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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
According GWB and his entire administration, in messages repeated ad nauseum, Saddm had WMD. There was, of course, very little actual evidence behind it. And even tho Hans Blix and UNMOVIC were scouring the Iraqi countryside looking for exactly that (and finding nothing) that didn't stop the west from invading Iraq on specious claims.

****

Obama draws a "red line" about chemical weapons in Syria in 2012, and a year later, EVEN AS UN CHEMICAL WEAPONS INSPECTORS ARE IN SYRIA, Assad supposedly launches a chemical attack on Ghouta, triggering a crisis.

Then, as Syrian and Russian forces are achieving battlefield success and pressuring the so-called moderate rebels into accepting de-escalation zones, Assad supposedly launches yet another chemical weapons attack, this time in Kahn Shaykhun, using a type of chemical weapon that had been supposedly purged from Syria. This attack de-legitimizes the Astana peace process, prompts a barrage of missile launches form the USA, and prolongs the proxy war in Syria.

Meanwhile, Russia, under tremendous pressure from the west due to sanctions, oil price war, attack on the ruble, and accusations from the west, allegedly poisons a former spy in the UK using a chemical weapon that could "only" have come from Russia, the UK press says. This event brings NATO together and prompts even more sanctions on Russia.

And now, right on the heels of the Skripal poisoning and immediately after Trump declares that US troops will pull out of Syria, Russia (or Assad) supposedly launches YET ANOTHER chemical attack. This attack could only cause US troops to stay on in Syria even longer than Trump might have planned.

*****

So, is Russia just obstinately and stupidly defiant, continuing to shoot itself in the foot over and over? Or is something else going on?

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
What about the drumbeat of "WMD IN IRAQ!" ? Do you remember that? It was non-stop, from every corner of the federal government. But it was completely untrue. Do you need further proof that our government will propagandize us into war?

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Moscow and Washington [BOTH] halted attempts by each other in the U.N. Security Council to set up international investigations into chemical weapons attacks in Syria, which is in the throes of a seven-year-old civil PROXY war.

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U.S. President Donald Trump and Western allies are discussing possible military action to punish Assad for a suspected poison gas attack on Saturday on a rebel-held town that long had held out against government forces.

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Trump on Tuesday canceled a planned trip to Latin America later this week to focus instead on responding to the Syria incident, the White House said. Trump had on Monday warned of a quick, forceful response once responsibility for the Syria attack was established.

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On the diplomatic front, the United Nations Security Council failed to approve three draft resolutions on chemical weapons attacks in Syria. Russia vetoed a U.S. text, while two Russian-drafted resolutions failed to get a minimum nine votes to pass.

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Moscow opposes any Western strike on its close ally Assad and has vetoed Security Council action on Syria 12 times since the conflict started.

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U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations Nikki Haley told the Security Council that adopting the U.S.-drafted resolution was the least that member nations could do.

“History will record that, on this day, Russia chose protecting a monster over the lives of the Syrian people,” Haley said, referring to Assad. At least 60 people were killed and more than 1,000 injured in Saturday’s suspected chemical weapons attack on the town of Douma, according to a Syrian relief group.

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Doctors and witnesses have said victims showed symptoms of poisoning, possibly by a nerve agent, and reported the smell of chlorine gas.

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Russian U.N. Ambassador Vassily Nebenzia said Washington’s decision to put forward its resolution could be a prelude to a Western strike on Syria.

“I would once again ask you, once again beseech you, to refrain from the plans that you’re currently developing for Syria,” he said after the council failed to approve a third draft resolution on chemical weapons attacks in Syria.

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International chemical weapons experts are expected to go to Douma to investigate the suspected poison gas attack. France and Britain discussed with the Trump administration how to respond to the Douma attack. Both stressed that the culprit still needed to be confirmed.

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The Douma incident has thrust Syria’s conflict back to the forefront of the international stage, pitting Washington and Moscow against each other once again. Trump said that he would make a decision about how to respond within a few days, adding that the United States had “a lot of options militarily” on Syria.

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Assad’s government and Russia have said there was no evidence a gas attack had taken place and that the claim was bogus.

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Any U.S. strike is likely to involve naval assets, given the risk to aircraft from Russian and Syrian air defense systems. A U.S. Navy guided-missile destroyer, the USS Donald Cook, is in the Mediterranean.

A key issue being considered by U.S. defense and intelligence agencies and war planners is the effectiveness of Syrian air defenses and the extent to which Russia is helping to organize, and ultimately, direct Syrian air defense operations, according to two U.S. government sources. Last year, the United States launched strikes from two Navy destroyers against a Syrian air base. U.S. military action similar to last year’s would likely not cause a shift in the direction of the war that has gone Assad’s way since 2015 with massive aid from Iran and Russia.

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There was little expectation that members of Congress would object if Trump launched an attack on Syria, despite some calls for lawmakers to exert their power to authorize military action. Most members of Congress – Democrats as well as his fellow Republicans - praised Trump after the strike last year.

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French President Emmanuel Macron said on Tuesday that any strikes would not target the Syrian government’s allies or anybody in particular, but would be aimed at the Syrian government’s chemical facilities.

The Hague-based Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) said Syria had been asked to make the necessary arrangements for the deployment of an investigation team.

“The team is preparing to deploy to Syria shortly,” it said in a statement. The mission will aim to determine whether banned munitions were used but will not assign blame. The Assad government and Russia both urged the OPCW to investigate the allegations of chemical weapons use in Douma, a move by the two countries that was apparently aimed at averting any U.S.-led action.

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“Syria is keen on cooperating with the OPCW to uncover the truth behind the allegations that some Western sides have been advertising to justify their aggressive intentions,” Syria’s state news agency SANA said.

A European source said European governments were waiting for the OPCW to carry out its investigation and for more solid forensic evidence from the attack to emerge. Any plan by Washington and its allies to take military action was likely to be on hold until then, the source said.

In Syria, thousands of militants and their families arrived in rebel-held parts of the country’s northwest after surrendering Douma to government forces.

Their evacuation restored Assad’s control over eastern Ghouta, formerly the biggest rebel bastion near Damascus, and gave him his biggest battlefield victory since 2016, when he took back Aleppo.

Aggravating the volatile situation in the region, Iran - Assad’s other main ally - threatened to respond to an air strike on a Syrian military base on Monday that Tehran, Damascus and Moscow have blamed on Israel.

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Originally posted by kpo:
To neocons, every geopolitical confrontation is a replay of WWII, and stopping Hitler.

To Kiki and Siggy, every geopolitical confrontation is a replay of Iraq, and our governments lying to us to drumbeat for war.

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To Kiki and Siggy, every geopolitical confrontation is a replay of Iraq

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and our governments lying to us to drumbeat for war.- KRAPO

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
And people's memory, and more important, attention span are ...






... oh look! Shiny!

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
So have any of these questions been answered?

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Is there an apparatus on the ground to identify what gas was used, as nd where it came from, who used it?

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Is this Trump's play to get us into combat?

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If not Trump, does anybody know who, which department?

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Are UK, France part of the play, or just following?

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I'm checking here https://southfront.org/ to get some news.

Also here https://syria.liveuamap.com/ but this map gets refreshed frequently and isn't archived.

The alt media has been warning for at least two months to expect a significant false flag, and probably more than one. It's been their contention that the globalists are desperate to stoke a war because they can use that confusion as an excuse for the coming financial implosion. Just FYI

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Originally posted by captaincrunch:

I really need to get into the AltMedia biz - since everything can be explained pretty convincingly as a "false flag" you don't have to have studied journalism, or care about professional integrity . . .

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
So have any of these questions been answered?

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Not yet

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Is there an apparatus on the ground to identify what gas was used, as nd where it came from, who used it?

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OPCW just arrived. the same day USA, UK, and France struck Syria with missiles. I wonder if this missile strike will create access problems for the investigation team(s).

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Is this Trump's play to get us into combat?

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I think Trump is just reacting to whatever info he was fed,

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If not Trump, does anybody know who, which department?

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Not Mattis, supposedly. Just more neocon/ deep state crap; probably Bolton.

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Are UK, France part of the play, or just following?

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I heard that the UK is leading this particular effort, not just from the air but they have spec ops on the ground in Douma who cooked this thing up. That's what the Russians say, anyway.

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Russian Trolls Denied Syrian Gas Attack—Before It Happened

Weeks before the world saw the bodies presumed bodies of men, women, and children dead from a apparent western-government alleged Syrian military chemical attack in Douma, Syria, the Russian military media was already spreading bizarre reasonable conspiracy theories about an impending “false flag” chemical attack carried out by rebels.

Russian conspiracy propaganda and truther chum sources have been a staple of official media discourse whenever ...

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Originally posted by 1kiki:

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Russian Trolls Denied Syrian Gas Attack—Before It Happened

Weeks before the world saw the bodies presumed bodies of men, women, and children dead from a apparent western-government alleged Syrian military chemical attack in Douma, Syria, the Russian military media was already spreading bizarre reasonable conspiracy theories about an impending “false flag” chemical attack carried out by rebels.

Russian conspiracy propaganda and truther chum sources have been a staple of official media discourse whenever ...

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WOW. Do you really believe the crap you posted, SECOND? It's like turgid bodice-ripper fiction written for people who are extremely gullible, and have no use for evidence in the real world.

If that's the kind of reading you prefer, let me recommend a book. I haven't read it, but the cover makes it look like it's just your style.

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Originally posted by 1kiki:

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
So you post an extended ad that contains ... not one bit of evidence.

Let me ask you this, SECOND. Can you have truth without facts? Can you have facts without evidence?

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Originally posted by captaincrunch:
The "Syrian Rebels" have according to Russia and her defenders, gassed themselves how many times, because why? So they can have the US/UK/France drop a few bombs on... chemical weapons plants? And they based this most recent self-gassing on an event that happened a year ago, when they gassed themselves which produced... a limp wristed slap on an abandoned air field. Makes zero sense.

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Originally posted by captaincrunch:
The "Syrian Rebels" have according to Russia and her defenders, gassed themselves how many times, because why? So they can have the US/UK/France drop a few bombs on... chemical weapons plants? And they based this most recent self-gassing on an event that happened a year ago, when they gassed themselves which produced... a limp wristed slap on an abandoned air field. Makes zero sense.

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Originally posted by second:
This calls for a Firefly story inspired by the chemical attacks. The Alliance, playing the role of the Russians, wishes to cover up the murder of everyone in Haven, playing the role of a Syrian town in revolt against Damascus. The Operative does not want Haven as a news story on the Central Planets. He drops a 2000 pound bomb on Haven’s reactor, which powers the mines and the homes. The reactor does NOT explode in a huge atomic fireball as expected. This ruins the cover story that the people of Haven accidentally killed themselves because they misused their reactor. The evidence of the Haven massacre was NOT obliterated by a so-called reactor accident. This was because prescient River shutdown the Haven reactor before Serenity left for Miranda. As an extra precaution against the Alliance finding another way to destroy evidence that there was a massacre at Haven, River, who was supposed to be collecting corpses for decorating Serenity as a Reaver ship, moved a few children’s bodies into the mines then blew-up the entrance. The bullet-riddled bodies are still there, and one day will be evidence.

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Originally posted by captaincrunch:

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Originally posted by second:
This calls for a Firefly story inspired by the chemical attacks. The Alliance, playing the role of the Russians, wishes to cover up the murder of everyone in Haven, playing the role of a Syrian town in revolt against Damascus. The Operative does not want Haven as a news story on the Central Planets. He drops a 2000 pound bomb on Haven’s reactor, which powers the mines and the homes. The reactor does NOT explode in a huge atomic fireball as expected. This ruins the cover story that the people of Haven accidentally killed themselves because they misused their reactor. The evidence of the Haven massacre was NOT obliterated by a so-called reactor accident. This was because prescient River shutdown the Haven reactor before Serenity left for Miranda. As an extra precaution against the Alliance finding another way to destroy evidence that there was a massacre at Haven, River, who was supposed to be collecting corpses for decorating Serenity as a Reaver ship, moved a few children’s bodies into the mines then blew-up the entrance. The bullet-riddled bodies are still there, and one day will be evidence.

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+2 Damn! I really miss that show!

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Ditto, and I take great pleasure in that Russia did not survive time and make it into the future.

JJ

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Originally posted by JJ:

Ditto, and I take great pleasure in that Russia did not survive time and make it into the future.

JJ

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Originally posted by second:

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Originally posted by JJ:

Ditto, and I take great pleasure in that Russia did not survive time and make it into the future.

JJ

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I see that Putin has made a promise to cause 'chaos' if he does not get his way: Russia's Putin predicts global 'chaos' if West hits Syria again.
www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria/russias-putin-predicts
-global-chaos-if-west-hits-syria-again-idUSKBN1HM0BK

Will Putin keep his promise this time to bring chaos? Or is Putin a lying sack of shit, much like his student Donald Trump? It is hard to tell, but recently Russia promised and did not follow through: Russia will shoot down US missiles fired at Syria and retaliate against launch sites, says ambassador
www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/russia-us-missiles-syria-
launch-sites-lebanon-zasypkin-putin-a8298941.html

It is too late for Russia to shoot down Tomahawk missiles, but there is still time to sink some US ships and destroy US planes. Hurry, Putin! Hurry! It is almost Monday in Syria. And the NYSE will open. Putin could crash the stock-market if he tries.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly]

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The best predictor of Putin is that he will do only what he is allowed to get away with.

JJ

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
"The "Syrian Rebels" have according to Russia and her defenders, gassed themselves how many times, because why?"

They don't gas themselves. They gas civilians.

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
"There is only two place where evidence is taken seriously and neither are the internet. One is trials. The other is science."

So, you're OK with going along with propaganda. Thanks for letting me know where you're coming from. Now I know how seriously to take you, which is not at all.

I'll be scrolling past you from now on.

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"The "Syrian Rebels" have according to Russia and her defenders, gassed themselves how many times, because why?"
They don't gas themselves. They gas civilians. - KIKI

BINGO- SIGNY

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Originally posted by second:

“We are experiencing a dangerous time in our country,” Comey writes, “with a political environment where basic facts are disputed, fundamental truth is questioned, lying is normalized and unethical behavior is ignored, excused or rewarded.”

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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"The "Syrian Rebels" have according to Russia and her defenders, gassed themselves how many times, because why?"
They don't gas themselves. They gas civilians. - KIKI

BINGO- SIGNY

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Edited to add... That's why they're called "terrorists". If someone is willing to saw off human heads with a dull knife, or burn women alive in cages, or serially blow off dozens of human heads with chained explosives ... does anyone think that they would hesitate to gas a few people?

SECOND: I don't give a fuck how you feel. There are more important things going on than your outraged sense of entitlement and your permanent grotch. CLEARLY, you have no interest in truth, no empathy for anyone else, and you have the ethics of a tapeworm. I, too, will be scrolling past your posts from now on.


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Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876]

Yeah, great guys, but we all know the Russians did it.

JJ

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Originally posted by second:

“We are experiencing a dangerous time in our country,” Comey writes, “with a political environment where basic facts are disputed, fundamental truth is questioned, lying is normalized and unethical behavior is ignored, excused or rewarded.”

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Nobody knows what the truth is anymore. The truth has become entirely subjective.

This is from decades of politicians hiding secrets and outright lying to the people, and is exacerbated by 24 hour "News" networks that have gone totally to their equal and opposite fringe sides, leaving most of us wondering just WTF is actually real.
Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Originally posted by 1kiki:

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Originally posted by second:

“We are experiencing a dangerous time in our country,” Comey writes, “with a political environment where basic facts are disputed, fundamental truth is questioned, lying is normalized and unethical behavior is ignored, excused or rewarded.”

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Nobody knows what the truth is anymore. The truth has become entirely subjective.

This is from decades of politicians hiding secrets and outright lying to the people, and is exacerbated by 24 hour "News" networks that have gone totally to their equal and opposite fringe sides, leaving most of us wondering just WTF is actually real.
Do Right, Be Right. :)

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That's why EVIDENCE is so important. And while I don't trust any agency entirely, I trust the OPCW far more than any western government cabal. Because the governments have a known history of lying to us, ESPECIALLY when they want to gin up a war. The OPCW has yet to create a bad history.

I ran across an article in CNN that boggled my mind, but I went past it to look at it later. This was the gist of the topic: syria douma evidence so secret even congress can't see it. Now it's gone. Scrubbed so thoroughly Google doesn't find it.

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
So - to summarize the situation -

Syria Invites OPCW to Investigate Alleged Chemical Attack in Douma
APRIL 10, 2018, 9:58 A.M. E.D.T.
reposted from Reuters
https://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2018/04/10/world/middleeast/10reuters-
mideast-crisis-syria-ghouta-investigation.html

OPCW inspectors head to suspected Syria gas attack site in Douma
Apr 13, 2018
reposted from AP
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2018/04/13/world/opcw-inspectors-hea
d-suspected-syria-gas-attack-site-douma/#.WtPdiXZXais

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/13/world/middleeast/trump-strikes-syri
a-attack.html
APRIL 13, 2018
U.S., Britain and France Strike Syria Over Suspected Chemical Weapons Attack

OPCW Mission Arrives in Damascus to Probe Alleged Douma Chemical Attack
13:55 14.04.2018
https://sputniknews.com/world/201804141063554885-opcw-syria-douma-chem
ical-weapons-probe/

OPCW inspectors set to investigate site of Douma chemical attack
Sun 15 Apr 2018 12.49 EDT
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/apr/15/opcw-inspectors-set-to-i
nvestigate-site-of-douma-chemical-attack

Fortunately, it looks like the OPCW team in Syria is made of sterner stuff than Hans Blix in Iraq, and the team will be at work in Douma, despite US bombing.


So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
"The "Syrian Rebels" have according to Russia and her defenders, gassed themselves how many times, because why?"

They don't gas themselves. They gas civilians.

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BINGO

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
kpo

AND THEN there's the US State Department warning about ISIS and affiliated groups using chemical weapons.

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