[SPOILERS] Things I didn't understand from Serenity, and an overly-elaborated theory. by Gortx

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

[SPOILERS] Things I didn't understand from Serenity, and an overly-elaborated theory.

POSTED BY: GORTX
UPDATED: Sunday, October 16, 2005 06:47
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 3624
PAGE 1 of 1

Thursday, October 13, 2005 11:54 PM

Hey, first off, I'm a big Firefly fan and I saw Serenity the first night it was at the cinema, and I think it's all great.

Second, if you haven't seen the movie, LEAVE NOW. I don't wanna ruin it for you. Gone? Good.

A few of things from the movie kinda bugged me. First off, reavers. So we learn that they came from a planet called Miranda, where the Alliance gassed them with some kind of aggression-dulling chemical, and it instead made them hyper-aggressive. What we've seen of them shows that they've got no fear and never stop killing. So why haven't they turned on themselves? You'd think a shipful of psychopaths would be down to 1 psychopath pretty quickly. Likewise a fleet full of ships full of psychopaths would probably wipe each other out in minutes.

Okay, even if you can suspend that bit of disbelief, why is it this massive fleet of psychopaths, having wiped out their entire world, then proceed to simply HANG OUT around said world, instead of launching a massive invasion of other worlds? Sure, there are a couple of scattered raids, but if you're a monstrous killing machine with no fear, you throw yourself at your nearest enemy! You don't establish a perimeter and send a couple of ickle ships out to raid every so often!

Next up, in the scene where Mal is trying to get across the pit of whirling blade things to get to the trasmitter, the Operative (did he have a name?) comes in and shoots him in the back with some kind of sci-fi pistol. Mal winces, then straightens up, and COMPLAINS about it. What the hell was that pistol supposed to do? :) Seems to me the Operative likes special FX guns too much...

Okay, now that my minor niggles with the show are done, here's my theory. You know how none of the crew knew about Miranda, despite the fairly well-known fact that it's a moon of Uranus? Is it possible that they don't know anything about the Solar System? It's also not made clear that the entire Earth-that-was civilisation is actually gone. So it's possible they've recovered while the Alliance and browncoats are squabbling and suchlike, and there's this big empire just out of communications range of the Alliance? Okay.

Now, consider that since Firefly is based heavily off American history, is it possible we'd see a War of Independence style French intervention on the side of the Independents in one of the next two films?

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, October 13, 2005 11:57 PM

GORTX

Oh dear, I didn't see the huge thread about how Reavers can pilot ships. Sorry! :/

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, October 14, 2005 12:10 AM

XEROGRAVITY

Amen Gortx. Before I ever made my first post in these forums I actually made the effort to read thru the threads here. No point starting a new thread on a topic already under discussion.

Enthusiasm from the newly converted is nice, but it also seems to result in an endless repetition of posts on subjects already under discussion.

This particular post smells like "Smarter-than-thou" troll fodder. "Gee whiz I saw the movie you clowns rave about BUT..." . You are the exception to the rule though. You actually went back and read the threads, and retracted. Kudos.

XG

No such thing as gravity. The "Earth-that-was" just sucks.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, October 14, 2005 3:51 AM

MER

All planets look alike. They left the Milky Way galaxy ages ago.

They're in the new galaxy, with terriformed planets....and one newly terriformed planet (at the time) which you know the story of. I kind of wonder if they even acknowledged Miranda in news broadcasts. Maybe not.

Oh and if there's Woman Reavers. ^_^ lol or even children Reavers. Babies too.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, October 14, 2005 4:32 AM

PHOENIXSHIP

This part is a little off-topic, but I finally got the chance to see the movie, and I wanted to thank everyone. I've been hanging about these boards for months, and no one ever even hinted about the MAJOR, MAJOR plot events that take place. I couldn't believe when Book, and then Wash died. It's nice to see a screenwriter take dramatic chances, and not play it safe for once. And it's comforting to know that even though they're dead, in true Joss style, they will almost certainly make a return appearance at some point.

I almost teared up when River said: "You always take care of me."

My question is: why didn't Mal kill the operative when he had him at gunpoint in the anteroom of the generator? His blood was still boiling, and that was the only real thing standing in the way of gettin the signal out.

By the way, I REALLY liked the actor who played the operative.

"Why're you arguin' what's already been decided?"
Mal to Jayne, "Jaynestown"

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, October 14, 2005 4:37 AM

GWEK

A few good questions. Not really sure about the Reavers, and, as stated, there appear to be whole threads dedicated to the concept. So, on to other stuff:

As MER sort of stated, humanity is no longer in our solar system, so Uranus and it's moons are no longer a factor. I believe MER is incorrect, however, in stating that mankind "left the Milky Way." We simply found another SOLAR SYSTEM within the same galaxy (Milky Way) with dozens of planets and moons that were terraformable (how the science of that works is beyond me, but, hey, sci fi)...

Regardless, the main point is that wherever man is now, it's nowhere near Uranus (insert appropriate joke here).

As for the useless gun, we've seen previously that (in the episode "Ariel") that the Alliance "energy blasters" aren't nearly as effective as the slugthrowers the our Big Damned Antiheroes use. My guess is that the Alliance employs some sort of neural/stunny thing, like a taser of somesuch. If that's the case, it's possible that it's ineffectiveness against Mal is a very subtle foreshadowing of the nerve cluster comment a few minutes later.

As for your theory about a "French" intervention... It's possible, but I don't necessarily see it playing out that way. If mankind IS still lingering around Earth-that-was and hasn't contacted "the colonies" to this point, there's probably a reason, and I don't see Earthers stepping in during a war in any sort of helpful fashion (unless it was to, ultimately, selflishing undermine one or both sides). This IS Joss Whedon after all: authority=bad.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, October 14, 2005 4:43 AM

GWEK

Mal didn't kill the Operative because he's a great man.

Well, he's a good man.

Okay he's alright...

Seriously, though, the mercy is a bit out of character, but I think he's just so tired of all the killing and death that he doesn't want to contribute to it any more.

Killing the Operative once he's down would be danged close to murder (justifiable, sure), and that's not the way Mal does things. Heck, he let Niska live after the old coot tortured him to death, so maybe he's growing as a person...

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, October 14, 2005 5:03 AM

IMALEAF

I think they are all very good points but one thing you have to keep in mind is that the reavers are crazy. Finding reasons for their actions are pointless. I am pretty sure crazy people have reasons for what it is they do but sane people don't understand those reasons. That is sort of where the difference between sane and insane comes in. Some things hunt in packs, so they can be stronger and overpower their victims. Even crazy people need company.

And in a theory to why reavers hang out around Miranda, I would guess the same reason serial killers murder in their own towns, it is known to them. Also in concern to the reavers I think maybe you misunderstand the want to die with the no fear of dieing. Just because the reavers are not afraid to attack people and risk their lives doing so doesn't mean they WANT to die. "Massive invasions" would be a suicide mission.

And in response the scene with the Operative, not giving him a human name keeps from letting the audience relates to him in anyway, preventing any sympathy or empathy. It makes him less human and more evil at the same time, it is perfect and not the only movie where they do this with a character. And well as for the Operative not shooting Mal with a real guy, I think just because he wanted to play with his sword.

And to be honest I didn’t know what you meant by the moon this, aren’t they in a different solar system???

Feed Back Please 

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, October 15, 2005 5:12 AM

MER

Quote:
Originally posted by GWEK:
As MER sort of stated, humanity is no longer in our solar system, so Uranus and it's moons are no longer a factor. I believe MER is incorrect, however, in stating that mankind "left the Milky Way." We simply found another SOLAR SYSTEM within the same galaxy (Milky Way) with dozens of planets and moons that were terraformable (how the science of that works is beyond me, but, hey, sci fi)...

Yea they actually didn't state that they left the milky way. I've always saw it as that b/c of the way it's been told to me. Apparently the way the script has it in the companion book as them just going straight till they found another sun and planets...even though in that little history article they pinpointed a star that had its own mini galaxy.

Sorry forthe confusion! I only had it half right lol. I should ought to look things up on this type of stuff before posting.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, October 16, 2005 12:08 AM

DONCOAT

Actually, it can sometimes be very revealing, the way people perceive/remember those details.

Of course, not everyone is particularly savvy about astronomy, or realizes just how far it is to even the nearest other galaxy. Such journeys will be beyond our abilities for, well, maybe forever. Even the nearest *star* is thousands of years away at the fastest speeds we've achieved to date.

It doesn't help when characters within Firefly/Serenity throw the term "galaxy" around lightly, as in "the greatest minds in the galaxy" and the like...

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, October 16, 2005 1:09 AM

RABBIT2

It always makes me wince when people, some times quite intelligent ones use terms like `Galaxy` and `Intergalactic` in the way they do.
I suppose that deep down a lot of people think the entire `verse revolves around them, (I LOVE that contraction) particularly in Hollywood.
I suppose that the line of dialog delivered by the operative shows that people hav`nt changed that much in the future but this sort of blooper is very much in the best tradition of SF film making.
Remember "She`s the ship that made the Kessel run in less than five Parsec`s"
I suspect that the actual story of the destruction of Earth and the migration to a new star was a much more complex affair taking decades, or even a century or so. The people in this system probably dont know all that happened towards the end, just stories of a war beween the two remaining superpowers (America and China according to Joss)told by refugees from the last colony ships to arrive (There are no Warp, Jump or Hyper drives in Joss`s `Verse just very good sub light engines).

As to why Mal did`nt kill the operative, well he was totally beaten by that point so killing him would be murder. Furthermore, Mal knows that the operative has justified his actions by telling himself that it is all for the long term common good so, by showing him what he has been actually protecting he is undermining the poor guy`s entire belief system. Killing him would be easier by comparison.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, October 16, 2005 1:52 AM

GROUNDED

Quote:
Originally posted by GWEK:
Mal didn't kill the Operative because he's a great man.

Well, he's a good man.

Okay he's alright...

Seriously, though, the mercy is a bit out of character, but I think he's just so tired of all the killing and death that he doesn't want to contribute to it any more.

Killing the Operative once he's down would be danged close to murder (justifiable, sure), and that's not the way Mal does things. Heck, he let Niska live after the old coot tortured him to death, so maybe he's growing as a person...

Mal didn't kill him because forcing him to see that his belief was so deeply unfounded was a far crueler punishment. Plus I suspect the Alliance forces aren't going to be disposed to mercy when they find their commanding officer dead...

Oh and on the topic of 'things I didn't understand from Serenity', what is that injection Simon gives Mal during the opening tour of the ship? Not sure if this has been discussed elsewhere.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, October 16, 2005 2:23 AM

DONCOAT

Quote:
Originally posted by Grounded:

Oh and on the topic of 'things I didn't understand from Serenity', what is that injection Simon gives Mal during the opening tour of the ship? Not sure if this has been discussed elsewhere.

A standard innoculation for immunization. At the start of his conversation with Simon, Mal says "Guess I need to get innocked 'fore we hit planetside."

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, October 16, 2005 5:05 AM

DECLAN

Quote:
Originally posted by DonCoat:
Quote:
Originally posted by Grounded:

Oh and on the topic of 'things I didn't understand from Serenity', what is that injection Simon gives Mal during the opening tour of the ship? Not sure if this has been discussed elsewhere.
A standard innoculation for immunization. At the start of his conversation with Simon, Mal says "Guess I need to get innocked 'fore we hit planetside."

Ah! An unsolicted thanks from me, also, because I didn't hear that line and I've been wondering the same thing about the shot. Much as love our Captain/Nathan and the accent... there are times when I wish for better elocution. Oh, well, I guess that's what the DVD subtitles are for.

***************
"'Course, there are other schools of thought."

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, October 16, 2005 5:05 AM

DECLAN

Quote:
Originally posted by DonCoat:
Quote:
Originally posted by Grounded:

Oh and on the topic of 'things I didn't understand from Serenity', what is that injection Simon gives Mal during the opening tour of the ship? Not sure if this has been discussed elsewhere.
A standard innoculation for immunization. At the start of his conversation with Simon, Mal says "Guess I need to get innocked 'fore we hit planetside."

***************
"'Course, there are other schools of thought."

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, October 16, 2005 5:31 AM

DONCOAT

Quote:
Originally posted by Declan:
Much as love our Captain/Nathan and the accent... there are times when I wish for better elocution.

Or better theaters.

I saw the BDM again last night. The theater was a new one for me (the 5th screen and 4th cineplex I've seen it at). While generally good, this particular theater had the dialog channel too low (and/or the surround channels too high) so that the dialog got washed out in scenes with a lot of background noise.

Of course, the scene we're talking about is one of those, what with the rough reentry and all. If I hadn't already seen the movie in a room with a proper sound setup, I might have blamed the actors too.

Actually, I'm getting pretty peeved at the general level of quality control at the theaters. Only one of the cineplexes I've been to had really top-notch sound and picture. How do they expect to compete with home DVD if they don't ensure they're giving the best possible experience to their paying customers? [/rant]

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, October 16, 2005 6:47 AM

GUERILLATHEATRE

Quote:
What we've seen of them shows that they've got no fear and never stop killing. So why haven't they turned on themselves?

First, you must understand that the Reavers are not psychopaths. They are humans lacking both the Ego and the Super Ego and completely driven by the ID. They are animals and driven by instinct, but not psychopaths.

That said, look at the animal kingdom. Wolves are very aggressive animals. They will hunt and kill humans, dogs, etc... but they do not turn on their own. They will fight one another to establish a societal structure but they don't kill each other. Think of Reavers in that light and it should make sense.

Quote:
why is it this massive fleet of psychopaths, having wiped out their entire world, then proceed to simply HANG OUT around said world, instead of launching a massive invasion of other worlds?

Again, use the wolves analogy. Wolves don't slaughter entire herds of prey animals. They kill what they need and leave the rest. Reavers, driven by the same instincts are very similar.

Also, it should be noted that a missive invasion would require a great deal of strategy, the ability for which the Reavers have not been shown to possess. These aren't Borg.

Finally, ask yourself this question: "Why would the Reavers want to invade other worlds?" Wolves don't invade the territory of other animals to build massive wolf empires. In fact, most animals don't. Colonization and Invasion seem to be unique human qualities. Reavers have lost most of those things that define them as human.

Quote:
the Operative (did he have a name?) comes in and shoots him in the back with some kind of sci-fi pistol. Mal winces, then straightens up, and COMPLAINS about it. What the hell was that pistol supposed to do? :) Seems to me the Operative likes special FX guns too much...

The Operative did not have a name.

Now, to the question: The shot in the back was an attention getter. The Operative, if you follow his story arc, is established as a man walking a path very similar to the Bushido path of the Samurai. A Samurai would never stab a man in the back. He would lose his honor. A Samurai would only kill a man that he has seen face to face. That is the reason that the Samurai believe Ninjas were without honor. Ninjas used stealth and surprise to defeat their enemeies while the Samurai would fight them directly.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

YOUR OPTIONS

SHARE THREAD

NEW POSTS TODAY

USER	POST DATE

USER

POST DATE