GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

DOes Joss have the cajones?

POSTED BY: SERENA777
UPDATED: Friday, January 27, 2006 09:59
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Thursday, January 26, 2006 5:44 AM

SERENA777


The more I read - The momentum is there - a million ideas are there

I believe with all this momentum that we don't need pay-per-view - it has the potential
to be picked up - I don't think money was the problem -it was the shortsightedness of fox period.

Now the real question is - Does Joss WHedon
have the cajones to make this happen?


It all boils down to him -- we have the fanbase
we've delivered our end - we are die-hard believers

I DOn't think with all of the ruckus we've
been stirring that a network (with vision)
would have a problem doing this.

I choose si fi - because Universal is their
parent company and frankly with all
the twists and turns of Serenity/Firefly
The mixed-marriages,bawdy humor, regular humor, action, language all made the series and I'd hate to see them have to tone it down too much
and on Si Fi you can do that - not so much
on "Prime Time"

I don't think we need to pay per view it - it can stand on its own.

Now, Joss has been "bucked off" the Network
horse - and maybe he's a bit spooked to get
back on - he'll have to decide that

But the bottom line/question is:

Will JOss screw up his courage and get
into another series with Serenity?





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Thursday, January 26, 2006 5:48 AM

GRIMJACK21502


I'm with you.

I think all that would be needed at this point is for Joss to send out his feelers again. Also, I don' think Joss has to view it as a 24/7 commitment. Tim Minear could handle the show on his own with Joss as a part-time creative consultant.

Come on Joss...one more ride.

"And once you're gone, you can never come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black"
-Neil Young

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Thursday, January 26, 2006 5:52 AM

SPINLAND


Methinks he could be haulin' 'em around in a wheelbarrow, but if he doesn't have a second wheelbarrow full of cash it won't matter how big his 'nads are. Stones don't get a show on the air, unless they're made of gold.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"That's what governments are for, [to] get in a man's way." -- Malcolm Reynolds

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Thursday, January 26, 2006 6:03 AM

SERENA777


Its not the cash - there is enough momentum

he has a big ego (rightly so)
but can he get over that enough
to come back to the "table"

Even if he a god or has golden cajones - no-one is going to give him
a 5 yr contract no q's asked- he will have to work for it (But a lot less hard if it were a new series with no fan base or movie behind it)

HE'LL have to ask and work for it

size doesn't matter - its what you do with it/them


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Thursday, January 26, 2006 6:20 AM

SERENA777


GrimJack - re: these "feelers"

is there such a thing? a way
to contact Joss or his company/rep/assistant?

it seems to be we're spinnin our wheels
trying to guess what will happen

personnaly i think some might be missing the point

- there is enough interest for a network
to pick it up -- doesn't need money

can I say it again - it don't need money!!!

But we do need one BIG VOICE that will
convince (or try to) Joss to return to Serenity

in a series form - not just a movie form

a movie has to be too fast paced - JOss is
a genius at the series.



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Thursday, January 26, 2006 6:26 AM

GLUEMAN


"Does Joss Whedon have the cajones to make this happen?

A Series does not one person make. Joss is the creator, but creative presentation in this form is a collaborative effort.

Ah...the question is does he have a creative and production team with cajones?


"Have you looked at this scan carefully? At his face? It's love point of fact" Operative at the Institute Records Room

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Thursday, January 26, 2006 6:28 AM

MRBEN


My question would be, given his previous statements on about Fox, if Fox went back to Joss and said "We made a mistake, but we've made loads of money on the DVD boxsets, please come back and make the TV series again" would he do it, or would he stick to his guns about not doing any more TV for them?

mrben

"Carpe Aptenodytes"
http://www.jedimoose.org

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Thursday, January 26, 2006 6:40 AM

SERENA777


I wouldn't deal with fox again
I don't even like their line-up
why did he ever deal with them in the first place?

ANyway - do you mean if they kissed up to him
that it may assuage his ego enough to
bring firefly back? or not

what did you mean?

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Thursday, January 26, 2006 6:43 AM

MRBEN


Quote:

ANyway - do you mean if they kissed up to him
that it may assuage his ego enough to
bring firefly back? or not

what did you mean?



I meant that if it was a choice between a Firefly TV series with Fox, or no TV series at all, which would Joss choose?

(Personally I'd rather that there _was_ a TV series, but, as you say, I'm not sure I trust Fox to do it right.....)

mrben

"Carpe Aptenodytes"
http://www.jedimoose.org

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Thursday, January 26, 2006 6:46 AM

SERENA777


You are sooooo right!!!

I couldn't agree more -- there would have
to be a team

frankly I think TIm Minnear and some of the other fantatic writers that they had could handle "the day to day" with Joss writing one show a season
if he didnt want to engross himself

But face it JOss Whedon is the creator of the series and HE would have to start the ball rolling

I even think that if they let fans submit ideas
to "help" to series if needed.

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Thursday, January 26, 2006 6:46 AM

CARTOON


Quote:

Originally posted by serena777:
Now the real question is - Does Joss WHedon
have the cajones to make this happen?



Frankly, I clicked on this thread because (from the title) I assumed that some unfortunate accident had befallen Mr. Whedon -- possibly on the set of "Serenity" (you know, there were a lot of sharp objects being brandied about).

Relieved to see, however, that Mr. Whedon's cajones are apparently still intact.

Seriously, I don't get the vibes that Joss is still interested in persuing this. He if were, first thing he should've done was immediately fire the film's entire advertising/public relations department. "Serenity" got some very good reviews, and where did you see them quoted (or even mentioned) in the ads? Nowhere.

When you really want to do something, you give it your best. The studios buried this film, and I didn't hear Joss complaining about that in the least. (Not saying he didn't, but if he did, I certainly heard nothing about it.)


"You got any light to shed on this development?"




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Thursday, January 26, 2006 6:52 AM

SERENA777


well, wer're dreaming anyway -

no way fox or any network is going to say
"we screwed up" publicly

'sides they're still making money over
firefly DVD's - they're making out like
bandits -

so in their minds - did they screw up?



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Thursday, January 26, 2006 6:54 AM

GLUEMAN


Why FOX?......MONEY!

The management at FOX has changed sense Firefly was last broadcast I believe. “Let bygone’s be bygone’s”…..bury the hatchet and get a guarantee number of episodes produces direct to broadcast, DVD or VOD.

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Thursday, January 26, 2006 6:58 AM

SERENA777


The linear response is a bit difficult...

Glueman you are soooo right!!!

We do need a collaberative effort

if you look at the DVd's Joss didn't write all
of them -

and they were great, funny, sad, bawdy shows

each and every one of the writers have the right to be proud of that series

But question -- do you think they would return
to the series? was there bad blood between
Joss and them?

I'm not up on all the gossip/rumors

I though Joss's beef w/Fox but were there other
problems as well?





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Thursday, January 26, 2006 7:26 AM

ITSBROKEN


I dont think Joss should deal with fox again because they are just going to screw it all up, even if they end up making a ton of money on the dvd box sets. They would just air the eps out of order, and change things. I like the idea of someone else picking up the show.

Doesnt Joss have a couple projects right now though? we would have to wait for those to end. What about the other writers.

-----
***someone should make a MMORPG based on the 'verse!***

Geeze i want Firefly to come back!

-----

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Thursday, January 26, 2006 7:34 AM

SERENA777


I think Si Fi is the best Frame for serenity/firefly

it can get more action, humor, mature audiences kind of stuff that "regular" Tv channels may have a problem with

and I don't think truly -even if they begged_
that he would go back to them

and I would applaud that decision




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Thursday, January 26, 2006 7:41 AM

SERENA777


its broken

I do think he's "busy" but he has only to get the ball rolling - START "the talks" as they say -
there are a team of people who do the details

even if they started talks NOW - IT WOULD STILL TAKE MONTHS to see a series on TV -

and these "talks" can be done by his team while
he's doing his other projects -so no real need to wait.


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Thursday, January 26, 2006 8:13 AM

CWNEK


Quote:

Originally posted by itsbroken:
I dont think Joss should deal with fox again because they are just going to screw it all up, even if they end up making a ton of money on the dvd box sets.
-----



You're right and you're wrong here. Fox NETWORK screwed up FF, and thus have lost out on the opportunity to have broadcast 4.5 more seasons of what we all know would have been a very successful program. They have profited zilch from DVD sales. Fox's production company has benefitted from these sales, and rightfully so. They are the good guys. We have them to thank for 6.5 seasons of BtVS, 5 seasons of ANGEL (both to be aired on non-Fox networks), and, had a new home been found for continued episodes back in 2001, 5+ seasons of FF. If and when FF is relaunched as a series, it will no doubt be done with a Fox Productions crew.

This board really needs a FAQ section to clear this and other issues up for good. It's nota s simple as "Fox Sux".

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Thursday, January 26, 2006 8:26 AM

GLUEMAN


“I think Si Fi is the best Frame for serenity/firefly”

Ultimately I agree with you Serena777 but, I just think they should keep their options open with FOX. I’m bitter about how FOX handled them, but I think it comes down to the personality involved at that time. Things change…People Change. I just want the Show to continue.

Side note: The Entertainment world can be both wonderful and brutal at the same time...it takes
a thick skin to survive.


"Have you looked at this scan carefully? At his face? It's love point of fact" Operative at the Institute Records Room

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Thursday, January 26, 2006 6:08 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by serena777:
its broken

I do think he's "busy" but he has only to get the ball rolling - START "the talks" as they say -
there are a team of people who do the details





Yes, he's VERY busy. Doing a couple more feature films right now (Goners and Wonder Woman), and apparently doing some talking about a Spike movie for either WB network or DVD direct release.

Quote:

even if they started talks NOW - IT WOULD STILL TAKE MONTHS to see a series on TV -

and these "talks" can be done by his team while
he's doing his other projects -so no real need to wait.




True... but what leads you to believe that such talks AREN'T going on right now? If they were, you'd likely never hear about them until the ink was dry on the contracts, because nothing screws up a deal in Hollywood faster than a rumor or news leak!

For what it's worth, I've never gotten the impression that Joss Whedon has a huge ego. He's never been shy about asking for help when he feels he (or any of his shows) needs it, and he took Firefly around to every network in existence and practically BEGGED them to give hime a place to continue its story after it was dumped by Fox Network. He's said, REPEATEDLY, that he loves these characters, these actors, these stories, and this whole universe he created, as well as the entire crew that helped bring it to fruition, and he'd gladly work with them to bring out more stories from this 'verse. He says he WILL revisit this 'verse, so I don't think he's given up at all. A guy who just wanted a truckload of cashy money and a good ego-stroke wouldn't waste his time writing comic books to continue the story of this crew.

Sci-Fi would be the *logical* choice for a renewed Firefly/Serenity series, miniseries, movie of the week, or what have you, but that doesn't necessarily mean that THEY are interested, or that they can afford the monies needed to make it happen.

Didn't mean to rant, but I just get a bit frustrated with people constantly trying to say that Joss wants nothing more to do with Firefly or Serenity, that it's "over" for him.

As for why he didn't trash the studio or the marketing team for the way they handled the film's promotion... well, there's an old saying about not pooping where you eat. Joss might not be happy about the way some things were handled, but he'd damn well better not say it out loud, for public consumption! That's the surest way to get the studio or network to slam the door in your face.

Would Joss work for Fox Network again? I'm betting he probably would. Sure, there's no love lost between them, but time and money can sure help heal old wounds. If it meant he got to keep telling his stories of the Firefly 'verse, I've no doubt that Joss would suck it up, be the better man, and do the job admirably. Not to benefit Fox (which it undoubtedly would), but to benefit himself (psychologically, not just monetarily) and his faithful fans.

Mike

"Kaylee, find that kid that's taking a dirt nap with baby Jesus; we need a hood ornament."

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Thursday, January 26, 2006 6:31 PM

MICHAELANGELO


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Yes, he's VERY busy. Doing a couple more feature films right now (Goners and Wonder Woman), and apparently doing some talking about a Spike movie for either WB network or DVD direct release.



A Spike movie? "Do we care about that. Are we caring about that?"


~
You can't take the sky from me

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Thursday, January 26, 2006 7:14 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by MichaelAngelo:


A Spike movie? "Do we care about that. Are we caring about that?"


~
You can't take the sky from me



Well, *I* care about that. I'm a fan of ALL of Joss's universes, because they're all fun places full of great stories. I've never been a Wonder Woman fan, but you can bet your arse that I'll go see the gorram movie when it comes out - just because it's Joss's baby!

And Spike is still one of my favorite characters. He's evil, but it's a FUN kind of evil, full of snarkiness and wit.

"Kaylee, find that kid that's taking a dirt nap with baby Jesus; we need a hood ornament."

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Thursday, January 26, 2006 8:32 PM

KELLAINA


If only it were this easy. Joss can talk until he's blue in the face, but if the networks aren't interested it doesn't matter.

Sci-fi would likely be the best home for a new series, or mini-series, but from what I understand they don't have oodles of cash to throw around (not that I'm suggesting we raise money. Because I'm not - that opens up a another can of worms).

Quote:

I DOn't think with all of the ruckus we've been stirring that a network (with vision)
would have a problem doing this.



The networks would have a problem - Firefly was cancelled (doesn't matter why, there's still a stigma) and Serenity didn't exactly shatter any box office records.

Unfortunately, the nets like the tried and true - safe shows, how else can we explain the existence of 3 CSI's and 4 Law and Orders. There's little vision when a bottom line must be met.

I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but I'm getting tired of people suggesting that all Joss needs to do is make a few phone calls. If it were that easy Firefly wouldn't have been cancelled in the first place.

This isn't the first time we've been in limbo - but we'll get through it, because that's what Browncoats do .

Edited to add: I would love a Spike movie

If nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do. -"Angel"

AKA LittleAlbatross

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Thursday, January 26, 2006 9:20 PM

RIVER6213


I have a feeling that Firefly might get a series again one of these days, because it IS future money in the bank, but I fear it might be a long while from now, and when the networks do it, they might use different people. I hope it doesnt turn out that way, but it might.

4 or 8 years from now, would anyone accept the idea of a new Firefly with new people?

Please forgive me if this is an intrusion in the thread.

River

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Friday, January 27, 2006 5:20 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Joss has CJ, judging by FF's pilot episode music video:
http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2006/01/8310.php

Intense rush!

"You can't stop the signal!"
-Mr Universe, STM, Pirate TV

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Friday, January 27, 2006 7:59 AM

MYCROFTXXX


I think Kwicko is right. If Joss is in negotiations with anyone about the future of this franchise in one form or another it would be kept under tight wraps until the deal is finalized. Who he might be dealing with is likely analyzing the sales of the various products (Theater#s, Firefly series DVD sales, Serenity sales) to figure out what is the most logical path to take. Fan support will play a role but only a minor one as we all love the 'verse in any medium which doesn't give them the answers they need.

If Joss IS working some deals it will be a while before we get an inkling of it. Non-disclosure agreements are very effective in keeping mouths shut and they usually have very specific terms as to when the signed parties can even allude to a deal (I work with NDAs a bit so know their effectiveness).

My suggestion is to continue the enthusiasm for the show and movie, recruit new Browncoates and hope there is something in the works.

As Book would say, Belief will get us through this. A little faith in Joss wouldn't hurt either.


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Friday, January 27, 2006 9:20 AM

GLUEMAN


RiveR6213 Wrote "4 or 8 years from now, would anyone accept the idea of a new Firefly with new people?"

Talk about Cajones! I don’t have a problem with that as long as care was taken in casting.

You better get use to the idea that things the way are will change. That'll take Cajones from everyone!

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Friday, January 27, 2006 9:59 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.


First off, welcome to the site Serena777. It's good to have you here amongst the faithful.

I will admit this is one heck of a thread to ring in your arrival.

I don't think the question here is over whether Joss has the stones to make Serenity fly again, at least it is not in my mind or the mind of anyone that has been around long enough to see how Joss has busted his hump for this show & the movie. I think the question is more one of timing.

The show never had a chance, but that was the fault of Fox & their shortsighted execs, not a lack of love or commitment on Joss' part. To even remotely question his loyalty or the level of his commitment to the show or the fanbase does the man a disservice he does not deserve.

Desire alone is not enough to make Serenity fly again. Were it only that simple the browncoats, Joss & the cast would have had her flying long ago. It takes a studio or network backing you, lots of money, and no legal entanglements with Fox as they (to our knowledge) still own the television rights to the show.

I think that Joss & Universal, like us, are waiting to see how well the movie does on DVD before a decision is made on whether or not a sequel is forthcoming. All we can do in the meantime is push the movie DVD as hard as we can & get the word out to new people. Expanding the fanbase will bring us the numbers to give us a shot at a future.

__________________________________________

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

Richmond, VA & surrounding area Firefly Fans:

http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/richmondbrowncoats/

http://www.richmondbrowncoats.org


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