GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Whedonesque.com

POSTED BY: DEEPGIRL187
UPDATED: Thursday, April 27, 2006 05:32
SHORT URL:
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Thursday, April 27, 2006 2:49 AM

DEEPGIRL187


Does anyone know what's up with the people at Whedonesque? I'm not saying everyone (in fact, I saw a lot of FFF.net people over there), but there were a lot of people that seemed to think our efforts for Serenity Day are doomed to failure. I don't frequent the site much, so I have no way of knowing if this is a common reaction to fan-based campaigns. Do they have something against us over there?

At last.
We can retire and give up
this life of crime.

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Thursday, April 27, 2006 2:59 AM

WHOISRIVER


Whedonesque.com has over 4000 members. It does not speak in one voice.

However, an awful lot of the members work in LA, are directors, press people, producers etc. (Example: Joss Whedon posts as joss etc).

Realistically, as the plans for Serenity Day stood *at the time*, it had issues. A lot of those issues had actually been resolved.

Whedonesque is a very high profile site, which much of the press reads. Slagging it off, I'd recommend against. Do the people raise any valid points? If not, why are they raising them? Etc.

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Thursday, April 27, 2006 3:06 AM

DEEPGIRL187


Quote:

Originally posted by WhoIsRiver:
Whedonesque.com has over 4000 members. It does not speak in one voice.

However, an awful lot of the members work in LA, are directors, press people, producers etc. (Example: Joss Whedon posts as joss etc).

Realistically, as the plans for Serenity Day stood *at the time*, it had issues. A lot of those issues had actually been resolved.

Whedonesque is a very high profile site, which much of the press reads. Slagging it off, I'd recommend against. Do the people raise any valid points? If not, why are they raising them? Etc.




I don't have anything against the people on the site specifically. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion after all. I was however suprised by some of the negative reactions. Some people seemed to think that we're hurting the fandom rather than helping it, and I know that isn't anyone's intention.

At last.
We can retire and give up
this life of crime.

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Thursday, April 27, 2006 3:15 AM

FOLLOWMAL




Deepgirl187,

I think what you are seeing over at Whedonesque is a reaction to the stubborn nature of the leader of the Serenity Day action and their inability to come up with a compromise solution to the conflict with B!x and the day chosen.

Once there was talk yesterday of a reasonable solution to this ie: the Serenity Summer Campaign (which the leader of the movement to have Serenity Day on the 23rd DID NOT come up with, but co-opted as their own) the veteran 'coats and the folks on Whedonesque who post here infrequently came out and were heard to support the idea finally. As someone who's been here and WAS in the initial planning loop of this I questioned over and over the fact that none of the original folks had anything good to say about what we were doing. Now you see when there is talk of helping B!x promote his screenings and then turning the fandom's attention to the push that STARTS on the 23rd and ends with a Serenity Day planned for September 30th there are old timers and folks from Whedonesque posting and saying that this idea is one they can get behind.

Sadly, the leader of the Serenity Day push announced yesterday that she is keeping the 23rd as THE day..despite votes to the contrary and I don't know where that leaves all of us who wanted this compromise to restore "serenity" to the Browncoats.



"You hold. Hold 'til I get back." Mal

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Thursday, April 27, 2006 3:16 AM

AGATSU


Well, they were pretty ill informed, which in part results from people on here itching to get the word out before there was a definite plan (well, everyone was encouraged to spread the word, of course, but the idea itself was a mere 2 weeks old when the complaints about it started.
What else could they think but that this is an unorganised bunch? We weren't DONE with the organising yet, so...
But the BRA guys might be. So we jump on board and support them en masse because they already got it covered, and then they'll support US on Serenity Day, and possibly the rest of the campaign (hey, it's gonna be fun, anyways). And we can do all the organising we need to convince the WE Browncoats that this could indeed make an impact and unite instead of divide the Browncoats - if we take the SSC road.
I know I'm slapping the idea in everyone's face, but I'm just so convinced that this is the thing to do, all circumstances considered. Although I guess there will be more surprises - both pleasant and unpleasant - along the way, especially considering the lack of communication between the various fan site boards. But that's life for ya.

ALWAYS first assume that it was a misunderstanding, no matter what kind of hwai goes down, that's my motto. Or would be, if I had a motto. It's a guideline, though, and so far it's kept a lot of situations in my life from getting unneccessarily ugly(er).

Serenity Summer Campaign for teh win!1!!

BROWNCOATS UNITE!

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Thursday, April 27, 2006 3:19 AM

SIMONF


Speaking as one of the admins at Whedonesque, I can say we actively post about fan campaigns and people chat about them. If there wasn't fan campaigns, there wouldn't be much of a fandom.

In our time we talked about the following campaigns:

1) Save Firefly
2) Get Firefly released on DVD
3) Thank Mutant Enemy for Buffy
4) Thank Angel 100th episode
5) Save Angel
6) Support the Spike movie
7) Various efforts to help raise awareness for the release of Serenity
8) Thank various actors (i.e. SMG, James Marsters and so on)

And countless more.

"Do they have something against us over there?"

Against fff.net? Or fans in general? Is the June 23rd campaign officially being run by fff.net or posters by fff.net? Because it's not exactly clear who is in charge.

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Thursday, April 27, 2006 3:19 AM

WHOISRIVER


Okay, right - first off, could people not tear me apart for this, and secondly, I speak for nobody but me:

By going to Universal, calling their execs "Fat Cats" and saying you will spike DVD sales one day -- which was, at the time, the plan... That's going to actually hurt things. Universal know their is a fan base -- trust me, I talk to the execs. They know fans can do things like this. What they need is people *outside* the fan knowing about it.

Some of the critical people in that topic are the ones who placed the Variety adverts for 'save Firefly' back in 2002. Soem of the people visited the set of Firefly. Some went to the Serenity premeire on invite of 'versal. Some are press people.

When dealing with something like this, you have to be very careful with planning, to do things in the right way. At the time the Whedonesque link was posted, things weren't organised enough, and it got the response it got because of those things.

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Thursday, April 27, 2006 3:20 AM

DEEPGIRL187


Quote:

Originally posted by FollowMal:
Sadly, the leader of the Serenity Day push announced yesterday that she is keeping the 23rd as THE day..despite votes to the contrary and I don't know where that leaves all of us who wanted this compromise to restore "serenity" to the Browncoats.



If that is Kaele's decision, then I sense a great deal of trouble on the horizon. Turning Serenity Day into a campaign was one of the only hopes of uniting us as a group. Without compromise, things are going to get very bad, very quickly.

At last.
We can retire and give up
this life of crime.

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Thursday, April 27, 2006 3:24 AM

PURPLEPEBBLE


Quote:

Originally posted by FollowMal:

Sadly, the leader of the Serenity Day push announced yesterday that she is keeping the 23rd as THE day..despite votes to the contrary and I don't know where that leaves all of us who wanted this compromise to restore "serenity" to the Browncoats.



Well as far as i am aware it leaves most of us over on
http://fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=20169

We like this compromise SSC idea and a lot of people seem able to get on board, which always helps.


~x~x~x~x~x~x~x~x~x~x~x~x~x~x~x~x~x~x~x~x~x~x~x~x~
"Why did you leave?".... "Why didn't you ask me not too?"

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Thursday, April 27, 2006 3:24 AM

DEEPGIRL187


Quote:

Originally posted by SimonF:
Against fff.net? Or fans in general? Is the June 23rd campaign officially being run by fff.net or posters by fff.net? Because it's not exactly clear who is in charge.




The campaign is being run by posters here on FFF.net. And by saying "do they have something against us" I mean do some of the posters have a problem with what we are trying (emphasis on "trying") to do on this site. Sorry about the misunderstanding, not trying to make enemies of people on whedonesque.com.

At last.
We can retire and give up
this life of crime.

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Thursday, April 27, 2006 3:26 AM

WHOISRIVER


Just to clarify, the Whedonesque topic finished long before the debate about moving the date happened. I think. I've also got nothing against Kaele at all.

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Thursday, April 27, 2006 3:27 AM

VINTERDRAKEN


My two coppers is and will always be that were fighting an uphill battle here and the last thing we need is to fight each other. One big day, whole lot of days, dont really matter, as long as we do it together.

And now, what is this I hear about a Spike movie?

You can’t stop the Signal.
Keep spreading the word about Firefly!

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Thursday, April 27, 2006 3:27 AM

VINTERDRAKEN


My two coppers is and will always be that were fighting an uphill battle here and the last thing we need is to fight each other. One big day, whole lot of days, dont really matter, as long as we do it together.

And now, what is this I hear about a Spike movie?

You can’t stop the Signal.
Keep spreading the word about Firefly!

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Thursday, April 27, 2006 3:27 AM

VINTERDRAKEN


My two coppers is and will always be that were fighting an uphill battle here and the last thing we need is to fight each other. One big day, whole lot of days, dont really matter, as long as we do it together.

And now, what is this I hear about a Spike movie?

You can’t stop the Signal.
Keep spreading the word about Firefly!

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Thursday, April 27, 2006 3:27 AM

VINTERDRAKEN


My two coppers is and will always be that were fighting an uphill battle here and the last thing we need is to fight each other. One big day, whole lot of days, dont really matter, as long as we do it together.

And now, what is this I hear about a Spike movie?

You can’t stop the Signal.
Keep spreading the word about Firefly!

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Thursday, April 27, 2006 3:27 AM

VINTERDRAKEN


My two coppers is and will always be that were fighting an uphill battle here and the last thing we need is to fight each other. One big day, whole lot of days, dont really matter, as long as we do it together.

And now, what is this I hear about a Spike movie?

You can’t stop the Signal.
Keep spreading the word about Firefly!

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Thursday, April 27, 2006 3:27 AM

VINTERDRAKEN


My two coppers is and will always be that were fighting an uphill battle here and the last thing we need is to fight each other. One big day, whole lot of days, dont really matter, as long as we do it together.

And now, what is this I hear about a Spike movie?

You can’t stop the Signal.
Keep spreading the word about Firefly!

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Thursday, April 27, 2006 3:37 AM

SIMONF


Quote:

The campaign is being run by posters here on FFF.net. And by saying "do they have something against us" I mean do some of the posters have a problem with what we are trying (emphasis on "trying") to do on this site. Sorry about the misunderstanding, not trying to make enemies of people on whedonesque.com.


Well speaking for myself, I think Joss will be busy for the next three or four years with his movies and any talk of a Serenity sequel will have to sit on the sidelines. I can understand the frustation of fans who want to do something because they watched a superb movie and then found out that there are no sequels in the pipeline. But I am not convinced a campaign such as this will achieve anything in the short-run.

I think it's a waiting game for a sequel and if a sequel was going to arrive in the cinema I reckon it will be 2010 maybe 2011 (again that's if it happens).

There are people who think the campaign will not work and there are others who are convinced of it efforts. That is the nature of fandom, we've hardly ever spoken with one voice.

But I wish you good luck with the campaign anyhow.




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Thursday, April 27, 2006 3:43 AM

FOLLOWMAL


Quote:

Originally posted by WhoIsRiver:
Just to clarify, the Whedonesque topic finished long before the debate about moving the date happened. I think. I've also got nothing against Kaele at all.



I don't think any of us here have anything against Kaele at all... just hoping that she can make a solid decision that will be a suitable compromise for this situation.

I hope mightily that she can and then I'll be behind that idea 100%.

As it stands right now... well, we will see what happens.

"You hold. Hold 'til I get back." Mal

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Thursday, April 27, 2006 3:46 AM

FOLLOWMAL



double post.. sorry folks

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Thursday, April 27, 2006 3:46 AM

WHOISRIVER


Simon, it'd have to be before 2011 as the cast are only under contract for a set time. That said, if a sequel were to happen, it'd definitely be years away. Serenity took 3 years to put together and get released, and that was solid work - there's now Wonder Womans and Goners coming before any potential sequel, anyway.

That said, if you want to convince 'versal to make a sequel, now is the time to start.

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Thursday, April 27, 2006 3:51 AM

PURPLEPEBBLE


Quote:



That said, if you want to convince 'versal to make a sequel, now is the time to start.



Hey if the SSC has any affect on the making of a sequel than yay!! We can all dance the happy jig, and smile lots.
if it doesn't, then hey we can all enjoy our shindigs, and enjoy having all the people we have converted during the time to chat with.

It a win win in my view.

~x~x~x~x~x~x~x~x~x~x~x~x~x~x~x~x~x~x~x~x~x~x~x~x~
"Why did you leave?".... "Why didn't you ask me not too?"

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Thursday, April 27, 2006 3:57 AM

SERVANTOFKUSHIEL


I am really fired up! Seems to me a lot of figureheads (people who say I was here from the start) want to slam people in one sentence then tell everyone to calm down and get over it in the next. It's just ridiculous. And they really seems so condecending. It's really getting on my nerves. IT'S JUST A DATE FOR GODS SAKE! Also, isn't there like 20000 members on this site alone? We ARE NOT all going to hold hands and get along. People argue. If you have never argued with anyone your whole life please post, cause I want to talk to you and get your secret. This arguing is not going to break down the entire fanbase of Firefly because we like the show, the forums will never change that. People can says what they want, but if it's rude expect to get it back and then some. That's how it goes. I am not going to act like I want to unite with everyone cause I'm really angry at a few people's posts, and I will say my piece if i want to. The people at Whedonesque.com have the right to express their opinion, but I don't think they did it with any eloquence or grace. As I said in a previous post, when I read the things they wrote it just made me not want to hit their site ever again. Not a very productive way to entice new members to join lol.

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Thursday, April 27, 2006 4:03 AM

WHOISRIVER



Not a very productive way to entice new members to join lol.


You can't join Whedonesque at the moment -- they only registration a few days a year.

People are, of course, free to say and do as they please.

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Thursday, April 27, 2006 4:15 AM

AGATSU


That might explain why B!x postet there - he knew we wouldn't be able to clear things up since we can't just register - or even just post, like it is possible here.
Sorry, but that's the way he made me think about him. I ain't got any beef whatsoever with anyone else. Don't always agree with people or the way they express themselves, but I see the light, so to speak.
I've done a lot of ranting myself, to a few people on a private scale, to get it out of my system and move on with the solution-finding and be able to contain myself here to get it done.
I also wrote PMs and posts I never sent, just to clear my head a bit. It helps. Later you think "Thank God I didn't post that!", but it has still done good.
Otherwise I would probably have ranted like a madman on here, too.
I'm also on the "council" for Serenity Day, so I gots to be all responsible and hwai. And I can see reason! I'm reasn-ab-le! I have a reason!
It's shiny, shiny Serenity, and all the people whose eyes tear up when they see her.

Serenity Summer Campaign for teh win!1!!

BROWNCOATS UNITE!

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Thursday, April 27, 2006 4:21 AM

WHOISRIVER



That might explain why B!x postet there - he knew we wouldn't be able to clear things up since we can't just register - or even just post, like it is possible here.


...But B!x also posts here... I post at Whedonesque, and it isn't because people can't register (it has 4000 members...), it's because it is THE website for Joss Whedon's work.

To be clear, B!x has a way with words (as in, he needs to drink more or less coffee before posting, I'm not sure which...) - but he often has a point. He just manages to express it in probably not the nicest way.

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Thursday, April 27, 2006 4:35 AM

AGATSU


Well, most of his posts here are the ones in which he signs up people for "his" charity who want to do screenings because of the Serenity Day hype, and is all merry about it.
At this time, he had already long posted his rant on his site.
He only started posting on the subject of his disgust with what we are trying to do on FFF.net AFTER getting the backup of the "important people" (whatever that means) at Whedonesque and having a whole thread dedicated to what Zoid thinks about him here.
And, no matter how he choses to express himself, I'm usually able to see through the insults and the bullshit and see where the person is coming from, and all I can see behind his bullshit is one big ego hiding behind the flag of charity.
Sorry, but that's the impression he's made on me. And if he is in charge of organising a global charity event (global only after the Serenity Day hype, I might add), he should really be able to express himself in a civilised manner and SPEAK UP HERE FIRST BEFORE GOING ON A RANT ELSEWHERE, don't you think?
I like cursing, myself, but apart from dropping a few sarcastics remarks here and there (and everywhere), I contained myself because I still have my eyes on the ball and try to get along, and I think it shows.
The way HE expresses himself, and the very meaning of what he is saying, imply that he doesn't give a shit about anything but his precious day and his 15 minutes of fame.
His sin is pride, so to speak.
We try to adjust to make everyone happy, he tries to boycott us. How exactly does his manner of expression change that fact?

Serenity Summer Campaign for teh win!1!!

BROWNCOATS UNITE!

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Thursday, April 27, 2006 4:43 AM

SERVANTOFKUSHIEL


Thank you WhoisRiver/Gossi for proving my point on the condecending attitude. You can't join Whedonesque at the moment. Darn.

P.S. I'll tell all my friends.

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Thursday, April 27, 2006 4:46 AM

WHOISRIVER


Uhm, okay, we're gettin' into that in fightin' thing here.

Can't Stop The Serenity is about gender equality. Joss Whedon says this about the charity in the press release (just above The One True B!x's quote in the press release), which was reproduced from Whedonesque:

"“There are two ways to fight a battle like ours. One is to whisper in the ear of the masses, try subtlely and gradually to change the gender expectations and mythic structures of our culture. That’s me. The other is to step up and confront the thousands of atrocities that are taking place around the world on an immediate, one-by-one basis. That’s a great deal harder, and that’s Equality Now. It’s not about politics; it’s about basic human decency.”"

Here's the rest of what he said:

"
There's no way I'm not weighing in on this one.

I am SO proud and grateful that this is where the energy of the Browncoats is going. Buffy and Angel fans have always distinguished themselves through their altruism, but this hits close to home in a way probably none of you know.

My mother started what I believe was the first high school chapter of Amnesty International. She was a history teacher, and started a feminism course as well (she also directed plays -- not so much the slacker). Probably her favorite student (and she had many that she loved) was Jessica Neuwirth. Jessica went on to work as a lawyer for Amnesty International and then started Equality Now, which used the Amnesty model to combat gender-based offenses. Jessica is as kind, intelligent and dedicated as anyone I've ever known (and would probably cringe to read any of this.) The idea that my work is on a wavelength with Equality Now's agenda is as gratifying as anything I could wish for. But for the fans to take an active role in helping out this under-recognized cause, and on such a grand scale... it means more than I can say. I have said, in point of fact, much more than I usually would in this forum, but I can't contain my appreciation. My mother would have been so pleased.

...

It's not about politics; it's about basic human decency. And it's more important than... well, than that movie I keep telling everyone to see.

Thank you to the tireless Browncoats and everyone who donated, bid or lifted a finger to raise this money, for making my work mean more than it ever did, even to me."

I don't give a toss who's event was global first, or who had the date first. I care about the charity.

If people want to give Joss a birthday present -- which is one of the original intentions of Serenity Day -- is this it?

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Thursday, April 27, 2006 4:57 AM

AGATSU


That's sort of my point - it looks like he sort of doesn't care about the charity itself, because Equality Now can profit immensly by the Serenity Day effort - as it already did.
But B!x only seems to care about how it looks instead of what it does.
Plus, we could make damn sure everyone knows that it's two seperate events.
We're on the same side here! I totally like the Equality Now charity idea (and pledge to donate 50$ on that day, if possible through CANTSTOPTHESERENITY.COM), I just have a problem with B!x trying to boycott our efforts while we keep saying that it's not gonna be a problem and we'll figure something out and we'll keep the events seperated and we'll do anything to support SN/EN.
See where I'm coming from?

Sorry I drifted into fightin' land for a second there, but this is beginning to stress me out.

Serenity Summer Campaign for teh win!1!!

BROWNCOATS UNITE!

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Thursday, April 27, 2006 5:04 AM

SERVANTOFKUSHIEL


I feel you agatsu! I got so worked up I gave myself a massive headache.

P.S. I am usually not a fighter, so for me to get all worked up is out character. I just felt kinda pooped upon by that site.

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Thursday, April 27, 2006 5:05 AM

WHOISRIVER


Hee, I totally see where you are coming from. There's no easy answers. Comprise is the way forward, yadada!

At the end of the day, I'm sure many things will happen over the next year, and they'll be grand. It just needs to be done with not quite so much mud slinging from everybody (including, probably, me) involved.

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Thursday, April 27, 2006 5:08 AM

DEEPGIRL187


I've been reading everyone's posts about the mess we've created. That being said, I've come to a few conclusions, all of which are just my opinions, not meant to offend in any way.

First, regarding the date change. After reading the posts of Agatsu and WhoIsRiver, I really believe that we should either go with the Serenity Summer Campaign or move the date to September 30. Equality Now sounds like a really wonderful charity, and I would hate for our actions to detract from it in any way. Getting our show (or movie) back is nice, but it pales in comparison to helping out our fellow human beings. I don't agree with B!x in his outlook on things, it's more than a little, oh, I don't know, pretentious? But the charity he supports is something that's worthwhile. It would also be in our best interests not to create a schism among Browncoats. We'll all disagree from time to time, but we need to remain focused, and more importantly, friendly.

Secondly, I like Agatsu's idea about waiting to buy DVD's. Not to say you shouldn't turn people on to the verse, but I think this would also detract from supporting the charity. Come June 23, raising money for Equality Now should come first, not greenlighting another movie.

If, by god, we can all get this 'sessed out by the summer, I think Joss will have a very shiny birthday present waiting on him.

At last.
We can retire and give up
this life of crime.

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Thursday, April 27, 2006 5:09 AM

AGATSU


I assure you that the original plan never included any mud-slinging.
Hopefully, one day we'll be watching Serenity II in a world where everyone is equal, and laugh about this shit.

Serenity Summer Campaign for teh win!1!!

BROWNCOATS UNITE!

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Thursday, April 27, 2006 5:22 AM

AGATSU


Quote:

Originally posted by deepgirl187:
First, regarding the date change. After reading the posts of Agatsu and WhoIsRiver, I really believe that we should either go with the Serenity Summer Campaign or move the date to September 30.


But the Serenity Summer Campaign already puts Serenity Day and the buying frenzy on Sept.30th, anyways.
On June 23rd, we support the other events, especially Serenity Now where possible, that'll be big enough. Maybe some missions and Shindigs. Easy-peasy.

Serenity Summer Campaign for teh win!1!!

BROWNCOATS UNITE!

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Thursday, April 27, 2006 5:23 AM

SAMEERTIA


I give up.
Where did Kaele say she was holding the date of June 23rd?

Anyway, like someone else said, we need to see some compromise.

I fully support the Equality Now cause- in fact, see my other thread somewhere far down this line of hoopla about finding other ways for those of us who cannot attend or promote a charity screening! I'd like to see money going to this worthwhile cause as well.

We had some rogue advertising leaping across the boards before we had a solid plan and the original Whedonesque plan bashing stemmed from that. They didn't bother to actually look into what we were doing, just started bashing away.

Kind of like we tend to do sometimes.

At this point, I'm kinda seeing Bix as being like Jayne- nobody likes him much but he holds a big gun and can get the job done. Unfortunately, I think all the infighting and backstabbing has really turned people off ot the cause of Equality Now, and I'm not sure how to bring it back.
I am a sad monkey.

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Thursday, April 27, 2006 5:31 AM

DEEPGIRL187


Make that two sad little monkeys. Things are really goin' a mite south.

At last.
We can retire and give up
this life of crime.

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Thursday, April 27, 2006 5:32 AM

KURYA


Ok
in terms of whedonesque.com, all I am going to say that after it was posted, I knew it was not ready, and I knew the bashing was going to start. Now I know people are allowed to criticize, and thats fine. criticism is good. But the way things were going there I just felt, like there was this huge tide of"this plan is foolish stupid blah blah", and even when the plan was not even finished on the website!
So I had to say something... and that led to stuff...
I jsut think that cirticisng and even arguing is fine a bit, but when I was reading the entries, espeically from certain people, I felt there was some real nastiness. Maybe I am just irrational, but thats what I felt. Anyways its a moot point its done and over with.

I honestly think people can support equality now by going to charity screenings or personally giving money, AND participate in serenity day/campaign. I guess I jsut expect myself to not spend on alot of other things. Again, maybe Im just irrational and idealistic...
Im getting tired of "debating this"
Prakash



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.cantstoptheserenity.com

Trying to organize a charity screening of Serenity in Montreal, need to know if there is interest! Contact me by signing up on the board or private message me!


For shindigs in Montreal join (need to register to see the firefly/serenity section):
http://www.lucky-stars.ca/board

Canadian? join:
http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/canadianbrowncoats/

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