GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

could jayne be a dad ?

POSTED BY: BROWNCOATFAN1
UPDATED: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 16:39
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Saturday, August 21, 2004 3:35 PM

BROWNCOATFAN1


its possible. he sleeps around alot


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Saturday, August 21, 2004 3:51 PM

BLACKSHAMROCK5


Yeah...I'm sure he'd be a great dad...

Shamrock
---------------------
"Jayne, grab your weapon"-Zoe

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Saturday, August 21, 2004 3:59 PM

SGTGUMP


He seems like a guy who would heavily rely on 'Immaculate Contraception'.

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Saturday, August 21, 2004 4:45 PM

CAPTAINHARBATKIN


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Saturday, August 21, 2004 4:46 PM

CAPTAINHARBATKIN


He insists he has "man parts", so, I suppose it's possible he's a father. Whether that makes him a "dad" is a different question, no?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
...they'll rape us to death, eat our flesh, and sew our skins into their
clothing - and if we're very, very lucky, they'll do it in that order.
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Saturday, August 21, 2004 7:55 PM

PURPLEBELLY


Jayne's history of abuse as a child would place a burden on responsible fatherhood, though not an insurmountable one with the right partner.

The resolution of his problems of self-worth would probably be more straight forward in a same sex relationship.

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Sunday, August 22, 2004 2:45 PM

WILDHEAVENFARM


My first impulse is to say "A hundred times over," but Jayne actually strikes me as the kind of guy that's a fanatical condom user. That would especially make sense since it seems he has an affinity for whore and loose bar women and, as they say, "you don't know where that's been."

Mary
Always a beast, never a burden.

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Sunday, August 22, 2004 3:28 PM

GWENHARKER


Jayne has a history of child abuse? When was this alluded to? :: feels like she's missed something ::

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Sunday, August 22, 2004 3:29 PM

LISSA


"that's why i never kiss'em on the mouth."
:)

~lissa, spwhore

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Sunday, August 22, 2004 7:22 PM

PURPLEBELLY


Quote:

Originally posted by GwenHarker:
Jayne has a history of child abuse? When was this alluded to? :: feels like she's missed something ::


None directly. From our observation of our society at large, we can note that personality problems like Jayne's often have a root in childhood abuse. From our observation of the Whedonverse, we can note that childhood abuse is a common theme.

There has been some community support for this notion on the Browncoats Universal site.
For once, Purplebelly is not the only one that believes this

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Monday, August 23, 2004 9:12 AM

RHYMEPHILE


Quote:

Originally posted by PurpleBelly:
...From our observation of the Whedonverse, we can note that childhood abuse is a common theme.



Yeah, that and the anti-father sentiment that pops up in his shows: Buffy and her dad; Willow and her non-existent one; Xander and his parents (who are also drinkers); Angel killing (!) his dad and his father's overall displeasure with him; Angel and Connor; Connor and Holtz; poor poor Wesley and his father (and didn't we learn somewhere -- or it was alluded to -- that Wesley was abused as a child?); and I'm sure there are more.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
All of me is beautiful and valuable, even the ugly, stupid, and disgusting parts.

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Monday, August 23, 2004 9:44 AM

WILDHEAVENFARM


I think that's more indicative of JW having paternal issues. Jayne, for all his thuggery, strikes me as a solid individual. He has a good work ethic, takes care of his body, bows his head in the presence of a holyman praying, wants others to remember him fondly, etc. Also, he seems to be fond enough of his family, for what little we actually know about them.

Mary
Always a beast, never a burden.

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Monday, August 23, 2004 10:12 AM

TMURRIE


I think if a baby were ever to come into Jayne's life, he'd a be a really good dad. You know why? Because he would protect that kid as if it were his baby cub, and he was the momma bear. I bet there would have been an episode where Jayne's baby comes in, he hates it then starts to like it, it gets taken away, Jayne gets furious and goes and kills the bad guys who took it, then gives it back to whoever gave it to him, or a foster family because his life is too dangerous for the baby's safety. And we close with a sad looking Jayne.

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Monday, August 23, 2004 10:23 AM

PURPLEBELLY


Quote:

Originally posted by tmurrie:
Because he would protect that kid as if it were his baby cub, and he was the momma bear.


Jayne as a bear? Well, he'd have to stop working out

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Monday, August 23, 2004 11:45 AM

STILLSHINY


Quote:

Originally posted by RhymePhile:
Quote:

Originally posted by PurpleBelly:
...From our observation of the Whedonverse, we can note that childhood abuse is a common theme.



Yeah, that and the anti-father sentiment that pops up in his shows: Buffy and her dad; Willow and her non-existent one; Xander and his parents (who are also drinkers); Angel killing (!) his dad and his father's overall displeasure with him; Angel and Connor; Connor and Holtz; poor poor Wesley and his father (and didn't we learn somewhere -- or it was alluded to -- that Wesley was abused as a child?); and I'm sure there are more.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
All of me is beautiful and valuable, even the ugly, stupid, and disgusting parts.




Ah, but Jayne actually references his father in a positive (words of wisdom)light when he says "My Pop used to say anyone who can't find work ain't looking hard enough."

Gorammit I wish I could remember what episode this is from!!!!

"Two roads diverged in a wood, and I took the road less traveled by and they CANCELLED MY FRIKKIN' SHOW. I totally shoulda took the road that had all those people on it. Damn." --Joss

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Monday, August 23, 2004 2:24 PM

THEGREYJEDI


I think it was Ariel, where the crew thought they'd be stuck on ship during the visit to the core world. I think that Jayne would probably make a good father. Not perfect, but protective. We see instances of Jayne's softer side in Serenity, kneeling outside the infirmary; Heart of Gold, where Jayne's brushing the girls hair, and the fact that he's a spooner; the message he's really happy to hear from his family, loved the hat he got, and even sends money to his mother. I don't think we'll ever see back-stabbing Jayne. Not after Ariel. You can see in the imaging room that Jayne starts to have second thoughts about his actions after hearing what they did to River, but again, she did cut him but good earlier that day.

--------------------------------------------------
http://tomeofgrey.blogspot.com/

Coming Soon: JedSoft!

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Monday, August 23, 2004 3:23 PM

WHITEKNIGHT


Purplebelly,
I disagree with your idea that Jayne was abused as a child. He doesn't show any of the symptoms of having been an abused child. He isn't outwardly violent. He isn't abusive himself. He doesn't suffer from an infiority complex, and he isn't shy or meek.
If he sufferes from anything he suffers from Hubris, excessive pride, and having lost somebody very near and dear to him. More than likely as a child or adolescent. I point to the fact that he rushes into dangerous situations, he choose a "career" that is high risk, he purposely puts himself in dangerous situations. (Evidence includes, the train job, the time that he hangs out of the ship while Mal rescues Simon and his sister from buring.) Situations where he could very easily die. This is a classic symptom of a child being scared by at least one tramitic death. Also, he is petrified of death. Another sign of a death. He wants to die, but is too afraid to let it happen. Hence the reason he is so good at what he does... staying alive.

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Monday, August 23, 2004 3:49 PM

GWENHARKER


I also say I have to disagree with you, Purplebelly. Although Joss shows have a certain lack of blood family, that's part of the show. Finding family and making family all your own. I also think that JW might have a few parental issues (perhaps dissagreement on his lack of faith?)

That said, Jayne probably had a tough childhood. Like someone said above: Jayne's dad said that if you haven't found work, you're not looking hard enough. I think they had rough times when he was younger, his father possibly losing his job due to injury perhaps? And maybe he was the one that Jayne might've lost at a young age, aiding his excessive "manly" behavior, tough guy attitude, but at the heart is a 'mama's boy', as seen in 'The Message'.

I'm sure Jayne would make a great father, teaching his children, be they boy or girl, how to properly shoot someone and lick them knives :P

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Monday, August 23, 2004 7:14 PM

PURPLEBELLY


Quote:

Originally posted by Stillshiny:
Ah, but Jayne actually references his father in a positive (words of wisdom)light when he says "My Pop used to say anyone who can't find work ain't looking hard enough."


Those were his father's final words to Jayne as he threw him out of his home. No doubt he thought they were character building.

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Monday, August 23, 2004 10:25 PM

JHARROD


Quote:

Originally posted by TheGreyJedi:
I think that Jayne would probably make a good father. Not perfect, but protective.



Is there even such a thing as a perfect father? If so, how come I didn't get one of these newer models?

"They tell ya to never hit a man with a closed fist, but it is on occassion hilarious"

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Tuesday, August 24, 2004 1:46 AM

GAVIDA


Well, you could say that Jayne could be bad under the right circumstances.
I mean he is.... errr... oh you said "a dad"


Keep flying,
Gavida


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Tuesday, August 24, 2004 2:53 AM

WILDHEAVENFARM


Quote:

Originally posted by PurpleBelly:
Quote:

Originally posted by Stillshiny:
Ah, but Jayne actually references his father in a positive (words of wisdom)light when he says "My Pop used to say anyone who can't find work ain't looking hard enough."


Those were his father's final words to Jayne as he threw him out of his home. No doubt he thought they were character building.



Boy, you sure do like to speculate. And being kicked out isn't necessarily abusive. There's them as needs a little bit of a boot to the backside to get the out of the nest. I doubt that's Jayne's case, though, he strikes me as the kind who set out on his own at the first opportunity.

Mary
Always a beast, never a burden.

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Tuesday, August 24, 2004 2:40 PM

HKCAVALIER


I usually try to avoid Jayne threads because they tend to be a bonanza for sentimentalists: I love Jayne, Jayne never really wanted to turn Simon and River in, Jayne is the most honest character on the show, Jayne should marry Kaylee, etc.

But when I read the subject of this thread, it made me think of a man I work with. He's a handsome man, charismatic and funny. He reminds me of Jayne. He's also the father of 5 children by 3 different women, none of whom he lives with or cares for. He works two jobs and sometimes keeps up with his child support. He is (at the moment and hopefully for the rest of his life) an ex-gangster. What he most certainly is not is good father material. He cannot sustain a relationship with a woman for any length of time and children are nothing he's ever seen a man care about so he's really bewildered by that whole idea.

So I start to read this thread and pretty soon here's Purplebelly with the most temperate observation that the boy Jayne was ill-treated and everybody rushes to sweet, sweet Jayne's aid.

Some observations: Jayne is a professional mercinary, i.e: he kills people for money (maybe his latest employer is a little different than most and curbs Jayne's inclinations, but this is not anything Jayne is happy about). Jayne will shoot a man as part of a salary dispute. Jayne will gladly participate in torture and shows disappointment when given orders that the torture be limited to threats and intimidation. Jayne frequents whores. Jayne obviously cares for Kaylee but can only insult her to her face or hide his affection from the entire crew, shamefully watching over Kaylee from a convenient hiding place. Jayne's "Chain of camand" remarks are indeed funny but they are also thoroughly abusive to everyone in the room. Jayne thinks bartering an assault rifle for a human being is a good trade. And this is just off the top of my head having not seen the show for a good six months.

Jayne's character on the show is what I'd call "finessed." Nobody wants to see Jayne at his absolute worst, so Joss & co. save us again and again from seeing Jayne follow his own inclinations. He almost tortures people, almost takes violent control of the ship when Mal is indisposed, only kills people we the audience have already determined to be "bad." This is not because Jayne is such a decent guy, but because the writers choose to show him at his best most of the time. It's not unlike Quentin Tarantino's depiction of John Travolta's character in Pulp Fiction, a heroin addicted assassin who we none the less like and hope gets to sleep with Uma Thurman.

So, of course, Jayne is a survivor of an abusive childhood, I don't know that there are any professional killers who aren't. I don't know anyone who's been put in jail for violent crimes who wasn't. Is he therefore beyond redemption? Of course not. I'm just saying he's still got a long ways to go. I wish him all the luck, but I don't want him having any babies anytime soon.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Tuesday, August 24, 2004 2:52 PM

VEARSTWIN


I don't believe that Jayne thinks of Kaylee more like a sister but that's it. I also think that Jayne would be a good father but it would have to be a long time for now. But when it comes it would be funny to see how he deals with a kid.

"Jayne is a girl's name"-River

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Tuesday, August 24, 2004 3:20 PM

WILDHEAVENFARM


Let's try boiling this down to a simpler question, which may yield insight: Does Jayne take care of his responsibilities? (canon evidence only)

Mary
Always a beast, never a burden.

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Tuesday, August 24, 2004 6:59 PM

HKCAVALIER


Quote:

Originally posted by WildHeavenFarm:
Let's try boiling this down to a simpler question, which may yield insight: Does Jayne take care of his responsibilities? (canon evidence only)

Mary
Always a beast, never a burden.



Sure, if his responsibilities are killing people, cleaning guns, sharpening knives, torturing captives, threatening the rest of the crew with bodily harm if they go against him. But if his responsibilities include respecting women (i.e: not thinking they can be bartered for with assault rifles), treating others as equals, keeping the best interests of his family at heart, not on your life. I don't think you can be a good father if you treat women like whores and objects. Besides, Jayne is a child (man-parts, not withstanding).

I think being a parent is a little more involved than doing exactly what Mal tells you (except when he ain't lookin', o' course).

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Wednesday, August 25, 2004 3:15 AM

WILDHEAVENFARM


Perhaps Jayne viewed Saffron as a commodity because that's how she came to be there, as chattle. He never places bids for Kaylee, River, or Zoe. He doesn't even go after the woman who has sex for money. Seems to me he respects them fine, his crass sense of humor aside. And if making mean/dirty jokes at someone else's expense means that you can't also respect them, you'd hate my in-laws. Their whole family is very no-frills and straightforward (granted, I wouldn't mind a little tact from them occassionally).

Mary
Always a beast, never a burden.

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Wednesday, August 25, 2004 3:39 AM

TREVELYAN


I think if Jayne had a kid he would take care of it and teach him/her to be a strong fighter just like him.

p.s. f- you fox, may u burn in hell

-You wanna go little man?
-Only if its some place with candel light.

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Wednesday, August 25, 2004 7:07 AM

WALKERHOUND


well i think jayne dose on the holle respect women. just not in the way that i hope most of use on this borad or in real life would. but it is consestent with the way he is like a child in many ways. he is big strong and deadly but in a lot of ways his develpment is vary arrested, moraly and plyspclay(closs as i can come spelling wise) some ware in child hood or adulesnce.

in hart of gould he dosn't act like he is there to find the love of his life or to start a long term dating relasnship with anybody. why? because he nows that he is in a whore house and that thay are whors. i.e thay will have sex with him for money and he has no problem with that jayne likes sex and has no problem with a strate foword businss arangment to get it. also he dosnet acte like he is beater than the girls(burgess i'm sure saw hemself as the upstanding piller of the comuntey and thay as well whore's/sluts/fallen women some thing that he was clerlay better than and showed it). jayne used whore as just a statment of fact, that is what thay do for a living(he kills peaple and stealls things for a liveing thay wash flies space shippes thay have sex. its all good) and he was there to take advanteg of there survices. in shorte he nows why he is there and why thay are there and isn't going to try and prety it up.

we don't here what the rest of the crew got form the setlers in OMR but jayne got a stike and mal got a wife, and mal dosn'et want her. well hell jayne will take here. though i am sure that jaynes idea of how to treat a wife are almost surtnley a little more unorthedox(he would at least be a trile as a husben surly) but hot women that can cook and lets him boss her around is probley just what he thinks the word means(maby this is one of the reasons wash anyos him so much wash and zoy don't folow the patern he ecpeckts).

i going to leve it at that for right now mabbay i'll be back later to address some of the other points. i don't want to overload any body with my spelling

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Wednesday, August 25, 2004 4:39 PM

WILDHEAVENFARM


I respect what you said, but I think your spelling made a friend of mine kill himself. He won't let me post his name. He says there will too much rejoicing here if folks think he's snuffed it. Here's a hint: he writes incredible smut.

Mary
Always a beast, never a burden.

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