REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Clinton's Bosnia Trip

POSTED BY: TANKOBITE
UPDATED: Friday, March 28, 2008 07:55
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 1461
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Tuesday, March 25, 2008 3:04 PM

TANKOBITE


No comment, but surprised this hasn't come up here yet



-----------------------------------------------------------
There's a widow in sleepy Chester
Who weeps for her only son;
There's a grave on the Pabeng River,
A grave that the Burmans shun;
And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri
Who tells how the work was done.

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Tuesday, March 25, 2008 3:29 PM

KIRKULES


That's just so out of character for a Clinton to lie, and not get away with it. Nice to see the media has finally stopped covering up for them. That's the problem with being a compulsive liar, you get in such a habit of lying, you end up lying when the truth would work better.

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Tuesday, March 25, 2008 6:46 PM

PIRATECAT


Am I the only one with a really good memory anymore. Yeh it was a meet and greet tour. I remember the troops just cheering for their first lady. I know a guard chopper pilot that was in that area he said you land your chopper at a school and hand out candy. Clinton is unelectable. The american women will vote against her. We can handle Barack for president. the worst of all time was Jimmy Carter. McCain has a chance but he is just another lib to me. I don't have a dog in the fight.

"Battle of Serenity, Mal. Besides Zoe here, how many-" "I'm talkin at you! How many men in your platoon came out of their alive".

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Wednesday, March 26, 2008 3:39 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

the worst of all time was Jimmy Carter.


Why was that, exactly?

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

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Wednesday, March 26, 2008 3:54 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:

Why was that, exactly?


He had no evil bones in his body, and didn't know how to play the game.
He 'allowed' the CIA to 'forget' to install the sand-shields in the Iran rescue choppers so that they couldn't rescue the hostages- what a loser.

(At least that's all I can come up with...)

Carterfanisall

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Wednesday, March 26, 2008 4:08 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Hillary lied. She can call it whatever she wants, but she flat out lied. Not "misspoke". Not "slipped". LIED. She started telling a cute little story about her "Courage Under Fire" moment, and it played well with the crowds - so, like any fisherman, she kept embellishing the story with every retelling. One "slip" I could buy... maybe. But she's been telling the story over and over and over, and the fish has kept getting bigger.

Am I the only one who sees a marked difference between "landing under the threat of sniper fire" and "landing under sniper fire"? *I* live under the THREAT of sniper fire; theoretically, it *could* happen. That's a far different critter than actually having to duck flying, live-fire sniper fire.

Okay, all that having been said, and I'm definitely more than willing to stipulate that she lied... Now, will McCain's camp do the same thing? He's been claiming, over and over and over (four times now, at least - that's how many times he's done it in front of the press) that Iran is training Al Qaeda. He's been corrected REPEATEDLY, and told that there's a chasm of difference between the Sunni in Iran and the Shi'ia in Al Qaeda - and he's acknowledged that fact, and says he "misspoke" - and then he goes right out and does it AGAIN!

Like I say, one time, maybe you misspoke. Twice, you "slipped". Three or four, and you're just flat lying. Making shit up, utterly bullshitting us, trying to play on our fears that all Middle-Easterners must really be evil.

That's one of the things that drives mu bug-fuck about politics: when *my* guy does it, it's "different". The whole hypocrisy involved, on both sides, just makes me crazy. And I'm guilty of it, too. But right now, I'm calling the candidates on it.

If Hillary's opponents want to claim that she lied, they have to admit that their guys lied, too. If McCain's supporters want to claim that Obama's a racist for his preacher's views, they have to admit that McCain is a fucking whacko for HIS religious advisors' viewpoints. (Of course, I'd lay the claim that *ANY* of the candidates are fucking whack-jobs if they have any religious beliefs at all. To me, having a pastor, minister, priest, rabbi, or mullah is like having a Tooth Fairy advisor, or an Easter Bunny minister, or a Santa Claus ambassador...)

So... Do we have a deal? Can we call a lie a lie, no matter who makes it up and retells it?



Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

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Wednesday, March 26, 2008 4:15 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:

Why was that, exactly?


He had no evil bones in his body, and didn't know how to play the game.
He 'allowed' the CIA to 'forget' to install the sand-shields in the Iran rescue choppers so that they couldn't rescue the hostages- what a loser.

(At least that's all I can come up with...)

Carterfanisall



Yup.

Look, I'm certainly no fan of Carter's Presidency. He did plenty wrong, and not near enough right. That, however, is still a long, long way from "worst of all time".

I'm just trying to figure out if PirateCat can adequately explain his viewpoint, or if he's just parroting what he's been told all his life. I was raised to believe that Carter was a joke, but looking back in time, he really wasn't all THAT horrible. And I'm willing to bet that ANY claim you can make about Carter being a terrible President, I can counter-claim something bigger and worse from the current Executive.

Example: "Carter got Americans held hostage in Iran."

Counterpoint: Bush got over 3000 Americans killed on 9/11, and over 4000 American soldiers killed since then in Iraq.

Example: "Carter was responsible for the highest gas prices we'd ever seen up to that time."

Counterpoint: $5.39 per gallon. 'Nuff said.

See? It's fun. Let's play!

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

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Wednesday, March 26, 2008 4:25 AM

BIGDAMNNOBODY


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Bush got over 3000 Americans killed on 9/11,...


Care to explain this one so I know you are not just "parroting" what other people say?

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Wednesday, March 26, 2008 5:15 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Certainly. It's as valid - and stupid - a claim as the claim that Carter got Americans held hostage. I was pointing out the ludicrousness of either claim, in a roundabout way. The fact that either man was in the Oval Office when these things transpired doesn't make them personally responsible, but that fact gets conveniently forgotted more often than not.

Some of you guys on the right don't really *get* satire, do you?





Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

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Wednesday, March 26, 2008 5:23 AM

JONGSSTRAW


The 2 best things about the Carter Presidency were :

1) Interest rates went to 14.5%, and for a saver it was awesome to lock in 5-year CD's and get 14.5%

2) The TV sit-com Carter Country....stupid, but lovable nonetheless...Roy, handle it!

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Wednesday, March 26, 2008 5:32 AM

BIGDAMNNOBODY


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Certainly. It's as valid - and stupid - a claim as the claim that Carter got Americans held hostage. I was pointing out the ludicrousness of either claim, in a roundabout way. The fact that either man was in the Oval Office when these things transpired doesn't make them personally responsible, but that fact gets conveniently forgotted more often than not.

Some of you guys on the right don't really *get* satire, do you?


So you think it is ludicrous to blame Bush for the 4000 dead servicepeople in Iraq as well? I will try to remember that point for any future discussions on the Iraq war that you might partake in.

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Wednesday, March 26, 2008 5:34 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Bush got over 3000 Americans killed on 9/11,...


Care to explain this one so I know you are not just "parroting" what other people say?

So...you don't know the whole 'We got intel on 9-11 that the corporo-style alphabet agencies ignored cause no one wanted to look foolish' thing that Bush was okay with...(this applies to Clinton as well, IMO)?

Curious Chrisisall

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Wednesday, March 26, 2008 5:38 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:

So you think it is ludicrous to blame Bush for the 4000 dead servicepeople in Iraq as well?

Well...no one but him (& Cheney & unknown others) gave the order to go to war, so yeah, I'd say that's all on him.

But, responsibility is a game. Did Neo knock the vase over BECAUSE of the Oracle?

Baked-noodle Chrisisall

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Wednesday, March 26, 2008 5:56 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Why was that, exactly?


First of all I consider Carter the worst President ever. I also consider him among the best ex-Presidents ever, which is kind of unusual. So you ask why he was bad:

1. He was a Democratic President with a Democratic Congress who from day one was unable to pass meaningful legislation because he could not get along with his own party's Congressional leadership.

2. He mishandled Iran's leadership crisis leading to the revolution and the hostage crisis...which he mishandled.

3. 14% Interest rates, 12% unemployment, double digit inflation...and those were the good numbers.

4. Billy Beer

5. He let the Commies roll him again and again. Completely failed to appreciate the nature and scope of the Communist threat.

6. He allowed the military to deteriorate to the point where ships could not put to sea and planes could not fly because of lack of trained personel or spare parts. We also lacked the ability to respond militarily to any crisis of any size.

7. Camp David laid the groundwork for much of the Isreal-Palestine problems we face today.

It goes on, but three major problems Carter failed to deal with properly were the Commies, the Economy, and military preparedness. The rest are normal policy and crisis responses that every President faces. The Commies ran the table on us in the late '70s, the military needed reinvestment after Vietnam that they didn't get till Reagan came along. The economy was what got him in the end (and a lot of us too). It was unsustainable and compared to today, was several orders of magnatude worse then where we are.

H

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Wednesday, March 26, 2008 7:45 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Some of you guys on the right don't really *get* satire, do you?


I think most folks in the RWED are intelligent enough to appreciate satire....when it's done well and presented as such. Some of your posts are outright or borderline flamebait, so when someone takes you to task on something you often go defensive and claim satire. It's tricky to pull that off consistently and be believable. I do enjoy your posts regardless of our differences of opinion on things.

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Wednesday, March 26, 2008 7:49 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Now we're talking! Good points, one and all, Hero.

However, would you mind terribly if I started a fresh thread for this discussion? It might prove to be enlightening - if for no one else, then maybe for me!

And let's return this thread to its regularly-scheduled bashing (on both sides).

M

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Wednesday, March 26, 2008 7:56 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Some of you guys on the right don't really *get* satire, do you?


I think most folks in the RWED are intelligent enough to appreciate satire....when it's done well and presented as such. Some of your posts are outright or borderline flamebait, so when someone takes you to task on something you often go defensive and claim satire. It's tricky to pull that off consistently and be believable. I do enjoy your posts regardless of our differences of opinion on things.



*Some*? Just *SOME*? I was pretty sure ALL of my posts were flamebait... :) I must be slipping.

Seriously, though - I don't try to take ANYTHING too seriously. If you go into the discussion with the idea that pretty much EVERYTHING I say is at least somewhat satirical, you'll be in pretty good shape.



Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

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Wednesday, March 26, 2008 8:19 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Okay, back to the regularly-scheduled post - What the HELL was Hellary thinking?!

On the one hand, I'm disgusted. She got caught, clearly and cleanly, lying - and now she says "Oh, I just misspoke." Bullshit. You lied. Call it what it is, and let's move along.

On the other hand, I can't say I'm even surprised any more. A politician lied. Let that sink in for just a minute. A. POLITICIAN. LIED. The nerve... The very GALL...

It just boggles the mind. Buggers the imagination. I can't believe it. What's next? Cats will be chasing dogs? Rain will fall up?

Still and all, though, it just makes Hellary look stupid - not just for doing it, but for doing it on something that could so easily be fact-checked!


Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

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Wednesday, March 26, 2008 8:58 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

So... Do we have a deal? Can we call a lie a lie, no matter who makes it up and retells it?
No, because Bush NEVER lied. Never! Just ask Auraptor, he'll tell you!



---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.

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Wednesday, March 26, 2008 9:30 AM

CANTTAKESKY


I deeply dislike Hillary Clinton, but I always thought she was shrewd, if not intelligent. Now her last redeeming quality in my mind is gone too. What is she thinking, to lie about something that was on video? Not some bystander video either, but CBS News video. Of all the lies to tell on earth, why tell such an obvious one?

Of course, it could be an experiment to see just how much bold-faced lying the American public is willing to accept. If she gets elected anyway, which I think she will, she'll know she can get away with pissing on your head and telling you it's rain.

--------------------------
In politics, memory should always match the videotape.
--CBS News, on Hillary Clinton's accounts of her Bosnia trip

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Wednesday, March 26, 2008 9:40 AM

FLETCH2


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
He's been claiming, over and over and over (four times now, at least - that's how many times he's done it in front of the press) that Iran is training Al Qaeda. He's been corrected REPEATEDLY, and told that there's a chasm of difference between the Sunni in Iran and the Shi'ia in Al Qaeda - and he's acknowledged that fact, and says he "misspoke" - and then he goes right out and does it AGAIN!



Small point, the Iranians are Shi'ia and Persian, Al Qaeda is principly Sunni and Arab. Both traditions see themselves as the one "correct" form of the Islamic faith, when you couple that with religious fanaticism -- and Al Qaeda will break with Islamic law and even kill other Sunni Muslims they dont think are "pure" enough-- you don't have a whole lot of common ground.

Al Queda operatives that fled into Iran in 2001 are still in jail there, and I suspect not being treated half as well as they would be at Gitmo.

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Wednesday, March 26, 2008 9:43 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


She appears to have gone off the rails.

As to her chances of being elected - ehh - I've heard an analysis that Hillary is seeking to out-Lieberman Lieberman. In other words, she's not going after the democratic vote, she's going after the repubican one. Sigh. When will people learn ? No one is going to vote for a pale me-too imitation when they can vote for the real thing.


***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Wednesday, March 26, 2008 9:51 AM

FLETCH2


It's supposedly how you win elections in a deeply divided country. Elections have been so close of late the only way to ensure a clear majority is to steal some of your opponents clothes in the hope you can take some of his traditional "safe" votes. That has double the benefit over just taking the swing vote in the middle because your gain subtracts directly from his base numbers.

What do you think the prescription drug benefit thing was all about? It was an attempt by Bush to grab some of the "safe" AARP crowd especially in states like Florida. That's also why McCain is the Republican nominee, because he can go after Democratic core issues in the general election.

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Wednesday, March 26, 2008 10:11 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


It may be deeply divided but at one point it was deeply sincerely divided to the tune of 70/ 30 in favor of any democrat.

Clinton and supporters need to get real. In this kind of race there is only 1 winner. And while being a close second may be a point of pride it still means - you lost.

***************************************************************
My candidate was Edwards b/c at that point there was very little air between Obama and Clinton and there were major points of both campaigns I deeply disagreed with, and still do. So when Edwards dropped out I had no preference one way or the other.

Since then Clinton has shown herself to be all the worst things you think of when you think 'politician', and Obama has raised himself closer to the level of potential statesman.

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Wednesday, March 26, 2008 10:28 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Judging by what her "advisors" are saying ( Lanny Davis, James Carville) you can expect nothing short of kidnapping in her quest to get the nomination. She is courting Obama delegates...not only the expected Super delgates, but the actual pledged delegates from the popular vote! They don't see that as any problem...as long as it's "in the best interests of the Democratic Party." How nice of them to interpret what's in the best interests of the millions who've voted for Obama. She does not care about delegate count, does not care about popular vote count, does not care about number of states won by Obama....She will do everything in her power to turn their votes from Obama to her.....and her "people" don't have any problem with any of that....and now she's wonderin' why the media is turning on her?

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Wednesday, March 26, 2008 1:37 PM

FLETCH2


Quote:

Originally posted by rue:
It may be deeply divided but at one point it was deeply sincerely divided to the tune of 70/ 30 in favor of any democrat.

Clinton and supporters need to get real. In this kind of race there is only 1 winner. And while being a close second may be a point of pride it still means - you lost.





Was that "any Democrat" or "unnamed Democrat?" I suspect there are people that would prefer to vote "Democrat" who when push comes to shove wont vote for a woman or won't vote for the black guy. Sad but true. Almost all the analysis I saw in the media at that time showed both Hillary and Barack polling lower that the unnamed Democrat.

That's the crux of the issue, both Democratic canidates expect to see losses when they get confirmed -- ie there will be folks that will support one that refuse to support others. So for the general each is pitching out voters that haven't previously voted Democrat to make up the shortfall. Hillary seems to be pitching at folks that are generally in favour of a strong defence but who feel the war was miss managed --- disillusioned Republicans. Barrack seems to be looking towards the idealistic youth vote and those in the black community that haven't voted in the past.

Hillary seems to be following the political operators gameplan, Barrack seems to be hoping on idealism and a sense of history.

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Wednesday, March 26, 2008 3:18 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


BTW the observation that each loses to an 'un-named' democrat was the reason why I thought a ticket with both of them (once touted as a 'dream ticket') would be a disaster. Instead of the positives being additive, the negatives would have been. Fortunately that idea's been overtaken by events and isn't even remotely on the horizon.

But it's a serious and sad comment on the country.

In either case, again, whether she likes it or not - Clinton lost, by any measure you can make. It's her raw greed for power that now defines her and it's the reason why she's reaching for repubican lite. B/c Obama has tapped into the hunger for a change for the better.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Wednesday, March 26, 2008 4:00 PM

VETERAN

Don't squat with your spurs on.


I can't believe these people make such stupid statments. Didn't Ms. Clinton know that someone would just check the footage. What an idiotic mistake.

So what do you think Obama and Richardson vs. McCain and a whom?

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Wednesday, March 26, 2008 4:20 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


Lierberman - DUH !

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Wednesday, March 26, 2008 9:25 PM

HKCAVALIER


Wait! Proof Hillary wasn't lying at all! Just watch the video!





HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Wednesday, March 26, 2008 9:32 PM

FLETCH2


Obama/Edwards vs McCain/Lieberman.

The thing about vice presidents is that they have to bring something to the table that the presidential candidate lacks. Obama is a Northern Democrat that will have a hard time getting the white southern vote, Edwards can be point man down there. Further, though he's out of the race Edwards got some union endorsements and appeals to the left of the party, it would allow Obama to move to the right in the general election and still keep the party activists on side.

Lieberman must know that his days are numbered. He won out against the attempts to unseat him because I understand he does a great job for his state, and is well liked there. People don't tend to like outsiders telling them what to do but going forwards he must see that over time his base will erode, maybe going out in a blaze of glory might appeal to him?


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Thursday, March 27, 2008 2:14 AM

JONGSSTRAW


I watched Hillary go one on one last night with Greta Van Susteren. It was pretty amazing. I gotta say that she stood there and fielded every question. She gave straight, direct answers....that alone really amazed me, plus the fact she had the guts to go on Fox News...something very few Dem candidates do. They usually will go on Fox AFTER they lose an election ( Kerry, Ferraro ). I thought she gave some great answers, and I was most impressed with her focus and determination. She is absolutely committed to the belief that ALL delegates are fair game at the Convention. She stated that "they have a right and a duty to vote INDEPENDENTLY of the primary results, and to do what they think is in the best interests of the Party." In other words vote for me 'cause Obama may become un-electable. Even as she was saying this, more footage and written materials by the rightous Reverand Wright surfaced and will soon likely be splashed all over the media and internet. The term being thrown around now is "going nuclear"...as opposed to going nuke-you-ler...I don't fully know what that means, buit I think it means huge ratings for the networks covering the August Convention, and of course much humor, glee, and joy from those on the other side of the political aisle.

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Thursday, March 27, 2008 2:37 AM

TANKOBITE


Haha! We may not agree on most things, but that's funny!

-----------------------------------------------------------
There's a widow in sleepy Chester
Who weeps for her only son;
There's a grave on the Pabeng River,
A grave that the Burmans shun;
And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri
Who tells how the work was done.

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Thursday, March 27, 2008 6:00 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Fletch2:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
He's been claiming, over and over and over (four times now, at least - that's how many times he's done it in front of the press) that Iran is training Al Qaeda. He's been corrected REPEATEDLY, and told that there's a chasm of difference between the Sunni in Iran and the Shi'ia in Al Qaeda - and he's acknowledged that fact, and says he "misspoke" - and then he goes right out and does it AGAIN!



Small point, the Iranians are Shi'ia and Persian, Al Qaeda is principly Sunni and Arab. Both traditions see themselves as the one "correct" form of the Islamic faith, when you couple that with religious fanaticism -- and Al Qaeda will break with Islamic law and even kill other Sunni Muslims they dont think are "pure" enough-- you don't have a whole lot of common ground.

Al Queda operatives that fled into Iran in 2001 are still in jail there, and I suspect not being treated half as well as they would be at Gitmo.



Fletch: Thanks for that clarification. Good thing *I'M* not running for office. Trust me, if I were, getting those two things mixed up would the be LEAST of my worries!



Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

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Thursday, March 27, 2008 6:07 AM

PIRATECAT


I've been at work. When your a sleep and awake I'm still at work. Anyhoow Hero expressed the way I feel about Jimmy hands down.

"Battle of Serenity, Mal. Besides Zoe here, how many-" "I'm talkin at you! How many men in your platoon came out of their alive".

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Friday, March 28, 2008 7:55 AM

FLETCH2


Back on the issue of voters that might vote for one Dem and not the other I heard this on the radio last night (my NPR station broadcasts the audio of PBS's "News Hour")

Quote:



Potential problems for Obama
JUDY WOODRUFF: Do you see anything else, though, in these numbers that tell you how much of an issue this may be for him down the road, if he were to be the Democratic nominee?
ANDREW KOHUT: Well, we did a very in-depth look at how white Democrats view Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton. And what we found is that Obama has a glowing image and a more positive image than Mrs. Clinton.

But the problem for Obama among white Democrats is that a significant number of them have social beliefs and attitudes that lead to a negative view of Obama.

Critics of Obama, people who have an unfavorable view of him, are inclined to say equal rights have been pushed too far, are inclined to say that they disapprove of interracial dating, and that immigrants threaten our culture. These are Obama's critics.

And that's why we see working-class Democrats voting so much against Obama or for Hillary Clinton, because their own view, even though he has a positive image for most people, their own personal views are -- it's a threat to their own personal views.

Now, this is among the Democratic electorate. We get to a broader electorate, these same issues...

JUDY WOODRUFF: Including independents and the Republicans.

ANDREW KOHUT: ... including independents and Republicans. In fact, what we see is that, if people hold these attitudes, they are drawn to McCain irrespective of whether they're Republicans, Democrats, independents, or whatever demographic group they belong to.

This is a potential problem for him. He's certainly addressed it pretty positive -- pretty well among the Democratic electorate, but it could come back to be a campaign issue in the fall should he win the nomination.



http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/politics/jan-june08/polls_03-27.html

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