REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Sandy Hook 'truthers' harass Newtown man, conspiracy theories go viral

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Sunday, February 3, 2013 00:47
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VIEWED: 3609
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Thursday, January 17, 2013 11:41 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

With talk of a second shooter, Israeli death squads, and connections to “The Dark Knight Rises,” the Sandy Hook shooting has joined the ranks of other tragedies associated with conspiracy theories.

Just days after 20 first-graders and six adults were shot and killed at the school in Newtown, Conn., alternative theories and wild claims began circulating. In recent days, one Newtown man who helped survivors of the shooting has come under attack.

Some of the conjectures have arisen out of distrust of the government and media outlets. In other cases, they've gotten traction because they offer an explanation, when the "why" of the shooting has been elusive. A desire to deflect blame, for example away from guns, could also be at work.

“The Web seems to be the new home of the conspiracy theory. It’s where conspiracy theories live, because the Web is so good at virally spreading around these kinds of little stories,” says Jeffrey L. Pasley, an associate professor of history at the University of Missouri in Columbia, where he teaches a class on conspiracy theories.

Individuals questioning the mainstream account of events have already been dubbed Sandy Hook truthers. They're turning to websites like SandyHookHoax.com, questionable photos, and YouTube videos that take issue with reporting on the day of the shooting.

One person the truthers have zeroed in on is Gene Rosen, a Newtown man who took in six terrified students the morning of the shooting. He gave interviews to various media outlets afterward, and since then, he's been accused of being an actor paid to play a part. Fake Facebook profiles have been created in his name, and footage of the interviews with him has been edited and reposted, purportedly proving that Mr. Rosen is an actor.

“I don’t know what to do,” Rosen, a retired psychologist, told Salon. “I’m getting hang-up calls, I’m getting some calls, I’m getting e-mails with, not direct threats, but accusations that I’m lying, that I’m a crisis actor, ‘How much am I being paid?' ”

The underlying theme in all the theories is that the media, the government, and Obama administration specifically either manipulated or orchestrated the shooting to move political opinion on gun control. In particular, a comprehensive truther video focuses on discrepancies in initial reporting about the number and types of guns used by Adam Lanza.

Conspiracy theories are often used as a way of deflecting blame, Professor Pasley says. “If you’re a gun owner, you don’t want it all blamed on your group. So you adopt a conspiracy theory that blames it on someone else,” he says.

Some truthers have questioned whether the shooting happened at all. On Dec. 20, James Tracy, a Florida Atlantic University tenured professor of communication, wrote a well-sourced blog post, and later gave media interviews, arguing that contradictions in initial reporting proved that the Sandy Hook shooting was simply a “made-for-television storyline.” He placed responsibility with the mass media, saying they blindly believed and reported what officials told them.

After public criticism of Professor Tracy and the university, he backpedaled a bit, insisting his blog post was simply a way to encourage news consumers to think critically. But he still implied he takes issue with the basic facts that were reported about the shooting.

Although other media outlets have reported the harassment of Rosen in detail, The Atlantic is one of the few news organizations to actually parse some of the theories and debunk them. It tackled the theory of a second shooter, reporting that a man whom police had initially pursued was most likely the father of a Sandy Hook student who was on the school grounds after the shooting.

Other media outlets, notably The New York Times, apologized for inaccurate reports when news of the shooting broke. Much of the “evidence” cited by conspiracy theorists is reporting that was later clarified.

While most observers understand that inaccurate reporting happens immediately after a chaotic event, the conspiratorial mind sees contradictions as "misinformation and lies," or holes in the official story. http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2013/0116/Sandy-Hook-truthers-harass-Newt
own-man-conspiracy-theories-go-viral


When it comes to some people, there simply are no words...

All I can think of is all those parents who've lost beloved children, hearing about this or even being confronted about it!

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Thursday, January 17, 2013 1:40 PM

JONGSSTRAW


Sandy Hook hoaxters
9/11 truthers
birthers
Apollo moon fakers
Ruby Ridgers
Waco whackos
Pirate News
Walking Dead viewers
Jerry Springer audiences
Lance Armstrong believers
etc. ect. etc.

These are some of the gene cesspoolers from which insane mass murderers arise. In the interest of public safety they should all be lobotomized or at least have their amygdalas removed.



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Thursday, January 17, 2013 3:26 PM

CHRISISALL

Down the centuries you have slurred the meaning of the words, WE THE PEOPLE...


If the government didn't barefacedly LIE to Americans throughout the decades about stuff, the conspiracy theory nuts would have nothing to work with.
Just sayin'.

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Thursday, January 17, 2013 3:53 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)







That's every bit as valid as the Hooksters and their bullshit.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Friday, January 18, 2013 2:10 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
If the government didn't barefacedly LIE to Americans throughout the decades about stuff, the conspiracy theory nuts would have nothing to work with.
Just sayin'.


Unfortunately that's too close to home for any kinda comfort - what started it in this case was them very deliberately lying to create the impression that Lanza used an "Assault Rifle", when in truth it was left in the back seat of the vehicle, and this without a doubt provoked the conspiracy theorists, as did the admittedly suspicious timing of it after an earlier mass shooting attempt FAILED, due to said "Assault Rifle" malfunctioning, an armed civvie present, and a security response that for once did the job completely right.

What creates the mindset is when a person who has believed in the system comes up against something so mind-shattering that it blows the supports out from under their entire existence, the oh-god-what-else-did-they-lie-about effect, at which point their grip on sanity starts slipping, ESPECIALLY if this is then compounded by finding evidence of even more lies about things they once believed, and it can indeed spiral straight down into a form of mental illness, or at least near-permanent suspicion and mistrust...

The worst cases usually come about by not just having that event, but witnessing/participating in, something so heinous, so awful, that it has a downright lovecraftian effect on their sanity and personhood, which often presents itself as an active MALICE towards folks whom they secretly envy for their ignorant bliss - Alex Jones and Pirate News are good examples of this.

Of course, a different fate awaits those who knowingly plunge headfirst into darkness to wrestle the beast up close and personal, but the difference is in both intent and expectation, and in such a case usually the less nice/noble/decent a person is, the better they weather the experience, although no walks away from that unchanged.

Anyhows, the endless barrage of lies is in fact the source of these things, but the initial spark is usually a specific one, rather than the plethora, that just compounds the damage, is all.

-Frem

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Friday, January 18, 2013 12:42 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Good one, Mike. Prize for first giggle of the day. And yes, it makes just as much sense.

There IS validity to the fact that we've been lied to so many times, and enough actual conspiracies have been discovered, that it's not surprising some people distrust anything and everything, and see conspiracies around every corner. But it takes people missing something important to go to the lengths some of these do, and to believe virtually EVERYTHING is a conspiracy!

Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.

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Friday, January 18, 2013 1:31 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Well, darn - my favorite part of it didn't come along in the cut-n-paste of that pic. The guy who did it (Surly Thor) had the caption "Clever Girl..." on it, which just makes it more hilarious.

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Friday, January 18, 2013 8:04 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
There IS validity to the fact that we've been lied to so many times, and enough actual conspiracies have been discovered, that it's not surprising some people distrust anything and everything, and see conspiracies around every corner. But it takes people missing something important to go to the lengths some of these do, and to believe virtually EVERYTHING is a conspiracy!


Yeah, well, a large part of that is them feeling cut off and cast adrift, with nothing left to cling to *BUT* those beliefs, so they keep doubling down till they wind up like that... same way Rightwingnuts keep doubling down on obvious lies, cause they cannot admit the wrong without admission that they've based some portion of their entire life on a lie, the mindset just doesn't allow for it.

-F

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Friday, January 18, 2013 9:54 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!




It's a good thing zero physical evidence has been presented to the public that any shooting took place, with zero eyewitnesses... Not even any video of the "evacuation" of students.



Dictator Hussein Obama uses Sandy Hook to ban guns for 50-million Americans, cops arrest "off-duty SWAT cop from another jurisdiction" hiding in woods at Sandy Hook School during "shooting"
http://piratenews-tv.blogspot.com/2013/01/sandy-hook-bans-guns-for-50-
million.html


Sandy Hook shooting predicted in Dark Knight Rises, Newtown is world HQ for Church of Satan
http://piratenews-tv.blogspot.com/2013/01/sandy-hook-bans-guns-for-50-
million.html


BREAKING NEWS: Sandy Hook Press Conference
http://piratenews-tv.blogspot.com/2013/01/sandy-hook-bans-guns-for-50-
million.html


Taft School Shooting "Drill" Goes Live With Real Shooting (just like Sandy Hook and 9/11 and 7/7)
http://memoryholeblog.com/2013/01/16/taft-union-high-school-drill-beco
mes-real-life
/


www.crisisactors.org




















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Saturday, January 19, 2013 4:09 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:









Because she's a clever girl ?



"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Saturday, January 19, 2013 4:25 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
If the government didn't barefacedly LIE to Americans throughout the decades about stuff, the conspiracy theory nuts would have nothing to work with.
Just sayin'.



You're thinking of Roswell, NM, aren't ya ?



"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Saturday, January 19, 2013 8:09 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Very well said, Frem.

Yeah, Mike, that does increase the Giggle Factor.

Sigh, gawd, I'm sick of wearing out my scrolling finger to get past PN's bullshit...

Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.

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Sunday, January 20, 2013 12:48 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

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Sunday, January 20, 2013 9:44 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


Our society is humped when people who help others are treated meanly like that, leave the guy alone for goodness sake. Sometimes people make me very sad. :(

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Sunday, January 20, 2013 10:54 PM

SHINYGOODGUY


Sad, but true. Both the government and the media have a wretched track record when it comes to the truth.

I was home that day when I turned on the news to see the latest on the political landscape and I come across the news bulletin regarding the Sandy Hook massacre. There was much confusion on the part of the news team reporting the incident, partly because they were trying to "outscoop" the other news outlets and get the exclusive.

At one point I felt like a vulture waiting for the deadly news. But once I heard children were victims, it struck a chord. It felt very strange what was going on in front of me. But I turned off the TV after a while and sat wondering who could do such a thing. Then I thought that the info could be wrong, every minute that went by the story changed. Rush to judgment comes to mind.


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:
Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
If the government didn't barefacedly LIE to Americans throughout the decades about stuff, the conspiracy theory nuts would have nothing to work with.
Just sayin'.


Unfortunately that's too close to home for any kinda comfort - what started it in this case was them very deliberately lying to create the impression that Lanza used an "Assault Rifle", when in truth it was left in the back seat of the vehicle, and this without a doubt provoked the conspiracy theorists, as did the admittedly suspicious timing of it after an earlier mass shooting attempt FAILED, due to said "Assault Rifle" malfunctioning, an armed civvie present, and a security response that for once did the job completely right.

What creates the mindset is when a person who has believed in the system comes up against something so mind-shattering that it blows the supports out from under their entire existence, the oh-god-what-else-did-they-lie-about effect, at which point their grip on sanity starts slipping, ESPECIALLY if this is then compounded by finding evidence of even more lies about things they once believed, and it can indeed spiral straight down into a form of mental illness, or at least near-permanent suspicion and mistrust...

The worst cases usually come about by not just having that event, but witnessing/participating in, something so heinous, so awful, that it has a downright lovecraftian effect on their sanity and personhood, which often presents itself as an active MALICE towards folks whom they secretly envy for their ignorant bliss - Alex Jones and Pirate News are good examples of this.

Of course, a different fate awaits those who knowingly plunge headfirst into darkness to wrestle the beast up close and personal, but the difference is in both intent and expectation, and in such a case usually the less nice/noble/decent a person is, the better they weather the experience, although no walks away from that unchanged.

Anyhows, the endless barrage of lies is in fact the source of these things, but the initial spark is usually a specific one, rather than the plethora, that just compounds the damage, is all.

-Frem


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Sunday, January 20, 2013 11:01 PM

SHINYGOODGUY


I heard one "theory" that Obama and the government set this up so as to "repeal" the 2nd Amendment.

I mourn for this country. What braniac would come up with such a morbid thought?

Yeah, and Obama caused Sandy to land in the NY/NJ area so that he could look like a hero just before election. Damn, the president is THAT good!!!!

And Ichobod Crane was a real character!!!


SGG

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Monday, January 21, 2013 1:06 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Rush to judgment comes to mind.


You know what came to mind for me ?
Standing in the middle of that road with a STOP sign, AGAIN.
And being hated on and flamed, AGAIN.

And I went and did it anyway, cause somebody has to.

-Frem

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Monday, January 21, 2013 1:19 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
I heard one "theory" that Obama and the government set this up so as to "repeal" the 2nd Amendment.

I mourn for this country. What braniac would come up with such a morbid thought?


The same kind of braniacs who cooked up Operation Northwoods ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

More specifically the same kind of braniacs who cooked up the notion of deliberately putting weapons in the hands of the cartels in order to manufacture excuses to go after the rights of law abiding citizens ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_scandal

Mind you, while heavily and deliberately propagandized during and after the fact, I don't think the tragedy of Sandy Hook was influenced by outside factors...

But that The Powers That Be are CAPABLE of such atrocities ?
Oh hell yes.
They've proven it, and stuff like NORTHWOODS, MOCKINGBIRD, COINTELPRO, REX84, CONPLAN7, and various other horrors, those weren't conspiracies, they weren't *theories*, they were the official fucking documented policy of the United States Government - which is something that rooks me bad when folks howl conspiracy theory about certain things, cause how much evidence do they freakin need ?
I mean I can see debate on something where the facts are not known, but when they are, when it's admitted outright, or committed to documentation as official policy, it's NO LONGER A "THEORY".

Sorry SGG, not directed at you, just... how far people will deny the obvious when they do not wish to believe it, or believe people or governments capable of it, even when solid evidence exists.

And yeah verily, folks like PN throwing all manner of random bullshit into it doesn't help matters any either, but I understand his reaction more than I do the out of hand denial and dismissal, you know ?

-Frem

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Monday, January 21, 2013 2:17 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Who cares what a senile old member of the Screen Actors Guild says about kids at Satanic Sandy Hook during a crisis acting drill?

Meanwhile Dictator Hussein Obama signed 43 Top Secret Presidential Memorandums to ban self-defense from 50-million Amerikans, and killed a few thousand babies.
http://droneswatch.org/2013/01/20/list-of-children-killed-by-drone-str
ikes-in-pakistan-and-yemen
/

Quote:



Is Being a Dupe a Mental Disorder?

In order to save the children the entire country must be evaluated for mental disorders says the latest proclamations from our fearless leader.

Got the flu? Your doctor must ask if you own guns. A high fever might send you over the edge and threaten the lives of everyone around you. Before the Tamiflu can be prescribed you must fill out a questionnaire developed by the best of our psychiatrists. Answer any of the questions incorrectly and there are plenty of anti-psychotic medications available to help. Of course the local police must pay a visit to your home and take away anything that may assist you in carrying out the latent violent tendencies you possess.

The most relevant questions regarding one's mental stability will not be asked.

Do you believe everything the government and mainstream media tell you?

Do you trust your government to always work in your best interests?

Are you dismissive of the ideas of false flag attacks, black op mass shootings and mind control or propaganda techniques to control you?

Do you support the wars of our empire, surveillance of your every move, detention without charges and even assassination of American citizens perceived by government to be terrorists or threats to the status quo?

Is security, even if based on dubious intentions, more important than rights?

Would you turn in your neighbor who expresses anti-establishment thoughts for thirty pieces of silver?

If you answered yes to any or all of the above questions you may be a dupe.

It is not illegal to be a dupe but is it a modern mental illness? Current medical authorities may say no but others may disagree.

In our upside down world answering no to these questions puts you at risk. Group-think must be the norm.

We should not be too judgmental. All of us are duped at one time or the other. Calling people names never works. Encouraging others to read between the lines and come to their own conclusions may be about all we can do.

http://kennysideshow.blogspot.com/2013/01/is-being-dupe-mental-disorde
r.html






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Monday, January 21, 2013 6:41 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


PN feels the hot breath of mental health checks on the back of his neck. Sorry PN, but everybody knows you're a schizo who has only one foot in the real world. Anyone who can believe in a Nazi- Jewish- Socialist- Knights Templar- Moloch -Kenyan- Muslim conspiracy doesn't understand that rich people in ALL societies are assholes. You don't need a 3000-year unbroken reign of secret handshakes and intermarriages to forge an upper crust that is as brutal as it is self-serving. Just set up a system where a sociopath filters to the top, add a nation's communication infrastructure and a lot of heavy weaponry, bake at a trillion dollars for ten yeas and viola!. Another member joins the club, old bean.

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Monday, January 21, 2013 6:50 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Good one, Sig!

Oh, I have no DOUBT there are those convinced he's gonna try and do away with the Second Amendment, no doubt whatsoever. Some have even said it on TV, like on FauxNews, and it's a common fear motivator by the NRA.

Frem, you're not saying you actually BELIEVE this conspiracy theory, are you? That would just be too much to swallow, it would depress me greatly!



Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.

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Monday, January 21, 2013 9:53 AM

FREMDFIRMA



Feh, there *IS* no great-grand-conspiracy, that's where all these folks like PN get it all wrong, along with being confused by their own mental issues.

As I have said, what there is... is a thousand little petty ones all jumbled in with office politics, ass covering, blamestorming and fingerpointing, all tripping over each other and sabotaging each other and half the time the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing anyway, and thanks be for that, or they'd run us over in no time flat.

But like crabs marching in lockstep across a beach cause their cognition is so limited they all react the same way to identical stimulus, those in power APPEAR to act in concert, not because they are but rather that the drives they share unite them, avarice, ambition, feelings of superiority, and by weight of numbers amplified by the immense amount of power placed in their hands by damn fools willing to obey their orders, all too often despite their absolute incompetence they manage to accomplish their goals anyway in the socio-political form of a brute force attack.

That the bastards of this world, too many of which are in positions of power, are CAPABLE of atrocities beyond imagining is not in doubt, worth remembering I came pretty close to being sucked into helping commit them at one time, and happen to be more familar than I'd like about the mindset that creates them - what I think is no longer as possible, and certainly not as easy, is for them to get away with it unchallenged, not only has public consciousness expanded and skepticism become more common, there's just too many lines of communication for them to keep real secrets from folk hell bent on knowing - the truth, or at least enough of it, ALWAYS comes out, somebody ALWAYS talks, even and especially if they ain't supposed to, not to mention suppressing information once it's gotten loose is IMPOSSIBLE.

Cases in point: The additional devices recovered from within the federal building in Oklahoma, and the radio traffic logs they missed in their purge, or Scoop Jacksons plot to stage a coup in all but name - which was later adapted by the Neocons, who had those files retroactively classified to cover their ass... but you cannot take BACK information once someone has it, and despite all efforts to the contrary the internet remains a bastion of information freedom.

So instead of suiciding a couple people and burning some paper, in this era once info "gets loose", it can travel the WORLD in seconds, become archived in a thousand places in less than half an hour - how do they stop that ?
They can't.
This has provided a serious check against such things, in my opinion, cause now the internet has become the all-seeing-eye of Sauron to them, so the depth of depravity to which they'll stoop has waned a little, moving them to try doing this stuff in the open behind layers of legal justifications (Gitmo, Torture, Drone strikes) and we shouldn't tolerate that any more than we would have when it was done in secret.

But given the things that HAVE been done, that ARE being done, it bothers me that so many peoples default reaction is "But they would never do that!" even when the evidence is clear that they have, they are - the same *kind* of denial rightwingnuts suffer from, giant psychological blind spots, which are ruthlessly exploited by the powers-that-be.
I think that is in it's own way as much a problem as PN's ranting, moreso because it's not so OBVIOUSLY detrimental.

It didn't take a massive conspiracy to start some serious bullshit over the tragedy at Sandy Hook, all it took was one lie - a lie that the media doubled down on initially cause it got them attention, viewers, money, by yanking the knee-jerk chain - a lie not told with an agenda beyond greed and sensationalism, but a lie all the same.
That lie being that Lanza used an "Assault Rifle" in his act of madness, when it fact it remained on the back seat of the vehicle, originally tossed out for no better reason than greed, then seized on by others who *DID* have agendas, and amplified exponentially at folk too upset to use reason, in order to push those agendas.

Not so much a great-grand-conspiracy as an act of irresponsible reporting and greed, turned malice by the very cauldron of self-interest our society has become, and used as bait to get people who ought to know better to do what others wanted.

Of course, with such cross-purposes and chaos, there's always unintended consequences as well, if any good will come of it along the road to proper mental health care in this county I shall push that along if I can, but not at the expense of stuff remeniscent of soviet re-education centers, so it's a fine line I gotta pay a lot of mind to when deciding where to stand.
And then there is the whole human rights aspect to consider, because I don't differentiate, I don't pick and choose, which makes this a damn tricky proposition sometimes, you see ?

Not to mention the personal consequences - not here so much, but elsewhere, many of the very people whos rights and personhood I stood up for in respect to being able to love and marry who they wish and have that respected equally, find themselves opposed when I stand up for the rights of others to possess what I consider nothing more than mere tools, and neither side of that sees the hypocrisy of the fact that they would deny rights the other values.
And both of em despise me for it.

Par for the course, in my little world.
Some days I feel I am rather fortunate to be emotionally stunted, yanno ?

-Frem

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Monday, January 21, 2013 6:09 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!




FEMA School Shooting Drill L-366 near Sandy Hook at same time as the alleged shootings, CrisisActors.org performs realistic mass shootings in schools and shopping malls
http://www.ct.gov/demhs/ical/eventDetail_page.asp?date_ID=CAC9C6C9CD83
CDC9C7

http://www.ctemscouncils.org/downloads/FEMAL366.pdf



Social Security Death Index says Adam Lanza died one day before alleged shootings at Sandy hook
http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2013/01/ssdi-death-index-sandy-ho
ok-shooter-adam-lanza-died-one-day-before-school-massacre-2-2541900.html




Quote:

Active Shooter Crisis Actors Target Mall Shootings via Visionbox


Active Shooter Crisis Actors Target Mall Shootings via Visionbox

DENVER, CO, October 31, 2012 -- A new group of actors is now available nationwide for active shooter drills and mall shooting full-scale exercises, announced Visionbox, Denver's leading professional actors studio.

Visionbox Crisis Actors are trained in criminal and victim behavior, and bring intense realism to simulated mass casualty incidents in public places.

The actors’ stage acting experience, ranging from Shakespeare to contemporary American theater, enables them to "stay in character" throughout an exercise, and improvise scenes of extreme stress while strictly following official exercise scenarios.

The actors regularly rehearse scenarios involving the Incident Command System and crisis communications, and appear in interactive training films produced in both 2D and stereoscopic 3D.

Producers Jennifer McCray Rincon and John Simmons formed the group to demonstrate emerging security technologies, help first responders visualize life-saving procedures, and assist trainers in delivering superior hands-on crisis response training.

For example, with a large shopping center, the producers review all security camera views and design dramatic scenes specifically for existing camera angles, robotic camera sweeps, and manually-controlled camera moves.

The producers then work with the trainers to create a "prompt book" for the actors so that key scenario developments can be triggered throughout the mall shooting simulation, and caught on tape.

The actors can play the part of the shooters, mall employees, shoppers in the mall, shoppers who continue to arrive at the mall, media reporters and others rushing to the mall, and persons in motor vehicles around the mall.

Visionbox Crisis Actors can also play the role of citizens calling 911 or mall management, or posting comments on social media websites.

During the exercise, the producers use two-way radio to co-direct the Crisis Actors team from the mall dispatch center and at actors’ locations.

Within this framework, the exercise can test the mall's monitoring and communications systems, the mall's safety plan including lockdown and evacuation procedures, the ability of first responders and the mall to coordinate an effective response, and their joint ability to respond to the media and information posted on the Internet.

Security camera footage is edited for after-action reports and future training.

For more information visit www.Visionbox.org and www.CrisisActors.org.

Visionbox is a project of the Colorado Nonprofit Development Center. Crisis Actors is a project of the Colorado Safety Task Force established by Colorado State Senator Steve King.

Contact:
Nathan Bock
Amanda Brown
(720) 810-1641
info@visionbox.org
www.CrisisActors.org




6 Completely Legal Ways The Cops Can Screw You (includes lots of lying)
www.cracked.com/article_18620_6-completely-legal-ways-cops-can-screw-y
ou.html



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Monday, January 21, 2013 9:45 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!



Shooter drill at Rose Pre School in Sandy Hook faked by CNN as live at Sandy Hook Elementary

The shite is gettign very deep now, thanks to NSA Google's spysats. CT governor confessed on TV to Obama paying him millions of dollars to run the Sandy Hook gun-grab payop codenamed PROJECT LONGEVITY, that the actual "shooting" was a drill at a nearby school according to live video on CNN professing to be the "Sandy Hook shooting":
http://www.pakalertpress.com/2013/01/20/update-sandy-hook-smoking-gun-
revealed-factions-of-government-law-enforcement-and-mainstream-media-including-anderson-cooper-engaged-in-treason-against-the-united-states-and-its-citizens
/


Sandy Hook elementary (note painted lines on crosswalk)


Rose Pre School in Sandy Hook (note painted lines on crosswalk)

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Tuesday, January 22, 2013 5:43 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:
Unfortunately that's too close to home for any kinda comfort - what started it in this case was them very deliberately lying to create the impression that Lanza used an "Assault Rifle", when in truth it was left in the back seat of the vehicle, and this without a doubt provoked the conspiracy theorists, as did the admittedly suspicious timing of it after an earlier mass shooting attempt FAILED, due to said "Assault Rifle" malfunctioning, an armed civvie present, and a security response that for once did the job completely right.



Also interesting that the video I've seen of cops finding a long gun in the trunk of a car does NOT show a Bushmaster. The officer clearing the weapon is pulling a charging handle on the right side of the receiver, where it'd be on an AK clone, whereas the charging handle on a Bushmaster, or any M-16 clone is at the back of the receiver.




"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Tuesday, January 22, 2013 6:12 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:

Also interesting that the video I've seen of cops finding a long gun in the trunk of a car does NOT show a Bushmaster. The officer clearing the weapon is pulling a charging handle on the right side of the receiver, where it'd be on an AK clone, whereas the charging handle on a Bushmaster, or any M-16 clone is at the back of the receiver.




So, there was more than 1 " assault weapon " ? Or are we being told that there was just the one, and some how it was used in the school, magically appeared in the trunk, after the shooter was killed, and that some how it's not the gun we were all told it was in the first place ?




"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Tuesday, January 22, 2013 8:15 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Raptor makes a good point; if it was taken out of the trunk, how did it get there if the shooter was using it, then died? His ghost walked it back to the trunk?

What I heard was that he had two guns WITH him, an assault rifle and something else...dunno what tha video about pulling something out of a trunk has to do with that.

And I'd like to hear an explanation of how so many children could have been shot MULTIPLE TIMES in the time allotted if it wasn't a semi-auto...one of the children was shot eleven times...20 children shot multiple times in the short time he was shooting? On top, of course, of how many adults he shot as well...?

Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.

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Tuesday, January 22, 2013 8:38 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


The medical examiner identifies the injuries from a "long rifle". The AR is the only thing the shooter had that fits that. Second the shear number of rounds suggests the rifle and it's larger capacity mag. Third, it make no sense that the shooter would take the AR-15 to the school and than not use it.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Tuesday, January 22, 2013 9:01 AM

HKCAVALIER


Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
...it make no sense that the shooter would take the AR-15 to the school and than not use it.

Crazy 20 year old kills 20 kindergarteners and 6 adults and we're ruling out things he might have done because they make "no sense?"

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Tuesday, January 22, 2013 11:32 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


The shooter had the wherewithal to destroy his computer and do other things in preparing for this shooting, including taking that AR-15 with him. So he may have been crazy, but he was not that crazy.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Tuesday, January 22, 2013 11:48 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
The medical examiner identifies the injuries from a "long rifle". The AR is the only thing the shooter had that fits that. Second the shear number of rounds suggests the rifle and it's larger capacity mag. Third, it make no sense that the shooter would take the AR-15 to the school and than not use it.



But per the L.A. Times:

"When Adam Lanza left the house, he took a Bushmaster .223 rifle and two handguns -- a Glock 9-millimeter and a Sig Sauer semiautomatic, law enforcement sources said. He left the rifle in the back seat of his mother's car, which he used to drive to the school. Both handguns were fired in the attack, sources said."

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/dec/15/nation/la-na-nn-sandy-hook-gun
man
-tried-to-buy-rifile-days-before-20121215

(I put a space in the link so it'd wrap around)


"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Tuesday, January 22, 2013 12:21 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
The medical examiner identifies the injuries from a "long rifle". The AR is the only thing the shooter had that fits that. Second the shear number of rounds suggests the rifle and it's larger capacity mag. Third, it make no sense that the shooter would take the AR-15 to the school and than not use it.



But per the L.A. Times:

"When Adam Lanza left the house, he took a Bushmaster .223 rifle and two handguns -- a Glock 9-millimeter and a Sig Sauer semiautomatic, law enforcement sources said. He left the rifle in the back seat of his mother's car, which he used to drive to the school. Both handguns were fired in the attack, sources said."

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/dec/15/nation/la-na-nn-sandy-hook-gun
man
-tried-to-buy-rifile-days-before-20121215

(I put a space in the link so it'd wrap around)


"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."




3 things are confusing here ( and I'm not screaming 'conspiracy'! Just things that don't add up...

1. How'd the ME determine the wounds were made from " the long gun " ??

2. How'd the rifle end up in the trunk of the car ? Did he use it, put it away, then come back w/ just the hand guns ?

3. Why is there so much confusion as to the make of the rifle ?

Seems to me, on the last one, law enforcement would be competent enough to know what gun they had, and then simply report that to the media. How anyone could confuse something seemingly so straight forward ... is baffling.


"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Tuesday, January 22, 2013 9:04 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!




What happens when a corporate TV news reporter actually does a little investigative journalism for his local primetime TV news broadcast?



http://cincinnati.com/blogs/tv/2013/01/18/ben-swanns-sandy-hook-video-
goes-viral
/

http://www.salon.com/2013/01/14/is_it_okay_for_reporters_to_question_t
he_official_narrative_of_sandy_hook
/

http://www.policymic.com/articles/23449/reporter-ben-swann-smeared-for
-questioning-media-s-sandy-hook-narrative


http://www.fox19.com/story/20608260/reality-check-an-apples-to-apples-
comparison-of-us-and-uk-violent-crime-rates


www.facebook.com/BenSwannRealityCheck

Quote:

Sandy Hook Mystery Man Identified; Why Did This Off Duty SWAT Officer Armed With A Gun Run Off Into The Woods Instead Of Helping The Students?

The mysterious man shown being pursued by the police after the Sandy Hook shooting in this video has been 'identified' as an off-duty AND ARMED tactical squad police officer from another Connecticut district, according to the Newtown Bee.:

"A man with a gun who was spotted in the woods near the school on the day of the incident was an off-duty tactical squad police officer from another town, according to the source."

This development brings up more questions than it answers: why was a SWAT team officer armed with a gun in the vicinity of the Newtown shooting PRIOR to the shooting AND WHY is he running away from the shooting as A COWARD would do, instead of running in to the school seeing that he was armed with a gun? I guarantee this, my martial arts instructor, a former police officer, would have been inside that building in two seconds flat if it were him, especially being armed with a gun, rather than running away from the scene. Something is very fishy here and this newly released information from the Newtown Bee only adds fuel to the fire. Is this the smoking gun? A SWAT Team officer was at the school with a gun and he ran away into the woods? If that's typical behavior of SWAT in Connecticut, who needs them?

That’s pure baloney. Notice that they say “spotted” when, in fact, he was taken down and arrested. If he really was police, he would have shown officers his credentials and police would not have been led him away in handcuffs. We can probably expect more lame excuses like this as police concoct more false stories to cover for these arrests.

Wow...in fatigues and armed...."hancuffed and sitting in the front of a police car."





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Wednesday, January 23, 2013 3:03 AM

ARLO

-.-. ..- -- / -.-. .- - .- .--. ..- .-.. - .- . / .--. .-. --- ... -.-. .-. .. .--. - .- . / . .-. .- - --..-- / - ..- -- / ... --- .-.. .. / .--. .-. --- ... -.-. .-. .. .--. - / -.-. .- - .- .--. ..- .-.. - .- ... / .... .- -... . ..- -. -


Frank Arduini’s Ten Key Characteristics of Nut-Job Conspiracy Theorists

1. Religious zeal.

Nut-jobs generally believe that they are participants in a holy / patriotic / moral crusade, and hence their opponents are not merely political or ideological opponents, they are evil infidels.

2. Impermeability to incontrovertible fact.

It does not matter how conclusively or comprehensively an argument or assertion has been refuted, nut-jobs never abandon an argument once ventured. Nut-job lies never die.

3. Willingness to embrace the impossible.

Nut-job arguments regularly cross the line from excruciatingly improbable to physically impossible. Nut-jobs fearlessly violate the laws of physics and propose theories that rend the time-space continuum.

4. Abhorrence of simplicity (Rube Goldberg’s Razor) .

Nut-jobs never settle for a simple solution to a problem when a hopelessly complex and idiotic alternative can be proposed. “Occams Razor” is anathema to nut-jobs.

5. Emotional (and other) projection.

It is almost impossible to read someone else’s emotional state or actually know anything about them across the Internet. So nut-jobs regularly attribute their own emotional states, prejudices and motives to their opponents. This is often also called “Irony blindness.”

6. Anomaly Mining.

Nut-jobs are tireless in their search for minuscule anomalies and coincidences around which they assemble vast complexes of suspicion, most of which are actually irrelevant to their cause. The tiniest and most meaningless detail will often take on a life of its own, rendering their theories even more opaque and incomprehensible to rational observers.

7. Simultaneous contradictory beliefs.

Nut-jobs often imagine at the same time and even in the same sentence that (for example) they are fighting forces which are both super-humanly brilliant and powerful … and completely incompetent.

8. Irrational anticipation of imminent victory.

Nut-jobs are often convinced that they are just one day/argument/case away from completely vanquishing their rhetorical foes. They will believe this for years and years and years and…

9. Inability to comprehend disagreement.

Nut-jobs cannot conceive of anybody honestly disagreeing with them. Therefore anybody who disagrees must be either “part of the conspiracy,” paid to pretend they believe something they do not, or victims of violent extortion.

10. The Appeal to Galileo.

Nut-jobs know that they are considered nut-jobs. So they regularly appeal to “great nut-jobs of history” ; who were eventually proven to not be so nutty after all. Ignoring that Galileo was actually never considered a nut-job in the first place, for every nut-job rehabilitated by history ten thousand nut-jobs resolutely remained nut-jobs.

http://rcradioblog.wordpress.com/2012/02/22/the-ten-key-characteristic
s-of-nut-job-conspiracy-theorists
/

sincerely, 1933

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Wednesday, January 23, 2013 3:06 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

3 things are confusing here ( and I'm not screaming 'conspiracy'! Just things that don't add up...

1. How'd the ME determine the wounds were made from " the long gun " ??

2. How'd the rifle end up in the trunk of the car ? Did he use it, put it away, then come back w/ just the hand guns ?

3. Why is there so much confusion as to the make of the rifle ?

Seems to me, on the last one, law enforcement would be competent enough to know what gun they had, and then simply report that to the media. How anyone could confuse something seemingly so straight forward ... is baffling.



I would think that the medical examiner could tell from the wounds. Now the video are we sure that is the Bushmaster rifle used or is it another gun? Are we even sure the news report got it right? I'm sure what you mean about confusion to the make of the rifle. The Bushmaster is a make of the AR-15.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Wednesday, January 23, 2013 10:46 AM

FREMDFIRMA



Annnd... the thread itself becomes a self demonstrating example.

One case of lazy and irresponsible journalism amplified by people with agendas, and viola!

And while for the record I do *NOT* believe this was anything more than the senseless tragedy it appears to be, I want you to ponder for a moment something, to try and bridge the gap here, so you understand.

What if, in respect to some other event this damned horrible, you wound up coming face to face with undeniable PROOF that the official story was a sham, a hoax, a coverup, and the truth was even more awful than people knew.
And no one would listen to you.

What would you do, how would you feel, what would be the mental, social, and psychological consequences of being in possession of such awful knowledge and willing to share it - but nobody, NOBODY, wanted to know, wanted to hear it, and scorned/hated/attacked you for trying to.

I've *watched* that spiral of crazy consume people, most of them in regards to attempts to blow the lid off the cover-up of abuse within the Catholic Church, something I was only even aware of as a side-order to trying to blow the lid off the Hellcamps - but there ARE serious psychological consequences to trying to bring to light something people don't want to hear.

And that's where folks like PirateNews, Jeff Rense, Alex Jones and the like come from, that is what creates them.
Hostility just feeds the cycle - not that PN doesn't get up my back here and there, but a little compassion could be warranted you know.

-Frem

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Wednesday, January 23, 2013 12:57 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

3 things are confusing here ( and I'm not screaming 'conspiracy'! Just things that don't add up...

1. How'd the ME determine the wounds were made from " the long gun " ??

2. How'd the rifle end up in the trunk of the car ? Did he use it, put it away, then come back w/ just the hand guns ?

3. Why is there so much confusion as to the make of the rifle ?

Seems to me, on the last one, law enforcement would be competent enough to know what gun they had, and then simply report that to the media. How anyone could confuse something seemingly so straight forward ... is baffling.



I would think that the medical examiner could tell from the wounds. Now the video are we sure that is the Bushmaster rifle used or is it another gun? Are we even sure the news report got it right? I'm sure what you mean about confusion to the make of the rifle. The Bushmaster is a make of the AR-15.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.



How'd the rifle end up in the trunk, if that's the weapon which was used, per the ME ?

The Bushmaster is a make of the AR-15. They're not the same gun, though, are they. There's lazy journalism or lazy police work. Not sure which. Minor detail, perhaps, but still...

"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, January 24, 2013 12:10 PM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
How'd the rifle end up in the trunk, if that's the weapon which was used, per the ME ?

The Bushmaster is a make of the AR-15. They're not the same gun, though, are they. There's lazy journalism or lazy police work. Not sure which. Minor detail, perhaps, but still...



The M.E. would not determin the specific gun used. That would be ballistics experts.

Bushmaster is a Firearms company. They make an AR-15. Regrdless of who makes it, it is still an AR-15.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Thursday, January 24, 2013 3:04 PM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Oh, the gun in the trunk was a shotgun.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/guns/newtown.asp

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Thursday, January 24, 2013 9:49 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
Oh, the gun in the trunk was a shotgun.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/guns/newtown.asp

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.



There never was an AR15 "assault rifle" anywhere near Sandy Hook school, which explains why no photos of video exists of any 223 shell casings, despite the school's brand new video security system.


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Friday, January 25, 2013 7:46 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

Crazy 20 year old kills 20 kindergarteners and 6 adults and we're ruling out things he might have done because they make "no sense?"

Good point. On the other hand, crazy doesn't mean stupid, as Nick pointed out.

I was going to ask what about the discrepancy between him supposedly having left the gun in the back seat of his mother's car, and some kind of gun being taken out of the trunk, but thank you, Nick, for clearing THAT one up.

Thank you, Arlo, for the "definition" of nut jobs. PN to a T! That's a keeper.

Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.

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Friday, January 25, 2013 9:23 AM

ARLO

-.-. ..- -- / -.-. .- - .- .--. ..- .-.. - .- . / .--. .-. --- ... -.-. .-. .. .--. - .- . / . .-. .- - --..-- / - ..- -- / ... --- .-.. .. / .--. .-. --- ... -.-. .-. .. .--. - / -.-. .- - .- .--. ..- .-.. - .- ... / .... .- -... . ..- -. -


QFE

Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:

The M.E. would not determine the specific gun used. That would be ballistics experts.

Bushmaster is a Firearms company. They make an AR-15. Regardless of who makes it, it is still an AR-15.




Rap? Questions answered. Rap? Are you in ignore mode again?

sincerely, 1933

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Saturday, January 26, 2013 4:18 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!



Dr. Martin Luther King assassinated by US govt: King Family civil trial verdict
http://www.examiner.com/article/dr-martin-luther-king-assassinated-by-
us-govt-king-family-civil-trial-verdict



House Assassinations Committee in Congress officially reported that JFK and MLK were murdered by 'conspiracy' with 2 shooters in Dealey Plaza
http://www.google.com/search?q=house+assassination+committee+fauntroy+
conspiracy


Quote:

"Information intended for foreign audiences, including public diplomacy and Psyops, is increasingly consumed by our domestic audience. Psyops messages will often be replayed by the news media for much larger audiences, including the American public. Strategy should be based on the premise that the Department of Defense will 'fight the net' as it would an enemy weapons system."
-U.S. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld Kosher Knight of the Brtitish Empire, Information Operations Roadmap, SECRET/NOFORN, 30 Oct 2003
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/27_01_06_psyops.pdf
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4655196.stm

"There's going to be a Marxist revolution in Amerika. We need to be organized and grow the movement."
-Barack Hussein Obama Soetoro, member of the Young Marxist Club at Occidental College
http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/02/meeting_young_obama.html

"If the people knew what we had done, they would chase us down the street and lynch us."
-President George HW Bush Knight of the British Empire, CIA agent in Dealey Plaza when JFK was shot

"Half of writing history is hiding the Truth."
-Capt Malcolm Reynolds


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Saturday, January 26, 2013 6:05 PM

1KIKI


Top to bottom:

"... as did the admittedly suspicious timing of it after an earlier mass shooting attempt FAILED, due to said "Assault Rifle" malfunctioning, an armed civvie present, and a security response that for once did the job completely right."

Care to name names?


"Anyhows, the endless barrage of lies is in fact the source of these things ..."

Yanno, even when someone like Matt Taibbi or Yanis Varoufakis expose the facts about particular events/ issues, people don't care to know.

There have been many studies, one reported most recently, that the facts have very little to do with beliefs. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/01/130124092300.htm False Beliefs Persist, Even After Instant Online Corrections

Whacko crazy groups with whacko crazy ideas persist b/c they support a set of assumptions/ beliefs that people are loathe to give up (aside from organically schizophrenic people).

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Saturday, January 26, 2013 6:07 PM

1KIKI


Oh goody! Another PN scroll fest!

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Saturday, January 26, 2013 6:11 PM

1KIKI


"But that The Powers That Be are CAPABLE of such atrocities ?
Oh hell yes."

But only b/c we let them.

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Saturday, January 26, 2013 6:12 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Whacko crazy groups with whacko crazy ideas persist b/c they support a set of assumptions/ beliefs that people are loathe to give up (aside from organically schizophrenic people).



You mean like how folks think 'assault rifles' are so dangerous when you're much more likely to be murdered with knives, hands and feet, or blunt objects?

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/jan/18/faceboo
k-posts/facebook-post-says-more-people-were-murdered-knive
/




"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Saturday, January 26, 2013 10:07 PM

FREMDFIRMA



Kiki
Quote:

Care to name names?

On Tuesday December 11 2012, circa 3pm PST at the Clackamas Town Center, a mall in Portland Oregon, one Jacob Tyler Roberts, age 22 - entered the place with a semi automatic AR15, load bearing vest and several spare magazines.

He got off several shots, killing Steven Mathew Forsyth, age 45, and Cindy Ann Yuille, age 54, and wounding Kristina Shevchenko, age 15.

The weapon then jammed, and he was confronted at this time by CCW holder Nick Meli, age 22, who drew his weapon but did not fire because he didn't have a clear shot, causing Roberts to flee down a corrider and then shortly end himself with a self-inflicted gunshot.

The Clackamas Town Center security had a proper drill in place and executed it quite well, moving in immediately and securing sections while evacuating people, which itself would have made things much more difficult for an active shooter, as opposed to the usual policy of corralling the victims and bunkering down as the slaughter proceeds unhindered.
They deserve some hefty credit for that, even if it was not an immediate factor.

As does Nick Meli, who made the proper call instead of just blazing away, as those in favor of pre-emptively punishing CCW holders insist would never happen.

Anyhows, that the Newtown tragedy came right on the heels of this did provoke some suspicion, especially in combination with the "known" factor of both the ATF and FBI all but creating plots out of thin air for their own reasons, it's not a great leap of logic for some to suspect that they keep a couple under wraps to go "live" when they need public outrage to advance their agendas.

In this case I do not believe that, although I do feel there may have been some copycatting aspect involved in large part due to the endless media circus these things provoke.
Quote:

"But that The Powers That Be are CAPABLE of such atrocities ?
Oh hell yes."

But only b/c we let them.


And I am all for putting a STOP to that, myself - worth remembering I was at one time more or less on their payroll, and the break with them came in regards to being asked how willing I was to participate in such atrocities, first via the now-infamous Twentynine Palms survey and later via unwillingness to back the friggin Contras.
http://jpfo.org/articles-assd/29palms-mcmanus.htm

They like to pretend that was an isolated incident, but I can tell you for a fact it wasn't - in summer 1988 at the US Army Quartermaster School in Ft Lee, VA, I was handed a very similar survey by my Sergeant and instructed to fill out and return it - I was kind of offended about it, and when I came to the question about whether I'd fire on americans who refused to hand over their weapons I crossed it out with a big X and wrote in the margin that if given this order I would then immediately arrest and detain the officer in question, removing him from command and rendering him to the civil authorities for trial at the first opportunity, in accordance with the UCMJ (military justice code).

That evening the Sergeant returned with the commanding officer of the unit in tow and they very bluntly informed me that any hope of a military career for me was absolutely over and that I would never, ever be promoted again - followed by offering a straight up no consequences immediate discharge, just pack my shit and walk away, without question or penalty.
Having at the time nowhere left to go, and a burning hatred for all humanity I desperately wanted to drown in blood (which Lindyear took advantage of, later), I told them where to stick it, but that threat of no promotion ever was no empty one, I remained a mere E-3 right up till I *did* tell them to jam it and walked.

And of course affiliation with Lindyear and that whole mess put me square in the grapevine for some of the nastier stuff which goes on within our forces.
Now the fact of the above, that's ironclad, personally witnessed, as for the rest though...
What I *heard* and somewhat suspected, that the purpose of that was to feel out whether or not there was sufficient support to carry off something called REX-84, which I had no idea about at the time, and they were unhappy at the lack of such support, this was about the same time basic training was adjusted to focus more on psychological conditioning at the expense of combat effectiveness, which was to later bite us on the ass oh so very hard, and when I *did* find out what that was about since it was Col Oliver Norths pet project and they were kind of setting some of us up to go "advise" the goddamn Contras, which was also his pet project...
(Yes, legalities be damned, we WERE still supporting the Contras in 1989-1990, and prolly beyond that.)
I turned on them, you bet I did - I didn't swear an Oath to the adminstration, I swore it to the Constitution, and any administration or aspect thereof which aggresses upon it I regard as a domestic enemy.

Which is why the whole matter approaches the level of personal vendetta with me, along with other factors.

-Frem

ETA: PS - I suspect whatever happened to PN was more horrible by an order of magnitude and he bears a heavy weight of personal guilt about it, but I doubt you'd ever get the truth out of him now, if he even remembers what it was.

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Saturday, January 26, 2013 10:22 PM

1KIKI


"But given the things that HAVE been done, that ARE being done, it bothers me that so many peoples default reaction is "But they would never do that!""

I see it more as 'eh, so what?' We started so many wars destroyed so many freely elected slightly socialist governments, set up the US PATRIOT act for god's sake ... and the reaction has been ... muted. Or worse, supportive.

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Saturday, January 26, 2013 10:28 PM

1KIKI


Generic comment on the confusion of what happened and which guns ... there were too many reporters breathlessly reporting rumors as facts b/c that's the business model they follow - they HAVE to get high ratings to make more money on commercial air time - which means they have to be quick and sensational to grab audience attention. Veracity isn't high on the priority list.

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