GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Passed through the storm ~ message from 11th Hour

POSTED BY: 11THHOUR
UPDATED: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 15:43
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 23951
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Thursday, November 2, 2006 10:34 PM

SERYN


Thank the heavens its over, and you coped brilliantly.
Go rest, and spoil yourself, you deserve it, and as for everyone being there for you - its one thing you can take for granted.

Isn't sanity really a one trick pony, anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking! But when you're good and crazy...ooh hoo hoo hoo... the skys the limit!
http://www.myspace.com/seryndippyt

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Friday, November 3, 2006 3:32 AM

FIREFLYGAL


Browncoats are not always on the losing side. Way to go 11th Hour!

I aim to misbehave!

Firefly items:
For lapel pins and badge holder lanyards
e-mail FireflyGal1@hotmail.com
www.outtotheblack.com
www.cafepress.com/fillies
www.cafepress.com/mssquarepeg.com
www.cafepress.com/mrsquarepeg.com

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Friday, November 3, 2006 10:40 AM

SAMEERTIA


Excellent news, 11thHour!

I am so glad this was resolved! YAY!!!!
You have been our rock, and our inspiration, and the thought that you were being hounded for your expression of your love for Firefly made me furious.

Here's to you, and all of your hard work, your beautiful creations, and your love for Firefly.

And here's to those lawyers who looked past the misunderstanding and worked through it!





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Friday, November 3, 2006 12:19 PM

2X2


That is great!
I am sooo happy for you! Congratulations!

It is the best of possible outcomes and I know everyone of us is ecstatic to hear this...

*hugs*

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Friday, November 3, 2006 1:01 PM

LILLYBELLA


Glad it worked out for you.. That is a great relief.

Lillybella

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Friday, November 3, 2006 1:12 PM

JAYNESBOWIE


Great to hear 11th hour! :) Take a nice rest and drink plenty of water, cause thats what you should always do, with loads of ice in it. :)

We'll be here when you wake up.

Signature:

Jayne: "Testing, testing. Captain, can you hear me?"
Mal: "I'm standing right here."
Jayne: "You're coming through good and loud."
Mal: " 'Cause I'm standing right here."

If you play nationstates.net check out the region Firefly.

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Friday, November 3, 2006 1:37 PM

SERENITYINSCOTLAND


This is great news!
I'm very happy you passed through the storm!!

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Friday, November 3, 2006 2:32 PM

FUTUREMRSFILLION


*FMF does the "happyhappyjoyjoydance"*


----
Bestower of Titles, Designer of Tshirts, Maker of Mottos, Keeper of the Pyre

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

FORSAKEN original


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Friday, November 3, 2006 2:41 PM

ASORTAFAIRYTALE


YAY!
I'm very glad that you're okay now 11th Hour!


---------
Love keeps her in the air when she outta fall down, tells you she's hurting before she keels. Makes her a home.


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Friday, November 3, 2006 2:54 PM

KELAI


Congratulations 11th, yay for browncoats :)

--
//breathe today So many lies s w i r l i n g
All A R O U N D You
you're S U F F O C A T I N G
the e m p t y shape in Y O U
s t e a l s your b r e a t h

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Friday, November 3, 2006 3:21 PM

TRAVELER


Hello 11th Hour:

This is a good sign. Cooperation and good will. I hope this brings you a lot of well deserved good fortune. Browncoats need to hear about triumphs like this. I sit here and look at all the wonderful posts and realise just what I have become a member of. I have not been a member of this site very long, but it is becoming a very comfortable place to a part of.

I have friends who have their own businesses and I know from talking to them it is not easy. They could work for others with less stress and more security, but they want to be independent. It is that spirit that Browncoats understand so well from watching Firefly.

I'm glad to have been here to see this moment.



Congratulations
Traveler

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Friday, November 3, 2006 4:00 PM

UNICORN


11th Hour, I'm a lurker who's really glad you came through. I love you, Browncoats! You guys give me hope, too!


There is no such thing as a weed.


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Sunday, November 5, 2006 8:04 PM

HANDSOF


Whew! Glad to hear you were able to work out something that didn't involve you paying massive quantities of money to Universal. Look forward to more of your original art.

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Monday, November 6, 2006 12:42 AM

STINKINGROSE


....aaaaaaaand, BREATHE!!!
Scary all done! Happiness ensues!
The adrenaline rush should wear off in a few months.

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Monday, November 6, 2006 7:55 AM

LADYSERENITY


Congrats 11th Hour! I am glad that it all worked out for you and you can finally let out that deep breath. Thanks for all the work you've done and the wonderful artwork that keeps us fans flyin'
Shiny!



Once you've been in Serenity you never leave. You find a way to live in it.

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Monday, November 6, 2006 6:43 PM

GOINGTOTHESPECIALHELL


Darlin' It sure is nice to know things worked out for ya, and even nicer to know our support helped ya get through this.
I agree this is a bit of a wakeup call for us, but more importantly this is a wakeup call to them, that while we play fair and civil, we don't lie down, and we aren't afraid. well we are afraid, but we don't let that stop us. Because thats what we do I guess, we keep moving. You know what they say
If you can't run, crawl and if you can't do that.
You find someone to carry you.

We carry one another in times like these most of all don't we?

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Tuesday, November 7, 2006 12:31 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


11th hour.... I am thrilled that you no longer have to suffer at the hands of the tyrranical beast and owner of our 'verse on paper. May you have many nights of undisturbed slumber ahead of you. You truly diserve it, and I can only imagine what you must have been going through while you were subjected to such a lowly stab in the back by a former friend and ally. May there be nothing but serenity in your verse while your nerves recover.

And CONGRATULATIONS BROWNCOATS!!!

Our voice has been heard!!!

Don't, for a second, fall prey to the silver tounges of the lawyers of the beast and their conjured up stories of misunderstandings and other such nonsense. More importantly, never forget what you've just witnessed in the last couple of weeks. FOX has shown us that Universal is not the only corporation capable of such bully tactics financially and morally. A company as large as Universal didn't get that large for being fools. There should be no doubt that a company that size would pay employees to surf message boards regarding their products and see what fans like and what they don't like. This ability that the internet brings them is simply free market analysis (minus the labor costs), and a huge corporations wet dream. They no doubt heard the Browncoats outcry against this injustice.

The theory that the lawyers at Universal may be the left hand that the right hand of Universal has no idea what they are doing could very well hold water, but this is no excuse and the corporation as a whole should be held accountable for such outrageous actions. Our voice was heard on message boards throught the 'verse and they realized what a large mistake they made, and how this could possibly end up blowing up in their faces. It would seem now that the P.R. departments have gotten involved and are doing their damndest to cover this all up.

I do not want to ruin the celebration here, so let me just end this by saying I am deeply and genuinely happy that 11th Hour is no longer playing their martyr and I am very proud of my fellow Browncoats for standing along by 11th's side through their darkest of times. This is truly something special that you don't see very often outside of our verse.

This was not about a little mistake of verbiage Browncoats. This was a battle, and we won! Whether they want to admit it or not is on thier souls... but then again, we are talking about lawyers.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Tuesday, November 7, 2006 2:31 PM

PINGJING


I'm sorry for everything you've been through, 11thHour, but there is definitely something good that has come out of all this. I don't come around these parts much anymore, and so I hadn't heard of your site. I just went to check it out, and I LOVE it. In fact, I'm ordering something right now. Thanks for putting all of these wonderful things together!
Julia

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Friday, November 10, 2006 5:45 PM

UNSARDONIC


Hi 11th-dahling...

So, I scanned down this thread & saw lots of congrats-'n-such but... I was wondering...

Had you never thought to go slightly beyond "guerilla-marketing" and simply go legitimate, that is, get together with the Universal marketing people, explain the depth of demand for Serenity items & why you managed to offer the marketplace things they wanted & then... sign-on to pay the royalties they want to turn you into a (the word is...) "licensee?"

I mean, I realize there's "official" Firefly merchandise wherein our BDJoss gets a nickel for the things they sell but, frankly... their selection-offering - last time I checked anyway - was flat pathetic compared to yours... a couple of bland t-shirts... who cares, eh? How is that kind of unfocused merchandising going to help spread the word of the 'Verse to the uninitiated? That IS the point of merchandising after all - spread the word so that people-who-aren't-already-in-the-choir can get preached-to about the lovely show we all love and they've never heard about.

It seems to me, if Universal hasn't locked themselves into an exclusive arrangement with their "official" merchandiser, it would only serve their own interests to allow another one (or 2) (or 3) (etc) - one with a track-record of innovation that Uni's current merchandiser hasn't been able to match - to bring her goodies to a, hopefully, ever-increasingly eager marketplace.

Any thoughts along those lines?

Yours truly from a person who's friends have sometimes accused him of being a "stupid, inbred stack of meat."

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Friday, November 10, 2006 6:41 PM

SIRI


Congratulations - rest well.

Siri

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Sunday, November 12, 2006 9:23 PM

THEDANA


Hay 11th, I'm so happy to hear that you're ok and that things worked out without ruining you. Sorry I haven't been around to comment earlier or to stick by you, RL getting in the way of my VL, which sucks.. but it happens.

Anyway, really happy to hear things are good and that you're ok! Sorry that you had to go through this but being a talented gal like you these things around bound to happen to make things hard, but it motivates and you come out stronger on the other side of it.

big hugs to ya! And congrats! :D


http://dana.thedudes.nu/gallery/ http://dana.thedudes.nu/chosenart/

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Sunday, November 12, 2006 9:52 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


So.... how goes the sleeping? You feel better now?

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Sunday, November 12, 2006 11:36 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Congrats. You now rank with Sarah Michelle Geller, who holds the world record as the youngest person sued in US history, when McDonalds sued her and Burger King for saying the word "charbroiled", implying it was better than fried in its own rusty fat.

Quote:


VIDEO: Sarah Michelle Gellar Burger King



Gellar was the first person to ever mention a competitor's name (McDonald's) in her 1982 Burger King commercial. McDonald's sued Burger King and four-year-old Gellar.
http://advertising.about.com/od/gellarsarahmichelle/p/sarahmgellar.htm



As for merely using the word "Serenity", tell them to fuk off. Presumably, you already believed you were following The Law, using Due Diligence. I didn't see anything wrong with your products violating copyright. If anything, they are violating YOUR copyright, since you were first! If you believe you were right, then stand your ground. Call their bluff. They will have to pay their lawyers $500/hour, which even Universal is too cheap to do on frivolous cases. And Universal would have to pay your legal expenses, including paying your attorney fees, when you win on motion for summary judgement. So it would not be hard to find you a lawyer, since that's a slam dunk paycheck for them.

Many collection agencies illegally claim to be law firms (practicing law without a license, and other crimes), and use illegal tactics to bluff the sheeple out of money they don't owe. When a collection agency makes a claim by letter, the recipient has 30 days to demand proof of the alleged debt, by certified letter of the original contract. 72 hours is BS, which is a fraud that most municipal courts do with parking tickets that also lack personal service of process, to trick the sheeple into volunteering for "personal jurisdiction" of the so-called court. This scam sounds a little like "Universal's" tactic. Or it could be a scammer claiming to be Universal, to extort some lunch money. Are other Cafepressers getting this extortion email? Is like the Nigerian Scam, that got that Tennessee preacher's wife to shoot and kill her husband?

You can also countersue for your personal time and expertise promoting their products (Firefly & Sernity), since "Universal" is attempting to enter into a contract with you. That means you get to rewrite and renegiate that contract anyway you want. Presuming this really is a real "Rule 68 Offer of Settlement" (Federal Rules of Civil Procedure) from real lawyers really working for Universal. If you don't email them back (or discuss in public forum), then their is no proof of personal service of process, as required by Rule 4.
www.law.cornell.edu/rules/frcp/

"Donations" for free guerilla art bypass copyright problems.

Sometimes these big shots (or their flunky lawyers) get swelled heads, and falsely allege they own the entire English (and Chinese) language:

Quote:


Gol-LY! Andy Griffith sues Andy Griffith

November 11, 2006

MILWAUKEE, Wisconsin (AP) -- Forget the small-town belief in letting bygones be bygones.

The star of "The Andy Griffith Show," who portrayed the sheriff of the fictional town of Mayberry, has sued a Wisconsin man who unsuccessfully ran for the Grant County post after legally changing his name to Andrew Jackson Griffith.

The lawsuit, filed November 3 in U.S. District Court in Madison, alleges that William Harold Fenrick, 42, violated trademark and copyright laws, as well as the privacy of actor Andy Samuel Griffith, when he used his new name to promote his candidacy for sheriff in southwestern Wisconsin.

The lawsuit says the former Fenrick changed his name for the "sole purpose of taking advantage of Griffith's notoriety in an attempt to gain votes." It asks the court to order him to go back to his original name.

The actor's lawsuit also asks Griffith to publish disclaimers and an apology in Grant County newspapers that say he has no association with the actor. It seeks unspecified damages and court fees.

Griffith described the lawsuit as "incredibly absurd" and said he does not think people actually believe he is the actor.

"For such an American icon, it's a pretty un-American thing to do to me," said Griffith, who has about three weeks to respond to the filing.

etc blah blah barf

www.cnn.com/2006/SHOWBIZ/TV/11/11/andy.griffith.ap/index.html?eref=rss
_law



I got similar complaint emails from Cafepress at my store, regarding my original artwork. Somebody copyrighted/TMed the word "CAUTION", apparently. So I replaced it with the word "WARNING", and it was okay. Cafepress are wimps who never defend their puny indy stores against multinational corporate bullys. It may have nothing to do with store owners being wrong.
www.cafepress.com/piratenews

Or perhaps this is because I posted your guerilla art on my website at Pirate News TV???
www.piratenews.org/video-archive.html


"You can't stop the signal! Unless Universal says so."
-Mr Universe, Pirate TV

FIREFLY SERENITY PILOT MUSIC VIDEO V2
Tangerine Dream - Thief Soundtrack: Confrontation
http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2006/03/8912.php
www.myspace.com/piratenewsctv
www.piratenews.org


Does that seem right to you?
www.scifi.com/onair/

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Monday, November 13, 2006 12:44 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Hey Piratenews...

You seem to know your law. I definately would have appreciated your presence a few weeks back when I was holding a discussion on this topic. You seem like my kind of people. I'll be checking out your website now that I know about it. You looking for any employees? I'd love to work a job that I actually have a great deal of passion for.

Here's the thread if you wanna take a read. It's called "I will not wear Firefly as if it were a Nike symbol on my chest."

I'll have to let you know what I think of your site.




"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Monday, November 13, 2006 1:26 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Hey Piratenews...

You seem to know your law. I definately would have appreciated your presence a few weeks back when I was holding a discussion on this topic. You seem like my kind of people. I'll be checking out your website now that I know about it. You looking for any employees? I'd love to work a job that I actually have a great deal of passion for.

I'll have to let you know what I think of your site.


"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack



"Indy" is translated as "virtually unemployed" and disabled, fighting 7 years for disability insurance benefits versus 1,000s of corrupt govt trial lawyers. When I started that fight, I knew nothing about law, and made the mistake of trusting lawyers, thus making "fatal" legal mistakes on paperwork. Uncle Scam is NOT here to help! So no jobs, just "internships".

What you can do is start your own cable access TV show in your town, and broadcast my TV shows on your network. We need about 10,000 cable access affiliates in my Pirate News Network. Our buisness plan includes 100% market share of Truth programming, since the Media Mafia is only capable of pathological lies, and has abdicated the playing field. There's a whole New World Truth out there, waiting to be capitalized. Pirate FM Radio is also very powerful, when used for Truth.

Cafepress is useful for zero overhead, but sales are dead on the web, unless you buy inventory for resale face-to-face with customers. That's where it gets interestin.

"You can't stop the signal! You'll be hearin from my lawyer!"
-Mr Universe, Pirate TV

FIREFLY SERENITY PILOT MUSIC VIDEO V2
Tangerine Dream - Thief Soundtrack: Confrontation
http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2006/03/8912.php
www.myspace.com/piratenewsctv
www.piratenews.org


Does that seem right to you?
www.scifi.com/onair/

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Monday, November 13, 2006 1:50 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Yeah... I figured as much. Nobody who has any money has a lick of interest in the truth... either sayin' it or believin' it. My old man is paying child support for my 23 year old man-child brother because he's supposedly disabled to the point he can't work. I won't go into the stupid details. My question with the whole thing is, since my mom can't get the state to legitimatize his disability and grant him social security, why does my dad have to foot the $800+ dollars a month to support him. There's a whole lot more to that story that I don't feel the need to get into in this forum, but it's all a bunch of whiney feminist bullshit. I'll admit that there are a ton of deadbeat dads out there, but my father was always there for us and my mom is abusing the legal system so she can sink her talons into him for the rest of his life. She doesn't even need the money, and he's got two kids of his own now that he's got to try to put through college soon.

I also have two friends that had DUI problems. The one with five grand for a lawyer had actually smashed and destroyed his car and a parked car 3 blocks away from his house and he walked away virtually unschathed in court. My other friend doesn't have a pot to piss in and the DA let him lose his license for a year, which he subsequently lost again when he was caught driving to work without it. All that particular friend had been guilty of (besides having a little alcahol on the breath as the cop found out after pulling him over) was driving with a busted tail light when he left the bar.

Justice goes to the highest bidder.

That is... if you're uneducated. Glad to see you took up arms yourself and got yourself educated. I hope it worked out for you and I am interested in learning more about your organization. I feel like I'm surrounded by people who are perfectly content with getting walked on and herded around everyday and it's nice to know that there are people out there that do more than just talk about it like I do, although I've always thought that at least talking about it was better than doing nothing at all. There's no denying that I'm probably not the most fun guy talk to at the parties.

Anyways... lawyers suck and courts suck and justice is non-existant for anybody in my price range who isn't fond of getting their ass into a heap of debt they can never pay off.

Don't even know how to get started with a cable station. I'm assuming that that takes quite a bit of money, and I'm afraid that I'm in short supply of that. I do, however, have a good deal of free time... don't know what that's worth. I'll be keeping in touch. My name is Mark, by the way... it's nice to meet you.


"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Monday, November 13, 2006 12:58 PM

11THHOUR


Been tending to my life, which was seriously thrown off its tracks by the adventure through the looking glass with Universal's law firm. Finally have a bit of a breather to check in instead of my fly bys of late...

So many wonderful posts. Does my heart good to read all the words of support, and shared relief that sanity was finally restored and the matter was quietly concluded. I know it was due to "people of influence" making behind the scenes calls on my behalf. This time my angels did soar overhead and rain fire down on those... well, y'all know the colorful description that follows...

There's no way to answer every post, though I would like to, but I want everyone to know that I have been reading them. It's meant so much to me to see so many shiny folk express such loyalty and spirit. Browncoats shine their brightest when they band together for a cause they believe in. It was somethin' to see... and a reminder of how readily we can rise together when the need presents itself.

There was a recent post here that brought up some questions which relate to the relationship of the fans to Universal and the subject of fan made merchandise overall. So since it is a subject still up in the air and on our minds, thought it would be good to reply....

Quote:

Originally posted by Unsardonic:
Hi 11th-dahling...

So, I scanned down this thread & saw lots of congrats-'n-such but... I was wondering...

Had you never thought to go slightly beyond "guerilla-marketing" and simply go legitimate, that is, get together with the Universal marketing people, explain the depth of demand for Serenity items & why you managed to offer the marketplace things they wanted & then... sign-on to pay the royalties they want to turn you into a (the word is...) "licensee?"



I have nothing against being a legit licensee, however it does involve more than just signing on. I've discussed the matter with an actual real life licensee, and such an arrangement requires an upfront payment of lots, and lots, of cashy money from the prospective licensee. Plus, a major studio like Universal is more interested in dealing with a company that handles large quantities and big sales, otherwise it simply isn't worth Universal's time. There are expenses they incur when setting up a contract with a licensee, initial and ongoing expenses, and an individual isn't likely to generate the revenue required to make it worth their while.

As far as working with them in a promotional capacity, then that goes more into becoming employed by them, which is a whole 'nother matter. They could possibly set up the agreement as an independent contractor thing... but again, they would need to recognize this as a good business move. Serenity is a project in a holding pattern right now and they would need to make a conscious decision that they want to revitalize their support for it. Absent some announcement, Universal seems to be content to stay in a "wait and see" mode and let the fans continue to do promotion, at the fans' time and expense. Although with the recent heavy handed legal attack, it's bound to leave fans very wary about doing any activity which involves using copyrighted materal. And it's really really hard to promote something if you can't use the name.

Just because my particular case was resolved doesn't mean this is all over. We still don't know what Universal's new stance is regarding their intellectual property. I have received no communication from Universal, and apparently no official statement has been made. Believe me gang, you don't want to find out the hard way that you've stepped on their copyright toes.

I was in this fandom long before there was any licensed merchandise. The way that fans had t-shirts to spread the word was to make our own. It was the Wild West. When something needed to get done, we did it ourselves... and we did a great job. But the landscape has changed. Lawyers moved into town and the frontier got all civilized, less fun, less free, and more dangerous. We gotta tread carefully now. We can still spread the word and do the good work, but there's a different set of rules now.

Quote:

I mean, I realize there's "official" Firefly merchandise wherein our BDJoss gets a nickel for the things they sell but, frankly... their selection-offering - last time I checked anyway - was flat pathetic compared to yours... a couple of bland t-shirts... who cares, eh? How is that kind of unfocused merchandising going to help spread the word of the 'Verse to the uninitiated? That IS the point of merchandising after all - spread the word so that people-who-aren't-already-in-the-choir can get preached-to about the lovely show we all love and they've never heard about.


Yup. I get the impression that the folks with the t-shirt licenses are not clued into the whole promotional spirit of the Browncoats. The designs offered are the standard logo-on-t-shirt, with a few other designs that, though well intentioned, seem more to be done from an outsider's point of view rather than from the way a true fan sees the 'verse.

These companies are big production vendors and the Serenity merchandise is just one small part of their wares. When merchandise is created by true fans there's' a noticeable difference.

We're in a catch 22 situation here. The companies which can afford licenses (and are entities which Universal is familiar with) aren't necessarily people who know how to really design for the FF/S fans. The FF/S fans who really know how to make kick-ass designs that would sell, can't afford the licenses.

Quote:

It seems to me, if Universal hasn't locked themselves into an exclusive arrangement with their "official" merchandiser, it would only serve their own interests to allow another one (or 2) (or 3) (etc) - one with a track-record of innovation that Uni's current merchandiser hasn't been able to match - to bring her goodies to a, hopefully, ever-increasingly eager marketplace.

Any thoughts along those lines?



Oh yeah... thoughts on this subject run 'round my brain quite often. There's a great opportunity here, plus a potential revenue bonanza, that's being missed by Universal. Instead of using legal action to stomp on those who really know how to design for the fans, how 'bout, oh I don't know, maybe join forces with them and then everybody wins? The fans get licensed merchandise which finally "speaks" to them, the designers can work openly, be paid their fair earnings, and have full access to copyright images legitimately, while Universal starts really making some serious coin with this invigorated, fresh approach.

When given a reasonable avenue in which to do things legitimately, the fans will take that route when creating their wares. It's just the structure has to be reworked to make it possible for individuals, not just deep pocket companies, to share in this creative outlet and revenue stream. As it stands now there's a big gate in between the creative fan community and the "License to create without getting crushed by lawyers" realm.

I am making some preliminary calls (not to the studios yet, to "others") to formulate a plan which would allow fans to create official merchandise for Serenity, and perhaps Firefly if 20th Century Fox is up for it. There are a lot of things to consider in this arrangement, so I'm gathering as much data as I can. You did bring up a point that was on my mind too... there are some official t-shirt licensees already in place so we don't know yet if there is even room to create an additional portal for fan created official merchandise. It will depend on whether there is an exclusivity clause in place, or if some of the existing licenses will be expiring in the near future.

I'll keep y'all informed as soon as I know more.

Quote:

Yours truly from a person who's friends have sometimes accused him of being a "stupid, inbred stack of meat."



Tell your friends they have seriously underestimated the cognitive abilities and imagination of a stupid, inbred stack of meat.


11th Hour

>>>}———————————————)))======<[]>======(((———————————————{<<<

"Because teenage pranks are fun when you're about to die!" - Hoban Washburne

Firefly/Serenity Guerilla Marketing Posters ~ http://the11thhour.home.att.net
Cafe Press Shop ~ http://www.cafepress.com/11thhourart


Spread the word today ~ Give the gift of Firefly: http://www.apple.com/itunes

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Monday, November 13, 2006 11:05 PM

AGATSU


:)

I'm so into Firefly, my butt glows in the dark. And in the dark is where I am, lurking.
Which is somewhat stupid, considering my glowing butt.

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Monday, November 13, 2006 11:52 PM

DESKTOPHIPPIE


Really glad to hear it all worked out for you. You've done so much for us and our crew. Take care, and have a relaxing week this week!




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Wednesday, November 15, 2006 9:03 PM

EVENTIDE


I'm glad you've made it through this mess okay. Had to have been nasty scary.... *shudder*

But...I hope this prompts people to be more aware of copyright laws. Too many people ignore them and then become indignant and feel like they're being personally attacked when bad things happen as a result. It sounds like your problem was more of a misunderstanding than anything, but I see things like this happen all too often. I just hope people learned a lot from this.

Sorry you had to be the "example" for Universal. :-[ And again, I'm glad it's over and that you're okay.

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Friday, November 17, 2006 4:16 PM

UNSARDONIC


Hi 11th-Sweetie

Sorry to take so long to notice ...ANYone's reply, really, not just yours... although it does seem like you're a busy girl after all so, I figger you'll understand.

Thanks very much for your amazingly well-thought-out reply to my li'l ol' queries. I reached the conclusion - just before the part where you said you were in contact with some (unspecified) folks - that you OBVIOUSLY, even... SUPER-obviously(!)... were the right girl for this particular job.

Man... for the amount of effort you've made ...on behalf of the 'Verse, your fellow Browncoats, Joss Whedon himself... you seriously deserve to win the Big Picture in this fight. And, after reading how much thought, preparation and... not-to-mention the sheer deVOtion... you've put into your effort... I had reached the conclusion that "folk" you ought to be in contact with is Joss, himself, if only his most immediate "people"... his lawyer, manager, etc... It occured to me that your effort has been visionary enough (even if we are only talking about mugs and bumper-stickers) that a (fellow-)visionary (such as our BDJoss) might really resonate with... all your effort and dedication - and KNOWLEDGE(!)

Can you think of anyone who might be more influential with the Uni esquires than he, himself? ...I mean, presuming the whole "exclusivity clause" issue isn't really an issue.

Anyway... that's what I was going to suggest to you and then, I read on in your letter about how you were already in contact with the (unspecified) peeps... one can only imagine but, I'll tell ya - I'd SO love to hear that you had the audacity to get hold of Joss somehow... I mean, if you can actually engineer a coup over - or even, [u[with - the Uni esquires... ...well, this would remind of the scene (in the BDM) where the crew is all lined-up and Cappy addresses them with the line, "I mean to confound these bastards"... at least I think that's how he said it. Anyway, 'confound 'em, Eleven,' you deserve the win

After all, I want the license-plate holder ...

...and it'd just be very shiny for me if Joss actually got a nickel for it...

I'd like to figure out a cute little way to use my "stupid, inbred stack of meat" signature but, apparently, despite your sweet complement, I du, in fact, seem to be too much of a "stupid, inbred stack of meat" to figure one out so, to quote our Caligovernator, "Hasta la vista, baby"

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Friday, November 17, 2006 4:24 PM

UNSARDONIC


Quote:

Tell your friends they have seriously underestimated the cognitive abilities and imagination of a stupid, inbred stack of meat.



Oh believe me - I DO! ...but do they listen(?), in the immortal word of John Belushi (on SNL), "NO-OO-Oo-oooooo...."

...and then I take the time to remind them of the staggeringly overpowering nature of my charisma and how, I can tell, they're far too much in thrall of it to have heard a single word I've said...

...and then I tell 'em, "Well, with friends like you who needs enemas? HAH! Can't answer that one can ya, HUH?!?"

Be overpowered by my charisma or all'y'all "friends will think you're a stupid, inbred stack of meat."

...whew... I knew I had one in me someplace...

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Sunday, January 28, 2007 1:05 PM

RUNA27


Quote:

I am making some preliminary calls (not to the studios yet, to "others") to formulate a plan which would allow fans to create official merchandise for Serenity, and perhaps Firefly if 20th Century Fox is up for it. There are a lot of things to consider in this arrangement, so I'm gathering as much data as I can. You did bring up a point that was on my mind too... there are some official t-shirt licensees already in place so we don't know yet if there is even room to create an additional portal for fan created official merchandise. It will depend on whether there is an exclusivity clause in place, or if some of the existing licenses will be expiring in the near future.

I'll keep y'all informed as soon as I know more.



You know... I have a crazy idea. A probably VERY crazy idea, but I can't help having it.

I recently had a day of jury duty (don't worry, this story has a point that connects to this!). Now, in my area, they don't pay much for jury duty, but they DO pay you, if you fill out the lil' form thing, which I did since I was damned I was going to get up at 7 AM (I'm used to getting up at 9!), eat cold pasta for breakfast and then drive for 40 minutes to a place I've never been just to wait around for several hours ON A WORK DAY that happened to also be a Friday AND the first day of a weekend where I had a 3-5 page paper due the following Tuesday... without getting SOMETHING. (To be fair, they DO have decent orange pekoe tea in the waiting room where I had my JD, which was freely given, as well as hot cocoa packets, three computers with internet, and apparently, wireless internet if I had thought to bring my laptop. And they said they'd have let us out for lunch anyway. At least they treat jurors decently in my area! :P)

Luckily, I didn't have to go back again, but they did still pay me for that first day, even though I didn't end up on a jury and I got out in time for lunch. It was only $15, but hey...

Then I realized, $15 is exactly how much it takes to register a domain name through my current webhost. Even under my current account with them, I have up to three websites I can host, and I had only two.

So last night, I figured, what the hell, right?

I registered the domain name fandomania.org (the .net and .com versions were taken, by a SF/fantasy/comics site and a fanfiction site, respectively).

Now, I had been thinking for a few days, after hearing (after-the-fact) about this whole mess (but not hearing about how it was resolved), and thinking "Hey, wouldn't it be cool if there was a single site where the site itself was an official licensee, but accepted designs from fans, so that fans could design OFFICIAL merchandise? Win-win!" So I registered that domain with that in mind (you have NO idea how many names I had to try before I had a catchy domain name with the word "fan" in it that wasn't already registered, either).

Then I read this thread, and at first, I thought "crap, I'm gonna have to use that site for something else, I guess, it sounds like Universal's not as rabid about this as I thought."

But see, what you just said... it kind of jives with my idea! Especially since, me being the Browncoat I am, my idea was for the initial license being for Serenity stuff.

I'd be willing to work with you guys on this. Especially you, 11th Hour, since you've got some REALLY nifty designs and have clearly got a good head on your shoulders to boot. :) I figure, if they've got room for one more licensee, we could even make the licensing fees not so scary by pooling funds or something, or maybe selling stuff (that doesn't violate copyright/trademark or anything) before the licensing, to help offset the costs. I don't recall ever hearing about a business model (I suppose that's what you'd have to call it, eh?) like this before, so the novelty alone may even attract attention, even outside of the Browncoaty goodness that is our fandom. For one thing, I know Wired (and I think Slashdot?) and it's cadre of bloggers are always looking at weird or quirky or interesting sites that've popped up and talking about them there, and Wired is highly nerd-friendly. :)

Of course, if that don't work out, I could always use it for something else. :P But still, thought I'd get the offer out there and see if anyone's interested or agrees that it's worth trying.

-Jamie

Can't Stop The Signal!

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Sunday, January 28, 2007 1:39 PM

CYBERSNARK


Ooh, cool idea.

Might try taking it to other fandoms as well; Firefly isn't the only property that is spectacularly lacking in official swag (check out all that Heroes merchandise that they're not making). They'd stand to gain by backing it as well (which is good, 'cause I'd guess that buying a product license is expensive).

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Sunday, January 28, 2007 10:39 PM

RUNA27


Quote:

Originally posted by Cybersnark:
Ooh, cool idea.

Might try taking it to other fandoms as well; Firefly isn't the only property that is spectacularly lacking in official swag (check out all that Heroes merchandise that they're not making). They'd stand to gain by backing it as well (which is good, 'cause I'd guess that buying a product license is expensive).

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.



Hey, good point. :D

The mention of Heroes piques my interest, because I know that, while it's in surely no need of guerrilla marketing (it's quite successful), the creator DOES have heavy interaction with the fandom. Plus, like you said... they haven't made any Heroes stuff. So maybe there's not a licensee yet, even. :) Considering how many paintings Isaac's done alone (goregous, bright, pop art works, at that that would probably even look good on a T-shirt), and the number of cast members, well, it could provide a huge amount of material to work from. Not to mention memorable moments/quotes such as "I had a sword!?" ;) and dorky (but funny) "Save the cheerleader, save the world".

I do still want to do Serenity, though, and/or Firefly, because... well, I know Heroes probably has a bigger audience but... Heroes is that fun gal I like to hang out with on weekends and sometimes have a good long chat with on occasion... but Firefly/Serenity is the love of my life in comparison.

Still, business-wise, it might be a good move to license Heroes as well, and possibly first, because the fandom is still young and really active and plus, it's TV/comics, not film, which I'd wager would be more than TV/comics to license on average, plus, I'd really probably want to license Firefly too (just to make sure ALL the basic materials were there for making designs out of), which... well, would be more than just licensing one property, from one(?) company.

Hmmm... I mean, with a name with "Fandomania.org", obviously I had thought I could do it with more than one fandom, not just Firefly/Serenity. But it didn't occur to me to do Heroes before that! It's definitely something to consider.

If I have time at work tomorrow (in between the time I have to go to the dentist and the time that I have to actually work and the time I have to go to class, of course), I'll design a page for it and try to get an interesting look.

What colors do you suppose we should go with? A white background screams "pro", but may be too stark. Black may be a bit dark (and I know from reading on this site that if your eyesight ain't perfect, it can be a bit of a pain after a while!). Perhaps a light blue, with dark blue accents (black text on the light blue, white or pale blue text on the dark blue)? Blue doesn't "scream" at all; it suggests calm, tranquilty, and coolness in the right shades. Might strike that nice balance between "We're doing something that could be reaaaally um, unusual, here" and "We're serious about this" and "Hey cool! They have shirts that don't suck!"

Er, don't suggest parchment color with black, though. I've already got a parchment-peach-black site, and I don't like repeating a design like that, however basic it may be. :P

One nice thing about doing it on the account I am; I think I may have used up my free PHP databases, but I HAVEN'T used up my free shopping cart/store function thing that's supposed to come with it. So, we'd have a couple of basic, free options right there for the cart system (I think they give you two different systems to choose from, because I have a cool host like that :P), even if our message board options may or may not be a tad limited at the moment.

-Jamie

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Monday, January 29, 2007 3:32 AM

SHINYHAPPYKLIN


Hey Jamie, I'm actually working with a couple of legal types right now and am going to be announcing a fandom "participatory action research group" (as we call grassroots organizing in Anthropology) site, which will be looking for representatives from not only the Browncoat fandom, but from Harry Potter, BSG, Farscape, etc. etc. -- anyone who feels they're not getting what they want from their studios and the licensed merchandise available.

I had the wonderful opportunity to attend a conference on "participatory fandom" at MIT recently (and will be going back for another one in April), where the brand manager for Harry Potter/Warner Bros. and the brand manager for Nickleodeon spoke on user-generated content. Basically they recognize the wonderful talent of the fans, but there are legal issues, most of which are copyright related, that they just can't see an option to. They boiled it down to "either take everything they're given from the fans, but give them nothing back - no payments, no rights - OR you absolutely forbid any fan made product and prosecute it all."

I think that's very narrow minded, but that's what happens when you get legal language dictating relationships. I totally understand their need to protect their properties, but I think there are ways, modeled after Multiverse's and Second Life's agreements for user-generated content, as well as time-honored techniques of providing "usage guides" for logos, etc. in the PR/marketing field, that in consort, could open up some new avenues of allowing fans to work with studios in a win-win situation.

I'm working on the scholarly research end right now, and have an entertainment lawyer locally as well as one Susan put me in touch with in CA, and I'll have them look at some of the proposals.

One concept is very much like Jamie proposed, where you would have a master license owned by a company (this is incredibly expensive, BTW -- not something one individual usually wants to do unless you've got a corporation and funding to back this up), and then a "stable of designers", who would make products for that company under their license. Actually, at FX yesterday, we sat next to Qmx (the people making the Mal's gun replica and the big Serenity model), and someone like that might be good for us to speak with.

The other concept is, I think, a bit more practical for most fan merchandise, but would likely require some dedicated staff on the studio's end to manage: The studio would provide a usage guide to their properties (how to use the movie/show logos, they would provide high quality art work, also guidelines on what is/is not acceptable), and as long as the products did not violate the basic usage guidelines, anything goes, and fans would be free to create their own stores, etc., but payment would be made to the studio on each sale -- a "microlicensing/micropayment" arrangement. This is much like what Multiverse and other game companies do -- you make money, the studio makes money. If you don't sell anything, you don't pay anything in royalties.(also like the Cafepress model)

That concept can be more tedious for the studios to manage, because they would likely have the right to examine merchandise sold for quality control, there would be more accurate accounting of product sales required, etc., but there IS precedent for this model, and I think it's a very valid one for fan-made products.

Jamie, if you're interested in working with this, please watch for posts from me about the topic shortly. I will be organizing the PAR group structure online at my research website, thegeekchorus.com and will be eventually doing some blogs, etc. on the topic.

I know it can be done. The technology is there, the talent is there. We just have to - as a unified fandom front - convince the studios that there ARE options, and that we, their "co-petitors" (great term I got at that MIT conference!) are here to stay, so they need to learn how to work with us, and not against us.

Sue Regonini
Ph.D. Student, Applied Anthropology
University of South Florida



"We gotta go to that crappy town where I'M a hero..."
_______________________________
Shiny stuff for Browncoats at:
http://www.outtotheblack.com
http://www.cafepress.com/outtotheblack

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Monday, January 29, 2007 6:14 PM

UNSARDONIC


Quote:

it might be a good move to license Heroes as well, and possibly first, because the fandom is still young and really active


Right there is a good reason to continue this project(s): As popular as "Heroes" is and, as you pointed out, as young as its audience (ignoring my own... ummm... Hey! Jack Benny said I was "29"), it seems that a fair percentage of that young audience has no knowledge of all the "dire doin's" in the 'Verse... of just how bad'n'all all'us out here on the Edge need their help (""). And, a "fair percentage" of "popular" translates to a whole lot of new eyes for things of a "Serenitish" nature, if y'ask me.

The value of having access to exposure to "Firefly" for a bunch of "Hero"-worshippers could be highly valuable

...so my "friends" won't "think I'm a stupid, inbred stack of meat.

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Tuesday, January 30, 2007 3:43 PM

CYBERSNARK


Hell yeah.

Any show that includes Hiro Nakamura is the perfect place to find future Joss-addicts.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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