For those who didn't see the original Richard Hatch played Apollo, and now guest stars as Tom Zarek - one of the prisoners on the prison ship.

Oh, and I must echo Britchick's comments on the last ep of the series. I couldn't believe what I saw... Amazing stuff!

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Monday, February 7, 2005 5:15 AM

CYBERSNARK


Quote:

Originally posted by britchick:
The premise is the same: Humans created cylons to be slaves, the cylons rebelled

Actually, that part was new.

In the original series, the Cylon robots were created by a reptilian race --the "true" Cylons. Eventually, the true Cylons died out and the robots took over.

The "Imperious Leader" in the original series was the last surviving true Cylon. When he died, Baltar took his place, leading to speculation as to just how well the "Cylons" would survive without an organic consciousness at their head.

"By your command." --assorted Cylons.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Monday, February 7, 2005 7:02 AM

ZOID



Fifinella and Fellow Browncoats:

A few highly random thoughts that have been nibbling at my consciousness...

Random thought #1: I love the new BSG. It helps that it is so reminiscent of Firefly, from the writing and SFX standpoints (natural enough since it boasts Zoic and a number of ex-Firefly/ME directors and writers). It has a nice 'big picture' story arc, also reminiscent of FF. It is also clearly high-quality entertainment, for a television series (not quite up to the standard of Firefly, but close enough for me).

Random thought #2: The placement of BSG alongside the 2 Stargate series on SciFi Fridays only serves to illustrate the inferiority of the SG franchise. It's like, "Okay, here's Stargate -- twice -- and then we're gonna prove to you what incredible dreck those are by finishing up with actual science-fiction entertainment." I had hoped that SciFi were upgrading SG this season, for this juxtaposition with BSG. Nope. It still lacks any redeeming values in story, dialogue or characterization, and so does the new SG: Atlantis. They're painful to watch.

Random thought #3: When I see how strong, well-acted, well-written and expensively-produced BSG is, it makes me furious that Firefly is not still on the air, somewhere. If not on F*x (may they collectively burn in a special Hell, particularly Gail Berman), then why not on some other thinking network; and why not SciFi? I figure their Friday night lineup should be Farscape, Firefly and Battlestar Galactica, in that order. Flush the SG 'franchise'. It is entirely possible that SciFi could thus do what no other network has been able to accomplish: Monopolize Friday primetime.

There has long been the argument that Friday's are party nights, and that no one is home to watch TV. Okay. As one who once made his living as a lead singer/shaman/party master, I would argue that all the beautiful people don't even show up until the witching hour (midnight), and that Saturdays are the preferred party evenings anyway. Fridays are what I used to call 'Amateur Night'. All the working stiffs TGIF'ing, getting blasted out of their gourds by 7 PM and -- unless they've drunk so much that they've totally lost their wits -- gone home by 9 or 10 at the latest. The problem with Fridays is that some of those 'weekend warriors' will stick around, staggeringly, after the real party has begun, and insist on puking and then bleeding profusely on the furnishings.

Ummm, so I ain't necessarily buying the argument that Friday's are a throwaway, from a ratings and advertising standpoint. It's just that there's nothing good to watch on Fridays, because the nets won't air anything good on Fridays. But once my 'dream lineup' got its legs, you could always uproot it intact and repot it on Sundays or Mondays, if it failed to perform optimally...


Randomly,

zoid

P.S.
I apologize for being so brutal on SG/SG:A fans; but I don't apologize for calling it dreck. Just watch BSG, for poignant evidence for my position. It's obvious: On the one hand 'very good', on the other 'very bad'.

P.P.S.
Does BSG remind anyone else of a sci-fi version of NYPD Blue? (That's a compliment, BTW.) I just hope they don't feel the need to end every season with a 'cliffhanger'. Isn't that device a little overused by this point? A good show doesn't need to 'tease' its audience to get them to come back for the next season; each season should stand alone. (Note to JW: The same is true for movie series. How annoying was that "To be concluded" in the Matrix series? Make one movie, or make three (or 17) movies that stand individually within the same universe.)
_________________________________________________

"Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me." The Ballad of Serenity

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Monday, February 7, 2005 7:15 AM

GREENFAERIE


Quote:

... How annoying was that "To be concluded" in the Matrix series? Make one movie, or make three (or 17) movies that stand individually within the same universe


I second that. I remember the first real cliffhanger movie I ever saw was The Empire Strikes Back... that made me so pissed off; "What, I have to wait two years to find out what happens... and did Ben lie to Luke? Is Darth really Luke's father?!!!"


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Monday, February 7, 2005 4:34 PM

THEWILDCARD


Quote:

Originally posted by Kurukami:

Other places, though, like on Caprica, she's definitely real.




Judging by the effect that clyon #6 has on Baltar during his "visions", she might as well be real, lol.


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Monday, February 7, 2005 4:36 PM

BRITCHICK


Quote:

Originally posted by Cybersnark:
Quote:

Originally posted by britchick:
The premise is the same: Humans created cylons to be slaves, the cylons rebelled

Actually, that part was new.

In the original series, the Cylon robots were created by a reptilian race --the "true" Cylons. Eventually, the true Cylons died out and the robots took over.



I stand corrected. Thanks for letting me know

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Tuesday, February 8, 2005 7:48 AM

ZOID


Fellow Browncoats:

Y'know, I was replying on another thread, regarding 'sleepers' and I quoted from Bladerunner. Suddenly, it occurred to me that the replicant theme of that movie very closely parallels the sleeper Cylons in BSG. To wit:
Quote:

Deckard: She's a replicant, isn't she?
Tyrell: I'm impressed. How many questions does it usually take to spot them?
Deckard: I don't get it Tyrell.
Tyrell: How many questions?
Deckard: Twenty, thirty, cross-referenced.
Tyrell: It took more than a hundred for Rachel, didn't it?
Deckard: She doesn't know.
Tyrell: She's beginning to suspect, I think.
Deckard: Suspect? How can it not know what it is?


See also: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/825641.stm

You could certainly do a lot worse than borrowing from Ridley Scott (the theme was not part of "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?"), especially since he never answered the question in the movie. Exploring this aspect in detail is a definite attraction for BSG.

Replay of all first five episodes begins tonight at 5PM CST on SciFi. Be there.


Associatively,

zoid

P.S.
Joss: If you're listening, read that link and don't let anybody mess with your movie. Scott's got the right notion, and learning from a great filmmaker's previous disappointments and resulting insights may prove valuable.

_________________________________________________

"You know that Voigt-Kampff test of yours? Did you ever take that test yourself? Deckard?"

(Deckard falls asleep while Rachael lets her hair down and plays the piano.) Bladerunner

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