GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

(Extra) thrilling heroics...

POSTED BY: HAWK
UPDATED: Tuesday, November 9, 2004 10:56
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Saturday, November 6, 2004 12:39 PM

HAWK


Two things the series seem to avoid:

From the western quarter:
"Trick shots". Things like Sergio Leone's No-Name winning three-men-on-one-man shootouts, almost preternatural marksmanship etc.

From the sci-fi quarter:
"Flo-mo". Of course the full-on Keanu-limbo deal would not suit Firefly in any way, but would the BDH's combat styles benefit from some slightly over the top fighting?

I'm undecided on whether these are better off out of it or not. Firefly does take a realist stance though... What is the general consensus on ANY kind of staple of modern action making it in to the BDM (assuming it does not infringe on character development in any way)?


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Saturday, November 6, 2004 1:04 PM

EMBERS


I'm kindda hoping River's gonna kill somebody with her brain....

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Saturday, November 6, 2004 1:09 PM

ZOID


Hawk:

I'm betting that both the Inara's (old and young) kick Reaver azz like Trinity. Should look pretty similar to one another doing it, too, since they both have the same stunt woman (Karin Silvestri, former champion gymnast).


Perfectly,

zoid

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Saturday, November 6, 2004 1:12 PM

HAWK


Both the Inaras?

As in more than one?

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Saturday, November 6, 2004 4:46 PM

SHANYU


Quote:

Originally posted by Hawk:
Both the Inaras?

As in more than one?



Both as in trinity and inara have same stunt double(correct me if im wrong zoid)

"You can live with a man for fourty years , share his meals, talk on every subject, then tie him up, and hold him over the volanoes edge. And on that day, you will finally meet the man"

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Sunday, November 7, 2004 1:31 PM

ZOID


Shan Yu and Hawk:

Both Inaras. Go to IMDB for Serenity ( http://imdb.com/title/tt0379786/fullcredits ) and look in the Stunts section. Morena Baccarin shares a stunt double (Karin Silvestri) with another actress who doesn't even appear in the credits, although she's an Oscar-nominated actress from last year's "House of Sand and Fog".

Oscar-nominated actress? No character listed in credits? Shares stunt double with Morena?

You do the math. I think I've figured out what's in Inara's syringe.


Conspiratorially,

zoid

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Sunday, November 7, 2004 7:38 PM

AMANDA4U


Ohh, that could mean any number of things! She could be playing Inara's mother or house mistress or sister even. Okay, Morena's stunt double, one that has to look very similar to her, is the same stunt double to "mystery lady", so we know that "mystery lady" will be in action sequences, and she might look extraordinarily like Morena in the movie. What could it mean? You must explain yourself!

P.S. Three questions: Why would Kaylee need a stunt double, who in the world is Mr. Universe, and what in the world is the Fruity Oaty Bars segment, which involves animation?

Six Gurtslers crammed under every cooling
drive, so that you strain your primary
artery function, and you end up having to
recycle secondary exhaust through a bypass
system, just so's you don't end up pumping
it though the main atmo feed and asphyxiating
the entire crew! Now that's junk. - Kaylee

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Monday, November 8, 2004 4:43 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.


Quote:

Originally posted by Hawk:
Two things the series seem to avoid:

From the western quarter:
"Trick shots". Things like Sergio Leone's No-Name winning three-men-on-one-man shootouts, almost preternatural marksmanship etc.

From the sci-fi quarter:
"Flo-mo". Of course the full-on Keanu-limbo deal would not suit Firefly in any way, but would the BDH's combat styles benefit from some slightly over the top fighting?

I'm undecided on whether these are better off out of it or not. Firefly does take a realist stance though... What is the general consensus on ANY kind of staple of modern action making it in to the BDM (assuming it does not infringe on character development in any way)?




I am glad that Joss does not feel the need to go all Matrix w/ Firefly or Serenity. His stance has always been to make the show as realistic as he could and to keep stunts in the realm of human capabilities. This is one of the things I have always loved about Firefly, is the realism (if one can call sci fi realistic) of the show and what our BDHs do on the program.

I think that going all Hollywood w/ huge explosions, anime style fight scenes and lots of T & A would only cheapen Serenity and make it far less enjoyable.

__________________________________________

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

Richmond, VA & surrounding area Firefly Meet Up:
http://firefly.meetup.com/9/boards/


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Monday, November 8, 2004 5:21 AM

THALOS


Quote:

Originally posted by Hawk:
Two things the series seem to avoid:

From the western quarter:
"Trick shots". Things like Sergio Leone's No-Name winning three-men-on-one-man shootouts, almost preternatural marksmanship etc.




I think that Serenity/Firefly did use "trick shots" to use your lingo.

In the premiere episode of Firefly, Mal/Zoe/Jayne are outnumbered 9 to 3 (see 3:1) aganist Patience and they win with accurate gun fighting. Also, at a brisk pace from 20 yards Malcolm is able to use preternatural marksmanship to kill Dobson, while he has River as a human shield.

Seems to me Joss does use the technique you mention, I think what makes it a bit more believable is that our heros usually take almost as much damage as they deal out. Zoe would have been dead without body army, etc.

Also, one of the themes of the show is that the crew of Serenity is fighting against the odds and so they are always going to need a little luck/skill/fortune/guts to survive.

"Whoa, good Bible."

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Monday, November 8, 2004 5:21 AM

THALOS


Rutt'in double posts.

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Monday, November 8, 2004 5:21 AM

THALOS


Rutt'in triple post.

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Monday, November 8, 2004 5:21 AM

THALOS


Rutt'in quadruple post.

(What is going on with my computer???)

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Monday, November 8, 2004 5:47 AM

PURPLEBELLY


Quote:

Originally posted by Amanda4u:
What could it mean? You must explain yourself!

You've asked for it now. Get that scroll button ready Good hijack, Zoid
BTW I've always admired Morena's athleticism in those improbably tight clothes;
you'll have to ask the customiere if there's any wirework

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Monday, November 8, 2004 6:36 AM

ZOID


Amanda4u wrote:
Quote:

...She could be playing Inara's mother or house mistress or sister even. Okay, Morena's stunt double, one that has to look very similar to her, is the same stunt double to "mystery lady", so we know that "mystery lady" will be in action sequences, and she might look extraordinarily like Morena in the movie...

At the end of that paragraph, you did seem to be getting a sense of the disparity I felt when I saw the IMDB listing. I feel that incongruity is the biggest clue to the 'mystery woman'.

Okay, to begin with, the 'mystery woman' is Shoreh Aghdashloo, who is not only an Oscar nominee from just last year, but also bears a striking resemblance to Inara, if she were 30 years older (in fact, Morena should be so lucky to be that gorgeous in her mid-fifties).

Like you said, Shoreh could be playing Inara's mum, or house mistress or sister. Others have suggested she could be playing the cleaning woman (the Shadout Mable) or the President of the Alliance or anything else. Just because Ms. Aghdashloo and Morena share a stunt woman who was once an NCAA champion gymnast doesn't mean anything, except that Shoreh and Morena have similar hair and skin tones and height.

And I would agree with them, except for one niggling suspicion that won't be easily dispelled: Why doesn't Shoreh have a cast listing? If she's Inara's mommy, why would you leave a noted and distinguished actor unlisted from your credits, instead of simply including 'Shoreh Agdashloo = Azeera Serra'? Would finding out -- before the movie -- that Inara has a biological parent be a big spoiler? FAN: "Oh, my God(dess)! Inara has a mother! What could it all mean?!"

Iterate that logic through all the other speculated roles, and consider if a listing in the Cast section would be any more spoilng than 'Chiwetel Ejiofor = The Operative' (which is very suggestive, don't you think?) or 'David Krumholz = Mr. Universe' (apparently he's a freelance digital information agent, or 'cracker' as they're known today). I don't think any of those combinations of 'Shoreh =' are spoiling (i.e., 'Shoreh = President', 'Shoreh = House Priestess').

There's only one combination that couldn't be listed: 'Shoreh Agdashloo = Inara Serra'. You couldn't put that one in the cast listing, could you? And so, they didn't. It's a mystery, but only because we're talking about an Oscar-nominated actress with a 'black hole' where her cast listing should be, while other worthies like 'Demetra Raven = Girl Student #2' (surely, an Academy classmate of River's) do have one.

On the other hand, maybe Joss is playing head games with us (me). JW: "Who me?! Why, I'd never muck about with my fans heads like that! Although, on the other hand, thanks for the compliment." Still, it'd be a little insulting to Ms. Agdashloo to perpetrate such a hoax and not give her due credit for her performance... Unless it's no hoax (i.e., I've guessed correctly) and her listing can't be included until after the theatrical run, because it spoils the plot, similar to a listing of 'Kevin Spacey = The Killer' would be spoiling in a Cast entry for "Se7en" (sorry if that spoiled "Se7en" for you, but hey, sh*t happens Mr. Van Winkle).

Questions? Comments? Concerns?


Explicatively,

zoid
_________________________________________________

"Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me." The Ballad of Serenity

Only 164 days, 12 hours, 56 minutes, and 8 seconds left until The BDM!
(...and we find out that Inara is actually at least 56 years old, kept young-looking by regular injections and yearly rejuvenation treatments. Her "same as last year" comment in the "Ariel" ep is good evidence seen from this viewpoint. She's not getting better, she's getting older.)

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Monday, November 8, 2004 6:52 AM

ZOID


Purp:

You know me so well. You jumped my route like a Pro Bowl corner, and took it to the house. Good to have you back!

On a personal note, I'd have cast you as 'Mr. Universe', in deference to your past as a BOH.

v/r,
zed

P.S.
American football references may not be apropos, but, as PurpleBelly has pointed out, I'm nothing if not a creature of (very predictable) habit.

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Monday, November 8, 2004 8:21 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by Hawk:
Two things the series seem to avoid:

From the western quarter:
"Trick shots". Things like Sergio Leone's No-Name winning three-men-on-one-man shootouts, almost preternatural marksmanship etc.




Uhhh.. butcher's knife??!! Anyone remember River's amazing 3 ball combination at the Niska Plex?

You might want to check out the interview with JW posted at http://joblo.com - looks like we're 170 odd days from some wire exploits too.

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Monday, November 8, 2004 8:45 AM

ZOID


pizmobeach:

Yeah, and to come back from the detour to 'young Inara'/'old Inara', the fact that Ms. Silvestri was a gymnast suggests that both Inaras may perform gymnastics in their fighting scenes. Additionally, any other Companions seen in the film may be similarly trained in esoteric martial arts and physical disciplines. Think 'Shaolin priestesses', rather than Trinity or Yoda, per se.

Hopefully, no outright flying -- as in "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon" -- but, some Michelle Yeoh-style fighting would explain a lot about why sp'whores don't need sp'pimps...

Here's Karin:
http://www.usastunts.com/members/karinsilvestri/

Be sure to check out her Quicktime demo reel on that page, for a feel of what 'the Inaras' will look like fighting.


v/r,
zed

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Monday, November 8, 2004 9:52 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by PurpleBelly:
You've asked for it now. Get that scroll button ready Good hijack, Zoid



I should have listened - my bad.

Soooo, I just happen to have a can of gasoline handy....you've deduced that the older actress might be Inara without her youth-dope - does she make it out of the movie alive? Or is Inara the "price of freedom" that JW has mentioned in some Serenity interviews?

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Monday, November 8, 2004 10:45 AM

DELIA


Zoid,

Have you considered that Inara is really a man and Bruce Willis is dead? (As long as you're giving away endings and potential endings.)

I'm not quite convinced. For one thing, I REALLY don't want it to be anti-aging drugs, which is a notion that has always bugged me. For another, this is Joss. He doesn't play fair. And it is not unheard of distinguished actors to do unbilled cameos. In fact, it's kind of an honor, as it implies that surely everyone will recognize you without us having to tell them.

Delia

___________________________________________
Giles: Don’t taunt the fear demon.
Xander: Why, can he hurt me?
Giles: No, it’s just . . . tacky.

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Monday, November 8, 2004 1:15 PM

ZOID


pizmobeach:

Gosh, I hope she doesn't die; especially since Morena seems so keen on the role and possible sequels. I just think it means Mal is gonna have to make a difficult decision, and endure another gut-punch twist of fate. He clearly loves her. The question then becomes, does he love her for who she is, or for what she looks like? Can he still love a woman 20 years his senior, in the same way he could love a woman 10 years his junior?

But, put away those matches and read on, because...

Delia, Mistress of Tomes:

When I originally stated this theory, I put it in spoiler tags. Someone else told me I was being ridiculous, because I have no certain knowledge of the veracity of the theory. I'm just speculating, like everyone else.

When I first posted on this board back on April Fool's Day '04, I reposted some of the stuff I had originally posted on alt.tv.firefly some months prior. Just some pet theories I had developed, as a way of introducing myself. My first reprint was a 3-part series on the role of apostasy and religion in Firefly. At that time, I felt that Inara (and possibly her mom, 'Azeera') was a member of an ancient Babylonian religion, which no longer exists. Literally, a 'Whore of Babylon', the temple priestesses were notable for practicing sexual acts as a means of worship and 'healing'. I also postulated that the contents of her syringe -- which she ponders in the pilot ep -- was an amphetamine/adrenaline-type drug that would allow her to move faster than an assailant.

The fact that Ms. Silvestri is Morena's stunt double may be evidence that my initial theory was correct instead. Of course, we're still not any closer to knowing why Shoreh needs a stunt double, or why she's not listed in credits. I grok your argument about cameos for well-known stars; but Ms. Agdashloo is hardly so familiar a face that people would recognize her, this side of the Iranian movie industry...

So, for my money, they're either both Inara, or the whole thing is an epic hoax.


Respectfully,

zoid

P.S.
Inara's mom's name is not Azeera. I made it up.
_________________________________________________

"Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me." The Ballad of Serenity

Only 164 days, 6 hours, 4 minutes, and 57 seconds left until The BDM!
(When all shall be revealed)

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Tuesday, November 9, 2004 8:42 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Just as a late comment- I'd be disappointed if there was a lot of wirework and flomo and all that. The original motivation for the FF series was a historical book about southern soldiers turned out after the Civil War and how DIFFICULT life was, how hard and uncertain. That was what was attracted me to FF in the first place: that FF is down-to-earth (in some cases, down-to-cow-plop) and nothing "magical" or supernatural happens.

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Tuesday, November 9, 2004 8:48 AM

DELIA


Zoid,

I wasn't commenting on the spoilering of Serenity, but Se7en, a movie which I haven't actually seen, and don't actually mean to, so I really don't care. I was just being silly.

I kind of like the whore of Babylon idea. I do think it's interesting that the title you aim for in the Companion house is priestess (I've never seen much speculation on that), especially since the scene in the pilot Serentity in which she asks if he's come to give her a lecture (with lepers?) implies that while what she does may be legal and socially acceptable, the established religions don't accept it. Which really does make me wonder where religion fits into the Firefly universe.

One thing I haven't seen you consider (and I don't know that I like this theory or think it very Joss-ish) is that they are both Inara but that Agdashloo is playing Inara in the future, either setting the story up as a flashback or as part of someone's dreams or imagining. Not sure about that.

As for Inara's mom, aren't you going to feel silly if it turns out her name IS Azeera?

Delia

___________________________________________
Giles: Don’t taunt the fear demon.
Xander: Why, can he hurt me?
Giles: No, it’s just . . . tacky.

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Tuesday, November 9, 2004 9:08 AM

PURPLEBELLY


Quote:

Originally posted by Delia:
I do think it's interesting that the title you aim for in the Companion house is priestess (I've never seen much speculation on that)

Quote:

Heart of Gold NANDI:
... There's forty women in House Madrassa and you'd pick her out in a second. Coulda been House Priestess, few years time.


There's no indication whether the title is ordained or honourific, but I would expect something subtly Sino rather than fundamentally Anglo.

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Tuesday, November 9, 2004 9:57 AM

ZOID



Delia wrote:
Quote:

...I do think it's interesting that the title you aim for in the Companion house is priestess (I've never seen much speculation on that)...


From the HoG ep:

...(Regarding why Inara left Sihnon)

NANDI
Yes you did, and I don't know my own
self. I was gone long before. And
I'll tell you, it was a shock, her
leaving. She was special. There's
forty women in House Madrassa and
you'd pick her out in a second.
Coulda been House Priestess, few
years time.

This implies that years ago (first emphasized phrase) Nandi left the House, before Inara had her 'loss of faith' and gave up the hunt for "House Priestess".

And here's some evidence for rejuvenation:

NANDI (to Inara)
And you look exactly the same as the
day I left. How do you do that out
here?


Please note the wording. Nandi doesn't seem so incredulous that Inara looks the same, only that she manages to retain her youth "out here". ...So far from the House's pharmacy and clinic?

From the Message ep's shooting script:

"During this, Inara finds a small package, squarish, addressed to her. She smoothly slips it beneath her outfit without anyone noticing, turns to see Kaylee arrive, looking glum."

The scene is edited on the DVD to omit Inara's surreptitious movement. But, it implies -- as does Joss' comment in the Serenity ep -- that Inara's getting a supply of drugs. Some have said she's dying. I (and others) have said the syringe was a suicide dose or a fighting aid, since Reaver's were attacking. I now believe it's rejuvenation drugs.

I've always thought that Inara has an 'old soul'. Could turn out that the only thing young about her is her apparent age...


Respectfully,

zoid

P.S.
Interesting music in the opening scene of HoG, outside the whorehouse; not Oriental, but originating from the Mesopotamia-to-India region. I never noticed that before.
_________________________________________________

"Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me." The Ballad of Serenity

Only 163 days, 9 hours, 13 minutes, and 15 seconds left until The BDM!

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Tuesday, November 9, 2004 10:56 AM

PURPLEBELLY


Quote:

Originally posted by zoid:
The scene is edited on the DVD to omit Inara's surreptitious movement. But, it implies -- as does Joss' comment in the Serenity ep -- that Inara's getting a supply of drugs.

And also instructions from her cell of the True Alliance faction.
After Book and Inara had reported to their respective cells during their absence in Ariel,
a decision has been made to recall Inara and leave Book to shepherd River on board Serenity while Inara uses the contacts she has established on the Border planets to enable River's progress towards the witness protection programme. Inara's subsequent hand-wringing in Heart of Gold is a cover for these instructions.

Only Purplebelly believes this

This thread has two covert operatives aboard, which is Book and which Inara I'll leave to you

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