GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Please stop scaring Nathan

POSTED BY: ZEEK
UPDATED: Monday, March 7, 2011 08:12
SHORT URL: http://goo.gl/E1dg9
VIEWED: 5161
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Thursday, March 3, 2011 5:26 PM

ZEEK


This is one of the reasons I didn't like the campaign to buy Firefly for Nathan. He made one little offhand comment and some fans went crazy.

http://www.backstage.com/bso/news-and-features-features/king-of-the-ca
stle-1005053882.story?pn=1


Quote:

Back Stage: You recently made news by saying if you won $300 million, you would buy the rights to "Firefly," which started a fan campaign online. What does Joss think of your plan?

Fillion: Oh, my God, listen: It makes me scared just to say something nice about "Firefly" when people then say, "Let's gather money." Please, don't send money. I made an offhanded comment about "Wouldn't that be great?"


(note: quote is from page 2 of the article)

If you want Nathan to keep talking about Firefly in interviews then back off. I'm sure Browncoats can show some patience and restraint if we all try just a little.

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Thursday, March 3, 2011 8:16 PM

BYTEMITE


Yeah, kinda figured we'd freak out the norms on this one. At least it was pretty funny for about a week, but now I feel bad.

But >_> He really didn't see this coming?

Our actors are cute. We must shelter their poor dear innocence. (actually not sarcastic)

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Friday, March 4, 2011 3:04 AM

CHANNAIN

i DO aim to misbehave


Quote:

Originally posted by Zeek:
This is one of the reasons I didn't like the campaign to buy Firefly for Nathan. He made one little offhand comment and some fans went crazy.

So serving up a little "I told you so" ?

Quote:

Originally posted by Zeek:
If you want Nathan to keep talking about Firefly in interviews then back off. I'm sure Browncoats can show some patience and restraint if we all try just a little.

Well, now Nathan knows; there are some serious "Brownies" among the Browncoats.

Lesson learned. No more bandwagon jumping for me. I'll just go back to my quiet little non-canon Firefly RP and sigh wistfully over Nathan's Tweets. Situation normal...

Veteran of the 2002 Throes of Cancellation—FFF.net fan since January 7, 2003
Doing the impossible makes us mighty
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Friday, March 4, 2011 3:27 AM

INVADERCHAT


Yeah, I gotta admit this whole thing embarrassed me a little, I stayed way back.

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Friday, March 4, 2011 3:48 AM

SISTER


Awww..never be embarrassed by passion; it's a good thing! (IMHO)

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Friday, March 4, 2011 3:56 AM

CHANNAIN

i DO aim to misbehave


Quote:

Originally posted by Sister:
Awww..never be embarrassed by passion; it's a good thing! (IMHO)

It is a good thing, but it has to be very very very ... very carefully wielded.

And be prepared to get smacked on the hand for it. For every passionate person, there's a curmudgeon waiting under a bridge.

Veteran of the 2002 Throes of Cancellation—FFF.net fan since January 7, 2003
Doing the impossible makes us mighty
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Friday, March 4, 2011 4:19 AM

ZEEK


Quote:

Originally posted by Channain:
So serving up a little "I told you so" ?


Yep and I'm seriously considering that we should have a facebook page or something for browncoats to "like" that says something like "we are here waiting for Firefly to return, but we WILL NOT join any campaign to bring back the show unless it is supported by Joss, the actors, writers or someone officially associated with Firefly/Serenity." Just so we can all show our support without having to be scary.

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Friday, March 4, 2011 4:32 AM

CHANNAIN

i DO aim to misbehave


Quote:

Originally posted by Zeek:
Yep and I'm seriously considering that we should have a facebook page or something for browncoats to "like" that says something like "we are here waiting for Firefly to return, but we WILL NOT join any campaign to bring back the show unless it is supported by Joss, the actors, writers or someone officially associated with Firefly/Serenity." Just so we can all show our support without having to be scary.

Then rock on with your bad self.

But what I said about the hand-smacking goes for you too. If you're prepared to take what you dish out - and you dished out well enough that I seriously considered asking Haken to cancel my membership here - don't do it.

The only thing that might possibly be more voracious than a parent protecting a child is a fan protecting their genre, and as has been proven - and personally observed by me in the real and virtual environments - none are more vicious than Browncoats.

Present company included.

Veteran of the 2002 Throes of Cancellation—FFF.net fan since January 7, 2003
Doing the impossible makes us mighty
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Friday, March 4, 2011 4:41 AM

ZEEK


Quote:

Originally posted by Channain:
Quote:

Originally posted by Zeek:
Yep and I'm seriously considering that we should have a facebook page or something for browncoats to "like" that says something like "we are here waiting for Firefly to return, but we WILL NOT join any campaign to bring back the show unless it is supported by Joss, the actors, writers or someone officially associated with Firefly/Serenity." Just so we can all show our support without having to be scary.

Then rock on with your bad self.

But what I said about the hand-smacking goes for you too. If you're prepared to take what you dish out - and you dished out well enough that I seriously considered asking Haken to cancel my membership here - don't do it.

The only thing that might possibly be more voracious than a parent protecting a child is a fan protecting their genre, and as has been proven - and personally observed by me in the real and virtual environments - none are more vicious than Browncoats.

Present company included.


Yeah people can complain about patience all they want. I've got thick skin.

And I was never upset with you posting about the campaign. I was upset about the campaign itself. Unless you were the anonymous creator of the campaign I guess.

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Friday, March 4, 2011 4:51 AM

CHANNAIN

i DO aim to misbehave


Quote:

Originally posted by Zeek:
And I was never upset with you posting about the campaign. I was upset about the campaign itself. Unless you were the anonymous creator of the campaign I guess.

If I was organizing a campaign, you'd know it was me.

The problem with this form of communication media, though, is that a general attack against a campaign can feel like a personal attack against the one launching the campaign. Or in some cases blithely supporting it.

When you're not upset with the person, you should probably say so. I figured it out, but as has been stated ad nauseum and so far mostly by me, others won't be quite as analytical.

Everyone's skin is thick, right up until it isn't. Choose your battles wisely.

Veteran of the 2002 Throes of Cancellation—FFF.net fan since January 7, 2003
Doing the impossible makes us mighty
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Friday, March 4, 2011 5:19 AM

GWEK


With all due respect to our captain, if Nathan was scared, too bad for him. Honestly, I think his various statements backing off from the idea of money have a lot more to do with CYA in case folk got duped into sendiong money than it did with him being "scared" (or even surprised).

And what both Fillion and some of you are failing to understand is that this isn't ABOUT Nathan. It's about FIREFLY. Yes, the theoretical push was to get money for Nathan himself, but that's only because he was the guy saying "Yep, if I had enough money, I'd make FIREFLY."

Ultimately, what was important (and positive) about what happened is that for a brief period, FIREFLY got some mainstream coverage. Between the return to basic cable, Fillion's comment, and the response, the show has gotten more attention (among non-Browncoats) in the past two weeks than it has over the previous 2 or 3 years.

And that's not nothin'.

Personally, I didn't for a SECOND think that Nathan was really serious about his comment (he actually made a very similar comment about filling the airwaves with commercials for CASTLE), nor did I think that even a group as passionate as the Browncoats would be able to collect 300 million dollars... But if the demonstration of passion was strong enough, if the right decision-maker realized that the audience is still out there and strong (and growing through the years rather than shrinking!), then maybe... Just maybe...

Ah, well. Or maybe not.

Anyone (Nathan included) who thinks a passionate show of support for the show is negative or surprising is forgetting that that very thing is what helped SERENITY get made.



www.stillflying.net: "Here's how it might have been..."

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Friday, March 4, 2011 5:27 AM

CHANNAIN

i DO aim to misbehave


Quote:

Originally posted by Gwek:
With all due respect to our captain, if Nathan was scared, too bad for him. Honestly, I think his various statements backing off from the idea of money have a lot more to do with CYA in case folk got duped into sending money than it did with him being "scared" (or even surprised).

And what both Fillion and some of you are failing to understand is that this isn't ABOUT Nathan. It's about FIREFLY. Yes, the theoretical push was to get money for Nathan himself, but that's only because he was the guy saying "Yep, if I had enough money, I'd make FIREFLY."

Brings me back to a question I had.

Zeek, are you a personal friend of Nathan's? Head of his fan club?

Does he have a fan club?

I don't get this overly exuberant protection of the man, otherwise. Nathan is a big boy and a professional. He's been to ComicCon - he knows his fandom WAY better than we do. There's a lot more to be scared of there than a few fans willing to throw money at a common cause.

You might want to consider that any launch of any campagin to "Stop Scaring Nathan" might bring you a heckuva lot more trouble than you seem to think the "Help Nathan Get His Money" did for the rest of us.

Veteran of the 2002 Throes of Cancellation—FFF.net fan since January 7, 2003
Doing the impossible makes us mighty
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Friday, March 4, 2011 5:35 AM

ZEEK


Quote:

Originally posted by GWEK:
With all due respect to our captain, if Nathan was scared, too bad for him. Honestly, I think his various statements backing off from the idea of money have a lot more to do with CYA in case folk got duped into sendiong money than it did with him being "scared" (or even surprised).


Let's say that's true (even though we don't really know). If Nathan decides the easiest way to cover his ass in the future is to just not say anything supportive of a return to Firefly then look where that gets us. We'll lose even his attempts to get Firefly into the mainstream media during interviews. Even if this is just about Firefly then it's probably still a good idea to keep Nathan as a spokesperson. If he switches to politically correct shut down mode and just answers "I haven't heard anything about any revival of Firefly/Serenity" whenever he's asked then those portions of interviews will be boring and forgettable.

I'm also not so sure how much the main stream attention did help us. We might get some new fans out of it, but we also showed that our support amounts to just a few tens of thousands of vocal fans who joined the campaign. That's pretty much exactly what the networks and studios are worried about. We can sound somewhat popular on the internet with those numbers but that won't be near enough to support a new movie or series. We're just a few million shy of that kind of support.

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Friday, March 4, 2011 6:25 AM

ZEEK


Quote:

Originally posted by Channain:
Brings me back to a question I had.

Zeek, are you a personal friend of Nathan's? Head of his fan club?

Does he have a fan club?

I don't get this overly exuberant protection of the man, otherwise. Nathan is a big boy and a professional. He's been to ComicCon - he knows his fandom WAY better than we do. There's a lot more to be scared of there than a few fans willing to throw money at a common cause.

You might want to consider that any launch of any campagin to "Stop Scaring Nathan" might bring you a heckuva lot more trouble than you seem to think the "Help Nathan Get His Money" did for the rest of us.


It's not to protect him. I'm sure he's not cowering in fear. It's that he might change his attitude towards Firefly in interviews if he constantly has to manage browncoats after everything he says. I'm more concerned we'll lose his enthusiasm and fun personality. Which I am a fan of.

I wouldn't launch a campaign to protect Nathan though. Like I said it would be about pledging not to join the campaign of the week. Basically stating our quiet support of the show and that no half assed campaign will get any of that support.

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Friday, March 4, 2011 6:29 AM

CHANNAIN

i DO aim to misbehave


Quote:

Originally posted by Zeek:
I'm more concerned we'll lose his enthusiasm and fun personality. Which I am a fan of.

Given he's been that way at least since Two Guys A Girl and a Pizza Place, I don't find that very likely. Besides, Browncoats have to be slightly more classy fans than whatever was following him around when he was on One Life to Live.

ou still didn't answer the question - which I have asked twice, by the way; in the thread that I've abandoned, and here.

Are you a personal friend of his? Because really, unless you are, you're not really any better judge of what will or won't affect him than the rest of us.

Veteran of the 2002 Throes of Cancellation—FFF.net fan since January 7, 2003
Doing the impossible makes us mighty
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Friday, March 4, 2011 6:43 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Money talks, bullshite walks.

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Friday, March 4, 2011 6:49 AM

ZEEK


Quote:

Originally posted by Channain:
You still didn't answer the question - which I have asked twice, by the way; in the thread that I've abandoned, and here.

Are you a personal friend of his? Because really, unless you are, you're not really any better judge of what will or won't affect him than the rest of us.


No. Of course not. I didn't even think that was a real question. Though I did guess pretty much spot on that Nathan would not support the campaign and that it would make him think twice about saying that stuff in the future. He didn't say exactly that but if he says that these types of thing scare him then I'm taking it one step further that he might be hesitant to say similar things in the future. I'll take my chances of being wrong on that prediction.

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Friday, March 4, 2011 7:01 AM

CHANNAIN

i DO aim to misbehave


Quote:

Originally posted by Zeek:
I didn't even think that was a real question.

Too bad you didn't guess that I usually ask a question for good reason. Anyway, immaterial.
Quote:

Originally posted by Zeek:
I did guess pretty much spot on that Nathan would not support the campaign and that it would make him think twice about saying that stuff in the future.

That you did - which is a good way to go. Make the assumption, but do the research to back it up and then create the argument - or in this case, wait for the truth to come out.

I don't think any harm was done, though. We didn't really do anything that the Trekkies haven't done well before us, and in a far crazier fashion.


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Friday, March 4, 2011 7:11 AM

ZEEK


Quote:

Originally posted by Channain:
I don't think any harm was done, though. We didn't really do anything that the Trekkies haven't done well before us, and in a far crazier fashion.


Yeah that's where we're going to have to agree to disagree. I think Nathan is now a little more gun shy and that we tipped our hand about how many fans are really out there. The results were underwhelming. A few tens of thousands is not going to turn any heads IMO.

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Friday, March 4, 2011 7:29 AM

CHANNAIN

i DO aim to misbehave


Quote:

Originally posted by Zeek:
Yeah that's where we're going to have to agree to disagree. I think Nathan is now a little more gun shy and that we tipped our hand about how many fans are really out there. The results were underwhelming. A few tens of thousands is not going to turn any heads IMO.

Or he'll just continue to teas by being vague, like he was on Letterman.

"I was in a cancelled TV show that was very popular."

Then again, he could have been referring to Two Guys and a Girl, but he doesn't mention that as much or allude to it like he does Firefly. He also wasn't the main character like he was on Firefly.

I expect this will go the way it always has; things will settle down and he'll go back to his FF innuendo. Because we all do it. And it's fun.

The Fb page is just over 110K now, so it's in the hundreds of thousands range... kinda. Unfortunately, they're also resorting to digging up old news. Serenity in the BSG pilot.

Wait *blows air on it* lemme dust that off before you look at it.

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Friday, March 4, 2011 10:56 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Zeek:
TI'm sure Browncoats can show some patience and restraint if we all try just a little.


Yeah, we're all about restraint.

He said "don't send money" he didn't say "don't gather money". Clearly what he wants is for us to gather money and hold it until we have enough, then he'll say "ok, now send money".

Gathering money a little here and a little there takes a lot of work and he would have to keep records meanwhile he's busy giving interviews and learning his witty Castle banter. I understand that completely, he's a busy man.

So lets all gather money, I know where we can get some sacks with dollar signs on them.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I would rather not ignore your contributions." Niki2, 2010.

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Friday, March 4, 2011 11:02 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Zeek:
Quote:

Originally posted by Channain:
I don't think any harm was done, though. We didn't really do anything that the Trekkies haven't done well before us, and in a far crazier fashion.


Yeah that's where we're going to have to agree to disagree. I think Nathan is now a little more gun shy and that we tipped our hand about how many fans are really out there. The results were underwhelming. A few tens of thousands is not going to turn any heads IMO.



That assumes every fan got involved, which is clearly far from the truth. They know that for every fan that got involved, there are likely dozens who do not.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Friday, March 4, 2011 11:23 AM

ZEEK


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
That assumes every fan got involved, which is clearly far from the truth. They know that for every fan that got involved, there are likely dozens who do not.


You think even multiplying it by a couple dozen is enough fans? We're not even talking a million people.

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Friday, March 4, 2011 11:32 AM

STORYMARK


The 110 thousand fans of the FB page you mentioned, multiplied by a couple dozen, is well over a million. There's a calculator function on your computer, should ya need to check.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Friday, March 4, 2011 12:10 PM

ZEEK


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
The 110 thousand fans of the FB page you mentioned, multiplied by a couple dozen, is well over a million. There's a calculator function on your computer, should ya need to check.


Last I checked it was 30,000ish. Haven't seen 110,000. Still you think a million is enough? Basically where do you think the number is where a network or studio will take notice?

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Friday, March 4, 2011 2:02 PM

ANOTHERCOATOFBROWN


First off, I want to thank all of you for keeping the home fires burning and getting Serenity made.

I am a fan since Jan. 2010

I was in B&N looking for something to read and asked a clerk for a recommendation. She took me to "The name of the wind" by Patrick Rothfuss. I loved the book so much I went to his blog looking for new books. In the blog he recommended Firefly. So I watched. I have never loved a tv program so intensely as this one. This brought me a lot of joy. A lot. Also a lot of pain, but I don't need to tell you guys this.
I now tell anyone who will listen about the show because I want to make them happy too. The chances of the show ever coming back are small, true, but that doesn't mean that others shouldn't enjoy it as we all have. I will support any movement that gets the word out and I think the help Nathan campaign has done that.I wish it had been handled differently, but it was more than I could have done.

Thank you again,

Roger Kea

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Friday, March 4, 2011 3:17 PM

CHANNAIN

i DO aim to misbehave


Earlier today, when I mentioned it, it was 110K and some change. Right now, it's 113K and some change. Not even sure that counts everyone who is talking about this on Twitter and elsewhere in the world.

Remember what I said about researching that assumption you're making? Seriously, you can ASSUME anything. It's allowed. What's not allowed is not doing the work and backing up the assumption with fact.

To build a good argument is to make declarative sentences, back them up with some good premises and end with a viable conclusion based on that information.

To just ASSUME and POST really puts the ASSUMER into a totally awkward situation of saying things like, "I haven't seen..." which leads to, "Buh-buy credibility."

Veteran of the 2002 Throes of Cancellation—FFF.net fan since January 7, 2003
Doing the impossible makes us mighty
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Saturday, March 5, 2011 12:47 PM

BORIS


I always stay right back with these things way way in the back where it's dark and safe and I can make a quick getaway if necessary

Rose S

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Saturday, March 5, 2011 2:47 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


I agree it got way out of proportion, when I saw the website one day after Nathan made the comment I was rather shocked, at the time I said it was the oddest thing I'd ever seen online, people getting that excited that fast. But for better or worse it put Browncoats out there for the world to see. I don't want Nathan to be afraid to mention Firefly in future interviews, but he just might be since this got soooo out there soooo fast.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Sunday, March 6, 2011 5:25 AM

LEXIBLOCK


If he is "scared" he should grow the hell up. Even if he doesn't give a damn about firefly anymore and would prefer people to stop talking about it, people have a right to not only like but want to raise money to do something with the concept.


Quote:

Originally posted by Zeek:
If you want Nathan to keep talking about Firefly in interviews then back off. I'm sure Browncoats can show some patience and restraint if we all try just a little.



You back off.

I don't want him to keep talking about it. I want him to shut up. Clearly now all he cares about is Castle. But if fans want to raise money its none of his business or is it any of yours.

And anybody who says they are ashamed of this or other pejoratives should just shut up and find some one fandom to be condescending towards.

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Sunday, March 6, 2011 12:05 PM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

I don't want him to keep talking about it. I want him to shut up.


o.0

Holy bajezzelbub guys. It's really a heck of a lot more complicated than "Nathan doesn't want us to raise money for Firefly, so he hates us and Firefly now!"

Um, no. Demonstrably no. For one, he's still talking about it TEN YEARS after the fact, and hasn't minded being asked about it in interviews at all. Even when he's moved on to a show that's arguably more well known and successful. I dunno, don't you kinda think he must like Firefly in that case?

For legal reasons right now, he's had to back off of something he said before, but even if this whole thing qualifies as a negative encounter with the fans, you all think that obliterates what he enjoyed about the show and the friends he made? They still hang out together.

I mean, if you want to resent that he HAS to calm people down here (for legal reasons), okay, but then again he also hasn't told people that they can't or shouldn't 1) raise money (see: Can't Take The Serenity charity events), or 2) continue trying to get Firefly on the air. The point he's making here is that he can't accept your money (for legal reasons), not that browncoats shouldn't raise money or work for causes (which they do).

In fact, I seem to remember him saying "keep on being great Browncoats, which you are!"

So, wow. Whoa. And holy cow, people.


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Monday, March 7, 2011 4:46 AM

ZEEK


Quote:

Originally posted by Channain:
Earlier today, when I mentioned it, it was 110K and some change. Right now, it's 113K and some change. Not even sure that counts everyone who is talking about this on Twitter and elsewhere in the world.

Remember what I said about researching that assumption you're making? Seriously, you can ASSUME anything. It's allowed. What's not allowed is not doing the work and backing up the assumption with fact.

To build a good argument is to make declarative sentences, back them up with some good premises and end with a viable conclusion based on that information.

To just ASSUME and POST really puts the ASSUMER into a totally awkward situation of saying things like, "I haven't seen..." which leads to, "Buh-buy credibility."


Now you're just sounding petty. So, if the website is up to 150,000 right now then you've lost all credibility? Things are always changing. We can't know everything at all times. Just like I'm sure the networks and studios aren't glued to the website followers. If they only looked when I did when it was around 30,000 and never came back. You can't ASSUME they have gone back to see where it's at today. See how petty that sounds? Not worth being all attacky over.

Quote:

Originally posted by LexiBlock:
If he is "scared" he should grow the hell up. Even if he doesn't give a damn about firefly anymore and would prefer people to stop talking about it, people have a right to not only like but want to raise money to do something with the concept.


Quote:

Originally posted by Zeek:
If you want Nathan to keep talking about Firefly in interviews then back off. I'm sure Browncoats can show some patience and restraint if we all try just a little.



You back off.

I don't want him to keep talking about it. I want him to shut up. Clearly now all he cares about is Castle. But if fans want to raise money its none of his business or is it any of yours.

And anybody who says they are ashamed of this or other pejoratives should just shut up and find some one fandom to be condescending towards.


It's fine if you want Nathan or me or anyone really to shut up. I don't want Nathan to shut up so that's why I'm asking people to please not scare him into shutting up. If you don't agree then you don't agree. However, I'm not going to shut up just because you want me to.

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Monday, March 7, 2011 5:27 AM

CHANNAIN

i DO aim to misbehave


I was actually trying to relay a basic rule of logical and intelligent argument, not be petty. If you see it as petty, then so be it. I'm going to take the passive aggressive tactic and step out.

"Whatever you say, Zeek."

This form of communication often has the tendency of bringing one into the realm of banging one's head against the wall; There's no good use for it, and often feels REALLY good when you stop.

I shan't darken your doorstep again.

Veteran of the 2002 Throes of Cancellation—FFF.net fan since January 7, 2003
Doing the impossible makes us mighty
Minnesota Browncoats
http://www.mnfirefly.com/portal/html/index.php

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Monday, March 7, 2011 8:12 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by LexiBlock:
Clearly now all he cares about is Castle. But if fans want to raise money its none of his business or is it any of yours.



And "clearly" you have something factual to base this on, as opposed to this being an over the top emotional outburst?

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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