GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Joss explains how Dollhouse IS NOT Firefly

POSTED BY: EMBERS
UPDATED: Sunday, August 10, 2008 02:34
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Monday, July 21, 2008 5:49 PM

EMBERS


this is what Joss posted at Whedonesque:
Quote:



Welcome (back) to the Dollhouse A New Pilot? A New Hope? A Prequel? A Nyquil? What's the skinny on DOLLHOUSE and why doesn't this link to anything?

Hi guys. Well, it’s been an eventful week. While all of you have been enjoying (and in some cases, suddenly NOT enjoying) our adorable little musical romp “Dr. Horrible’s Sing-Along Blog” (exclusively available on iTunes!) (And I lied about some people not enjoying it!) I’ve been busying myself with a little something I like to call DOLLHOUSE. Finishing a new episode. Finishing a new… here’s the headline… FIRST episode.

What’s that, you say? A second first? How can such a thing be? Does it defy the laws of all physics? Well, I sat down with Rutherford D. Actualperson to do a quick Q&A and give you all the skinny on the progress of my new series (Available on iTunes at some point one would assume!)

Rutherford D. Actualperson: Joss. You are a legend in the industry, and your forehead is a normal size proportionate to your face. Tell me about the idea behind doing a new first episode. Didn’t you already shoot one?

Joss: Yes, Ruhthie, I did. And it was grand, simply grand.

R.D.A: Then why shoot another? Also, your teeth are whitish.

Joss: I said it was grand, I didn’t say it was comprehensible. I showed some scenes to David Lynch and he’s all, “whuh?” Bad sign. But I kid.

The fact is, I’m very proud of the ep we shot and the series is making me crazy with the excitement. But I tend to come at things sideways, and there were a few clarity issues for some viewers. There were also some slight issues with tone – I was in a dark, noir kind of place (where, as many of you know, I make my home), and didn’t bring the visceral pop the network had expected from the script. The network was cool about it, but not sure how to come out of the gate with the ep.

R.D.A.: So they made you do another. It’s Firefly all over again! Run! For the love of God, HE’S CALLING FROM THE HOUSE!!!

Joss: Wow. Good panic.

R.D.A.: I try. But I am genuinely concerned. Also your smooth skin and elegant hands are making me bi-curious.

Joss: Well, the idea to do a new first episode wasn’t the network’s. It was mine. I understood their consternation, and saw the gap between my style and their expectations, and I suggested I shoot a new ep and make the one I’d shot the second. It isn’t going to be buried, like the pilot of Firefly. It’s simply coming after another, slightly cleaner ep. And because unlike Firefly, it isn’t a two hour epic which introduces everyone to each other, the onus isn’t on the new ep to explain a million things.

The fact is, Fox ordered the series before we shot a frame and then, after the strike, I had literally two months to write and prep the whole thing. Which means simply that the network has to figure out what they might want to tweak AFTER it was shot, unlike a pilot. Buffy didn’t make the fall sched, Angel got shut down when they saw the second ep outline… it’s birth pangs. The network truly gets the premise (this is a whole new crew, as you know), loves the cast, is excited about the show – but they’re also specific about how they want to bring people to the show and I not only respect that, I kinda have to slap my forehead that I didn’t tailor my tone and structure to the network’s needs, since that’s something I pride myself on.

R.D.A.: You’re not just being the good soldier?

Joss: We both know from years of experience that I’m a crap soldier, though I am an accomplished fan-dancer. No, this is a very cold look at what’s going on, and it’s not an Us vs Them. The truth is, I’m in love with this world, and I don’t care how people get into it. I have a million things to say about (and through) all of these characters, and I don’t mind which ones I say first. I think I just turned in a pretty cool pilot script. [Editor’s note: that means someone TOLD him THEY thought it was cool. He has no judgement of his own. This is sad, but on the plus side, it was probably one of his writers, who actually ARE cool. So rest easy.]

R.D.A.: So what does this mean for production?

Joss: We’ve pushed an extra few days so I can prep this bitch within an inch of its life, i.e., read it once more.

R.D.A.: But how will this affect the foundation of the very turning of our precious earth, and by that I mean Comiccon?

Joss: Yeah. Unfortunately, we won’t have a new teaser to show, since we’ll start shooting after the con. People will have to settle for chatting with Eliza and Tahmoh. But they’re likeable folk. (Sadly, Tahmoh only speaks Canadian, though he has a lovely translator at his side, like Isabella Rosselini in “White Nights”.) We’ll still rock the panel, but showing clips is kind of a tradition, so my emoticon doth frown.

R.D.A.: And the first first episode?

Joss: I’ll reshoot a few scenes, but it’ll basically air as is. When I was given seven episodes, I referred to them as “the Seven Pilots”, ‘cause you always have to lay out the premise one way or another in those early eps. So instead of Grumpy, this particular episode will be Sneezy. (Seriously. Eliza fights POLLEN! Sooo sexy.)

R.D.A.: So Eliza’s still a different character every week?

Joss: Often several.

R.D.A: And in the Dollhouse, the amazing-looking facility where all the beautiful people whose memories have been wiped live in a state of unselfconscious innocence, the showers are co-ed? [Editor’s note: the showers are co-ed?]

Joss: The showers are co-ed. [Editor’s note: HOT damn.]

R.D.A.: So nothing of substance has been changed. Shower-wise.

Joss: You are a sad, lonely actual man, Actualman.

R.D.A.: So true, so true. Thank you for talking/fan-dancing to me. Anything else you’d like to add?

Joss: Available exclusively on iTunes! Oh. About Dollhouse? Only that it’s going to be a funhouse ride of excitement, fear, existential angst and co-ed showers. That I love it. Love the writers, love the cast, and already blissfully live in the strange, compelling world of the removable self. Hmm. When I pitched it to Eliza, she said “My God, it’s my life!” But after that sentence, I think maybe it’s mine.

R.D.A.: I guess we’ll have to wait till January to see what you’ve cooked up.

Joss: And I’ll probably keep cooking till the moment I serve.

R.D.A.: Would you hold me?

Joss: Yes, Ruhthie. Yes I will.

[Editor’s note in Strongbad’s voice: IT’S OVER!]
joss | 03:58 CET | 29 comments total (29 new) | tags: dollhouse


New Firefly fans should check this out: http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=15816
DON'T MISS DR.HORRIBLE! Nathan Fillion sings!!!!!

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Monday, July 21, 2008 8:24 PM

TUJIAOZUO


Ah Joss, giver of the most thorough yet entertaining interviews ever

Your Indian Pirate Lord,
Ash

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Monday, July 21, 2008 8:41 PM

CHRISISALL


I am so IN!!!!

Anticipatory Chrisisall

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Tuesday, July 22, 2008 5:06 AM

EMBERS


I do wish it was coming this fall instead of in January...
but Joss said before (in a real interview) that he was happy to avoid Baseball season... and cash in on American Idol!

I'm hoping for a HUGE success!!

New Firefly fans should check this out: http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=15816
DON'T MISS DR.HORRIBLE! Nathan Fillion sings!!!!! Now only on iTunes

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Tuesday, July 22, 2008 7:21 PM

CHRISISALL


Dollhouse: the reason to get a digital TV....

Chrisisall

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Wednesday, July 23, 2008 6:22 AM

ZEEK


Joss tries his best to spin this in a good way, but it really doesn't sound good. He's created yet another show that is hard to sell because it's so different from everything else on TV.

I'm sure it will be a great show. I just doubt that he'll get the ratings required.

I think it's time for Joss to pull a Lost. Don't tell people what the show is going to be like right away. Just slowly reveal the crazy whacky world after you already sucked people in with some real world regular episodes with just a hint of something different in them.

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Wednesday, July 23, 2008 6:01 PM

PEPPERG


he should write and shoot it in reverse order- beginning w/ the show finale, so at least all will be revealed when fox cancels it after dozen plus episodes.

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Friday, July 25, 2008 3:06 AM

FLYINGTAMS


"We both know from years of experience that I’m a crap soldier"

I'd disagree, seems to me be his a great asslicker when he wants to get his stuff on. He does seem to get more selfcastrating as the years go on, killing our darlings is his sport.

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Friday, July 25, 2008 4:45 AM

EMBERS


but if it wasn't for him we wouldn't have fallen in love with the darlings he then kills off...

it is a conundrum, which I resolve by loving Joss

did you ever see the film 'Lili' (1953 starring Leslie Caron)?
She loves the puppets but fears the puppeteer... until she realizes that he is the puppets... he was the one she had fallen in love with all along.




New Firefly fans should check this out: http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=15816
DON'T MISS DR.HORRIBLE! Nathan Fillion sings!!!!! Now only available on iTunes

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Friday, July 25, 2008 9:12 AM

WHOZIT


FOX is going to put this show on before 24. I think this may be a hit now that FOX is no longger an "also ran" network. I'm really happy for Joss & Eliza, this may be a hit show.

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Monday, July 28, 2008 5:35 AM

ALMANAC


Quote:

Originally posted by whozit:
FOX is going to put this show on before 24. I think this may be a hit now that FOX is no longger an "also ran" network.



If the statement were "put this show on after 24," I might be more inclined to agree with your sentiment, but not the way things are looking now...

With no disrespect to Joss Whedon, I think we're looking at a repeat of 2002's events unfolding right now. Rather than get my hopes up, I'll wait until Dollhouse: The Complete Series is released on DVD...which should be about a year from now.

Edgar Governo
Historian of Things That Never Were
http://www.mts.net/~arphaxad/history.html

Visit the Browncoat Saloon:
http://www.myspace.com/browncoatsaloon

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Monday, July 28, 2008 6:59 AM

ZEEK


Quote:

Originally posted by Almanac:
Quote:

Originally posted by whozit:
FOX is going to put this show on before 24. I think this may be a hit now that FOX is no longger an "also ran" network.



If the statement were "put this show on after 24," I might be more inclined to agree with your sentiment, but not the way things are looking now...

With no disrespect to Joss Whedon, I think we're looking at a repeat of 2002's events unfolding right now. Rather than get my hopes up, I'll wait until Dollhouse: The Complete Series is released on DVD...which should be about a year from now.


I agree that putting it before 24 is more likely to make it a death slot. The network will complain that the poor ratings are hurting 24's ratings and make it even more of a reason to yank the show.

Yes, I'm assuming poor ratings.

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Friday, August 1, 2008 6:03 PM

BARBIEMBT


Poor Josh has not learned a thing. He is still working with FOX and expects his new project, Dollhouse, will make it on that network. No ne of any consequence ever watches FOX, especially any diehard Sci-Fi fan. Yes, FOX’s viewership is better than in 2002, but not by much. I seriously believe the entire reason FireFly failed was because it was on FOX. I have been a BIG Sci-Fi fan since the first Star Trek came out when I was six-years old. I read and watch EVERYTHING Sci-Fi and never even heard of Firefly until after the movie came out. I do not know how I missed it in the theatres, but I did. Of course I now own the entire DVD collection including the movie. But if Josh seriously believes Dollhouse will make it on FOX; he is going to be seriously disappointed. Wasn’t it Einstein who said that the definition of stupidity (or was it insanity?) was to repeat the same thing over and over again and expect a different result?

Barbiembt

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Monday, August 4, 2008 12:29 PM

PHOENIXSHIP


Quote:

Originally posted by Zeek:
Quote:

Originally posted by Almanac:
Quote:

Originally posted by whozit:
FOX is going to put this show on before 24. I think this may be a hit now that FOX is no longger an "also ran" network.



If the statement were "put this show on after 24," I might be more inclined to agree with your sentiment, but not the way things are looking now...

With no disrespect to Joss Whedon, I think we're looking at a repeat of 2002's events unfolding right now. Rather than get my hopes up, I'll wait until Dollhouse: The Complete Series is released on DVD...which should be about a year from now.


I agree that putting it before 24 is more likely to make it a death slot. The network will complain that the poor ratings are hurting 24's ratings and make it even more of a reason to yank the show.

Yes, I'm assuming poor ratings.



Oh crap. Oh crap. Network TV destroys everything it touches. I can't even bring myself to care anymore. I'm starting to not like FOX.

"Why're you arguin' what's already been decided?"
Mal to Jayne, "Jaynestown"

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Tuesday, August 5, 2008 4:56 AM

LISSA


Do you guys seriously think Joss has "not learned a thing?" I don't know about you, but he seems pretty smart to me...
Maybe instead of being negative we could show our support and excitement for the show? This is a great time: Joss back on TV! And the internet! This is a GOOD THING.
Getting a show on tv is not like choosing where to eat at the food court. Joss took his show where he could, and that was Fox.
So suppress your fear, enjoy the ride, and WATCH DOLLHOUSE! Not on dvd, but on Fox, when it airs. Yeah, it hurts if a show is cancelled. Believe me, I know. But isn't falling in love with a new Joss show worth the risk?

~lissa, retired spwhore

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Tuesday, August 5, 2008 6:13 AM

EMMARIGBY


I agree. There have been so many shows that I loved that have been cancelled. I never once thought 'oh god, I wish I'd never bothered watching that'. It's better to have loved Joss shows and lost them ....
I'll be there enjoying the ride and trying not to think that it could get ripped out from under us any minute.
Of course, being a Brit, I'll probably only get a chance to start watching it after it's been cancelled (but enough of this negativity! There's always downloads)

___________________
Hissssssssss!

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Friday, August 8, 2008 5:34 PM

PHOENIXSHIP


Quote:

Originally posted by lissa:
Do you guys seriously think Joss has "not learned a thing?" I don't know about you, but he seems pretty smart to me...
Maybe instead of being negative we could show our support and excitement for the show? This is a great time: Joss back on TV! And the internet! This is a GOOD THING.
Getting a show on tv is not like choosing where to eat at the food court. Joss took his show where he could, and that was Fox.
So suppress your fear, enjoy the ride, and WATCH DOLLHOUSE! Not on dvd, but on Fox, when it airs. Yeah, it hurts if a show is cancelled. Believe me, I know. But isn't falling in love with a new Joss show worth the risk?

~lissa, retired spwhore



Whoa! I didn't say anything about our Joss not learning a thing... Hope I didn't copy that in my message!

It's not that I doubt him, just that I have learned to never underestimate the ignorance of American Network TV Execs. I don't trust them. Having said that, of course I will be watching...

You must admit the parallels to The Firefly Incident are unsettling. And I am comforted by Joss' words. I don't think he's the type to lie, even when it might be to protect his new baby.

"Why're you arguin' what's already been decided?"
Mal to Jayne, "Jaynestown"

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Friday, August 8, 2008 6:16 PM

OUT2THEBLACK


Quote:

Originally posted by lissa:
Do you guys seriously think Joss has "not learned a thing?" I don't know about you, but he seems pretty smart to me...
Maybe instead of being negative we could show our support and excitement for the show? This is a great time: Joss back on TV! And the internet! This is a GOOD THING.
Getting a show on tv is not like choosing where to eat at the food court. Joss took his show where he could, and that was Fox.
So suppress your fear, enjoy the ride, and WATCH DOLLHOUSE! Not on dvd, but on Fox, when it airs. Yeah, it hurts if a show is cancelled. Believe me, I know. But isn't falling in love with a new Joss show worth the risk?

~lissa, retired spwhore



ALL good points , LISSA !

Thanks for the Browncoat optimism and positivity , mei-mei...

Just one thing , though , that folk oughta keep in mind...

This is REALLY Eliza's Deal , just that she CHOSE Joss as her concept guy and show runner , which shows how smart SHE is...

Beautiful AND Smart...Now THAT ain't ever gettin' old !

Er , whatza 'spwhore' , if you don't mind my askin' ?

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Saturday, August 9, 2008 3:42 AM

WHOZIT


Quote:

Originally posted by Phoenixship:
Quote:

Originally posted by Zeek:
Quote:

Originally posted by Almanac:
Quote:

Originally posted by whozit:
FOX is going to put this show on before 24. I think this may be a hit now that FOX is no longger an "also ran" network.



If the statement were "put this show on after 24," I might be more inclined to agree with your sentiment, but not the way things are looking now...

With no disrespect to Joss Whedon, I think we're looking at a repeat of 2002's events unfolding right now. Rather than get my hopes up, I'll wait until Dollhouse: The Complete Series is released on DVD...which should be about a year from now.


I agree that putting it before 24 is more likely to make it a death slot. The network will complain that the poor ratings are hurting 24's ratings and make it even more of a reason to yank the show.

Yes, I'm assuming poor ratings.



Oh crap. Oh crap. Network TV destroys everything it touches. I can't even bring myself to care anymore. I'm starting to not like FOX.

"Why're you arguin' what's already been decided?"
Mal to Jayne, "Jaynestown"

Many were saying the same about Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicals, season 2 is a go. This show may not get American Idol ratings (Also on FOX) but it may do well enough to find a core audiance like Prison Break, T:TSCC and BONES to keep it on for several seasons. Keep the faith!

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Saturday, August 9, 2008 4:59 PM

LISSA


PheonixShip, sorry if you thought I was directing that all at you. I just clicked reply on the last post. It was directed at the general negativity of the thread, not at one person.

~lissa

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Saturday, August 9, 2008 5:43 PM

PHOENIXSHIP


Quote:

Originally posted by lissa:
PheonixShip, sorry if you thought I was directing that all at you. I just clicked reply on the last post. It was directed at the general negativity of the thread, not at one person.

~lissa



Oh, that's okay... Your dose of optimism was good for me. I gotta remember that the alternative is No Joss, No Eliza, No Buffy, etc. That will not do! While I can't completely dismiss my fears, I am NOT going to let it stop me from watching DH. Imagine if we are on the verge of another 7 year stretch? I happened upon Buffy and Angel during hmmm, season 4, I think? I still wish I could have watched every episode in order from the very beginning. I plan to treat my daughter to that when she's about 13? Is that too young?

Woops, off thread here... I liked Terminator, but like every other show on TV that's not written/produced by Joss, I find the characters to be two-dimensional. It's encouraging that Fox at least let this show run a second season. Maybe this will all turn out okay.......

"Why're you arguin' what's already been decided?"
Mal to Jayne, "Jaynestown"

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Saturday, August 9, 2008 6:46 PM

OUT2THEBLACK


Ni Hao , Lissa !

Er , whatza 'spwhore' , if you don't mind my askin' ?

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Saturday, August 9, 2008 8:46 PM

KAYNA

I love my captain


O2B I believe a spwhore is a space whore.

As to SCC, that just depresses me. FOX gave Firefly less than a full season and that piece of mediocrity gets a go for season 2. I gave it a go for Summer's sake (gotta support our BDHs) but honestly, I can't stand the thing. I don't mean to upset anyone, I just don't like it.

Anyway, Dollhouse! I love the concept and the folks involved so I'll be watching, and hoping for a hit.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



Op: You're fighting a war you've already lost.
Mal: Yeah, well I'm known for that.

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Sunday, August 10, 2008 2:34 AM

WHOZIT


This show of course will not be like Firefly, but it wo'nt be like Eliza's last show Tru Calling. This show will be good for Joss, but it'll be great for Eliza, she'll be able to play different charters that may get her nominated for an Emmy and maybe some film roles. Plus since this show will be different from anything else on TV, it may lead to more projects for Joss. FOX got Joss to come back, if this show does well, (It will) FOX will be kissing his ass for years to come.

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