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GENERAL DISCUSSIONS
I was a HUGE fan of Firefly until last night's episode...
Saturday, December 7, 2002 5:59 AM
FIREFLYCLASSACT
Saturday, December 7, 2002 6:15 AM
ALLRONIX
Saturday, December 7, 2002 6:27 AM
YEAHITSME
Saturday, December 7, 2002 6:28 AM
LIVINGIMPAIRED
Saturday, December 7, 2002 6:31 AM
XERIAR
Saturday, December 7, 2002 6:36 AM
ESME
Saturday, December 7, 2002 6:55 AM
Saturday, December 7, 2002 7:16 AM
SNOWSPINNER
Saturday, December 7, 2002 7:23 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Snowspinner: I'm not really sure how they could have done the plot without showing the Mal/Walsh torture sequence the way that they did. A crucial aspect of the story was what Mal did to keep Walsh from cracking, and the way that Mal did this. You couldn't have taken that scene down in any way without losing the entire story.
Quote:Originally posted by Snowspinner: Was it grusome? Yes. But Firefly is a drama, not a comedy. Dramas show unpleasant and depressing things sometimes.
Quote:Originally posted by Snowspinner: Truth be told, you probably weren't gonna be the liking a Joss Whedon show much in the first place then.
Saturday, December 7, 2002 7:28 AM
Saturday, December 7, 2002 7:35 AM
Quote:Originally posted by YeAhItSme: The show was about how far you can push a man by torturing him that's why they kept refering to the book. So YES the torture scenes were crucial in the story and not just some gratuitous violence...
Saturday, December 7, 2002 7:40 AM
Quote:Originally posted by FireflyClassAct: Quote:Originally posted by Snowspinner: I'm not really sure how they could have done the plot without showing the Mal/Walsh torture sequence the way that they did. A crucial aspect of the story was what Mal did to keep Walsh from cracking, and the way that Mal did this. You couldn't have taken that scene down in any way without losing the entire story. That scene was not *crucial* to the plot of the show.
Saturday, December 7, 2002 7:43 AM
Saturday, December 7, 2002 7:55 AM
Quote: Perhaps it would be clearer if I said that the episode where everyone is off Serenity and the Captain is trying to fix the show before he dies was easily one the best episodes I've seen in the last year. Easily. Really powerful!
Quote: From that to an episode about "...seeing how far a man can be pushed under torture" is just not worth of the show imho.
Saturday, December 7, 2002 7:56 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Snowspinner: That scene was the whole point of the show! The episode was, ultimately, about how Mal and Walsh overcome their differences and jealousies, (Which they both clearly had - keep in mind that Mal explodes at Walsh telling him that he didn't want Zoe to marry him before they find themselves in any torture) and gain respect for one another. Walsh gains respect for Mal because Mal goes to such lengths to keep him alive. Mal gains respect for Walsh because Walsh comes back to fight for him. Furthermore, Walsh comes back for Mal because of what happens in that torture sequence.
Saturday, December 7, 2002 7:59 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Xeriar: Torture, sex, drugs and crime happen, sometimes all at once. I find it far, far worse, personally, to hide these things, to pretend that they never existed, and let the children of the world find all this crap out for themselves. Usually in a bad way. Of course, that's just my opinion.
Saturday, December 7, 2002 8:09 AM
Quote:Originally posted by FireflyClassAct: Tell ya what. Your paragraph has encouraged my wife and I to watch the rest of the episode. Thanks for the insight!
Saturday, December 7, 2002 8:13 AM
Quote:Originally posted by LivingImpaired: Ok, Just curious, but were you critizing an episode THAT YOU NEVER FINISHED WATCHING? I'm sorry, but that just seems... kind of wrong to me.
Saturday, December 7, 2002 8:15 AM
RINGWRAITH
Quote:Originally posted by FireflyClassAct: ...so you have to show every second and not just imply it? ...and if plot lines are sometimes going to be, "...how far you can push a man by torturing him...", then this show really isn't for me. Surely there are other plots more worthy. lol.
Quote: See, here's where I start to have a problem. For starters, I don't do any thing to be politically correct, or politically incorrect, I do what I do in any story because that's what the story points me toward. Anybody who says "It's not necessary" isn't entitled to that judgement, frankly; you don't know what's necessary to the story. And by framing it in the "is this NECESSARY?" way is designed to make you defend your position when such defense isn't the point; is it NECESSARY to have humor? to have a romance? to have correct science? No, *nothing* is NECESSARY. It's what the writer feels is right for that scene, that story, that character. "Oh, well, I saw it, but was all that violence NECESSARY?" This is, frankly, a BS observation usually offered by someone with an agenda, who wishes to invalidate the notion of an artistic view and impose some kind of quota, or objective criterion to what is and isn't necessary for a movie or film. As far as I'm concerned, the first person to throw this into a discussion has, frankly, just lost the argument.
Saturday, December 7, 2002 8:46 AM
DRAUGLUIN
Saturday, December 7, 2002 8:54 AM
Saturday, December 7, 2002 9:12 AM
RAULENDYMION
Saturday, December 7, 2002 9:37 AM
DARKLADY
Saturday, December 7, 2002 10:20 AM
Quote: Yes, acknowledging evil and evil-deeds is important; but, showing them as entertainment makes no sense to me.
Saturday, December 7, 2002 10:44 AM
HJERMSTED
Saturday, December 7, 2002 12:00 PM
ZATHRAS10
Quote:Originally posted by FireflyClassAct: It was a real shocker for a show that started off as pleasant as "Star Trek: The Next Generation" to *linger* over torture. It would have been one thing for the camera to show both men tied up and then cut away and hear them scream,,, but it's quite another for the camera to stay on them while they writhe in pain.
Saturday, December 7, 2002 12:10 PM
GAHERIS
Saturday, December 7, 2002 12:12 PM
Quote:Originally posted by FireflyClassAct: Yes, acknowledging evil and evil-deeds is important; but, showing them as entertainment makes no sense to me. The darkest deeds of man should be best covered in newspapers and history books and not flaunted as entertainment during prime-time.
Saturday, December 7, 2002 12:16 PM
BOBKNAPTOR
Saturday, December 7, 2002 1:20 PM
MERLINDREA
Saturday, December 7, 2002 1:56 PM
Saturday, December 7, 2002 2:10 PM
Saturday, December 7, 2002 2:27 PM
SAINTOFCHEESE
Quote:Originally posted by Zathras10: That said, secondly, have you never seen TNG's "Chain of Command?" Picard being tortured, writhing in pain? "I see four lights?" Meaning no disrespect, but you seem to be viewing both shows through rose-colored glasses that just aren't my prescription.
Saturday, December 7, 2002 2:58 PM
Tuesday, December 10, 2002 12:29 PM
SIGNYM
I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.
Tuesday, December 10, 2002 12:46 PM
HAKEN
Likes to mess with stuffs.
Quote:Originally posted by SignyM: As far as I know, nobody gets zapped like that and continues a conversation. The body goes through all kinds of physiological storms under intense pain. People sweat, go pale, lose bladder control, tremble, grunt, snivel, cry... all kinds of un-pretty things over which they have no control.
Tuesday, December 10, 2002 1:09 PM
Tuesday, December 10, 2002 4:04 PM
ELDOR
Tuesday, December 10, 2002 6:59 PM
ELKA
Tuesday, December 10, 2002 7:06 PM
Wednesday, December 11, 2002 12:18 AM
Wednesday, December 11, 2002 1:23 AM
Wednesday, December 11, 2002 3:18 AM
DOUG
Wednesday, December 11, 2002 6:44 AM
FUCHSIA
Quote:And by framing it in the "is this NECESSARY?" way is designed to make you defend your position when such defense isn't the point; is it NECESSARY to have humor? to have a romance? to have correct science? No, *nothing* is NECESSARY. It's what the writer feels is right for that scene, that story, that character.
Wednesday, December 11, 2002 8:32 AM
IDEFIX
Wednesday, December 11, 2002 9:29 AM
REYVNDARKNIGHT
Wednesday, December 11, 2002 10:48 AM
MANA
Wednesday, December 11, 2002 12:04 PM
SHINY
Quote:Originally posted by Snowspinner: The lesbianism sequence has been explained with the cut scene - with that in place, that sideplot makes a lot more sense.
Wednesday, December 11, 2002 1:28 PM
RHEA
Wednesday, December 11, 2002 1:41 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Shiny: Quote:Originally posted by Snowspinner: The lesbianism sequence has been explained with the cut scene - with that in place, that sideplot makes a lot more sense. Which cut scene was that? Can you explain or post a link to the explanation thread?
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